Talking Dead: Where Chris Hardwick Got His Groove Back

[ghoulina]

Does Norman Reedus use a different voice for Daryl? Because I was listening to him tonight on TD and it struck me that he has a very pleasant speaking voice.

 

Yea, he does. He has sort of a perma-growl with a bit of southern accent thrown in, and then raises his pitch at the ends of his sentences. Or he used to anyway. "You don't know that GIRL. You're not getting on her HORSE!" 

 

Give those guys some room, too many large men on one couch.

 

I thought they should have made Kirkman sit in a chair, off to the side, not as much part of the group, maybe in the shadows a bit. 

 

Wow, backlash must already be huge...Hardwick is trying to rationalize the cliffhanger and actually said "they're not trying to screw with the fans".

Sorry. Not buying it.

 

Sometimes I just really REALLY want to know Kirkman's true feelings. He HAS to pay lipservice to the showrunners, because I doubt AMC would keep running TTD if Hardwick offered criticism of their little darling. But I really want to know! He can't seriously love everything they do. 

 

Bring Michael Rooker on. He isn't very subtle about pointing out the flaws. 

 

I'm pretty sure Kirkman hates Rick.  NO NO NO Negan and Rick are not two sides of the same coin. Nope.

 

Ugh, he irritated me SO much when he was going on and on about if we had watched The Saviors from the start, we'd see them the same as CDB. No. He kept saying Rick is a bit of a lunatic. Eh, he's certainly had his unhinged moments, and his hands are not clean. But he is no Negan and our group is still light years away from that group. They are content to live their own life and leave others alone. CDB has never decided that they own the entire world and they're going to go around terrorizing people until they get half of what they want. Kirkman thinks he's so deep, but he's an idiot. 

I find this difficult to believe. They must have immediately filmed the whole death scene. If not, Lauren must have meant that most of the cast don't know. The actor who was let go must know. Based on the interviews with previous actors whose characters were killed, they are always told one or two episodes in advance.

 

Knowing this show, there might not have been an actual death scene to film. They might very well be content with Negan hovering over the camera and blood dripping down it - and then they'll fucking start next season with the group burying the dead person and that's that. 

[SimoneS]

Knowing this show, there might not have been an actual death scene to film. They might very well be content with Negan hovering over the camera and blood dripping down it - and then they'll fucking start next season with the group burying the dead person and that's that.

You might be right. I could see this scenario playing out.

[DonitsYum]

The example of The Hatch reveal in Lost being used to justify this crappy ending makes no sense for the simple reason that the hatch episode by itself was excellent and contained a lot of story, action, etc.  This WD episode was 90% filler and the ending felt tacked on.  They have attempted to crack down on spoilers this season but good luck keeping the identity of the dead character hidden for the next 7 months.  Once it gets out it will completely wreck the intent of that scene, which was to show just how horrible Negen is and to put a definitive ending on Rick's dangerous "we are so badass" fantasy.

I totally got a "well this is my show and I'm going to do it anyway!" attitude from Gimple.  Chris looked panicked.  Norman looked kinda pissed.

Instead of  "Wow did you see what they just did?  Can't wait for next year!"  everyone is like...we have to suffer through FTWD discussions all summer (yawn).

[ghoulina]

If they attempted to crack down on spoilers this season, they failed miserably. I think this has been the worst one yet for spoilers. I am very spoiler averse and before the season even started I knew there was a guy named Negan, who carried a bat named Lucille, and was the leader of the Saviors, and was going to kill a character from the group. I even know who he killed in the comic, which I know is no guarantee. But damn. I don't WANT to know these things. But unless you avoid all social media, it's kind of hard. 

 

I also inadvertently found out about the big cliffhanger, but that knowledge didn't stop me from being totally pissed off. 

[callmebetty]

Bring Michael Rooker on. He isn't very subtle about pointing out the flaws. 

 

 

Ugh, he irritated me SO much when he was going on and on about if we had watched The Saviors from the start, we'd see them the same as CDB. No. He kept saying Rick is a bit of a lunatic. Eh, he's certainly had his unhinged moments, and his hands are not clean. But he is no Negan and our group is still light years away from that group. They are content to live their own life and leave others alone. CDB has never decided that they own the entire world and they're going to go around terrorizing people until they get half of what they want. Kirkman thinks he's so deep, but he's an idiot. 

