S02.E02: Rise Of The Villains: Knock, Knock

[formerlyfreedom]

On the heels of his reinstatement, Gordon is thrust onto the high-profile case tracking the deadly inmate escape from Arkham Asylum. Meanwhile, Galavan plans his next move, while Bruce asks for help from his father's old friend to unlock the secrets in his office, and Nygma asks out Kristin Kringle on a date.

 

 

[Delphi]

Omg I called Essen dying. But I really didn't want her going this soon. That's upsetting.

[RandomWatcher]

Well so much for Essen and Gordon hooking up down the line.

[Primetimer]

Just kidding! Actually, there are dozens of onscreen murders.

Read the story

[Spartan Girl]

Dayum. RIP Essen and Gotham PD. But at least Bullock is back! Let's hope he survives the season.

Okay Jerome, I believe you're the Joker now! He had a shaky backstory but I'm enjoying him now.

And I don't care if Barbara is more fun as a villian, she's still the same whiny, self-righteous bitch she was last season, blaming Jim for everything that went wrong. I'm ready for Jim or Leslie to put a bullet between her eyes very soon.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Spartan Girl

[mtlchick]

Well you did it show. You had me yelling "GOD DAMMIT!  NOT ESSEN!" and had me wanting throwing things at my TV.  That and Barbara going gonzo is starting to rev things up a bit.  

 

But I'm not sure what version of the "not Joker" we're supposed to be getting here.  Jack Nicholson?  Jared Leto from the trailer?  Heath Ledger?  Mark Hamill?  (Actually not Hamill because that is just perfection.)  

[Philbert]

 

But I'm not sure what version of the "not Joker" we're supposed to be getting here.  Jack Nicholson?

 

 

I got a distinctly Nicholsonian vibe from him in this episode.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Essen didn't have to die, for Bullock to return.

BOO!

I'm tired of NotJoker the Red Herring, please be dead by the midseason finale.

Edited September 29, 2015 by MrsRafaelBarba

[HoodlumSheep]

RIP Commissioner Essen :'(. Why??????? I liked her.

I loved this episode. It's probably the best one to date and my new favorite episode of Gotham.

The Maniax are awesome. Jerome is fantastic. harvey's back! Too bad it had to be under these circumstances.

I'm not sure if I'm feeling this Lucius though. The Alfred/Lucius scene was the only weak point of the episode for me.

Edited September 29, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Delphi]

I think I enjoyed this as much as the premier. Maybe more. It is certainly the rise of the villains. Jerome is certainly the Joker.

As always I enjoyed the Bruce scenes. The two just work so well together. I'm surprised that the estrangement didn't last longer though.

Poor Essen. I think her character had room to grow and I think they could have kept her around longer. They weren't joking about moving away from the police angle. I'm going to miss the actress a lot.

Yay bullock is back. As is Scottie. I'm all for a accepted reunion.

Ed keeps getting crazier. Hopefully getting the girl will postpone that. But I think instead he'll go more crazy trying to please her.

That's all I got for now.

[MisterGlass]

Nicholson-esque.  Hamill and Ledger Jokers are more organized and a touch less impulsive.  Leto remains to be seen.

 

I've been suspending disbelief actively through most of this show's run, but this one just about broke my ability to rationalize.

 

I did like the addition of Lucius and the uneasy initial relationship with Alfred.  And at least Bullock is back.

 

ETA: Nygma needs a little more time to shine.

Edited September 29, 2015 by MisterGlass

[Delphi]

The other Jokers are older. Eighteen year olds are as a rule more impulsive than their 35 year old selves.

[SoSueMe]

Loving Alfred, missing Oswald, loving Bullock, scared of Jerome.

[Lantern7]

Maniacs shooting up the GCPD? Must be Monday.

 

Seriously, I want Noker gone. We get it . . . he's insane in the membrane. I'm old that way . . . the only thing that might satisfy me is if Noker hands Mark Hamil a giant novelty royalty check at the end of every episode. In other news, how effective can the "Maniax" (oy) be when 40 percent of them get bumped off in one episode? Now it's just Babs, Noker, and Random Lunatic #895.

 

I miss Oswald. I hope he comes back soon, because the show isn't the same without him.

 

RIP Sarah Essen. And nice to see Lucius try to get in touch with his inner Morgan Freeman.

