S07.E06: Double Down On Delusion

[Pollock]

How many people would let someone in their house that is calling them a fucking bitch?    What I still don't get is Heather said foyer several times so I am concluding they were inside and Sonja told them (and the crew) not to come upstairs.  I also noticed that Sonja used every stupid excuse on the planet instead of the bona fide reason and that was she was shuffling around making child care arrangements.  No need for Heather, Kristen or the Bravo cameras to capture that moment.  In Bravo world it would become Sonja left the kid home alone to go party for the weekend in Atlantic City.  Sonja would end up back in court fighting for custody because she was stupid enough to let Bravo come in and film and edit a conversation.

It wasn't the fact that she didn't let them in the problem, which could be annoying but manageable, the root of it was how she did it imho.

 

Whatever the reason Sonja had to not let them come in, rude but within her rights, mess inside or stuff happening with her daughter, she could just text them "Sorry, I can't have the cameras inside right now, I'll explain. Thank you for understanding." 

It would have been discreet, the women would probably understand and helped cover whatever as it seems they did numerous times for each other. There was no reason to adopt the Lady Morgan schtick with them. But that would require for Sonja to be humble and apologetic. 

 

I'm low maintenance but I would have been apoplectic too if Sonja gave me that attitude, especially if I made certain in the past "Lady Morgan" got to bed safe and not choking on vomit or worse after "one of those night". 

I like Sonja, I'm sad to see her lose grasp on reality like that but boy, she's frustrating.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I wonder why Bethenny equates random public urination with connecting to the average American? It's like, "Despite my millions I'm still just like you! I put my pants on one leg at a time, usually after taking them off to pee on the side of the road."

[Petunia13]

Everything about Carols kooky style, devil may care behavior, existential attitude, fiddle dee dee dialogue, tragic history, and current cradle robbing dating life is acting like she is the new Maude from Harold and Maude

And there is only ONE Maude. This presentation is a photocopy of a copy of Maude that ripped and there was no tape, so then was drawn freehand with a mechanical pencil on a notebook page with some doodles of stick figures and bunnies . Shes like Napolean Dynamite's version of a manic pixie girl except Mrs Robinson-ified.

[motorcitymom65]

It wasn't the fact that she didn't let them in the problem, which could be annoying but manageable, the root of it was how she did it imho.

 

Whatever the reason Sonja had to not let them come in, rude but within her rights, mess inside or stuff happening with her daughter, she could just text them "Sorry, I can't have the cameras inside right now, I'll explain. Thank you for understanding." 

It would have been discreet, the women would probably understand and helped cover whatever as it seems they did numerous times for each other. There was no reason to adopt the Lady Morgan schtick with them. But that would require for Sonja to be humble and apologetic. 

 

I'm low maintenance but I would have been apoplectic too if Sonja gave me that attitude, especially if I made certain in the past "Lady Morgan" got to bed safe and not choking on vomit or worse after "one of those night". 

I like Sonja, I'm sad to see her lose grasp on reality like that but boy, she's frustrating. 

 

This exactly. Heather said in her blog that one of the interns literally said "Lady Morgan is not taking visitors". I would have been screaming on the street, although no one would have heard me over the construction noise. There is nothing that I have ever seen in these ladies that would lead me to believe they wouldn't have understood and supported Sonja if she would have acted like an actual person. If she would have said "hey, I cannot let the cameras in right now (insert whatever stupid reason she had) and I need to ask you a favor. I know it is so cold and raining and this is rude, but can you please just wait in the Starbucks down the road while I sort all of this out? I will be there just as soon as I can". Instead she acts like it is just no big deal to keep people waiting outside in the cold rain. Why would they be bothered by this? If there is one thing I think about Heather it is that she is a serious friend. Her mentioning the fact that she has taken care of Sonja in the past and made sure that she got home safely was to illustrate the fact that she cares about Sonja. There is always a lot of discussion on whether or not these ladies are actually friends or just co-workers. I think that Heather was saying that she has been more than a co-worker to Sonja; that she has been her friend and worried over her. Now Sonja is taking a big dump on that friendship by treating her so poorly and calling her a "visitor". 

[WireWrap]

Why am I not surprised Carole made a snide comment (indirectly snide, but still snide) about Sonja's John-John babble on her Twitter?

 

https://twitter.com/CaroleRadziwill/status/598530148774879232

She was answering a question someone tweeted her and some here also thought her comment about JK Jr was wrong as well.

[motorcitymom65]

She was answering a question someone tweeted her and some here also thought her comment about JK Jr was wrong as well.

Yea, I was fine with the tweet since several people have wondered what Carole thought of Sonja's comment. 

[AnnaL]

If I was in the situation that Heather and Kristen were I would had been pissed, that is for sure; however it didn't sit well with me that fact that Heather used that incident to disclose that she had taken Sonja to her house and up the stairs when she was falling down drunk.

 

Sonja definitely is a drunk , that we all know , but Heather revealing this incident makes me thing that Heather has never really cared for Sonja, I have had friends whom I have had to drive home and put to bed, not many times but sometimes and I have never used that particular piece of information to slam them back when we have had a disagreement.  

