S11.E04: Week 3

[lids]

JJ has Kanye cheeks... and apparently the same douchebag entitlement Kanye has. He's a shoe in for Bachelors in Paradise.

I think what happened in this series is that the producers tried to infuse a little of the BIP brand into The Bachelorette since BIP is popular. It's seriously not working.

I'm guessing the reason they aren't ending the episodes with rose ceremonies is because there are not enough men to eliminate and therefore no suspense. Kaitlyn is bleeding bachelors. Every episode about 2 leave. The rose ceremonies don't matter after that.

There were a few guys this episode that I had never seen before in my life. Ryan? Ben H? They got out of the limos in the first episode?

I am really only watching future episodes to concentrate on Nick. I really need to understand what all these women see in him. I'm going to focus! I'm not going to let a smug snicker or a toss of his curly locks throw me off. This man is an evil genius and may have figured out the franchise like how others have figured out how to count cards in poker. He must be stopped for the future of mankind's enjoyment of this show!

[jumper sage]

I am really only watching future episodes to concentrate on Nick. I really need to understand what all these women see in him. I'm going to focus! I'm not going to let a smug snicker or a toss of his curly locks throw me off.

Production plant?  That's my guess.  He is not even good looking.

 

Back to the episode - What the hell was that?  Is it just me or are they giving the girl (I don't even know her name) a very bad edit?

[Iwillnotacceptrose]

I never post but had to get this off my chest: I'm absolutely appalled at last night's show!  It was by far the WORST episode/dates I've ever seen from this franchise.  I'm shocked that they subjected elementary school aged children to that crap.  I don't care that they're actors, they're still CHILDREN.  Yes I believe in sex education, but not from a bunch of reality show participants who have no sense of what's appropriate and seemingly couldn't care less.  Then we have the brokeback debacle - I'm very familiar with frankenbiting and the like, but either Clint really does have some feelings for JJ or (by far more likely) he knowingly participated in the producers' drama creation, which is in line with his "villains gotta vill" crap.  So now people go on the show wanting to fill a certain role?  Before you know it, the whole show will be composed of amateur/wannabe actors who will let producers dictate every single thing they say and do.  

 

It seems this show is really deviating from what made it successful.  It's abandoned any pretense of being somewhat classy and romantic and has just become completely trashy and a total joke.  I miss the travel porn.  I miss the castles and the ballrooms, I don't need to see disgusting toilets - there are plenty of other shows for that.  I want a lead who will be somewhat serious about the process.  I feel like in the past people do come on the show mainly to promote their business/brand, to go to awesome places around the world, to make friends and be a part of "Bachelor Nation" but they also actually want to date the lead and are open to falling for them.  

 

Kaitlyn was great on the Bachelor, very funny and adorable.  But she reminds me of one of my friends, who is hot and fun and calls herself "one of the guys" - she's hooked up with half the guys we're friends with but none would ever consider having her as a gf.  And that's how she likes it, which is great, but she's definitely not someone who should be the Bachelorette, who is supposed to be looking for a husband!  Seeing Kaitlyn's dates and actions and then hearing her say "I see my husband in this room" is a total disconnect.  

 

I can't believe I'm actually really looking forward to Nick coming back now. 

[truthaboutluv]

I really do not understand why Kaitlyn and her character is being judged and attached to the poor date choices and some of the actions of the guys last night. Did people question Andi's class level when she participated in a group date to find her husband that involved them stripping down? Because I remember watching that episode and thinking, "oh sure, I always run down to the strip clubs to watch a bunch of guys take it off, when looking for my future husband." But I didn't judge Andi and her personality for this, because I recognized that many of these things are producer influenced. 

 

Someone made the comment that Tony was right because these guys didn't come on this show to get into physical tasks just to date a woman but you can say that about any group of contestants on many seasons. Again, did the guys come on Andi's season to strip, sing badly in public with Boyz II Men, take lie detector tests (poor Dylan is still living down his confession that he doesn't always wash his hands after using the bathroom) and mime in public? Did these women last season with Chris come on there to walk down a very public LA street in their bikinis?

