S01.E23: Fast Enough

[Trini]

5. And Eddie is gone, at least for now. More importantly, Eddie's sexy, sexy voice is gone, and that's a terrible loss to the show. Be careful when you time travel, I guess. You never know how many sexy voices you might lose.

 

Guh... his to speech Iris.... Now I'm upset they didn't give him more lines the whole season! Poor Eddie.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Trini

[phoenics]

I still don't know how I feel about that finale.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Damn, Eddie. Wouldn't it been easier to get a vasectomy? Poor dumb bastard.

 

:-) I guess to have the same finality has a suicide, he'd have to really be committed to getting that vasectomy at a future date. Or Caitlin would have to be quick on the spot with the surgical scissors? :-)

 

Is it like Terminator? The changes that have already happened, happened, and the ripple effect will only matter for things going forward.

Technically, <i>Terminator</i> is a well constructed closed causal loop. It's <i>T2</i> that works the way you describe.

 

Henry did bring it up that the universe has a natural order to things, and he didn't want Barry to go back.

 

But then again that was a major point of Flashpoint, Barry was selfish and fucked everything up.  It was alll about accepting the things you can not change.  

Well, speaking as someone who absolutely hated Flashpoint, it claimed to be making that point, but none of the changes that causes the grimdark dystopian future had any connection to Barry's actions. And it involved character assasination of several other heroes (esp. WW and Aquaman). At least here, the possibility that things would change for the worse in some way was based on the direct effect it would have on Barry's life and the lives of people he knows.

 

Of course, we don't know how future Barry knows to tell his past self not to intervene. 

 

So, opening the wormhole was a complete waste (Barry didn't save his mom) and RF didn't go back to the future. I wonder how many people died for that exercise in not accomplishing much. (I realize that Barry did provide his mother a  few moments of comfort, but that's not worth a single person's life). 

 

Was Gideon on board the time ship? Did it get sucked into the wormhole? I was wondering if Barry "invented it" by just getting it from RF.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[statsgirl]

I loved Victor Garber in this episode.  I'm really looking forward to him in LoT.

 

It really bugs me when shows call it a singularity, which is the condition of being singular, when what they really mean is a quantum singularity.

 

I will miss Tom Cavanaugh. I hope they don't make the mistake they made with John Barrowman, another actor doing a great job playing a villain, who they keep bringing back and making the storylines more ridiculous till finally I just want him to go.

 

Damn, Eddie. Wouldn't it been easier to get a vasectomy? Poor dumb bastard. Maybe he'll be revived in some other time. I mean, the wormhole leads to everywhere, and he can get a second chance there. BTW, how long in the future did Eobard say he was from? Canon dictates Reverse Flash is 500 years from the "present," so putting him in the mid-22nd century threw me off a little.

LOL. Why didn't Eddie think of that?

 

They Tommy'd Eddie.  I was so happy when Eddie decided to fight for Iris because it's a better relationship than Barry/Iris.  And now Eddie is dead, and not only is he dead but he's put a spike into Barry/Iris because Barry will be second best for her now.

 

They didn't really think the implications all the way through.

So true. Of both shows.

[phoenics]

Ugh - my head hurts.

I declare Cisco "da real MVP" of this episode with that "So long, and thanks for the fist" line. I did laugh outloud at that. But that was really the only moment I laughed - I was kinda bored during the episode and kept waiting for something to happen? And then when the wormhole appeared, I was like "Finally!" and then it went off.

Meh.

[Amelie06]

 

They pulled the Tommy Merlyn story again with Eddie Thawne. These idiots need new writers. You cannot keep recycling the same stuff. The viewers can see that.

Agreed. I think this made more sense than the Tommy Merlyn death, but I did think it was similar. Eddie's sacrifice seems more necessary than Tommy's for the simple fact that it was so obvious. If Eddie was Eobard's ancestor, it is kind of obvious that a very effective way to defeat the jerk was for him to not have any kids. This could have more reasonably been achieved by merely making the decision to not have children, but that wouldn't have been very dramatic.

 

Anyway, Barry was a total a-hole in this episode. I kept waiting for someone to say "What the fuck? Barry, what about my mother? What about everyone else in the entire world?" It made no sense. And why did it have to be right that second? Maybe I missed the part where they explained that because of the blah blah they had to do it then and no other time, perhaps when they had gathered more information.

 

I can't deal with the Iris fuckery. She is acting like that old SNL skit "Mango". She is sending all kinds of mixed signals to both men. She knows she is in love with Barry! Poor dumb, hopeful Eddie.

 

There was definitely something to Eddie getting sucked into the wormhole. I'm hopeful that he will come out alive and changed. He was basically the worlds best and most communicative boyfriend, great in real life but boring on tv.