 

Heather was right to be upset and even if she overreacted a bit that is just who she is, Heather just go defcon over almost anything and in this case she was well within her rights, I just don't think she needed to disclose the other incident. I wonder if the one getting drunk was Carole and had to be carried up the stairs if Heather would have use any argument to throw that in her face.

[ryebread]

This is how I think Foyergate went down.

The ladies were invited in. In to the foyer - that bottom level where the opera singer sang. We saw them in there, Ramona said she used the bathroom. It's slightly below ground so it was cold. (My basement is easily 10 degrees colder than the rest of the house.) And maybe she can't afford to keep all levels fully heated. But it was inside. Sonja was upstairs getting ready.

Sounds like Heather tried to barge her way up the stairs. You hear Sonja say that. I think that's when the intern said the Lady Morgan B.S. Who knows if Heather got all Mother Fucker at that point and got the others stirred up like she did with Aviva. Sonja tells them to go back to the car. But the car is circling the block with their luggage because a car just doesn't sit on a NYC side street when there is construction going on. That's why when you see them on the street, they're like "Where's the car?" Well he's circling the block. He didn't know you were going to get thrown out.

Sonja was rude if she didn't give them the full heads up. And for throwing them out. But if Heather was all bossy and 'We want upstairs and a cup of tea', and when denied started calling Sonja a fucking bitch, she has some responsibility in how that all played out. It appears Sonja never wanted them to get out of the car in the first place and wasnt prepared to give them tea. She let them in, they caused a ruckus, she threw them out.

No blog from Sonja yet. That scene was so disjointed. I'm not completely buying it the way Heather is selling it. She's made a mountain out of a holemill before.

Edited May 14, 2015 by ryebread

[eXiled]

Who knows if Heather got all Mother Fucker at that point . . .

This made my morning, ryebread. In my head, you said it in Aviva's bemused voice.

[WireWrap]

This is how I think Foyergate went down.

The ladies were invited in. In to the foyer - that bottom level where the opera singer sang. We saw them in there, Ramona said she used the bathroom. It's slightly below ground so it was cold. (My basement is easily 10 degrees colder than the rest of the house.) And maybe she can't afford to keep all levels fully heated. But it was inside. Sonja was upstairs getting ready.

Sounds like Heather tried to barge her way up the stairs. You hear Sonja say that. I think that's when the intern said the Lady Morgan B.S. Who knows if Heather got all Mother Fucker at that point and got the others stirred up like she did with Aviva. Sonja tells them to go back to the car. But the car is circling the block with their luggage because a car just doesn't sit on a NYC side street when there is construction going on. That's why when you see them on the street, they're like "Where's the car?" Well he's circling the block. He didn't know you were going to get thrown out.

Sonja was rude if she didn't give them the full heads up. And for throwing them out. But if Heather was all bossy and 'We want upstairs and a cup of tea', and when denied started calling Sonja a fucking bitch, she has some responsibility in how that all played out. It appears Sonja never wanted them to get out of the car in the first place and wasnt prepared to give them tea. She let them in, they caused a ruckus, she threw them out.

No blog from Sonja yet. That scene was so disjointed. I'm not completely buying it the way Heather is selling it. She's made a mountain out of a holemill before.

Wait, What? When did Ramona say she used the bathroom at Sonja's house and then why did she have to go during the limo ride? Did I miss this? We have no idea if Heather or anyone else "tried to barge her way up the stairs" but we do know that Sonja told them to go outside to the non existent limo. Sonja knew the limo was not there when she got back to the house and found Heather/Kristen waiting in the entryway. IMO, Sonja was still upset at Heather for daring to ask her about the meeting with Bethenny and that is why she told them to wait outside, she was punishing Heather. Oh, and they did not arrive at Sonja's house in the limo nor did anyone ever say they asked for tea at her house either!

If I was in the situation that Heather and Kristen were I would had been pissed, that is for sure; however it didn't sit well with me that fact that Heather used that incident to disclose that she had taken Sonja to her house and up the stairs when she was falling down drunk.

 

Sonja definitely is a drunk , that we all know , but Heather revealing this incident makes me thing that Heather has never really cared for Sonja, I have had friends whom I have had to drive home and put to bed, not many times but sometimes and I have never used that particular piece of information to slam them back when we have had a disagreement.  

 

Heather was right to be upset and even if she overreacted a bit that is just who she is, Heather just go defcon over almost anything and in this case she was well within her rights, I just don't think she needed to disclose the other incident. I wonder if the one getting drunk was Carole and had to be carried up the stairs if Heather would have use any argument to throw that in her face.

Heather was referring to the trip last season to her house in the Berkshires and it was talked about the next morning, on camera before yoga, this was not a secret.

Edited May 14, 2015 by WireWrap

[The Mighty Peanut]

Who knows if Heather got all Mother Fucker at that point and got the others stirred up like she did with Aviva

If she did I would pay money to see it. Can you imagine? Let me in Lady Motherfucking Morgan, it's motherfucking cold in this motherfucking foyer, yo. Hollaaaa

Edited May 14, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[Beden]

 

It didn't happen on the Garden State or New Jersey Turnpike, I checked and it was a two-lane road somewhere in New Jersey.

