S05.E13: Forget

[Dodginblue]

Like others, I don't feel it's a trust issue.  I think Rick trusts Glenn/Maggie/Michonne implicitly.  But he's not looking to plan with and confide in people with rose colored glasses, who want this too bad and may attempt to talk him out of it.  At this point, Carol and Daryl are on his wavelength.

 

I think Carol may be on another wave length altogether.  Like she's ready to get medieval on their asses.

[Yolapukka]

Carol's Suzie Homemaker ruse should have sent up huge red flags for CDB, as they all know damn well what she's capable of, and it's obvious that they're trying to hide it.

 

 

I'd have to guess they'd all need to be in on the ruse somewhat because all of them, with the possible exception of Father PP know what she's capable of and would have given nearly as much praise to her in their interviews as they apparently showered on Rick unless they were pointedly keeping it to themselves..

 

I can only assume that they've also kept mum as to the depth of the experiences on the outside because they are playing their cards close to their vest until they understand the place. Partially because a lot of those events, like seeing a beloved patriarch beheaded is intensely personal painful stuff you wouldn't share with a stranger. Mainly,  I think they don't want to let on to what they been through because they don't want to alarm Deanna and her people, both by giving  them a heads-up as to what they are fully capable of and giving information that would colour their perceptions of them as people. However it means they also aren't telling Deanna about the real extent of the dangers out there and that's making it difficult to understand their paranoia. I'm not sure she'd get it by being told about the Termites, that story even might make her inclined to discount their concerns because that situation was so out there, so extreme that she could think it was a one-off that has made it impossible for them to perceive  the dangers of the world rationally. I think it's more the stuff about the Marauders, Randall's group and the governor that would make her see sense. Especially Randall's group, because it shows her the kind of savagery that was already going on in the early days, when many people were still helping strangers and resources were fairly plentiful.

Edited March 9, 2015 by yuggapukka

[Amelie06]

 

Rick going for the 1st basic ass chick he meets?  So disappointing! Her greatest loss in all of this is probably that she left behind her collection of Ugg boots, Hollister gear and Friends DVDs.

I have to agree with this. I didn't really see some kind of love connection between Rick and Michonne (though I wouldn't be upset if it happened), but I kind of thought that he would go for another badass warrior type. Jessie seems nice, but ridiculously clueless. While everyone else has been living through the Zombie Apocalypse, she's been living through the video for "Love is a Battlefield."

 

Did anyone else notice that Jessie kind of cringed away from her husband at the end? They are both walking away from Rick and the husband puts his hand on her lower back and it looked like Jessie kind of tried to avoid the contact. It seemed to me like that was the reason why Rick reached for his gun. He seems to be suspicious of their relationship.

 

Aaron seemed to be doing to Darryl that thing people do with animals where you let them smell your hand first so that they can get used to you and won't attack. It worked. I actually loved all of their scenes together. Aaron acquitted himself nicely in the attack scene. I thought it was interesting how well they worked together and decided, without a big discussion, that they were going to save this horse. I kind of thought Aaron was assuming Darryl was gay when he was talking about being an outsider, like Darryl. Later I realized that he was probably just likening his situation to Darryl's.

 

I kind of thought it was a dick move for Sasha to shoot up the pictures of that happy family. Those pictures are probably the only proof that these people ever existed and she shot it up just to ring a bell for walkers. Not cool. But it looks like she has a cute new love interest. I liked him and maybe Sasha being a hyper vigilant crazy person will actually have a good effect on him. I think he was Deanna's older son who was the only person in this entire little development to think that someone should be in a watch tower at least part of the time.

 

I don't know what to say about Carol. She's crossed a major line. I know her back was against the wall, but I don't see Rick or Darryl doing that to a child.

 

If Rick and Sasha get love interests, why can't Michonne? Michonne is hot as hell. Don't tell me that no one would want to get with her. There probably isn't a world catastrophe that would be so bad that one person wouldn't be like, "Damn!" about Michonne.

 

I liked the very quick scene of Noah getting officially brought into the fold. He may not have felt like he was really part of the group until that moment. I liked that Glenn seemed to be telling Noah to stay because he, Glenn, needed people he was comfortable with around him at the party.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I hope we get a quick scene in the next ep or two.... "Why do you kids always have cookies?  And why does all your underwear have racing stripes in them lately??"

Edited March 9, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[jay741982]

Ah snap. Jesse. We have our new Lori/Andrea. The female in a genre show that gets hate on like crazy while doing not nearly enough to deserve the hate (IMO). Damn, I really don't care. Let Rick get laid. Dude really needs to unwind. Yes, I would prefer it if was a with a woman that was single woman. But, can't be too choosy in the ZA. I don't give a damn about Michonne/Rick. I see zero (negative) chemistry between them romantically. So, whatever to that too.

I like Jessie and she does not deserve this hate Rick and Michonne ARE NOT A COUPLE. I agree with you Let Rick get Laid. I don't think Jessie will cheat on her husband it's crazy people threatening to Quit watching cause Rick kissed Jessie on the cheek. People Richonne can still happen down the road. Calm down lol

[morgankobi]

That police officer must have married well to have bought an $800,000 home.

Found it odd that A-A-Ron  said "walkers" when talking to Daryl when they first ran into each other in the woods, instead of his usual "roamers."

 

Daryl, about Buttons (heh): The longer they're out there, the more they become what they really are. Preach. Also, RIP Buttons :(

haven't seen anyone alive or dead in weeks, my ass!

 

A fucking cocktail party?!? These people.

The ZA is good because people made friends? Lord have mercy, the delusion is strong with this one. And now a pasta maker?????

 

I'm thinking the only people Daryl could recruit are young girls with a penchant for bad boys.

 

They may not notice the window is unlatched, but someone might notice the puddle Sam left on the floor.

 

I really thought Deanna was asking Sasha to listen so she could hear how weak and utterly useless these people are, and then give her a dangerous job protecting them.