 

That scene with Barry and his mom was kind of a killer. There is something I love about Barry going back and not saving his mother, but getting to say goodbye to her. That's amazing to me. I can't even imagine getting the opportunity to tell someone you've lost how much you love them. Getting to spend a few bonus seconds with them... This was a total Field of Dreams ending to this storyline and I loved it.

 

Killer Frost eh? Interesting. I wonder what Cisco's power will be. I would assume remembering things that didn't happen can't possibly be his power.

 

I agree that everything should have changed upon the death of Eddie. I was expecting an instant change. I didn't really like the wormhole ending. Barry was basically flying at the end. Ok. This ending didn't make me feel like "oh snap, when is this shit coming back on!" Instead, I was just like "well that happened."

[Latverian Diplomat]

So when The Flash fought Spartacus (can not remember the character's name) he was moving with a speed of less than Mach 2. Yet he was able to break time continuum. Fighter pilots fly over Mach 2 regularly. I never read any of them altering our timeline. 

Yeah, they have kind of written themselves into a corner here. They have already established Barry as running in the hundreds of mph, but they want to have the time travel thing tied to his speed. So, they invoked the Speed Force; when Barry is running that fast, it's not the simple speed that matters, it's the way that the effort draws on/connects him to the Speed Force that plays with the space/time continuum. 

 

Whenever something doesn't make sense about the Flash's speed, it's the Speed Force that explains it (away).

Edited May 20, 2015 by Latverian Diplomat

[FireFoxy]

Eddie! D:

 

I am so not over it. I loved him and I actually really liked Iris/Eddie. Ugh!!! WHYYYY?!??

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I should say that Eddie shooting himself - or just dying in some way - was sooooo telegraphed when he decided to "screw the future!" and get back together with Iris. Upset with myself for not seeing it right away.

 

And so after doing some pontificating... some things stood out to me, not sure if they are nitpicks, continuity errors, or future plot points...;

• In old interrogation interviews, Henry pleaded that the reasons his prints were on the murder weapon were because he was a Dr. and had to stabilize the knife and wound to try and save his wife. But during the same event after Present!Barry went back to stop it, Henry is seen laying unconscious on the floor near the knife. Is this a continuity error on the writers' part, or was this done intentionally (by Future!Barry) to change things in present time? After all, Henry was still in his prison cell when Barry came back and was in the process of racing up that building to try and stop the black hole. Confused.

 

• This is a nitpick, and I don't want to be cold-hearted, but all I could think about when Barry broke down right after his mom passed, was "dude, the clock's running!".

 

• Curiousity. Why were the lightning - in this ep. and all season long - produced from the two speedsters the opposites of their suit colors? IE, Barry = Yellow and RF = Red.

 

That finale needed to be 2 hours. The ~5 month wait is going to be terminally long.

 

I really think the ending will lead to some type of "flashpoint" scenario, for next season. I just hope and pray we don't see Season1 all over again, only with just some acute changes here and there to make it seem "different". I don't want to re-watch something I just seen. Please, tptb

Edited May 20, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[ruby24]

Lol- I wonder if Barry's going to start calling Joe "Dad" now. That was a tad heavy-handed, since he already said to him earlier that he was his other father. All that's left is for Joe to officially adopt him (unless he already did- Barry wasn't actually adopted by him as a kid, was he?)

Edited May 20, 2015 by ruby24

[rtms77]

The time line should have completely changed the moment RF disitergrated yet they were all still there ready to battle the black hole. None of that should have happened if the time line changed thanks to Eddie's sacrifice.

 

I'm going to give Catlin a tiny pass on not understanding what a sinularity was, but that's a pin drop pass at best. She a scientist, her major may be bio chem or something but she had to have taken general science to get there.It's like they had to dumb down all the women on the show to show all the manpain going on.

 

So Snart walks around in the middle of summer I presume in a parka and hood? He's going to get heat exhustion,lol.

Edited May 20, 2015 by rtms77

[quarks]

So when The Flash fought Spartacus (can not remember the character's name) he was moving with a speed of less than Mach 2. Yet he was able to break time continuum. Fighter pilots fly over Mach 2 regularly. I never read any of them altering our timeline. 

 

To be fair, are any of those fighter pilots specifically targeting hydrogen protons?

[Moya the Leviathan]

I really hope they start developing female characters on this show who are something other than love interests.  As good as Flash has been, they have really struggled with their female characters.

 

Mama Allen? Still mostly dead.  Dr Snow?  Slightly happier wedding than Nyssa got, but roughly the same chance of enjoying quality time with spouse, since he'll be off time galavanting in the near future.  