In defense of my poor, oft misaligned state, the NJ Turnpike is a major access road running north to south, is part of the 95 corridor for the East coast and is often 6 lanes, going down to 4 lanes in the less heavily populated south of the state. There are numerous exits and rest stops. It's a major road, heavily used.

 

It's also possible, as noted, that they may have been on a smaller road leading to AC, but this is still hardly a dirt trail through the hinderlands.

 

When I saw Bethenny (?) headed towards the back of the limo, saying she had to pee, I thought for a moment that there may have been an on board loo, ala a bus or plane...I guess not.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Beden

[trimthatfat]

According to Bethenny, in some interview, she said that because of her "SG" line, Bravo now has a "Bethenny Clause" in every HW's contract. Bravo now gets a % of all HW sales. She was the first to hit it big with products and they learned from it.

Really? I wonder if that would include an established brand like Yummie Tummie. I couldn't see Heather agreeing to that.

[ryebread]

Wait, What? When did Ramona say she used the bathroom at Sonja's house and then why did she have to go during the limo ride? Did I miss this? We have no idea if Heather or anyone else "tried to barge her way up the stairs" but we do know that Sonja told them to go outside to the non existent limo. Sonja knew the limo was not there when she got back to the house and found Heather/Kristen waiting in the entryway. IMO, Sonja was still upset at Heather for daring to ask her about the meeting with Bethenny and that is why she told them to wait outside, she was punishing Heather. Oh, and they did not arrive at Sonja's house in the limo nor did anyone ever say they asked for tea at her house either!

 

Ramona said she used the bathroom.  Then Dorinda asked if it was a 17th century toilet.  Sonja said that they tried to come up the stairs and she told them 'no'.  Sounds bargey to me.  Heather was the one who mentioned she should have been offered tea.

 

I agree it wasn't handled right but Sonja, imo, isn't fully to blame for how this panned out.

 

We don't know how the 3 arrived at Sonja's.  Together in another limo or separate.

 

I missed this. Did Sonja leave the townhouse?

Sonja knew the limo was not there when she got back to the house and found Heather/Kristen waiting in the entryway.

[ryebread]

If I was in the situation that Heather and Kristen were I would had been pissed, that is for sure; however it didn't sit well with me that fact that Heather used that incident to disclose that she had taken Sonja to her house and up the stairs when she was falling down drunk.

 

Agreed.  And the way she disclosed it to us.  So slooooooowly and with hand gestures. LOL  Like she's talking to kindergartners.  Admittedly I talked to my class of 5 year olds that way, too, but with a whole lot - a WHOLE lot - less condescension. 

 

This made my morning, ryebread. In my head, you said it in Aviva's bemused voice.

"Where'd you learn that?  In prison?"  LOL.  I know Aviva was roundly hated but that was one of the stand out lines in the season for me.  It was delivered calmly off the cuff and then she walked away bemused.

 

There was no time to rehearse it for a TH.  It just rolled and it was a perfect response to Heather's hissy fit.

[pbutler111]

Any assertions Carole makes on a national television program are subject to critique and deconstruction. Personally, although I am not a fan of her personality, I think it's great that she seems to be happy with her appearance. However, I suspect that if a more polarizing personality (say, Aviva or Bethenny) or a more conventional/stereotypical beauty (Alexis Bellino, for example) dropped multiple references to their enviable faces or flawless physiques, there would be a lot less tolerance for their confidence. I try not to pejoratively remark upon physical characteristics outside of one's control because, well, they're outside of one's control, but the inverse of that is: if aesthetics are largely based on luck, what's there to tout? I recall multiple viewers lamenting Aviva's invocations of her educational pedigree (and Heather got a dig in on the show); while Vassar and a JD are partially subjective like any accomplishments, they involve more work that one's physical features. Tamra Judge's compulsion to tout herself as the "hottest housewife" is not without backlash in my opinion - she makes the effort to advertise herself as representative of beauty, so why wouldn't audiences respond to that effort? This page is replete with observations of Sonja's "delusions" because she still makes attempts to present herself as wealthy. Lots of people would consider residency in an UES townhouse sufficient testament to wealthy, paper bankruptcy or not. From my perspective, Carole has gone out ofher way to demean others on several occasions (sneering at Aviva "that was a letter to your mother, not a book" before Aviva started any insinuations; sneering at LuAnn for having the temerity to ask for design samples despite not being the First Lady; characterizing stay at home motherhood as "nothing"), so her subjective contentions and statements will inevitably elicit comment.

 

You've just taken a whole lot of things out of context and given them a meaning they didn't actually have.  If admire Carole's confidence, perhaps part of the reason is that, unlike some of the other "Housewives" you named, Carole actually does seem to be comfortable in her own skin, as evidenced by the fact that -- again, unlike the others you named -- she hasn't felt the need to alter her face or body with surgery or injections, nor does she walk around with inches of makeup on her face, overdone hair and nails, and dripping with bling.  As for her comments to Aviva and Luann, in the instances you cited, Aviva actually had already taken a dig at Carole when she made that thoroughly justified comment (as a writer myself, I remember that scene extremely well, and applaud Carole for not having actually lunged at Aviva's throat at this point), and Luann's behavior in asking for stuff for free from a friend of Carole's was, in fact, incredibly tacky.