 

Hey look, it's Chekov's sword!

[truelovekiss]

Jesse has now mentioned two times the lack of babies in Alexandria. Odd since its been two years and the town seems to have couples that should have had babies by now. Speculation:

Maybe the town folk have fertility issues and she wants something from Rick and her husband the Dr. is in on it.

I have thought for awhile that it wad a matter of time before they run into some baby obsessed group (I thought it would be at the hospital, but I was wrong) that is focusing on repopulating, and would recruit CDB. They have managed to raise Judith so far (thanks to Rick's crushed acorns), they have several women of childbearing age (Maggie, Rosita, Tara and Sasha, at the moment) and two men (Rick and Abraham) that have fathered children and are presumably still fertile. At this point, I'm not sure that is ASZ's angle, but it's going to happen at some point.

[jonesingjay]

Rick's possible descent is compelling. Liked the end of the episode, especially that he was on Morgan Street.

[morgankobi]

I am bothered by the shot of the 'W' branded walker after the group walked away from it, because in that shot it was upside down and was an 'M.' If I were to brand someone, the best way would be if they were tied down, and I was standing at their head.

 

(lol, Nashville, I just figured out where your profile pic is from!)

[bunnyblue]

Boring. Dull. Awful. For me, this was the worst episode since "Slabtown". I don't give a crap about a bunch of red shirts that are taking away screen time from established characters. Gabriel & Eugene have been non-existent and Tara, Rosita, and Noah are getting scraps.

 

Alexandria is Woodbury 2.0 except that it's leader isn't a psychopath. But she is a politician so it may end up being worse. There are just too many characters now and they need to thin the herd by next season or I fear I'm in for some terrible remix of the farm & Woodbury. Please start with Jessie and her family, Olivia, Aiden, and Nicholas.

 

I don't know how Team Grimes didn't go off on those people and their party. How am I supposed to care about any of these morons if all they talk about is food, book clubs, stamps, video games, and teeth. Do they get dressed up and throw parties for every Tom, Dick, and Harry that joins their community? What a completely foolish waste of limited resources. These people are living in a fantasy world and I'd be pissed if I was one of the few who had to go out on runs while all the useless buffoons get to hide behind the walls. I think I understand why Deanna wants Team Grimes - they need to be protected from the real world so the ASZ residents can go on pretending life is just like before. I wish Sasha had bitched out everyone instead of just the "what's your favorite meal" lady. Ricktadorship NOW!

 

Speaking of Rick, WTH?! Making the moves on a married woman? He may actually be worse than Shane if he goes through with it. At least Shane thought Rick was dead. There was some serious character assassination going on with Rick & Carol tonight.

 

I give a big FU and middle finger to the writers for killing yet another horse. I'm convinced it's some sort of in-joke or  they think they're being cleverly edgy in killing a horse nearly every season. I hope they get a lot of flak for this latest BS. Was it really necessary to come back from commercial and show the suffering horse being eaten alive?! Walkers can kill people, people can kill people, but I draw the effing line on showing a helpless animal suffering. Between gunning down and eating the dogs and tonight, this show's perverse sense of entertainment is losing me.

 

The only saving grace for me was Aaron and the brief moment between Maggie, Glenn, and Noah. Everything and everyone else can suck it.

Edited March 9, 2015 by bunnyblue

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Unless I missed a mention or introduction, its clear that Alexandria is missing what is needed most... a psychiatrist.  Can you just imagine CDB on the couch??

 

"What's on your mind, Rick?"  "Just some stuff and thangs.  I really want Jessie, but she's married.  Ever helped dispose of a body?  We aren't weak.  When I get 'voted in' as Ricktator, you'll be one of the first to go."

 

"Why are you here, Carol?"  "I brought you some cookies, silly.  Have you ever wondered what the worst way to die is?  Because I have.  You will give me a clean bill of mental health or I will give you a firsthand demonstration of what could be the worst way to die.  Now how 'bout a bite of my applesauce cookies?"  *nice smile*

 

"Daryl, what brings you by today?"  *grunts*  "They said I had to come.  And what d'you care?  You don't give a damn about me, about us.  If you're just a new way to tell me to shower, you can just go to hell.  I gots a critter to gut on the porch, so hurry this shit up."

 

"Sasha, thanks for coming to see me."  *she walks in, staring at all the pictures on surfaces and walls.  looks around wildly, pulls out gun*  "Well, would you look at the time.  Our session is over for today, Sasha.  Have a nice day and please don't dally on your way out.  Kthxbye!"

Edited March 9, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Meraji]

I am however officially Team Sasha at the cocktail party of the damned.  These people are yammering on about how the ZA gave them the opportunity to have new cultural experiences and whining about a lack of good tea and pasta makers and she's just looking at them like "Uh, guys.  My boyfriend was literally eaten by cannibals and the last meal we had before we got here was a pack of dogs I shot myself."

 

Yes, but unfortunately she didn't say it out loud. Communication is key. The indoor people aren't mind readers and they're also just playing the hand they were dealt, like the outside group. They could be considered lucky or sitting ducks. But the problem with being safe in the walls is boredom and I don't see anything wrong with dreaming of a better future (or pasta maker) because that has to be the end game with everyone at some point.  Though a pasta maker is a stupid wish. Just use a rolling pin and a knife.

 

I don't understand why Rick would rather the group look insane, rather than have a little sit down with Deanna.  You see it all started with these guys named Dave and Tony.  Then we met this guy calling himself Governor, running a town called Woodbury.  We stumbled upon a sanctuary named Terminus, where the cannibals almost killed us all.  Luckily we escaped, but they managed to eat Bob's leg.  And if that wasn't bad enough, Grady is now run by a rapey group of former cops, who run people over before bringing them in for treatment. There is no reason that I can fathom that they're keeping these things secret.

