S19.E14: Week 11: The Finale

[Morgan of Hed]

Allison is easily in the top 5 females throughout all seasons of SYTYCD USA, if not the best depending on your personal preferences. She was just a poor fit for the show. If they bring her back she's going to have to spend some time figuring out the show.

tWitch is probably the most popular dancer SYTYCD has produced, if not technically the most versatile. He's just a charismatic, likeable guy. Watching them dance together last night briefly was a lot of fun for me as a long-time fan.

[DollEyes]

 YES!  Congrats to Alfonso & Witney! Their victory was hard fought and richly deserved. I haven't been this happy that a man's won the show since J.R. Martinez won with Karina Smirnoff.

[howmanywords]

I felt that way during Alfonso and Witney's freestyle yesterday. I was really looking forward to the tap dance portion and seeing both of them dance that together, so it was kind of annoying when the audience wouldn't shut up and let his tapping sounds make a more powerful impact. Imagine how spine-tingling it could have been if they'd been dead silent while he and Witney danced with no music behind them, just the rhythmic sounds of the tapping on display. They could have broken back into applause once the music kicked back in and they went back to their standard dancing. Alas, the audience just can't shut up sometimes. Not even Tom can reel them in when they're being really obnoxious.

I too didnt like the audience hooting and hollering during the tap solo (that spotlight on him with just the tapping would have been perfection), but I'll be honest, I think if I was sitting there in that ballroom with all that adrenaline and between the apache dance and then the tap dancing I think I might have found myself spazzing a little hee. That was like with The Carlton, Carrie-Ann said in her blog that week that in all her years there she never heard the audience react like that. Someone that attended that show wrote in a review the next day it was even louder in the ballroom and they just wouldnt shut up even when the judges were trying to start talking.

[OnceSane]

Yay for Alfonso! And yay for Witney! The latter is something I never thought I'd say after seeing her on SYTYCD.

[tessaforever]

I don't even mind the 3 hours if I didn't have to see Lolo Jones dance...didn't it appear as if she were injured? There was a shot of her in the balcony tapping the railing to "clap" and one arm was in a sling. The sour look was still there, naturally.

Oh, Val. He could have won with Zendaya if her freestyle had been better...no way he could have won with Elizabeth, so I hope he's not looking at that as a missed opportunity. I don't think Danica could have won either, but probably placed higher. He's a great dancer and choreographer, even if I like him less after the showmance. I think his turn will come.

Yay to Alfonso and Witney! I knew Alfonso was a likable, entertaining guy, but who knew that Witney was sharp and funny? That's been the biggest revelation. The right contestant won.

[spanana]

So happy for Alfonso and Witney!  It felt like the right ending to me and I even predicted the entire finale order! Go me!  It's what I wanted from the first day of the season.  Interestingly, Alfonso thought Sadie was going to win.  Or so he claims.

 

The Val thing.  I think Val is just trying to figure out what he needs to do to get that dang mirrorball and is getting dejected in the process.  It's like I alternately feel for the guy and want to slap the idiot because I don't think he entirely gets it.  What I think Val needs to do is just relax and take a season as it comes instead of trying to design his way to a mirrorball before he even meets his partner.  Val may have had a genuine chance with Janel if they didn't start the season pissing everyone off with the over the top relationship stuff.  So by the time she finally hit her stride and showed actual improvement, it was too late.  Because by then I think more of the general audience was already on Alfonso and Sadie's side.  It's a personality contest as much as it is a dance contest.

 

I'd also challenge Val to look at why his season with Zendaya is arguably his most successful.  As somebody else said, the partnerships that usually get 1st and 2nd place are rarely coming from a place of showmance or over the top sexy.  It's usually the partnerships and connections that come across the most geninue.  You can argue that Sadie didn't improve much across the season and Janel was better, but I think the audience responded to Sadie/Mark's genuine partnership where a portion of the audience may have been eyerolling at Janel/Val's antics (especially early on).  The Zendaya partnership worked for Val because I think it caught him completely off guard and he couldn't resort to his same bag of tricks with her.  As a result, it felt more honest. In some ways I kind of like having the younger contestants, though it has to be right younger contestants.  I had no use for Cody.

 

But anyway, considering Tom said straight up on Monday that Bethany and Janel were the B2 I figured Janel was pretty much destined for third at that point.  Because Janel was at the top of the leaderboard for the semi finals, so in order for her to be in the B2 it means that both Alfonso and Sadie scored more votes than she did.  And I'd argue that Janel had a better night in the semis than the finals.

Edited November 26, 2014 by spanana

[StayClassySD]

What bag of tricks? Prior to Zendaya there was only Kelly whom he had a reported showmance with. He didn't last long with Elisabetta and Sherri Shephard was married. So how is this showmance angle the norm for him? I don't quite understand where this claim comes from.

[spanana]

What bag of tricks? Prior to Zendaya there was only Kelly whom he had a reported showmance with. He didn't last long with Elisabetta and Sherri Shephard was married. So how is this showmance angle the norm for him? I don't quite understand where this claim comes from.

