S07.E06: Double Down On Delusion

[LNDNgirl]

They did make it in the house. It was in the very beginning, they showed them being kicked out! It's when Heather called her a 'fucking bitch'. I think that's what set them off even more because they were inside already and she came 'barreling down the stairs' or however Heather said it in her TH and kicked them out. I think maybe that's why they referenced foyer so much because they were in that first.

I was listening to the intro music and taglines while looking at something on my laptop.  The show started,but I still wasn't looking at the television.  Suddenly I hear "Bitch! .... Bitch!....Fucking bitch!" and that finally caused me to look up, to see Heather Kristen and Dorinda being ushered out by Sonja.  What a first scene.

 

I would be pissed off if I were Heather too.You tell me to meet at your house at a certain time and you're not ready?  Ok, I can deal with that. I'll just sit in your living room and play on my phone until you're ready.  But then you come down and tell me I can't wait in your house, I have to wait outside in a construction area while it's raining?  Not ok.  Not ok at all.

When you finally come out late as hell, cause even Bethenny has beat you there, you say the polite thing to do is wait the hour and 45 minutes in the limo.  You mean the limo that wasn't there? When I tell you it wasn't thte, you say I should have gone to Starbucks on the corner then?  What?  What kind of fucking host are you?  I would have politely picked up my shit and gone home.  How rude.

[lunastartron]

You've just taken a whole lot of things out of context and given them a meaning they didn't actually have.  If admire Carole's confidence, perhaps part of the reason is that, unlike some of the other "Housewives" you named, Carole actually does seem to be comfortable in her own skin, as evidenced by the fact that -- again, unlike the others you named -- she hasn't felt the need to alter her face or body with surgery or injections, nor does she walk around with inches of makeup on her face, overdone hair and nails, and dripping with bling.  As for her comments to Aviva and Luann, in the instances you cited, Aviva actually had already taken a dig at Carole when she made that thoroughly justified comment (as a writer myself, I remember that scene extremely well, and applaud Carole for not having actually lunged at Aviva's throat at this point), and Luann's behavior in asking for stuff for free from a friend of Carole's was, in fact, incredibly tacky.

 

Actually, "Luann . . . asking for stuff for free . . . " is a decontextualization. Lu did not just decide to request expensive garments gratis from a friend of Carole's. Ranjana is a professional designer, and it is common practice for celebrities and notable persons - even ones who are not household names but orbit the social glitterati in New York - to wear items from labels on the red carpet/step-and-repeat circuit without paying for them. The individuals in question then return the clothes to the press office of the design house in question, and the whole process is repeated with another high-profile woman or with a magazine that wants to photograph the pieces in a fashion shoot. Press samples exist solely and specifically for this purpose; it's how designers garner attention for their work. It is perfectly acceptable for anyone, even a Real Housewife, to inquire whether a designer would be able to and/or willing to lend them a dress for an event. It is also perfectly standard practice for said designer to politely and diplomatically edit the women to those they wish to be seen in their apparel (Rodarte, for example, usually lends to specifically hipsterish/creative types). The labels do not sniff, "Michelle Obama wears our clothes"; they pleasantly inform the woman issuing the request that the samples have already been loaned out and are not presently in office.

 

There's this myth that Carole only started behaving nastily toward Aviva after Aviva inquired about whether or not Carole employed a gw on What Remains. Per what was broadcast, that is simply and incontrovertibly not what happened. Carole rolled her eyes, grimaced, and made other pejorative expressions throughout their luncheon, finally asking if Aviva had ended up hiring anyone to collaborate with on Leggy Blonde. Aviva said she hadn't, Carole pushed back, Aviva pleasantly brought up her Chicken Soup contribution, and Carole declares, "that was a letter to your mother, not a book." Aviva then asks Carole, "What Remains was your first book, right?" And Carole huffs that she had a career prior to that. Aviva reminds her that she only authored essays prior to her own first book . . . and the debacle ensues. I don't, like, applaud Aviva or anything for BookGate, but I don't think it's a mischaracterization to say that Carole was rude and demeaning to her unnecessarily, and when you behave in such a manner, it's not unexpected for the object of your derision to reply unpleasantly.

 

As for the "it was like writing a long e-mail" remark at which Carole decided she had to clutch her pearls, as a writer, I'm pretty certain that Carole just wanted to feign vapors as much as possible in her talking heads after the fact. She's familiar with Joyce Carole Oates's prolific output, so she is probably acquainted with the fact that not all scribes follow a script of giggling in their editor's offices and blowing of deadlines to gobble psychotropic gummy bears. Some (like Louise Gluck) compose in bursts; some (like Gillian Flynn) labor on their manuscripts like it's a 9-5; some (like Stephen King) fly through long works like The Shining in a few brief months.

 

Per the "nothing" dig, Carole is a writer. It's her identity. It's how she pays her bills. She's acquainted with linguistic precision and articulating what she wants to communicate. Other Housewives are frequently held accountable for the words they utter during the heat of the moment and even for comments they did not make (the idea that Aviva asked, "What are you, gay?" here comes to mind, as it is substantively different from, "what are you, her lover or something?").

 

Personally, I think it's pretty clear that Carole has benefitted from cosmetic work. And props to her if those tune-ups make her feel good about herself! Are women only to be proud of their awesome bodies and/or faces only if it's all natural?

 

As I wrote before, while I'm not a fan, I think it is clutch that Carole feels great about her looks per her statements in this episode. And while I think she harbors insecurities that manifest in different ways, I do believe that she exudes an authentic confidence that makes her more attractive than conventional standards would dictate she is; it's probably why she is able to snag 30-year-old boyfriends.