This! A thousand times this. Communication, people! And they wouldn't have to explain how they got out of the situations or how much killing they did. Just explain why they're skittish about integrating and giving up their weapons because there are human threats they couldn't fathom until now. I thought the congresswoman wanted Rick's experience and intel. Her reluctance to have a lookout is disturbing even if the gory details of the outside world don't come out.

 

 

I honestly don't need to see another mass slaughter of no-names to drive home the point that the world is dangerous. What's the point of trying to survive if not to look towards the future of civilzation? If Rick and co. mess this situation up where's the hope there will ever be a better setup?

 

On the other hand, if they are ousted from "A" for Alexandria, they need to keep heading north, well into Canada or upper Maine, to the combo of a sparse population coupled with cold cold winters that would freeze the few walkers there in their tracks. You can't tell me that walkers are plowing through multiple feet of snow at a time.

[minamurray78]

I just realized the cookie kid Carol scared is Jessie's son, right? The one who stamped people? I wonder if that plot is gonna come back.

I want Aaron to be one of the good guys, if only because I like both the character and the actor. I think he's spot on about Daryl, well maybe not to do the recruitment speech, but he can recognize between good and bad people. He'd far better than Eric out there.

Eta: what about Rick's missing gun? I thought it was Enid, since she was outside ASZ when CDB got there, but now? Is it supposed to be the wolves?

Edited March 9, 2015 by minamurray78

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

At first, I couldn't understand Carol's shooting up the walker before giving it a head-shot.  Then the explanation.  I was waiting for Rick to yell "Quit wasting ammo!!!" at her.

 

But I think we all know the real reason it took so long to put it down.   Damn thing wouldn't stop and stare at the flowers for her.

[Enero]

On the other hand, if they are ousted from "A" for Alexandria, they need to keep heading north, well into Canada or upper Maine, to the combo of a sparse population coupled with cold cold winters that would freeze the few walkers there in their tracks. You can't tell me that walkers are plowing through multiple feet of snow at a time.

.

I don't think Canada would work out either. The cold winters would not only freeze out the walking dead but the living as well. The gang was just scraping by in warm GA and VA weather. If they had to deal with the brutal winters of Canada on top of having to find food and warmth they wouldn't survive unless they got lucky and came across another Alexandria.

[Anela]

Damn it. I had a long comment here, and my tablet browser shut down on me. I'll have to come back tomorrow.

Zombies? No problem. Small talk about pasta machines? A fate worse than death! 

That was one of my favourite parts. I like the lighter moments, like, "We thought you were being eaten by dogs, man!"

[MrHufflepuff]

I think the pasta maker is a great idea.  Maybe they can open a restaurant.  Or even better, a chain of low-cost Italian restaurants with an unlimited salad bowl.  Commerce and industry, ahoy!

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I think the pasta maker is a great idea.  Maybe they can open a restaurant.  Or even better, a chain of low-cost Italian restaurants with an unlimited salad bowl.  Commerce and industry, ahoy!

 

Sounds good.  But they have to name all the restaurants "Uh Oh, Spaghetti-Os".  And have a horseshoe above each entrance.

[Hava]

Damn, I thought Daryl and Aaron's chemistry was off the charts. It will never happen, but I would be so proud of the show if it went there.

 

Rick looked mighty fine at the cocktail party. Swoon.

 

Am I the only one who doesn't have a huge problem with the town's ignorance/obliviousness? Sure, it would be good for them to acknowledge or even understand what's going on outside, but are we really faulting them for being happy and trying to make a good life for themselves?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Damn, I thought Daryl and Aaron's chemistry was off the charts. It will never happen, but I would be so proud of the show if it went there.

 

Rick looked mighty fine at the cocktail party. Swoon.

 

Am I the only one who doesn't have a huge problem with the town's ignorance/obliviousness? Sure, it would be good for them to acknowledge or even understand what's going on outside, but are we really faulting them for being happy and trying to make a good life for themselves?

 

Its not a problem that they've been safe and sheltered (so far), but Rick & CDB knows what's really out there - morrally corrupt and no scruples human beings.  And if the "W" walker was anything to go by, the 'Unfair' Wolves are about ready to crash the party.

[Irritable]

No, Hava, I feel the same way.  If they want to build a happy, functional society, I see nothing wrong with them being (seemingly) happy and functional because they are succeeding at their goal.  Wanting a pasta maker isn't just a pie-in-the-sky dream that only a clueless idiot could ever have in this terrible, awful world.  It would give them a way to make a large amount of food that feeds a lot of people at very little cost.  It means people wouldn't have to drive 50+ miles away to get more boxes of old, stale pasta.  And if they have been living in Alexandria for 2 years, then it's perfectly normal and natural to want to have some variety when it comes to food. Yes, out in the walker world people eat bugs and rats and roots, but that is only because they have to.  In Alexandria, not having to eat those things is kind of the point.  They are trying to live normal lives that are not based on being afraid every moment.  Part of being normal is the natural human desire to enjoy oneself.  It's instinct to want to survive, but when you are living in a world where your survival isn't threatened at all times, a person will eventually start to think about having things that comfort them and make their days better.  A cocktail party to help socialize the newcomers with the existing citizens sounds like a pretty good idea to me.  Sorry that Sasha has PTSD, but that doesn't mean no one else should be allowed to enjoy getting together under friendly circumstances.

 

It pisses me off that "our" people are only in town for 5 minutes and they're already making such an unprovoked mess out of everything. 

[GodsBeloved]

Am I the only one who doesn't have a huge problem with the town's ignorance/obliviousness? Sure, it would be good for them to acknowledge or even understand what's going on outside, but are we really faulting them for being happy and trying to make a good life for themselves?

No you're not. Yes they are lucky, have been lucky so far. I think Rick would have given anything to have found this place early on instead of having Carl and Judith living the way they have.

 

I expect Alexandra to turn out to be evil since Rick and his followers seem to be the only "decent" people left but at least for now, Alexandra represents a somewhat normal/more civilized way of living post ZA. I appreciate that at least for now there is a balance to Rick and crew's mindset. I will say though as I did last week that they can learn from each other.