 

Love Michael Rooker!!

I was thinking the same thing last night.  CDB is nothing like the Saviors and Rick isn't Negan.  Unless there is some back story that hasn't been shown about Negan, but is in the comics and I'm supposed to telepathically know this (cough, Abraham's backstory, cough), then I'm going to take what I've seen so far and make that my canon for the story. 

Rick didn't just wake up in the hospital and start amassing followers to take over the world.  He was looking for his family, found a group and we have followed that group through all the shit the've seen and had to do to survive this new world.  Rick doesn't kill indiscriminately to make others tow the line.   If one of his group went off on their own, he didn't burn half their face or chop off fingers to get them back in line. And I know Rick has plenty of faults, but total meglomania and pyschopathy is not one of them.  His Ricktatorship has nothing on Negan.

Hell, even Shane didn't just kill to make a point, he had reason's as crazy as they were, but they weren't so others would bow to him.  

Hell, if the Saviors had gone to the CDC, they just would have killed the doctor, since he was the only one there and just taken over.

 

I think the problem is you've brought in this talked about, infamous character who is supposed to be the biggest bad they've ever come across, that you cop out and don't show the kill he's been bragging about for ten minutes is a huge disservice to the storytelling you've been building to and mostly to the fans who have fueled that storytelling.

[Sakura12]

How is not knowing who died a closing of a story? If they have to pick up from there than that is the still the old story. Knowing who died would be closing that story to start a new one without that character. 

[AnnaMayWong]

Yeah. The Negan/Lucille death blow sound effects without any plans to actually 'illustrate' the gory body. If so, the ACTORS may not know WHO has been Lucilled.

[HighMaintenance]

For those interested: Chris Hardwick's Walking Dead Facebook page has a post of him doing an "impromptu chat" via the interwebs and his compewtor after last night's TTD.  He seems to be adamantly defending the season cliffhanger.

[shanndee]

For those interested: Chris Hardwick's Walking Dead Facebook page has a post of him doing an "impromptu chat" via the interwebs and his compewtor after last night's TTD.  He seems to be adamantly defending the season cliffhanger.

 

 

I can't look right now...please tell me that people are calling him on his BS.

[sadiespins]

Did anyone think it was odd that the Talking Dead didn't use any "live" questions? No audience member, Skype didn't work, the phone calls seemed generic and previously filmed videos didn't reference the cliffhanger at all because they didn't want to deal with fan backlash. They passed off Warrior Granny flirting with Norman to get our minds off of what we had just seen. I think they, especially Hardwick knew how pissed fans would be and they didn't want to deal with it on air. Even Jeffrey Dean Morgan seems a little uncomfortable and kept talking about how wonderful the actors were lined up in front of him, off camera. Probably because they were pissed as hell also.

[callmebetty]

You know if this is how Gimple wanted to play it, than own your shit. You want to end on a cliffhanger like that than you should have the balls to deal with the backlash.

[catrox14]

I find this difficult to believe. They must have immediately filmed the whole death scene. If not, Lauren must have meant that most of the cast don't know. The actor who was let go must know. Based on the interviews with previous actors whose characters were killed, they are always told one or two episodes in advance.

 

I kind of follow Supernatural and it's production more closely than any other show...(don't judge me. I love my Winchesters.) . They write about 4 -5 weeks ahead of filming and they take 8 days to shoot an episode. They just finished 11.21 which means that was probably written...back in  early March.   

 

So if that formula holds for the Walking Dead even if filming starts in the early part of May the script might just now be in development. They could be making the decision right now. It's a tight window but it could happen. Like I said I don't know if that formula applies here or not.  

[rab01]

Wow, way too many people on that couch. Especially with Kirkman's ego. 

 

I literally hated every answer he gave. He is really just so full of himself. "You better call me MR. Kirkman". Alright. Simmer down there, big boy. But seriously, you can tell that dude is not interested in interesting, beautiful story telling. He just likes taking out eyes "because it's cool" and personally LOVES cliffhangers. Yea, because YOU know what's going to happen. I really wish they would have never brought him on as a writer-producer-whatever for this show. Pay him handsomely for the source work and move along.