It's a shade ambiguous that Dr. Snow will become Killer Frost (simultaneous alt-timelines), but character development usually inherent in becoming a supervillian will likely be limited to picking out a catsuit and hairdye.

 Iris West? About to spend next season being punished by guilt for daring to love two guys.  

 

OTOH:

Cisco and Barry get awesome scenes confronting Reverse Flash (Scared/Brave character exposition just lovely).  Dr Evil monologues most excellently with hardly any mustache twirling.  Firestorm both get backdoor pilot assist scenes. The detectives at least get a quiet hero speech apiece.  Cisco gets most of the best quips, although "Let's skip all the Hebrew," was definitely a contender.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I guess to have the same finality has a suicide, he'd have to really be committed to getting that vasectomy at a future date. Or Caitlin would have to be quick on the spot with the surgical scissors? :-)

 

The problem is that vasectomies don't always take -- Eddie would have had to go full castration to be sure.  Or kill himself with his gun (which he did).  Or nuke himself from orbit, it's the only way to be sure </Ripley from Aliens>.

Edited May 20, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[Artsda]

Loved it! Great finale.

 

Awww at Barry calling Joe his dad. Loved the wedding, seeing Snart, everything with Cisco. 

[ruby24]

Mama Allen? Still mostly dead.  Dr Snow?  Slightly happier wedding than Nyssa got, but roughly the same chance of enjoying quality time with spouse, since he'll be off time galavanting in the near future.  

It's a shade ambiguous that Dr. Snow will become Killer Frost (simultaneous alt-timelines), but character development usually inherent in becoming a supervillian will likely be limited to picking out a catsuit and hairdye.

 Iris West? About to spend next season being punished by guilt for daring to love two guys.  

 

Yeah, I'm worried about that too. I really hope the grief period doesn't go on too long (like all season).

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I just realized something - or I'm way overthinking things, either way....  if Futrure!Barry had time to pause and gesture to Present!Barry to keep him from saving Nora, then F!Barry might have had the time to save her himself, but intentionally let her die still (again?).  Think about that when you get a chance to breathe a bit later, P!Barry.

 

So, was P!Barry there the night that kicked the series off, and just ignored because of his hiding spot?  Or when he went back, was that a new change??  But if it was 'new', how did F!Barry know P!Barry was there, to 'advise' him not to save mom?! 

 

Ugh.  Time & alternative universes travelling makes my head ache.

[Racj82]

I liked the ending for Eddie. It was perfectly logical what he did and it was totally in character. No, I wasn't thinking of Tommy when he died and I still don't care. No I don't think it's just a retread. It's a comic book series. Heroic sacrifices come with the territory.

 

No, I don't think Flash is selfish. I mean, even a hero has to want use powers for his own happiness as well. Innocent people got hurt and it was his family. If you had a chance to fix that, even if it was a slim one, how can you begrudge someone for taking it. The risks were really high. I understand that. But, I can't blame him for putting it on the line because in his position, I understand what he must have been feeling.

 

No I'm not disappointed in the finale. This is getting crazy now. There is just too much expected of season finales these days. They aren't all meant to be the last act of Age of Ultron. This is what we have been building to all season. Barry being able to fix his past. Even if it was a dangerous chance, he got it. It was not without serious thought put in. I'm sorry if it's boring for people but this choice should not have been taken without serious thought and time put into it. This shouldn't be something you just jump through so you can get more action. We concluded Barry's season long journey to fix his past. It is now done. That's what a finale should be about first and foremost.

 

Please stop worrying about the show not being fun anymore. What was anyone expecting as far as the finales was concerned in this regard? It's the season finale. This isn't the time to be light and breezy. I'm also tired of the hand wringing anytime a comic book property gets serious. We are dealing with life and death here. The stakes are always serious even if it's not always taken super seriously. It's not the end of the world if a show takes it's plot seriously. It's a finale and we still got some jokes and light moment between Firestorm and Cisco. This show has always had a nice balance between dark and light. I'm fine with it going more one way than the other once in a while.

 

All in all, this one of the best first seasons of a network tv show I've ever seen. I've never seen things click into place so quickly.

 

Oh and like it or not, Barry was always going to make the decision to not save his mom. It's completely in line with what happens in the Flash Paradox. Actually saving his mom actually makes things a hundred times worse in the world. His decision honors the decision he made in the comics.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Racj82

[MarkHB]

I forgot to mention: I really, really loved the way Grant delivered the opening narration.  He nailed that thing.

 

Also: in the Speed Force vortex, there was one scene near the end I couldn't figure out.  On the left we saw the giant Transformer foot come through the ceiling from the Legends trailer, and then another shot of the Legends.  Then, on the right, it looked like a woman with a baby carriage or something.  Was that Barry's mom with him as an infant?  This was just before we keyed in on the night his mom died.