 

What I do not see if anyone taking umbrage at her contentions just because she's not a classical beauty. For the most part, I feel that her assertions are being judged in the context of her nastiness toward others. To wit, if she wants to insert herself into a friendly conversation between Lu and the other woman to remind everyone that Lu's from Connecticut, then, uh, why would the other ladies - much less viewers - need to edit themselves and refrain from responding to Carole that, in order to have a hickey, you first need to find someone who wants to spend a lot of time sucking on your neck? Carole issues her comments on the program, and they are subject to dissection just like everything else.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

hee Sonja's blog is up, it's off the rails. All aboard the crazy train.

[ottergirl]

If I was in the situation that Heather and Kristen were I would had been pissed, that is for sure; however it didn't sit well with me that fact that Heather used that incident to disclose that she had taken Sonja to her house and up the stairs when she was falling down drunk.

 

Sonja definitely is a drunk , that we all know , but Heather revealing this incident makes me thing that Heather has never really cared for Sonja, I have had friends whom I have had to drive home and put to bed, not many times but sometimes and I have never used that particular piece of information to slam them back when we have had a disagreement.  

 

Heather was right to be upset and even if she overreacted a bit that is just who she is, Heather just go defcon over almost anything and in this case she was well within her rights, I just don't think she needed to disclose the other incident. I wonder if the one getting drunk was Carole and had to be carried up the stairs if Heather would have use any argument to throw that in her face.

 

Nice post.  I wonder what happened to make Heather so mad that she was still fuming at the interview, and disclosed the backstory.  I'm sure Heather "should not" have disclosed the behind the scenes Drunk Sonja story; I always feel like off-camera stuff should stay off camera.  But then again, Sonja at this point has been falling-down-drunk so many times ON camera (and was in this episode) that Heather could probably argue that she wasn't giving away anything new about Sonja, only about her own personal backstory with Sonja.  I also understand the point she was trying to make:  that she's been a "real life" friend to Sonja, and she was hurt that Sonja didn't respond.  One of my favorite things about Heather is that she has seemed to be the most sincere housewife - making genuine friendships with many of the women on the show, even Aviva in the first season (her point that she used to say "love you!" to Aviva when hanging up the phone was kind of sweet.)  

 

I also have to confess that I am an unabashed Team Heather person, and as such, I tend to cut her a lot of slack and give her a good private edit in my own head.  

 

But I also admit I haven't figured out the dynamics this season.  Dorinda, who seems pretty sensible, comes across as really LOATHING Heather in real time - in her blogs (including the latest one) and on her twitter feed, she just won't stop with the Heather bashing.  Obviously there's a huge fallout brewing with LuAnn.  There's a lot of animosity with Sonja, whose blogs have also been anti-Heather.  Both Dorinda and Sonja are chalking it up to Heather being controlling and bossy (Sonja says Heather is mad that Bethenny took her HBIC crown).  And certainly Heather's got a big old bossy streak.  And I get that Sonja is way threatened by Heather outing Sonja's issues, even going back to the toaster oven insanity.  But why is Dorinda up in Heather's grill? Since I love Heather so much, it's making me dislike Dorinda that she's coming down so hard on her.   It even came up this past week in Heather's twitter feed.  Someone tweeted to Dorinda asking why she was so nasty to Heather on her feed, and Heather responded along the lines of "yeah, please tell me, I thought we got along."  

 

I'm really interested to see how this plays out.

[archer1267]

hee Sonja's blog is up, it's off the rails. All aboard the crazy train.

 

 

Nothing is ever Sonja's fault. I thought from the episode she'd ASSUMED that the women would intuitively know to wait for her in the limo. And it's unfortunate that she interprets constructive criticism as belittling and tearing her down.

 

FWIW, Sonja repeatedly refers to the other HWs as "girls." She always has. This is not a trait unique to Carole at all.

[JakeyJokes]

Sonja's blog is up and she claims that she gave the girls tea, some of it got spilled, she had to immediately clean the stain off her mahogany table, and then she talks about her abundance candle.

 

Did we ever find out how Carole and LuAnn got excused from LimoGate?

[ryebread]

Ryebread, Hell HATH frozen over and mean a hard freeze because 25% of the time I was on Bethenny's side this ep.

 

LOL. Right?  I'm still a little shaky after typing something nice about her.  25% is a start.  But if either of us get too close to being 100%ers, I promise to schedule your intervention if you'll do the same for me.  Deal?

 

Just goes to show that Aviva was ahead of her time.

 

Sonja getting her drink on and spiraling the drain wasn't the only thing Aviva was right about.

[Sincerely Yours]

Actually, "Luann . . . asking for stuff for free . . . " is a decontextualization. Lu did not just decide to request expensive garments gratis from a friend of Carole's. Ranjana is a professional designer, and it is common practice for celebrities and notable persons - even ones who are not household names but orbit the social glitterati in New York - to wear items from labels on the red carpet/step-and-repeat circuit without paying for them. The individuals in question then return the clothes to the press office of the design house in question, and the whole process is repeated with another high-profile woman or with a magazine that wants to photograph the pieces in a fashion shoot. Press samples exist solely and specifically for this purpose; it's how designers garner attention for their work. It is perfectly acceptable for anyone, even a Real Housewife, to inquire whether a designer would be able to and/or willing to lend them a dress for an event. It is also perfectly standard practice for said designer to politely and diplomatically edit the women to those they wish to be seen in their apparel (Rodarte, for example, usually lends to specifically hipsterish/creative types). The labels do not sniff, "Michelle Obama wears our clothes"; they pleasantly inform the woman issuing the request that the samples have already been loaned out and are not presently in office.

 

There's this myth that Carole only started behaving nastily toward Aviva after Aviva inquired about whether or not Carole employed a gw on What Remains. Per what was broadcast, that is simply and incontrovertibly not what happened. Carole rolled her eyes, grimaced, and made other pejorative expressions throughout their luncheon, finally asking if Aviva had ended up hiring anyone to collaborate with on Leggy Blonde. Aviva said she hadn't, Carole pushed back, Aviva pleasantly brought up her Chicken Soup contribution, and Carole declares, "that was a letter to your mother, not a book." Aviva then asks Carole, "What Remains was your first book, right?" And Carole huffs that she had a career prior to that. Aviva reminds her that she only authored essays prior to her own first book . . . and the debacle ensues. I don't, like, applaud Aviva or anything for BookGate, but I don't think it's a mischaracterization to say that Carole was rude and demeaning to her unnecessarily, and when you behave in such a manner, it's not unexpected for the object of your derision to reply unpleasantly.

