S02.E04: The Fury Of Firestorm

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Barry and the team look for another Firestorm match for Dr. Stein. When the team meets Jefferson "Jax” Jackson, Caitlin has her reservations about whether Jax is the right match for Dr. Stein. Iris surprises Joe while Barry and Patty grow closer.

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic10Mpsxd2c

[CabotCove]

Great episode title! Did not expect that.

Looks very firestorm mythology centric, excited for this episode.

Edited October 21, 2015 by WildcardC

[Jediknight]

King Shark!  So next time we see the Suicide Squad, they should have a new member.

 

So Wally's going to be Iris' brother instead of nephew, because I can't see them throwing in the revelation that Iris has a brother without it being Wally.  That means the only Flash we'd be missing is Bart.

 

I enjoyed this episode, we got King Shark, Harrison as a good guy, Jax was good, Caitlin saw she was wrong about Jax and that she was a bitca, and I like Patty.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Chip
comic book spoilers

[Marie F.]

I like the way that Iris handled the situation with her mother and loved all her scenes with Joe.  Francine is deeply selfish—coming back after so long. It’s self-serving, all about what she wants, not what Iris needs. Iris needed her for years. Would she have come back if she wasn’t dying? Nope. And I like that Iris investigated her and found out that she had a baby. I guess she’s wondering now if the baby is still alive, if Joe is the father, if he was given up for adoption or Francine raised him.  Seriously, if Francine stuck around and raised the baby but didn’t stick around for Iris and kept her brother/half-brother a secret for twenty years…

 

Yes, Tina McGee is back!  I wish she would stick around. She could be useful and I guess I missed that Caitlin was working for her? People are always saying that the show needs more women, but they’re only talking about women in Iris/Caitlin/Linda’s group.  I love Iris, rarely like Caitlin, don't know enough about Linda, and don’t care about Patty enough to hate her. I will say this about Patty, though, her and Barry’s scenes have calmed down a little.  They don’t seem like they need Ritalin anymore or like they're high/drunk on something.  Still don’t care about her or them together.

 

I liked Jax and his interactions with Stein. I even liked that Hewitt guy. They could have kept him around for a while and turned him into a bigger problem for the team. I wasn’t really happy with Barry stealing their blood, but at least he acknowledged that it was wrong. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by Marie F.

[AyChihuahua]

That was really cheesy.

 

The woman playing Iris's mom is a truly terrible actress.

[XtremeOne1]

Patty is just so cute and adorable she can't even lie! She's such a real person! *eye roll*...I hate this type of female character, one that writers put out there to appease a those who can't handle any female who dares to show any sort of complexity. "Oh she's sad. BUZZ KILL!" "Oh she lies! Selfish!" "Oh she wants something from Barry. THE WORST!" "Oh she isn't supportive. HORRIBLE HUMAN!".....It's incredibly problematic. The quirky, cute girl who is so perfect isn't a human. It's a television character made from a test group on what a dream of a female character is. And yeah, it's only been three episodes of her but so far all I see is "male fantasy"

 

I don't know. I know some like her, so I feel bad saying this...But to me, it's just kind of clear. Iris and Caitlin don't fit into that line, so they need to create one who does. 

 

This doesn't happen for male characters. It's sad it happens for female characters. 

 

Jay is a pretty awful actor, so that's not a good sign for Legends of Tomorrow(we've already got the hamminess of the Prison Break Bros)....

 

But hey I thought the Iris stuff was strong this episode and sets up a nice storyline for her(because obviously Eddie stuff has been discarded)...She'll definitely be looking into her half brother but what does she do about Joe because she's right, the type of guy Joe is, this news will be rip him too shreds. But how long can she keep this?

 

And her brother is definitely Wally! I'm a little worried he'll be "angry guy!" like Roy...and look what happened with his character....But hopefully he's immature, fun Wally(which sadly means no Bart)...but that's the Wally I want. And hopefully he doesn't become ummm Impulse(because a 20 year old Kid Flash won't work) until like season 3.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Chip
comic book spoilers

[bettername2come]

I loved Harrison's scenes tonight. Such a creepy reveal of him following Cisco through Star Labs. Thought it was going to be Cisco saving Barry due to a vision, so I was pleasantly surprised to see Wells. He's more attractive when he's not so shady.

I like Jax. Looking forward to seeing him on Legends.

I may have laughed maniacally at the prospect of Iris lying to Joe about his son.

[nksarmi]

Iris' burden of figuring out this stuff with her brother and what it means for Joe could actually be a pretty good story.  I hope it goes well and I'm looking forward to meeting Wally if that's where they are going with this.

 

I'm not really feeling Patty but she's not awful I guess.

 

I'm going to miss Stein but onwards to LoT Professor!

[Jenesis]

I'm going to need Barry to stop flirting (where was that?) with Patty and go comfort his best friend who was there when he lost both his parents. His best friend who was alone and crying while Joe was encouraging Barry to try something new, even though Iris is now free....

 

I just don't get it.

 

Anyway, I really liked Jax. And I like Jax and Stein together as Firestorm. That other scientist guy, well, it seems you should have a full psychological review before being considered for superpowers. Man was just crazy as hell.

 

Where was Clarissa? Stein was just about to burn down death's door and no one calls her in?