I thought that Kirkman said the opposite "you don't have to call me Mr ..."  JDM sounded so out of place when he did it that I thought he was actually covering for having blanked on Kirkman's first name ;)

My personal theory is that the cliffhanger is Gimple's idea, which is why he had a long-winded defense of it and looked so scared when addressing the fan reaction to it.  I think he was getting messages about fan reaction before Hardwick brought it up and was having an "oh shit" realization. Kirkman was much more casual and general about his defense of it - like, "It's not my problem but I'm gonna stick up for the guys who did it" kind of thing.  (Also, of course, Kirkman always has more of a "who gives a shit" vibe anyway.)

[ghoulina]

I thought that Kirkman said the opposite "you don't have to call me Mr ..."  JDM sounded so out of place when he did it that I thought he was actually covering for having blanked on Kirkman's first name ;)

 

I watched it twice. (Not because I loved it or anything, but I post on here when it's originally airing, therefor don't pay close attention. So I rewatch in the morning.) I definitely thought he said, "You BETTER call me Mr. Kirkman". But I love the idea of JDM not doing it out of respect, but because he couldn't remember his first name. I wish no one remembered him, period. 

 

As for whose idea the cliffhanger was, I have no idea. Kirkman did say that almost every episode of the comics ends on a cliffhanger. I get the feeling that he just loves the idea of shocking and wowing people, and has a very juvenile idea of what that entails. I also think he is socially awkward and doesn't realize, or care, what the reaction to the show is. It's still raking in the money, so he doesn't care. But Gimple definitely had a hand in it. He was way too defensive not to have. 

[candall]

I haven't watched TD yet because I was so annoyed by the cliffhanger nonsense, I didn't want to watch everyone high-fiving and slapping each other on the back on their awesome season finale.

 

So it tickles me that there might be a little bit of a perceptible "hummina hummina. . .UH oh, Programmer Error" vibe in evidence.  Too bad there weren't visible streams of sweat dripping down.  Since the show is live, it would have been hilarious if they'd hastily shut down one Skype call after another as the callers' lips formed an "F" shape.

 

But, irritating sycophant that he is, I think Hardwick watches the show from a couch seat similar to the rest of us.  He would have known that was a pissy little stunt and the response would be negative.

[indeed]

If Gimple was only realizing then that fan reaction might not be so warm and cuddly, then he is REALLY out of touch with his audience.

(I didn't quite catch exactly what he said but I think Kirkman was a little taken aback by the formality and was just being light-hearted about it. There are plenty of moments over his past appearances when he hasn't come off in the best light, but I don't think that was really one of them. It was a bit awkward anyway, JDM.)

NR only promoted his show for about 30 seconds, thanks to CH bringing it up. Gotta say, though, NR, Ewan McGregor kind of already did your motorcycle show years ago (and was very entertaining IMO).

[bosawks]

Gimple needs to realize he is way more Eli Roth than he is Elia Kazan.

[vibeology]

I don't mind Kirkman pointing out that the comics all end in cliffhangers. They do but comics are a very differ medium than TV. If there's a comic cliffhanger it doesn't screw over an actor for example. (Because how do they keep it a secret unless they keep everyone on set? And if they do that someone loses out on actual gigs.) Comic have a different pacing and audiences have different expectations. That Kirkman doesn't understand those differences isn't surprising since I remember his contribution to the show.

Gimple should, however, know better. It's tv. Every episode needs to tell a story, every season needs to tell a bigger story and the show overall needs to be a cohesive plot. This whole season has been a mess in that regard. What happened? How do the events tie together? A TV show should be more than a string of Twitter trending events strung together.

[indeed]

My understanding is that this huge moment was NOT a cliffhanger in the comic. So, why the hell make it one in the show? A cliffhanger does not successfully end one story so that another one can start. Whatever, Gimple.

[HighMaintenance]

For those interested: Chris Hardwick's Walking Dead Facebook page has a post of him doing an "impromptu chat" via the interwebs and his compewtor after last night's TTD.  He seems to be adamantly defending the season cliffhanger.

 

 

I can't look right now...please tell me that people are calling him on his BS.

Let me preface this by saying, I like Chris Hardwick overall as a host.  And I understand his fanboy-ish enthusiasm for this show, and horror/zombie genres. 

However, Chris I think was trying to do damage control to TWD and was basically getting riled up with some of the reactions the fans were sending his way - saying that people's opinions of the show's "bad writing" was BS, that the angry/disappointed fans need to suck it up essentially because that's how cliffhangers work, etc.  He was pretty defensive of the show and this episode. (He wasn't conversing with people on his video, just reading FB comments, I believe), so take it as you will - he was supporting his fave show while seriously limiting input from the other side, i.e. the angry fans giving their reasoning WHY they didn't like it, or HOW they thought it could have been better.