[eXiled]

"Where'd you learn that?  In prison?"  LOL.  I know Aviva was roundly hated but that was one of the stand out lines in the season for me.  It was delivered calmly off the cuff and then she walked away bemused.

There was no time to rehearse it for a TH.  It just rolled and it was a perfect response to Heather's hissy fit.

That moment is the only time I ever appreciated Aviva's presence on my TV screen. I loathed her at first sight, could tell she was an attention-seeking narcissist, and pretty much tuned her out whenever possible. But that quick comeback to Heather's hardcore motherfuckering was golden. Aviva's barb was precise, cutting, and hilarious. I was born, raised in, and continue to reside in (a quickly gentrifying) section of the "hood," yet I've never motherfucked as much as Heather has in my nearly 40 years on this planet. Heather's always doing the most in that area, so when someone calls her out on it, it tickles me something fierce.

[charmed1]

This is going to be a long season.

No kidding. But hey, OC starts June 8th. It's nothing but a trash filled, free for all snark fest and you won't feel like you're swimming in excerpts from the feminine mystique. But swimming in Vicki's Vodka is optional.

[Higgins]

You've just taken a whole lot of things out of context and given them a meaning they didn't actually have.  If admire Carole's confidence, perhaps part of the reason is that, unlike some of the other "Housewives" you named, Carole actually does seem to be comfortable in her own skin, as evidenced by the fact that -- again, unlike the others you named -- she hasn't felt the need to alter her face or body with surgery or injections, nor does she walk around with inches of makeup on her face, overdone hair and nails, and dripping with bling.  As for her comments to Aviva and Luann, in the instances you cited, Aviva actually had already taken a dig at Carole when she made that thoroughly justified comment (as a writer myself, I remember that scene extremely well, and applaud Carole for not having actually lunged at Aviva's throat at this point), and Luann's behavior in asking for stuff for free from a friend of Carole's was, in fact, incredibly tacky.

I have to disagree her face is full of fillers and Botox. The worst on this franchise by far. Not only that but she slyly hints to the fact that she doesn't eat. She does so often.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Higgins

[WireWrap]

Really? I wonder if that would include an established brand like Yummie Tummie. I couldn't see Heather agreeing to that.

Yummie Tummy was already in stores and sold on HSN well before Heather joined the show. It had nothing to do with Bravo at all. Any HW that comes up with and sells products after they join the show, like Sonja's clothing/jewelry line, have to pay a % of it to Bravo.

 

Ramona said she used the bathroom.  Then Dorinda asked if it was a 17th century toilet.  Sonja said that they tried to come up the stairs and she told them 'no'.  Sounds bargey to me.  Heather was the one who mentioned she should have been offered tea.

 

I agree it wasn't handled right but Sonja, imo, isn't fully to blame for how this panned out.

 

We don't know how the 3 arrived at Sonja's.  Together in another limo or separate.

 

I missed this. Did Sonja leave the townhouse?

I think they arrived in cabs separately. Heather said that she would have offered them tea/coffee/water had it been her house, she did not say she asked Sonja for it. Heather also said that she would never have made them stand out in the cold rain either. All Sonja had to do to shut it down was apologize to everyone but she refused and kept justifying her rude behavior. Even Bethenny could not reason with her! 

Edited May 14, 2015 by WireWrap

[Sincerely Yours]

But Carole didn't tie her banging body into a conversation. She looked at a scantily clad dancer and then in a talking head made a quip about how she would have been a stripper if she had known she would have this body at 50. It wasn't bragging to anyone or even said obnoxiously. It was a quick line in a talking head interview in which we have no idea what the production question that led to it was.

yeah I still don't like her.. :-)

[pbutler111]

I have to disagree her face is full of fillers and Botox. The worst on his franchise by far.

 

I'm sorry, but this just seems kind of nuts to me, particularly the characterization of her being the "worst on this franchise".  You may for some reason assume Carole is "full of fillers and Botox", but I see no evidence of it.  Other than natural aging, her face looks pretty much exactly as it did 20 years ago.

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/photos/before-they-were-housewives-carole/item/10119421

[ryebread]

All Sonja had to do to shut it down was apologize to everyone but she refused and kept justifying her rude behavior. Even Bethenny could not reason with her! 

 

I'll agree with that part.  No blogs yet from Sonja, Ramona, Dorinda or Kristen.  Just Heather.  I'd like to hear their experience that morning.

[trimthatfat]

Yummie Tummy was already in stores and sold on HSN well before Heather joined the show. It had nothing to do with Bravo at all. Any HW that comes up with and sells products after they join the show, like Sonja's clothing/jewelry line, have to pay a % of it to Bravo.

I know YT was in stores before Heather joined the show. That's why I asked if the clause included established brands. Nevermind.

[ryebread]

I don't want to bag on Carole today because I think it should be Heathursday.  But....she's definitely had work done since this pic.

 

[ZoloftBlob]

 

 

I thought it was very odd that Sonja didn't know that blackjack was a card game and not played with dice.

 

I honestly thought she was drunk at that point.

[bosawks]

I am curious about whether it is "Skinny Pee"........

