S11.E07: Week 6

[Palomar]

If Kaitlyn doesn't pick Nick:

 

-Will Nick cry about "why did you have sex with me?" like he did with Andi?

-How does her F1 feel about K&N having sex for the world to know about?

 

If Kaitlyn does pick Nick:

 

-It would feel like the whole season was a sham....she already had something started with Nick...why even be the Bachelorette?

 

 

You could tell Nick was dying to tell the guys what happened.  Even Kaitlyn worried he would be kissing and telling.

[KateeBar]

I found this episode kind of physically unsettling to watch. I don't judge Kaitlyn for having sex, in general. I just find it uncomfortable watching her get so invested in Nick when he just so blatantly appears to be playing a game to get screen time. His resemblance to Syndrome from the The Incredibles is definitely influencing my opinion of him.

I think at least Shawn B. did get Nick's hints, which is why he went so nuts after drinking a couple gallons of Guinness. He did not come off well in his tirade, but I'm trying to hedge by assuming he had way too much to drink and his filter was impacted. He's seemed pretty normal in his edits to date.

[Dr Epi]

Just rewatched the part with Ian.  For someone who says that he is so "deep" and "self aware" he is anything but.  The truly self aware people I know never say that because they are aware of how that looks and how that makes others feel when they say it, especially in the context of calling someone else "surface."  And while I have known deep thinkers who read a lot, have deep philosophical discussions, are worldly, those that call themselves as such are pompous idiots.

 

 The mark of a person's character is how they handle adversity.  He had adversity here- being in a Bachelorette culture where he was not the star of the show or not being appreciated for what he thinks he has to offer.  But rather than bowing out gracefully, he chose to try to hurt Kaitlyn.  I cannot imagine what he would be like in a real relationship, professional or loving, when he feels hurt, justifiably or not, by the other.  I can imagine that he would try to hurt the other rather than try to understand the situation. Ladies- stay clear.

 

He may be a deep thinker but his well of compassion is very shallow.

[Ketzel]

My assumption of the Kaitlyn panic was that she didn't sleep with Shawn last week, despite spending the extra time with him.  She didn't hold back with Ick, so she's now afraid of his over-sharing with the world.  He does have a history of that.  

 

Shawn's distress was realizing that despite Kaitlyn telling him he was "the one", he didn't get the goodies the way Ick did.  

Possible, but judging from the way Kaitlyn's reacted to all of the guys she's physically attracted to, I think it's not so likely. It's clear she's into Shawn physically, so I have a hard time picturing her spending six hours in off-camera privacy with him, resisting his advances and just chatting. Far more likely they had sex  and Shawn was left believing the Final Rose was a done deal for him. (It's hard to tell if Shawn and Kaitlyn's private time happened  before or after Nick arrived, but if it was after, that would be another reason Kaitlyn might want to reassure him that their "connection"  was "real" to her and he didn't need to be threatened by Nick.) Whereupon, Kaitlyn succumbs to a half bottle of Jamison's and Nick's powerful seductiveness and is left in a panic lest Nick spill the beans.

 

It would be hard for Shawn not to figure it out when Nick arrives in the morning wearing the same clothes he left in and spouting the same lines about "just talking" with Kaitlyn that I have no doubt Shawn was prompted to use with the other guys after his overnighter with Kaitlyn.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Ketzel

[leighdear]

It's clear she's into Shawn physically, so I have a hard time picturing her spending six hours in off-camera privacy with him, resisting his advances and just chatting

Excellent point.  I was giving her more credit for self-restraint than we have actual evidence of.  So Shawn recognized the canned answers Ick was giving about his time with Kaitlyn, because he used them himself. 

[Bobcatkitten]

Katelyn is free to do whatever - and whomever - she wants. But I'm also allowed to find it distasteful, just like I did with some of the Bachelors who did it. 

[Andromeda]

Yeah its painfully obvious that she had sex with Shawn in San Antonio and that's why she freaked out about the possibility of Nick telling about their encounter in Ireland.    I'm actually kinda surprised that the San Antonio sex was edited out but I guess it didn't fit the storyboard.

 

As for the other guys, good thing they are enjoying the free travel and booze as now they are just the greek chorus for the Shawn/Nick show.  Luckily it looks like  only Jared is emotionally invested so no big deal for the likes of Tanner, Ben Z, JJ, Joe, etc.  

Yes, it was really obvious last night that Shawn -- and Shawn alone -- was disturbed by Nick's "hints" about his time with Kaitlyn, and later about not getting the group date rose (shades of Britt). Even Tanner made a crack about "Why am I even still here?" during the eulogy. He and the rest know they're cannon fodder, or rather placeholders until the end. The editing doesn't even try to hide it. Since Kaitlyn doesn't seem to have one-on-one talks with these guys during group dates, it could be the editors don't have much to work with to make us pretend there's any connection or that the other guys even care. Nick, Shawn, and Jared (a trailing third place) are the only ones that matter at this point.