No, Hava, I feel the same way.  If they want to build a happy, functional society, I see nothing wrong with them being (seemingly) happy and functional because they are succeeding at their goal.  Wanting a pasta maker isn't just a pie-in-the-sky dream that only a clueless idiot could ever have in this terrible, awful world.  It would give them a way to make a large amount of food that feeds a lot of people at very little cost.  It means people wouldn't have to drive 50+ miles away to get more boxes of old, stale pasta.  And if they have been living in Alexandria for 2 years, then it's perfectly normal and natural to want to have some variety when it comes to food. Yes, out in the walker world people eat bugs and rats and roots, but that is only because they have to.  In Alexandria, not having to eat those things is kind of the point.  They are trying to live normal lives that are not based on being afraid every moment.  Part of being normal is the natural human desire to enjoy oneself.  It's instinct to want to survive, but when you are living in a world where your survival isn't threatened at all times, a person will eventually start to think about having things that comfort them and make their days better.  A cocktail party to help socialize the newcomers with the existing citizens sounds like a pretty good idea to me.  Sorry that Sasha has PTSD, but that doesn't mean no one else should be allowed to enjoy getting together under friendly circumstances.

 

It pisses me off that "our" people are only in town for 5 minutes and they're already making such an unprovoked mess out of everything. 

10 thumbs up.

Edited March 9, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[Richness]

Apparently, I'm the only one who laughed their ass off at Michonne staring in hatred and disbelief at the cocktail toothpick sword. I just laughed, and laughed, and laughed, out loud even. I even paused it to laugh some more. I then continued to giggle about it until Carol scared the crap out of me.

 

I know Carol had to do something, but man, she's one cold hearted lady. The really scary thing is, I don't know if she would have actually killed the kid to keep their secret or not.

 

The Ricktator is definitely not adjusting to his new life, and is cracking under the pressure. I know Jessie was being some what flirtatious and coy earlier, but you did answer your door shirtless and cleaned. And the scalp sex she had with you by running her fingers through your hair was bound to have been nice, but it was just a haircut. Regardless, that's no reason to kiss her, and then nearly draw your gun on her husband later, regardless of how much of a porch dick he was.

 

Finally, Darryl. Don't tease us with sub-text like that if you're not going to deliver. Not funny, show.

[Gulftastic]

Poor Buttons! Imagine how good Daryl and Buttons would have been together.

 

And Scary Carol was awesome. The look in her eyes and even tone she used would have scared anyone, let alone a little kid.

[kikaha]

Rick + married woman = major league bad idea.  Especially in that small community. 

 

If Alexandria is as it appears, hard to see how they survived.  They would have been major targets, for all the marauding bands of people out there. 

 

Two things I still don't understand:  1) how the zombies threw the world into anarchy.  They simply move too slowly.  One person can kill them by the droves.  Even if humankind had to go through a bit of a learning curve, we are so much more powerful than they, eradicating them should not have been very hard.  2) related to that, why the humans don't continuously take out more zombies.  We can hunt them down, and so long as we encounter them in reasonable enough numbers (as the survivors usually seem to), should have no trouble thinning their ranks, and mostly removing the threat.  Knowing that the dead turn into zombies, we should be able to handle that, for the most part, as well. 

 

i.e. to make this world more believable, I feel the zombies should be more powerful. 

[ikmccall]

Didn't they establish earlier in the series that the walkers don't attack animals, just humans?  Or am I remembering that from other zombie movies only?  At one point, I thought there was a dog that could walk freely around the walkers with no trouble.

 

Just to add to what others have replied to this post, in season one, Daryl shot a deer but a walker got to it before he did.

[Lizzing]

The thing that bugged me most about Carol's gun stealing scene was that the kid was able to follow her at all and she didn't notice him.  I don't care that she scared the piss out of him.  He should know better than to skulk about in the dark alone.

 

I thought the "joke" of wanting to have a pasta maker, aside from the randomness and the reference to Animal House, was that eggs are in short supply, otherwise why would Carol have to use applesauce as egg substitute in cookies?  All you need for traditional pasta is eggs and flour, something to roll it out with, and a cutting tool.  They apparently don't have eggs.  (Why I don't know.  These people have been there probably ~2 years and SHOULD have cultivated some livestock.)

 

Why did they use so many disposable items at the cocktail party?  Do they wash and reuse them?  What are they doing with the trash?

 

Aaron is the most interesting new character to me.  Clearly he was following Daryl in the woods and waiting for him to come by Aaron's house.  I think Daryl accepted the offer to be a recruiter not just because of the dinner and the motorcycle, but also Aaron proved he was apt in the outside world.  They fought two groups of walkers together and lived.  Plus, Aaron's NGO experience would lend well with identifying "othered" people (in this sense, I mean that Daryl was never a suburbanite, or even probably lower middle class...he seems to come from a background of rural, live off the land, be distrustful of outsiders, not mainstream folk).  Aaron may be up to mischief, but I get the vibe he's got a better sense of what the world is than probably even Eric, and Daryl strike him as a good partner to go out and look for non completely psycho people to bring into ASZ.

 

The other one is Olivia.  She's a barista, ability to recreate fine Italian meats, and curator of guns?  Oh, do tell...

[Morrigan2575]

At first, I couldn't understand Carol's shooting up the walker before giving it a head-shot.  Then the explanation.  I was waiting for Rick to yell "Quit wasting ammo!!!" at her.

 

But I think we all know the real reason it took so long to put it down.   Damn thing wouldn't stop and stare at the flowers for her.

Not at all, she actually explained it in the scene.  Carol told Rick that they're excuse for going outside was to teach Carol how to shoot or to get her more familiar with a gun and that she couldn't go back from target practice with a full clip.  She shot up the Walker as part of their cover story.