 

At least Joe lied to Barry and it wasn't Iris this week. In fact, Iris gets to keep some secrets. Speaking of which, we should be seeing Wally soon.

 

Go away Patty.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Jenesis

[XtremeOne1]

I'm going to need Barry to stop flirting (where was that?) with Patty and go comfort his best friend who was there when he lost both his parents. His best friend who was alone and crying while Joe was encouraging Barry to try something new, even though Iris is now free....

 

I just don't get it.

 

 

 

THat's a fair point....We couldn't get rid of one of the awkward flirting scenes for a scene of Barry and Iris talking about her mom? 

 

This is why a character like Patty isn't the smartest thing to introduce right at this moment...Instead of focusing on character relationships(Barry/Iris, for example), or repercussions from last (Iris/Eddie, Caitlin/Ronnie(only when it's convenient to the plot of someone else's story), Cisco/his powers, the Wells-less team) we're focusing on new relationships, new plots, a new show....

[miracole]

Barry and Joe are jerks. King Shark was awesome.

[Oscirus]

I'm just going to go ahead and ignore the Iris stuff. If the writers can't be bothered to care about her then I won't either.

 

Jax could be a fun edition to the gang. I like that we have somebody who's not a nerd. It's weird that Caitlin has more chemistry with Jax then she does with Barry or Jay.

 

Would it hurt Barry for him to use his vibrato voice in costume? Yes, I realize that Iris knows but there are other people who know what you sound like out of costume.

 

I love that the scientists at the lab have just said screw it and are now taking blood/ performing experiments without getting permission/ exploring the ramifications of their actions.

 

Did Barry just say that they're keeping that scientist in the pipeline until they're sure he will keep his mouth shut?

 

Nice Wells reveal at the end. It'll be interesting to see how he integrates with the team.

 

So let me get this straight:

Iris dates Joe's partner: How dare you do such a thing, do you know how that makes me feel?

Barry wants to date Joe's partner: Go right ahead :)

 

What's with their changing the music whenever Patty happens on the scene? Are they trying to go for a romcom feel or what?

 

 

[benteen]

I enjoyed the Firestorm storyline (thought it’s ridiculous that Barry basically informed both of them of his secret identity before seeing if the process even worked) and the villain.  King Shark (that was actually a character) was pretty cool and I didn’t expect him like that at the end.  Harrison Wells made an awesome return and good to see Tina McGhee again.

 

I have freaking had it though with the West family drama.  The worst part of last season that they decided to double down on.  Joe stops lying to his daughter and now is lying to Barry.  Sociopath.

 

Also, I call bullshit that Jefferson couldn’t go to college.  If he had a 4.0 GPA, he would have gotten a scholarship.  Use some logic show (not something the writers use much).

Edited October 28, 2015 by benteen

[Ruby25]

I liked the episode.

 

Still don't think the Patty stuff is necessary at all. I think you know a show isn't confident in a couple's chemistry when they play jangly music whenever they're in a scene together to tell you how you're supposed to feel about this scene.

 

I think we know who Iris's brother will turn out to be, but I am surprised they're going to give Joe another son.

[thuganomics85]

Really feel bad that I didn't see the King Shark reveal coming.  After Grodd, I should have known that, yes, this show would totally go there.  Nothing is off the table hear, folks!

 

At least Joe had decided to quit lying to Iris, and now is keeping secrets from Barry.  He really is part of the family now!  Of course, he already knows that Harrison Wells 2.0. is here, so I can't wait to see Joe explained this.  Meanwhile, Iris finds out from her mom (who is dying, of course), that she had another son, who is probably's Joe, and now Iris is going to keep that from him.  Normally, I wouldn't like that, but considering everything Joe has done, then I'm kind of getting a kick out of Iris doing this.  Like father, like daughter!  And, yeah, I think I know who this other son is going to end up being.

 

Firestorm two is complete, now with Jax instead of Ronnie (but still has it's dose of Victor Garber, and that's what is really important!)  The actor didn't wow me, but he had his moments.  My biggest takeaway was that Caitlin apparently is one hell of a snob.  At first, it really felt like she basically didn't think some "lowly" mechanic, would be worthy of linking with Stein or something, which I understand the logic on some levels, but not enough for her to be that against it.  Not every superhero is a scientist, Caitlin!

 

They are continuing to try way too hard with Patty.  And when Barry start listing all the reasons he liked her, it just basically made me go "So, she's basically you, but a woman."  Because that's what I fell like she is: a female Barry.

 

Cisco should heed Stein's advice and start telling everyone about his vibes!

 

Always good to see Tina McGee.

 

Finally, Harrison from Earth 2 is here and.... he might be good?!  Well, kinda.  I mean, he's still acting a bit shady, but he just took out King Shark, that's worthy of at least a conversation.

[Sakura12]

I'm not really sure Barry needed a love interest this season. I think they just wanted her to do that comic Flash scene with Jay. 

 

I'm glad Iris got some more screen time but they are isolating her again from the main story and that's the mistake they made on that other show. And really show, you made Iris's mother dying and gave her a secret son. I guess secret keeping and lying runs in the West Family. They also better have made it where Francine got sucked up into Earth 2 and that's why she never made contact until now. 

 

Jax was okay, he'll make a nice addition to LoT which I'm really looking forward now after seeing the BTS pics. 

 

The land shark was stupid, Buffy did it better. 

