S01.E09: Pimento

[Lingo]

I like Kim as a character, so I should probably clarify.  Clearly no one can go up against the great Chuck McGill.  Still, as Jimmy's--let's say 'close friend'--her decision to stay with HHM feels painful to me; I think it's likely meant to.  I know she has her own dreams and her own plans for her life; it's just that Jimmy is getting kicked in the ass so hard and with such frequency that I wanted someone, anyone to have his back, and the only person left for that is Kim.  

It's tough to watch a show where the protagonist is repeatedly getting his heart ripped out.  Jimmy needs a break.  And a hug. 

 

She really did have his back this episode, though.  I'm not sure what else she could do, aside from quitting the firm in protest.  Which would be a huge, life-changing decision for her.  It's true, we know she works for at least 2 dicks now, and we would like to see her quit and make a firm with Jimmy.  But that's such a huge decision.  And she says she literally owes them.  If she quit, maybe they can go after her for what she owes.  But hopefully we'll see her quit next season.

[turbogirlnyc]

Wow, I was so wrong. Last week I said that Chuck didn't respect Jimmy but that I didn't think that Chuck would intentionally screw him over -- just fail to stand up for him. I was wrong. It was him all along! It certainly puts into a new light Chuck's suggestion in the premiere that Jimmy change his name. Do you think that Chuck is so ashamed of him that he doesn't even want to share the name McGill with him??

It also puts Hamlin in a new light, to some extent. Now I'm not entirely sure how much of a dick he is. He did show considerable restraint tonight, except when he lost his temper with Kim (who deserves a Badge of Courage for sticking up for Jimmy). If you think about it, he's probably had to endure Jimmy's misdirected ire for some time, so he's bound to have developed some hard feelings in reciprocation. But I'm sure he's still something of a dick as well. He probably feels the same way about the U. of American Samoa, and let's not forget that he took some of Jimmy's cake, and he banished Kim when she lost the Kettleman case, and of course Hamlindigo.

So are we supposed to assume that Jimmy's only two options are to either give the case to HHM or do it all himself? I would think there must be another high-resource, high-prestige law firm somewhere close enough who could handle this case and would be happy to hire Jimmy for bringing it to them (after all, the retirement home company has branches in 5 states). Do you think we're supposed to ignore this option? Or does the fact that Chuck's involved make this impossible -- or the fact that they used HHM's resources in the last episode? I'm surprised that plot point did not factor into this episode, though maybe it will next week.

P.S. to Chuck: you're a rich lawyer -- hire someone to bring your damn food to your house!!

If Jimmy can't take the case to another firm due to some "loophole", I'm sure Hamlin would've called him on it.

[thuganomics85]

Holy shit!  I think some posters called it last week, but it was still a huge reveal.  It was Chuck all along who had held Jimmy back.  I'm sure he was never Hamlin's  top choice, but I really do think that Howard was playing up his "hatred" for him, and now I really want to know more about what he really thinks about this.  Among all the things this twist has given us, I appreciate that it has made me interested in a character that was mainly one-dimensional for the majority of this season.

 

The crazy thing is, on some levels, yes, I do see what Chuck is coming from.  "Slippin Jimmy" does make appearances from time to time, that can be troublesome.  But, my issue is that I feel like Chuck never was willing to give him a chance.  I don't understand why he didn't try him out in a smaller position, try to work with him and fix whatever issues he was uncomfortable with, and if it doesn't work, can him.  But, he just seem to assume the worst of him.  He claimed he was taking short-cuts and stuff, while it sounded more to me that Jimmy worked hard.  Sure, it wasn't a prestigious school, but talking night classes while working full-time is commendable, IMO.  I think Chuck wanting Jimmy to stay in the mail room was what really got me.  I think, in Chuck's mind, that is Jimmy's "place."  And, it was wrong for him to try to go for something higher.  And, that's what makes me go past understanding, to just wanting Chuck to fuck off.

 

And, really: I don't Chuck has ever, ever showed him any gratitude for helping him live the way he does.  A lot of siblings would have just left him to his own devices, but Jimmy went out of his way to be a good brother.  And, Chuck fucked him over.  So, yeah, he's an asshole.  I don't care how bad it would be: I am rooting for Jimmy to get revenge, by getting the power turned back on, and forcing all those "electrolytes", on Chuck's lying ass.

 

As for Kim, I have no issues for her. I feel for her.  She really is the only one that goes to bat for Jimmy, and there is only so much she can do.  As for why she stays with them, I can only imagine how hard it will be to get another job in that position, after however long she worked to get there.  So, I don't blame her for wanting to stay.  As for not telling Jimmy about Chuck, it was deceitful, but well-meaning.  I think she just didn't want Jimmy to find out what his own blood did to him, and rather take the hit herself.  If anything, I really respect her now.

 

Thank goodness we got plenty of Michael being awesome to counter all this.  Loved him taking down the trash talking jackass (really loved that the actor did the voice/motion capture work as Trevor on Grand Theft Auto V), and causing the big guy to bail.  All of his scenes with this Price guy was great.  And, finally!  Nacho has returned!  I was missing that guy.  I really hope they are setting it up for him to be the big reason Mike gets deep in the crime life.  As usually, plenty of stellar work from Jonathan Banks.

 

Highlight though goes to Bob Odenkirk, with Michael McKean a close second.  Everyone was great actually; even Rhea Seeborn and Patrick Fabian actually did some high-quality work just with looks and smaller lines.  But, Bob though: I really hope his comedic past and a tough field, doesn't hinder any Emmy chances.  I really think his acting on this show has been amazing.

 

I never should have underestimated Vince Gilligian and Peter Gould.  They just took a spin-off based starring a comedic character and an awesome, but typical badass, and made it one of the most compelling shows out now.  I'm just sad it's almost done already, but I'm glad we'll at least be getting more.  I really want to see Jimmy become full-blown Saul.  I'm sure after tonight, the journey is really going to begin.