[Chaos Theory]

And the anti has officially been upped.

 

There are a couple ways shows go.  Some shows explode on you from the start but can't maintain the fire for very long.  Then there are others that have a very slow start.  People drop the show pretty quickly because the show takes time to sometimes even an entire season to build a complicated and complex world and if the show survives to a second season you see what the world is capable of.   I think Gotham is the 2nd.  Season 1 took almost an entire season to build a complicated world and dark world but I am pretty sure it was worth it.

 

Damn Barbara has come into her own.  And I agree,  Why do the boys get to have all of the fun?  I am loving Barbara but then i think people are giving her a bad rap. I think she has been a great character since mid way through the first season.  Once the show figured out what to do with her she has become something to behold.

 

Nygma might have finally gotten Ms Kringle to Notice him.

 

Whether or not Jerome is Joker doesn't matter  I am enjoying the character.  Cameron Monaghan is doing a great job.  The minute the Maniax entered the police station I new Essen was dead and this was the way the show would get back Harvey.  

[Morrigan2575]

Haven't watched since 105 but this was highly entertaining. It hangs entirely on Jerome as the proto Joker (he's really the Joker right?) but, he's really good in the role.

Other than that, looking forward to seeing more of James Fran who is always fun to watch.

[Delphi]

Haven't watched since 105 but this was highly entertaining. It hangs entirely on Jerome as the proto Joker (he's really the Joker right?) but, he's really good in the role.

Other than that, looking forward to seeing more of James Fran who is always fun to watch.

If he is the Joker it makes it ridiculous that a decade from now Bruce and Jim can't figure out the actual identity of the Joker.

[bluvelvet]

Tonight's show definitely had the shock factor, did not expect them to kill all the cops in the precinct. I still think that was a bit over the top, of course all the main characters survived.  That being said, what a hell of an episode.

 

Okay, I really wanted Essen to hang around for a long time, not at all happy that she is dead.

 

The Noker/Real Joker or whomever he is supposed to be is going to start annoying me with that laugh pretty soon.  Use the laugh every once in a while not multiple times every single episode.

[MisterGlass]

From the recap:

Yes! Harvey has the brilliant idea to investigate the place those people were kidnapped from. Remember those people with the letters? They've apparently been completely ignored so far. Good thing Harvey's here!

 

So close to my inner monologue.

[Philbert]

 

And I don't care if Barbara is more fun as a villian, she's still the same whiny, self-righteous bitch she was last season, blaming Jim for everything that went wrong.

 

She might be whiney and self righteous but she just saved Gordon's life by luring him out of that massacre.

[mjc570]

wow, i though that was awesome - talk about over the top!  I have to give a shout out to the set designers/costume designers or whatever you call the people repsonsible for the look of a show.  I can't think of another show that is so interesting to look at.

 

Was there some kind of subtext  with the Alfred/Lucius talk in the bar?  Alfred going on and on about "tucking you up like a kipper" felt like some kind of inside joke.  I will admit that I haven't really watched the Batman films, but I am generally familiar with the origin story and some of the characters.

[Writing Wrongs]

I might be in the minority, but I hate The Joker guy. I feel like he's trying too hard. I ended up fast forwarding through some of his scenes.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Writing Wrongs

[thuganomics85]

Considering how incompetent the GCPD always seems to be besides Jim and Bullock, I guess it really isn't surprising that they would all get massacred that easily.  Of course, the regulars (Leslie and Nygma) find ways to avoid dying (Miss Kringle too), but generally, the GCPD went out in an embarrassing fashion.  Sucks that Essen had to go out, because I felt like they could have done more with her character, but they just had to find a way to give Jim more angst and make Bullock finally come back to the force.  

I also figured something was up after hearing Michael Chiklis was going to be showing up as their new boss.

 

I honestly don't know if Jerome really is going to be the Joker, or all of this is the biggest fake-out ever.  Because they really are trying to make him The Joker.  Right now, I feel like he's really borrowing different parts of each of the past Jokers, and trying to blend them together.  We'll see if it works: I find it entertaining, but it can get tiring if they aren't careful.