[Ruby25]

Yeah, the land shark was kind of ridiculous.

 

And they're still using the pipeline? God, that pipeline really bothers me- there's nobody running it, and if you run a prison you are responsible for taking care of the people you put in there. I wish they could get rid of that and just have an actual metahuman prison that Central City runs.

 

The Iris story being isolated doesn't bother me so much right now, simply because we know what the story is, and we know that that WILL become important and eventually include everyone, so I think that's actually pretty decent for her. I just think once the Patty stuff is over and they feel like Barry has enough "experience" (eyeroll) so that they can just have him and Iris be together, she'll be totally integrated into everything all the time, probably. When Barry has a separate love interest it becomes harder not to shove Iris aside a little (for the writers apparently, since they didn't give her a function that would be useful inside Star Labs all the time).

Edited October 28, 2015 by Ruby25

[Actionmage]

See, Francine, all this lying is ... y'know what? It isn't even half on Francine. All Iris has known is lies from Joe. Lies of omission and "to protect" her and the woman is apologizing for "trying to make him the bad guy"? Wev. We don't know if Francine's son is Joe's because Iris interrupted and did not let her mother finish the explanation.  I like Iris, so hearing  that the newly-minted, front-page story-making reporter "wouldn't know if you [Francine] were lying"? Because you have no way to check facts on that son you dug up okay. You are unable to do simple math? You are unable to figure out some way of getting around sealed files at the rehab center your mom was in last and see who actually did visit her? I get that Iris is supposed to be in a very emotional, angry, distrustful place, but the words that Iris speaks aren't exactly adding up, imo.  It's... tiresome, the lazy writing.

 

I was, on the other hand, delightedly surprised at King Shark! The narration going on blithely as that great, webbed claw shot out behind Barry was awesome! I did like that Patty knew she was underpowered compared to the meta, but did her thing. Emptied the whole blamed magazine and bought Barry some time, even though it wasn't Barry who ended up taking KS down. Tonight, Patty earned my respect for her dedication to The Job. I still think she isn't horrible, but as others have noted, she wasn't needed as a narrative device/ new character. The actress is fine, but I hate that Joe is thinking yet another partner needs to lie.  STFU, Joe.

 

Caitlin needs to check her classism. If there are initials after someone's name, she is blind/deaf/mute about any possibility of flaws or problems. It is probably why there wasn't a cursory check to see if Doc Hewitt had a police record. Cisco was able to do the usual tech magic and find out about Hewitt's unsavory side. Jax never got to a college so he wasn't worth her time. No explanation, no nuthin'; Jax could get lost in a spacetime rift and she'd have cared less. I can see where seeds of Killer Frost lie, but I don't want our Caitlin to become her.

 

Jax and Hewitt were great. Then again, I've crushed on Demore Barnes watching The Unit. Jax was obviously the match, imo, because Ronnie was the more physical of the two men, so athlete Jax was duh-obvious to me. ( Don't get me wrong- I would love to see more Demore Barnes on my TV!)  Two nights in a row I get to see folks step up and claim their powers in order to help others. I hope Jax gets to meet Clarissa. I also hope Jax got to say goodbye to his family/mom.

 

While I watch it, the episode is exciting. Then things like Joe just getting on with yet another stinkin' lie or Barry half-chuckling about keeping Hewitt in The Pipeline until he "decides" to not talk about what has happened?! I hope I can make it to midseason.

 

added: was that a writers' joke? Making a Jax and Hewitt (Jackson-Hewitt) joke?

Edited October 28, 2015 by Actionmage

[blugirlami21]

I thought the episode was ok. I liked that Joe told Iris the truth and I loved how fold and straightforward Iris was with her mother. Who sucks btw. How did she think she sounded when she said she wanted back in Iris' life because she was sick. What about all the other years of her daughters life?

Joe not telling Barry abour Wells didn't bother me because of how Barry acts whenever he is mentioned and because of how he acted in the first episode. He obbiopsy knows now but I don't think he'll be too mad at Joe.

As for Patty, she still bugs me. She's done nothing to prove the need for her existence on this show. She's eating up Barry/Iris screen time. Barry should have been helping Iris and Joe with Francine not being geeky with Patty.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention but why was that other meta human do butthurt? It didn't work out but it wasn't anyone's fault. I wanted to punch Caitlin for over sharing even though I knew it was mostly about Ronnie. Nothing against the new firestorm but I miss Ronnie. That might be my crush on the actor talking but I hope because there was no body that there's a chance he's still alive.

Did I miss where Jay was? I thought he was going to stick around a little longer?

[Lady Calypso]

I didn't actually like the episode much, though I liked a couple of the moments.

 

I liked Jax, for the most part. I didn't like the cliched writing, but I liked Jax as a character. Caitlin has been horribly written thus far, but her scene with Jax was well done. 

 

I like that Iris is getting a storyline, but she still needs more of a voice (more so than Joe), and she needs to be part of the team. But hey, they're taking baby steps. And Candice Patton is an infinite better actress than this Vanessa Williams (and apparently not the Vanessa Williams I am familiar with). Damn, can this woman not act! 

 

Bye Professor Stein and Jax! We'll see you in the spinoff!