[VCRTracking]

As many on twitter have noted couldn't Eddie have had a vasectomy?"

[Sandman]

Did it never occur to Wells, either, that in going into the past, he created the Flash, rather than destroying him?

I can only assume that the wormhole coughing up Jay Garrick's helmet means Barry has some sort of blessing from the Speed Force which means his creation is somehow independent of causality? Because Reverse Flash wasn't just killed in the past -- he was made never to have existed.

Also, I don't think 136 years is long enough for Eddie to be Eobard's four-times great-anybody. RF talked about being from centuries into the future, not less than a century and a half. Apparently math is no more the writers' strong suit than science.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Sandman

[tennisgurl]

 

Did it never occur to Wells, either, that in going into the past, he created the Flash, rather than destroying him?

 

You would think that people would eventually realize more about these time travel related issues. Its like the killing Hitler thing, where the second you shoot Hitler, it turns out it was actually Hitlers dad, and now Hitler is pissed and becomes...Hitler. Or something. Basically, messing with the past never ever ends well!

[twoods]

So many emotions during this finale. I kept crying during all the Barry/Joe scenes, his scene with his dad and Iris, and then that goodbye scene with his mom gutted me. I really expected him to save his mom. Grant better get a freaking Emmy nom next season.

Then they go kill off Eddie! I grew to like him and even though I am team Barry/Iris, I was rooting for Eddie to be happy too. The vasectomy nonsense cracks me up. Eobard was going to kill Barry, then everyone else so Eddie thought the best thing to stop him at that moment was to kill himself. He didn't have time to go to the Urologist to get a vasectomy.

I hope that TC comes back next season somehow because STAR labs won't be the same without him, and maybe Eddie will come back too? Is it September yet?

Edited May 20, 2015 by twoods

[Actionmage]

I generally enjoyed this season finale. It had me happy and sad cry. Cisco was confirmed as a geek badass.  Barry and Joe wrecked me one more time.

 

We knew that, somehow, trying to save Nora was going to be attempted. At least we learned that Barry will listen, primarily, to himself. Asking everyone did seem a bit disingenuous; he would have gone to try to save his mom no matter what anyone else said. The man sitting in jail, falsely accused of his wife's murder even said to not go. The Bajoran Prophets were/are/will be curious why humans get stuck in time so often if we insist we're linear creatures.  I disagree with his decision once the potential destruction of this sector of space came up as a possibility, but then, it's his ass the Lanterns are gonna come and spank for faffing about with time and space willy-nilly.

 

I am of the theory that nothing got "erased" because it's from this point that Eobard doesn't exist in this reality/timeline. Yes, it seems that should mean he can't come back, but  the earlier timejump showed that things can happen at a later time. I am meaning Joe, specifically. While he wasn't injured in the exact way that he was with Weather Wizard, Grodd had messed up one of his legs and it was in the same bent/skewed angle as it was with Weather Wizard. 

 

I was so jazzed at the sight of that winged helmet! The same way quarks has loved the Green Lantern nods. I am waiting for crazy strong ambassador from some lost island nods, but I have waited almost forty years for a reboot of my princess. I am willing to wait a bit more for a mention.

 

Just because Eddie is lost to the Now, he was sucked into the wormhole, so he could land anywhere and anytime. He may have died to end Eobard's threat, but my soap opera training refuses to believe there is absolutely no hope for Eddie to return in some way. Eddie and Plastique '16!

 

Still sifting through what I  think about the bits that made me roll my eyes, but as I watched, I enjoyed myself. Season 2 seems so far away!

[opus]

As many on twitter have noted couldn't Eddie have had a vasectomy?"

Or just never have sex? (Yeah, OK, suicide was the easier way to go).

[driedfruit]

"Cisco I'm sorry." ..."Not for killing you, I'm sure I had a good reason." I cackled. I love that whole scene, Carlos and TC continue to have the most interesting dynamic on the show.

Edited May 20, 2015 by driedfruit

[transgojobot]

Victor Garber will always and forever be SpyDaddy to me; I accept no substitutions. 

 

However, after tonight, I will temporarily christen him SciDaddy, and will look forward to his contributions to Legends of Tomorrow.

[Racj82]

As many on twitter have noted couldn't Eddie have had a vasectomy?"

As I have said elsewhere, when exactly was Eddie suppose to do have a operation done while Barry and his friends were about to be murdered? Thawne was about to kill Barry. If Barry dies, they are all fucked. He did what he had to do in a split second decision for everybody. I don;t understand why people keep questioning this specific event. It's the most logical thing a hero did in the finale. Everyone else were making questionable decisions left and right. Eddie's makes perfect sense.