 

I don't mean to minimize Ben Zs discomfort about the wake but didn't his mother die when he was 14 years old? And isn't he 30-something now? I'll bet there were other guys on that date who had had to attend funerals/wakes of loved ones more recently than he did. Time he got some professional therapy to deal with his lingering grief.

Woah. I thought it was like last year! Yeah, that's all Ben Z has, so sounds like they decided it was his story.

[Iwillnotacceptrose]

I feel like this over produced, overly dramatic season is the producers' one big F U to us viewers for demanding Kaitlyn become the bachelorette.

[Lawgiver]

I'm pretty sure they are staying at the Royal Marine Hotel in Dun Laoghire. I stayed there three years ago, it is a very nice hotel. At the time, there was no wifi in the rooms, only the lobby. I complained to a random guest who was working on his laptop in the lobby and it ended up being Will Forte.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Lawgiver

[ljenkins782]

 

I got so much joy out of watching that scene where Nick returns post-coitus and tells the guys about his date.  The passive-aggressiveness on both sides was tremendous. Joe with his "Well, you know, she also took 'extra time' with Shawn" and Nick throwing the "intimate, personal" part of their date in everyone's face, when everyone clearly knows what he means by "talking on the couch."  The subtext was amazing and rivaled anything I've ever seen happen between teenage girls.

Ha, I did too. I actually loved the way Joe slipped that little tidbit about Shawn in without any emotion whatsoever, so passive-aggressively effective. Nick was being deliberately coy and clearly wanted to get a rise of someone, but sadly for him, he made his big morning-after entrance to the house only to encounter one of the guys who appears to care the very least about the whole thing.

 

I get the feeling from Joe that he's happy to just hang out in the house and accept the free travel and booze, so he's not even a little bit concerned about Shawn's or Nick's relationship with Kaitlyn, but likes Shawn more. 

 

 

First of all, I totally didn't understand why they included that clip of Brady and Britt and her mom.  It was so weird.  Did they do it to highlight there is no relationship or do the powers that be think there is one and this will somehow make all Britt fans super happy?

I got more and more annoyed every time they previewed the Britt scene before the commercial breaks. Knowing this season's propensity for cliffhangers, I clock-watch to see how much drama we're going to get this week and how much will be left hanging and the inclusion of an [uTTERLY POINTLESS] Britt update throws off the count. 

 

I'm really baffled as to why they are continuing to update the viewers on this "relationship." Why on earth would anyone care?? This particular clip was extra bizarre, it was like they're trying to do a mini-Bachelorette and this was Britt's "hometown visit" except that no one is following their "story" and no one cares. 

 

 

I thought when they went on the group date that she actually has a pretty good group of guys.  They were a good mix, and seem to be decent, nice people.  I loved a couple of the guys jokes at the wake...and even though it was odd, it was better than some of the other dates.

I liked that group too, they all seem fun to hang out with. Actually, I like everyone left except Nick and JJ and even JJ hasn't been too bad recently. His edit is particularly curious, they made him such a hardcore villain for 3 to 4 weeks and then he faded completely and utterly into the background.

 

 

I'm starting to get really mad at the way they're running the show this year.  How many times did we see teasers of Shawn busting into Kaitlyn's room with the voice over saying, "I thought we had something together?"  Now it appears he said that line to one of the camera men. I sit up for two hours waiting for confrontations that are promised in the beginning and never happen and every little bit of drama is dragged out over two or three shows.

That is irritating, particularly the way they structure the teasers so it looks like it's a conversation between 2 pivotal players and then it turns out to be some other random person involved instead (like when I was hoping she flipped on JJ and it turned out to be that random confrontation with Kupah.) 

 

 

I really, really like Tanner.  He seems like he's probably the smartest guy there yet friendly with all the others and with a delightful self-deprecating humor.  Take note Ian, that's how it's done.

I love Tanner, I was so happy he made it through. Clearly he's perpetually on the bubble and not only does he know it, the other guys know it (based on them cracking up knowingly at the final part of his eulogy.) 

 

At this point in the show, it seems wrong that a couple guys (Tanner and Joe and maybe JJ?) haven't gotten a single one-on-one, while Jared seems to be winning the fancy, romantic date lottery over and over. 

 

 

I did notice she never said "we had sex" though.

I thought her saying something along the lines of  "how would I have felt if Chris and Britt had had sex?" was the confirmation of what happened. 

 

 

I read that somewhere last week (a CH interview?), that Kaitlyn was so into one guy only that it was like "game over, show over" so they brought in Nick. Makes sense because they're like that.

I could see that being true because she really hasn't made any secret of the front-runners, but this season and Farmer Chris' Bachelor are my first experiences with the show. Do the leads usually do a better job making the remaining contestants feel like they're in the race? 

