Small Talk: The Prayer Closet

[lookeyloo]

for me it was my father. Since we didn’t have a good relationship it was so hard to get a Father’s Day care. I was never “daddy’s little girl” and he was never “my hero”.  We did have a roof over our heads and food on the table so there was that. 

[GeeGolly]

Parenting is tough, thankfully most parents only make 1000+ mistakes, but with good intentions. But sadly, there are the exceptions and some parents just suck. 

But some truly shitty parents produce great kids and some great parents produce not so great kids because we are not the only thing that influences development. Genetics/temperament, peers, teachers, environment, etc, all factor in as well.

As parents we can't take credit for every good thing our kids do, nor should we blame ourselves for every bad thing they do. Same goes for looking at our own parents.

[GeeGolly]

One of the rounds in this word game I play needed two six letter words. I got raccoon soon into the round and then as the time was running out I got the second one - corona. Even during my periods of escape this damn virus is stalking me.

[Marshmallow Mollie]

I basically do not have a relationship with my mother, and I have learned to keep that very quiet for many reasons including, “but she’s your mother!” Or there is also, “you should just tell her how you feel!” Mkay. Over many years, and with the help of a therapist, I put up boundary after boundary. Now that she can’t manipulate me, she has no use for me and has told me multiple times we are not family any more. I have read some on family estrangement. Evidently it is rare that the parent disowns the child. While it wouldn’t be accurate to say the estrangement was completely initiated by my mother, I nonetheless also keep it quiet because it’s all so weird. Who is hated by their mother?! Me! (Because she is mentally ill) So I keep it on the downlow.  I actually moved across the state to be closer to her last year because she is in decline. When she is in the hospital, I visit her, I drive her home, maybe bring her food once later, and then nothing. I’m there when I have to be, but nothing more. 
 

I had a parenting triumph the other day. I had to take my dog (my first baby) to the vet urgently. In the car, the kids were being loud and prattling on like normal. I was trying so hard not to yell at them to be quiet because I was so stressed. I couldn’t fathom how my kids cannot read the room! I mean, at their age I knew to discern and tiptoe around my mother’s emotions...and then it hit me. Oh, I think I have done something right here! Once we got to the vet, I was able to calmly explain to them how I was feeling and therefore how I needed them to behave. Parenting triumph! And my Mollie is on a new med and good as new.

[Scarlett45]

9 hours ago, magpye29 said:

Boy do I know that feeling!  I hate those posts on facebook that are all about be nice to your mother because she's the only one you've got. So what? She has the relationship with me that she created. I try to be nice to her, but prolonged exposure wears thin quickly.

Those posts only make sense if the “mother” was a MOTHER to YOU first. There’s a huge difference between a Mother (or father) and an egg donor/surrogate/state mandated caregiver. A mother (or father), would take a bullet for you, loves the air that keeps you cool, fights for your success and protects you fiercely to the best of their ability from ALL things. 
 

Yes you should be nice to someone who has worked every day of your life to protect, nurture you, and is devoted to your care and happiness. Some random with a working reproductive system- hell no. 

[Minivanessa]

13 minutes ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

I basically do not have a relationship with my mother, and I have learned to keep that very quiet for many reasons including, “but she’s your mother!” . . ., I nonetheless also keep it quiet because it’s all so weird. Who is hated by their mother?! Me! (Because she is mentally ill) So I keep it on the downlow.  I actually moved across the state to be closer to her last year because she is in decline. When she is in the hospital, I visit her, I drive her home, maybe bring her food once later, and then nothing. I’m there when I have to be, but nothing more. 

I had a parenting triumph the other day. I had to take my dog (my first baby) to the vet urgently. In the car, the kids were being loud and prattling on like normal. I was trying so hard not to yell at them to be quiet because I was so stressed. I couldn’t fathom how my kids cannot read the room! I mean, at their age I knew to discern and tiptoe around my mother’s emotions...and then it hit me. Oh, I think I have done something right here! Once we got to the vet, I was able to calmly explain to them how I was feeling and therefore how I needed them to behave. Parenting triumph! And my Mollie is on a new med and good as new.