Edited March 31, 2015 by thuganomics85

[editorgrrl]

I think Kim wanted to tell Jimmy what Howard told her. But the depth of depravity on Chuck's part was too much, and she was right to not tell him. Jimmy needed to know the truth but he didn't need to hear it from her.

Kim told Jimmy, "I just want you to be happy." And I think her grabbed the phone to call her and apologize.

[Pannekoeker]

Wow awesome ep!

I knew this was comming when Chuck wassnt really happy when Jimmy got his cheap law degree.

And i do totally get Chucks point (hes right cause we know how saul turned out).

But damn couddnt he help Jimmy to get a good degree, clean like Kim.

I mean he spend weekends and nights for that degree.

Surely mr bigshot lawer could have helped him to the right path.....

I just don get it. And this makes him a jerk eventough he has a point.

[Tabasco Cat]

As much as I hate Chuck now, you've gotta hand it to Michael McKean for bringing it. Everyone assumes Jonathan Banks's "I broke my boy" episode will get submitted for Emmy consideration in the supporting actor category, but McKean's "I know you! You're Slippin' Jimmy!" rant from tonight might deserve to be in the mix too.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I actually laughed at the reverse Michael Corleone staging just before the big reveal/fight at Chuck's.  Jimmy went into the next room and assumed the precise posture that Michael did at the very end of Godfather II.  Low in the chair, arms covering the arms of the chair, legs crossed just so, dim lighting.  Then, just as in the movie, the double doors were closed by the protagonist's partner.  Fates were sealed and the man in the chair knew what epic changes were to come, the one shutting the doors did not.

 

Just as expected, the weight of discovery was going to be massive and impossible to overcome without the backing of a big firm.  That's our law, folks.  It adds to my anger at Chuck, who is pretentious enough to be the defender of such obscenities.  VG made an incredibly deep and important observation of civil law/justice and the utter evil in the hubris of the (mostly) men like Chuck who have brought us here.

 

As previously noted, it makes no sense whatsoever for Jimmy to give the case to HHM.  At a minimum, he could (and the Jimmy I've seen, would) have auctioned it off to the highest reasonably competent bidder.  By then, he cared not for legal ethics.

 

Question:  Do y'all think that Chuck merely guessed at the coming hearing for a restraining order, or was he tipped?  Did he invite the document dump?  Just how bad do y'all think he broke in this treacherous betrayal?

 

ETA:  My Godfather description was not exactly right.  But, the scene in BCS was most definitely an homage, in my opinion.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Lonesome Rhodes

[haydensterling]

She really did have his back this episode, though.  I'm not sure what else she could do, aside from quitting the firm in protest.  Which would be a huge, life-changing decision for her.  It's true, we know she works for at least 2 dicks now, and we would like to see her quit and make a firm with Jimmy.  But that's such a huge decision.  And she says she literally owes them.  If she quit, maybe they can go after her for what she owes.  But hopefully we'll see her quit next season.

 

I don't disagree, it's just that this show hurts!  As I said, I like Kim's character a lot, and I think she did what she could, but my anger at seeing the headfuck that Chuck pulled on his brother made me want more, like Oliver Twist.  I wish there was something anyone could have done to help Jimmy with the pain of realizing what Chuck really thought of him.  

I'd be happy if Kim left HHM, I can't lie.

[tennisgurl]

I know I SHOULD understand where Chuck is coming from but...God what an asshole. 

 

Yeah, Jimmy has made mistakes, but to act like the only thing he can ever do is work in the mail room? After he`s seen everything he is capable of? After seeing everything he has done for him? Just awful. 

 

I wouldn't blame Jimmy for never bringing him millions of packs of water ever again. Poor poor Jimmy.

 

I could watch Mike do speeches about the duality of humans being while beating up assholes all day long.  

[TrininisaScorp]

Here's the thing:  I still think Howard is an asshole.  The posters earlier, however, do make a good case and now we can probably say that Jimmy not getting the job at the beginning and not being able to stay on the case in this present time is at Chuck's okay and influence.  But Howard, doesn't like him either.  American Samoa University ain't gonna do it for a big (even local) firm like HHM and those two have been at loggerheads for ages now.  I also think Howard feels a little bad for Jimmy (in his way).  If I'm Jimmy, I think I would hate that so very much and I wonder if we get to see that play out.  

 

Like many of you, I'm seeing the path to Saul being a bit clearer.  I hope in all of this his relationship with Kim isn't sacrificed.  I think she has his best interests at heart.

[Lingo]

Yeah.  It does hurt to watch this show.  Hopefully the season will end on a high note, some way that Jimmy can turn the tables on HHM and Chuck in the end.

 

I was just reading tonight an article on msn.com about a convicted felon, a woman, who has been out of prison for 25 years and yet cannot hold down a job because her employers find out about her history and won't give her a chance.  The parallels are obvious.  Chuck deserves to be given a second chance.  You guys who are saying Chuck is kind of right, that Jimmy keeps slipping back to his Slippin' Jimmy ways: well he wouldn't have had to if his brother had been willing to give him a real chance!  People keep prejudging him and he can't catch a break.  And we've seen him cook up a couple of shady schemes this season (the skateboarders, the billboard rescue), but most of the time, and definitely since he's started his elder law practice, he's worked his tail off and he's trying to stay "clean" and he deserves respect for that.

[Irlandesa]

  I'd be happy if Kim left HHM, I can't lie.

I don't think I would be.  Yes, HHM, or specifically Chuck, hasn't aided Jimmy in any way for complicated family reasons.  But HHM, probably Howard, has definitely helped her.  They paid for her law school and gave her a job.  She has just as much reason, if not more, to be loyal to HHM as Jimmy has to hate HHM.  And I'd guess his opinions on the firm are a bit more complex knowing what he does about his brother's role in it all.   

[Nekko]

 

You guys who are saying Chuck is kind of right, that Jimmy keeps slipping back to his Slippin' Jimmy ways: well he wouldn't have had to if his brother had been willing to give him a real chance!