Edited April 4, 2016 by HighMaintenance

[magdalene]

That was a very awkward TD. The only one who came across as at ease was Norman Reedus.  He seems such a nice person and I am definitely going to watch his new show. 

 

I was very annoyed by the stupid cliff hanger.  I try to stay as unspoiled as possible for this show  and even though I do I couldn't help but catch on that Negan was an important character.  Well, I am not impressed with Negan. He is just another psychopath who really loves to talk and who has probably killed a character I like a lot.  Right now I a m very disenchanted with the show.

[Pete Martell]

I lost a lot of my love for the Talking Dead this season.  Show is there to help in the mourning - but  there has been no mourning and more anger on my part on being screwed with by the producers.

 

I think the show's become too self-aware and "inside" in general. I'd rather they just have actors and a select number of celebrity guests on and also tone down a lot of the schtick.

[NurseGiGi]

I would start watching TD again if Michael Rooker became a permanent cohost.  

 

I'm disappointed and disenchanted with the show and have been all season.  The second half was a definite improvement over the first half but this damn cliffhanger bullshit is just, well, bullshit.  And the only way I see a deflating of ego for Gimple and Kirkman is if they have a ratings dip next season.  If that happened I would love to see Gimple and Kirkman on TD trying to spin a tale around that one.

[GreyBunny]

"You BETTER call me Mr. Kirkman".

 

Sorry, pal.  After that idiotic stunt you just pulled you'll be lucky if I call you Bug Nuts.  That goes for you too, Mother Dick Gimple. 

 

I agree, those "technical difficulties" were awfully convenient.  They need to just sack up and face the criticism.  Cowards.

 

As for whose idea the cliffhanger was, I have no idea. Kirkman did say that almost every episode of the comics ends on a cliffhanger.

 

It works for a comic book format and even a TV show that is honest about using comic book logic (Gotham, Arrow), but for a show that is trying to pass itself off as serious drama it doesn't work.  As someone in the episode thread pointed out the Terminus cliffhanger worked great because it was the end of the scene and we were with the characters in that we knew what they knew.  This was a massive fail because the characters know what happened and we don't and there was no reason for it to be like that except for cheap shock value, plus it turned one of the heartbreaking moments in the comics into a stupid guessing game:  "Who's dead!  Press 1 for Glenn, 2 for Daryl, 3 for Abe, para espanol marque el numero nueve."  

 

If the cast does know who got smacked and Lauren is just saying they don't in order to try to avoid being pestered about it for the next six months that's understandable (I blame Gimple for setting up that situation in the first place). If not, it would be royally rotten of him to leave an actor's job hanging like that.

Edited April 4, 2016 by GreyBunny

[shanndee]

Let me preface this by saying, I like Chris Hardwick overall as a host.  And I understand his fanboy-ish enthusiasm for this show, and horror/zombie genres. 

However, Chris I think was trying to do damage control to TWD and was basically getting riled up with some of the reactions the fans were sending his way - saying that people's opinions of the show's "bad writing" was BS, that the angry/disappointed fans need to suck it up essentially because that's how cliffhangers work, etc.  He was pretty defensive of the show and this episode. (He wasn't conversing with people on his video, just reading FB comments, I believe), so take it as you will - he was supporting his fave show while seriously limiting input from the other side, i.e. the angry fans giving their reasoning WHY they didn't like it, or HOW they thought it could have been better.

Thank you! I like Hardwick as a host as well, and I understand that he is on the company payroll and damage control is part of the job. However, dismissing valid criticism out of hand without addressing the issues is another matter. I hope the footage is still available to view when I finish work...

 

Thanks again! 

[peach]

For those interested: Chris Hardwick's Walking Dead Facebook page has a post of him doing an "impromptu chat" via the interwebs and his compewtor after last night's TTD.  He seems to be adamantly defending the season cliffhanger.

 

Well, that is is his job.  He's paid to promote the show, not be a neutral party.  Yes, he really is a fan, but he's also an employee.