Yes, that's a BIG parenting triumph!! You deserve a balloon drop and confetti, with a professional cleanup crew to take care of the post-party mess. 

I've been nodding my head and hitting "like" a lot during this discussion of problematic mothers. Mine is long since dead but we had essentially no relationship after she left when I was two. I'm not in a mood to write about it right now, but I'm old enough to just scroll on by the saccharine Facebook Mother's Day bullshit stuff with merely the occasional eyeroll. I will say that she had some kind of mental problems, maybe it was personality defects, certainly she was chronically dissatisfied. With age and perspective I've ceased demonizing her, and I never believed she ruined my life. My dad remarried when I was a little kid. My stepmom was a very loving and sweet woman, and I got a lot of love and kindness showered on me when I needed a lot of it. As much as I'd like to cast the story with heroes and villains, it's just about real people getting through life as best they can. 

So, @Marshmallow Mollie, a bit hat tip for your parenting skilz, and I'm happy your pup is feeling good again!

[Scarlett45]

23 minutes ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

I basically do not have a relationship with my mother, and I have learned to keep that very quiet for many reasons including, “but she’s your mother!” Or there is also, “you should just tell her how you feel!” Mkay. Over many years, and with the help of a therapist, I put up boundary after boundary. Now that she can’t manipulate me, she has no use for me and has told me multiple times we are not family any more. I have read some on family estrangement. Evidently it is rare that the parent disowns the child. While it wouldn’t be accurate to say the estrangement was completely initiated by my mother, I nonetheless also keep it quiet because it’s all so weird. Who is hated by their mother?! Me! (Because she is mentally ill) So I keep it on the downlow.  I actually moved across the state to be closer to her last year because she is in decline. When she is in the hospital, I visit her, I drive her home, maybe bring her food once later, and then nothing. I’m there when I have to be, but nothing more. 
 

I had a parenting triumph the other day. I had to take my dog (my first baby) to the vet urgently. In the car, the kids were being loud and prattling on like normal. I was trying so hard not to yell at them to be quiet because I was so stressed. I couldn’t fathom how my kids cannot read the room! I mean, at their age I knew to discern and tiptoe around my mother’s emotions...and then it hit me. Oh, I think I have done something right here! Once we got to the vet, I was able to calmly explain to them how I was feeling and therefore how I needed them to behave. Parenting triumph! And my Mollie is on a new med and good as new.

You are very dutiful @Marshmallow Mollie, but just because someone has a working reproductive system doesn’t mean they have the emotional and mental capabilities to be anyone’s parent (in the emotional and social sense). You are a wonderful dog Mom!

 

I swear we need to encourage more people to be child free so that we have fewer kids growing up with parents that have no interest in PARENTING. 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Scarlett45 said:

Those posts only make sense if the “mother” was a MOTHER to YOU first. There’s a huge difference between a Mother (or father) and an egg donor/surrogate/state mandated caregiver. A mother (or father), would take a bullet for you, loves the air that keeps you cool, fights for your success and protects you fiercely to the best of their ability from ALL things. 
 

Yes you should be nice to someone who has worked every day of your life to protect, nurture you, and is devoted to your care and happiness. Some random with a working reproductive system- hell no. 

You make an excellent point. So many go to the default definition of parent - one that is nurturing and loving. When a parent isn't nurturing and loving, another way to set a boundary is to redefine them. They could become an "aunt", "sister" or "friend". By changing the definition, they won't constantly disappoint us.

[crazy8s]

11 hours ago, magpye29 said:

I've actually been thinking of creating a line of greeting cards for fractured relationships, like "You were a crappy mom, but I wouldn't be here if it weren't for you so Happy Mother's Day!"

my sister and I have lamented for years about our inability to buy mother's day/fathers day cards for our parents. as well as birthday cards for parents. we usually end up buying no card. or the basic 99cents one that just says happy birthday.