 

In Chuck's defense, how many chances has he given Jimmy?  At the point where he starts working at HHM, Jimmy might've gone through 20 years worth of "real chances."

 

 

As previously noted, it makes no sense whatsoever for Jimmy to give the case to HHM.  At a minimum, he could (and the Jimmy I've seen, would) have auctioned it off to the highest reasonably competent bidder.  By then, he cared not for legal ethics.

 

I think Chuck would have a claim that it is at least partially his case as well given his initial review of the documents, legal analysis, and research (including the use of HHM's resources).

[bannana]

Wow awesome ep!

I knew this was comming when Chuck wassnt really happy when Jimmy got his cheap law degree.

And i do totally get Chucks point (hes right cause we know how saul turned out).

But damn couddnt he help Jimmy to get a good degree, clean like Kim.

I mean he spend weekends and nights for that degree.

Surely mr bigshot lawer could have helped him to the right path.....

I just don get it. And this makes him a jerk eventough he has a point.

I think it's the opposite, that Chuck was wrong, and that it is his actions and his betrayal/lack of faith in Jimmy that lead him to become Saul.  Having watched BB, I have been watching to see how they are going to transition this generally likeable guy with pretty much a heart of gold into "Saul".  My hubby is watching with me and he hasn't seen BB, so he isn't watching for the same thing, and he loves the show too.  For me, while I saw some of Jimmy in Saul, I realized too that something monumental must have happened.  Last week I thought it was the mistake with billing to copies to HHM.  But this week it is completely clear, this is Cain and Abel level betrayal.  Even putting aside the assaults that Chuck made on him as being unworthy etc, and never amounting to anything beyond the mailroom and slipping Jimmy, I think that Jimmy figuring out how Chuck betrayed him, and putting it together just as we are here, is the biggest thing.  One of those life lessons.  And from here he changes his path.  

 

I don't think he will take the deal because he won't want them to make anything off of his case, but from the previews it doesn't look his case goes anywhere.

[Umbelina]

Reading though the reviews of this show is fascinating (I linked a few in the media thread.)

 

In a way Hamlin has taken the heat for Chucks jealousy/hatred/need to keep Jimmy in the place Chuck feels Jimmy belongs all along.  I didn't quite get that while watching, but in retrospect, Hamlin obviously told Kim what was up, and why would he bother if it wasn't to either relieve some guilt, or give Kim enough information to help Jimmy out? 

 

Oh, and bullshit on Chuck loving the law, and how noble he is!  No "noble" man is that jealous and hateful, especially not to his brother, who not only pulled his life together and WORKED to put himself through law school, but also cared for his crazy ass, with, as far as I could see?  Absolutely no gratitude whatsoever from him.

Talk about one sided sibling rivalry! 

 

Anyway, each reviewer seems to catch different things, and while I don't agree with all, I generally get insight I might have missed.

 

Either way, this is the last season for Mad Men, and I really want a few of my favorite actors to finally win some awards for their incredible work.  Better Call Saul and The Americans are going to give them a run for their money though.  Deservedly.

I don't think he will take the deal because he won't want them to make anything off of his case, but from the previews it doesn't look his case goes anywhere.

 

I hope Jimmy does take the deal, it's seed money for him to get out of that closet and into an office of his own, even if it is in a strip mall.  That said, he could always just settle with the other lawyers, clear $60K that way.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Umbelina

[shapeshifter]

Vince Gilligan, master storyteller, still has it.*

That pastoral opening scene with the gentle sounds of spring life--yet so ominous. I wondered if Chuck would die. And now he is dead to Jimmy.

Last week I sensed it would go down like this--that Jimmy would become Saul to distance himself from Chuck--but I couldn't articulate it, because it had not yet quite unfolded.

I can't hate Chuck because my mother refused to give me a job in a store she managed when I was newly divorced and unemployed with 3 kids. She said I couldn't work with people. But she continued to support me in other ways, and now I've worked for 20 years serving people. If I had instead been able to move near her 20 years ago, I would now be able to take care of her. Instead, we are 4,000 miles apart. I wonder what will become of Chuck.

Great casting. They really do look like brothers, especially with the camera angles, lighting, etc.

Kim was in many ways to me the heroine of the peace.

Jonathan Banks' scenes were all perfection. The take down of the guy with the guns bordered on preposterous, but it was believable because of the element of surprise.

Kaylee's mom choosing to keep the dog rather than letting her FIL keep it so her daughter could "come over and see it any time she wants" was a little bit a mirror of the Chuck/Jimmy story, but not so gut wrenching.

*ETA: I see that Thomas Schnauz wrote and directed this episode, but am I still correct in assuming that it is still VG's story?

Edited March 31, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Lonesome Rhodes]

A couple of more things...

 

Jimmy would now never trust HHM to give him a true 20% cut - just as Mike cautioned Uncle Tissue to count the cash Nacho would give him.   If Chuck would mess with him about shopping the case, Jimmy would have a ton of knowledge he could use to ruin Chuck.  As angry as he is, I believe he would, too.

 

Loved the pimento sandwich bit.  The Masters golf tournament is coming within a fortnight and they are world-famous for offering them to their patrons in a green wrapper (they don't have fans or crowds, doncha know) at a most reasonable price, along with coke-colas.  I think the price is now all the way up to $4 for that pairing.  I'm trying to discern the deeper meaning of VG's choice of "Pimento" for the ep title, though.  Any ideas? 

[Lizzing]

I absolutely loved everything with Mike.  That speech about being a criminal he gave the pill selling guy is something he probably would have told Walter if he had met him earlier in Walt's meth business building days.  I have to remember how much I loved that part of the episode so I don't get irrationally angry at TV characters on the Jimmy/Chuck/HHM stuff.