[Haleth]

I burst out laughing at the W.  I knew there would be a collective cry of "unfair wolves!" across the country.

 

Cookies or death, y'all!  That poor kid is going to pee his pants any time Carol looks at him from now on.  (On the Talking Dead they decided Carol's bakery should be called Look at the Flour.  Ha!)

 

Like most everyone else, I'm hoping the writers don't go there with Rick and Jessie.  He needs to stay focused on keeping CDB strong and alert, not sneaking around with the pretty neighbor.  (Same goes for Daryl. And Michonne.)  Was the Scarlet Letter foreshadowing?  I immediately thought of Terminus and the A warehouse.  Red flags!  Also I was hoping when Deanna introduced Rick to Reg that Rick would say, "Oh, so you are the genius who put the DAMN SUPPORTS ON THE OUTSIDE of the walls?"

 

Pete suggesting Rick bring the kids in for a check up was almost as creepy as Carol threatening Sam.

 

RIP Buttons.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Haleth

[tv echo]

This episode was just screaming 'bad things are coming'.  I hope Rick doesn't turn bad - maybe it'll be like when he was thinking about giving up Michonne to the Governor, but he couldn't go through with it at the last minute.  He'll stop, think, and not cross the line.  

 

You can just see a big fight coming where lots of people are going to get killed.  It's a good way to weed out extra characters and mix up the group.  When they (inevitably) leave Alexandria, the main group will likely be a mixture of old and new characters.

 

FYI, here are some interviews in which Norman Reedus and Melissa McBride give insights into their characters' motivations in this "Forget" episode:

 

Walking Dead star Norman Reedus shares behind-the-scenes intel on Daryl's big episode

BY DALTON ROSS  Posted March 8 2015 — 1:41 PM EDT
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/03/08/walking-dead-star-norman-reedus-shares-behind-scenes-intel-daryls-big-episode

 

Walking Dead star Melissa McBride talks about Carol's big threat
BY DALTON ROSS  Posted March 8 2015 — 1:32 PM EDT
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/03/08/walking-dead-star-melissa-mcbride-talks-about-carols-big-threat

Edited March 9, 2015 by tv echo

[Bad Example]

I'm 100% convinced that stamp is filled with some kind of poison or drug. I think that kid was sent to spy on Carol.

 

This is the sort of paranoia that I fully support.  Nothing is good in the ZA!  Nothing!  

 

I've been thinking that if Rick makes them think they are insane it will keep the ASZhats off balance. And if they seem like they are struggling with adjusting then they have the element of surprise if/when they do try to take over the ASZ.

 

I want to believe this, but if it's the case, I don't think TPTB are doing a good enough job conveying it.  It doesn't need to be spoon fed, but I need to see a little more evidence that this is taking place.  

 

So many times I want them to be smarter than they are and to have a plan, and that just so rarely seems to be the case.

[Ellaria]

No you're not. Yes they are lucky, have been lucky so far. I think Rick would have given anything to have found this place early on instead of having Carl and Judith living the way they have.

 

I expect Alexandra to turn out to be evil since Rick and his followers seem to be the only "decent" people left but at least for now, Alexandra represents a somewhat normal/more civilized way of living post ZA. I appreciate that at least for now there is a balance to Rick and crew's mindset. I will say though as I did last week that they can learn from each other.

 

Whatever Alexandria is or isn't, they have survived without a leader like The Governor, without Saturday night zombie fights and without eating people. All points in their favor. Yes, it looks a silly to be sipping scotch and discussing cookie recipes when there are serious threats beyond their gates. It is also silly not to have someone in the guard tower. Still, they have done a good job of trying to re-establish a normal life. 

 

What's missing, IMO, is an honest discussion between Deanna and Rick/Michonne, etc about their pasts. This situation requires some necessary information-sharing. Has Alexandria ever been attacked by other humans? How many people has Alexandria lost on runs? Have they become desensitized to the threats? Deanna seems entirely too focused on what can be rather than what actually is. Rebuilding society is an admirable (and lofty) goal but if the proper adjustments haven't been made, it will be for naught.

 

Honesty works both ways, too. Was Rick (or anyone else) truthful about their experiences "out there"? Rick's comment about "taking this place" is disturbing. Equally concerning was his gun tap when Jessie and her husband walked by. When and why will Rick & the Gang decide that its appropriate to stage a coup? When a threat emerges and Alexandria is unprepared or when the Sunday BBQ doesn't have enough potato salad? 

Edited March 9, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[kj4ever]

Call me the minority when I say I don't think there is anything unnatural or forced about the Jessie/Rick kiss.  I think she has been kind to him because she has compassion for their group.  When he was "losing his mind" she spoke gently and softly about how it's okay if he's not okay with everything.  She got Carl together with the other kids.  I don't think there was anything romantic about the hair cut or anything else before the party.  She was being nice.  Some people are like that you know.

 

So I think the kiss on the cheek was just a "thank you" for her being so kind, but once it happened whoops there was this chemistry.  It happens.  Every. Day.

 

I didn't like the way her hubby talked to her when she said she would get them a drink.  The vibes are bad with that one.

 

Loved seeing Daryl make a new friend.  I like Aaron and have a good feeling about him.  It was interesting how Aaron still feels like a bit of an outsider because of his sexual orientation, and very realistic I think.  Even with all the time that Rick and Co. have spent with Daryl I still don't think any of them have a clue what that feels like - to feel completely alienated by society.  I didn't take Daryl not taking the gun as not believing in Rick.  I took it as they had all been asking him to give it a chance (both Carol and Rick) and he decided to do just that.

 

Rick keeping things between just Daryl and Carol?  I think that is more to protect the rest of the group rather than showing he doesn't trust them.

 

Carol is off the charts crazy.  The thing with the kid - to much.  My boyfriend thought for sure that Carol was going to kill them kid. 