[Sincerely Yours]

In general, when you do not like the personality of a particular HW, you tend to find any and everything they say/do as irritating. When you like a certain HW, you tend to see the positive in everything they say/do. It's that simple, you dislike Carole for what ever reason and no matter what, she grates on your last nerve all the time. I, myself, kind of like her and most things she says/does do not bother me too much. I find Bethenny really grating, arrogant and irritating but I like Heather a lot, you are the reverse if I remember correctly! LOL  

 

That said, Carole's comments about her body/looks have been in her TH and we have no idea what she was asked to elicit that specific answer. Example.....Q..What do you think of Ramona's body?.....Carole....She could never fit into my dress-------that would be cruel/mean/nasty answer. Q......Would you allow Ramona to wear your Prairie dress?..........Carole....She could never fit into my dress.....Acceptable answer. The questions asked by the producer are never heard so it is hard to take TH comments seriously or at face value unless the HW goes into great detail.  JMO

Nah, I'm not that one dimensional. Carole bugs but I don't like her based on unlikeable behavior. I haven't liked the manner in which she approaches and handles things since season one. I do appreciate her softer moments and her ability to stay neutral at times (although its so she can laugh at them cause they are oh so comical but umm Gummy Bears anyone??? I digress) but there is way more about her that is just distasteful. Things that hold more weight in the big scheme of things. Hey I don't pay her rent or her bills so she's free to act any old way she wants but all I know is that if she were in my presence or associating with me she would get checked regularly because Homie don't play.. (oh yeah, I have the sock to prove it.. ;-) Lol!

Edited May 14, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[MatildaMoody]

I have no idea what her private conversations were or weren't -- but if she did, I'd think less of her for doing so -- the women she'll take to task on screen, but the 'menfolk' get gentle treatment off camera? That would make her even more of an asshole that I assume she is (and that's saying  a lot :) And re: spliced footage -- no trickery or editing games, but I can't find the scene anywhere online  (we had this discussion at TWOP -- just tried to find it on the Wayback Machine, but it was taking way too long to bring up one page after another.) 

 

No, you missed the point of my question. How do we know that she didn't say something to Reid on camera and simply didn't make the show?

[racked]

This is how I think Foyergate went down.

The ladies were invited in. In to the foyer - that bottom level where the opera singer sang. We saw them in there, Ramona said she used the bathroom. It's slightly below ground so it was cold. (My basement is easily 10 degrees colder than the rest of the house.) And maybe she can't afford to keep all levels fully heated. But it was inside. Sonja was upstairs getting ready.

 

In her blog Heather says it was Sonja's vestibule, which I would take to mean that little area outside her front door. In Brooklyn we'd call that a stoop even if there are no steps (at least in the neighborhood I grew up in), but ryebread you may be right that she actually meant that ground level floor, which would definitely be a foyer.  I guess Heather was pissed because she thought they'd be standing there, with no place to sit, for 3 hours since Bethenny wasn't arriving until noon?  Bizarre behavior on all their parts but it does kind of feel like Heather is looking for things to get pissed about this season. I still like her though!

 

Man that picture of Carole posted upthread! Her witchy face matches her personality. 

[Pattycake2]

 

The ladies were invited in. In to the foyer - that bottom level where the opera singer sang. We saw them in there, Ramona said she used the bathroom. It's slightly below ground so it was cold. (My basement is easily 10 degrees colder than the rest of the house.) And maybe she can't afford to keep all levels fully heated. But it was inside. Sonja was upstairs getting ready.

 

According the the townhouse drawings posted upthread, the lower level has an 8/12 foot wide foye/vestibuler where I'm guessing the ladies tried to park their suitcases and from there you go through a door to the rest of the level containing a bathroom, gallery, living room/office.  You take the stairs up to the kitchen area.  The bedrooms are on the next two levels.  It sounds as if the ladies entered and tried to go up to the kitchen area and then were shooed down to the closed off foyer and told to go to Starbucks. Ramona was allowed to use the bathroom on the other side of the foyer door.  It's highly rude no matter how you look at it.

[ryebread]

I honestly thought she was drunk at that point.

 

Or she was acting dumb.  Apparently boys like dumb and vulnerable.  But Sonja prefers to act more Titan of Industry than Little Girl Lost. So drunk is probably more likely.  I'll be honest though - I was well into my 20s before I could remember that '21' was called 'Blackjack' in casinos. I'm not a gambler. To this day I still couldn't tell you what Baccarat is.

[archer1267]

Heather said in her blog that one of the interns literally said "Lady Morgan is not taking visitors".

 

 

Oh, for Pete's sake. Is Sonja really referring to herself that way? I thought "Lady Morgan" was something the other HWs said in their THs to refer to Sonja's "lady of the manor" shtick. Does she really insist on being called that?! That's beyond pretentious and delusional if so. As much as people have ribbed LuAnn about being a countess, at least she comes by that title officially, and she didn't just give herself a title. My understanding is that unless a particular title was conferred upon Sonja or John Morgan (i.e., Lord), Sonja's got no business referring to herself as Lady Morgan. (CAPTAIN Morgan is more like it, given her constant drunken state.)

