Leon Brown: So Here's Me

[Absolom]

12 hours ago, deirdra said:

I thought so, since I'm a scientist, with published non-fiction books and articles, who has never referred to myself as a "writer".  Apparently only people who make things up think of themselves as "writers".  Has writer Leo started using capital letters or still emulating e. e. cummings?

Exactly.  The other child is a scientist who happens to publish and if asked she'd say she's a scientist.  Putting up a blog does not a writer make.  I currently have a blog and have had several previously.  That didn't make me more than a blogger.  I've so far not known of Leon doing more than writing school papers, instagram, or the short-term blog.  Most of us have done as much or more.  I would like to know what both Leon and Audrey are doing for work or to earn money or if they are expecting Meri to support them short or long term.  

[GeeGolly]

If you want to file taxes all legal names have to match (at least in my state). Prior to 9/11 I had my birth name on my SS card and my married named on my license for about 15+ years. The IRS fined me $50 when filing taxes. When 9/11 came happened I was forced to change my SS card name before I could renew my license. 

Similar for my mom. She always, for decades, used her middle name (which she went by) on her license, but again after 9/11 she had to use her first name.

If Leon's not working/filing taxes and doesn't need to renew their license then I guess it doesn't matter now - but it will. But they can casually go by Leon and keep everything else in their legal name for as long they want.

[winsomeone]

Bank accounts would need a legal name too? Our doctor's office requires your listed name be what is on your birth certificate too. I imagine the same with various insurance policies too? And when signing a lease? Other than with family and friends can a person really use a new name?

[NoWhammies]

2 hours ago, winsomeone said:

Someone here said a person doesn't have to change their name legally, but just announce to the world what their new name is? I don't think that would work for social security...they want proof of what your name is, like a birth certificate. So if Leon applies for a job, they would have to list their old name on the application form? Then argue with the new employer as to what they would be called? Also. if a person declares that they are now trans, and have no surgery or hormone treatments, how is the world suppose to recognize that they are now different? I just do not understand this? Leon looks the same in pictures as they always did?

I know many pursue legal name changes. Our daughter did--it's not that complicated. So her name is legal and her dead name only exists on old records. I don't want to use her real name to protect her privacy, but let's say her name is "Megan" and her previous name is "Mark."

When we were first adapting to Megan as her name, I asked our daughter what she wanted us to call her when we discussed her as a child, and she asked that we use her current name. I asked how she felt about having childhood photos around the house, and she said she was fine with it as long as we did it with the understanding she was always Megan, even if she looked like Mark in the photos. 

As a parent, there is definitely a period where you adapt and do the very best you can. There is also a bit of cognitive dissonance and I'd say even a grieving process. Even though we never had an issue with her being Megan and we love her deeply, there's a sense of loss surrounding Mark. It's hard to explain. I think the grief is surrounding a belief or attachment we held to Mark, since the person is clearly still there and very happy. And because she is happy, so are we. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by NoWhammies

[ginger90]

2 hours ago, BAForever said:

Have Kody and Robyn commented on Leon's announcement on IG? 

No. The last time Kody posted was November 2021, to announce “Christine’s decision” to leave. Robyn last posted in March of 2019.

[Ms.Lulu]

15 hours ago, NoWhammies said:

Regarding the topless thing...I know at Pride in Seattle, there are topless people. Bottomless people. All kinds of nudity. Which is legal but only really common at Pride. Let me tell you, I've seen some things...

The Naked Bike Ride.

I have happened upon it several times here in Portland while out and about shopping.  It has a parade feel and people paint their bodies, wear hats and play instruments.

I have always stopped and watched the parade.  Many others do too.  Mostly I marvel that people are comfortable in their own skin and I am happy they are enjoying the sun, the ride and the festivities.  

Nothing about the parade is remotely sexual.

[NoWhammies]

6 minutes ago, Ms.Lulu said:

The Naked Bike Ride.