 

I think a lot of people discount Val's first two seasons because he wasn't on long enough to make an impression period.  If you listen to Val's interviews post S16 or so, he claims that he thought he finally found his role on the show during S15 with Kelly.  That he was there to be the over the top sex on a stick guy.  I don't necessarily think he meant he planned to have showmances with every one of his partners from there on out because that of course depends on the partner and the situation, but he had a role that he felt he was expected to play.  By his own admission he was pissed when he found out he was being paired with an underage Disney star because it very much went against what he thought his role on the show was at that point.  He wanted Kellie Pickler as his partner.  So I get your point, but I do think there was a significant change in Val's psyche towards the show during those two seasons and he has admitted as such.  He's even said some things along the lines of that he has a hard time going back and watching footage of himself in S15 because he doesn't feel he was being genuine.

Edited November 26, 2014 by spanana

[kayma]

What I think Val needs to do is just relax and take a season as it comes instead of trying to design his way to a mirrorball before he even meets his partner.

I agree with this but feel for him because this is exactly what I'd do, too. I'd be so out of my element letting things just happen that I don't know if I could. Since he seems like such a planner and worrier, I hope he can take a step back and let things flow more next time. I really like Val with all of his intensity and seriousness on this lighthearted show, so I hope he isn't too dejected and can have another great season next year. I think he really made Janel more than any of the other pros could have and thought he got more improvement out of her than any of the other stars.

[CruiseDiva]

Well... three hours was two hours too long. When I realized it wouldn't be over until 11pm my time I started folding laundry and zoned out until the last hour.

 

An encore of Bethany's freestyle? Seriously, show. Was that to appease Golden Boy for being eliminated?

 

I don't have any trouble understanding Sadie because I'm accustomed to Louisiana accents. And I just adored her, but was so happy that Alfonso won the Mirrorball trophy.

[iMonrey]

I wonder why it took Alfonso 10 years to get on this show. Is it because he couldn't fit it into his schedule until now? Because I don't think he's been super busy for the past 10 years. Or is it because they didn't want to cast him specifically because he's pretty much a professional dancer already?

 

Yes, he deserved to win, based on the fact that he was the best dancer out there (arguably, along with Janel,) but I'm not sure how I feel about it, because when you cast someone who already has that much dance experience, it's kind of a no-brainer that they're going to be the best dancer. And he never really improved, because he didn't need to. Instead he started to really fall apart at the end because of all his injuries, so the last few dances he did weren't really win-worthy IMO.

 

I'm not sorry that Janel and Val came in third, and maybe the show will learn its lesson and back the hell off the Val-mance next time around, because obviously that didn't work no matter how hard they pushed it.

 

For me, the celeb who best embodied what I wish for this show was Sadie, who came in with zero dance experience and really held her own. I admit I was a bit turned off by the judges fawning all over her and praising her for being "true to herself" because - WTF does that even mean? But I still thought she was cute as a button and did extremely well for someone who's never even danced at school. 

[kitcloudkicker]

An encore of Bethany's freestyle? Seriously, show. Was that to appease Golden Boy for being eliminated?

 

Or they ran the encore voting off of twitter, where she has a large and motivated fanbase, who was upset that she got eliminated and who's more likely to tweet than vote? Hmmm...which makes more sense? 

 

I like the giving of the encore to the fourth place, actually. I liked when it worked out for James as well and I didn't even like James. 

[Mreid]

Yaay Alfonso the best dancer of the season won and Im thrilled!  Im surprised that Sadie beat Janel though was not expecting that at all. 

[spanana]

 

And he never really improved, because he didn't need to. Instead he started to really fall apart at the end because of all his injuries, so the last few dances he did weren't really win-worthy IMO.

 

I'd disagree with that greatly.  Yes, Alfonso wasn't fantastic in the semis because of the injuries.  But I very much think his dances in the finals were win worthy.  I thought his jive with additional content was even better the second time around and his freestyle was also fantastic.  I thought his last fusion dance was great too considering he only had 24 hours to prepare.  I think Alfonso had the strongest night of the four in the finals (partly because Alfonso got a better first round dance assigned to him than Janel did).  Plus his posture did improve over the season, likely because of his back.

 

I'm also fine with the 4th placers winning the encore.  The others have enough dancing to do that they don't really need any additional stress and it serves as a nice parting gift for the person eliminated.  I also totally get why it has happened with both James and Bethany.  Both have hard hardcore fanbases on social media and once their person is voted out, they are pissed off and have no voting to do.  So they focus on trending for the encore.  Fans of Alfonso, Sadie and Janel should have been busy voting and not tweeting meaningless hashtags.

[Serendi]

I actually liked James's freestyle a *lot* so I tweeted it last season, so it's not necessarily just the social media obsessives (I have a Twitter account reserved just for DWTS voting, haven't otherwise posted on Twitter for over a year).

Anywho. Alfonso won, so I'm happy. And to my surprise, I got myself a ticket to the DWTS tour - I rarely go to shows. Wheeee!!!

[emma675]

I'm afraid to ask, but what is "The Fam"?

[Ann Mack]

I'd disagree with that greatly.  Yes, Alfonso wasn't fantastic in the semis because of the injuries.  But I very much think his dances in the finals were win worthy.  I thought his jive with additional content was even better the second time around and his freestyle was also fantastic.  I thought his last fusion dance was great too considering he only had 24 hours to prepare.  I think Alfonso had the strongest night of the four in the finals (partly because Alfonso got a better first round dance assigned to him than Janel did).  Plus his posture did improve over the season, likely because of his back.

 

I'm also fine with the 4th placers winning the encore.  The others have enough dancing to do that they don't really need any additional stress and it serves as a nice parting gift for the person eliminated.  I also totally get why it has happened with both James and Bethany.  Both have hard hardcore fanbases on social media and once their person is voted out, they are pissed off and have no voting to do.  So they focus on trending for the encore.  Fans of Alfonso, Sadie and Janel should have been busy voting and not tweeting meaningless hashtags.