 

Curious that Barbara actually saved Jim.  I wonder if that was part of Theo's plan, or she did it on her own accord.  Of course, it still led to him getting his ass kicked, so it's not like they are (hopefully) ever going to be getting back together soon.  Once again, Cray-Cray Barbara is the best Barbara.

 

Kind of found the Bruce/Alfred stuff dumb and boring, since I know even if they were going to "break-up", it wasn't going to be for long.  At least it lead to them bringing back Lucius Fox into the fold.  Hopefully he'll add something to this particular story-line.

 

Missed Oswald and his crew, but I'm sure they'll be back.  I'm guessing they'll end up working into the battle with Theo's unit, because while they might be bad too, they seem more like they need order in their brand of evil, and I can see the unpredictable antics, causing them issues.

[Sakura12]

Whether he's the Joker or not, I think Jerome has injected some life into this show. He's over the top crazy fun and I'm enjoying this show more because of him. I hope crazy Barbara is given more to do, she's more interesting a villain. 

 

I expected Essen to die the minute she asked Jim if he ever wanted to quit. It's too bad she couldn't stick around longer but I suppose we needed to see the Maniax as villains and not just people that talk a lot. 

 

I wasn't expecting most of them to be die so quickly, is James Frain just going to bust more inmates out? There's only 3 left, Noker, Barbara and the strong guy. 

[HalcyonDays]

That was a good episode, but disturbing. From throwing the bodies off the building, to the attempted torching of the bus full of high school girls, to killing almost all of the cops at the G6PD...disturbing.

 

I actually see Jerome as more Heath Ledger joker. Nicholson was violent, but not to these extremes. Remember the pencil trick? The end with Essen headbutted him, and he was getting a kick out of the pain he felt was Ledger to me. It does inject a crazy twisted vibe to the show.

 

Two out of five Maniax are dead. Jerome and Barbara will be last-Maniax standing.

[foreverevolving]

I'm gonna very disappointed if Cameron Monaghan won't at least get a nomination of something for this role. he's killing it (no pun intended).

I repeat: Barbara is so much more fun as a crazy murderous bitch, although her not so evil self was showing a bit when that big guy was punching Jim you could tell she still loves him, or at least cares.

 

You Killed Essen! you bastards!

 

am I the only one who spend the entire A/L scene thinking poor Lucius he's probably thinking Alfred is hitting on him.. I totally got that undertone from Pertwee acting.. it was.. odd and I was feeling as uncomfortable by that as Lucius was i bet. (not because of the undertone, but because it was coming from Alfred of all people).

[immortalfrieza]

Curious that Barbara actually saved Jim.  I wonder if that was part of Theo's plan, or she did it on her own accord.  Of course, it still led to him getting his ass kicked, so it's not like they are (hopefully) ever going to be getting back together soon. 

You answered your own question:

Considering how incompetent the GCPD always seems to be besides Jim and Bullock, I guess it really isn't surprising that they would all get massacred that easily.

Barbara took out the only remotely competent cop in the entire GCPD so the rest could actually have a chance in hell of succeeding in what they were doing, though I sure saving Jim was enough of a motivation for her.

 

On that note, Jim saw Barbara was just standing there (a known fugitive just waltzing into the GCPD without ANYONE noticing?) and he doesn't yell something like "THERE'S BARBARA KEEN!" "ARREST HER!!" and instead follows her into a deserted alley? If Gordon wasn't the main character and thus protected by plot armor I'll call him too dumb to live.

 

Then a few crazy criminals with guns waltz into the GCPD (with disguises or no) and massacre them ALL without a single casualty? Did the entire GCPD graduate from the Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy or something?

 

 

I honestly don't know if Jerome really is going to be the Joker, or all of this is the biggest fake-out ever.  Because they really are trying to make him The Joker.  Right now, I feel like he's really borrowing different parts of each of the past Jokers, and trying to blend them together.  We'll see if it works: I find it entertaining, but it can get tiring if they aren't careful.

My thought is that like with Sionus they are using Jerome as a Joker stand in so they can write a Joker episode without actually using him.

 

Once again, Cray-Cray Barbara is the best Barbara.

I would say Cray-Cray Barbara isn't even Barbara, just a completely different character wearing Barbara's skin. The only way they could make that awful character even slightly interesting was to all but literally throw out her entire characterization and replace her with a character that looks the same but acts entirely different, and that's bad writing. There was absolutely nothing throughout most of the show's run until the last few episodes that indicated that Barbara ever had something like what she's become in her, quite the opposite as a matter of fact.