 

These activities haven't been new for the show for a long time and I just feel like Kaitlyn is getting judged harshly and bit unfairly because perhaps some already had such negative opinions of her from Chris' season. She's classless and trashy after all, so of course she's going to have the guys do these awful tasks and it's a further reflection on this trashy person she is and we all know that if Brit had been the lead the dates would have been nothing like this.

 

Except again, these producers had Andi make her guys strip, had Desiree make guys do a rap video and whatever other embarrassing group dates they've done. The show has created dates for a particular contestant that specifically focuses on something they know to be the contestant's fear because "love means facing your fear" (insert eyeroll). It's what this show does and the leads have always just gone along with it but for some reason, Kaitlyn is getting judged harsher than others. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[JudyObscure]

I really wish we could find out just how much the lead has to do with the dates.  From little bits said here and there over the years, I got the idea that the producers came up with the ideas for dates but the lead had veto power and might pick from several options.  What made me think Kaitlyn was fine with the boxing and Sumo dates was that she told Tony she had thought it would be fun and most of all, because she gave 225lb Ben Z  the date rose after he sent 170lb Jared to the ER.

[truthaboutluv]

I didn't get the feeling Kaitlyn gave Ben Z. the rose just for winning the boxing competition. She seemed genuinely moved when he talked about his mom and said that she liked seeing that vulnerable side of him. As for Jared, she said repeatedly at the start of the night portion of the date that she wished he was there, that her mind was on him and she was concerned. Like I said last week, I think part of the reason she didn't give him the rose is because he technically did not return to the date, having to go back to the mansion.

 

In Desiree's season, Brooks broke his finger during a game of dodgeball for one of the group dates (if the sumo wrestling was so violent, I think that could qualify) and even after he rushed back to the group date, all dramatically, Desiree didn't give him the rose. He was sitting there with his bandaged up broken finger, still in his dodgeball uniform looking sweaty (okay that was often his look but that's neither here nor there) and hurt and she gave it to someone else. Ironically, she gave it to Chris. 

[leighdear]

 

What made me think Kaitlyn was fine with the boxing and Sumo dates was that she told Tony she had thought it would be fun and most of all, because she gave 225lb Ben Z  the date rose after he sent 170lb Jared to the ER.

The emotion/reaction I kept seeing from her was flat-out glee.  She was in her element and enjoying every second of those dates. 

 

If she had any reservations or any concern about the safety of any of those guys, then she hid it in a way that makes me think an Academy Award for Best Actress is in her future. 

[AndreaK1041]

JJ is so unattractive. And that shoulder tattoo doesn't work for him at all.

Bring on Nick. At least we can all laugh at him together.

[nutty1]

I'm excited to see Nick. He's cute and has a good sense of humor. At least it may liven things up a bit!

[Neerbeena]

Ew, that sex-ed class was cringe-worthy.  Whoever thought that date up should be shot  I don't know what they were going for (laughs?) but they failed miserably.

 

That's two weeks in a row where the men had to physically attack one another for Kaitlyn's enjoyment.  I know in the past the group dates have involved embarrassing situations, but they've mixed the embarrassing dates with the romantic ones.  So far I have yet to see a really romantic date for Kaitlyn.  Her one-on-one dates are ridiculous - underwater modeling pics and a mystery game with snakes & maggots----WTF??  Kaitlyn's season is already off the rails.

[saber5055]

All I can say about this episode is thank goodness for American Ninja Warrior and SYTYCD on the other channels. It's like this season is being produced by the same people who did Fear Factor and Wipeout and other fake shows where the people are on for their 15 minutes and have no interest in finding "love" much less their "husband." No way does Kaitlyn "see her husband" in any room because no way is she looking for one. She's out for a good time, which to her means being gross and crude with the guys and getting some "some" on the side.

 

This show used to be fun to watch the couples working hard to win a wife/husband and one could go along for that ride, even if it was a snarky ride. But this season ... please. It has no resemblance to the show that used to be The Bachelorette. I can't even guilty pleasure this mess.