 

As for the "it was like writing a long e-mail" remark at which Carole decided she had to clutch her pearls, as a writer, I'm pretty certain that Carole just wanted to feign vapors as much as possible in her talking heads after the fact. She's familiar with Joyce Carole Oates's prolific output, so she is probably acquainted with the fact that not all scribes follow a script of giggling in their editor's offices and blowing of deadlines to gobble psychotropic gummy bears. Some (like Louise Gluck) compose in bursts; some (like Gillian Flynn) labor on their manuscripts like it's a 9-5; some (like Stephen King) fly through long works like The Shining in a few brief months.

 

Per the "nothing" dig, Carole is a writer. It's her identity. It's how she pays her bills. She's acquainted with linguistic precision and articulating what she wants to communicate. Other Housewives are frequently held accountable for the words they utter during the heat of the moment and even for comments they did not make (the idea that Aviva asked, "What are you, gay?" here comes to mind, as it is substantively different from, "what are you, her lover or something?").

 

Personally, I think it's pretty clear that Carole has benefitted from cosmetic work. And props to her if those tune-ups make her feel good about herself! Are women only to be proud of their awesome bodies and/or faces only if it's all natural?

 

As I wrote before, while I'm not a fan, I think it is clutch that Carole feels great about her looks per her statements in this episode. And while I think she harbors insecurities that manifest in different ways, I do believe that she exudes an authentic confidence that makes her more attractive than conventional standards would dictate she is; it's probably why she is able to snag 30-year-old boyfriends.

 

What I do not see if anyone taking umbrage at her contentions just because she's not a classical beauty. For the most part, I feel that her assertions are being judged in the context of her nastiness toward others. To wit, if she wants to insert herself into a friendly conversation between Lu and the other woman to remind everyone that Lu's from Connecticut, then, uh, why would the other ladies - much less viewers - need to edit themselves and refrain from responding to Carole that, in order to have a hickey, you first need to find someone who wants to spend a lot of time sucking on your neck? Carole issues her comments on the program, and they are subject to dissection just like everything else.

Beautifully explained. Exactly my position regarding Lu and the dress, and Carole's lunch with Aviva where Carole had this whole superior vibe from the start. Yes, Yes, and Yes! You nailed it.

[slitz]

I'll agree with that part.  No blogs yet from Sonja, Ramona, Dorinda or Kristen.  Just Heather.  I'd like to hear their experience that morning.

 

Kristen's has been up since Wednesday morning.  Sonja and Dorinda's went up this morning.

[Trooper York]

Nobody likes the messenger when it is something you don't want to hear. Aviva was right about a lot of stuff that people are realizing this year when you remove her from the mix. People just love to kill the messenger and not believe her just because she is an unpleasant personality.

 

Aviva with her wooden leg is just like Cassandra with her Wooden Horse. They warned  you but you just didn't want to believe!

 

Suckers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ryebread]

Now we just need Ramona's blog.  Sonja and Dorinda's were good.  I think some things about that morning got a little clearer. Not much but a little. 

 

Absolutely rude the way Sonja handled it but Heather's right there being ugly, too. 

 

ETA:  After reading Kristen's blog, I can see where the trouble between her and Bethenny will begin.  And Kristen sort of throws Heather under the bus by saying that Heather was irked by Bethenny when Heather insists in her blog that she wasn't mad at Beth at all.

Edited May 14, 2015 by ryebread

[racked]

Sonja's blog is up and she claims that she gave the girls tea, some of it got spilled, she had to immediately clean the stain off her mahogany table, and then she talks about her abundance candle.

 

 

The way she talks about her house in that blog! She acts like it's in pristine condition and the girls coming inside would wreck that! The way she talks about her interns makes me laugh too. Oh Sonja. I still like her, despite her ridiculousness. I do think there's something genuinely not right with her though. 

I feel like every season we have had to come in and tell you to stop rehashing the love/hate/hate relationship y'all have with Carole. This is me, standing here, with my hands in my head, telling everyone - STOP THE INSANITY. We get it. You all have your own opinions, which you are entitled to, but you don't need to continuously bash us over the head with Aviva's leg about it. Okay? Okay.

 

 

I just realized Carole is RHONY's Brandi. She's somehow that polarizing. Amazing. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by racked

[Trooper York]

With all the talk of the movie that Sonja tried to finance I never got what it was it about.

 

Could it have been "Snatch Guardians of the Galaxy?"

[Mozelle]

Nothing is ever Sonja's fault. I thought from the episode she'd ASSUMED that the women would intuitively know to wait for her in the limo. And it's unfortunate that she interprets constructive criticism as belittling and tearing her down.

 

FWIW, Sonja repeatedly refers to the other HWs as "girls." She always has. This is not a trait unique to Carole at all.

LuAnn as well. Her blog is littered with "girls." In episodes across all seasons, she refers to "the girls." So, yeah.

 

I just read Sonja's blog. Holy cow! First off, if her sister was supposed to come up from Nashville, why was Sonja supposedly only finding out the day the girls were set to leave for Atlantic City that her sister couldn't make it? If this sister's friend's death occurred that very morning, you mean to tell me that the sister canceled her own travel arrangements *just like that* to tend to...whom, exactly? 

Edited May 14, 2015 by Mozelle

[film noire]

No, you missed the point of my question. How do we know that she didn't say something to Reid on camera and simply didn't make the show?

If that happened, I'm sure she would've done a follow up on a blog (as she did when she told Aviva's father to get off the show). I just don't think it's likely there was a filmed moment in which Carole took Reid to task, but was then somehow muzzled in THs, her Bravo blog, her personal blog and Twitter  -- just doesn't make any sense to me. YMMV and all that good stuff.