 

Ahh buttons.  The moron humans killed all the zombies and let you be in pain till you were probably about to die anyway.  Couldn't they have shot the damn horse when it first went down so it didn't have to feel it's guts being ripped out?  Why show, why?

[Bad Example]

I can understand Carol going to grab a few guns, but the amount she was taking would be clearly noticable.  Somebody would have eventually looked.

 

I wondered about that, but if what Carol thinks is true and they rarely even look at them, I'm not so sure.  If it's not something you're paying attention to and you're NOT suspicious, you'd think, "I thought that had more in it?  Eh, maybe not."

 

Another thought on the guns:  We've seen that it's fairly casual.  Wouldn't it have been easier to grab a few extras when no one was looking when you're going out "legitimately", and then when you're very responsibly returning those guns, you just happen to forget a few you've hidden about your body?  It would take a little longer, but not much.

On a similar note, I do wonder if that extra chocolate she snagged is really what's going to get her into trouble.  They're rationing, and keeping the amount posted on the chalkboard above the freezer.  Someone might look into the missing chocolate.  

Edited March 9, 2015 by Bad Example

[nodorothyparker]

For as much as they go on about being a family, (which they totally are, and it's my favorite part of the show) they don't seem to pick up on a lot of the more subtle things that you learn about a person only through spending a lot of time with them. Carol's Suzie Homemaker ruse should have sent up huge red flags for CDB, as they all know damn well what she's capable of, and it's obvious that they're trying to hide it.

 

It really struck me this episode that our gang may still all be living together spread between two houses, but they don't seem to be talking to each other much.  That could be read as all of them are having such a hard time adjusting that they're deep into their own heads and not really paying attention to each other.  It could also be read as sloppy writing.  Otherwise, how do any of them fail to notice that Sasha appears to be emotionally bleeding out and that Carol! has gone all demented Betty Crocker in a series of tragic sweaters?  Michonne has been shown in the past to be pretty in tune with Rick's sliding sanity and she's not picking up anything off with him at all? I think you know there's trouble in paradise when a drunk Abe is the one coming the closest to trying to accurately read any of them.

 

I feel like I could easily make myself as crazy as Rick trying to decide if anything about Alexandria is on the up and up.  I really want Aaron at least to be the real deal because I'm really liking the character, but it was also obvious that the only rabbit he was hunting was Daryl.  That has the potential to be an interesting friendship, but I also agree with whoever said Daryl is yet again being written as a child.  The spaghetti dinner, telling him how smart and misunderstood he is, and the offer of shiny new toys was straight out of the child predator's handbook.

Edited March 9, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[Luckylyn]

I wouldn't mind the inane party chit chat if they were taking their security seriously.   Someone has to be in the watchtower 24/7 and there needs to be people patrolling the walls.   Everyone should be doing fight training, and there should be regular emergency drills to prepare for a possible invasion.   What's the protocol if someone inside dies unexpectedly?  Everyone walks around unarmed.   Alexandrians don't even appear to be wearing knives.  The guns are located in an easily accessible room where an enemy could raid it.  Even if Deanna doesn't want everyone armed there should be some armed people patrolling just in case.   After they've made more of an effort to to be more secure, than I wouldn't mind them having downtime and boring conversation.

 

CDB isn't much better.  The prison was ridiculously unprotected with their weak wall and zero preparedness in the event someone died inside.  Those were hard lessons that they could pass on to Alexandria but Deanna is strangely resistant to basic security measures.   It's common sense to have someone in the watchtower.   CDB needs to be more specific about the threats out there because Deanna is so focused on building the future that she's not dealing with the current urgent situation.   Alexandria's luck at being undiscovered so far by bad people has helped them so far, but they aren't ready at all if things go wrong.

 

Still Rick and Carol are being arrogant.  They know their strength and Alexandria's weaknesses but that doesn't mean Alexandrians can't learn to be strong quickly and fight back if circumstances force them.  Aaron is someone who could resist them, and they wouldn't see him coming.   He's knows how to be stealthy, and he's extremely observant.  Rick and Carol are so focused on the ways Alexandrians are too soft that they may not see the whole picture.  If they think taking over Alexandria is too easy than they won't be as careful as they should.  The boy being able to sneak up on Carol is an example of that.

[Enigma X]

I don't hate Jesse, I just hate where it seems that they are taking Jesse and Rick. I freely admit that I like Rick and Michonne as a possible pair. Although, I can live without it. I don't think the kiss that Rick gave Jesse was scandalous though, but I see no chemistry between the two actors. With Rick and Michonne I do.

 

And I know that this is UO but McBride is a mediocre actress, and I was over Carol before she even threatened the kid. Of course, for plot's sake, the kid will keep his mouth closed. As for me at his age, after leaving this crazy woman's presence, I would become the town crier! (I think most kids would too.)

[kj4ever]

While I didn't find the Rick/Jessie cheek kiss disturbing I did find it disturbing that Rick would let Judith be passed around like the new shiny toy in a house full of strangers.  WTF is up with that?

 

Deanna is delusional.  She thinks she's building this new society, but is it just me or was she a bit miffed when Rick was trying to tell her what security measures they needed to put in place?

 

I think her other son Spencer might have a clue.  She said he spends time up in the watch tower and I think he was genuinely trying to reach out a friendly helping hand to Sasha when she came to the party.  I'm hoping that he is truly her "good" son.  The only thing that would have made the Sasha scene more perfect would be if she would have head butted that moron after she yelled at her.

 

Speaking of Sasha, she has never been a character that I cared about but this episode helped me make a connection with her.  Same with Rosita and Abe.  Which means they are probably all about to die...lol

Edited March 9, 2015 by kj4ever

[ghoulina]

I kind of thought it was a dick move for Sasha to shoot up the pictures of that happy family. Those pictures are probably the only proof that these people ever existed and she shot it up just to ring a bell for walkers. Not cool.

 

I really had to wonder at why those pictures were in the house to begin with. When we first entered Rick's house, we saw a pile of empty frames by the door, so I assumed that the ASZhats got rid of all the photos of former residents so the new people could start fresh. 