Edited June 3, 2015 by saber5055

[Madding crowd]

I don't think Kaitlyn is really mean, but saying that Jared looked more attractive with a black eye was not right. If a man said that he would  be accused of being an abuser or thug. And I believe the leads have some say and some heads up on some of the activities; otherwise they would all look way more surprised. I'm sure some of them are surprises, but I believe the leads are interviewed as to what types of activities they want. Katilyn looked way too happy about the sumo/boxing/sex-ed for it to be a huge surprise.

 

I mentioned to my school principal the sex ed scene and she almost fell off her chair. We take 5th graders (average age 10). to a science place that does a great job of explaining basic biology. They explain puberty and the basics of reproduction. Any questions beyond that are not answered and the student is advised to ask their parents. This is done this way so each parent can add information as they see fit. I know a couple of people mentioned puberty starts in 5th grade but not really. Some girls begin their periods at age 10-11, but the average age is around 12. Boys don't reach puberty until around 13-14. Of course, there are some variations. One funny thing is that I used to go along on these educational trips and the girls were always cool with everything and the boys always left with their mouths hanging open and lots of giggling.

 

I still like the welder guy and I think Ben Z is good looking (but not a good personality). Not a fan of Nick and really feel annoyed at the whole Clint/JJ thing which literally came out of nowhere.

[Padma]

Oddly enough, I think Nick is smart enough to navigate the mess that is this stupid show this season--even smart enough to "rescue" it a bit for the moments he's onscreen with Kaitlyn, at least.

 

That's my hope anyway, because someone needs to put some romance back into this and it doesn't seem to be coming from the guys, Kaitlyn or TPTB. Hopefully Nick "Right Reasons" Valli (or whatever his last name actually is) will make it more watchable. Because so far, to paraphrase CH, "Most. Awful. Season. Ever." 

[NikSac]

I'm curious what the Britt dates would have been.

 

Me too!  I was wondering if they had a whole different set of dates picked out. I think they almost must have - I really don't picture Britt liking most of the ones they've had so far, assuming the B'ette gets some say in what they do or don't do. 

[tpplay]

 

assuming the B'ette gets some say in what they do or don't do.

 

There's no way this is true.

 

The franchise exists to make money.  Corporations don't let their employees make such decisions.

 

It may be true (although I doubt it) that when someone goes to Chris (i.e., producer guy) and says she doesn't want to have a rose ceremony, it may be considered and if Chris (i.e., producer guy) decides it is okay, then it is filmed one way.  Otherwise, it is filmed another way.

 

Frankly, I'm really looking forward to the day when one of these bachelorettes/bachelors gets up the courage to tell the truth about this, contract or no contract.

[NikSac]

They could have used those giant, inflatable boxing gloves and gone for the goofy "competition".  They could have gone to a skateboard park, they could have raced tricycles.  They could have done an interesting obstacle course, like the wedding dress run last season. 

 

Exactly. They have those places that do party rentals that have the big giant inflatable sumo suits, inflatable boxing gloves, etc.  Yes it would have been cheesier but it would have been infinitely more fun to watch, for me anyway.

[Temperance]

If two contestants are going to declare their same-sex love for each other, it should be the final two, right before the bachelor(ette) picks the winner.

 

And they're obviously going for the novelty factor with these group dates. What's next? Yodeling contest? Working the night shift at Walmart? Neutering cats?

 

It also seems like a given that every Bachelorette season is going to feature a girl who's all "I thought this was going to be an amazing happy fun-time journey!" and one or more guys who ruin it by being all dramatic. Of course the drama has to be part of it, but the girl (and some of the other guys) pretending that's not what's supposed to happen is getting old.

I love the idea of them working the night shift at Walmart! With like three of them as the person who greets people at door! At 3 am!

 

Also Kaitlyn is Robyn from HIMYM.

[Padma]

I guess I'm the only one who fell for Clint's "joke" about JJ. I legitimately thought that Clint was expressing true feelings toward JJ, even if it was just a friendship from JJ's perspective. None of it came off as "funny" for me, so I was impressed for him to be so open about feelings that he apparently never felt before for a man. Oh, well, fool me for thinking this is a progressive society and hence didn't see the "humor." Villains gotta vil, or so I hear.