[rab01]

I feel like Hardwick did his job last night. He brought up the fan outrage over the cliffhanger and asked the creators about it. That he prefaced the question with some remarks defending cliffhangers is perfectly fine - whether he honestly believes it, is paid to say it, or whatever. He doesn't need to agree with me, he just needs to raise the issue on-air.

[kj4ever]

I didn't watch last night as I had to get up at 3 am for work and was already pissed off.  Kirkman usually just riles me up more so I waited until today to watch.

 

Just some observations....Kirkman seemed like he really, really wanted to point out the Gimple wrote that episode...lol  Usually Kirkman is the most awkward but I definitely got the feeling that Gimple is like "Shit I fucked up".  I mean having #firegimple trending on Twitter while they are doing a live show....Chris would have been my hero if he would have brought that up.

 

It was all bullshit, every last word.  The whole show was like adding insult to injury.

[Guest]

Just got around to watching this whole episode.  Like others, I just couldn't take it last night.

 

I think they had to be expecting a "negative" reaction but I think they were expecting something along the lines of viewers thinking it was evil of the show to have such an awesome episode and enraged over having to wait until next season to find out who was killed. 

 

The reaction seemed to tilt heavily towards anger that they ruined an iconic moment and annoyance at being forced to speculate over who got killed for the summer because it was the least interesting thing to speculate about. 

 

It would be interesting to know how much nuance they are able to glean from audience / social media reaction while TTD is airing live and what is disseminated to Hardwick and guests during the breaks.  They certainly seemed to get that the reaction was more along the lines of this episode sucked some time during the commercial breaks since Gimple transitioned to "if people are jammed up about this cliffhanger, we have to do an episode that justifies it to you.  We have to do something so great and so intense that you're like ok fair play.  That's the challenge we have and we're going to do it and deliver something fantastic."

 

I suspect that TTD staff don't share too much during the show to avoid unnerving the guests (even TWD show runners) but I think they have contingency plans and if reaction to the episode is going sideways.   Everything post-technical difficulties with Skype was damage control.  I suspect that Gimple, Hardwick, and Kirkman got a quick rundown around those commercial breaks.

[Skyfall]

Greg the teacher was a better guest than 90 percent of the celebrity guests. His observations were smart and on the money. I hope he gets invited back to be a guest again next season.

 

And, I'm also going to be superficial and comment on how lovely Christian looked. And I LIKE Josh without that horrid aw'shucks accent.

I hope they bring on more everyday fans who live and breathe TWD and lay off the celebrates not involved with the show.

[Skyfall]

I would start watching TD again if Michael Rooker became a permanent cohost.  

 

I'm disappointed and disenchanted with the show and have been all season.  The second half was a definite improvement over the first half but this damn cliffhanger bullshit is just, well, bullshit.  And the only way I see a deflating of ego for Gimple and Kirkman is if they have a ratings dip next season.  If that happened I would love to see Gimple and Kirkman on TD trying to spin a tale around that one.

This season saw a ratings dip.

[Pete Martell]

I mean having #firegimple trending on Twitter while they are doing a live show....Chris would have been my hero if he would have brought that up.

 

That's too much of a slippery slope to me. I remember all the personal hatred thrown at the showrunners after Beth was killed. I don't think it should be acknowledged because if empowers those who end up going too far. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Hope fans call out Gimple on his BS at SDCC in July.

[RustbeltWriter]

Kirkman has no idea how lucky he is and his appearances on The Talking Dead reinforce that opinion every time I see him. He came up with a brilliant idea when he created The Walking Dead and he deserves every bit of the success he's gotten from the comics. However, he should pull back from the show. What started out as gripping stories with well paced drama has devolved into the comics oriented "events" like the appearances of villains like Negan and near constant speculation about who will die next. This isn't the way you approach a drama on TV and I've noticed more and more of it since he took a larger hand in the show. Watching him sit on that couch and spout nonsense about losing eyes as cool rather than those actions having a thematic purpose had me shaking my head.

[Nashville]

I find this difficult to believe. They must have immediately filmed the whole death scene. If not, Lauren must have meant that most of the cast don't know. The actor who was let go must know. Based on the interviews with previous actors whose characters were killed, they are always told one or two episodes in advance.

 

...or they filmed individual death scenes with each actor on his/her knees, and the actors have no idea which ending Production will eventually use....

Edited April 5, 2016 by Nashville

[lulee]

Nicotero to the Hollywood Reporter about Negan's victim:

 

"We have not filmed it yet and I don't know if the person knows yet or not."