 

I for one was glad that Alfonso & Witney fans didn't spend time tweeting about an encore for them. I think with his injuries adding an additional routine would have been counterproductive and may have aggravated his injuries even further. But that's just me because I started to tweet and thought no his health and still having a winning chance far outweighs getting to do that awesome routine again, I'll just catch it on YouTube. But that was just my personal take on it. So glad he and Witney won they really did an amazing job ALL season long (injuries and all)! 

[majormama]

The music for Janel's fusion was terrible for a foxtrot, and equally terrible for a paso. I'm impressed they were even able to dance to it.

 

Kind of ironic that the back up dancers to a song about loving your full figure were all tiny, skinny bits of nothing. 

 

I'm not usually one to be catty about women's appearance, but what was up with CAI's and JH's hair? It looked like Len had set off an explosion and blown them both away from him.

[Bronzedog]

When this show started, I thought the purpose was for celebrities who couldn't dance and watch them improve over the course of the season. Then it became bring mostly people who can't dance and sprinkle in a couple of people like Mario Lopez who obviously have years of dancing experience. Now you pretty much know from the beginning who going to win. I've always liked Alfonso but was there ever really a question that he wouldn't win? He's a dancer!

[Sunhusky]

I would tend to disagree with you Bronzedog. The best dancer doesn't always win. Alfonso wasn't trained at all in ballroom but what he had going for him, in my opinion, was the abiity to sell a dance to the audience. That's something that not even the best dancers always have, tho', yes, I'll credit this to his tim on stage learning to sell his tap dancing to a broadway audience. Corbin is the first name that pops into my mind. A phenomenal dancer who didn't win. We're all turned off by bad cancing after the novelty wears off, so the show has to give the public what it wants, some good dancing, personable contestants, and a journey. Your mileage may and probably will vary, of course, but that's how I see it.

[truthaboutluv]

The music for Janel's fusion was terrible for a foxtrot, and equally terrible for a paso. I'm impressed they were even able to dance to it.

 

 

I thought all the music to all the fusion dances was awful - what in the hell was that mess they gave Witney and Alfonso and Mark and Sadie. And I think the music played a part in the choreography of the dances which, save for Janel and Val's were kind of a mess to be honest. Alfonso did well enough with what Witney gave him but I saw almost no Argentine Tango in that fusion and it was pretty much all Cha Cha. And Sadie - it's like she regressed finale night rather than looking more polished as many contestants have in the past.

 

The quickstep parts were decent but the samba parts were a big ol' mess and what was going on with her arms during some of the samba parts? Again I really did like Janel and Val's but I had to mute the god-awful song to be able to really appreciate it but I definitely saw elements of the foxtrot and paso interwoven together well. For as much crap as he gets, I missed seeing a fusion from Derek because the ones he did with both Amber and Amy last season were on point. 

[KerleyQ]

Because it's not about the pros, it's supposed to be about the celebs.  That is most likely an illusion since there are some pros more popular than others but I like that illusion.  I appreciate when pros attempt to maintain that illusion.

I don't like the cliquey feeling that has developed over the past few seasons when pros (and sometimes their partners) start campaigining for their pro-friends' partnerships based on friendship.  It makes it about them.

 

 

I think the show is really equally about the stars and the pros these days, and I think that's OK,   It's a natural by-product of having a relatively stable rotation of the same group of pros (with some rotating in and out here and there).   In some cases, the pros are more well known than the stars (especially to long time viewers).  And the pros get a trophy too, winning is for both of them, and it's just as much a testament to the pro's choreography, teaching skills, and personality as it is to the star's dancing and likability.  Look how much the show points out how many times Derek has won, for example.  It matters.  These are professional, competitive dancers, and they want to win.  I have no problem with that. 

 

I was thrilled Alfonso won.  He was just so good all season, and he could always make you smile.  He and Witney were just so damn fun and drama-free.  And I love their initial reaction - just a quiet hug of relief and happiness.  

[gik910]

One thing I am super impressed with this season is how much more likable Witney is!  I'm also a SYTYCD fan, and I hated her on her season of that show- that girl could find a camera no matter where she was.  Her partnership with Alphonso was joyful and she is tuning into a fantastic choreographer.  

 

While I too miss DanceCenter- I wish we got a longer look at the dress rehearsals. Those are hilarious and I think Tom Bergeron is even better there than on live tv (which is saying something, because that man is a national treasure.)

 

A few other random comments-

Does anyone else get shades of Jordan Knight from the Jonas Brother? 

I admit I am a pretty big Twitch fan-girl. but even here with everything going on, he is just a magnetic performer. Jonathan looked like he had a blast doing that performance.

The Fresh Prince things was awesome.

I wish Randy Coutor had gone further.

Finally, I loved how relaxed everyone looked- it seemed like they all enjoyed themselves.

[Irlandesa]

An encore of Bethany's freestyle? Seriously, show. Was that to appease Golden Boy for being eliminated?

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the voting for the "winner" take place at the same time the voting/tweeting for the "encore" takes place?  That may be why the eliminated contestant has won the encore in recent seasons.  Fans of the top 3 are voting for the winner while the die hard fan bases of the eliminated contestants are working hard to get them the encore.