 

Ya know, I laughed on BrBa when Saul said he got his law degree from correspondence with American Samoa University, but that's when we met Saul as a "criminal" attorney...as in an attorney who is a criminal.  At this point in the story on BCS, he's not that far down the rabbit hole.  Sure there was the scam with the skaters, but he didn't keep the Kettleman's money and was doing legit work for the elder law clients.  Chuck's betrayal was just awful.  Jimmy has done so much for Chuck, and it was like none of it mattered.  For all his fancy legal elitist mega educated bullshit, he can't see how good Jimmy has treated him.  Jimmy kept him out of the loony bin, for crissake.  And thinking back to when Jimmy passed the Bar, HHM didn't have to hire him as an associate.  They could have transitioned him from the mail room to a secretarial or paralegal position.  I know three people who went that route; one who had law license from a neighboring state but not in this jurisdiction (we don't have waiver, you have to retake the Bar here), and two who did the night law school at a university of only moderate repute (an undeserved opinion to my mind, but a common view).  They all worked a couple of years in the "lower" stature position, got lucky with mentors, and went on to great legal careers.  Chuck could have given Jimmy that shot, and if he fucked up, toss him out.  But doing the work of what most firms here employ college kids or retirees who need extra cash for is just plain shitty.

 

My take on whether or not HHM has any claim on the class action suit comes down to what is in Chuck's partnership agreement.  The charging of Westlaw research to his personal number doesn't have anything to do with it.  Every firm I've ever worked for lets you charge stuff to your personal number, including things like FedEx and copies.  It comes out of your paycheck or you write a check to the firm, so you pay for it, not the firm or any client.

[Nekko]

 

My take on whether or not HHM has any claim on the class action suit comes down to what is in Chuck's partnership agreement.  The charging of Westlaw research to his personal number doesn't have anything to do with it.  Every firm I've ever worked for lets you charge stuff to your personal number, including things like FedEx and copies.  It comes out of your paycheck or you write a check to the firm, so you pay for it, not the firm or any client.

 

Even if it is to his personal number that ultimately gets billed to Chuck, that would still seem to give Chuck a claim to the case and by extension HHM (I have a hard time believing any HHM partnership agreement would allow for a multi-million dollar class action case outside the partnership).

[Consternation]

I absolutely loved everything with Mike.  That speech about being a criminal he gave the pill selling guy is something he probably would have told Walter if he had met him earlier in Walt's meth business building days.

I keep thinking, what if Mike makes it his business the next few years to take these jobs working for nerdy dudes trying to become drug dealers, and tries to talk them all out of going any further with it.  Haha, I just love Mike.

[henripootel]

I know I SHOULD understand where Chuck is coming from but...God what an asshole.

Indeed.  How about this Chuck - you take your brother under your wing and help make him the lawyer you think all lawyers should be.  In any case, stop fucking pretending you exhausted your options with 'fuck over my brother for the greater good'.  

 

And let me be the 100th to say it - god I love Mike.  And I'm just hoping for the day I hear VG has persuaded Giancarlo Esposito to come back to New Mexico.  

[Tabasco Cat]

Just as expected, the weight of discovery was going to be massive and impossible to overcome without the backing of a big firm.  That's our law, folks.  It adds to my anger at Chuck, who is pretentious enough to be the defender of such obscenities.  VG made an incredibly deep and important observation of civil law/justice and the utter evil in the hubris of the (mostly) men like Chuck who have brought us here.

...

Question:  Do y'all think that Chuck merely guessed at the coming hearing for a restraining order, or was he tipped?  Did he invite the document dump?  Just how bad do y'all think he broke in this treacherous betrayal?

 

Of course he invited the document dump! Here is his ne'er-do-well brother who just pulled off an amazing bit of lawyering by finding the Sandpiper case. Can't have that, now, can we? He got his law degree in a box of Cracker Jacks and me and my buddies at HHM went to fucking Harvard for pete's sake! Who does he think he is? Chuck torpedoed the whole thing sitting at the table last week and telling the Sandpiper attorneys that they wanted $20 million. Could have demanded $2 million and settled right then and there. But no, that would mean Jimmy actually accomplished something. And Chuck's ego could never accept that. Chuck is a piece of shit and whether or not he's right about a chimp with a machine gun, the fact is it was Jimmy who played rainmaker on that case. Nobody else. And Chuck couldn't stand to have Jimmy taste any success with it.

[solea]

Sometimes I just want to run around the room, babbling and waving my arms, because I can't find adequate words to describe how great this show is.

 

Chuck is 100 times worse than we thought, Hamlin not as bad as we thought, poor Kim sticking her neck out for Jimmy then having to try to get him to take the deal while not revealing anything.  And Jimmy.  What a blow.  But I like that Jimmy didn't crummple into a fetal position at this betrayal, but instead played Chuck for a few minutes and then walked the fuck out.  Odenkirk has been killing it!

[coloradoqt]

 

P.S. to Chuck: you're a rich lawyer -- hire someone to bring your damn food to your house!!

or eat shit and die!

[Lizzing]

Even if it is to his personal number that ultimately gets billed to Chuck, that would still seem to give Chuck a claim to the case and by extension HHM (I have a hard time believing any HHM partnership agreement would allow for a multi-million dollar class action case outside the partnership).

I don't disagree!  I can't imagine a partnership agreement that would let a multi million dollar class action walk away.  I just don't think it's hinged on doing some Westlaw research billed to Chuck's number.  It's Chuck's work that ties him to the case.

 

I'm on the fence whether Chuck invited the document dump.  Having been a civil defense lawyer for longer than my gut could tolerate, it's common to document dump.  On a Friday, at 6:01 p.m. (or whatever is common closing time), even when the documents were prepared on a Tuesday.  (I clearly take this show too personally and need to migrate back to reality TV for my own sanity and so I don't get banned. Mea culpa.)

[PrincessSteel]

I am in a bind, here. My husband is away tonight on business and we agreed that we would watch tonight's ep together tomorrow night. But I just couldn't wait and I watched Pimento by myself. Do I fess up or do I watch with him tomorrow night and pretend that I don't know what's coming?

Mike would say that I am already a criminal, I suppose. Now I just have to decide whether I'm a good guy or a bad guy.