[Madding crowd]

Storms in Chicago cut out parts of the show for me, but I thought the wake was distasteful. Irish wakes are  done as a point of honor to the deceased, not as a joke.. Just like with the dancing, Kaitlyn and the producers went to Ireland to mock their culture, not to enjoy it. It doesn't matter to me when Ben Z's mom died, some people are just not cool with mocking and pretending someone is dead. I did think the guys made the most of it and did some funny/original eulogies.

 

I didn't need to hear Kaitlyn moaning or saying "I'd like to get ahold of you" to Nick. Is that supposed to be sexy talk? Yuk. I don't think the normal sex rules apply here either. On this show, you should be getting to know all of the remaining guys, and not having sex until you are down to the final two in the rose ceremony. Of course, many of the leads do not follow this, but then they can't complain about the contestants having bad feelings. 

 

I don't find Shawn attractive at all, but he seems to have fallen for Kaitlyn, and just like I felt for Britt in Chris' season, it is hard to casual when the lead tells you he/she is falling for you and intimacy has taken place. I really don't know if Nick is playing her or if he is sincere, but I still don't like him.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Madding crowd

[truthaboutluv]

When Shawn say it, its classy. When Nick say it, well everything Nick say is bad.

Even with Shawn possessiveness and slut shamming, people are like poor Shawn. I don't get it

 

 

You and me both...you and me both. But let's face it, people have been calling Nick creepy since Andi's season, long before the ATFR and I never got it then either. Not only did Shawn act like a possessive caveman, he made some comment at one point to the producer he was speaking to about not wanting to stick around for FS where Kaitlyn would "bang two other guys..." Nice, very nice. But Nick is the classless one not keeping his mouth shut even though he clearly did not tell the guys what happened.

 

The conversation between the guys felt very staged to me - as if they've been told by the producers what to ask and as if they've been going round and round in the topic for a while.

 

Multiple former contestants have confirmed throughout the years that the producers specifically ask and prod them to talk about their dates to the other contestants because duh, makes for drama which is all these people are after. So I don't doubt for a second, it was set up for Nick to talk about the date and let's face it, I'm sure the guys would have noticed he didn't come back to the hotel room all night so he couldn't say they just had dinner and he came back. Clearly they spent hours together and all he said was that they hung out on her couch and talked and that felt intimate and personal to him. Sure some of the guys may call bullshit on the idea that they only talked but that's on them.

[Wings]

 

Good catch by the poster who said the morning after balcony scene was most likely shot in San Antonio.  I thought something was off about that shot, but I didn't put two and two together.  The exterior shot of the hotel where they were staying was of a rather old stately european hotel.  The balcony was rather stark white modern with tons of sun.  It did not match with that hotel's exterior or interior for that matter.  So, I tend toward the theory that it was shot in San Antonio and that she did have an evening of important intimacy (is this a producer provided word?) with Shawn. Also the editor provided word strips?  Who knows if that is what she said in San Antonio or in an interview somewhere else?   Such editing monkeying and fakeiity fake dramaz this season.

 

I re watched a balcony scene. There may be another one.  Her hotel in Ireland was white.  She was wearing an off white woven robe over a black t-shirt.  She had no mic on and was talking to a producer.  This is clearly the morning after she slept with Nick.  No white lace dress here. 

 

The concert with Jared was in a church also, probably the same one.  It is closed and rented out for events. I think this is a good idea.  It it is no longer being used as a church, why not?   

 

When Shawn showed up at Kaitlyn's door after her date with Jared, her hair was a mess.  So there was probably a heavy petting session with him and Shawn probably reached that same conclusion. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by wings707

[Padma]

I hate the phrase "slut shaming". It's like its not okay to criticize a woman for casually sleeping with someone regardless of the circumstances, even if she actually -is- acting kind of slutty, per Kaitlyn.

 

I mean, first she's on a show where other b-ettes don't do this. Why? Not because it cheapens you, but because you are there to "date" 25...12...8...other men and it really disrespects them (especially if you keep talking with them about your "connection" to each and every one of them and making out.)   

 

Also, since it seems very likely that she slept with Shawn in San Antonio--and she knows how she had to convince him to trust her, how much her commitment meant to him--it's a really mean thing to do to sleep with Nick a few days later (probably not telling him about Shawn either--i.e. not giving him the chance to decide if he wants to me "one of several" or not. He probably thought he was special to her, too. That's kind of slutty, imo, especially when you're on a tv and dating/leading on a bunch of men.)

 

So, no, I don't respect Kaitlyn. (Also remembering how she was with Chris and even said somewhere she wouldn't have liked it, might have even left, if she thought he -had- slept with Britt. So...what's her excuse for being even -more- disrespectful now that she's the lead?)