[Alapaki]

I believe what I'll miss about this season is watching Sharna try to elbow herself on camera in the background in the Celebriquarium.

[skittl3862]

The music for Janel's fusion was terrible for a foxtrot, and equally terrible for a paso. I'm impressed they were even able to dance to it.

 

I was thinking how hard the first full minute was for them- there was almost nothing in the music to choreograph to. I once joked with a friend that if I were on the show, I would want to do my Favorite Year dance to Revolution #9 by the Beatles to fuck with everyone. That's what this song choice reminded me of.

[kitcloudkicker]

Huh, I really liked Janel's fusion - better than her Monday dances actually, and that included the music. I liked the drama of it. 

[howmanywords]

Does Alfonso have that much dance experience though?  I realize he was on Broadway tap dancing as a child, and he obviously never forgot how to tap but its not like he spent years learning ballroom or going to school to learn various dances.  I could see why he would be considered a ringer for the stuff he did on Broadway and the Michael Jackson commercial, but yeah a dancer? I wouldnt call him a professional dancer at all. IIRC Corbin was considered dancer since he spent years studying various forms. Hell even Lea this season is more of what you would call a "dancer" considering she was studying professionally by the time she was a teen and went to several ballet schools.

[SophiaPehawkins]

I'm afraid to ask, but what is "The Fam"?

 

The Fam is what Maks and Val call their inner circle. It includes Tony, now Zendaya, and some other friends they have IRL. They usually post all about it on Twitter and Instagram. They're basically stressing the importance of their "family and friends."

Edited November 27, 2014 by SophiaPehawkins

[anonymiss]

I wonder why it took Alfonso 10 years to get on this show. Is it because he couldn't fit it into his schedule until now? Because I don't think he's been super busy for the past 10 years. Or is it because they didn't want to cast him specifically because he's pretty much a professional dancer already?

This is what I wanted to know every time he repeated it.

[twizzwhizz11]

This is what I wanted to know every time he repeated it.

If it were the latter, I'm sure he wouldn't be able to really say anything. They asked him on GMA and he didn't name a specific reason there either. I'm glad he was finally able to though!

[anonymiss]

I wondered if maybe they couldn't come to an agreement until the show made budget cuts last season.

[Mocking Bird]

 

Sadie is adorable, with a lovely smile.

 

I have to agree with that.  I was so impressed with her--so sweet and I enjoyed her partnership with Mark, who normally aggravates me to no end.  On a shallow note, I did not enjoy watching her talk, as all I thought about was "why, oh why didn't her parents have that pronounced under bite fixed?".

[fishcakes]

I was finally able to watch the finale today, and three hours feels even longer when you're watching in the morning. Still it was worth it to watch Alfonso win. His and Witney's teary reaction was really touching and it was hilarious when after being bounced around on Keo and Tony's shoulders he said, "I'm getting tired."

 

 

Len's "I still have no idea who'll win" notwithstanding, it was obvious that the judges knew it was Alfonso based on their consolation speeches to Janel and Sadie and their giving everyone perfect scores so as not to upset the outcome. But I wonder if Mark knew or if he just picked up on it at some point during the show because after they danced their final dance and got a 40, he had a consistently angry, sour face for the rest of the night and he was crying up a storm by the time they got to the final elimination. Sadie is a sweet girl and by the standards of this show, which aren't entirely about dancing, she would have been a worthy winner, but Mark's sense of entitlement has been really off-putting this season. You'd think he'd have learned by now that being a stompy baby about scores and placement is not doing his star any favors.

 

Based on the last few weeks of audience shots, if I didn't know Alfonso was married, I'd think Joey Fatone was his plus one.

[truthaboutluv]

Sadie is a sweet girl and by the standards of this show, which aren't entirely about dancing, she would have been a worthy winner, but Mark's sense of entitlement has been really off-putting this season. You'd think he'd have learned by now that being a stompy baby about scores and placement is not doing his star any favors.

 

 

Yes, and in fairness, lest it be said I only commented on the Chmerkovskiy behavior, Anna T. who was in the audience on Tuesday, stated on Afterbuzz that Mark and Val were pissed after the results. And word around online is that Shirley, Mark's mom, made one or two passive aggressive comments on Facebook. And some of the media at the finale commented on Mark's being upset and apparently he missed some of the press line though the story was that he went to shower and then he did eventually come out. 

 

I honestly am baffled by this reaction. Again, going by a lot of comments I saw online,  I guess I was in the minority that never bought that Sadie was so underscored and picked on and frankly never thought she improved THAT much. She was a cute girl with a great personality who worked hard and had some fun dances but in no way was she this phenomenal dancer that Mark and some of her fans seemed to think she was. So I'm truly baffled at Mark not only being surprised they did not win but being pissed.

 

Like why...it's not like she lost to Tommy Chong. Alfonso was a wonderful dancer and this really looks bad on Mark who one would think would be happy for Witney, who was one of his students. Or maybe this is a case of the student has beaten the teacher and they're not happy. But again, I just don't see any reason Mark has to be pissed. Disappointed sure but pissed...no. Especially when frankly based on just dance ability, I thought Sadie should have been in fourth so they did well to finish second. 

Edited November 27, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Serendi]

 

I wonder if Mark knew or if he just picked up on it at some point during the show

 

There's a theory (and I'm pretty sure it was confirmed at least once) that the producers let the #2 person know ahead of time that they haven't won. 

[fishcakes]

So I'm truly baffled at Mark not only being surprised they did not win but being pissed.