After years of therapy due to abusive parenting, buying a fake sentiment card is not something we will do

Edited July 21, 2020 by crazy8s

[Ijustwantsomechips]

@magpye29 I love Windmill cookies...or as my nephew used to call them, treadmill cookies 😅Have you tried the ones from Trader Joe’s? They’re pretty darn good. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Ijustwantsomechips

[crazycatlady58]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

You make an excellent point. So many go to the default definition of parent - one that is nurturing and loving. When a parent isn't nurturing and loving, another way to set a boundary is to redefine them. They could become an "aunt", "sister" or "friend". By changing the definition, they won't constantly disappoint us.

Mine went from mommy to Mother when she ask me if it would be ok to have fewer Christmas presents so my brother could have more. I was 11 and he was. 1. Yes renaming helps.

[Scarlett45]

I am frustrated. My iPhone isn’t syncing to my iTunes and I want to download my cousin’s album (purchased via Bandcamp). Ugh. 

[GeeGolly]

As for cookies, give me regular, basic unfancy, plain ole brownies, from a box mix and I will be your best friend for life. I get dibs on the corners.

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

You are very dutiful @Marshmallow Mollie, but just because someone has a working reproductive system doesn’t mean they have the emotional and mental capabilities to be anyone’s parent (in the emotional and social sense). You are a wonderful dog Mom!

 

I swear we need to encourage more people to be child free so that we have fewer kids growing up with parents that have no interest in PARENTING. 

I've thought this for a long time.  Society expectation is for everyone to have children.  This is a disaster for so many people.  Even when it is a real choice, it is a very difficult job.

In the discussion of good and bad mothers I can't help but think of mothers who love their children and have all the best intent in the world but due to emotion problems and difficult circumstances make a lot of mistakes.

[Scarlett45]

10 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I've thought this for a long time.  Society expectation is for everyone to have children.  This is a disaster for so many people.  Even when it is a real choice, it is a very difficult job.

In the discussion of good and bad mothers I can't help but think of mothers who love their children and have all the best intent in the world but due to emotion problems and difficult circumstances make a lot of mistakes.

Yes. There are people who do have the best intentions but due to mental/emotional/physical health issues aren’t capable of giving the kids what they need (for the record I am not saying people with these issues or disabilities  can’t be good parents, I’m saying sometimes these issues prevent people from being the parents they would like to be.)

If people are lucky they have a community of support that helps out, or if need be they can get the kids to a safe place to be cared for. But so many don’t have that option. 
 

Most people are heterosexual and sex is free.....there we go. 
 

[galaxychaser]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

You are very dutiful @Marshmallow Mollie, but just because someone has a working reproductive system doesn’t mean they have the emotional and mental capabilities to be anyone’s parent (in the emotional and social sense). You are a wonderful dog Mom!

 

I swear we need to encourage more people to be child free so that we have fewer kids growing up with parents that have no interest in PARENTING. 

Jenelle from Teen Mom comes to mind. She should not be allowed to parent a plant.

[crazy8s]

18 minutes ago, Suzn said:

I've thought this for a long time.  Society expectation is for everyone to have children.  This is a disaster for so many people.  Even when it is a real choice, it is a very difficult job.

In the discussion of good and bad mothers I can't help but think of mothers who love their children and have all the best intent in the world but due to emotion problems and difficult circumstances make a lot of mistakes.

very true - my mom was sure she wanted 4 kids and so she did. I believe she suffered from severe depression my entire childhood. but the real issue i think was while she liked the idea of 4 kids, in reality she was a person who "didn't have a heart for children"  she could not stand noise, messes or the general chaos that comes from having 4 children in 7 yrs.

 

[Westiepeach]

30 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

As for cookies, give me regular, basic unfancy, plain ole brownies, from a box mix and I will be your best friend for life. I get dibs on the corners.

I shall be your best friend, then! I have one of these pans - all corners!