Edited May 14, 2015 by film noire

[archer1267]

People just love to kill the messenger and not believe her just because she is an unpleasant personality.

 

 

I'm not ready to give Aviva credit for anything. She's a pathological liar and accuser. This is someone who can't stick to a story to save her life. First her leg toss was "completely spontaneous," even with Harry sharing that she'd asked him beforehand if he would carry her out "in case" something happened. She swore up and down that it wasn't premeditated. And then, months later, she reveals that she knew she had to bring the drama in order to stay on the show, thus the leg toss.

 

I don't see what Aviva has revealed about Carole that is turning out to be the truth. Carole's a flawed person, yes, but that doesn't automatically make Aviva unflawed. Even if Carole (IMO) turns out to be the reincarnation of Saddam Hussein, I'd still prefer her on the show over Aviva.

[robroy]

 and Luann's behavior in asking for stuff for free from a friend of Carole's was, in fact, incredibly tacky.

 

In context that is not really what she did. She bought jewelry from the wife and was invited to visit/have shots with them as a couple. That's when she brought up the magazine spread. It was never determined if she wanted the dress for keeps or just as a loaner for a photo shoot. Even Alex who is no great Luann apologist said that it was SOP for the H'wives to get dresses for special appearances in return for the publicity. She said they all do it.

 

I think Carole knew that but also knew Luann wouldn't break the third wall by explaining the real situation. Carole- much like Ramona- is pretty crafty at wedging the other housewives between reality/show practice and for the most part none other than Beth are adept enough to explain themselves in a way that makes sense on both TV & real life.

 

And ugh with the Aviva reference. That reminds me of just how many of these women have addicts in the family (Ramona, Aviva, Beth, Carole if you count drug use alone, probably Alex and Sonja herself) or major parent issues (Jill, Ramona, Beth, Aviva, Heather.) It really goes a long way in explaining why these women either lack filters or go from 'zero to Mother Fucker' on a dime. Or play doormat/codependent/passive-aggressive observer. I really think they should offer this show on DVD free for people at the brink of an intervention with the assertion that they can get help or turn the children into these banshees. 

And I have to thank whoever coined 'zero to Mother Fucker.' I fully intend to incorporate this into my repertoire.

[Pattycake2]

In her blog, Sonja called "the girls" fiends!  HAHAHAHAHAHA!     If that was a typo, it was a good one!     FYI, I read that Bethanny settled her lawsuit last week. 

[pbutler111]

I think Carole knew that but also knew Luann wouldn't break the third wall by explaining the real situation. Carole- much like Ramona- is pretty crafty at wedging the other housewives between reality/show practice

 

Luann has never hesitated to "break the third wall" (which is more like a semi-sheer curtain in reality TV) to explain the actual context of things if she feels it's been misinterpreted by viewers.  She's done it in any number of situations, via blog, external interview, comments at the reunions, or on WWHL.

[Midnight Cheese]

Sonja's blog is made of bitch in many different ways - what she says and projects onto Bethenny (bite my tongue for defending her), LuAnn, Ramona and Heather is just unbelievable.  She a lie.  Even if she was into top-shelf booze when she typed this, it's still amazing. 

 

I don't know how much organic mental illness is there, yet.  It's quite sad, but there is a TON of willful bending of reality, lying, manipulating, going on with her.

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/blogs/sonja-morgan/sonja-heather-was-just-pissed-that

[FamilyVan]

"Damn, I went into the wrong line of work." I took Carole's comment of "I would have made more money..." in that vein. It's interesting to me that people are taking it as an "I'm so hot" comment, primarily.

 

 

Because her career path has not been lucrative?  So Carole genuinely thinks that if she had gone into stripping she would still be sitting around having lunch in the middle of a weekday wondering out loud if she is part of the 1%?  LOL

[Sincerely Yours]

Now we just need Ramona's blog.  Sonja and Dorinda's were good.  I think some things about that morning got a little clearer. Not much but a little. 

 

Absolutely rude the way Sonja handled it but Heather's right there being ugly, too. 

 

ETA:  After reading Kristen's blog, I can see where the trouble between her and Bethenny will begin.  And Kristen sort of throws Heather under the bus by saying that Heather was irked by Bethenny when Heather insists in her blog that she wasn't mad at Beth at all.

And I think Heather had a right to be somewhat annoyed with Beth too. Why was Sonja the only one who received a text? Just wondering? I mean I can understand the idea that Sonja would pass on the message but at the same time I think it's a little bit tricky. I for one would like to reach out and let people know I will be late and not rely on flaky personalities to relay my message. So yeah I think it was ok to be a little annoyed with Beth as well considering she didn't let all the ladies know I mean it's called group text. One message multiple recipients.  Also, by Bethanny deciding she was going to blow off the timeline she ultimately decided that the other women would be leaving when HER schedule permits. So she just basically rearranged plans for everyone by deciding that she would NOT make other arrangements for Brynn and if it meant making the other women wait then so be it. I mean something like that rates a text to all the women but my guess is that she left it at just Sonja cause she knew if she would given the women a heads up the night before her decision would have been questioned and maybe even criticized and she just didn't want to have to explain herself. Yeah, I wouldn't be happy about that either.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[Lisin]

For the love of all things holy and unholy, in the words of the Countess: 

 

I feel like every season we have had to come in and tell you to stop rehashing the love/hate/hate relationship y'all have with Carole. This is me, standing here, with my hands in my head, telling everyone - STOP THE INSANITY. We get it. You all have your own opinions, which you are entitled to, but you don't need to continuously bash us over the head with Aviva's leg about it. Okay? Okay. 

 

Reiterating this once. Please be respectful. Of ALL opinions. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Sonja needs to tell her interns to use paragraphs & spell check.  I could barely get thru reading her blog.  More babble & crapola.  Oy.