I have happened upon it several times here in Portland while out and about shopping.  It has a parade feel and people paint their bodies, wear hats and play instruments.

I have always stopped and watched the parade.  Many others do too.  Mostly I marvel that people are comfortable in their own skin and I am happy they are enjoying the sun, the ride and the festivities.  

Nothing about the parade is remotely sexual.

Agreed. I love Seattle Pride. Parking and transportation to it is a nightmare, but it's a blast. 

[BAForever]

23 minutes ago, NoWhammies said:

I know many pursue legal name changes. Our daughter did--it's not that complicated. So her name is legal and her dead name only exists on old records. I don't want to use her real name to protect her privacy, but let's say her name is "Megan" and her previous name is "Mark."

When we were first adapting to Megan as her name, I asked our daughter what she wanted us to call her when we discussed her as a child, and she asked that we use her current name. I asked how she felt about having childhood photos around the house, and she said she was fine with it as long as we did it with the understanding she was always Megan, even if she looked like Mark in the photos. 

As a parent, there is definitely a period where you adapt and do the very best you can. There is also a bit of cognitive dissonance and I'd say even a grieving process. Even though we never had an issue with her being Megan and we love her deeply, there's a sense of loss surrounding Mark. It's hard to explain. I think the grief is surrounding a belief or attachment we held to Mark, since the person is clearly still there and very happy. And because she is happy, so are we. 

Thanks for first hand view. Megan is lucky to have the love and support of her family. I'd like to think I could handle this situation as well as you are. Hugs to all of you. 

[deirdra]

Canadian passports and many provincial DLs  have the choice of M, F or X for gender.

In the US, do the health insurance laws only apply to those with "Obamacare", Medicaid & Medicare?  I seem to recall that private insurance, particularly for some religious organizations, could exclude things like birth control. I recall an article where some insurance plans covered Viagra but not BC pills. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by deirdra

[LilyD]

Re. Name changes:

I guess it totally depends on how official you want to make things. Millions of people have Christian names that do not match the name they go by in daily life. Think of all the Jacksons that go by Jack, Jake, Jay for instance. Some even have a first name  that looks nothing like their official christian name. 
To most people, it simply is no big deal as long as their chosen name is respected and used in daily life. And yes, you can enroll at school with your chosen name, but do realise that any certificate will be issued under your official name, like all official documents. But  I doubt many Ricks care that their driving licence says Frederick to give another example.

However…..I can totally see why this can be a big issue to some. In such cases, a legal change may be the solution: I once had a girl in my class who suffered serious abuse as a little girl. She legally changed her name to symbolically start a new life and leave her “old damaged self” behind. To trans people, a legal change can be very much desired too: Imagine Leon booking a plane ticket which is then issued under the name of Mariah Brown or has to buy a house as Mariah instead of Leon… that’s a whole different matter and disrespectful. I can totally see why this asks for a new name that is legally yours in every way too.

To summarize; you can call yourself whatever you want in every day life. Official names are used for official documents. If you don’t want this, a legal change is the right course of action.

[deirdra]

In this day and age with identity fraud, it is probably a good idea to legally change your name on everything and make sure that your dead name is truly dead so nobody can rack up charges on it that you later become liable for. Even birth certificates can be re-issued in a different name. 

[CalicoKitty]

I have never had a name or identity change, but my financial man told me to make sure I use my legal name on everything--DL, Social Security, insurance, bank accounts--everything.   He said it is much easier for your estate to make sure it is you.  Also, to collect Social Security, it is important to have everything in one name.  An attorney recently told me the same thing.  There have been serious financial issues when someone used two names.  It is much easier to protect your identity if your name is the same on everything.  I think you can and should be called by any name you would like, (middle name, nickname, new name ) but I get the idea that it is very important to have and use a legal name with a legal signature.  It can really mess up your Social Security, too.  (I'm still amazed that Michelle Duggar has a legal signature - I guess it is her legal signature - that uses a heart to dot the "i" in her name.).