 

The other one is Olivia.  She's a barista, ability to recreate fine Italian meats, and curator of guns?  Oh, do tell...

 

 

 

Right? I'm like, "She's in charge of the chocolate AND the guns? Who IS  this woman?"

 

On a similar note, I do wonder if that extra chocolate she snagged is really what's going to get her into trouble.  They're rationing, and keeping the amount posted on the chalkboard above the freezer.  Someone might look into the missing chocolate.

 

That's exactly what my husband said. He was all, "She just HAD to go for the chocolate. Now that chick is going to know she was there." 

 

Why couldn't Sam have found her when she was in the freezer, damnit? That would have been so much easier to play off. 

[Tippi Blevins]

Upon rewatch, I could swear that the look on Rick's face when he kissed Jessie was the same as when he was communing with the zombie at the fence.

[ElTVaddict]

Could someone tell me what "CDB" mean?

[chlban]

Which has largely been filled with UST and Rick kissing her on the cheek and Jesse holding Judith and being coy but flirty IMO. It's much too fast.

Well they are in the middle of the Zombie Apocalypse, so I would imagine that takes the concept of "living in the moment" to a whole new level.

 

I guess since I am a newbie and got my background via marathon watching I may have a different perspective, but I don't have a problem with the Rick, Jessie storyline. I am neither rooting for or against them as a couple although she did get on my nerves with here little speech about all they've lost last night. I mean, honey, you have an intact family. Hubby may be a dickhead, but he was probably a dickhead long before the ZA so, whatever. You are giving a speech to a widower. You may not want to give the same speech to Maggie and I would very, very strongly advise NOT to give it to Carol.   

[morgankobi]

I wouldn't mind the inane party chit chat if they were taking their security seriously.   Someone has to be in the watchtower 24/7 and there needs to be people patrolling the walls.   Everyone should be doing fight training, and there should be regular emergency drills to prepare for a possible invasion.   What's the protocol if someone inside dies unexpectedly?  Everyone walks around unarmed.   Alexandrians don't even appear to be wearing knives.  The guns are located in an easily accessible room where an enemy could raid it.  Even if Deanna doesn't want everyone armed there should be some armed people patrolling just in case.   After they've made more of an effort to to be more secure, than I wouldn't mind them having downtime and boring conversation.

 

 

Amen. At the bare minimum, Aaron has seen glimpses of at least how bad the "roamers" really are. It's not just crazy people they aren't prepared for, they seem to be ill-prepared for roamers, and they are literally right outside the gate.

 

What is so "long-term" about Deanna's thinking if it doesn't go beyond these walls. For someone so intent on rebuilding government/community, she seems to give no thought to the actual world. Are they just going to hole up and hope someone else figures out the mess outside? 

 

As always, I was thinking about the Unfair Wolves and wondering who wrote the message. Noah's community seemed closed, like this one, so I doubt is was passersby. Was it some community member when it was all hitting the fan, or a warning from one of the wolves after they demolished the place?

 

I think her other son Spencer might have a clue.  She said he spends time up in the watch tower...

 

 

What struck me was that she said he always left it up there and sometimes was a lookout. It seems as if it is supposed to look like someone is always there when there isn't. Is that to keep everyone inline, or to make everyone think they are being looked after (when they really aren't)?

Edited March 9, 2015 by morgankobi

[ghoulina]

Could someone tell me what "CDB" mean?

 

It stands for Camp Dinner Bell, which has been a nickname for Rick's group since season one. In Guts, when Rick  comes into the mall after shooting his way down the street, and now there are walkers pressed all up on the doors, Andrea tells him that his noise "just rang their dinner bell". And then the group continues to do idiotic things that practically bring walkers down on top of them. 

[morgankobi]

We may need to pin definitions for CDB and Unfair Wolves at the top of each episode thread :)

[Sakura12]

The cocktail party was played as uncomfortable and disturbing. We've been with our group so long out in the wild that seeing these complacent people is scarier then anything else we've seen including cannibals. 

 

With Carol she doesn't think of kids as kids anymore or at least they shouldn't be. She sees Carl who take care of himself, even Enid who scales the walls and does who knows what out in the woods, meeting her actual group, or just running around killing walkers. It's being trapped behind a wall that is scary to them. The real world is outside. Just like Sasha said that life isn't real to them, not anymore.

 

I don't ship on shows, so I don't care who anyone hooks up, anyone can die at any time you don't have time to date and see if you are compatible. But I agree Jessie is bland and married. 

 

Michonne is not included in Team Want-Take-Have because she likes Alexandria and wants to live there in peace and happiness. She's even hanging up her Katana in the house like a decorative memory piece. Why they are not telling some of the others is a mystery because as we saw at the party they are all uncomfortable and would probably buy into the always be prepared and armed group. 

[morgankobi]

The ASZhats take guns from all new people upon arrival, and they currently have a ton of guns. How many of them are from people they've taken in but are no longer around?

[Caelicola]

It's been very interesting reading everyone's opinions about this episode, because I think it was a difficult episode to parse. Now, the whole Rick-Jessie of it all didn't bother me, but if it bothered you, please keep in mind that I'm not telling you that you're wrong; I'm a firm believer that everyone is entitled to have a reaction and an opinion to every piece of media, and I respect everyone's position on this, as long as it doesn't extend to insults to the actors or to those who have a different positon.

So, I'm not telling you why you shouldn't be bothered, I'm telling you why I wasn't.

I didn't see anything predatorial in the kiss, and Jessie didn't seem to be creeped out, or scared, just taken aback, as was Rick himself. I also don't think it's a love connection, but I can see why Rick would be attracted to her: she's a very pretty stranger, who's been nothing but really kind to him and, especially, his kids; she understood the fact that ASZ is overwhelming to our group, and told Rick it was ok to not be ok; she's been saying pretty much all the right things to make him comfortable and at ease, and this is a man who hasn't been comfortable since he was shot in the first episode.