 

She's so stupid and her interactions with the men are so very boring. If she can't talk about some drama related to their feelings for her, she seems to have no conversation topics at all.  Ian was an ass, but I can't say that I disagree with any of his points. Tony was right, too. (What makes me think they'll cancel the MTA? I think even The Bachelor won't want their lead to look -that- bad.)

 

As for the moans and groans (ew), I'm annoyed at the show for that. (And no noise from Nick? Really, editors?) You know they didn't wear microphones to bed and its just common sense to take them off and put them in a drawer or something. But I wouldn't put it past the producers at all to have miked her room--just in case (or maybe specifically after missing out in San Antonio). That is gross. Also gross and so tacky to use the audio for the show. Someone backstage really, really doesn't like this girl. (I don't either, but I wouldn't have done that. Playing tapes of her private moment--letting her know when she sees this that you--plural--listened to ALL of her time with Nick--that's just disgusting.)

[backformore]

I don't mean to minimize Ben Zs discomfort about the wake but didn't his mother die when he was 14 years old? And isn't he 30-something now? I'll bet there were other guys on that date who had had to attend funerals/wakes of loved ones more recently than he did. Time he got some professional therapy to deal with his lingering grief.

 

Sure, but going to a funeral/wake for a relative is different from a funeral for your MOTHER.    If you have a parent die before you have a chance to grow up, it alters your view of death.  

[JenE4]

I don't think that Kaitlyn and Shawn slept together. When she didn't know that she was being filmed on the balcony, she was going on and on about what if Nick tells them what happened and how she would feel if Chris had slept with Britt. To me, this seemed like a unique situation for her because, otherwise, wouldn't she be worried that either one of them would tell? Also, while Shawn was upset that Nick had extra "talking time" with Kaitlyn, I don't think he had the slightest impression that they slept together. I'm sure in his mind they did less than whatever he and Kaitlyn did, as he's "the one." Shawn flipped out about Jared getting the rose, not about Nick. When he was talking to the producer that he "trusts," he even said that he's not going to wait around for her to sleep with two other guys in the FS, so it seemed like maybe he thought she might eventually do that the way that she was also giving these other guys attention--but that's still weeks away. The issue is that I don't think Kaitlyn is going to realize that Shawn is pulling a Britt over the group date rose and she's going to assume Nick told him that they slept together. I think, if anything, she's going to say something to Shawn to out herself. Then again, as Judy pointed out, the whole barging in with the exclamation about how she ruined what they had was audio directed toward the producer, so it could be very likely that nothing more comes to light..until the guys see this show. But then why is EVERYONE crying in the preview?! Even Cupcake was pulling a Mesnick crying on a balcony--unless he just gets sent home. 

 

It sounds like I'm one of the only people not down on Ian. I think he speaks the truth--even the parts about him being too smart for this show and getting better women than Kaitlyn. Think about the SHEER NUMBER of men who all confronted Kaitlyn about her not seeming like she's There for the Right Reasons with how she's acting toward them and the other guys: Ian, Tony, Kupah, Clint, even Shawn now with barging into her room to confront her about Jared. I think there have been others who have said something, too, but it just wasn't as dramatic--oh, Joshua about how Kaitylyn was handling Nick, too! If it was just one guy who thought she was acting a bit Wrong Reasons, then okay, blame the guy. But we have a half dozen men who have all basically said the same thing! That's unprecedented--and it makes you have to look at the common denominator here, which is Kaitlyn (or perhaps an "Unreal"-type producer egging everyone on).

 

Britt, your mom can't "friend zone" your boyfriend on your behalf. You are a grown-ass woman (TM Chris Bukowski). It was like she was 14 and thought she was in love but her mom's like "I'm not driving you and your friend to the movies!" And then she needs to pass Brady a note in homeroom telling them that her mom won't let her have a boyfriend. Oh, wait. Kids nowadays don't pass notes. I mean, she'll Snapchat him a frowny face. 

[CaughtOnTape]

I don't really have a problem with Kaitlyn sleeping with Nick.  Sure I think she's stupid and vapid, but she's an adult who made a decision.  These men and women on this show seem to forget something....they are not exclusive with the Bachelor/ette.  The Bachelor/ette can sleep with whomever they want to sleep with.  That's called dating.  That's how it works when you haven't had the exclusivity discussion.  Shawn knew what he was getting into when he came on the show.  He's competing with 25 other guys.  What's the difference if he'd met Kaitlyn off this show and started dating her knowing she was dating other guys?  If you want to make sure the person you're dating isn't sleeping with other people....make it exclusive and don't go on a reality show where you know full well the person you're dating is dating other people as well.

 

That's why this show is ridiculous and over the top.  They have no claim over her.  The way they are acting and breaking down when they find out is crazy.  What do you expect?  It's the point of the damn show for Christ's sake....