I think there will be more options and choices on all legal and medical forms in the near future, and I'm guessing probably more people will be making legal name changes.  I would hate to see anyone have their finances  messed up over a name.

[deirdra]

I've seen university students who enroll with the name they prefer, and one had a typo in their last name on the class list so I suggested they get it corrected before they graduate. They didn't think it was a biggie, but in a few years it could be a big problem proving that this credential belongs to them.

[CalicoKitty]

1 minute ago, deirdra said:

I've seen university students who enroll with the name they prefer, and one had a typo in their last name on the class list so I suggested they get it corrected before they graduate. They didn't think it was a biggie, but in a few years it could be a big problem proving that this credential belongs to them.

I hope this person does not have to learn the hard way how important spelling names really is.  It seems super important to me.

I have a cousin (male) whose first name is spelled Donn.  He was assigned to a women's dorm and had other problems because someone in the registrar's office added an "a" on the end.  Spelling matters.

[Irate Panda]

Does anyone remember when Leo and Audrey were suppose to get married?  Also, did they (either one) mention why exactly they decided to move to Denver? It’s been so long I can’t remember did they leave Chicago for Utah because of Covid or did they leave because Leo wasn’t in school there anymore?

[Ms.Lulu]

1 hour ago, Irate Panda said:

Does anyone remember when Leo and Audrey were suppose to get married?  Also, did they (either one) mention why exactly they decided to move to Denver? It’s been so long I can’t remember did they leave Chicago for Utah because of Covid or did they leave because Leo wasn’t in school there anymore?

August 29, 2021 was the planned date.  

They left Chicago because of Covid and moved to Flagstaff.  They quickly relocated to Parawon so that Bonnie wouldn't have to run Lizzie's Heritage Inn.

Why do I waste brain cells remembering this?

[lookeyloo]

11 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If you want to file taxes all legal names have to match (at least in my state). Prior to 9/11 I had my birth name on my SS card and my married named on my license for about 15+ years. The IRS fined me $50 when filing taxes. When 9/11 came happened I was forced to change my SS card name before I could renew my license. 

Similar for my mom. She always, for decades, used her middle name (which she went by) on her license, but again after 9/11 she had to use her first name.

If Leon's not working/filing taxes and doesn't need to renew their license then I guess it doesn't matter now - but it will. But they can casually go by Leon and keep everything else in their legal name for as long they want.

I am just catching up. I wonder why I have never been flagged. My SS card changed with marriage to Dr Ex. After the divorce I kept that name because of my kids. Then married Mr lookeyloo and still use Dr Ex’s name.  We file taxes as married. But different names. We bought our current house 6 years ago and had to list all possible names which I did but have never been flagged. We are coming up on 40 years married. Maybe Leon and Audrey will have a different scenario because of gender change?  It is all very confusing to me. 

[GeeGolly]

5 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

I am just catching up. I wonder why I have never been flagged. My SS card changed with marriage to Dr Ex. After the divorce I kept that name because of my kids. Then married Mr lookeyloo and still use Dr Ex’s name.  We file taxes as married. But different names. We bought our current house 6 years ago and had to list all possible names which I did but have never been flagged. We are coming up on 40 years married. Maybe Leon and Audrey will have a different scenario because of gender change?  It is all very confusing to me. 

My problem was I was Jane Doe on my SS card and Jane Deer everywhere else. It sounds like your SS card and legal name are same name. So it was my (married) name on my W2s didn't match my (birth) name on my SS card. The IRS fined me $50 a year because I'm guessing they had to click an extra button because of the name discrepancy.

When I went to renew my license sometime after 9/11 they wouldn't let me. The reason I was given was because my SS# had a different name, Jane Doe than my license, Jane Deer and their protocols changed after 9/11. So I had to change my name on my SS card before they would allow me to renew.