My heart breaks for Jimmy and for Kim. The look on her face when Jimmy was accusing her of selling out just killed me. Although Jimmy did not say so explicitly in his confrontation scene with Chuck, he must have figured out that she was truly looking out for him. I hope so.

What gorgeous storytelling. The wait between seasons is going to be a hitch.

[placate]

I've spent HOURS looking at pimento cheese recipes because of this show and all I can really take away from all this is that I hate olives and olives are nothing without pimentos.  Can someone tell me what breed dog that is that Mike got his granddaughter?  I really loved his scenes this week but I have this feeling that he's going to end up working for Nacho.

 

I really think that Jimmy should take the money.  I feel there might be a few more seasons of this left because of the BB characters that haven't shown up yet.

[dwmarch]

I've been lurking in this forum because my usual stomping grounds are Hawaii 5-0 and The Blacklist and those shows are just so easy to snark on. This show gives me nothing to nitpick and no strange motivations to question.

 

Hamlin is a dick but maybe not as much as he seems. Kim comes in and tells him, the big name on the door, that he is wrong to have done what he did. She says this from across the room with the door open. As is his duty, Hamlin tells her off after trying to obliquely inform her of Chuck's treachery. "The partners discussed it" comes up a few times but Kim doesn't clue in that ALL the partners discussed it. Hamlin had to read her the riot act for her breach of protocol but at least he gave her a detailed explanation when he figured out she wasn't going to put two and two together.

 

I don't agree with Chuck but I see where he was coming from. Here's our associate from Harvard, here's a fresh face from Yale and here's Jimmy from the University of American Samoa. What do you mean he looks like the type of lawyer guilty people hire? Wait, come back!

 

Was Nacho buying meth precursors?

 

There was a period detail I loved: Hamlin's computer was rocking Windows XP with the Luna theme. I'd recognize that Fisher-Price interface anywhere!

[LotusFlower]

Oh crap. I've got the replay on and I just saw Chuck coming downstairs (the day after) and he's whistling. I cannot imagine that Jimmy could have disgraced Chuck so badly to deserve that contempt.

Yes! That was vintage Walter White. Or should I say Heisenberg?

[ketose]

There was a period detail I loved: Hamlin's computer was rocking Windows XP with the Luna theme. I'd recognize that Fisher-Price interface anywhere!

The funny part is that XP wasn't really available in early 2001.

 

Chuck ends up being responsible for a lot of the horrible shit that happened to Jimmy. It now looks like Hamlin went into the copy room on Chuck's request. I'm sure Jimmy continued to ask Chuck to talk to Hamlin. Eventually, the stress made him invent a condition that made him unable to participate in work anymore. His illness made it so Chuck could stop having Jimmy ask him for legal career help. I have to wonder if Hamlin tried to talk to Chuck, since it would have been apparent to him that Chuck got sick because he wouldn't let Jimmy work at HHM. Obviously, Charles McGill is a big box of crazy.

 

I started thinking that the BB watchers among us probably fell into the trap of assuming Hamlin had some undefined deep-seated resentment toward Jimmy, kind of like the way Walter White seemed to feel about Grey Matters. It turned out in this case that Chuck resented Jimmy for a very obvious reason. He had to help Jimmy get a job at the firm and then he turned around and tried to ape Chuck's career path.

[BeatrixK]

As much as I hate Chuck now, you've gotta hand it to Michael McKean for bringing it. Everyone assumes Jonathan Banks's "I broke my boy" episode will get submitted for Emmy consideration in the supporting actor category, but McKean's "I know you! You're Slippin' Jimmy!" rant from tonight might deserve to be in the mix too.

I am not unfamilliar with Michael McKean's talent:  Srsly...if you've seen him in any of the Guest movies - he's flawless in every one.  But MAN!  THAT was freakin LENNY - Squiggy?!?!?!?!??!  DAMN!!!!!!! 

 

That episode had it all, and book it - done:  Will be nominated for an Emmy in writing.  Just so much BAM!

 

Odenkirk....how the EFF did you make my heart break for Saul Goodman?!?!?!?!?!? 

 

Finally - Mike's speech crystallized exactly why he didn't like Walt from the outset in BB...and why he had a soft spot for Jesse.  And, again..I pity anyone up against Johnathan Banks in this years supporting actor Emmy race...because they will pretty much lose.

[DrSpaceman]

Well I suspected Chuck was behind Jimmy not being hired and was just using the other lawyer (Hamlin) as a front for him, but I never suspected his feelings were as harsh as what he said.  "You are not a real lawyer".  Really, he passed the state bar, he is a lawyer, whether Chuck likes it or not. 

On the other hand, Hamlin is still an ass for other reasons.  The way he talked to Kim for one thing.  And what he did to her after she lost the one case with the crazy embezzlers, briefly, as well, moving her office and punishing her as if it was her fault. 

 

 

Mike awesome once again.  Loved his speech about good guys/bad buys and criminals.  So true. 

[DrSpaceman]

Lots of Chuck hate, I see.  It was cold but I can see where Chuck's coming from.  He has a mountain-sized amount of pride for what he's accomplished.  And if you take pride in all of your hard work, Jimmy might look like one of those guys who takes the easy route.  The confrontation was a great scene, though.  Maybe the first (except for the entire Mike episode) on this show to capture my undivided attention.

 

Mike is awesome.   

 

 

Chuck may have been a great lawyer at one time but then he also has ceased being a lawyer for a period of time due to his clear paranoid psychosis, which he still is in complete denial about, while Jimmy is out actually working and being a lawyer recently.  I would argue Chuck has not been a real lawyer much either recently until Jimmy came and handed him this case. 

 

I don't think working a job and working your way through any law school on your own, and passing the state bar, is an easy route by any means.  Its a different route.  In true Jimmy fashion, he found a way to make it work and through unconventional means. 

 

Plus Chuck could have just told Jimmy himself rather than hiding behind Hamlin.  He didn't have to say "you aren't a real lawyer", but he could have explained he didn't think he was right for the company. 