 

So that sort of answers that, but they start filming next month, and if news is handled like the back half of Season 6, even those of us attempting to stay unspoiled will know before long.

[callmebetty]

Do they even know who they want to kill off? Is that why it wasn't filmed already? I think the further cop-out will be if it's Aaron or Rosita. Not that I don't like the characters but they don't pack the emotional punch that a Glenn or Daryl do.

I wish it was Daryl, just to see the apeshit way people would react. But for me if it is Daryl, it certainly won't have the same impact in six months as it would have two days ago.

Edited April 5, 2016 by callmebetty

[jsbt]

Kirkman has no idea how lucky he is and his appearances on The Talking Dead reinforce that opinion every time I see him. He came up with a brilliant idea when he created The Walking Dead and he deserves every bit of the success he's gotten from the comics. However, he should pull back from the show. What started out as gripping stories with well paced drama has devolved into the comics oriented "events" like the appearances of villains like Negan and near constant speculation about who will die next. This isn't the way you approach a drama on TV and I've noticed more and more of it since he took a larger hand in the show. Watching him sit on that couch and spout nonsense about losing eyes as cool rather than those actions having a thematic purpose had me shaking my head.

 

I agree. And I think the show, particularly Gimple's show, has done its best to mitigate his shit and make it grounded into something more relatable. That doesn't necessarily mean they should've ended on a cliffhanger.

 

I understood the impulse for why they did it - classic TV cliffhanger - and because I find the original storyline so despicable I have no real agita or anger about what they did, but I also still think it was likely a creative mistake to wait. I think they would've had a lot more ammunition for that choice if they hadn't already faked Glenn out two or three times in the last two years, including the totally unnecessary and tedious tease in 6A. They've gotten very skilled at teasing pulling the trigger, I can understand why people just wanted to pull the band-aid off. I kind of wanted that myself. I don't think it is some massive betrayal of narrative or pacing, I think the Dead Glenn?? Part II soap opera of 6A, or the haphazard Jessie arc and conclusion, or the predictable and perhaps ultimately pointless Beth v. Hospital saga were much more faulty. But I do think it was probably the wrong time to be coy.

 

The show plays coy a lot and experiments with format and style, sometimes in good ways (some of the recent openings/montages) and other times poorly (Tyreese's dying vision quest!). It protracts stuff because it knows it can get away with it. But there are times when it can do that and times when it can't. I think at this point people were at their limit with that sort of long way around. It doesn't offend or outrage me, but I do think it was a miscalculation.

 

I definitely don't want anyone fired, nor do I think they will be. I think Scott Gimple is what keeps this show from devolving entirely into funnybook fan service scored to the music of Linkin Park or Staind, and I say that knowing some of these poor choices were his own. No showrunner is perfect.

Edited April 5, 2016 by jsbt

[indeed]

I just hate when Gimple trots out the "audience feels what the characters feel" excuse for the reasoning behind his 'wait for the reveal' moments. Team CDB didn't have to wait for weeks and watch someone make cheese before finding out Glenn's fate. The first part of Season 6 only took, what, two days? And everybody in that lineup is more than well aware who's getting the bat. They don't have to wait until October to find out. So retire that excuse already, would ya?

[Ellaria]

Team CDB didn't have to wait for weeks and watch someone make cheese before finding out Glenn's fate.

 

This sentence made me laugh out loud. Overall, a great post, indeed.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I understand that TTD can’t be expected to bash the show it’s dedicated to promoting. I know I can’t expect Gimple to sit back and apologize for making a stinker. But, I wish they could acknowledge the overwhelmingly negative response the cliffhanger has gotten with a response more intelligent than wait six months and you’ll understand how genius it is. I wish there hadn’t been the slavish insistence that this was the BEST episode ever produced. I’m very involved in this fandom (as many of us here are) and from what I’ve seen on this site, others, and particularly reddit is this is one of the least well-executed episodes in the history of the series. It's not just Comic Book Guy assholes and trolls saying TWD sucks dick, either. These are well-reasoned, intelligent responses. I think it’s bullshit that they had “technical difficulties” preventing them from answering live questions. I’m not sure what the answer is because, again, they can’t be expected to bash the show. But extolling it’s virtues SO HARD seems dishonest.