 

[MargeGunderson]

I knew I would be a terrible human parent, so that was off the table very early on for me. My parents are fine now, but not so much when I was younger, and I always had the impression that they either regretted having kids (my father) or didn’t get the kids they wanted (my mother). I know that my mother is particular thinks we should be closer but I have no interest in that, so she’s perpetually disappointed (and passive aggressive). Just yesterday I got a text from her husband saying she is “worried” because she hadn’t heard from me, which was really her asking why I didn’t answer her phone call on Sunday or call her back within 24 hours. I’m not close to any of my family since my grandmother died several years ago, and honestly it doesn’t bother me at all. But then again I don’t have a lot of emotional attachment to people (my pets are a different story), which is a different issue .

@GeeGolly, if you have a mini muffin pan, use that for brownies for more crunchy edges. You could probably use regular muffin pans too.

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by MargeGunderson

[EVS]

My favorite cookie is warm sugar cookies made from frozen dough. One time I made them and served them warm at a family dinner and my brother-in-law said that I should host every family dinner from now on. My sister, who always went out of her way to make homemade, often time consuming desserts was not amused. 

[Mindthinkr]

I was a terrible Mother, but my kid turned out great. Evidently she has forgiven all my wrongs because besides Mother’s Day, I get cards like this (well memes actually) 

I love her forgiving heart. 

[lookeyloo]

I want to say that although my father was cruel and unloving (when I called him after my brother committed suicide he said "he took the coward's way out) I decided to let it all go.  It was a decision I made.  He was a wonderful grandfather to my children, go figure.  He liked my other brother.  So towards the end we had evolved into peaceful coexistence and he asked me to come see him before he died.  I did.  He came up in a difficult time during the depression and his mother who adored him died when he was 15 and his father and sisters resented him for being a hungry teenage boy, etc.  He saw a lot in the war.  Not easy growing up for him or for me when I didn't have any skills to process anything and yes he could have been different.  But, maybe because of my children I chose this path.  Not a path for every one and no judgement.  

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Westiepeach said:

I shall be your best friend, then! I have one of these pans - all corners!

 

BFFs! Amazing, I'm ordering one today!

[Suzn]

24 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

I want to say that although my father was cruel and unloving (when I called him after my brother committed suicide he said "he took the coward's way out) I decided to let it all go.  It was a decision I made.  He was a wonderful grandfather to my children, go figure.  He liked my other brother.  So towards the end we had evolved into peaceful coexistence and he asked me to come see him before he died.  I did.  He came up in a difficult time during the depression and his mother who adored him died when he was 15 and his father and sisters resented him for being a hungry teenage boy, etc.  He saw a lot in the war.  Not easy growing up for him or for me when I didn't have any skills to process anything and yes he could have been different.  But, maybe because of my children I chose this path.  Not a path for every one and no judgement.  

I think there are parents that are so toxic and harmful to be around that they should be cut out of people's lives and there are parents that deserve some understanding and forgiveness.  You seem to have reached that understanding of your father.

[doodlebug]

15 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

I have a dentist appointment Wednesday. They will call me tomorrow with some questions. Would it be weird,/inappropriate for me to ask questions such as , Have any of your staff been diagnosed with Covid19? Are you aware of any of your clients that have tested positive? What happens if someone does test positive? I am not worried about picking up the virus at the office nor do I want to make their life difficult but I do wonder.

You should definitely call and ask.  And, if you're not happy with the answers, cancel the appointment.

[CherryMalotte]

I think everybody knows how I feel about my parental units.   While I appreciate being here I still feel sorry for my mom, she wasn't equipped to be a mother, and I'm so not going into why my male dna donor shouldn't have bothered either.  But it was the 60's, and was expected that they should have had a baby, and here I am, still working out my feelings about the both of them....or at least her,  the him I could give a shit less about.  Will say though that even without meaning to parents can be very destructive to their kids, and we as their children do need to step back and occasionally throw them a bone.  Doesn't mean we are obligated to love them or even talk to them.  We don't owe parents anything, and I certainly don't expect my Mini Malotte (who was very much wanted) to be obligated to me.   I'm grateful for some of the gifts she bestowed on me, and miss my mom terribly at times, but we don't owe them anything.