 

I seriously need Barry/Iris scenes. Why must they insist on not giving us more than one scene with them per episode? They're supposed to be best friends! And yet, we get more Patty/Barry scenes. Again, I get it; they're both meant to be or whatever. Barry's going to probably lose his virginity to Patty before she's either killed off or disappears. Hey, maybe she becomes evil! I was also annoyed by the voiceover and how they focused on 'family' for Iris and 'love' for Patty. Again, anvils have been dropped. Why don't we skip the drawing out and have them just do it already? 

 

Speaking of drawing things out, I'd like to see more of Harrison Wells and why he's there, instead of waiting a bazillion episodes to find this out. I don't think the show either has figured out, at this point, how to incorporate him, or they can't find time to fit him in the episodes but feel the need to have him appear for a couple of minutes each episode so we know that he's still a regular and gonna be back. But that scene where he just up and shoots Land Shark Guy was pretty hilarious.

 

Overall, the lying in this episode from several characters was pretty annoying, and a lot of the writing was pretty clunky, so I didn't like the episode much. But the introduction of Jax was good (and I liked him and Stein), and Wells' appearances were good, as well as Iris getting a little to do while getting to lie to her dad for once. But Joe better not hate Iris when the truth comes out.

[CabotCove]

Jax got a nice voice on him and I like his snark. 

Will miss Dr Stein and his relationship with Cisco/Caitlin. 

Yup Wally is so Iris's brother, not very smart  for Francine to hold back another secret from the family. 

I like Patty when she is doing her action cop thing, her nerdy schitck is irritating. 

Cisco is MVP of episode. 

I will be disappointed if  the Shark is dead. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by WildcardC

[quarks]

I feel it's a little too early to introduce a talking shark into this show. I didn't want anyone to jump over him yet!

 

Good things:

 

1. Really liked Iris in this episode - especially when she trusted her instincts and not her father's, and went and researched her deadbeat mother. You go, Iris. Also, nice use of her profession there.

 

2. Ok, the shark was ridiculous, but I laughed. I kinda hope he's still alive.

 

3. Yay, Dr. McGee is back!

 

4. Harrison Wells, sneaky no matter what Earth he's from. I don't trust this Harrison Wells either, but I'm glad to see him back.

 

5. And aww, there's a chance Cisco might listen to Stein and accept his powers and become a superhero himself.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Stein is dying and nobody bothers to call his wife or get her opinion on things and what she thinks of having her husband merge into yet another guy? I know you're trying not to pay day players/guest stars for budget reasons, show, but in that case, why give Stein a wife at all? He could have been single.

 

2. Not really feeling the dynamic between Stein and the former football player yet, though I guess that's now a Legends problem. Also, yes, the entire episode was filled with snobbery and elitism, so can I just mention that a lot of car mechanics make pretty decent money and that it's a perfectly respectable job? 

 

3.  This is not entirely the fault of Flash, but since Berlanti is running all four shows, can I note that perky, happy blonde Kara and perky, happy, blonde Patterson on Monday, perky, happy, blonde Patty on Tuesday, and perky, happy, blonde Felicity on Wednesday may be just a bit too much for viewers who might want to watch all four shows?  At least Patterson's just a supporting character, and Kara and Felicity have already shown some distinctive character traits.

 

4. Last week, we absolutely, positively, needed Jay Garrick to give up his home and saving people back on Earth-2, and this week he's....nowhere to be found. Well. Clearly that was important.

 

5. As said, I liked Iris in this episode, but wow, was she sidelined again.

 

Bad things:

 

1. Wow. Really not liking Iris' mother at all.  I don't think it helps that the actress's line delivery isn't always convincing, especially given that they're putting her against Jesse Martin and Candace Patton, but apart from that, I'm really expected to believe that you care about your daughter at all after a) not bothering to get in touch with her for decades despite apparently being sober for at least the past few months, b) not showing up when your daughter lost her fiance, c) not bothering to tell your ex the real reason you want this family reunion, d) lying about this possible son, e) making absolutely no effort to run after Candace.

 

2. Joe, stop asking your partners to lie for you. Especially stop asking your partners to lie for you about the possible return of Harrison Wells, who last we checked engineered a lab explosion that gave superpowers to a number of criminals throughout the city in between bouts of casually murdering people. 

[cynic]

Don't get me wrong- I would love to see more Demore Barnes on my TV

...

Check out 12 Monkeys on SyFy if you can find it (the first season ended a few months ago). He has a supporting role in that and the show itself is great.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Huge yawn, this episode. I was doing a lot of eye rolling, with the way everyone just assumed either Hewitt or Jax would be willing at a moment's thought to merge with Stein and then Caitlin ripping into Jax because it freaked him out and he wasn't interested. And let's show these two where everything is and who everyone is.

 

So, in the space of one episode, Patty is suddenly not only a detective, but also Joe's partner? Was it written somewhere that she had to be his partner to be on the task force?

 

And color me stupid,because I totally thought Iris's half brother would be Wally's father, because you know, Wally is Iris's nephew.  But then again, I'm unfamiliar with the changes that the New 52 did, but I thought Wally was erased out of existence. And I hated that because Wally is my favorite Flash.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Chip
comic book spoilers

[futurechemist]

I'm not convinced Wells 2 is a hero.  It'd be pretty diabolical to kill 1 of his minions just to trick the group into trusting him.

 

I'm also eagerly awaiting an appearance by Arnold Schwarzenegger as Mr. Freeze to cure Iris's mom's MacGregor's syndrome.  Complete with his army of puns and 1-liners.  A guy can hope...