 

If I were Nick, I'd tell her to take a flying leap after how many times she said she regretted it and it was a mistake last night.  He's no peach, but damn....that's one helluvan ego bash.  

[pitchy]

I really, really like Tanner.  He seems like he's probably the smartest guy there yet friendly with all the others and with a delightful self-deprecating humor.  Take note Ian, that's how it's done.  

 

Tanner reminds me a little of Ben Affleck without the hostile sulking of Affleck.  He has a serious face but also a nice sense of irony.  I think he's in it for the camaraderie and travel (and we know he's the Bachelor Historian) so has no out-sized emotions to show.

Edited June 24, 2015 by pitchy

[PercyR]

ETA: Maybe I've been watching too much UnReal, but during the balcony scene, it seemed to me almost as if Kaitlyn originally felt okay about hooking up with Nick, but the producer kind of talked her into feeling bad. 

 

Definitely felt the same here. Whoever she was talking to obviously put the idea in her head that things could rapidly go South if the other guys found out about her indiscretion.  Also, as a side point, am I the only one who remembers that from the original season preview, we heard production repeatedly hammering on what I can only assume was Kaitlyn's door, asking for her to come out and her responding that she would be a minute? Never saw any of THAT i notice.

[ByTor]

When he was talking to the producer that he "trusts," he even said that he's not going to wait around for her to sleep with two other guys in the FS, so it seemed like maybe he thought she might eventually do that the way that she was also giving these other guys attention--but that's still weeks away.

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but it seems to me the fact that he said other guys implies that he suspected something happened.

[leighdear]

3-4 different guys in 6 months.  Healthy to some, indiscriminate to others.  Every woman has her comfort zone, so it sounds like Kaitlyn has found hers. 

 

Meanwhile, I agree that the guys do seem to be enjoying their time together.   And I agree that JJ seems to have fulfilled his plot-point and can now be sent to the back of the class with the other unrecognizables. 

[Andromeda]

Everybody has their own opinions, and this is just mine:  Kaitlyn is a girl who loves some drama and throws herself into situations where it can occur.   The producers knew this when they chose her.  (I don't believe the contestants chose her for one single moment.)   She might not plan the drama, but she certainly doesn't use any foresight to avoid it either.  And OK, this is just me, but women screaming in "fear" and then giggling and simpering are beyond annoying.  Beyond.  You've got at BIRD  IN FLIGHT tattooed on your arm!   Maybe men like this silliness, but think what it's like when you are 45 or 50 and no longer a darling damsel in distress.   To me, and I know, I know, I am horribly unsympathetic to fears about snakes, birds, spiders, whatever, address your fear and don't make it everybody else's burden to bear.

Can you imagine putting up with that every day for years and years? Unable to cross a park or a public square or visit a beach without that shrill screaming and freakout? No, thank you!

 

I agree she's a drama magnet. She thrives on it. I'm just surprised we didn't see that side of her on the Bachelor, but Britt had her beat on that show.

[Shibori]

When Ben Z cleared the room and started telling Kaitlyn why he didn't want to be funny in that situation, you could see the wheels spinning in her head and her expression went from smirk, to giggle, to complete confusion. She had no idea how to handle the situation without cracking a joke. She's really not that bright.

I can't speak for Ireland, but here in the states a lot of Catholic churches have been sold. We have a restaurant/bar in Pittsburgh with vats and brewing equipment on the altar. I bought a small church myself and converted it into a house. The buildings are deconsecrated before they're sold. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school, but I'd rather see the buildings used for something (though perhaps not the filming of the Bachelorette) than to have them fall into disrepair. After awhile you get over the creepiness of knowing weddings and funerals happened in your kitchen.

[Alapaki]

I don't know the logistics of renting a Catholic Church in Ireland. But I DO know that there were untold numbers of Novenas prayed for St. Patrick to return and drive THESE snakes out.

[Wings]

Sure, but going to a funeral/wake for a relative is different from a funeral for your MOTHER.    If you have a parent die before you have a chance to grow up, it alters your view of death.  

 

 

My father died when I was 13.  My view of death developed as I matured and read things.  As a kid you really don't have a clear idea of what you think death is all about.  My mother died when I was 30. 

 

I would have had zero problem doing the Irish wake!  It was fun and that was not a real coffin either which lent itself to the whimsy.  

[violetr]

I hate the phrase "slut shaming". It's like its not okay to criticize a woman for casually sleeping with someone regardless of the circumstances, even if she actually -is- acting kind of slutty, per Kaitlyn.

 

 

Because it's not okay. In my book it's not okay to criticize a woman for whom she choose to sleep with and when she chooses to do it, as long as she's not deceiving someone she's committed herself to exclusively. If Kaitlyn is truly trying to find a husband or parter, I say more power to her. Hell, even if she's not, more power to her. She's not exclusive yet with any of these men. 