[infomofo]

I like the mania that Cameron Monaghan brings to the role (plus I am already a Stan after Shameless). I just hope that next episode Barbara calls him "Mista Jayyy".

Edited September 29, 2015 by infomofo

[roomtorome]

Oh, man.  I know it was violent last year but boy, they have amped it up this year and while I know ISIS did not dream up their terrifying ways of killing people, I'm put off by the beheading last week and this week throwing men off the rood (as ISIS does with gay men) - something about these two horrifying methods in back to back episodes creeps me out  -  

 

I liked Bruce and Alfred and other scenes where we get some good interaction between characters - the rest of it with the torture and killings is just not much more than shock value - for me, anyway.  

 

And, no, I'm not saying one method of murder is better/worse than any other but I think what we have seen really happening in the world of late, I find using those methods in "entertainment" a wee bit over the top for me but then I'm kinda sick of all the torture porn in so many shows now - It's lazy writing to me - 

[TobinAlbers]

No one in their right mind would ever want to sign up as a cop at GCPD. It makes sense the cops would have to be as crazy as the thugs in that city.

Bad Babs is fun but she's starting to dare I say it get lame by blaming her ish on men and Jim in particular? Point of order he did listen to her, confide in her, and then she ran away like a wuss because she couldn't handle it. He could only wait so long. And why isn't some of this anger directed at Montoya? She went out of her way to undermine Jim/Babs and then when she got her, dumped her when she became a hot mess. She betrayed Babs as much as Jim. Now that would be interesting, Montoya back (since the GCPD needs bodies) and her having to hunt down Barbara.

I get Scotty is protective of Bullock but bitching at Jim? Girl, please, Bullock is his own man. I'm glad Bullock was like 'she'll either understand or she won't. I'm where I need to be.'

I knew we had a death coming and knew it had to be either Essen, Scotty, or Kringle. Those last two weren't big enough and when Essen got her 'it's a new day speech' I knew she was deaaaad.

Loved Alfred and Lucious' talk. I knew Alfred would threaten him but he worked his way up to it in a way I and Lucious could respect. Although in another show, that scene also worked as an awesome older gentleman picking up a dapper dude:)

And adored the paternal vibe Lucious had towards Bruce and how he was so yearning, now can he stop whining and shrieking and sobbing and throwing tantrums? At least he's going back to school.

Galavan reminds me of the kingpin characters they're doing over on Arrow. It's funny because I think their upcoming S4 villain is similar to Galavan in being suave, suited up, crazy and a recruiter. I think Frain would fare well in Starling City.

I really really wish we could get a Gotham/Arrow cop crossover where Gordon laughs at Quentin and tells him 'I got you beat with crazies, precinct massacres, and citywide crazy crap every.single.time'

This show is starting to get depressing. There is NO light at the end of the tunnel for Gotham, we know it's going to get worse- so much worse. It's why Bruce ultimately dons the cowl.

I miss Fish. Oddly did not miss Cobblepot. But then I'm betting he's gonna get involved because all this stuff with Galavan is doing is bad for business and just plain vulgar.

Cobblepot wants to rule a cruddy Gotham that's at his heel, not blow it up into chaos like some other crazy folk. He's gonna want Tabitha and her bro out ASAP.

Edited to correct Mendoza to Montoya. Sheesh.

Edited September 29, 2015 by TobinAlbers

[Sakura12]

Most tv villains do a lot of talking and very little doing. They say they are going to kill loved ones, then don't actually do it until the final couple of episodes. So I don't really feel they are a big a threat as the hero makes them out to be. So I don't mind the torture porn on this show because they are actually showing us these guys are no joke (pun intended). They've murdered and attempted to murder over a dozen people in the first 2 episodes. These guys are a threat that need to be stopped now. 

[NorthstarATL]

Jerome really stole the show! It doesn't matter to me whether he's the "real" Joker or not, as he has all the qualities that make the Joker so scary/entertaining. It's why eventually Batman has so much trouble with him. His actions don't make sense and are completely impulsive...or insane. Monaghan brought all that and it worked. Essen was the only replacement Commissioner I remember from the comics. I wonder who gets her job? Who would want it?