Similar thing happened to my mom. She was Sally Marie Doe on her SS card but was Marie Doe on her license. My mom's license renewal was easier, they just put her full name on her license. Well kind of easier because when she signed it, she automatically signed it Marie Doe, so they had to print another one, which she signed Sally M Doe.

[LilyD]

Wow, names and identities can be even more complicated than I thought? Here, everything is rigidly kept on record. The good thing is, it’s very hard to confuse identities and fairly easy to track somebody’s record. The bad thing is, that you can never let go of your past, even if you wanted to. Let’s take Leon as example if they lived over here (and assuming they legally changed names)

All legal documents would have been issued as Mariah Lian Brown. This can be changed in court. A deed would be added to Mariah’s official birth certificate and replace the birth certificate with Leon’s. Both are kept on record, so nothing is destroyed, but the old one is never used again. With the new certificate, Leon would then be able to officially change names on all other legal documents such as mortgages or passports.

It  may seem odd that the old certificate is not destroyed. However, this is done to make sure that there will always be a (dormant) link between Mariah and Leon. I.e. any official inquiry to Mariah will automatically link to Leon. Imagine an inheritance for example; if the will appointed a certain ms M. L. Brown as heir, this would automatically lead to Leon Brown, who wouldn’t miss out on what is legally theirs. On the down side, their personal file in the official records will always have a reference to their former self., but since you normally do not see those records, I suppose it doesn’t really matter.

[GeeGolly]

Anything to do with names and legal documentation/services here is very complicated because every place wants at least three forms of ID.

I can't tell you how many clients I've had with no copies of their BC of SS card or any picture ID. But SS wants to see your BC before issuing a new card. Usually obtaining a copy of your BC is the easiest. But then every place wants a third form - it could be a bill with your address on it, a marriage license, or driver's license, a college ID with a picture, etc.

So to obtain services like health insurance and/or food and financial benefits its takes money, finesse and transportation, and that's just to prove you're you.

I imagine with a legal name change, if that's what Leon will eventually do, having a formal document stating the name change might make it all easier, but once their BC is changed they will then need to change their SS card and then change their driver's license and then there are all the bills like cell phone, utilities, etc, that would also need to be changed. Hoop after hoop after hoop needs to be jumped through.

[winsomeone]

Quote

Do you really think Leon will go to the trouble and expense of legally changing they name? Their family doesn't seem to do much legally, like marriage or divorce?

[questionfear]

23 hours ago, Sandy W said:

Not just SS, what about Driver's License?  On my DL, there is a blank where you must identify gender.  As far as I know, there is only M/F designations, perhaps forward thinking communities will allow a T for transsexual?

There would not be a T for trans, that's absolutely not a separate gender. Someone who is a binary trans person would use the gender with which they identify, so a male to female would mark as Female and female to male would mark as Male. 

Some states (including my home state) offer the option of listing X for your gender instead of M/F if you identify as non-binary. Every state has their own requirements. Mine was a self-declaration and I just had to present them with a signed form saying I was making the change of my own free will so my legal license would match my gender identity and I had no intent to cause fraud in making the change, and the DMV didn't blink an eye. But the euphoria at seeing X when i look at my license is priceless.

I was not required to change my birth certificate or any information with Social Security, it was purely for self-reporting purposes on my driver's license. 

22 hours ago, winsomeone said:

Bank accounts would need a legal name too? Our doctor's office requires your listed name be what is on your birth certificate too. I imagine the same with various insurance policies too? And when signing a lease? Other than with family and friends can a person really use a new name?

Plenty of people go by nicknames instead of legal names. I started dating someone recently, and she only knew my nickname, and in fact in doing her due diligence to make sure i wasn't a serial killer she had a friend google me because she didn't want to know my legal name unless I wanted to tell her. Which was incredibly sweet. 

Yes, when I go to a doctor's office or call my insurance I have to use my legal name. Same with work. But, for example, I put down at my orthopedist's office that I preferred a different name than my legal name, so while they know to file my insurance under my legal name, they call me by my nickname. In my job, I have people who prefer to go by their middle name or a nickname, and we'll input their legal name along with a note (IE John goes by middle name Sam). 