Was it really supposed to be a "joke"? Because I thought it was for real, too. I thought Clint was totally gay and into JJ. And, to me,JJ is perhaps asexual jerk and was just leading Clint on just for fun--popping his back zits in the shower notwithstanding. (And...ew.)  I didn't think it was being faked or stage--and apparently CH doesn't either per comments today (not that he particularly has any credibility about any of this at this point).

 

I don't like either Clint or JJ but I found myself hoping they really were falling in love, and would soon leave together.  At least it would have brought some romance and chemistry  to a show that , so far, has none (the guys talking about their "feelings" for Kaitlyn just sound so completely scripted and fake at this point. Much worse than normal. Probably not really her fault--more the weird vibe in the house and weird activites producers are choosing fo rthem.

[greyhorse]

I guess I'm the only one who fell for Clint's "joke" about JJ. I legitimately thought that Clint was expressing true feelings toward JJ, even if it was just a friendship from JJ's perspective. None of it came off as "funny" for me, so I was impressed for him to be so open about feelings that he apparently never felt before for a man. Oh, well, fool me for thinking this is a progressive society and hence didn't see the "humor." Villains gotta vil, or so I hear.

 

Was it really supposed to be a "joke"? Because I thought it was for real, too. I thought Clint was totally gay and into JJ. And, to me,JJ is perhaps asexual jerk and was just leading Clint on just for fun--popping his back zits in the shower notwithstanding. (And...ew.)  I didn't think it was being faked or stage--and apparently CH doesn't either per comments today (not that he particularly has any credibility about any of this at this point).

 

I don't like either Clint or JJ but I found myself hoping they really were falling in love, and would soon leave together.  At least it would have brought some romance and chemistry  to a show that , so far, has none (the guys talking about their "feelings" for Kaitlyn just sound so completely scripted and fake at this point. Much worse than normal. Probably not really her fault--more the weird vibe in the house and weird activites producers are choosing fo rthem.

Clint now may be saying it was a "joke", but count me in as somebody who really believed he was developing true feelings for JJ.  He went on about how he had to get a rose to basically stay in the game so he could continue his romance with JJ.  JJ interestingly doesn't seem to talk about Clint as much, or at least we haven't seen it. Did I miss something?  Did they really show them taking a shower together?  Clint referenced it, but was there actually a shower scene where JJ was popping Clint's back zits?  WTF?  

 

I agree that boxing and sumo wrestling where bad producer date choices, if only for the fact that (like Tony) I don't believe that the contestants should really be given a chance to show physical aggression towards each other.  If two guys went at it at the house like they did in the ring or on the mat, they would both be instantly kicked off the show.  Yet somehow, allowing them to beat each other up in the guise of a date is somehow ok.  

 

Not that it matters, but did Clint end up winning the sumo wrestling because of his college wrestling skills?  I also didn't like how the guys who weren't picked for the sumo were still standing around laughing at everyone.  They should have taken the sumo date guys somewhere else, or made the non-date guys stay in the house.

 

JJ:  "I really love Japanese culture...I like sushi."  Bwah!

 

It seems like this season is getting pummeled here in the forums, but I actually don't think it's bad.  It's entertaining, if anything.  And that's what the producers want.  

The sex scandal where Kaitlyn sleeps with one of the guys which I think will be revealed next week is only going to add more fuel to the fire.

[NikSac]

Was it really supposed to be a "joke"? Because I thought it was for real, too. I thought Clint was totally gay and into JJ. And, to me,JJ is perhaps asexual jerk and was just leading Clint on just for fun--

 

Maybe I was fooled by producers but I actually took it this way too. I thought Clint was perhaps developing feelings for JJ, and it was a surprise even to him.  I thought he was a jerk to stick around while consistently saying he really wasn't into Kaitlyn, but I do think he had at least 'something' beyond just friendship there for JJ.  JJ on the other hand I think will just do anything for screen time and thought "ooh this is good!" and went along with it.  Of course I have to remind myself everything is heavily edited, but that was the way I felt about their interactions.