[Pattycake2]

I've been thinking about this boy toy and living the high life thing going on with some of the women.  And Sonja clinging to her past.  Frankly, I think it all has to do with fear of the future.  Sure the ladies are enjoying the company of young men as well as living it up, wearing what they like, grabbing life.   Sonja, Luann, and Carole are all in their early 50's.  Somewhere in the back of their minds, they must realize that time is running out to be the belles of the ball.  Sonja is scared shitless, hence the living in the past.  Ramona is turning 59 this year.  How hard it must be to be divorced and have to start over. She said she wasn't interested in the young guy thing. Even though she looks amazing, she must know that someone 60+ dating someone 30 years their junior would not only not be all that fun, but sort of squicky. 

[DkNNy79]

Wow, there was a lot of screeching in that episode.

 

I am a punctual person and am pissed when people are late.  I understand Heather's frustration for Sonja and Bethenny being late.  I would've definitely would've made my annoyance known, although probably not as loud as Heather.  Although if Bethenny told Sonja the day before that she was going to be late, then Sonja should've let the other girls know.  Sonja knew the girls were coming over, she shouldn't have made them wait outside.  You can't clean up one room and have them wait in there?  If your house is such a mess that you can't have folks come inside, then don't arrange your house as a meeting area.

 

Bethenny and the peeing on the side of the road.  I have never had to pee so bad that I couldn't wait to pull over into a gas station or restaurant.  Unless you are a child or have a bladder condition, its just yucky.   I cringed at the flashback to her wedding and her peeing in the ice bucket.  Poor Julie and the wedding planner.

Edited May 14, 2015 by DkNNy79

[Midnight Cheese]

Wait, what?  This gave me a giggle, but I don't remember Sonja being gassy.  Does she fart with no shame?  I don't ever remember . . .  er, hearing that.  Wouldn't this shock Lu?  Yet another reason for her to look down on & talk shit bout Sonja?  Sheesh, I'm really hatin' Lu this season.  Anyhoo, I bet Bethenny would find Sonja's gassiness endearing.  Me too.

What does this have to do with LuAnn?  Sonja is very open and proud about her farting** - talking about giving 'chocolate kisses' in St. Barth's (when she and Ramona were being stupid bitches and demanding to have the staff on the boat shield them physically from the sun), the scene this past episode (LuAnn was not present, and Sonja said she'd passed gas when Dorinda mentioned the smell, after Ramona actually said, "Don't pass it in front of me," - Sonja I suppose couldn't help it, but it was an odd back and forth) and at least two other scenes.  But then again, Sonja thinks everything she does is adorable.  So if there ain't no shame in sexy-J's game, then that's that.  It doesn't have to be put at LuAnn's feet, IMO.

 

** Much like my Labrador mutt, who at least has the elegance to occasionally be frightened by his excretory functions instead of just smirking about it.  My dog, incidentally, also has a much greater chance of being swooped up and romanced by an ancient NYC multi-millionaire than Sonja, without regard to gas issues.  Hey, he's cute, doesn't have DUI's or bark about himself in the third person.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Midnight Cheese

[ryebread]

For some reason, people take it as a personal affront that she's confident (yes, perhaps overly confident at times...) in the face of NOT meeting the aesthetics of somebody like a Kristin or a Luanne.  I don't get it..

 

If it were only that simple. I've made my reasons clear why I don't like her.  It has nothing to do with her confidence.  She has a good body, though I wish she'd feed it better.  And by that I don't mean MORE.  I mean more healthily.  If she thinks her body is such a temple, good for her - she should treat it as such. She's not unattractive but even if the fairest of them all started acting the way she is, I'd think they were dumbasses, too.  She's not making sense this season and I think viewers, not just here, are reacting to that.

[archer1267]

Sonja, Luann, and Carole are all in their early 50's.  Somewhere in the back of their minds, they must realize that time is running out to be the belles of the ball.

 

Maybe it's like the female version of a conversation in Moonstruck, when Olympia Dukakis figures out why men cheat on their lives - they fear death.

 

I actually think these women could meet and marry a nice guy in their age range if they were open to men who aren't billionaires, don't own multiple homes, don't travel in the same social circles. (I suppose they'd see that as lowering themselves, darling.) I had to chuckle over an article on Leonard Lauder last year, who was at 80 the "hottest bachelor" on the NY circuit. Our own Kelly Bensimon weighed in:

 

“I know a lot of people are enthusiastic that he is single,” says unattached socialite Kelly Bensimon, who compares Lauder to Aristotle Onassis. “He’s well-bred, well-fed and well-read. He’s iconic. It’s rare when a Mr. Lauder is single.”

Edited May 14, 2015 by archer1267

[Sincerely Yours]

That would be nice if she would also refrain from tearing others down.

 

And after three seasons her little jabs, backhanded comments and accompanying chuckle just drive me up a wall. Thankfully its not a Connecticut wall... or a non size 0 wall. I've said it before but she like half the women on this show really do remind me of people who grow up in families with addicts. It's something about that need to always put people in their place.