[millennium]

I enjoyed the finale.   It never occurred to me that the characters were stupid.   Or selfish.   That's the thing about a good story.   It sweeps you up and carries you along and you enjoy the ride so much you don't think to ask questions.  When it's over, what you remember is how it made you feel.  The exhilaration, the emotion, the sheer fun.

 

I hope somehow they can revive the original Dr. Wells from his remains next season (if Arrow/League of Tomorrow can do it with Sara Lance, why not Wells?).   The Flash needs Tom Cavanaugh. 

 

I loved the future Flash signalling Barry to stay put.  If only our future selves could steer us all in the right direction at the important crossroads in our lives.

 

Cisco continues to be a great character.   I have a lot of affection for him.   The actor deserves a Best Supporting award of some kind.   His scenes with Wells were electrifying.

 

I'm a bit disheartened to learn that Caitlin Snow will eventually become super villain Killer Frost.   I like Caitlin just as she is.    Ronnie's return to his former self seemed kind of sudden, and the wedding a bit hasty, but okay (loved Dr. Stein's "let's not fight on our wedding day" snark).   And Crowded House!   Did Barry zip back to 1987 to buy the single?

[Duke Silver]

I just can't get beyond the simple fact that Barry decided to risk annihilation of mankind so he could go back to save one person, albeit his mom, but then once there, he decided not to.  He risked that and ultimately did not follow-through.  What's fucking heroic about that?

 

Iris chose Eddie; Eddie selflessly sacrificed himself to make sure Eobard never happened.  I'm supposed to pull for a Barry/Iris pairing???  I don't ship....ever, but even if I did, I don't think that'd make me cheer for Barry/Iris.

 

Sorry y'all, but this was not awesome.

[chelsie]

- Henry is a scientist and probably reads books that feature time travel so can afford to be logical about possible side affects of Barry going back and saving mother. -- Joe is a high (I'm assuming) ranking detective with limited if any scientific knowledge so it would not occur to him the possible side-effects; he does not appear to watch tv on or off screen.

-Iris would also have limited knowledge of time travel despite of her blog; she appeared to find out about Barry's possible timetravelling off screen. I

- Barry has gone back in time before and changed the past and no adverse effects were realised.

[millennium]

I just can't get beyond the simple fact that Barry decided to risk annihilation of mankind so he could go back to save one person, albeit his mom, but then once there, he decided not to.  He risked that and ultimately did not follow-through.  What's fucking heroic about that?

 

 

The heart-rending sacrifice of a lifelong dream, denying himself the joy of realizing the impossible wish he has clung to since he was a little boy.

 

If you can't see the heroism in that, sorry, I can't help you.

[thuganomics85]

I can't remember, but wasn't there already buildings starting to crumble thanks to the black-hole the little trip caused?  So, unless they just happened to vacated at the time (it's a holiday!), then there has to at least be a few people who probably aren't appreciating Barry's little heroism act, at the moment.  I'm sure when they wake-up in the afterlife or hospital, they aren't going to go "He did it for love!  That's understandable!", but more likely, a sarcastic "Thanks, Barry!", about their predicaments. 

 

But, I guess that isn't really new to the DC Universe (hello, Man of Steel!)

Edited May 20, 2015 by thuganomics85

[Oscirus]

I must say that I didn't hate this finale. Victor garber stole the show. 

 

Are they moving away from Barry-Iris because that relationship seemed practically non-existent in this episode.  Though I must admit that I liked the rooftop scene because neither one of them had ulterior motives.  More of that next season please.

 

I'm a bit pissed at the Pannabaker for hyping up Frost's appearance at that comic con. That was just a cheap glimpse. Also the Ronnie-Caitlin wedding just felt like filler.

 

Joe- Barry, meh. It's hard for me to like those scenes when it's pandering so damn hard. We get it Joe is like a father to Barry move on.

 

Cisco the breakout star of this season having such a small role in the finale was surprising.

 

Eobard was at his best with the Hannibal lector stuff. I just wish he would have had scenes with everybody during this episode.

 

I seriously do think that Eddie was shortchanged as a character. Probably even worse then Iris.   They missed a real opportunity with him. I don't se how his death is  like Tommy's though. Tommy had to save Laura because she did something stupid. Eddie sacrificed himself for the greater good.

 

Has there been any protagonist on tv who has gotten his ass whipped more then Barry? I get that he's jut getting started, but there should at least be some wins over major foes.  I thought  Grant's performance hit all the right notes but something felt off. It felt like the writers went through a checklist with his character.

 

Not much of a cliffhanger when it's obvious that the star will survive.

 

The story itself was fine but eh, I'm over the time control stuff. Why did it feel like so much of this finale was made in order to start promoting the crossover?