 

Like why...it's not like she lost to Tommy Chong. Alfonso was a wonderful dancer and this really looks bad on Mark who one would think would be happy for Witney, who was one of his students.

 

I don't understand it either. The thing is, if Mark thinks that Sadie should have won over Alfonso, who is so clearly the better dancer, then he would forfeit the right to be angry over anyone beating Sadie, even Tommy. Hell, even Michael. Because if he thinks Sadie is the rightful winner then he has to admit that he thinks popularity is more important than the dancing. (Although in this particular case, it's moot and he's still wrong because in addition to being the better dancer, Alfonso is probably also more popular.) It's hard to believe Mark is so up his own butt that he thinks he and Sadie were the best dancers, but if he really does, he should take a season or three off.

[Zuleikha]

When this show started, I thought the purpose was for celebrities who couldn't dance and watch them improve over the course of the season. Then it became bring mostly people who can't dance and sprinkle in a couple of people like Mario Lopez who obviously have years of dancing experience.

 

The very first season had Trista Sutter, who had worked as a professional dancer as a Miami Heat dancer (not that it helped her any!). I didn't think Stacey Kiebler had pro dance experience, but plenty of other people did and she was the second season. Mario Lopez was season three. So the show has been casting contestants with dance training and pro dance experience literally from the beginning. Some of them do well, but a lot of them don't. Alfonso didn't just win because he was the best dancer. He also won because had a very TV-friendly personality and a magical partnership with Witney. 

[jennifer6973]

Not only that but the first season had Joey McIntyre who was in a boy band.

[spanana]

I really don't think Alfonso has any real dance training other than tap.  Even the Michael Jackson stuff, as Alfonso said repeatedly, he learned on his own by watching music videos on television.  I think it's more that he's just naturally talented and he has rhythm and coordination.  I get why people consider him a ringer and that's valid, but outside of tap I don't consider him trained.  And I'd argue there's a world of difference between tap and a lot of the stuff he was doing here.  I took tap for 13 years or so and I certainly wouldn't have a clue how to translate much of that into what they do on DWTS.  It gives him a leg up over people like Sadie and Bethany, but we've had far bigger ringers IMO.

 

As for DWTS, I just thought the producers never asked him until now.  I don't know why not considering they have always gone after television nostalgia types and Fresh Prince was always a popular show that the mainstream audience would now.  One of the things that I think helped Alfonso this season in the fan vote, besides just the fact he came across well, is he was one of the only people in the cast that the older at home audience probably recognized.   I would think Tommy and Alfonso probably had the main mainstream recognition.  Even if people didn't know Alfonso by name, all they had to do is take one look at him to associate him with Carlton.  So while he might not have had the hordes of tweeting fangirls that Bethany and Janel had, I think he had the more general at home audience in a field of somewhat unrecognizable celebrities.

 

But anyway, my favorite things about this season were Alfonso and honestly Witney.   I don't watch SYTYCD the season she was on so I never had the dislike that many did for her, but watching her this season has been a real delight.  She went from not really being on my radar to being perhaps my favorite female current pro.  I'm thrilled for her that she had such a breakout season in such a big way.  There is so much focus from fans on the Houghs and Chmerkovskiys and that's fine, but I feel like the female pros get lost in the mix a little bit of late.  Heck, it's the first time in a long time that there was neither a Hough nor a Chmerkovskiy in the F2.  

[HappyDancex2]

Alfonso is a dancetastic ringer compared the Randy Couture, Antonio Sabato, Michael Waltrips etc. of the world.  I'm ok with him winning because at least he's past his prime of that component...he was a child dancer and eventually life took over and he got heavier and out of shape.  That's a middle aged redemption arc that many people can relate to.  One can argue Lea had the same dance background but a little bit older and less out of shape weight wise....but for whatever reason did not manage to connect with the audience.  To me her facial expressions were trying too hard to be sexy cougarish and I never felt compelled to see her finish her personal arc.

 

I think when you bring on the younger Disney kids like Zendaya or Corbin it's that they have a dance background and they are young.  There isn't much to root for there...it's much like just rooting for someone else's kids which is fine and polite and a nice thing to do but this show is barely an amateur contest of pure non dancers anymore....do we have to add insult to injury by bringing on kids who dance?? 

 

And in the end it hurts the show more because I think less adults or big name stars/athletes are going to want to come on if pitted against kids.  I can easily see someone saying "Oh I can take Alfonso Ribeiro.  He's old and out of shape...I'll out dance him!"  A bigger named star will have a bigger ego.  Heck if they cast underage you can't even trash talk them...it would be like taunting a kid.  I hope the anniversary season casts well and picks an identity. 

 

If they are casting youth and twitter and all of that then so be it.  But don't bemoan well known stars (as CAI said she was disappointed when she saw the list and didn't know who most of the people were...).  Get an A lister and they will attract other A listers.

[spanana]

 

I think when you bring on the younger Disney kids like Zendaya or Corbin it's that they have a dance background and they are young.  There isn't much to root for there...it's much like just rooting for someone else's kids which is fine and polite and a nice thing to do but this show is barely an amateur contest of pure non dancers anymore....do we have to add insult to injury by bringing on kids who dance??