  I like Jim and Leslie together. They have an easy chemistry, and, knowing that it reflects real life, it makes sense.

   The weak link for me was the Bruce story. I wanted a bat to fly through the window and hit him upside the head.

[Lokiberry]

Great Day in the Morning! Who ever had the bright idea to bring in Teen Joker is an absolute, certifiable genius! Don't get me wrong: I loved the mob story last season, but this, this, THIS Gotham City, barreling 90 mph down the Highway to Hell is the Gotham City that I've known and loved for decades!

 

And, I am absolutely convinced that Jerome is the Joker, if for no other reason than they'll never get anyone else who could top this. This is the Joker from the comics. Completely, totally, malevolently insane. Unleashing him on the show is like a shot of adrenaline right in the heart. I can't wait to see what happens next.

[Cthulhudrew]

Sometimes I enjoy Monaghan's Joker?, but other times I think he's just ridiculously caricaturish. 

 

Oddly enough, even at his worst hamminess, he's still a better actor than Ben McKenzie's Gordon?.

 

(And he demonstrates a masterful control of his facial expressions/muscles, while Ben McKenzie bloated, bug eyed expressions just border on the Z-grade of comical.)

[Actionmage]

Had a dog barfing in the middle of the show, but  from what I was able to watch, it was interesting on various fronts.

 

Barbara luring away Jim:  It wouldn't surprise me if it was Theo's plan, as he asked Barbara to tell him all about Det. Gordon. Knowing that a 99% complete massacre at GCPD would cripple him, emotionally, seems to be a Galavan play. Also, that Jim is very susceptible to survivor's guilt? Essen's death? Lee dead/ in danger?  I would bet that Theo was hoping to devastate Gordon ( the city was gravy), but thanks to Barbara not up on the latest Jim news, Jim has Bruce and Alfred and Harvey to shore him up, in addition to quick-thinking Lee and very possibly, Ed.   

 

Also, with Theo publically fronting as An Upstanding Citizen, he can throw shade on how the Hero Cop just "happened" to be "safely" away from the massacre. How much luck can one cop have?  The  revolving door at GCPD and the leaving of the man who'd fired him a few times? His escaped BSC ex "lured" him away before the shooting started?   I think there is enough just sitting there for Theo to play with as he's a bit savvier about PR and not constrained by the truth. A total muddying of the water in regards to Jim just adds another layer to  the chaos Theo and Tabitha can "save" the city from.  Not that Barbara didn't enjoy having Jim beat by Aaron. If she'd wanted him dead, he'd have been dead.

 

In working this case, Ed may make things worse for himself. Hearing a kindred spirit calling to part of him will make the future harder for our Mr. Nygma. That flying tackle to save Kringle? Yeah, I'd be hovering around and wondering what I could do for him.

 

Is Bruce getting a third dad or is it still two, but he swapped out the cop for the tech-savvy capitalist? Is Harvey still the "fun uncle"? *g*  I always enjoy the longer Alfred scenes. Sean Pertwee getting his storytellin' on is an aural delight to me. Alfred telling tales of dudes that end up getting beat ( or worse) hasn't worn out it's welcome just yet, so I'm okay with that. 

 

Bruce begging Alfred? Mr. Mazouz is getting the right mix of just a kid and baby Batman, imo.  His concern and fear over Jim and that hug was just right, too. ( Though, Jim? You have a.. bit of blood...right...there. No, it's still there, all over you! Wash your damn face!)

 

Sarah Essen was the actual best damn cop on the force. Harvey respected her. Jim respected her. She was still full of story potential. Yet, she's dead now. I hope this brings Montoya and Allen out of hiding or Witness Protection or wherever they've been stashed.  The city needs good cops, even if they are knee-jerk-y and smug.  The upside to that would be Barbara playing with both exes' heads.  

 

I hope we get some Oswald, Selena, Ivy and Victor next week. Oswald doesn't have all his captains firmly in hand. Seeing him deal with the social and political side of being the Boss could be cool.  Plus, I miss Ivy. I hope she's okay.

[The Wild Sow]

 

Nicholson-esque.  Hamill and Ledger Jokers are more organized and a touch less impulsive.  Leto remains to be seen.

No love for Cesar Romero?  Yeah, I'm old.