 

This puts the entire "electromagnetic sensitivity" issues in a new perspective.  Jimmy, while he pretty well knows Chuck is delusional, is completely supportive still of Chuck, keeps him from being committed at the hospital and is still there for him and supports him even though Chuck is clearly psychotic (I say that clinically, not in the vernacular).  Chuck, on the other hand, after Jimmy turns his life around and actually is trying to make something of himself, is completely dismissive of his efforts and refuses to acknowledge his accomplishments. 

 

Its seems Chuck, while he may have been annoyed at the old Jimmy, rather enjoyed the prior dynamic of the big brother taking care of his simple, troubled little brother and did not enjoy when all that was about to change.  Now it seems he his motivation for getting in on the RICO case was not because he wanted to help out Jimmy.  Now I question if from the beginning he was basically angling to steal the case from him for the company.  He had to know how much work this was going to be from the outset and that two men likely couldn't do it themselves. 

[Chaos Theory]

Don't get me wrong, I get where Chuck is coming from. He worked hard to get where he got and he loves the law and looks to be a honest attorney and Jimmy comes along and after years of being a fuck up takes the easy path. It is bound to chafe. That being said: you do not do what Chuck did to Jimmy especially after everything Jimmy has done for him. If Chuck feels that way about Jimmy he should have been the one to tell Jimmy from the start and help him you know maybe earn it instead of being dismissive of his acomplishments.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[ToastnBacon]

I've been lurking in this forum because my usual stomping grounds are Hawaii 5-0 and The Blacklist and those shows are just so easy to snark on. This show gives me nothing to nitpick and no strange motivations to question.

Hamlin is a dick but maybe not as much as he seems. Kim comes in and tells him, the big name on the door, that he is wrong to have done what he did. She says this from across the room with the door open. As is his duty, Hamlin tells her off after trying to obliquely inform her of Chuck's treachery. "The partners discussed it" comes up a few times but Kim doesn't clue in that ALL the partners discussed it. Hamlin had to read her the riot act for her breach of protocol but at least he gave her a detailed explanation when he figured out she wasn't going to put two and two together.

I don't agree with Chuck but I see where he was coming from. Here's our associate from Harvard, here's a fresh face from Yale and here's Jimmy from the University of American Samoa. What do you mean he looks like the type of lawyer guilty people hire? Wait, come back!

Was Nacho buying meth precursors?

There was a period detail I loved: Hamlin's computer was rocking Windows XP with the Luna theme. I'd recognize that Fisher-Price interface anywhere!

One of the more rationale takes that I've seen on this episode.

When Chuck blurted out "You're not a real lawyer!" He said it in a tone that sounded like a little kid. I can just just hear the director telling him, "do it again, but this time think of two little boys arguing over a toy."

They even blocked the shot of Chuck's face to make him appear childlike.

Yes, Chuck has some unresolved issues from childhood, and he is being a bit of a dick; however, that doesn't mean he is wrong.

They called Jimmy, "Slipping Jimmy" for a reason, and they will soon be calling him Saul Goodman.

The "chimp with a machine gun" was my favorite line of the show because it was the harsh truth about a lovable character.

I think it was the harsh truth that this episode's teaser alluded to. Jimmy has to come to grips with the fact that he is a scammer at heart, and will always be a scammer.

My guess was that Nacho was buying something along the lines of a pharmaceutical pain killer that is commonly used by recreational drug users, like OxyContin or Vicodin.

Edited March 31, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[ShadowFacts]

 

Lots of Chuck hate, I see.  It was cold but I can see where Chuck's coming from.  He has a mountain-sized amount of pride for what he's accomplished.  And if you take pride in all of your hard work, Jimmy might look like one of those guys who takes the easy route.  The confrontation was a great scene, though.  Maybe the first (except for the entire Mike episode) on this show to capture my undivided attention.

I can't cut Chuck an inch of slack here.  His pride in what he has accomplished is not tempered with any humility.  He has managed to do "great" things at HHM, but he is now totally dependent on his chimpanzee-with-a-machine-gun younger brother.  Suck it up, Chucky, your little bro has more decency and compassion and guts than you will ever manage to scare up in yourself.  What he did is totally indefensible.  I am notoriously bad at predicting plotlines in t.v. shows, but I am patting myself on the back a little with this one.  I could see from the moment Chuck answered Jimmy's question about hiring him after he passed the bar with, "As what?" that Chuck was going to break him and send him into Sauldom.  Chuck is going to have to man up and take on some psychiatric help to get his ass back into HHM without them having to go off the grid when he comes to the office. 

[Blackie]

You know, I'm starting to give Howard the benefit of the doubt here. I'm thinking if he were that big a dick, he wouldn't have told Kim the truth. Maybe he urged her to use her friendship to try to get Jimmy to take the deal because he didn't want Jimmy to lose out after all that hard work. He's been doing Chuck's dirty work for years now and it certainly looked to be wearing on him tonight.

Ya know you are helping me to see Howard in a whole new light. Great show, I guess there are never really total absolutes.

 

 

Chuck is the "beloved" partner, everyone coming out to welcome him back and Howard is the one probably everyone in the office hates, but yet behind the scenes Chuck is the dick and Howard  ended up being the decent one by telling Kim the truth so at least Jimmy would get some money.  Chuck was happy for Jimmy to get nothing and continue to be his caretaker.  The good criminal and the bad cop.

I'm not getting the Hamlindigo reference????

ETA:

My guess was that Nacho was buying something along the lines of a pharmaceutical pain killer that is commonly used by recreational drug users, like OxyContin or Vicodin

 

I assumed the guy was another veterinarian, referred by the first vet, selling ketamine.

ETA:

am in a bind, here. My husband is away tonight on business and we agreed that we would watch tonight's ep together tomorrow night. But I just couldn't wait and I watched Pimento by myself. Do I fess up or do I watch with him tomorrow night and pretend that I don't know what's coming?

 

hah I just saw a headline online last week "Can sneak watching TV ruin your marriage"

Edited March 31, 2015 by Blackie

[queenanne]

I knew Hamlin didn't hate on Jimmy.  I just knew it.  Patrick Fabian never played that.  He took the cake, after all.