Oy vey, in laws!  Yeah I'm gonna stop right there...no one would believe the stories I can tell.


  

[galaxychaser]

33 minutes ago, CherryMalotte said:

I think everybody knows how I feel about my parental units.   While I appreciate being here I still feel sorry for my mom, she wasn't equipped to be a mother, and I'm so not going into why my male dna donor shouldn't have bothered either.  But it was the 60's, and was expected that they should have had a baby, and here I am, still working out my feelings about the both of them....or at least her,  the him I could give a shit less about.  Will say though that even without meaning to parents can be very destructive to their kids, and we as their children do need to step back and occasionally throw them a bone.  Doesn't mean we are obligated to love them or even talk to them.  We don't owe parents anything, and I certainly don't expect my Mini Malotte (who was very much wanted) to be obligated to me.   I'm grateful for some of the gifts she bestowed on me, and miss my mom terribly at times, but we don't owe them anything.

Oy vey, in laws!  Yeah I'm gonna stop right there...no one would believe the stories I can tell.


  

You had me at oy vey! I do want to hear the stories.

[Porkchop]

I remember as a young child wanting to hold only my Dad's hand, not my mother's. But I knew I had to take a turn at holding her hand or it would cause trouble for my Dad.  I adored him. My mother was not the worst, not violent, but just so self-centered, and really only interested in her illnesses and the attention they brought her. Picking out a mother's day card was always a problem ... I tried to find one that said nothing.

[galaxychaser]

Cutest video on twitter. 

[Nysha]

4 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

I’m not close to any of my family since my grandmother died several years ago, and honestly it doesn’t bother me at all. But then again I don’t have a lot of emotional attachment to people...

I don't have a close emotional attachment to people, either. I live 3 hours away from several relatives and I rarely see them or call them. This use to worry me, in that I might end up dying alone surrounded by lizards, but now I just accept that is the way I am. Plus, my youngest son has issues, lives with me, and hates reptiles.😁

2 hours ago, Suzn said:

I think there are parents that are so toxic and harmful to be around that they should be cut out of people's lives and there are parents that deserve some understanding and forgiveness.  

I agree. My relationship with my mom was always problematic. She was a very insecure person, my step-father was physically abusive for the first 5 years of their marriage and then emotionally abusive for the last 47, she had bipolar disorder, and she suffered from mild dementia for the last 15 years.

That doesn't make the things she did okay, but there wasn't any malice in it, she just had issues. Well, she also subconsciously blamed me for my dad leaving her when I was a year old, but we can't all be perfect. I miss her horribly, but being with her in the hospital 24/7 for the last 5 days of her life let us just love each other.

1 hour ago, CherryMalotte said:

Will say though that even without meaning to parents can be very destructive to their kids, and we as their children do need to step back and occasionally throw them a bone.  Doesn't mean we are obligated to love them or even talk to them. 

Yes, I've gone back and asked my children for forgiveness for specific things I did that while they were growing up. It's kind of funny that according to my two oldest my unforgivable parenting sins were not going to a school function for the one, even though he had been removed from my home for assaulting me and his sisters, and sending the other one to live with close friends at 17 because his behavior was toxic and destructive. I have apologized for hurting them for those actions, but I won't apologize for the actions because they were necessary for our family to survive.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Nysha

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

I basically do not have a relationship with my mother, and I have learned to keep that very quiet for many reasons including, “but she’s your mother!” Or there is also, “you should just tell her how you feel!” Mkay. Over many years, and with the help of a therapist, I put up boundary after boundary. Now that she can’t manipulate me, she has no use for me and has told me multiple times we are not family any more. I have read some on family estrangement. Evidently it is rare that the parent disowns the child. While it wouldn’t be accurate to say the estrangement was completely initiated by my mother, I nonetheless also keep it quiet because it’s all so weird. Who is hated by their mother?! Me! (Because she is mentally ill) So I keep it on the downlow.  I actually moved across the state to be closer to her last year because she is in decline. When she is in the hospital, I visit her, I drive her home, maybe bring her food once later, and then nothing. I’m there when I have to be, but nothing more. 