[Bugs Meany]

(What makes me think they'll cancel the MTA? I think even The Bachelor won't want their lead to look -that- bad.)

 

God, I think you're right. Usually TMTA/TWTA is about confronting the season's villain, but is there one? Is it Nick? It can't be Clint. (That was overstated, and lasted one week.) This TMTA would be about confronting Kaitlyn.

 

 

Also, as a side point, am I the only one who remembers that from the original season preview, we heard production repeatedly hammering on what I can only assume was Kaitlyn's door, asking for her to come out and her responding that she would be a minute? Never saw any of THAT i notice.

 

What about the guy running butt-ass-naked on a golf course?? Everything is such a tease on this show.

[cinsays]

Wings707 -

 

   My boyfriend died when I was 16 and that was my first funeral that I can remember (besides my grandmother's when I was 4 that I only vaguely had an idea of what was happening).

   I would not have liked the idea of this wake as one of the other posters has said.

   We all react differently to situations and just because you would have enjoyed it even with your experience does not diminish the reaction of another person based on their history.

  I think Kaitlynn is unattractive physically and in personality and those big old lips are just ridiculous (maybe she needs to go on Botched when this fiasco is over?).  If she was dumb enough to actually think her sexcapade with Ick would not be taped and shown to the world, well, too bad for her.  Shawn and Jared are much too good for her, well they all are except for smarmy Ick and I think they belong together.

 

[Stinamaia]

Because it's not okay. In my book it's not okay to criticize a woman for whom she choose to sleep with and when she chooses to do it, as long as she's not deceiving someone she's committed herself to exclusively. If Kaitlyn is truly trying to find a husband or parter, I say more power to her. Hell, even if she's not, more power to her. She's not exclusive yet with any of these men. 

And I assume you apply the same standard for men.

 

People do what they do, and others are going to have opinions favorable and unfavorable.   Bachelors have gotten lots of criticism for their actions on this show too.   

[ByTor]

 Bachelors have gotten lots of criticism for their actions on this show too.   

True, I don't see a ton of compliments flying Bob's way.

[anony mouse]

Tanner reminds me a little of Ben Affleck without the hostile sulking of Affleck. He has a serious face but also a nice sense of irony. I think he's in it for the camaraderie and travel (and we know he's the Bachelor Historial) so has no out-sized emotions to show.

I hadn't been paying much attention to him, but his cheeky eulogy made me sit up and take notice. I like him a lot - I'd be happy with him as the next Bachelor, if he kept in in the same vein. I thought prior to the season that Kaitlyn might have succeeded in bringing some levity to the show and participating in things in a tongue in cheek manner, but that's not been the case. If Tanner is able to walk the line between having fun and making fun, I want to see more of him.

[Andromeda]

I could see that being true because she really hasn't made any secret of the front-runners, but this season and Farmer Chris' Bachelor are my first experiences with the show. Do the leads usually do a better job making the remaining contestants feel like they're in the race? 

Yes. Or at least the editors do a better job making it seem like it's a real horserace. Back in the day, before spoilers ruined it, fans would analyze previews and speculate and guess and predict who would be the chosen one. There was suspense in it. And ABC hosted a "Rose game" where you could select who you thought would stay and go each week. 

 

What about the guy running butt-ass-naked on a golf course?? Everything is such a tease on this show.

Yeah, where's buck naked guy? I demand the naked guy NOW! Well, at least we know Nick wasn't in Kaitlyn's room when Shawn showed up to confront her. I knew that would be a fake, but my husband actually half expected to see him fleeing naked across the grass, like a scene from a sitcom. LOL.

 

On slut-shaming, the reason it's a thing now is for decades -- or forever -- there was a double standard in society, where women had to remain pure and virginal, but men could sleep around and not "ruin their reputations." As a consequence, there are many, many more derogatory terms about "loose women," "sluts," "skanks," "whores" (and all the variations thereof) than there are for men (um, gigolo? Horndog?) -- most of which are almost compliments -- like "player."

Edited June 23, 2015 by Andromeda

[MakeMeLaugh]

We really need to be able to inspect buck naked guy very closely from almost all angles.

Kaitlyn isn't a slut or a skank but Show has allowed her to exhibit certain behaviors and then publicized them that might lead less discerning viewers to jump to this conclusion. I mean, if she quacks like a duck.... (Yes I have been waiting several weeks to slip that duck reference in and she finally made it possible)

[Gregg247]

I know we saw a lot of Britt and Brady playing at the beach a few episodes ago, but are they actually living on the beach now?  They both looked so scuzzy and dirty at Britt's Mom's house, that I thought maybe they just stopped by to take their bi-weekly shower and get all the sticky salt water off of them.

 

They both looked so nasty!  I'll bet Mom went for the Fabreeze as soon as they left.