 

Because her career path has not been lucrative?  So Carole genuinely thinks that if she had gone into stripping she would still be sitting around having lunch in the middle of a weekday wondering out loud if she is part of the 1%?  LOL

 

Funny, what bothered me about her comment was NOT at all about whether she thought she was hot.  With that comment, I thought she was every bit as haughty as the Countess she always made so much fun of (and continues to).  She was looking her nose down on strippers & it was icky to me.  She is every bit as haughty as Lu.  She seems to think she isn't, but she absolutely is.  Blech.

Edited May 14, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Mozelle]

Sonja needs to tell her interns to use paragraphs & spell check. I could barely get thru reading her blog. More babble & crapola. Oy.

Funny, what bothered me about her comment was NOT at all about whether she thought she was hot. With that comment, I thought she was every bit as haughty as the Countess she always made so much fun of (and continues to). She was looking her nose down on strippers & it was icky to me. She is every bit as haughty as Lu. She seems to think she isn't, but she absolutely is. Blech.

Wasn't the comparison more about the pay disparity between stripping and journalism? I.e., stripping is more lucrative than journalism. I thought that was the joke, anyway. I mean, given that there's a journalist who left journalism because of low pay to work in PR months before being awarded a Pulitzer last month for an investigative piece he helped write, it seems to be the case.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Mozelle

[Mya Stone]

I hid a handful of posts that were inflammatory, or baiting others on their opinions - even after the mod note - the next time I come in here, I'll have no choice but to start doling out warnings. 

Be respectful. That's all we ask. Make your point, and move on. Nobody wins in an internet argument. Except maybe the mods. :p 

[Trooper York]

Even if Carole (IMO) turns out to be the reincarnation of Saddam Hussein, I'd still prefer her on the show over Aviva.

 

Well they do have similar mustaches!

[ScoobieDoobs]

Wasn't the comparison more about the pay disparity between stripping and journalism? I.e., stripping is more lucrative than journalism. I thought that was the joke, anyway. I mean, given that there's a journalist who left journalism because of low pay to work in PR months before being awarded a Pulitzer last month for an investigative piece he helped write, it seems to be the case.

 

Yeah, I think that is most likely what she meant -- and yet, at least to me, that important point kinda got lost in her comment.  Seemed to me like she was denigrating strippers.  An easy thing to do.  Too easy.  Not sure why, but her cutesy jokes & her shticks are consistently not hitting the mark this season.  I'll still give her a chance, but I am just NOT digging much about this persona she's throwing out to us.

 

Oh, and just a useful tip to you, Carole, hun.  Don't laugh in your TH's.  It took years & years & years for Gretchen to finally learn this.  And when she finally did, she got fired.  Notice that Bethenny rarely, if ever, laughs in her TH's?  Learn from the pro, Carole.

 

Btw, I'm thinking of a new SkinnyGirl product -- SkinnyGirl buckets to pee in whenever & wherever you might get the urge to pee.  If you feel need to pee on the street, in the local mall, in a store, wherever -- it doesn't matter.  Cuz if you have your SkinnyGirl bucket with you, now you can pull down your pants & underwear & squat down in front of all the world & go right into your SkinnyGirl bucket.  Get on it, B, quick!

 

I'm wondering if Bethenny will pee in front of Satan Andy the next time she's on WWHL.  They seem to think this behavior is so entertaining & hilarious, so you never know.

Edited May 14, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[shoegal]

Actually, "Luann . . . asking for stuff for free . . . " is a decontextualization. Lu did not just decide to request expensive garments gratis from a friend of Carole's. Ranjana is a professional designer, and it is common practice for celebrities and notable persons - even ones who are not household names but orbit the social glitterati in New York - to wear items from labels on the red carpet/step-and-repeat circuit without paying for them. The individuals in question then return the clothes to the press office of the design house in question, and the whole process is repeated with another high-profile woman or with a magazine that wants to photograph the pieces in a fashion shoot. Press samples exist solely and specifically for this purpose; it's how designers garner attention for their work. It is perfectly acceptable for anyone, even a Real Housewife, to inquire whether a designer would be able to and/or willing to lend them a dress for an event. It is also perfectly standard practice for said designer to politely and diplomatically edit the women to those they wish to be seen in their apparel (Rodarte, for example, usually lends to specifically hipsterish/creative types). The labels do not sniff, "Michelle Obama wears our clothes"; they pleasantly inform the woman issuing the request that the samples have already been loaned out and are not presently in office.

 

.

In context that is not really what she did. She bought jewelry from the wife and was invited to visit/have shots with them as a couple. That's when she brought up the magazine spread. It was never determined if she wanted the dress for keeps or just as a loaner for a photo shoot. Even Alex who is no great Luann apologist said that it was SOP for the H'wives to get dresses for special appearances in return for the publicity. She said they all do it.

 

I think Carole knew that but also knew Luann wouldn't break the third wall by explaining the real situation. Carole- much like Ramona- is pretty crafty at wedging the other housewives between reality/show practice and for the most part none other than Beth are adept enough to explain themselves in a way that makes sense on both TV & real life.

 

Responding in LuAnn's thread.

[slitz]

Something that struck me when I first saw the First Look at this episode and then again when watching it Tuesday night.  Sonja claims that she was on the phone with her sister and trying to sort out who was going to watch her daughter overnight...yet all the footage we saw of Sonja was of her packing, fluffing her hair, sipping coffee or tea (or so we assume as it was in a insulated mug).  Not one shot of her stressing about having to find someone else to stay with her daughter.  And she was obviously comfortable enough to have a filming crew there for that...why couldn't the ladies come in then.  Seriously, she makes ZERO sense.