[Wings]

Clint and JJ are just playing with TPTB.  They wanted face time and got it.  Production will keep them around until they grow tired of their concocted story.  They definitely have SM buzzing which was their goal. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by wings707

[Stinamaia]

It occurred to me that the shift away from romance to something more raucous may be to attract younger viewers, I read that the ratings show that the show was up .3 in the 18- 34 age group, and got the best rating for that time slot for women from 18 - 34 which is the group advertisers want.

I don't have a Nielsen box in my house so what I watch or don't watch is meaningless. Let's see if Monday's episode turns viewers away.

[Lamb18]

Here's a headliner from my local news which is as bizarre as this episode: a principal (whose name is Starri Hedges) and sex education teacher of a local private school called Gaia Academy took some high school and middle school students to an "adult" store called the Smitten Kitten. She justified this as a non-threatening way to show kids condoms, some other sex stuff, etc.  Two of the girls were 9 and 11. Some parents pulled their children from the school.

 

Did this teacher get inspired by watching The Bachelorette or what?

[pitchy]

I didn't get the feeling Kaitlyn gave Ben Z. the rose just for winning the boxing competition. She seemed genuinely moved when he talked about his mom and said that she liked seeing that vulnerable side of him. As for Jared, she said repeatedly at the start of the night portion of the date that she wished he was there, that her mind was on him and she was concerned. Like I said last week, I think part of the reason she didn't give him the rose is because he technically did not return to the date, having to go back to the mansion.

 

In Desiree's season, Brooks broke his finger during a game of dodgeball for one of the group dates (if the sumo wrestling was so violent, I think that could qualify) and even after he rushed back to the group date, all dramatically, Desiree didn't give him the rose. He was sitting there with his bandaged up broken finger, still in his dodgeball uniform looking sweaty (okay that was often his look but that's neither here nor there) and hurt and she gave it to someone else. Ironically, she gave it to Chris. 

 

I agree with you re the reason Kaitlyn tipped over to BenZ right after the mention of his mother - the vulnerabilities and opening up thing.

Others said he was using his mom or selling her and, although he's not among my own favorites,  I think he's genuine re the impact of his mother's death and if I had to go into that idiotic panic room, I would appreciate someone like him for that.

 

  Jared's expressions often remind me of Brooks for some reason.

[Dirtybubble]

It occurred to me that the shift away from romance to something more raucous may be to attract younger viewers, I read that the ratings show that the show was up .3 in the 18- 34 age group, and got the best rating for that time slot for women from 18 - 34 which is the group advertisers want.

 

Maybe.  I thought that since the show UnReal and people like R.S. spilling the T the show has finally realized that it's loosing it's credibility as a legit dating show and now is beginning to make fun of itself *shrug*.  It's just this reminds me of shows like the Real World on MTV where it started out as a serious social experiment and then evolved into basically making fun of the people living in the house *shrug*

[deSchenke]

Exactly. They have those places that do party rentals that have the big giant inflatable sumo suits, inflatable boxing gloves, etc.  Yes it would have been cheesier but it would have been infinitely more fun to watch, for me anyway.

Didn't they do that one season?  Or am I thinking of another show.

 

My take on the JJ/Clint thing is they both came for Britt.  When Kaitlyn became the B-ette, they were just in it for the free meals and travel.  They are probably bored out of their minds waiting around and found a common bond mocking the other guys who are in it for Kaitlyn.  So to have a little fun, they came up with the bromance thing.  That's why they are unpopular with the rest of the guys and have been made the villains. 

 

What happened to the rappelling off of buildings, or walking highwires?  I guess Kaitlyn doesn't have a fear of heights, so they didn't plan them.  I did notice the disclaimer that birds and insects aren't normally part of the escape room experience.  I wonder if that applied to the snakes too?  Because Kaitlyn is afraid of birds, and Ben Z is afraid of snakes.  I don't think it's any coincidence that birds and snakes were there.

[jumper sage]

That's two weeks in a row where the men had to physically attack one another for Kaitlyn's enjoyment.

She sure seemed to enjoy it too!  To me, she seems like the kind of girl who gets her date into a bar fight, then knocks him around at home and hurriedly calls the police to report HIM.

[Canada]

I feel bad for Kaitlyn... lousy dates, way too many assholes in the group.  She deserves a do-over.  I hope she bails and tells the show to go jump!