There's nothing wrong with going by a name that's not your legal name, and the process to make that change can be fairly arduous. But honestly, unless Leon is working with their insurance, banking, a doctor's office, or an employer HR form, there's absolutely no scenario where they'd have to use their legal name outside of paperwork. 

[LilyD]

5 hours ago, winsomeone said:

Do you really think Leon will go to the trouble and expense of legally changing they name? Their family doesn't seem to do much legally, like marriage or divorce?

I assume they will eventually. Leon made it very, very obvious they do not appreciate any mix ups. And if Leon is officially listed as a woman and as Mariah, this is bound to go wrong. The only way to prevent this, is a legal change making them legally a different gender (whether male or non-binary) which would (likely) prevent it. 
 

General questions; I’m assuming your US passport does state your full legal name, including middle names? And any plane tickets are issued like this as well? (This is the case in Europe, your ticket has to match your EU identity card/passport otherwise it’s invalid)  I don’t know what BC and SS cards are, but when applying for health care, bank accounts or anything official, you’d need a passport or identity card to prove you’re really you, which means that everything here in the EU is listed under your legal name.

[deirdra]

31 minutes ago, LilyD said:

I don’t know what BC and SS cards are, but when applying for health care, bank accounts or anything official, you’d need a passport or identity card to prove you’re really you, which means that everything here in the EU is listed under your legal name.

BC=birth certificate & SS=Social Security card, neither of which have photos. SS card is needed for anything financial (including enrolling in higher education). BC is needed to apply for a passport (plus someone who knows you vouching for your identity matching your photo) & Driver's License. Once you have a DL or passport, those are used as ID in the US, but neither is required if you don't drive or leave the country. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by deirdra

[Adiba]

2 hours ago, deirdra said:

BC=birth certificate & SS=Social Security card, neither of which have photos. SS card is needed for anything financial (including enrolling in higher education). BC is needed to apply for a passport (plus someone who knows you vouching for your identity matching your photo) & Driver's License. Once you have a DL or passport, those are used as ID in the US, but neither is required if you don't drive or leave the country. 

Your Social security number is also used for healthcare,  insurance, for work, etc. so having names match may make things less complicated in the long run, but it’s not absolutely necessary. It just depends how much it bothers Leon to see their legal name on paperwork if they want to change it. 
 

This may be my bias speaking (I don’t particularly care for their personality), but I can imagine Leon almost wishing that someone will mis-gender or mis-pronoun them. Then Leon can sanctimoniously “educate” the offender on proper trans language. 

[deirdra]

1 hour ago, Adiba said:

This may be my bias speaking (I don’t particularly care for their personality), but I can imagine Leon almost wishing that someone will mis-gender or mis-pronoun them. Then Leon can sanctimoniously “educate” the offender on proper trans language. 

I suspect the same.  Audrey on IG started their trans announcement with simple, pleasant and educational posts about how the pronouns work, etc., assuming that people want to address Audrey and other trans people the way they want to be addressed. Leo assumes the worst of people and informs them how they will be cut off if Leo's rules are not followed exactly. But Meri did teach Leo how to build walls, not how to break them down for people.

[LilyD]

3 hours ago, deirdra said:

I suspect the same.  Audrey on IG started their trans announcement with simple, pleasant and educational posts about how the pronouns work, etc., assuming that people want to address Audrey and other trans people the way they want to be addressed. Leo assumes the worst of people and informs them how they will be cut off if Leo's rules are not followed exactly. But Meri did teach Leo how to build walls, not how to break them down for people.

You perfectly summed up the difference between those two. One explains and kindly asks, the other demands and almost threatens (if you care about being cut off)

Meri also raised Leon to be entitled and demanding, hence the tone in the message. I’ve wondered if Leon is aware of how those messages come across and might want to believe that a polite request could achieve more?