 

I've never totally understood painting every person who worked for Disney at one point with the same strokes.  Zendaya was 16 at the time.  To date she's still the only 16 year old we've ever had on the show.  Corbin was probably 24 at the time and not remotely a child.  He hasn't worked for Disney since whenever the last HSM movie came out.  He wasn't even a child when he made those movies.  Corbin was a maybe a couple of years younger than Amber Riley at most.    It's the same thing as Janel playing a high schooler despite the fact that she's 25/26.    

 

Beyond that this show was never a contest of pure non dancers.  We've have people with training and experience from the time the show began.  People who had done Broadway.  People with professional dance experience.  Hello Mario Lopez in S3.   It's a tale as old as time at this point.   He still lost to Emmit Smith, a non dancer, at the end of the day.

 

I'm also not sure why any celeb would be more intimidated to come on this show and compete against the "young kids" who can dance versus anybody else who can dance.  How many of those Disney people have come away with a win?  Right now the grand total is zero.  Zendaya, Corbin & Kyle all finished in 2nd place.  The only minor contestant who has come on the show and won is Shawn Johnson.   Only four contestants in 19 seasons have been minors.  The rest, adults.

 

But frankly, A list celebrities are never going to do this show and it has nothing to do with the young kids.  It had everything to do with how the show is perceived, in addition to not wanting to put oneself out there for that sort of judgement--both in terms of their skill and popularity with the audience.  Most big celebs are not going to take the risk to put themselves out there in that way.  Their reps would never let them.

Edited November 28, 2014 by spanana

[missysays]

Yes, and in fairness, lest it be said I only commented on the Chmerkovskiy behavior, Anna T. who was in the audience on Tuesday, stated on Afterbuzz that Mark and Val were pissed after the results. And word around online is that Shirley, Mark's mom, made one or two passive aggressive comments on Facebook. And some of the media at the finale commented on Mark's being upset and apparently he missed some of the press line though the story was that he went to shower and then he did eventually come out. 

 

I honestly am baffled by this reaction. Again, going by a lot of comments I saw online,  I guess I was in the minority that never bought that Sadie was so underscored and picked on and frankly never thought she improved THAT much. She was a cute girl with a great personality who worked hard and had some fun dances but in no way was she this phenomenal dancer that Mark and some of her fans seemed to think she was. So I'm truly baffled at Mark not only being surprised they did not win but being pissed.

 

Like why...it's not like she lost to Tommy Chong. Alfonso was a wonderful dancer and this really looks bad on Mark who one would think would be happy for Witney, who was one of his students. Or maybe this is a case of the student has beaten the teacher and they're not happy. But again, I just don't see any reason Mark has to be pissed. Disappointed sure but pissed...no. Especially when frankly based on just dance ability, I thought Sadie should have been in fourth so they did well to finish second. 

 

To me the being pissed or upset shows me one of two things... That the male pros are extremely competitive and also have egos (understandably so esp coming from a competitive ballroom world where strong male dancers are a scarce and prized commodity) in a way that maybe a female pro (while still competitive and having a strong confidence and sense of self) probably doesn't have as much of.

 

The other thing it sort of shows me is how much a bubble the DWTS pros and celebs must be in while they're in the middle of their season. I got a small inkling of this when I saw Sasha Farber earlier on in the season commenting on Afterbuzz that he thought Val and Janel were going to win. This was right in the middle of the strong backlash they were receiving on their showmance and before their stronger dances kicked in. The Afterbuzz hosts sort of reacted in surprise because they had clearly been viewing Janel's performances without the bias of working directly with them as well as being aware of all the social media backlash they were receiving. This showed me to some extent that while the pros and celebs are more active on social media these days during the season that they're still pretty insulated and focused on the task at hand and may not be fully aware of how they're coming across to the general audience. Hence then feeling completely devastated (as in Val's case) or pissed (as in Derek or Mark's case). Though I will say this Derek is very good at covering it up in public. In general while I've never been a big Derek fan this season I appreciated and saw why he's been the winner of so many MBT's. His choreography truly has the most polish, structure, and visual impact out of most of the other pro choreography but even within that he's good at tailoring each piece to his celeb's abilities. He also has this friendly yet light touch with his celebs- even when he's stressed or mad it's not quite as intense and he doesn't come across as blaming their celeb or judge the way say the Chmerkovskiy bros sometimes can come across. So as the celeb and as the audience you don't feel like he has all this pent up rage or frustration. This was true of him even in the early days of the show when he hadn't won any MBT's yet.

[Serendi]

Many of the bigger celebs who do the show are major fans and know exactly what they're getting into.

 

And given that a lot of celebs end up shooting themselves in the foot (Jaleel White, anyone?), it's not without risk. 

 

There was a clip a couple of years or so ago of Snooki on Wendy Williams' talk show saying she wouldn't do the show because it seemed to her you do it when your career is on the decline (this is from memory, not sure of exact words). She suddenly remembered Wendy had been on the show... it was hilarious. Snooki greatly improved her image by doing it; Wendy didn't. Ya never know. 

 

Plus it's a HUGE amount of hard physical and mental work. I can see why a lot of people wouldn't do it. It's decent money, but if you don't need the money, the exposure, and don't have three months to set aside, why do it? And the producers can screw you over. I've never understood why they were so negative with Gladys Freaking Knight of all people! 