So many people either just don't understand, watch too many movies/TV shows where there's the happy reunion with the parent or telling them how you feel totally works, or believe the "But she's your mother, she's family, blood, family forgives crap". I grew up hearing the last one all the time and it was always towards family members who did not deserve it and I hated it. We were suppose to let go, forget about, and not speak of their crappy, horrible, terrible crap. Its crap. Some don't deserve it. Sometimes the best thing you can do is cut that relative out of your life. Family isn't a pass to be horrible and get away with it. It doesn't mean you have to keep forgiving because the person happens to be your mother or father, or great aunt or cousin. Cutting toxic relatives out of my family's life was a good thing. And its not your fault. Its theirs.  

Edited July 21, 2020 by andromeda331

[BitterApple]

My late grandmother was a malignant narcissist and the damage she did to her kids is unbelievable. The lying, the mind games, the bullying, ostracizing some kids while playing favorites with others, it was insane. Having seen it firsthand, I don't judge anyone who chooses to enforce healthy boundaries. Just because you share DNA doesn't mean you have to put up with being treated like shit.

[Sew Sumi]

47 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

My late grandmother was a malignant narcissist and the damage she did to her kids is unbelievable. The lying, the mind games, the bullying, ostracizing some kids while playing favorites with others, it was insane. Having seen it firsthand, I don't judge anyone who chooses to enforce healthy boundaries. Just because you share DNA doesn't mean you have to put up with being treated like shit.

That's where my husband and SIL are with their mother. They are both in therapy and trying to set boundaries, but this woman tries to sweet-talk her way back into their lives. Her sister recently cut her off after being harangued for years. The entire family knows, but SHE gas no clue we know. She started treating the husband and SIL much better after she was dumped, but she hasn't said a word about it to us. She's exhausting. And she's 88 years old, so she's not going to change.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Sew Sumi

[fonfereksglen]

43 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

My late grandmother was a malignant narcissist and the damage she did to her kids is unbelievable. The lying, the mind games, the bullying, ostracizing some kids while playing favorites with others, it was insane. Having seen it firsthand, I don't judge anyone who chooses to enforce healthy boundaries. Just because you share DNA doesn't mean you have to put up with being treated like shit.

Described my mother perfectly.  Other than helping my siblings with the immediate aftermath when our dad died two years ago,  I have not seen nor spoken to her since.  I realized that I only tolerated her abuse because of my dad.

Edited July 21, 2020 by fonfereksglen

[Westiepeach]

7 hours ago, CherryMalotte said:

Oy vey, in laws!  Yeah I'm gonna stop right there...no one would believe the stories I can tell.

I’ll give you two quick examples of my in laws. Husband and I dated for 2-1/2 years before we got engaged. We lived in the same town, both sets of parents lived within streets of each other. We got engaged at Christmas. I called husband’s parents to tell them we were getting married. Husband’s father answers the phone. I excitedly say, “so, can I call you dad?” He says, “you can call me dad, you can call me Tim, you can call me anything you want. Who is this?” 🤔

Then, after my mother died, after husband and I had been married for five years (so they have known me for eight years at that point) my mother-in-law came up to me at the wake, shook my hand, and said, “sorry for your loss.” She. Shook. My. Hand. 

[magpye29]

12 hours ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Have you tried the ones from Trader Joe’s? They’re pretty darn good. 

I'm planning a trip to TJ's next week--will definitely scout out the treadmill cookies, lol!