[Racj82]

Patty is just so cute and adorable she can't even lie! She's such a real person! *eye roll*...I hate this type of female character, one that writers put out there to appease a those who can't handle any female who dares to show any sort of complexity. "Oh she's sad. BUZZ KILL!" "Oh she lies! Selfish!" "Oh she wants something from Barry. THE WORST!" "Oh she isn't supportive. HORRIBLE HUMAN!".....It's incredibly problematic. The quirky, cute girl who is so perfect isn't a human. It's a television character made from a test group on what a dream of a female character is. And yeah, it's only been three episodes of her but so far all I see is "male fantasy"

I don't know. I know some like her, so I feel bad saying this...But to me, it's just kind of clear. Iris and Caitlin don't fit into that line, so they need to create one who does.

This doesn't happen for male characters. It's sad it happens for female characters.

Jay is a pretty awful actor, so that's not a good sign for Legends of Tomorrow(we've already got the hamminess of the Prison Break Bros)....

But hey I thought the Iris stuff was strong this episode and sets up a nice storyline for her(because obviously Eddie stuff has been discarded)...She'll definitely be looking into her half brother but what does she do about Joe because she's right, the type of guy Joe is, this news will be rip him too shreds. But how long can she keep this?

And her brother is definitely Wally! I'm a little worried he'll be "angry guy!" like Roy...and look what happened with his character....But hopefully he's immature, fun Wally(which sadly means no Bart)...but that's the Wally I want. And hopefully he doesn't become ummm Impulse(because a 20 year old Kid Flash won't work) until like season 3.

As someone pointed out she is basically female Barry. Which means they already have a male character on the show that exudes the same characteristics. They are not try to do a stereotypical female character. They are making character that matches up with Barry. My issue is that it is never a good thing to have a romantic pairing on a show that mirror each other.

If there is one place I feel the show has failed, I think it's giving me romantic pairings I care about. They haven't nailed that yet.

Huge yawn, this episode. I was doing a lot of eye rolling, with the way everyone just assumed either Hewitt or Jax would be willing at a moment's thought to merge with Stein and then Caitlin ripping into Jax because it freaked him out and he wasn't interested. And let's show these two where everything is and who everyone is.

So, in the space of one episode, Patty is suddenly not only a detective, but also Joe's partner? Was it written somewhere that she had to be his partner to be on the task force?

And color me stupid, because I totally thought Iris's half brother would be Wally's father, because you know, Wally is Iris's nephew. But then again, I'm unfamiliar with the changes that the New 52 did, but I thought Wally was erased out of existence. And I hated that because Wally is my favorite Flash.

The reason why she came to Joe was to be his partner. They went through this already. By the end of her first episode Joe agreed to have her be his partner on the metahuman task force.

On the Joe front, until he actually had concrete proof that Wells is back, he should keep it to himself. No need to get Barry riled up over false info.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Chip
comic book spoilers

[Lantern7]

So . . . there I was, ready to go to sleep after absorbing the Mets' 14-inning loss against the Royals. I checked AVClub and saw that the latest episode I DVRed got a grade of C-plus. I go to Comic Book Resources and I see this headline: "

Just Debuted On 'The Flash' - And It Was Glorious." Like a glutton for TV, I went downstairs to watch the episode, because I don't have a life.

 

I should have gone to bed.

 

I mean, nice that we have a new Firestorm in Jefferson Jackson, we might have a potential Deathstorm in the guy "rejected" by Prof. Stein, and there's the possibility of a Wally West coming into existence. But between Francine's drama and the show hellbent on shoving Batty (Barry/Patty) down our throats, I think I agree with AVClub this week. Also: King Shark? Really?!? He's not a canon Flash villain. I can buy Grodd on many levels, but a lumbering humanoid shark? And he gets put down by the Earth-2 Harrison Wells. Looks like Hewitt is going to have a new friend to play with in the Pipeline.

 

And yeah . .. the Pipeline is still a thing. Wasn't Iron Heights getting a new wing to house metahumans, so that the STAR Labs gang wouldn't inter villains without a trial? This show gives me fewer headaches and heartbreak than Arrow, but they're both present.

[driedfruit]

Apparently Caitlin is a classist. Makes sense how she and Iris didn't hit it off last season, she probably didn't think very highly of a mere barista turned blogger. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

4. Last week, we absolutely, positively, needed Jay Garrick to give up his home and saving people back on Earth-2, and this week he's....nowhere to be found. Well. Clearly that was important.

 

That was just strange that he just up and disappeared, but we know that he didn't go home to Earth 2.  I figured he would still be working on the portal down in the basement of Star Labs now that he has stabilized it, but nope.

 

Maybe he's working as a barista at CC Jitters to kill time until the Team Flash figures out a way to get him home.

[XtremeOne1]

So what Caitlin is a bit of a snob? It's a character flaw. Characters are SUPPOSED to have those. We're acting like Caitlin being a snob makes her some awful human. This is why we get characters like Patty....

 

Plus, there was a lot of emotion in it for Caitlin. She saw someone accomplished and thought, "sure that person has what it takes to carry my husband's legacy because look at all the effort he put into his career"....