[bravofan27]

Sometimes I wonder if Sonja wasn't always a little cuckoo and that's why her ex won't so much as look at her. I've also read that he asked newspapers and websites to take down any pictures of him and Sonja together, sort of implies that his time with her was not pleasant and does not hold good memories. And she is always saying that he was her best friend, but I think that is her imagination as well. He does not seem to have had much of any relationship with her, and she was sort of his PR person that he married, as she entertained (and probably slept) with many of his friends on their entertainment cruises. I sort of think the Sonja we see now is the exact person that he married, and he got bored or annoyed financing her partying and tolerating her self-created titles and pretending that she was important to her face. Let's face it, the woman is not a business person though she wants everyone to think she is. That said, I think Sonja is a bit of a snob. The way she was going on about all the famous people she has partied with sort of implies that she doesn't find her current friends that impressive. She is always reminding people who she is. It's like a girlfriend I have who mentions she went to Penn State in front of everyone to remind people she is smart. It's obvious she wants people to know she is better than them. But the thing is, she ISN'T better than them, she is just insecure to admit who she really is. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by bravofan27

[poeticlicensed]

Sonja has been in and out of various courts since 2008. That's 7 years. She keeps talking about this 7 mil judgement, but I suspect that if she added up all her lawyers fees for the divorce, bankruptcy and whatever else, she has paid out well in excess of 7 mil. Its clearly affecting her mental health. I wish she would just let it go. Her non stop blabbering about yachts, kings and living the life are bordering on sad and pathetic. I feel like she is so vulnerable, she is opening herself up to every con artist out there who feeds her line about starting a business. 

 

Bethenny had me until the pee out the door scene. I mean really, there are no convenience stores, fast food restaurants or gas stations in New Jersey? Come on, that was just gross. 

 

Dorinda had me laughing. 

 

Heather, like Sonja, just can't let it go either. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Sometimes I wonder if Sonja wasn't always a little cuckoo and that's why her ex won't so much as look at her. I've also read that he asked newspapers and websites to take down any pictures of him and Sonja together, sort of implies that his time with her was not pleasant and does not hold good memories. And she is always saying that he was her best friend, but I think that is her imagination as well. He does not seem to have had much of any relationship with her, and she was sort of his PR person that he married, as she entertained (and probably slept) with many of his friends on their entertainment cruises. I sort of think the Sonja we see now is the exact person that he married, and he got bored or annoyed financing her partying and tolerating her self-created titles and pretending that she was important to her face. Let's face it, the woman is not a business person though she wants everyone to think she is. That said, I think Sonja is a bit of a snob. The way she was going on about all the famous people she has partied with sort of implies that she doesn't find her current friends that impressive. She is always reminding people who she is. It's like a girlfriend I have who mentions she went to Penn State in front of everyone to remind people she is smart. It's obvious she wants people to know she is better than them. But the thing is, she ISN'T better than them, she is just insecure to admit who she really is.

 

You've made at least 10 great points, but can you please make paragraphs your friend & help us to read your comment a little easier?  Please?

Edited May 14, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[izabella]

That said, I think Sonja is a bit of a snob. The way she was going on about all the famous people she has partied with sort of implies that she doesn't find her current friends that impressive. She is always reminding people who she is. It's like a girlfriend I have who mentions she went to Penn State in front of everyone to remind people she is smart. It's obvious she wants people to know she is better than them.

 

Yes, thank you.  This has bugged me about Sonja since the start.  All the constant name-dropping makes her sound like the people she is ACTUALLY socializing with are dog shit on her shoe.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

OMG Sonja's blog! It's just too good!

 

She says....

 

To be clear, the intern did not let Heather and the girls in the HEATED foyer.  Key word, Heated. I laughed out loud. Yeah right Sonja. Remember when there was no hot water in the house????

 

The reason it was cold was because everyone was running in and out. I could feel the draft upstairs!

-Drafty upstairs!!! Quelle Horreure !!! How do you think it felt standing outside in the rain, Sonja? Let them eat cake!

 

. They all had black town cars to get to the white stretch limo in front of my house. You can clearly see the black car in front of my house.

I don't even understand this? The black town cars were there, but the limo was late right? Were the ladies to pay their drivers to wait? How does NYC feel about double parked town cars for an hour in the rain in a construction zone? Later in the blog Sonja says SHE sent for the girls in town cars. OK SHE did? Not BRAVO? hahahahahaha Smoky Eye! Updo! Gstaad!  Did she send the town cars to Gstaad to pick up the girls after their updo and smoky eye?

 

This gem: hahahaa Interns are here to learn, they are not employees or domestics. I have to be with the interns when they observe or participate in any entertaining at home. I wonder if Sonja has to be present when they are picking up dogshit off the threadbare carpets?

 

When they came into the foyer, a cup of tea was spilled all over the marble mosaic floor and on the antique table all while calling me a bitch. I had to lift the glass and wipe it clean so it didn’t get trapped and destroy the piece! I had to put the glass to the side to be sure the mahogany table dried completely before putting the glass back on (which is dangerous while out on the floor). So something from Ikea got a spill. Who was carrying tea in the ep?

 

I still vacation to Gstaad yearly in my updo and smoky eye. LOL! Even the Learning Annex asked me to come in and demonstrate. Whaddya wanna bet Sonja's passport has ZERO stamps to/from Gstaad in the past 3 years.... Quick someone google the Learning Annex schedule to see when that demo took place...

 

re: partying.....   What happens in Atlantic City stays in Atlantic City, they say. I should have known better than to let my walls down around them. Ummm it stays in AC except when it is being filmed for Bravo you loon!!!! Then not only does it not stay in AC---- it's nationwide. Yuh, don't let your walls down around the girls, OR THE TONS OF VIEWERS!

 

Why she dates younger men....   I feel that I can contribute as an equal partner emotionally and can stand on my own two feet financially. I just didn’t feel that I could do that a year ago. Hence, the younger men.

 

Not a shocker, there is no mention of Dorinda having to put her to bed.

 

It's just too good, there's so so much more. Dellluuuuuusional!