My niece is very close to my mother, and she tried to broach the trauma in the family by saying, "You were really hard on Mom and Auntie when they were growing up." My mother's response was, "Not that hard--and anyway, times were different back then." She has never been able to say I love you, I was wrong, or I'm sorry.  I talked to my dad about it a little before he died, and I sort of apologized for not coming around more often (and I literally lived right across the street!), but I told him my mother just made it so hard to love her, and wonder of wonders, he agreed with me. If I shared half of what happened during my childhood, you would find it difficult to believe, and yet it would all be true. The hardest thing would be my brother's death when he was 13--he was found hanging in the doorway of his bedroom, but in such a way that he couldn't possibly have done it himself--he had two belts buckled together, thrown over the beam, around his neck, and then tied around his hands BEHIND HIM. My mother convinced the police officer that it was a Houdini/Alice Cooper trick gone wrong, but since she had already cut his body down and laid it on his bed to try to revive him, there was no way to investigate. I just don't see how he could have tied himself up the way he did.  My sister (who was 11 at the time) and her friend found him, and when my mother and i got home from running errands, I ran up to see him, and he was thoroughly cyanotic and all systems let go. My mother-in-law thinks I should question my mother about it, but I don't feel there's any point to that because she would just lie, and the truth is, I don't know if I could believe anything she would say. You're probably wondering why I think what I think but won't say.  Well, that day, my friend, her sister and I had walked to a store a couple of miles away, and when we came out it was raining, so I decided to take a chance and see if my mother would come get us.  To my surprise, she agreed. So we dropped my friend and her sister off at their house, which was around the corner from ours, and my mother paused in the driveway and had this funny look on her face as she stared at the house, then she asked if I wanted to go to the S&H green stamp store with her, so I said yes, and by the time we got back home and I saw my brother's body, there was no saving him. Did I tell anyone what I was afraid of? Hell no.  I'd already learned that trying to tell people we were being abused only got me into big trouble at home, so I kept my thoughts to myself. Do I want to know what happened?  Not if it's bad.  What would I do with that information? Even worse, what if I'm wrong? I have worried that when I meet my maker, I will be punished for believing something wrong about her and letting it ruin our relationship, but believe me when I say, I have more than enough reasons to hate her even without this. I've spent years in therapy and been diagnosed with PTSD. I can't talk about why this is so fresh in my mind right now (I will share why later this week or early next week), but it still wears on me.

I don't talk about it much any more, but there are three things family members (and others) said over the years that made it very difficult to get over this.  1. I never saw any signs of abuse. 2. You kids were pretty difficult. 3. You need to get over it already. Believe me, I wish I could.

[magpye29]

They call me the Thread Killer--and I'm not even from Pern!

[GeeGolly]

@magpye29, I'm so sorry you endured so much trauma in your childhood. It seems most of us here are wounded souls. Even with adulthood struggles it shows how strong and resilient everyone who posts here is.

Warm, fuzzy and healing hugs to anyone who needs them. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by GeeGolly

[BetyBee]

9 hours ago, magpye29 said:

I'm planning a trip to TJ's next week--will definitely scout out the treadmill cookies, lol!