[Bugs Meany]

Yes indeed, Kaitlyn is hitting it out of the park with the hyper-sexual, inappropriate, violent, disgusting and immature behavior she seems to enjoy exhibiting and witnessing. 

 

She's got "Wife and mother" written all over her. 

 

So it's even more bizarre that her cast might hold the record for most guys with kids.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I have to say, that preview clip of Kaitlyn gasping "It's Niiiiiiick" is hilarious.  I love it.  It's so incredibly dramatic.  Either she's an incredibly good actor or she really is that excited about it.  I have no idea who Nick even is or why it's supposedly a big deal.  But that preview is hilarious.

[Andromeda]

Didn't they do that one season?  Or am I thinking of another show.

 

My take on the JJ/Clint thing is they both came for Britt.  When Kaitlyn became the B-ette, they were just in it for the free meals and travel.  They are probably bored out of their minds waiting around and found a common bond mocking the other guys who are in it for Kaitlyn.  So to have a little fun, they came up with the bromance thing.  That's why they are unpopular with the rest of the guys and have been made the villains. 

 

What happened to the rappelling off of buildings, or walking highwires?  I guess Kaitlyn doesn't have a fear of heights, so they didn't plan them.  I did notice the disclaimer that birds and insects aren't normally part of the escape room experience.  I wonder if that applied to the snakes too?  Because Kaitlyn is afraid of birds, and Ben Z is afraid of snakes.  I don't think it's any coincidence that birds and snakes were there.

The disclaimer said animals are not part of the experience, so none of them are -- from scorpions in the drawers to snakes around the toilet to meal worms even (excuse me, "maggots.")

[deSchenke]

The disclaimer said animals are not part of the experience, so none of them are -- from scorpions in the drawers to snakes around the toilet to meal worms even (excuse me, "maggots.")

I replayed the segment.  This is verbatim:

 

"The animals and insects have been added and are not normally part of this experience."

 

I swear, somewhere in the interview process for casting they ask, "What are you most afraid of?" and taylor the dates to the responses.  I don't know why they think that makes for good TV.

[jonaswan2]

I swear, somewhere in the interview process for casting they ask, "What are you most afraid of?" and taylor the dates to the responses.  I don't know why they think that makes for good TV.

It's a cheap way to heighten the drama and emotional levels in an early episode before people start developing feelings and it allows them to emotionally hook their star and their TPTB or camera's favorite together for the run of the show. Because nothing brings you closer together than going through hell together.

 

I don't know who in production thought all the violent group dates were a good idea, though. Shows how much they respect the "talent" after all these years.

Edited June 3, 2015 by jonaswan2

[greyhorse]

I really don't have a problem whatsoever with the "Escape experience".  Presumably no animals or insects were harmed or killed.  It's not as if there were monkeys or dogs in chains in the exhibit.  Living in Los Angeles, I've heard of this venue.  It's frequently used for workplace team building exercises in addition to just going with friends and having fun.  Yes, they added birds, insects, and snakes.  Yes, it was kind of gross having to stick your hand in (hopefully) fake feces water while there is a snake in the toilet.  But what else would you expect?  It would have been terribly boring watching Kaitlin and Ben Z just sit in a quiet room and solve puzzles.  Heighten the experience, raise the fear level, get the blood pressure going - that's what makes it watchable.  The adrenaline of going through a terrifying experience together creates a strong emotional bond.  And we saw that.  I'm surprised she didn't strip off his clothes and bang him right after in the warehouse.

 

My guess is production is loving this season.  It's good trashy tv.

[Adeejay]

I think the one thing we can all agree on, is that this was the worst episode in the history of the franchise. 

[backformore]

I think the one thing we can all agree on, is that this was the worst episode in the history of the franchise. 

Absolutely.  And that is based on my feeling after I watched.   I questioned if I wanted to be the type of person who is amused by this crap, and realized I was not amused or entertained.   I watch this show as a kind of escape, after work, it has been a fun thing, I can talk to people about the show, joke about the contestants, speculate what's really going on.   This last episode made me feel dirty and ashamed.