[Art Of Noiz]

I have a little trouble with shifting names, transgender, queer, LGBT, whatever. Because I am terrified of offending someone, I don't say much or ask questions. 

But to use they or them to refer to one human is tough for me. My mind jumps to.." MPD?" And, I just know that by the time I get it right, it will change. Ahh well...

Edited July 12, 2022 by Art Of Noiz
Spelling

[TurtlePower]

6 hours ago, Art Of Noiz said:

I have a little trouble with shifting names, transgender, queer, LGBT, whatever. Because I am terrified of offending someone, I don't say much or ask questions. 

But to use they or them to refer to one human is tough for me. My mind jumps to.." MPD?" And, I just know that by the time I get it right, it will change. Ahh well...

I’m afraid of offending also, mostly someone like Leon who is the type of person to make someone feel bad versus kindly educate. I also agree with a poster earlier that thought Leon might hope to have the wrong pronoun used for them as an excuse to become angry and belittle someone. They’re just an angry person at their core. 

I work with some trans people and am used to the pronouns, but they are also really nice. If I ever slipped up, they wouldn’t make me feel awful about it. 

[GeeGolly]

I find it helpful to look at it 'backwards'. In other words they haven't transitioned into a new gender, they transitioned into who they are. They were always a male or female - we were actually misgendering them before. If that makes any sense.

Trans folks were 'pretending' before and are authentic now.

[questionfear]

19 hours ago, LilyD said:

I assume they will eventually. Leon made it very, very obvious they do not appreciate any mix ups. And if Leon is officially listed as a woman and as Mariah, this is bound to go wrong. The only way to prevent this, is a legal change making them legally a different gender (whether male or non-binary) which would (likely) prevent it. 
 

General questions; I’m assuming your US passport does state your full legal name, including middle names? And any plane tickets are issued like this as well? (This is the case in Europe, your ticket has to match your EU identity card/passport otherwise it’s invalid)  I don’t know what BC and SS cards are, but when applying for health care, bank accounts or anything official, you’d need a passport or identity card to prove you’re really you, which means that everything here in the EU is listed under your legal name.

Yes, you do need your legal name on your passport, license, etc. FWIW I do recall that the last time I flew, American Airlines asked for both my legal name and my preferred name, so there are places that try to accommodate both. 

32 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I find it helpful to look at it 'backwards'. In other words they haven't transitioned into a new gender, they transitioned into who they are. They were always a male or female - we were actually misgendering them before. If that makes any sense.

Trans folks were 'pretending' before and are authentic now.

This is a beautiful way of looking at it. <3

[Natalie68]

On 7/10/2022 at 5:16 PM, deirdra said:

I've seen university students who enroll with the name they prefer, and one had a typo in their last name on the class list so I suggested they get it corrected before they graduate. They didn't think it was a biggie, but in a few years it could be a big problem proving that this credential belongs to them.

I work at a University and yes, preferred names are very common.  It gets put on their ID cards, class lists, student records.  

[ginger90]

[xwordfanatik]

Odd term of endearment, "bastard."  

[DakotaJustice]

I hope this isn’t misconstrued but damn, Leo is really obese. 

[Absolom]

It's tough to find anything kind to say about that photo.

[Irate Panda]

Does anyone know around how tall Leon is? 
 

eta: Is the tattoo on Leo’s upper arm new and can anyone tell exactly what it is?

Edited July 25, 2022 by Irate Panda

[oliviabenson]

I can’t tell them apart.

[LilyD]

6 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

Does anyone know around how tall Leon is? 
 

eta: Is the tattoo on Leo’s upper arm new and can anyone tell exactly what it is?

You know….that tattoo got me really puzzled too. So I asked my kids and got two, well… very different answers… My talented and creative daughter says it’s obviously a peach whereas my 10-year old son compared it to a mosquito sneaking into someone’s butt! I hadn’t seen it that way but now I cannot unsee it! Anyway it left me in hysterics.