[benteen]

Totally agree about Joe asking his partner to lie.  He is a sociopath when it comes to his need to do so and it's clear his ex-wife and daughter are also sociopathic liars.  The whole West family drama is a drag on the season so far and I wish they'd get rid of it.

 

Joe not telling Barry what he heard...I'm of two minds for that.  I agree that Barry needed to keep his attention on helping Stein and Barry would have become completely fixated on it.  And Joe is right, there should be no way that Wells is still alive (although people still remember a man who never existed, strange).  But he knows about Earth-2 and he knows that Wells was clever and dangerous.  Barry would need to know about that potential threat.

 

I liked Patty during her first appearance but the perky attitude got on my nerves here.

[quarks]

That was just strange that he just up and disappeared, but we know that he didn't go home to Earth 2.  I figured he would still be working on the portal down in the basement of Star Labs now that he has stabilized it, but nope.

 

Maybe he's working as a barista at CC Jitters to kill time until the Team Flash figures out a way to get him home.

 

Oh, I know he didn't go home yet, but given that they took the risk of keeping that portal open, I was surprised not to see a single glimpse of him in this episode, even if it was focused on getting Legends lost. Not quite as bad as leaving poor Stein's wife out of an episode where he was dying, but still odd.

[Primetimer]

The S.T.A.R. crew races to find another Firestorm partner for Stein.

Read the story

[Potanical Pardon]

Patty reminds me more of comic!Iris way more than Iris does.

 

I'm pretty bothered by Hewitt being allowed in on Barry = Flash so casually. I mean, possibly he doesn't know? But that costume was right there in the middle of the room when he was undergoing testing. And even if he didn't know then, he would definitely have figured it out by the time of his insta-stoopiding once becoming a villain. Jackson Jefferson didn't even get allowed to know anything Flash-related until that fight, I guess.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Potanical Pardon

[Advance35]

Apparently Caitlin is a classist. Makes sense how she and Iris didn't hit it off last season, she probably didn't think very highly of a mere barista turned blogger.

 

I actually really liked that about Caitlin.  She seems the most sheltered in a sense of the Star Labs crew.   I could see her having a tunnel vision view about success and fullfilment.  I thought Dr. Wells frequently came off the same way.   I think it's an interesting dimension to give the character.

 

And I honestly don't think it meshes, in terms of Iris and Caitlin being friends, I think it would feel forced.   There wouldn't/shouldn't be any catfights since they are on the same side but both characters in relation to each other strike me as being more "friendly" then "friends".

 

Jax wasn't the best actor, but maybe he'll grow into the role, he was serviceable for the most part and I thought he developed a nice rapport with Caitlin.

 

Looking forward to how things proceed with Cisco, I'm hoping he confides in Caitlin, since I adore their friendship so much.

 

Interested in how things will develop with Alt!Wells and Barry.

 

Iris and her mother drama bored the hell out of me.....as usual.

[DavidJSnyder]

.. we might have a potential Deathstorm in the guy "rejected" by Prof. Stein,

In Firestorm comics, Henry Hewitt is "Tokamak", which is why Cisco ends up using the word that word when they're figuring out how to contain him.

[Gregg247]

This was the first time that I actually liked Iris.  She was calm, cool, and collected when she told her mom exactly how she felt early on.  Then, when Joe told her about the illness, she put on her reporter hat and did some actual investigating and figured out what was going on.  Nice job!

 

On the other hand, I felt like they wasted our time with yet ANOTHER Firestorm origin episode.  We just got this character last season, but now they're already rebooting him?!?  Why do all this?  I think the guy who played Ronnie was a terrible actor, but why not just recast him, rather than kill him off and go to all the trouble of bringing in another character?  There are a lot better stories for this show to explore than Firestorm's (many) issues.

[benteen]

Patty reminds me more of comic!Iris way more than Iris does.

 

I'm pretty bothered by Hewitt being allowed in on Barry = Flash so casually. I mean, possibly he doesn't know? But that costume was right there in the middle of the room when he was undergoing testing. And even if he didn't know then, he would definitely have figured it out by the time of his insta-stoopiding once becoming a villain. Jackson Jefferson didn't even get allowed to know anything Flash-related until that fight, I guess.

 

Yeah, it's a miracle that Barry and his friends haven't all been murdered in their sleep considering how intentionally reckless they are with Barry's identity.  You had Joe calling Barry by his first name when he was on patrol with him last season, you have Cisco always calling him Barry over communications when they know a villain is listening and stuff like last night.  Barry doesn't even bother to alter his voice anymore.  Ridiculous.

 

Speaking of which...Jefferson couldn't play football so he couldn't go to college.  But he had a 4.0 GPA, which, show, would have gotten him a scholarship somewhere.  Don't be lazy, show.

[bmoore4026]

Jefferson "Jax" Jackson...isn't he from Mortal Kombat?  What's he doing on The Flash?

[Jack Kerouac]

Was it just me, or was the Star Labs crew talking to Hewitt right IN FRONT OF THE FLASH suit? Did Hewitt not take a look to his right and think, 'Hey, I wonder why the Flash suit is right there? That Barry guy is about the right size ..."

[arjumand]

So . . . there I was, ready to go to sleep after absorbing the Mets' 14-inning loss against the Royals. I checked AVClub and saw that the latest episode I DVRed got a grade of C-plus. I go to Comic Book Resources and I see this headline: "

Just Debuted On 'The Flash' - And It Was Glorious." Like a glutton for TV, I went downstairs to watch the episode, because I don't have a life.