[ButterQueen]

I really enjoyed this episode.....save for crazy Lady Morgan. I would be pissed off too if a friend left me waiting in the rain outside her door. Heather wasn't the only one complaining. Sonja is just a mess. I find my blood pressure rising just listening to her babbling rewritten life story of fiction. Loved B saying she needed a cape with an R on it -- for repetitive.

I am Team B for this episode. She kept me interested and laughing. I truly believe she was trying to help Sonja, but no way is Sonja admitting anything. I rolled my eyes at "vitamins".

It really seems to me that Sonja and Ramona are social outcasts on this show. The other ladies seem to be able to have a reasonable discussion at a normal decibel level. I just cannot stand loud, drunk women. Those two were embarrassing in the casino.

Loved Kristen for saying Ramona danced like Elaine from Seinfeld.

I love Heather, Carole, Kristin, Bethenny and LuAnn.....Ramona and Sonja can just get off my television.

I have a friend with a sense of humor like Carole, so I get her comments and find her interesting.

Dorinda is just too blah for this show.

[OhGromit]

If Sonja has only been able to date younger men since her bankruptcy because she can't commit... then how was she able to date Harry, or agree to be "promised" to him... just last season?  HUH?  OMG, I am acting like refuting her logic means anything.  

[breezy424]

Note to Dorinda - no, the limo did not stop on the Garden State Parkway for Beth to pee.  The GSP is not a two lane road.  And from looking at that scene again, I'm 99% sure that's Route 9 just north of Smithville.  There's a sign that says Smithville straight ahead and veer to the right to Port Republic.  That would put them about three miles north of Smithville where there plenty of rest rooms for the public.  Smithville is an historic village and is a fun place to see.  But Beth couldn't wait.  Geez.

 

Boy, doesn't there seem to be varying stories on the who, what, when and why of waiting for Sonja in the foyer, the vestibule, outside?  Were they let in for a moment and then told to leave?  Did they go to Starbucks for coffee lugging their luggage?  Is the 'foyer' or vestibule outside?  Or inside?  Did someone get a cup of tea since Sonja had to wipe it up?  Did Heather go screaming up the stairs at Sonja?  Were the ladies' town cars sitting outside the whole time?  Ramona 'did' get inside to use the bathroom - that we know.  It's become a freaking mystery story.....

[ButterQueen]

I think that is fantastic! A woman in her 50s who is proud of her body and thinks it's amazing should be applauded, not mocked. I think its a great thing when a woman of any age is proud of her body.

I loved the bunny ears and titty shirt. I think people should dress however the hell they want.

It bothers me that a confident woman who is proud of her appearance isn't celebrated.

Go Carole! You keep doing what you want and don't give a shit what anybody thinks.

Bethenny had to pee. I and everybody I know has done that at one point or another. What else was she supposed to do? It didn't look like there were any bathrooms around.

I'm not sure if you're a male or female scoobie, but after child birth a lot of women have a hard time holding it.

It was the side of the freeway and it was raining. I didn't see the big deal.

Its just pee. I don't think there's anything gross or "ick" about pee.

Amen about Carole and bless all of us who've had to stop and pee outside.

And Bethenny meets up with John Parisella her stepfather next week, now THIS is what I've waited for since season 1......

....and his comment to B in the preview broke my heart.

[ghoulina]

Something that struck me when I first saw the First Look at this episode and then again when watching it Tuesday night.  Sonja claims that she was on the phone with her sister and trying to sort out who was going to watch her daughter overnight...yet all the footage we saw of Sonja was of her packing, fluffing her hair, sipping coffee or tea (or so we assume as it was in a insulated mug).  Not one shot of her stressing about having to find someone else to stay with her daughter.  And she was obviously comfortable enough to have a filming crew there for that...why couldn't the ladies come in then.  Seriously, she makes ZERO sense.

 

And it appears that's not the only excuse she gave. I also heard "I was packing" and "My dogs get out". So which is it? What is the REAL story here??? (Given it's Sonja, we will likely never know.)

[JAYJAY1979]

So far, it seems like this is.a revived spinoff shoe starring bethanny with several supporting players. It seems like only.bethanny and dorina.have individual narratives... with occasional focus on Ramona and Carole and Luann.

Even Sonja's narrative isn't really hers...it is only getting focus cause of.bethanny...IMHO.

It seems like Kristen.and heather are just seat warmers. Either nothing was happening in their lives...or eight women are too many.

[ButterQueen]

And Bethenny meets up with John Parisella her stepfather next week, now THIS is what I've waited for since season 1......

....and his comment to B in the preview broke my heart.

Actually five year olds have to pee less than older women. I can only speak for myself, but once I was alongside of fifty, the urgency feels greater. So having to go doesn't feel able to put off.

These women are largely fifty and beyond.

And pee is sterile, not gross. It can even be medicinal.

Compared to some of the nastiness we see on these shows, a physically necessary universal act like peeing is humanizing, not disgusting, imo.

I agree. Kinda fun seeing a millionaire yell at the driver to pull over so she can pee.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Amen about Carole and bless all of us who've had to stop and pee outside.

 

And may Bethenny gift her very own SkinnyGirl buckets to those who feel the need to pee in public -- on the streets, in malls, by the roadside, wherever.  Enjoy!

Um, so is Dorinda right -- do those wipes burn down there?

[ButterQueen]

And in the morning, Starbucks is notoriously packed and hostile. Nobody wants to sit on a stool balancing luggage while next to some weirdo on his laptop until God knows when.

When the show first started, you can hear the arguing about where to wait, but realize no one is outside. So I fully believe Kristen's version.

I noticed when the girls were leaving dinner, and before they show Ramona and Sonja arm in arm, you see Heather talking to Sonja with her arm around her. I do think they all try to watch out for Sonja. And I agree, if Heather can carry Sonja's drunk ass upstairs and put her to bed, she can wait for the limo in her warm house.

I believe Ramona is having hot flashes. Everyone was dressed in scarves and warm clothes when arriving at the hotel, and Ramona had on a tank top. I feel her pain. I'm always hot.