Edited April 5, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[Pete Martell]

Kirkman has no idea how lucky he is and his appearances on The Talking Dead reinforce that opinion every time I see him. He came up with a brilliant idea when he created The Walking Dead and he deserves every bit of the success he's gotten from the comics. However, he should pull back from the show. What started out as gripping stories with well paced drama has devolved into the comics oriented "events" like the appearances of villains like Negan and near constant speculation about who will die next. This isn't the way you approach a drama on TV and I've noticed more and more of it since he took a larger hand in the show. Watching him sit on that couch and spout nonsense about losing eyes as cool rather than those actions having a thematic purpose had me shaking my head.

 

I think it's always a mixture with Kirkman. I imagine he must feel validated because a lot of the criticisms of the first three seasons, deserved or undeserved (I think the criticism of the farm arc was off but I totally agree with how poorly most of Woodbury and the Governor and Andrea were handled). He and Gimple seemed to work out something and I think it's worked more often than not. I think some of the comics material adapted to the screen worked out very well (especially in season 4 and early season 5). He also seems to be fine with Daryl eclipsing any of his characters and the reality that to many fans and to the public at large, Daryl is the Walking Dead. Many in his shoes would resent the hell out of that and work to undercut it. 

 

What bothers me with Kirkman is if he insists on the set pieces like anything Jessie, Rick vs. Pete, and Jessie's death. This story took up way too much of Alexandria's establishing episodes and meant what was left was an underexplored shell they mostly burnt through in the first half of season 6. I think he is also the one who is frequently pushing a narrative that Rick is as bad as (the Governor, Negan, Gareth, Pete - whoever) when that isn't needed. Rick can still be flawed without needing to go to those extremes. "Two sides of the same coin" isn't really THAT interesting. And when they did set up a believable narrative of Rick going to extremes this season, they mostly brushed it aside in favor of Rick taking stupid pills and saying everything would be fine and dandy. 

 

I do think that the comics had the right idea about how to show Negan's kill (immediately after, no cliffhanger), and I imagine he isn't the one responsible for the fakeouts that have been a big drain on the show in the last few seasons. 

[Sighed I]

I finally rewatched TTD last night (I needed time before I could rewatch the finale and I needed to see it before watching this again in order to maintain my perspective) and for once Robert Kirkman didn't irritate the shit out of me. I've often found him smug and more than a little arrogant in previous appearances, and he is the absolute wrong choice to have on the couch with a major character who's just been killed off. I don't know if he's trying to lighten the mood or what, but his attempts at humor come off as really insensitive when the actor who just lost his/her job is sitting right there next to him.

 

So I was pleasantly surprised by his thoughtfulness and restraint, even if, as Pete Martell noted above, I find his insistence that Rick is thisclose to being the Governor, Negan and every other bad guy who's made an appearance way off base and frankly annoying. I also didn't buy his spin spin spin justifying the cliffhanger, and to be honest, I'm not convinced he totally bought into it himself.

 

Overall, it was pretty subdued and low energy for a post finale episode, and I'm sure the backlash has everything to do with it. The "technical difficulties" and mostly lame, superficial fan questions, not to mention the studio audience seemed much quieter and less enthusiastic than I've come to expect, suggests this was neither easy nor comfortable for Chris and the guests, particularly Kirkman and Gimple.

 

I did really enjoy the "Who's Judith's going to grow up to be most like?" banter, especially Chris' "I think she's going to be just like Shane" (that joke never gets old for me) only to be topped by Kirkman, "Who said she's going to grow up?" That cracked me up. I also read the "You better call me Mr. Kirkman" to JDM as entirely a joke.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Sighed I

[Eyes High]

He also seems to be fine with Daryl eclipsing any of his characters and the reality that to many fans and to the public at large, Daryl is the Walking Dead. Many in his shoes would resent the hell out of that and work to undercut it. 

 

I would be bitter as hell if the most popular character in an adaptation of my work was an adaptation-only character, so I have to give Robert Kirkman his props. 

[HighMaintenance]

I did really enjoy the "Who's Judith's going to grow up to be most like?" banter, especially Chris' "I think she's going to be just like Shane" (that joke never gets old for me) only to be topped by Kirkman, "Who said she's going to grow up?" That cracked me up. I also read the "You better call me Mr. Kirkman" to JDM as entirely a joke.

Regardless of the funny line, Kirkman will always be "couch-dick" to me.