 

Bruce, you may be able to fire your butler (temporarily, of course) but I don't think a 13 or 14-year-old can actually fire his guardian.

[Timetoread]

I think that this was my favorite episode.  It was VERY disturbing and stylistically felt the most like BATMAN (the comic) to me.

 

When I saw Essen all dolled up and ready for action, I knew she'd be dead sooner than later.  I also knew that there was going to be some segue into Jim Gordon the Commissioner.

 

I like Barbara full blown crazy and I don't see this as a character departure.  Old Babs was trying to be what everyone told her she SHOULD be - respectable with a respectable life and a respectable boyfriend.  A girl her parents would be proud of - but weren't. Not the raging, crazy, bisexual she really is.  It explains the drugs, shopping and escapism.  It took plastic surgery guy to torture her into dropping the facade and into killing her parents - the source of her pain.  I buy her "I'm free now" over the topness. But I think we saw the REAL Barbara (still crazy but less manic) when she stopped the guy from beating Jim to death.  Leading him out was part of the plan, but also in that plan was an ambush by the big guy.  Stopping him was Barbara.  Her rage at Jim, misguided though it is, was real too.  I think she did love Jim or at least appreciated that he was a good man who loved her, but he frustrated her so much because what he needed from her was impossible for her to give - because she's nuts. 

 

Now as for the Joker (I don't see how this ISN'T the Joker), I absolutely love him!  I don't see similarities to recent movie incarnations (which I haven't liked at all), nor do I look to those sources as parent material.  The Joker has been a character for a very long time and I find Jerome to be close to the comic Joker - who was thoroughly malevolent, demented and exceptionally violent - more scary than funny.  Indeed alot of the Joker art has him looking downright Satanic, and it used to threaten me with nightmares.  There were lots of iconic villains in that universe but Joker was Batman's nemesis - his true evil match.  If Bruce is now a tween, then Joker can't be too much older and Jerome is not (five years tops). 

 

I think this show has finally found its footing and I find both the nascent Penguin and Joker to be deliciously fun and sufficient to pull me in and hold me for a while.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Timetoread

[Demented Daisy]

As soon as Essen gave her speech, I said, "She'll be dead by the end of the season."  I was a little surprised that it happened by the end of the episode.

 

Meanwhile, at stately Wayne Manor....  Alfred annoys me.  I don't know what it is.  He makes too many decisions for Bruce, maybe?  

 

I love how this show tries to straddle all the different Batman styles, but Jerome is a little too campy for my taste.  His over-the-top antics are certainly Joker-esque, but he has none of the menace.  He reminds me of a toddler trying to entertain all the adults in the room.

 

I wondered if they're thinking of turning Barbara into Harley.  She's such a popular character that they can't ignore her, but it's way too soon, I think.  Maybe next season they can introduce Dr. Harleen Quinzel.  

[Biggie B]

No love for Cesar Romero?  Yeah, I'm old.

 

I've never seen the Batman movies nor read the comics, so my only frame of reference is the TV show, which I watched as a kid. So the only Joker I know is indeed Cesar Romero. At the end, when Jerome was shown on that video with blood on his face, it reminded me the outsized red lips of Joker's face - the makeup he wore. The actor's doing a great job with a wacko role!

 

I don't miss Fish. But for seeing Jada Pinkett Smith's name in the opening credits, I've forgotten about the character. She served a purpose - giving rise to Penguin - and now that's that.

 

Very glad that Harvey is back in action. I didn't buy it for a minute that he was content being a civilian.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Biggie B

[darkestboy]

I really liked this one.

 

The Maniax plot is great and Jerome really has emerged as a pretty fantastic threat for the show as well.

 

The character's demise I wished they had waited for a bit longer though.

 

Nice scenes with Barbara and Gordon in this one and I am liking Theo and Tabitha as villains too.

 

The lack of Oswald and Selina helped things, much as I enjoy the character. Nygma's story is being done with the wrong character IMO.

 

The Bruce/Alfred/Lucious plot was a little weaker compared to the other but still enjoyable though, 8/10

[Sakura12]

I see Jerome more as cartoon Joker, he was just crazy and over the top. And as the recap said, if he's not the Joker, then the Joker is just going to steal everything from him. I don't mind seeing babyJoker, I don't feel he needed to be a big mystery. He's a crazy psycho, his childhood doesn't much matter he would've turned out the way he did no matter what kind of life he had.