Edited November 28, 2014 by Serendi

[missysays]

Have we noticed over the years that it's the really, truly *genuine* partnerships that seem to do well?  Think about Peta and Tommy.  And especially Witney and Alfonso.  No showmance.  No pretend-fights.  No drama.  I think that if Val really wants this, he should reflect on his partnership with Zendaya and how he handled that.  Janel was a beautiful dancer and really should have been in 2nd place or even a winner in some seasons past.  I think all of that kissy feely stuff turned a lot of people off and made them overlook the fact that she was talented.  Of course, that sappy freestyle dreck did them no favors either.

 

This all of it!!! I've actually really wondered all season long if they had just gone about their dances and packages normally without that coy back and forth bs if in the end they would have achieved that natural romantic chemistry all on their own (and the accompanying audience support) without all the straining and phony feeling generated from their own tortorous narratives and fake played out scenes during their packages or the over the top gushing from the judges. Everytime they were praised to the skies I never felt it was genuine but like the the producers wanted to maneuver them into the finals because Janel was someone they thought would do well on tour if they could just place her high enough in the overall standings to warrant her inclusion. It's not likely Sadie or Bethany would go on tour like that since their careers lie elsewhere as well as their age (though maybe that's less of a concern for Bethany). That was what put me off all the bragging and then when I watched that week's dance nothing that then met up to the expectation that they had built up for themselves.

 

I think I would have naturally enjoyed them a lot more if they hadn't done any of that.

 

And this is a bit of a detour but... I feel like Val can be a bit one note in what he considers his performance "strength." I think he feels that the genuine Val is the romantic strong leading male portraying a sexy and passionate love relationship with a female. And so I can see him looking for that each season. Yet I've connected with him most when he hasn't had that... for ex I loved his relationship with Zendaya and Sherri. I loved the humor, warmth, and affection that he was able to generate with those two partners. And yes in the end I connected because I felt he developed a real relationship with the two of them. His choreography has grown in leaps and bounds over the past several seasons but he still has a ways to go to reach Derek or even Mark level in terms of range in his choreographic concepts. With this new generation of younger pros coming in like Witney and others who are pushing to get into the pro ranks like Jenna they've had a range of training from ballet, contemporary, hip hop, as well as ballroom (and who knew Witney could tap a little??), Val's competition from the other pros will only increase. He's going to have to continue to push himself choreographically. I think one of the reason's why he and his brother seemed to choke a bit on the freestyles is that they are only truly comfortable in ballroom when they've wandered outside of ballroom it's always been less successful (even with outside help). Though I think Val has more adaptability and potential to master other styles than Maks ever did.

[truthaboutluv]

Though I will say this Derek is very good at covering it up in public.

 

 

I honestly cannot remember hearing any stories of Derek being pissed about not winning any season so I don't think he's covering up anything in public. Derek's only big meltdown on the show was the infamous confessional during his season with Shannon and that likely had more to do with the fact that he was sleeping with her at the time and felt incredibly overprotective and defensive of her.

 

And I remembered that season, after that whole thing happened and was shown, during the press line that day all the other Pros who'd known him for years were basically like they were surprised at what they were seeing because that is not the kind of behavior they ever see from him. I remember Cheryl said she just laughed when she saw the clip because she was thinking, "wait Derek..." So I don't think he's ever gotten truly pissed about any of his losses - disappointed for his celebrity sure, but that's likely it. 

 

Also, unlike the others who like you said maybe are too insular, he does seem to pay enough attention to know when he likely may get eliminated because he's rarely looked surprised in my opinion.  I thought he and Bethany looked like they had a strong feeling it was coming, he stated in his blog last season that he prepared Amy for the likelihood that they would not win, I thought he didn't look too surprised when Ricki Lake came in third. The last time I thought he seemed genuinely disappointed was when Maria was eliminated and when Shawn lost All-Stars. 

 

Wendy didn't. Ya never know.

 

 

I watch Wendy's talk show off and on and her obvious bitterness and disdain for the show is hilarious. Like the way she acts you almost get the feeling she somehow felt like she was mistreated or shafted by the show and that's just so delusional and ridiculous in my opinion. 

 

But frankly, A list celebrities are never going to do this show and it has nothing to do with the young kids.  It had everything to do with how the show is perceived, in addition to not wanting to put oneself out there for that sort of judgement--both in terms of their skill and popularity with the audience.

 

 

This exactly. As I said when many were complaining about this season's cast and acting like the show had suddenly taken this massive nosedive in the kind of people it got - in my opinion, the show has never been this highbrow of A or even B list stars. It's always been a mix of athletes, reality show personalities and some nostalgic name from hit shows of yesteryear. 

 

Have we noticed over the years that it's the really, truly *genuine* partnerships that seem to do well?  Think about Peta and Tommy.  And especially Witney and Alfonso.  No showmance.  No pretend-fights.  No drama.

 

 

This is why I keep saying showmances do not work and you would think people would realize that - it didn't work for Karina and Mario, didn't work for Val and Kelly, didn't work for Maks and Erin, etc. And really just look at Derek and his five wins. Not one of these partnerships had even a hint of anything but a professional and friendly partnership.

 

Or Peta who despite two different showmance seasons, her only win was with married Donald Driver who she had a fun brother/sister type relationship with. I know the producers are partly to blame but the celebrities play into it too and I just wish they'd give the viewers more credit and realize that people can often see through that stuff and it just turns them off. 

Edited November 28, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Abra]

There's a theory (and I'm pretty sure it was confirmed at least once) that the producers let the #2 person know ahead of time that they haven't won.

 

That doesn't surprise me at all. Sadie looked upset the entire night; all of her energy seemed forced. I felt like Bethany and Derek were told ahead of time as well, they were just a lot more composed about and accepting of it.