[Padma]

Wings707 -

 

   My boyfriend died when I was 16 and that was my first funeral that I can remember (besides my grandmother's when I was 4 that I only vaguely had an idea of what was happening).

   I would not have liked the idea of this wake as one of the other posters has said.

   We all react differently to situations and just because you would have enjoyed it even with your experience does not diminish the reaction of another person based on their history.

 

That's the thing. I lost a parent when I was a child but oddly, it was the death of someone else 14 years ago, already an adult, that made me relate to Ben's reaction. That "wake" would have made me feel sad, too. I feel each loss...person...way of grieving is different. What bugged me about that was that the producers already knew that Ben was still very upset about his mother's death. And I believe (based on this show's history of similar stunts) that they put him in that situation to intentionally stir up his sad feelings. That's pretty rotten...again. (Also rotten, imo, was playing the audio of Kaitlyn with Nick. We've never had that with any FS date...or with Chris and Britt. So why now? Again, very mean to do, as if this season isn't already embarrassing enough.)

 

As for "slut shaming" if its wrong to make Kaitlyn feel bad over casual sex, then Juan Pablo should get a redemption arc for his FS time with Andi and for his time in the ocean with Clare. And people should definitely stop slut-shaming Bob since all he seemed to do (as far as we knew) was kiss every woman in sight. If it's okay for Kaitlyn then its okay for everyone. (My issue is more that it seems disrespectful to the others--like I thought Chris,imo, sleeping with Britt was. But if she's ready to own it and be honest and just tell them all, "I'll sleep with Nick or Shawn or whomever...fun for me, whoo-hoo!" and take the consequences (which would probably everyone leaving), well, okay, then.  I just don't see her doing that. 

[Kbilly]

I guess she was just too in the moment to care.

 

If by "in the moment" you mean "drinking whiskey all day long" then I completely agree. Why not just cast Nick and have him be a surprise on the limo night? Because bringing him on like this and being favorited out the gate is just really messing with THE JOURNEY. Because they wouldn't bring him on just to come in second again right??! 

 

I blame Arie for that initial PASSIONATE WALL KISS for us having to be tortured by someone trying to recreate it every season.

Dr. Cupcake, DDS also has a mauve suit?!

 

With piping! Seriously that was nuts! It made him look even more like Johnny Depp version of Willy Wonka than normal.

 

A lot of Guinness seemed to be going to waste and I did not approve. 

 

The Britt/Brady thing was so pointless in that they kept previewing "You've got a nice new friend" to show us "You've got a nice new friend" and nothing more. That was the only useable footage they had? Yikes.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Kbilly

[Alison]

It still baffles me that a show about dating/marriage/romance tries to be so chaste. The Bachelor/ette is dating multiple people at once. Dating = physical and emotional connection. Physical connection = kissing and sex. I would never get engaged (or TV engaged) to someone I hadn't slept with. Maybe Kaitlyn's approach to casual sex isn't everyone's cup of tea, but she's a grown woman having sex with adult, consenting men. I fail to see why it's such an issue, and no, she's not a slut.

*steps off feminist soapbox*

[ByTor]

I certainly hope that the adult consenting men are using condoms.  And if she has been with more than one, I hope she's not leading any of them to believe that she's doing so with them exclusively, because IMO consent includes knowing what you are getting into.

 

Edited because "not doing so" and "doing so" are kind of different!

Edited June 24, 2015 by ByTor

[ramble]

His (Nick's) resemblance to Syndrome from the The Incredibles is definitely influencing my opinion of him.

Ha! I see it now & the jerkishness of the two is similar as well.

I'm finding myself more & more resentful of Britt, Brady & their stinky journey. One of the things I enjoy about the Bachelorette seasons is the goofy extras they show of the guys during the end credits. Britt & Brady (Bratt?) are stealing my Bachelor joy!

[Dr Epi]

I really wish that they would allow the men to give interviews after they have left the show, rather than having to wait to TMTA.  Sort of like how Survivor does it.  We can hear from the contestants that are off the show before the final tribal council.

 

Sigh.  I would like to know what the M think now, rather than waiting.

[JudyObscure]

I've given some thought to the "slut-shaming," thing, too, and I think I agree with Padma and Sinamaia. I have to ask myself if I would think it was tacky if one of The Bachelors did it and in this case, I would. Catherine and Emily both said that Sean and Brad respectively gave them a secret hint in the beginning that they were "the one." It might have been something as simple as "You don't have to worry about anything I do on the dates." Once that impression is given then it's pretty skanky to go have sex with someone else. I would have been disgusted with Sean if he had made subtle promises to Catherine and then slept with one of the other girls.

This isn't just getting heated up on a date and taking it to the next level, back at someone's apartment. It's a very special, televised situation. The men are encouraged to "open up," and allow themselves to fall in love. I think it's then just not fair to go past a certain point for the duration of the show, at least until Fantasy Suite time when it's almost over. In real life they wouldn't have to sit next to the guy who slept with their girlfriend at breakfast.