See that's what leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. This air about her that suggests its all about what she deems relevant, or important or serious. Hey I get that a lot of what goes down with these women is chuckle worthy but at the same time she engages in so much petty and superficial bullshit as well so when she tries to be all self righteous it drives me up the wall. I mean the things that come out of her mouth can be very meanspirited but because she's ending it what that maniacal chuckle its just light hearted banter. I think it makes it more mean spirited to convey the message that it really doesn't matter to you. A lot of stuff doesn't seem to matter to Carole and that confuses me. It seems to me that Carole is just not very equipped at getting passed the superficial level, she's lacking in depth so when situations arise that requires the ability to communicate or explore emotions on different levels she seems out of her element. I feel like she tries to keep things at a very shallow level because she lacks the ability to participate in a more personal way. Maybe she does have true relationships and this is just work for her and we all decide just how personal we let work get but what she has decided seems so cold. It's very obvious what she deems worthy of her effort or attention and that's all well and good but when you are on a show that requires interaction and social activities the decision to be aloof, superior and judgmental seems to come from a mean spirited or at least arrogant place. There are better approaches and the fact that she chose a petty, self important, obnoxious approach just tells me that she doesn't opt for kinder solutions, she opts for conflict and discord in the subtlest of ways so that she still comes off as cool, neutral and not abrasive. I see through her and I don't think it's hidden very well anyway.  

[ryebread]

Bethenny and the peeing on the side of the road.  I have never had to pee so bad that I couldn't wait to pull over into a gas station or restaurant.  Unless you are a child or have a bladder condition, its just yucky.   I cringed at the flashback to her wedding and her peeing in the ice bucket.  Poor Julie and the wedding planner.

 

Poor Julie?  Poor wedding planner?  What about the poor restaurant patron that got his wine brought to him in that bucket after Bethenny used it as a latrine and the busboy merely wiped it out with a towel and put it back on the shelf?  :-)  After that scene all I could think of were the people who were watching that might have enjoyed a chilled bottle of wine at the Four Seasons between the time the epi taped and when it aired. LOL

[pbutler111]

She looks totally different to me. The cheeks have been done, the lips have been done. Her forehead is un-furrowed. Your lips thin as you age they don't get fuller.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree.  I don't know with what supernatural powers of observation you're seeing all these astonishing differences, but apparently they simply don't register on my human eyes.

[Lastwaltz]

I think that is fantastic! A woman in her 50s who is proud of her body and thinks it's amazing should be applauded, not mocked. I think its a great thing when a woman of any age is proud of her body.

I loved the bunny ears and titty shirt. I think people should dress however the hell they want.

It bothers me that a confident woman who is proud of her appearance isn't celebrated.

Go Carole! You keep doing what you want and don't give a shit what anybody thinks.

 

I second! As a woman in her 50s (not proud of my body but not utterly ashamed either, I guess) I've thought a lot about how much freer I feel to be who I really am and how much better I "fit into my skin" so to speak these days. And I really wish I could tell my 25, 30, 35, etc., y/o self this, too. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by Lastwaltz

[sekay87]

Oof. Lots to discuss this episode, but I have to say, it was one of the more entertaining episodes in the past few seasons. A LOT went down.

1. Bethenny-SO glad to see the side of her I love come out. I'm a huge fan of B. I love how real and raw she is. She's not afraid to be herself, good or bad. This episode I really appreciated how honest she kept it with everyone, especially Sonja. I was dying when she told Sonja she was acting like a 4 year old. I give her credit for keeping it together. I also think she has a point when she says that at her core, Sonja is a good person. She just has a lot of mental issues and needs help. I think the other ladies would benefit from remembering that, because the way they abandoned her during the night out was really not ok.

2. Sonja-I don't want to reiterate the obvious, so all I'll say is that as much of a train wreck as this woman is, I genuinely feel sorry for her. She's so delusional that she has no idea of the downward spiral she's on. I forgot about Aviva pointing this out a few seasons ago until another poster pointing it out, but now it seems all the other girls realize it too. It's sad. I hope she gets a wake up call and gets the help she needs. Sometimes you need to lose everything before you fix yourself. Look at Teresa G from RHONJ. She needed to go jail to figure it out. Sonja might need to lose her house before she does.

3. Heather-Do NOT blame her in the least for being pissed about Sonja's unwillingness to let them in her house before leaving for the trip. I would have been furious. I do think she's sort of nasty though. It's tacky to call out the fact that she's had to put Sonja to bed while drunk and while her point was taken, she really shouldn't be airing out anyone's dirty laundry. NONE of that was ever on camera, and last I checked she got pissed at Aviva for insinuating Sonja had a problem with drinking. She could take it down a notch. She knows who she's dealing with so was it even worth her energy to kick the woman while she was down?

4. Carole-Honey, you embarrass yourself more each week. Those bunny ears? That cleavage shirt? You're not cute, you look ridiculous, and you just appear to be desperate at this point. You're actually intelligent and have a lot to offer. Stop dumbing yourself down for the cameras.

5. Luann-Normally my favorite, but those comments towards Ramona about how much better off she is without Mario were tactless and insensitive.

6. Dorinda-Probably my new favorite. "John John is dead so that's difficult." Slayed me. Keeping doing you D. You rock.

7. Kristen-Fashion was on point this week. Other than that, she needs something else to do.

8. Ramona-I LOVE single Ramona. She's having fun and I appreciate that about her. And on HER birthday, Dorinda, she should not have to be the one to babysit Sonja. She should be the one having fun. So I didn't blame her for letting Sonja wander and letting someone else deal with it.