 

I should have gone to bed.

 

I mean, nice that we have a new Firestorm in Jefferson Jackson, we might have a potential Deathstorm in the guy "rejected" by Prof. Stein, and there's the possibility of a Wally West coming into existence. But between Francine's drama and the show hellbent on shoving Batty (Barry/Patty) down our throats, I think I agree with AVClub this week. Also: King Shark? Really?!? He's not a canon Flash villain. I can buy Grodd on many levels, but a lumbering humanoid shark? And he gets put down by the Earth-2 Harrison Wells. Looks like Hewitt is going to have a new friend to play with in the Pipeline.

 

And yeah . .. the Pipeline is still a thing. Wasn't Iron Heights getting a new wing to house metahumans, so that the STAR Labs gang wouldn't inter villains without a trial? This show gives me fewer headaches and heartbreak than Arrow, but they're both present.

 

Yes. To everything.

This episode reminded me why I got bored with Flash last season - particularly all the Francine drama which I fast-forwarded through. I mean, I honestly and sincerely do not care. I want Iris to have storylines to do with the Flash, and team Flash - if I wanted druggie mom who's not really dead but now dying I'd watch a soap.

And seriously, Perky Patty? I have no fucks to give about her. I mean, she's ok on the screen, I guess, though her theme tune has become irritating. But I don't know the point of her, and if it's just Barry's new squeeze, that's not good.

[Sakura12]

On the other hand, I felt like they wasted our time with yet ANOTHER Firestorm origin episode.  We just got this character last season, but now they're already rebooting him?!?  Why do all this?  I think the guy who played Ronnie was a terrible actor, but why not just recast him, rather than kill him off and go to all the trouble of bringing in another character?  There are a lot better stories for this show to explore than Firestorm's (many) issues.

 

It's the actor that wanted to leave to go be a movie star or something. They didn't have much of a choice since they didn't lock him down in a contract. And Firestorm is moving to Legends of Tomorrow so they needed the other half for that to happen. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

The reason why she came to Joe was to be his partner. They went through this already. By the end of her first episode Joe agreed to have her be his partner on the metahuman task force.

I watched that episode, and the reason she came to him was so she could be on the task force, not his partner.  And this may be nitpicking, but since when does Joe decide who is going to be his partner or who can be made into a detective after a week or however many days passed since Patty showed up? He's just a detective; he's not a Sergeant, Lieutenant, or Captain. Plus, as far as I know, a cop has to take an exam in order to become a detective. Or should I just assume this show can't be bothered with doing this kind of stuff? If the plan was for her to be his partner and also be on the task force, then she should have been a detective from the get go. I've never heard of a cadet being partners with a seasoned detective. Or rather, have never seen it, either.

[VCRTracking]

If I didn't already know King Shark was a character from DC Comics I would have gone "WTF?!" when he showed up!

[david gideon]

I never read DC comics but watched this show because I liked the original version that aired last century. So I don't know much about "Firestorm" etc and have to say that it seems like the dumbest idea ever for a superhero and I can't wait for the spinoff in the hopes that I will never have to see either of his two "parts" again.

 

But I did like the shark.

[Marie F.]

This episode reminded me why I got bored with Flash last season - particularly all the Francine drama which I fast-forwarded through. I mean, I honestly and sincerely do not care. I want Iris to have storylines to do with the Flash, and team Flash - if I wanted druggie mom who's not really dead but now dying I'd watch a soap.

And seriously, Perky Patty? I have no fucks to give about her. I mean, she's ok on the screen, I guess, though her theme tune has become irritating. But I don't know the point of her, and if it's just Barry's new squeeze, that's not good.

I expected more from Mama West. I'm disappointed that she's a drug addict (or a recovering one). When I heard they were bringing her on board with Wally, I assumed he would be her son and came up with all these scenarios in my head. I thought maybe Wells/Thawne or another time-traveler had something to do with her disappearance--like Thawne went back in time to kill Barry but also went back in time to eliminate Wally before he was born. Of course, Francine somehow survived and fled/went into hiding only to return 20 years later now that she's heard of The Flash from Iris's blog because she wants his help to keep her son safe (or teach her son about his powers assuming Wally has any)... 

 

I just thought the story behind her disappearance would be bigger than it is.  At any rate, I'm just sitting back and enjoying Iris and Joe's performances because they're really selling it.  As far as being better integrated into Team Flash, they could show her getting tips about possible metahumans from her blog (if she still has it) and taking her info to Team Flash, sticking around to see how they capture the bad guy, then going off to write about it for work. It's not hard to think of ways to integrate her; I think it's intentional because there seems to be a big effort to keep her and Barry out of scenes together (maybe to calm all the shippers down and give Barry and Betty some breathing room?).

[maczero]

KING MUTHAFUCKIN' SHARK!!!!

 

Now there's a character I never thought I'd see in live action show.  He looked pretty good too.  Slightly pissed off yet impressed that he got taken out by Wells so quickly.  Still it's probably for the best.  Probably cost a fortune to get him to do much more than stand there.  

 

Oh and Barry seriously needs to improve his peripheral vision.  How does a twelve foot tall shark man sneak up on you?