 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

Even putting aside that Barry was selfishly risking the butterfly effects that might come from saving his mother, that Barry was listening to a super-villain who has literally dedicated his life to destroying him personally, that Barry just got done making a deal with a villain that backfired in a big way literally hours before this episode took place, that Barry learned that he might destroy the world if he went back in time and didn't do things just so, I have another big issue:

 

Why on earth would the Flash Mob allow RF to use a time machine to do God knows what? And actually not just allow him to use one, but actually build it for him, apparently correctly, even solving a problem for him that he didn't anticipate? Yes, RF says that he plans to go back to his own time. How can you believe him? Maybe he's going to use the time sphere to eliminate the Flash. Why not be "Thanks for the help getting Barry up to speed and allowing him to save his mom. Enjoy the rest of eternity in the Pipeline!" (Or as long as you are going to maintain an illegal extrajudicial prison, why not go all the way and just kill him?)

 

For that matter, why did RF need Barry? Why didn't he just build his time sphere, create the wormhole and go back to the future in all the time he had available to him between the Flash's creation and now? 

 

They pulled the Tommy Merlyn story again with Eddie Thawne. These idiots need new writers. You cannot keep recycling the same stuff. The viewers can see that.

 

Yeah, there's the aspect of Eddie's death ends the love triangle and creates the possibility for the OTP to proceed without opposition.

 

But Tommy's death was not something that I think was as likely as Eddie's. Nor was it as heroic. Tommy died basically by accident. Eddie took himself out to prevent Eobard's evil to spread.

 

So when The Flash fought Spartacus (can not remember the character's name) he was moving with a speed of less than Mach 2. Yet he was able to break time continuum. Fighter pilots fly over Mach 2 regularly. I never read any of them altering our timeline. 

 

"Spartacus" is the Weather Wizard. Wells semi-explained in the previous time travel eps that it was not just a matter of speed but also of Barry's biochemistry and emotions all potentially affecting whether he can/does time travel.

 

As others have pointed out, in this particular case there was also the effects of the particle accelerator that may have played a role.

Lol- I wonder if Barry's going to start calling Joe "Dad" now. That was a tad heavy-handed, since he already said to him earlier that he was his other father. All that's left is for Joe to officially adopt him (unless he already did- Barry wasn't actually adopted by him as a kid, was he?)

 

Barry has called Joe Dad at least a couple times in the past if memory serves.

 

- Henry is a scientist and probably reads books that feature time travel so can afford to be logical about possible side affects of Barry going back and saving mother. -- Joe is a high (I'm assuming) ranking detective with limited if any scientific knowledge so it would not occur to him the possible side-effects; he does not appear to watch tv on or off screen.

-Iris would also have limited knowledge of time travel despite of her blog; she appeared to find out about Barry's possible timetravelling off screen. I

- Barry has gone back in time before and changed the past and no adverse effects were realised.

Maybe it's because we have had a diet of sci-fi, but it seems like it should be obvious that if you attempt to change one thing, you don't know a) if you will be successful or b) if there are going to be unintended consequences even if you are successful.

 

Even assuming that Barry had no familiarity with that sort of sci-fi, the basic principle that you don't know what will happen if you attempt to change the past was explained to him (and the rest of the Flash Mob) in this very episode by Stein, and in a one-on-one conversation that Barry had with RF. For him to so blatantly disregard that, is a mark of how far away he is from being a hero.

 

Barry's change of the past was of the relatively recent past -- he went back one day and armed with future knowledge, he managed to make changes fairly smoothly. RF claimed that time had almost a living, karmic quality to it where it would try to correct attempts to mess with it. Now it could be that RF was just messing with Barry's mind. The way the episode was presented, the presence of Cold, Glider and Heat Wave, their kidnapping of Cisco and his brother, was implied to be the unforeseen consequence of Barry's time travel.

 

But even assuming for discussion's sake that the theory RF was peddling was just bunk, the fact that Barry went back in time a day and managed to use his extra information to save Singh, capture Weather Wizard, and try to romance Iris does not mean that there would also be no unintended consequence for going back 14 years.

[bluebonnet]

The heart-rending sacrifice of a lifelong dream, denying himself the joy of realizing the impossible wish he has clung to since he was a little boy.

 

If you can't see the heroism in that, sorry, I can't help you.

We all have dreams.  Not all of us are willing to risk the universe in order to realize those dreams.  No one should be called a hero just because they don't erase a timeline.  

 

In any case, his lifelong dream had been to have his father released from prison.  His father is still in the same place, only now at risk of being sucked up into a hole.  Real heroism would have been not to do exactly what the villain suggests he does and not create a wormhole that simulations showed was likely to create a singularity. 