 

That said, I did wrongly peg Chuck of being sincerely glad for Jimmy but maybe that's because Michael McKean is that great an actor in the opposite direction. ;)

[nachomama]

I'm a firm believer that some of the smartest people in the world never get their break, Jimmy is clearly as smart or smarter than Chuck, to pass the bar is huge, much less pass the bar having studied at Samoa whatever. The stupidest people in the world can go to Harvard. Abraham Lincoln practiced law and never went to law school. Just like Mike illustrates every day, never judge a pimiento cheese sammich! (Hate pimiento cheese, blech) 

 

Am I crazy or is "Price" the guy who eventually becomes the mini van driving dude who whisks Walter "out of town" he disappeared witnesses etc for Saul? I think Walter didn't actually get in the van.

[ToastnBacon]

 

Am I crazy or is "Price" the guy who eventually becomes the mini van driving dude who whisks Walter "out of town" he disappeared witnesses etc for Saul? I think Walter didn't actually get in the van.

I vote for temporary insanity on this.

[shapeshifter]

...I would argue Chuck has not been a real lawyer much either recently until Jimmy came and handed him this case....

True, and yet that was not one of accusations Jimmy threw at Chuck during the final confrontation. Even now, Jimmy respects Chuck's legal acumen.

 

...Now it seems [Chuck's] motivation for getting in on the RICO case was not because he wanted to help out Jimmy. Now I question if from the beginning he was basically angling to steal the case from him for the company.  He had to know how much work this was going to be from the outset and that two men likely couldn't do it themselves.

which makes Chuck the bad cop/lawyer and Slippin' Jimmy the good criminal.

The elderly people for whom Jimmy was willing to put in so much personal time will now die before they see a penny. Instead, their neglectful offspring will reap payoffs. Maybe it's just as well people like Chuck and Hamlin take that case. Jimmy's too noble to see it go down like that. In his eventual move to being a "criminal" attorney, he seems to be able to work within a more honest framework of right and wrong than a firm like HHM ever will. For those low on the totem pole of the drug trade, it is often the only alternate economy open to them because of circumstances of birth or already having been labeled felons. </end pontification>

...I'm not getting the Hamlindigo reference????....

Hamlindigo blue was the custom color of the bespoke suit Hamlin wore, which Jimmy learned when he decided to use the Kettlemen hush money to pull off the billboard scheme--which, BTW, brought him the elderly clients whom he genuinely helped give peace of mind in parsing out their Hummel figures and other possessions of sentimental value. Nobody was harmed.

[ghoulina]

This episode was completely heartbreaking. It actually made me cry. I just wanted to reach into the TV and give Jimmy a big hug. 

 

I was sooo wrong about Chuck. So naive. I guess I just really WANTED to believe that he truly supported his brother. I liked Chuck. I felt bad for him. I was rooting for him. At the start of the episode I felt frustrated, because he was back to lights off and no cellphones, and I was all - what gives? Didn't you just realize this is all in your head? It really made me want to finally know what caused this, what has made Chuck so entrenched in this thing? Now....I don't care. I'm over indulging his weird illness. I just don't give a fuck. 

 

The way he utterly gutted his little brother...."You're not a real lawyer". Damn. I could have just slapped him right across the face. Who are you to say Jimmy isn't a real lawyer? Because he didn't go to a prestigious law school? So fucking what? He passed the bar, same as you. As far as I know, there aren't different bar exams for different schools, are there? So where does he get off being such a prick? Chuck prattles on about how hard he worked, and I'm sure he did - well so did Jimmy! He went to school while working. He needed three tries to pass the bar. He lives/works in a freaking nail salon and scrapes up any and every case he can! He may not have been AT it as long as you, because he's younger. That's not his fault. But he has worked pretty damn hard if you ask me. 

 

Gah, the whole thing just infuriates me. I get being wary, because Jimmy has been shady before. But everything about him becoming a lawyer was completely above board. No, to me it just seems like a case of the big brother not wanting his little brother to copy him. Of always wanting to be superior to him. Jimmy is fine working with me, as long as he's in the mail room. Fuck that. 

 

I made a statement a few episodes back that perhaps I WAS being naive about Chuck - that perhaps we're only seeing him as this "nice, helpful" guy because of his illness and how much he relies on Jimmy. It looks like I was right about that. 

 

And, while I still find Howard to be pretty douchey, I have to wonder now - would Jimmy's fate at the firm have been the same if Chuck hadn't pushed to keep him out?

 

 

 

LOVED the Mike scenes. It's awesome how the most taciturn (tm Jimmy) guy on the show is the comic relief. But he was cracking me up! The way he schooled the other "bodyguards" and then had to coach his client on how to do the deal. Hilarious! I was pretty pissed that that rube didn't offer him some more money for doing all that leg work and basically handling the whole thing. 

 

I did love the more serious moment, when Mike was explaining the difference between "good" criminals and "bad" ones. I was totally with him on that, and it really seems to be a running theme in Gilligan's world. 

Edited March 31, 2015 by ghoulina

[DrSpaceman]

One of the more rationale takes that I've seen on this episode.

When Chuck blurted out "You're not a real lawyer!" He said it in a tone that sounded like a little kid. I can just just hear the director telling him, "do it again, but this time think of two little boys arguing over a toy."

They even blocked the shot of Chuck's face to make him appear childlike.

Yes, Chuck has some unresolved issues from childhood, and he is being a bit of a dick; however, that doesn't mean he is wrong.

They called Jimmy, "Slipping Jimmy" for a reason, and they will soon be calling him Saul Goodman.

The "chimp with a machine gun" was my favorite line of the show because it was the harsh truth about a lovable character.

I think it was the harsh truth that this episode's teaser alluded to. Jimmy has to come to grips with the fact that he is a scammer at heart, and will always be a scammer.

My guess was that Nacho was buying something along the lines of a pharmaceutical pain killer that is commonly used by recreational drug users, like OxyContin or Vicodin.