 

I like that they failed the first time with the cheerleaders then had to try again. Everyone does have to start somewhere even the bad guys.  

[Jediknight]

Cameron Monaghan is channeling Mark Hamill big time.  There are times where he sounds exactly like Hamill's Joker, especially his "Ladies and gentlemen, good evening!"  He's killing this role.

 

I still say he's not Joker though, he's just the inspiration.

 

I like that this season is about Gotham becoming a city where there's no hope, and the city that Bruce has to save and show people there is light at the end of the tunnel.  It shoves the city down it's path, and gives Bruce his true calling.

[PrincessMiMi]

I couldn't help but notice that Barbara's blonde ponytail, plus her off  white/black/touches of red (the leather  gloves!) outfit seems to echo the classic Harley Quinn costume. She's probably NOT going to become Harleen Quinzell-it's almost certainly  a headfake on the show's part -but it was an interesting touch IMO. 

[janie jones]

I might be in the minority, but I hate The Joker guy. I feel like he's trying too hard. I ended up fast forwarding through some of his scenes.

I don't dislike him, but I think I'll get tired of him, if he keeps appearing as much.

 

Bruce, you may be able to fire your butler (temporarily, of course) but I don't think a 13 or 14-year-old can actually fire his guardian.

I came here to post basically the same thing.  I wish they'd had a scene with Bruce confronting Alfred in Alfred's room about not having left yet, and Alfred telling him he wasn't going anywhere because that would make him a child abandoner, but that Bruce had better find a new servant because that dinner isn't going to cook itself.  Also, Bruce, thanks but no thanks on that letter of reference.  I really want to go to my job interviews with a recommendation from a junior high kid.

[The Kings Foot]

I love the direction they're going but I'm a little concerned at how fast they're moving. 

 

Getting rid of Loeb ? Fine. But also Essen. and the Mayor too ? And were on Earth is Montoya ? 

 

Also I wished cannibal guy could have stuck around for a bit. He was a good foil for Jerome to bounce off of . Also proto Black Mask could have stayed for one extra episode then get offed in the Police Station.

[Gregg247]

I like a good crime drama, I like melodramatic action, and I've enjoyed "Gotham" since the beginning, but last night's episode was too much for me.  

 

Cheerleaders doused in gasoline and almost set on fire, dock workers kidnapped and tossed off the roof of a building like so much garbage (and in a "comical" way, to boot), an entire police precinct being assassinated by criminals.....  I just don't find any of this entertaining at all.  

 

I can't even write it off as "comic book violence" because the villains didn't use a freeze ray to destroy a city, or blow up a nearby volcano, or some other over-the-top method.  They used real-life ways of causing mass casualties, and they got away with it (so far, at least).

 

I gave up on "The Walking Dead" because of the sense of hopelessness that pervades it, and I think I'm at that point with "Gotham", too.  The show last night really disturbed me, and that's not what I want from an entertainment program.

[Sakura12]

Yeah, I didn't get the firing scene either. Bruce can fire him from being the butler but he can't fire him being his legal guardian. Alfred really needs be a little more authoritative with Bruce. He's like 12 he doesn't get to make all the decisions, he's not legally old enough to do so. 

[Biggie B]

Yeah, I didn't get the firing scene either

 

I saw that as just a hissy fit. Bruce was pissed off and said the first thing that came out of his mouth. We know nothing could ever come of "firing" Alfred.

[Timetoread]

If he is the Joker it makes it ridiculous that a decade from now Bruce and Jim can't figure out the actual identity of the Joker.

 

IIRC, Joker suffers a disfiguring mishap involving a chemical vat at some point in the future, making his outside as scary as his inside.  They might not recognize "Jerome" at the offset.

[Blakeston]

I might be in the minority, but I hate The Joker guy. I feel like he's trying too hard. I ended up fast forwarding through some of his scenes.

I don't hate him, but I don't see how he brings anything to the role that we haven't seen from other Jokers.

I also don't see him as frightening. It was fine when he just seemed like a brat who was taking his first baby steps toward villainhood. But now he's terrorizing the city, and he takes out Essen? Not buying it.