The gun thing was a bit creepy, but I, again, didn't see it as predatorial; having a weapon has become almost a security blanket thing for most of these characters, especially for Rick, who just last episode got up in the middle of the night to grab a kitchen knife, just in case. These are people who have gotten used to pointing a gun at everything they don't know/understand/like.

Lincoln is playing it quite unreadable, and I kinda dig that, because I'm constantly questioning the motivations of all ASZhats, so why not question the motivations of our main characters as well.

If he does go full Shane (which I don't think is possible, because at this point I think Shane was amateur hour when compared to Rick and Carol's levels of unadulterated craycray), he'll go full Shane for the completely opposite reason: Shane had gotten used to getting everything he wanted in Rick's absence -mainly, to BE Rick- and when Rick turned out to be alive, and Shane didn't get to be him anymore, he couldn't cope. Rick and Carol don't even know how to want things anymore, they're purely instinctual creatures driven by need and survival. Want hasn't factored in their lives for a veeeery long time.

I honestly don't think anything he's done in this episode is character assassination, and definitely not worse than a lot of other things he's done.

 

I also don't really understand the "Michonne has been right in front of him this whole time!" argument, because to my recollection she hasn't expressed any romantic interest in him (textually, I don't mean in subtext, or looks, or smiles, because those can be, and regularly are, interpreted differently by each viewer). She's not a jilted lover whose romantic overtures have been spurned, she didn't put on a dress and make herself pretty for him, she hasn't been waiting for him to notice her.

Now, I wouldn't mind it if Rick-Michonne were to happen, actually I'd love it, but I would also enjoy a Rick-Carol pairing, shallowly because these are three gorgeous humans, whom I also happen to find the three best actors on the show, so every scene they have together, in any combination, is a scene I know I'll enjoy. By that same token, I'd also like Carol-Michonne, or any of these three with Sasha. So, I'm flexible about that, is what I'm trying to say.

 

Which brings me to Sasha. God, I love Sasha, and Sonequa, to a ridiculous degree. I got her, I got everything she did in this episode, and I'm so glad they're letting her have emotions and PTSD. It's the equivalent of what would be called man-pain if she were a dude, and it's rare and unusual to get to see a woman mourn the two men she loved. It's usually the other way around, in media, and it has been on this show has well, see most of season 3 after Lori's death.

 

Now, this is where this episode gets difficult to parse, for me, and this is what I came away with, but I might be totally and completely wrong.

I'm automatically suspicious of every single ASZhat, but I think I don't need to be. I think they're exactly what they look like, regular people who may have some bad apples between them, but aren't as a whole ill-intentioned. I think Carol and Rick, in this episode, serve as a contrast and reminder: we see a community, a society, that has been largely left untouched by the ugliness of the world outside. Carol and Rick remind us that our group, our "heroes", have become fundamentally ugly people, regardless of how pretty they look all cleaned up (and boy, do they look pretty). Carol threatens a child with a horrifying death, which I'm actually not sure she'd have been able to carry out, but the fact that I can't rule out that she could is pretty indicative of where she is as a character. Rick insists on being armed and ready at all times,and is pretty much undercover as a regular human who can do human stuff and not freak the fuck out. They're ugly people, they've gotten ugly, because they had to. I think we're supposed to find them unlikable, weird and a bit terrifying, and we're supposed to be disoriented and disquieted by that, because up until now we could justify everything they had to do, and now we can't anymore, and we don't really know how to deal with following the point of view of the people who might turn out to be the bad guys in this situation after all.

 

I'm gonna leave the Aaron-Eric-Daryl thing for a later post, because I have Deep Thinky Thoughts about what Aaron told Daryl, and I want to have some time to organize those Deep Thinky Thoughts into a somewhat coherent post.

 

(Edited because, despite my deep and all-encompassing love for her, I managed to misspell Sonequa's name, dammit).

Edited March 9, 2015 by Caelicola

[leto]

Not feeling all these new people. After so many seasons with so little civilization, its just as strange for me as a viewer as it is to the group to adjust to all these clean, new people. I like Deanna and Aaron - the rest of these folks can go anytime now.

 

Carol is hardcore and will no doubt be saving everybody's butts for the second time all John McClane-style when the stuff hits the fan in Alexandria, most likely during the season finale, so I'm not at all concerned or surprised about her threatening a kid. As the show has established, she will do anything to protect her CDB/TeamPrison family. Unfortunately for Sam, he's not in that group.

[Samx]

Wow already so much to catch up on in this thread. Initial thoughts:

-Jessie: This episode, it really looked like she is just something that Rick can "take" - I got a huge Shane vibe from him, as others have said. When he reached for his gun, it reminded me of when Shane took Rick out into the woods and put him in his sights. I did not like the kiss. It felt predatory, awkward and kind of rude. I don't dislike Jessie but I hope they give her more of a backbone and I hope she at least pretends to fend off Rick's stupid kisses for a little bit. Ugh.

-Rick: I like the idea of Bad Rick but not if it means "taking" Jessie. That's just annoying.

-Carol: Am I the only one who was actually relieved she just threatened Sam instead of killing him? Loved her floral sweater and her Real Housewives of Alexandria persona but I can't wait til ASZ sees what she's really made of. 

-Sasha: I really did feel for her this ep. I myself thought about how much Tyreese and Beth would've loved ASZ. And I was also bothered by the trivial things the ASZhats felt were so important. I can see how the party feels overindulgent and meaningless, especially after what CDB/Sasha have been through. Maybe there is a therapist in ASZ?

-Daryl/Aaron: I really like Aaron and think he's one of the good ones. I think his friendship will be good for Daryl and I hope Aaron gets to stick around.

-Abe: I was so excited to have Michael Cudlitz on the show but I just can't connect with Abe. I hate the way he is written. They are really wasting a phenomenal actor.