 

 

I don't think the "chimp with a machine gun" analogy works mainly because from what we have seen from Jimmy so far as a lawyer, he is anything BUT that.  He has been the exact opposite, cautious, follows the letter of the law fro the most part.  He did take the money initially from the embezzling husband/wife, but didn't he end up giving that back and convincing them to turn themselves in and taking the plea deal in the process?  The line from the wife where she states "You're the type of lawyer guilty people hire" perfectly sums up the Jimmy McGill lawyer we have seen so far.  He was far from Saul.  They WANTED Saul, they needed Saul, he gave them Jimmy because Saul as a lawyer does not exist yet.  We know how Jimmy ends up as viewers so Chuck's assessment ends up being true, but we really have no evidence at this point, just forgetting what we know about Saul, that Jimmy would go that route.  Thus far he has been a hard working, pretty honest lawyer.  Chuck has no evidence yet that Jimmy would turn out as he described.  Therefore I think that statement is made more out of resent and a bit of jealousy as well rather than some basis in current truth. 

 

I actually agree with the fact that Jimmy really did not belong as a lawyer at that firm initially, before he got the RICO case.  Once he had a huge case though, should have just hired him on.  No matter where such a lawyer came from or their background, he broke a huge lawsuit open.  At that point you have to give him a chance at least.  If he screws up and doesn't work out, you can fire him.   

[Milburn Stone]

Isn't [slippin' Jimmy] what he really is?

 

The way I see it, Jimmy has Slippin' Jimmy inside of him, and could go that way--but the other side of him, the decent, hard-working side of him, only needs encouragement in order to flower and predominate. Encouragement that sadly he's never going to get. 

 

Chuck seems to think that ending up as Lawyer Slippin' Jimmy is Jimmy's predestined fate. It is his fate, but it was never predestined. It could have gone the other way, with love and mentoring. A curve ball that breaks bad could also have broken good.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[Ronin Jackson]

I saw Chuck's betrayal coming... but not to the degree that it actually unfolded. I'd imagined Chuck having more misgivings about it. But making Howard be the villain again while he acted appalled (a scene well played by McKean)... that's so gutless. And Howard definitely comes off better... he's showed genuine loyalty to Chuck even if Chuck doesn't deserve it.

[ghoulina]

And i do totally get Chucks point (hes right cause we know how saul turned out).

 

But maybe he turned into Saul because of what Chuck did. Maybe Saul came about because no one would give Jimmy a chance. Yes, he had a past. So do many people. But people CAN change. Maybe if Chuck had been a truly supportive and encouraging brother, Jimmy would have stayed on the straight and narrow (mostly, he is a lawyer after all) and been a damn fine, serious lawyer. 

 

My guess was that Nacho was buying something along the lines of a pharmaceutical pain killer that is commonly used by recreational drug users, like OxyContin or Vicodin.

 

It's been about 7 years since I've worked in the pharmacy, but the quick glance I got of those bottles looked like OxyContin or Morphine Sulfate. 

[Milburn Stone]

But making Howard be the villain again while he acted appalled (a scene well played by McKean)... 

 

You said it. Playing the "appalled" card so that it felt 98% genuine, with just a trace of artificiality--that is some finely calibrated acting. McKean is a master. 

[Ronin Jackson]

BTW... is Vince Gilligan getting too much credit for this show? Peter Gould has actually written more episodes this season and they are both running the writer's room. But VG is often the sole showrunner cited when this show gets praised.

[ToastnBacon]

I don't think the "chimp with a machine gun" analogy works mainly because from what we have seen from Jimmy so far as a lawyer, he is anything BUT that.  He has been the exact opposite, cautious, follows the letter of the law fro the most part.  He did take the money initially from the embezzling husband/wife, but didn't he end up giving that back and convincing them to turn themselves in and taking the plea deal in the process?  The line from the wife where she states "You're the type of lawyer guilty people hire" perfectly sums up the Jimmy McGill lawyer we have seen so far.  He was far from Saul.  They WANTED Saul, they needed Saul, he gave them Jimmy because Saul as a lawyer does not exist yet.  We know how Jimmy ends up as viewers so Chuck's assessment ends up being true, but we really have no evidence at this point, just forgetting what we know about Saul, that Jimmy would go that route.  Thus far he has been a hard working, pretty honest lawyer.  Chuck has no evidence yet that Jimmy would turn out as he described.  Therefore I think that statement is made more out of resent and a bit of jealousy as well rather than some basis in current truth. 

 

I actually agree with the fact that Jimmy really did not belong as a lawyer at that firm initially, before he got the RICO case.  Once he had a huge case though, should have just hired him on.  No matter where such a lawyer came from or their background, he broke a huge lawsuit open.  At that point you have to give him a chance at least.  If he screws up and doesn't work out, you can fire him.

Chimp with a machine gun works to describe Jimmy perfectly. In episode 1 look at how his scheme with the skateboard twins went sideways.

He was damn lucky that he was able to talk Tuco into only breaking their legs.

The bribe and the billboard stunt could have easily ended in disaster.

Also, hiring Mike to break into the Kettlemans house and steal the money could have ended in disaster. Mike didn't run off to Nassau with the loot, but he could have.

It might take a while for the Chimp to accidentally chamber a round and switch the safety off the machine gun, but when he does, look out!

I love chimps, but they have no business having the power of a machine gun put in their hands. I love Jimmy, but he has no business having the power of a law degree.

HHM might very well be an unscrupulous and an savory firm beneath to gloss of their shiny building, but I seriously doubt that Hamlin and Chuck would ever pull off such dangerous and high risk stunts to get a case.

Sooner or later someone will get hurt, and we know that they do.

Heck, ask the skateboard twins what they think about Jimmy McGill, Esq.

[attica]

When Chuck was laying out his 'you're not a real lawyer' case, and spat out contemptuously "The University of American Samoa?!?", did anybody else say out loud to their screens in equal contempt "Go Land Crabs!"? I'm pretty sure it wasn't just me....