I like the way that Iris handled the situation with her mother and loved all her scenes with Joe.  Francine is deeply selfish—coming back after so long. It’s self-serving, all about what she wants, not what Iris needs. Iris needed her for years. Would she have come back if she wasn’t dying? Nope. And I like that Iris investigated her and found out that she had a baby. I guess she’s wondering now if the baby is still alive, if Joe is the father, if he was given up for adoption or Francine raised him.  Seriously, if Francine stuck around and raised the baby but didn’t stick around for Iris and kept her brother/half-brother a secret for twenty years…

I wasn’t really happy with Barry stealing their blood, but at least he acknowledged that it was wrong. 

 

Did Barry just say that they're keeping that scientist in the pipeline until they're sure he will keep his mouth shut?

Between keeping prisoners in the pipeline and risking the world to save his mother, I believe Barry's moral compass is seriously skewed toward convenience and putting his own family & friends first.

 

I was doing a lot of eye rolling, with the way everyone just assumed either Hewitt or Jax would be willing at a moment's thought to merge with Stein and then Caitlin ripping into Jax because it freaked him out and he wasn't interested. .

Yeah, I thought Jax's response was totally spot on.  I mean how many would want to merge with a complete stranger (and not in a good way). 

 

I found Hewitt's heel turn somewhat puzzling.  So he's mad that he wasn't a suitable candidate to merge with Stein.  However he's even more upset that he gets powers without having to share his body with someone?  Seems like he got a better deal as long as he learns to control his temper.

[Actionmage]

So what Caitlin is a bit of a snob? It's a character flaw. Characters are SUPPOSED to have those. We're acting like Caitlin being a snob makes her some awful human.

 

For myself, I don't like that  for Caitlin because a character I like.  Here is where I get to yak about liking/not liking how the characters act. Still, being that level of classist almost killed Martin, simply because Caitlin could not look closer at the candidates than their names and if there were initials after said names. Stein and Garrick are more immediately acceptable to her because they not only are scientists, but have degrees. I get the equation of degree= hard work, long hours, etc. I don't have to agree that it's a good thing.

 

The writers also did the time squish thing of having the "mean" character apologize in order to get on the "wronged" character's good side again so that the "wronged" character will do something for the "mean" character/ the group the "mean" character is in.  It comes off as Caitlin apologizing only in order to get Jefferson to come back and take on this enormous responsibility that he initially rejected. Danielle was good in the scene and explaining about Ronnie, but it felt, to me, like it was only because Martin was hovering on Death's door that she came to apologize. That she was aware enough to know that she made the mess and needed to set things right, but would have sent anyone else to talk Jefferson into returning if the situation wasn't as dire. That isn't just flawed, that's dismissive. Granted, that is just my take on the scene and I'm probably alone in it.  It stuck out to me because I wasn't expecting that from Caitlin.  As quarks noted, it's not like car mechanics are lunkheads; they make good cash and have to be very conversant in technology.

 

 

This is why we get characters like Patty....

 

We get characters like Patty from writers rooms, not because a regular character shows a less-than-sterling moment or two in one episode.

 

I just thought the story behind her disappearance would be bigger than it is.

 

Yeppers.

Check out 12 Monkeys on SyFy

Thank you for the tip, cynic! 

 

From quarks:

 

1. Stein is dying and nobody bothers to call his wife or get her opinion on things and what she thinks of having her husband merge into yet another guy? I know you're trying not to pay day players/guest stars for budget reasons, show, but in that case, why give Stein a wife at all? He could have been single.

 

Preach! Either they could have made him single/a widower, or put King Shark on hold for another week. With the latter, it would totally have been an even bigger surprise.  Clarissa doesn't even have to talk, if the reasons are budgetary. At least have her being supportive or concerned in the background while the team is quietly discussing what they're going to do.  If you absolutely can't have Isabella Hoffman, at least spend a nanosecond with Caitlin telling the group that she just called Clarissa to come by, or tell folks Clarissa just ran to the break room for some coffee or whatever. It would show that the writers are aware that family is important to more than just the Allen-West household.

 

I feel it's a little too early to introduce a talking shark into this show. I didn't want anyone to jump over him yet!

 

Thanks for the laugh!

[FurryFury]

Very disappointing, after the last week's standout.

Never gave a damn about Firestorm (except for Stein who's great), sad to see it continued with Jay. Although he's not as bad as Ronnie, I give him that.

 

Also disappointed at losing Eobard!Wells, but I've expected this for months. I just know I'll be missing his relationships with the team and TC's acting in that role.

 

The landshark was way too ridiculous,

 

Iris' mother was a dud. Such a waste.

 

One think I've liked I didn't expect to was Caitlyn. She actually got quite a few meaningful scenes in s2 so far. Still meh on DP's acting, but she seems to be getting better.... slowly. Very slowly.

Edited October 28, 2015 by FurryFury

[cynic]

Heh, I only caught a few minutes of the show last night, but all I could focus on was how DP moves her mouth weirdly to one side when she speaks. I think the new harsher makeup finally made me realize what the heck was bothering me about it. And then she literally threw up her hands in exasperation and I forgot about her mouth. If you can't tell, I'm not a fan of hers.

The landshark (like the telepathic gorilla) is just too OTT for me. I don't like those elements. I prefer when the show is a bit more grounded. It seems the writing is tighter then too. Too often it seems like the writers start to fanboy out and write these big moments, but let everything else just become stupid dreck.