[archer1267]

I still vacation to Gstaad yearly in my updo and smoky eye. LOL! Even the Learning Annex asked me to come in and demonstrate.

 

 

Sonja's make-up and hairstyling IS often impeccable - but I just assumed both were professionally done. And I couldn't see the Learning Annex inviting her in for a demonstration (not with all the free YouTube demos on make-up tips) UNTIL I saw that she made videos for them on cooking in your toaster oven! So, fact often IS stranger than fiction.

 

Um, so is Dorinda right -- do those wipes burn down there?

 

There are wipes that are gentle enough to use on a baby's skin, but I don't know if they're safe to use, um, internally. The wash n' dry packets that my parents used to whip out on car trips are definitely only intended for topical use, giving the astringents that moisten the cloth. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by archer1267

[slitz]

....and his comment to B in the preview broke my heart.

 

I commented on that on Bethenny's thread I think.  It's been lost in all the posts about her continuing divorce drama (no comment on that).  My heart broke for her in that scene.  I can't imagine a more hurtful thing to hear.  I don't always like Bethenny and she can be a bit much for my tastes but damn.  No wonder she's so messed up.  I just wanna give her a million hugs in that moment.

[Trooper York]

Do you have to wear your snatch guard when you go to sleep in the same way you that you wear a night guard when you have TMJ?

 

You know to stop your vagina from grinding in your sleep.

[jaync]

I'm not ready to give Aviva credit for anything. She's a pathological liar and accuser.

For real. She claimed a comparison to Anna Nicole Smith was actually a compliment. Nothing right about that.

 

Notice that Bethenny rarely, if ever, laughs in her TH's?

It seems Beth rarely ever laughs, period.

 

I noticed when the girls were leaving dinner, and before they show Ramona and Sonja arm in arm, you see Heather talking to Sonja with her arm around her. I do think they all try to watch out for Sonja. 

I agree. Heather and Sonja have their heated arguments, but they seem to like/enjoy each other in general. I remember last season in Montana(?) they were walking around holding hands, and with their arms around one another.

[motorcitymom65]

Good lord. Sonja's blog is such a thing of delusion it is hard to believe that she would put it out there. Has she never watched the show before? It was mentioned above, but this part is especially incredible:

 

"She did call, and I told her I needed the time to finish the call with my sister, had no one to attend to the girls if they wanted to come up, and that I would be right down. Interns are here to learn, they are not employees or domestics. I have to be with the interns when they observe or participate in any entertaining at home. I won’t tell you the disasters that can occur in a home like mine in 15 minutes. Just imagine French doors, pond in backyard, front doors to street, garbage disposals, elevators, electric gates, two poodles, the cat, and a myriad of other accidents waiting to happen without me with the interns, who are trying to help out and learn."

 

Seriously, what the fuck is she talking about here? They are there to learn what? Haven't we seen them assist her in packing the right underwear, taking a Sharpie to her old bags, and putting on a license plate to drive to the Hamptons? And how detailed did she believe the entertaining of her "friends" needed to be in this situation? Weren't they just waiting for a car? And what kind of disaster did she envision would go on with her French Doors or her garbage disposal with these folks in the house? Maybe she thinks they are toddlers. It is just so beyond anything that I have ever read before. I cannot imagine having to deal with this person for even 5 minutes. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[WireWrap]

hee Sonja's blog is up, it's off the rails. All aboard the crazy train.

She is rambling again just like she did last season! She says 1 thing then in the next paragraph says something different about the same thing! She has said that her interns "help" her with her blog and on all her social media posts/tweets, they must be typing exactly what she is saying without organizing it before they submitted this! LOL

 

Nice post.  I wonder what happened to make Heather so mad that she was still fuming at the interview, and disclosed the backstory.  I'm sure Heather "should not" have disclosed the behind the scenes Drunk Sonja story; I always feel like off-camera stuff should stay off camera.  But then again, Sonja at this point has been falling-down-drunk so many times ON camera (and was in this episode) that Heather could probably argue that she wasn't giving away anything new about Sonja, only about her own personal backstory with Sonja.  I also understand the point she was trying to make:  that she's been a "real life" friend to Sonja, and she was hurt that Sonja didn't respond.  One of my favorite things about Heather is that she has seemed to be the most sincere housewife - making genuine friendships with many of the women on the show, even Aviva in the first season (her point that she used to say "love you!" to Aviva when hanging up the phone was kind of sweet.)  

 

I also have to confess that I am an unabashed Team Heather person, and as such, I tend to cut her a lot of slack and give her a good private edit in my own head.  

 

But I also admit I haven't figured out the dynamics this season.  Dorinda, who seems pretty sensible, comes across as really LOATHING Heather in real time - in her blogs (including the latest one) and on her twitter feed, she just won't stop with the Heather bashing.  Obviously there's a huge fallout brewing with LuAnn.  There's a lot of animosity with Sonja, whose blogs have also been anti-Heather.  Both Dorinda and Sonja are chalking it up to Heather being controlling and bossy (Sonja says Heather is mad that Bethenny took her HBIC crown).  And certainly Heather's got a big old bossy streak.  And I get that Sonja is way threatened by Heather outing Sonja's issues, even going back to the toaster oven insanity.  But why is Dorinda up in Heather's grill? Since I love Heather so much, it's making me dislike Dorinda that she's coming down so hard on her.   It even came up this past week in Heather's twitter feed.  Someone tweeted to Dorinda asking why she was so nasty to Heather on her feed, and Heather responded along the lines of "yeah, please tell me, I thought we got along."  

 

I'm really interested to see how this plays out.

Its funny, Dorinda has very little use for Sonja herself and she has only just met her, she does not know her at all, but she is criticizing Heather for her lack of patience even though Heather knows Sonja much better. I suspect Heather carrying Sonja up the steps was filmed but not shown because it may have been to graphic and or Sonja exposed too much.JMO