Edited May 20, 2015 by bluebonnet

[Duke Silver]

We all have dreams.  Not all of us are willing to risk the universe in order to realize those dreams.  No one should be called a hero just because they don't erase a timeline.  

 

In any case, his lifelong dream had been to have his father released from prison.  His father is still in the same place, only now at risk of being sucked up into a hole.  Real heroism would have been not to do exactly what the villain suggests he does and not create a wormhole that simulations showed was likely to create a singularity. 

 

Thank you...yes, my earlier post didn't complete the thought as yours just did.  Barry sacrificing his "lifelong dream" is all well and good.  Risking the entirety of mankind to do so isn't.

[millennium]

Sheesh, don't need a wormhole to suck all the fun out of a story.

[bluebonnet]

Story can still be fun even when one acknowledges what actually happened.  I certainly enjoyed the crap out of that finale, and I've enjoyed the entire season, even though Barry is the most unheroic 'hero' to ever grace my screen.  

[Oscirus]

I might just watch the next season of Flash just to see how incompetent Barry gets.  This season alone, he managed to get people to ship the wrong couple, he made Captain Cold look like a boss, loses to the main bad guy in his own finale and watches as someone else actually does the heroic thing. I'm starting to think that Eobard sped up Flash's creation for revenge against Central City.

 

Eobard, you sir are a genius.

[ruby24]

 

Barry has called Joe Dad at least a couple times in the past if memory serves.

 

Did he really? I remember him saying that he did all the things for him that a dad does, but has he actually called him "Dad" before?

[nksarmi]

Dont they have to somehow undo Eddies death? If Eddie dies and Eobord is never born then he never travels on time and this version of the Flash is never created. Maybe Rip Hunter will appear in season 2, ep. 1 and help them clean things up.

[shrewd.buddha]

The first 45 minutes were totally boring. .. and then a cliffhanger.  I was underwhelmed. 

 

They seem to make up new time-travel rules every time it happens. The first time it happened, the other Flash disappeared. This time there were three versions of Barry during the same moment. And does Flash just 'wish' himself back to his present time? 

[phoenics]

About Eddie - I do not believe he is dead.

Wells' time machine (ha!) didn't work with tungsten, so they replaced it with COBALT panels.

The time machine was sucked into the wormhole. Eddie was sucked into the wormhole.

Eddie and the cobalt panels will merge.

Eddie will become Cobalt Blue.

Ta da.

[quarks]

As I have said elsewhere, when exactly was Eddie suppose to do have a operation done while Barry and his friends were about to be murdered? Thawne was about to kill Barry. If Barry dies, they are all fucked. He did what he had to do in a split second decision for everybody. I don;t understand why people keep questioning this specific event. It's the most logical thing a hero did in the finale. Everyone else were making questionable decisions left and right. Eddie's makes perfect sense.

 

He couldn't have had the vasectomy during the Reverse Flash/Flash fight scene, no. But he had the perfect opportunity right after his conversation with Dr. Stein and the whole you have your own destiny thing, and even right after going to Iris' workplace. Says he wants his destiny with her, then pops off to the urologist, and boom! Reverse Flash is gone.  Vasectomies aren't major operations and don't take that long. From a purely practical perspective, yes, it would have taken Eddie some time in real life to find a urologist with an open appointment less than three months out, but that could have been handwaved.

 

Yes, this way, Eddie got a big heroic moment and the season got to end with a big black hole, but sneaking a little vasectomy in there and having everyone head back into Star Labs to find that Reverse Flash is gone - and then, as Eddie explains what he did, slowly panning to having everything else shimmering and changing because without Reverse Flash, Barry didn't become the Flash this season and therefore didn't meet anyone at Star Labs, also Star Labs is totally different because the original Wells is running it - this all could have been fun and a really cool cliffhanger of, ok, how does the show get Barry back from this?  But not the way the episode went.

As I have said elsewhere, when exactly was Eddie suppose to do have a operation done while Barry and his friends were about to be murdered? Thawne was about to kill Barry. If Barry dies, they are all fucked. He did what he had to do in a split second decision for everybody. I don;t understand why people keep questioning this specific event. It's the most logical thing a hero did in the finale. Everyone else were making questionable decisions left and right. Eddie's makes perfect sense.

 

He couldn't have had the vasectomy during the Reverse Flash/Flash fight scene, no. But he had the perfect opportunity right after his conversation with Dr. Stein and the whole you have your own destiny thing, and even right after going to Iris' workplace. Says he wants his destiny with her, then pops off to the urologist, and boom! Reverse Flash is gone.  Vasectomies aren't major operations and don't take that long. From a purely practical perspective, yes, it would have taken Eddie some time in real life to find a urologist with an open appointment less than three months out, but that could have been handwaved.