That's it. I'm sure there are differing opinions, but right now I want Heather off my TV, Sonja to get help, and more Dorinda.

[Mya Stone]

For the love of all things holy and unholy, in the words of the Countess: 

 

I feel like every season we have had to come in and tell you to stop rehashing the love/hate/hate relationship y'all have with Carole. This is me, standing here, with my head in my hands, telling everyone - STOP THE INSANITY. We get it. You all have your own opinions, which you are entitled to, but you don't need to continuously bash us over the head with Aviva's leg about it. Okay? Okay. 

Edited May 15, 2015 by Mya Stone
your hands going IN your head would cause severe pain...oops

[ScoobieDoobs]

In her blog Heather says it was Sonja's vestibule, which I would take to mean that little area outside her front door. In Brooklyn we'd call that a stoop even if there are no steps (at least in the neighborhood I grew up in), but ryebread you may be right that she actually meant that ground level floor, which would definitely be a foyer.

 

OK, I explained this in an earlier post on this thread, but I'll explain again.

 

I pass by Sonja's townhouse every freakin' day on my way to the subway.  There is always a light on in the first floor, which is easy to see from the street & I see everyday.  The vestibule is inside, on the first floor, past the front door & it looks like a very, very tiny room with just a small table & lamp.  It reminds me of a small reception area of a doctor's office.

 

At the time of filming, the construction going on all around Sonja's townhouse was absolutely horrible.  There were overhanging barricades in front of Sonja's townhouse & on either side of it.  Being stuck under those barricades in the rain is not fun.  They leak water.  A lot of water.  Even with a good umbrella, if you stand under those things you will get soaked.  Really soaked.  That's why Heather was pissed.  I don't blame her.  And Starbucks is about a block and a half away.  Shlepping a bunch of luggage there in the pouring rain would suck.  Really suck.  

 

Also, the street Sonja's townhouse is on (63rd Street) is very, very busy during the day.  And the garage her townhouse is right next to is extremely busy.  If you look closely at that scene, it looks like they're constantly trying to dodge cars -- which are non-stop racing down that street & coming in and out of that garage.  Standing where they were is stressful & disconcerting.  That's why Heather was so keyed up   I wouldn't wanna stand around there ever -- let alone in the pouring rain & cold.

 

Why couldn't Sonja just apologize for her thoughtless behavior?

Edited May 14, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Trooper York]

Just goes to show that Aviva was ahead of her time.

A prophet without honor in her own land.

And to think she never worked outside the home!

How dare she!

The peasant!

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Ryebread, Hell HATH frozen over and mean a hard freeze because 25% of the time I was on Bethenny's side this ep.

 

To clarify, not the part where she whored out her product, Rapunzeled herself in her own room, said (I believe) I had to drop off my KID - it so sounds like a noun a belonging when you say that- say her name or say "my daughter" Puh-leeze, her gambling posture of half Jimmy the Hat and half disdain and above it all tossing $ 600 chips around, pissing on the side of the road when there are 1000 rest areas on the way between NYC and AC, oh and the part where trying to make her point screeching in a loud club versus a sloshed crazy woman was completely pointless (she just ramped the crazy as she did w. Kelly on SI) would have been better to go with it and say I love you lets talk in the AM it's loud in here?

 

Anyway quite a run on. She does get points for keeping it real w. Sonja and also for the preview of meeting with her stepfather. Girl has GOT to get to the bottom of her feelings on that issue before she will be happy. I will be back with a thesis on THAT interaction next week. Her Stepfather is a VERY successful businessman who worked from the bottom up who will give it to her straight, and a man who was not without struggle and hard work himself in his career every single day.

 

She couldn't get her dad (obvs) and I still think her swan song will be the Mother one day, and that confrontation happening on camera to showcase Bethenny's best angle to sell more books and crap though I hope it's for closure and health- the right reasons.

 

Wait, Rye, did I saw hell froze over that I had good feelings toward her? Well, I did have some! lol And it's a start.

[imjagain]

I mentioned in another post that skinny girl products were displayed in Ramona's room in Atlantic city. So Bethenny arranged that or Bravo did it for Beth?

I wonder if Ramona was pissed she didn't get a Ramona wine display?

[jaync]

Heather was referring to the trip last season to her house in the Berkshires and it was talked about the next morning, on camera before yoga, this was not a secret.

It was mentioned last season that Heather and Jonathan hung out with Sonja and Harry some after filming, so Heather may have been referring to one of those nights out.

 

It's highly rude no matter how you look at it.

Exactly. Scenarios of circling limos and demands for tea can be spun all day long, but the bottom line is, it was fucked up of Sonja to treat her friends/coworkers in that manner, and they had every right to be highly offended and/or angry.

 

A prophet without honor in her own land.

Quick, somebody make her a banner.

 

[Cherrio]

Carole's trolling, y'all. I think she's intentionally provocative in her talking heads to get people into a tizzy, because it goes along with her bohemian, free-spirited, who cares what people think of me/I'm just doing this for kicks schtick. I can't get worked up about any of them because really they're all kind of sad and seeking validation, they just package it differently.

I don't think I have read a better description that this one.  Perfect.

 

         On another subject, I think Sonja's story about a babysitter was another lie. Her daughter Quincy supposedly goes to boarding school.