[leighdear]

Worst to watch, but that just translates into $$$$ for the show.  Anything that stimulates conversation and social media activity is gold to them. 

 

This is absolutely a textbook example of the phrase "There's no such thing as bad publicity".  (Unless you're a Duggar!)

[Cecily]

I have to say, I totally bought Clint's love speech. I do believe he was serious when he said (although somewhat jokingly) that his love for JJ superseded his interest in Caitlyn. However, I don't think he was speaking of gay love, only genuine bro love. He was simply having this moment where he met someone he instantly saw as a friend for life. Isn't anyone else feeling this theory? Seems like everyone is either "Yeah, he's a closeted gay man" or "It's all producer shenanigans".

 

Edit: BTW, I'll be shocked, yes truly shocked, if Tony the healer isn't cast for BIP.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Cecily

[Kbilly]

Villains gotta vil, or so I hear.

 

Hee! While I tend to think JJ but mostly Clint is full of shit, I do think it's a long way to go just to get extra screen time. Pretend that you're gay on national TV just for a few more seconds of fame? Seems like too much 'splainin' to have to do afterward. Did you even really draw that triceratops Clint??!!! Is nothing real?!

[Adeejay]

This last episode made me feel dirty and ashamed.

 

You are not alone.  I heard ABC logged over 4,700 calls and emails of viewers' complaints; double what they used to get for an episode of "How To Get Away With Murder".  Fleiss and Company seem to have struck gold with "free spirited" Kaitlin.   I wonder how this translates into ratings. 

[truthaboutluv]

Fleiss and Company seem to have struck gold with "free spirited" Kaitlin.

But I don't think any of that is really on Kaitlyn since my understanding is that the majority of these complaints was about the stupid bromance nonsense. There was some issue with the sex ed group date as well but again that's really on the producers. And I know the show got many complaints last season for having the girls walk down LA public streets in their bikinis.

It's clear that they don't care. I'm sure in their minds, the more complaints and outrage, the more press and ratings. I just disagree with this being correlated to Kaitlyn being the lead. These producers pull shit like this no matter who is the lead. And again I saw many articles blasting the whole Clint/JJ nonsense and none of it really focused on Kaitlyn. It was all about how clearly out of touch the producers of the show are.

Edited June 3, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[JenE4]

I think the one thing we can all agree on, is that this was the worst episode in the history of the franchise. 

 

I think it depends on your definition of "worst" as it relates to the Right Reasons/Wrong Reasons continuum. Worst set of dates within an episode--absolutely! Worst potrayal of societal issues--without a doubt! Worst overall behaviour of the contestants with FOUR Wrong Reasons walkouts/pushouts/issues (Kupah, Tony, Clint, and JJ)--hell, yeah! But for Wrong Reasons viewing, wow, this was an action-packed episode and they gave us many things to talk about! That makes for a "good episode" in my book as compared to a completely non-descript Right Reasons episode in which nothing of interest happens and everyone just behaves pleasantly. Guess this puts me in the demographic that's ruining this show with pleas of more Wrong Reasons drama.

[leighdear]

I'm cool with some wrong-reasons shenanigans.  I'd just like them to be a little more judicious with them, and not try & cram them all into one sitting/episode.  It does make things more interesting, but the pacing should be better. 

 

I'm critical of Kaitlyn and the show overall, but that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying it!  :)

[Padma]

I don't mind "wrong reasons" but there's nothing entertaining about seeing men forced to fight with each other, get injured, etc. for some girl's (and producer's) entertainment. (And she did seem entertained). The (non) sex-ed for 5th graders was also irresponsible, random and offensive... the use of birds etc. in the dark room -- I hated that, too, and am skeptical that nothing was injured. Birds flying randomly in terror can easily break a wing and die. The whole set up just seemed like some really cheesy MTV reality show pandering to the lowest common denominator of viewer. 

 

Is this really what TB has become since the days of Trista and Ryan, Meredith and Ian, even Emily and Jef/Arie?  Chris Harrison is now one of the producers of this awful show and continues to be happy with these choices. I think of him as something like Andy Cohen now--that really pleasant, likeable-seeming guy who will do anything, humiliate anyone, for a buck and never think twice about it.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Padma

[leighdear]

I'll admit, my love for Chris Harrison has dimmed with this season.  It's not completely gone, but the bloom is definitely off the rose....