[b2H]

All I know is this:  the 'wake' date was only one of a long list of stupid, inappropriate, poorly thought-out, so-called dates that these useless producers have come up with.  Let's be honest:  if they're trying to talk more people into coming on to the show, then tell me exactly what the selling point is for the 'fun dates and excursions' the candidate could go on?  Especially in light of how the producers prey on any character or emotional weaknesses that might be revealed?
 

It's no wonder they can't get anyone of substance on the show anymore.  The jig is up.

[bantering]

Have contestants in the past directly told the camera they did it with someone? I assume stuff has happened in the suites right before the engagement day, but usually people seem to be mum about what went on in the bedroom. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by bantering

[Padma]

Andi "outing" Juan Pablo as having had sex with her in the FS--and then blasting/blindsiding him on camera for not showing enough interest in her afterwards...(oh, irony!) is the first time I remember anyone actually admitting they had sex on the show. 

[Bugs Meany]

Andi "outing" Juan Pablo as having had sex with her in the FS--and then blasting/blindsiding him on camera for not showing enough interest in her afterwards...(oh, irony!) is the first time I remember anyone actually admitting they had sex on the show. 

 

She did? I remember that was assumed, but not any actual admission of her part, just the usual vague FS talk.

[bantering]

Andi "outing" Juan Pablo as having had sex with her in the FS--and then blasting/blindsiding him on camera for not showing enough interest in her afterwards...(oh, irony!) is the first time I remember anyone actually admitting they had sex on the show. 

 

 

Thanks.

 

I think it was the fact that she told the camera that she had sex with someone I found more surprising than the fact that she actually did it. I wonder if the producers told her to explain what happened, because I think the criticism of sleeping with people on a tv show could probably have been avoided if she had just not told anybody. Judging by the way people cry and look like they're headed for a nervous breakdown the next day when they're rejected, I assume stuff has gone on, but rarely people seem to to out of their way to confirm that sex did happen (but I could be wrong as I haven't watched every season.)

Edited June 23, 2015 by bantering

[gator12]

It why I don't get why Andi was so mad at Nick for doing the same thing she did to Juan Pablo or why her Stans whine about Nick while praising her

[Palomar]

The men are encouraged to "open up," and allow themselves to fall in love. I think it's then just not fair to go past a certain point for the duration of the show, at least until Fantasy Suite time when it's almost over. In real life they wouldn't have to sit next to the guy who slept with their girlfriend at breakfast.

 

 

In the past it was assumed it was an even playing ground up until the FS and then whatever happened in the FS was not really spoken about. It was assumed that the B/Bette would probably sleep with their intended or perhaps (ala Andi) the two contenders.  Whatever.  I don't think anyone thinks it is a big deal that they had sex, but that it is being filmed for TV and that her other suitors will find out.  (Kaitylyn even told her parents not to watch this episode according to US...what does that say?)  I would not be surprised if some of the guys emotionally involved with her would leave after hearing what happened. No, she is not exclusive but it still could be thought of as a betrayal to them.  Of course the trips and TV experience may overrule those thougts!

[leighdear]

For me, the actual sexual activity isn't the issue. She could bang every one of them in rotation on the bottling floor of the Guinness factory and I wouldn't care.  I have difficulties when a person's words directly contradict their behavior and vice versa. And not as a result of creative editing.

 

Please don't tell me you "own" your behavior, then hysterically state that what you did was a "huge mistake".  Please don't tell me you are "comfortable" with the way you are, then state how uncomfortable you are.  And please don't tell me how important honesty is to you when your next words are absolute lies.  These behaviors bother me more than who's doing whom.

 

Kaitlyn's sexuality has been her "theme" from the moment she stepped out of the limo on Chris' season. It's defined her actions and conversations in almost every way on both shows, and she's allowed it. Why should she care about how she's perceived if she owns it and Is comfortable with it? 

 

I think she's just doing damage control as directed by production.  I don't think she really cares what people think.

[saber5055]

Last night all network programming was preempted here for coverage of impending storms and tornadoes, so I missed this episode in its entirety. (Also missed Ninja Warrior!) So I watched Kimmel (tornadoes had moved east by then) because he always gives a recap of that night's episode. So I got to see a clip showing the door Kaitlyn and Nick were behind -- with mics still on so Kimmel emphasized their "personal" talk. Then a clip of Harrison "punking" the guys with Kaitlyn in a coffin.

 

WTH?

 

Then reading here, I am really glad for not being able to watch this week. Everything about this show and the discussion it gets afterward turns my stomach, it's all in such bad taste. Maybe the old fairy tale Bachelorette was just that, a fairy tale, but it didn't make me want to barf after watching. Now it just makes me feel ... unclean.

Edited June 23, 2015 by saber5055