 

I didn't notice until someone mentioned it that Cheryl was crying after the opening number. I had no idea it was her last season; I had a few seasons where I couldn't stand her due to the way she treated her partners, but they were anomolies I think. I really liked her overall and she will definitely be missed. I wish the show had acknowledged her in some way.

[spanana]

I don't think Bethany/Derek knew ahead of time.  I just think Derek is a bit more aware of the machinations of the show as opposed to some of the other pros.  Even the first night of the finale, there is a clip of he and Bethany pre-show talking about how getting the first dance draw on finale night generally isn't a good sign but they were going to fight as hard as they could.  While it's not enough to be a pattern, since the show has gone down to the one night a week format, in seasons S17-S19 the first couple who performs on finale night is the couple that goes home in 4th.  Bill Engvall, James Maslow and now Bethany.  I just think Derek is more aware of that sort of thing than some of the others and he also probably clued Bethany in as well.

 

Whereas I'm not sure if Val realized that Janel was in the B2 with Bethany on Monday.  Tom said it and said it very clearly, but I know sometimes it can be hard to hear what is being said in the ballroom.  So that's where I have a hard time with Val's surprise.  Because for Janel to be B2 coming out of the week of the semis where she had the highest score on the leaderboard and probably the strongest dances, it obviously meant that Alfonso and Sadie had to be drawing more fan support.  As I've said before, I think Janel had a stronger semis than finals, so if she couldn't get the fan support to get past those two when she had her best night, how was she going to get past them when she only had a good night?

 

I also agree with what Missy said in the sense that the pros tend to live in their own insular world during the season, which is fine.  So they generally don't have a good idea of how the public is reacting to them.  They mostly stay in their own little twitter and social media worlds and the majority of people that contact them on there are obviously their fans.  So it's easy to think they are running away with things when they are seeing all the positive tweets they get and not considering that the others are getting the same thing.

 

Plus I think pros/celebs/fans in general have gotten so caught up in social media and followers and instagram likes that they forget that DWTS extends so much beyond that.   There are millions of people that watch the show that don't come online to talk about it or make fanpages or whatever else it is that fans do.  This season is a perfect example of that.  While Alfonso had support online, he probably had less over the top fangirl support than his younger female competitors.  But at the end of the day I think the general DWTS watching audience is what is mostly determining the winner.  The power voting teenage hordes can only do so much.  

[missysays]

Plus I think pros/celebs/fans in general have gotten so caught up in social media and followers and instagram likes that they forget that DWTS extends so much beyond that.   There are millions of people that watch the show that don't come online to talk about it or make fanpages or whatever else it is that fans do.  This season is a perfect example of that.  While Alfonso had support online, he probably had less over the top fangirl support than his younger female competitors.  But at the end of the day I think the general DWTS watching audience is what is mostly determining the winner.  The power voting teenage hordes can only do so much.  

 

 

I read somewhere someone saying that teens will help you on a Twitter vote-- why Bethany was able to get that encore dance and someone like James in the season before because it's fast and easy and allows them to do so because most have Twitter accounts already. But that even online voting requires setting up an email account and then connecting your email account to either an ABC account or Facebook account- both which are involved processes. I know because I tried to login via Facebook and even with my existing account it took a validation step that didn't take on the first go round. Teens will also text - but they've taken away the option to text/vote this season.

 

Also, as spanana says having a young teen demographic isn't enough to take it all the way. Both Alfonso and Sadie had a multiple generation, multiple fan sector support. Janel only had her PLL and showmance fan support. And I'm not convinced her PLL fan support was all that solid. Other celeb support isn't always a major factor in a win but it does demonstrate which other demographics you may appeal to as a celeb. Sadie obviously had both conservative religious support as well as southern, country fan/ Duck Dynasty support. Janel had some PLL support via the official PLL twitter and social media accounts but besides Brant and the show runner had little visible cast support from the main actors on the show. She also didn't have as much celebrity support on her side- I think her friends tend to be other struggling actors and entertainers. Val actually had more celebrity support from his side of the equation with Maks, Meryl, and Zendaya tweeting for him. And even then it wasn't solid because people who were C-bros fans or fans of Zendaya were divided on his relationship with Janel. Alfonso on the other hand had his entire Fresh Prince cast (even Will Smith on Facebook) as well as other celeb friends he's acquired over the years- plus all the ensuing nostalgia. He also had friends in the political and sports sector as well as being a father and husband with a young growing family he hit many more demos than Janel could even dream to touch. I feel also that his fan support was undivided because the rapport he developed with Witney was such a friendly, natural one. And on top of it all, he was the most natural, sophisticated and effective performer. He held your attention even dancing next to a pro or in a crowd of pros. Most pros who have troupe members in their dances disappear a little bit- not Alfonso his energy and performance ability made it feel like he was leading the entire pack.

[howmanywords]

One of the funniest things I heard yet was one of my friends on Facebook, her daughter is a "Motavator" and was really upset about Bethany and Derek losing and she said she couldnt understand how she could have lost. She was like "but mom Beth has millions who love her and we support her with everything!" So my friend said "yeah but she was up against Carlton, she didnt really have a chance". Cracked me up because its pretty much the truth. I thought it spoke volumes that Bethany's claim to fame is being a You Tube sensation and yet her dances on there really didnt garner a ton of views compared to what some of Alfonso and Sadie's dances got.