[violetr]

I really do not understand why Kaitlyn and her character is being judged and attached to the poor date choices and some of the actions of the guys last night. Did people question Andi's class level when she participated in a group date to find her husband that involved them stripping down? Because I remember watching that episode and thinking, "oh sure, I always run down to the strip clubs to watch a bunch of guys take it off, when looking for my future husband." But I didn't judge Andi and her personality for this...

 

 

IMO it's just garden variety sexism and gender stereotyping. Even though lots of folks hated Andi, I don't recall anyone complaining about her "acting like a man" or not being "ladylike." Sigh.

 

That said, I was a little disappointed in her reaction to the escape room date. I guess it's kinda shitty of me to harsh on someone for a legitimate phobia, but all the screaming was a little much. And I agree with those who wonder why she has bird tattoos if she's so afraid of birds. The hell? I would have enjoyed the escape room date but I like horror.

So glad Tony is gone. What a boring, insufferable, prosaic phony. I can't even with the Clint/JJ stuff. Yawn. They deserve each other. Bring on Nick!

Edited June 3, 2015 by violetr

[awaken]

I hate to say it (or maybe I'm secretly glad) that I just can't watch this show any more.  I've been hanging on by a thread the past couple seasons but I just can't do it any more.  Seeing the preview for the sex ed class to kids just killed it for me for good.  That has nothing to do with a date, I don't know who would have their children be a part of that in jest, who would come up with the idea to do this for a reality show and broadcast it. And tony leaving b/c sumo wrestling was against his ethics.  He was obviously a producer plant and it was so over the top. I have no idea who these men are, the whole thing is so horrible fake and engineered, and the fun is gone for me.    

 

I didn't even get up to the fake gay "scandal" (if it was one).

 

A LOT more space will now be freed up on my DVR!  

[backformore]

I don't mind "wrong reasons" but there's nothing entertaining about seeing men forced to fight with each other, get injured, etc. for some girl's (and producer's) entertainment. (And she did seem entertained). The (non) sex-ed for 5th graders was also irresponsible, random and offensive... the use of birds etc. in the dark room -- I hated that, too, and am skeptical that nothing was injured. Birds flying randomly in terror can easily break a wing and die. The whole set up just seemed like some really cheesy MTV reality show pandering to the lowest common denominator of viewer. 

 

Is this really what TB has become since the days of Trista and Ryan, Meredith and Ian, even Emily and Jef/Arie?  Chris Harrison is now one of the producers of this awful show and continues to be happy with these choices. I think of him as something like Andy Cohen now--that really pleasant, likeable-seeming guy who will do anything, humiliate anyone, for a buck and never think twice about it.

I agree.  there was nothing likeable about any of this.  they got rid of everything good or fumy  about the show,  and are left with a bunch of people forced by other assholes  to act like assholes for the benefit of the audience, who end up feeling like assholes for watching.  

[Kerri Johnson]

Re: Joshua. I agree that he's got 0 game telling Kaitlyn he basically has no game but at least he's honest instead of a cocky jerk like Ben Z. I can see how Kaitlyn would be turned off but he's showing that he's into her pshyciall from what I've noticed. He was the first to run up to her on both group dates, he makes sure he always talks to her and he's constantly told her how beautiful she is. I'm not sure what else she wants.

 

Joe, last week pulled her into a kiss without even having a conversation and Kaitlyn called it "hot", so I guess she likes dominant men.

 

I'm thrilled that there was no Brady and Britt this week. I wonder how quickly Britt will drop him when this season is over.

[Former Nun]

Was that DiDi Conn?   Or does anyone even remember her?   Before I knew the "education" of the elementary school kids was a prank, I thought something was fishy when I recognized a 60-ish actress as their teacher--at least she looked like the actress.  DiDi Conn's big break was in the 70s movie, "You Light Up My Life."  I've seen her on TV occasionally in small parts.  Am I completely off base?