For Leon’s sake, I hope this tattoo isn’t finished yet. If it is, I’d  now definitely recommend asking for a refund or proper cover tattoo!

[GeeGolly]

Again, like I said before, I alternate between embrace you body and did you look in the mirror.

But really, there are clothes available to compliment any body shape. IMO, its almost like Leon is embracing their gender to the point of a stereotypical image of a chubby guy, or an "old fat man*". Maybe they'll tone it down a bit once they get over the initial elation?

*not fat shaming, just trying to paint a picture

[TurtlePower]

7 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

Does anyone know around how tall Leon is? 
 

eta: Is the tattoo on Leo’s upper arm new and can anyone tell exactly what it is?

I found a page that listed them as 5’9”. 

[Cetacean]

They really love that squinty-eyed, teeth bared "happy look".  Looks vaguely sinister to me.

[SunnyBeBe]

5 hours ago, LilyD said:

You know….that tattoo got me really puzzled too. So I asked my kids and got two, well… very different answers… My talented and creative daughter says it’s obviously a peach whereas my 10-year old son compared it to a mosquito sneaking into someone’s butt! I hadn’t seen it that way but now I cannot unsee it! Anyway it left me in hysterics.

For Leon’s sake, I hope this tattoo isn’t finished yet. If it is, I’d  now definitely recommend asking for a refund or proper cover tattoo!

I agree with your son on the tattoo. Lol

[Cetacean]

How I see the smiley affectation.

[Teafortwo]

Leo's shorts look soooo uncomfortable. Tight at the waist and the thighs. Ouch!

[TurtlePower]

14 hours ago, Teafortwo said:

Leo's shorts look soooo uncomfortable. Tight at the waist and the thighs. Ouch!

Can’t believe I’m gonna say this but LuLaRot leggings or jeans would look better than those shorts (and way more comfortable).  To each their own (as the saying goes), but those shorts look uncomfortable and awkward.

I wonder if Leo got top surgery. They look like maybe they did but, speculating because they haven’t said they did (unless I missed it).

I also wonder how much that costs — I had implants removed a couple years ago because one ruptured and it was 5k for the removal alone. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by TurtlePower

[questionfear]

1 hour ago, TurtlePower said:

Can’t believe I’m gonna say this but LuLaRot leggings or jeans would look better than those shorts (and way more comfortable).  To each their own (as the saying goes), but those shorts look uncomfortable and awkward.

I wonder if Leo got top surgery. They look like maybe they did but, speculating because they haven’t said they did (unless I missed it).

I also wonder how much that costs — I had implants removed a couple years ago because one ruptured and it was 5k for the removal alone. 

They could also be using a chest binder. A properly fitting one will do wonders for flattening. So will trans tape (basically KT tape but you use it to flatten your chest down...just NEVER remove it without soaking the adhesive in oil first or you will not be a happy camper. Hypothetically.)

It's incredibly hard to tell from the picture BUT if I had to speculate I'd say they're wearing a binder. It's not usually a quick turnaround to top surgery. 

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, questionfear said:

It's incredibly hard to tell from the picture BUT if I had to speculate I'd say they're wearing a binder. It's not usually a quick turnaround to top surgery. 

They aren’t on social media as often as they were. What appears to be quick, really isn’t, considering that. 

[WhatsUpDummy]

Are either of them capable of taking a picture without squinting?  I'm not making fun, it's a legitimate question.  I know when most of us genuinely smile or laugh, our faces squish up but I feel like they're going to look back at all their photos in a few years and think "Are there any pictures where you can see our eyes?".  Occasionally, take a nice staged pic where you're both looking at the camera with both eyes open and nice smile.  

Edited July 26, 2022 by WhatsUpDummy

[Absolom]

They could also dress nicely in whatever taste they follow at least once a year for a better memory on instagram for their followers.  I wouldn't want to be forever remembered in too tight shorts, my belly hanging out, looking less than kempt, with a squinted face.