[Sighed I]

Regardless of the funny line, Kirkman will always be "couch-dick" to me.

LOL! Fair enough.

 

I gotta say, Porch Dick and all the variants it spawned was one of Chris Hardwick's funniest quips on the show. Yes, the dude is a kind of a shill for AMC (and pretty much has to be). And I, too, miss the earlier days when there was more discussion, analysis and speculation and fewer free advertisements and pointless polls and Tweets (god I hate Twitter). But I firmly believe he's just as much a fan as we are and has his moments where his comments are on point and laugh out loud funny.

[SimoneS]

I think that Hardwick is a a great host and has the perfect public persona for hosting TD despite my occasional criticism. I don't think and cannot think of anyone could do a better job. Like Sighed I said, Hardwick is a genuine fan. He loves the genre and movies/tv as well. Of course, he isn't tough on the show, he wants to keep a job that he obviously loves. 

 

So I was pleasantly surprised by his thoughtfulness and restraint, even if, as Pete Martell noted above, I find his insistence that Rick is thisclose to being the Governor, Negan and every other bad guy who's made an appearance way off base and frankly annoying. I also didn't buy his spin spin spin justifying the cliffhanger, and to be honest, I'm not convinced he totally bought into it himself.

 

Thing is, I don't believe for a second Kirkman actually believes that Rick is thisclose to the villains that he creates. I think he just does this to stoke up fans and keep the interest going. 

 

Overall TWD has not had many cliffhangers. It is hard to say who is responsible for the season 6 finale one. I do think that using this plot device twice in one season lacks creativity, but it gives me hope that Glenn isn't dead as I want to believe they won't do it with the same character twice so I'll take it.

Edited April 10, 2016 by SimoneS

[Pete Martell]

I had this episode saved on my DVR, as originally I'd just skimmed it -  I'm glad I went back and watched the whole thing. I actually thought Hardwick addressed the criticism as well as a host could, especially since Scott Gimple went from 0 to 60 on the defensiveness scale when asked. He did a bit too much defending, perhaps, but at least it was broached. 

Gimple seemed like his normal self for most of the show, but he was clearly tense throughout, and then came unspooled at the end. I couldn't help remembering how awkward he was early on in his TD appearances, then he loosened up and had fun, and now he's clearly waiting for the other shoe to drop. In some weird way he's done his own Rick Grimes - the more facial hair, the more feral he seems. 

That was the most "normal" appearance I can remember from Kirkman. Other than all that stuff about Negan = Rick (I've gone on enough about that), he didn't say anything I hated, and he seemed much less douchey than in the past. 

Norman also seemed a bit looser than usual. I loved how completely embarrassed he was - real embarrassed, not tee hee talk show embarrassed - at Hardwick's "vibrator" comment (I was as surprised as he was - usually they wink wink at the crudity, but I guess with all the finale tension he just said "fuck it"...or "screw it" in AMC-land). I also laughed at how Hardwick rarely takes a firm hand with the guests (no jokes please), but he shut Kirkman down immediately when Kirkman was going to try to make something out of Norman having his own show. Clearly he knows he can't afford to let anything get in the way of AMC's product placement. 

I've been surprised at how much I've come to enjoy the banter between Michael Cudlitz and Josh McDermitt in the interview and behind the scenes bits this season. Somehow they ended up having more chemistry than Abraham's ever had with Rosita or Sasha. 

JDM was very professional and I'm glad he talked about how hard the cast worked, especially since the media ignored it, as always.

Staged or used for damage control or not, the Skype questions also annoyed me far less this season (other than that embarrassing woman going on about Daryl and a shower) than in previous finales. 

All in all I actually thought it was one of the better TD episodes of the last few seasons. 

And Hardwick needs to wear a waistcoat more often... 

[walnutqueen]

Kirkman was on @midnight the other day and there was a fair amount of banter about cliffhangers, which he took in stride.  At the end of the show, when one contestant is usually eliminated & the other 2 vie for the win, Chris just said that someone is eliminated - but you won't find out for another 6 fuckin' months - and the screen went to black!!!   :-)

[patty1h]

Sorry if this came up already - I didn't look back through the previous 35 pages.  I'm watching old episode of Married With Children when I spot Chris Hardwick!  It's the one called "Spring Break" and he plays a reporter who interviews Kelly and her girlfriends while they party in Florida.  

He looks about the same except he has a typical 90's haircut.