 

Yes, this way, Eddie got a big heroic moment and the season got to end with a big black hole, but sneaking a little vasectomy in there and having everyone head back into Star Labs to find that Reverse Flash is gone - and then, as Eddie explains what he did, slowly panning to having everything else shimmering and changing because without Reverse Flash, Barry didn't become the Flash this season and therefore didn't meet anyone at Star Labs, also Star Labs is totally different because the original Wells is running it - this all could have been fun and a really cool cliffhanger of, ok, how does the show get Barry back from this?  But not the way the episode went.

[MarkHB]

I'm not sure where I stand on the vasectomy suggestion itself from a dramatic perspective, but if I can handwave the marriage license I can handwave getting into seeing a urologist.  I definitely wouldn't have Caitlin do it, though... just because she's an MD doesn't mean you necessarily want her using scissors on your junk.  They specialize for a reason.
 

I might just watch the next season of Flash just to see how incompetent Barry gets.  This season alone, he managed to get people to ship the wrong couple, he made Captain Cold look like a boss, loses to the main bad guy in his own finale and watches as someone else actually does the heroic thing. I'm starting to think that Eobard sped up Flash's creation for revenge against Central City.
 
Eobard, you sir are a genius.

Barry didn't save his mother (which likely would have seriously broken the timeline and was probably the crux of Thawne's plan), but he made it back in time to stop Thawne from escaping.  That was his heroic part (also trying to unwind a black hole by reversing the vortex around it, which makes zero sense if you understand a little physics but hey, comics).  He wasn't about to kill Eddie and in all likelihood never would have suggested anything of the sort; that was Eddie's choice.  So I can't say "Flash wasn't a hero" because Eddie did something Flash could never have done.

[cambridgeguy]

I just can't get beyond the simple fact that Barry decided to risk annihilation of mankind so he could go back to save one person, albeit his mom, but then once there, he decided not to.  He risked that and ultimately did not follow-through.  What's fucking heroic about that?

The risk with the wormhole was always there but if he had saved his mom that definitely would have changed things - the entire point was that doing so would have unpredictable consequences for the present.  He shouldn't have gone back in the first place (listen to your dad!) but once there at least he realized he had no right to play God.

 

By the way, this is what Eddie should have tried (spoilers for Flashpoint).  RF was busy speechifying so he might not have been able to react in time.  Ollie did nail him with an arrow last episode, after all.

 

After all, Eddie killing himself just created a massive paradox - the consequences of that could be far worse than RF winning, murdering everyone, and generally running around.  The guy's a villain but his main motivation is killing Barry, not destroying the world.

Edited May 20, 2015 by cambridgeguy

[Glory]

Eddie! You ridiculous, handsome, man. What did you do?! I will miss your sexy voice and your pretty, pretty face. Come back!

 

So... Caitlin has time to put on a full wedding gown and do her hair but Ronnie can't even change into a sport coat? Poor form, Ronnie. Poor form. 

 

Victor Garber and Cisco should get all the lines. Ever. 

 

Barry: I need you to build a time machine.

Cisco: Go on... 

 

I cannot believe they ended it on such a cliffhanger though. I enjoyed every second of this episode and felt as if it flew by. Grant was outstanding in the scene with his mom and I cried a lot. Also, John Wesley Shipp did GOOD when he was giving that speech to Barry. More tears. I loved it. 

[SimoneS]

I am more tolerant about Barry going back to the past to save his mother even as he risks the earth. It is preposterous, but I am willing to go along with the suspension of reality. Besides, in the end Barry made the hard decision to let the past stay as is. He gets tons of kudos from me for making that decision. What I have a problem with is that after the debacle with treacherous Cold that Barry and the gang were again trusting the word of villain. It is ridiculous that Barry would believe a word that Eobard says. 

 

I am positive that we will see Wells and Eddie again next season. This is a regular tv show. It does not kill off main characters (I mean, actually fire actors) like The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones. 

Edited May 20, 2015 by SimoneS

[driedfruit]

He couldn't have had the vasectomy during the Reverse Flash/Flash fight scene, no. But he had the perfect opportunity right after his conversation with Dr. Stein and the whole you have your own destiny thing, and even right after going to Iris' workplace. Says he wants his destiny with her, then pops off to the urologist, and boom! Reverse Flash is gone.  Vasectomies aren't major operations and don't take that long. From a purely practical perspective, yes, it would have taken Eddie some time in real life to find a urologist with an open appointment less than three months out, but that could have been handwaved.

 

I could buy Eddie not getting a vasectomy because he had hopes of having children with Iris. That's a good enough motivation for me. And as Eobard was adamant about Eddie not getting the girl, Eddie would've been certain that a married life with Iris plus their eventual children would be enough to undo fate.