My niece is very close to my mother, and she tried to broach the trauma in the family by saying, "You were really hard on Mom and Auntie when they were growing up." My mother's response was, "Not that hard--and anyway, times were different back then." She has never been able to say I love you, I was wrong, or I'm sorry.  I talked to my dad about it a little before he died, and I sort of apologized for not coming around more often (and I literally lived right across the street!), but I told him my mother just made it so hard to love her, and wonder of wonders, he agreed with me. If I shared half of what happened during my childhood, you would find it difficult to believe, and yet it would all be true. The hardest thing would be my brother's death when he was 13--he was found hanging in the doorway of his bedroom, but in such a way that he couldn't possibly have done it himself--he had two belts buckled together, thrown over the beam, around his neck, and then tied around his hands BEHIND HIM. My mother convinced the police officer that it was a Houdini/Alice Cooper trick gone wrong, but since she had already cut his body down and laid it on his bed to try to revive him, there was no way to investigate. I just don't see how he could have tied himself up the way he did.  My sister (who was 11 at the time) and her friend found him, and when my mother and i got home from running errands, I ran up to see him, and he was thoroughly cyanotic and all systems let go. My mother-in-law thinks I should question my mother about it, but I don't feel there's any point to that because she would just lie, and the truth is, I don't know if I could believe anything she would say. You're probably wondering why I think what I think but won't say.  Well, that day, my friend, her sister and I had walked to a store a couple of miles away, and when we came out it was raining, so I decided to take a chance and see if my mother would come get us.  To my surprise, she agreed. So we dropped my friend and her sister off at their house, which was around the corner from ours, and my mother paused in the driveway and had this funny look on her face as she stared at the house, then she asked if I wanted to go to the S&H green stamp store with her, so I said yes, and by the time we got back home and I saw my brother's body, there was no saving him. Did I tell anyone what I was afraid of? Hell no.  I'd already learned that trying to tell people we were being abused only got me into big trouble at home, so I kept my thoughts to myself. Do I want to know what happened?  Not if it's bad.  What would I do with that information? Even worse, what if I'm wrong? I have worried that when I meet my maker, I will be punished for believing something wrong about her and letting it ruin our relationship, but believe me when I say, I have more than enough reasons to hate her even without this. I've spent years in therapy and been diagnosed with PTSD. I can't talk about why this is so fresh in my mind right now (I will share why later this week or early next week), but it still wears on me.

I don't talk about it much any more, but there are three things family members (and others) said over the years that made it very difficult to get over this.  1. I never saw any signs of abuse. 2. You kids were pretty difficult. 3. You need to get over it already. Believe me, I wish I could.

@magpye29 - I am so sorry you and your siblings were victims of this monster. ❤️

[Minivanessa]

@magpye29, wow. You've survived a lot of really bad sh*t. Those three dismissive statements you mention at the end of your post, resonate so much. Sending virtual hugs, and I'm not the world's biggest hugger. 

[BetyBee]

All of this sharing about less than perfect families makes me feel that I have kindred spirits here! When people go on and on about how loved they are by their parents, on SM and IRL, I sometimes feel a bit less than. I was not beaten, but my parents were in their own world and had more children than they could handle. It was years before I realized that the problems were theirs and it wasn't that I was unlovable. My Dad has been gone for 30 years, but my Mom is much easier to talk to these days, as long as we all gloss over the problems. 😞

For me, making my own adult life with my husband and children (and now grandchildren), has been a second chance at a normal life. We weren't perfect parents, but we did far better than my folks did. Our kids are wonderful people. 

ETA: Husband and children are not necessary for making a normal life. That's just my experience!

Edited July 22, 2020 by BetyBee
Clarifying that it's not my way or the highway.

[galaxychaser]

@magpye29 with Trader Joe’s cookies you can’t go wrong. I recommend cookie butter ones. But I liked most that I tried. 
 

 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

All of this sharing about less than perfect families makes me feel that I have kindred spirits here! When people go on and on about how loved they are by their parents, on SM and IRL, I sometimes feel a bit less than. I was not beaten, but my parents were in their own world and had more children than they could handle. It was years before I realized that the problems were theirs and it wasn't that I was unlovable. My Dad has been gone for 30 years, but my Mom is much easier to talk to these days, as long as we all gloss over the problems. 😞

For me, making my own adult life with my husband and children (and now grandchildren), has been a second chance at a normal life. We weren't perfect parents, but we did far better than my folks did. Our kids are wonderful people. 

ETA: Husband and children are not necessary for making a normal life. That's just my experience!

You just described my relationship with my mother and siblings.  They don't like me to speak because I disrupt their impressions of our family.  It doesn't help that when I try to bring up something my mother said or did, she conveniently doesn't remember, and this stuff happened either before my younger siblings were born or they were not in the room.  I distinctly remember the response my mother gave when both pregnant with my little sister and little brother when people asked what she was having, "I hope it's a boy.  I never wanted girls, boys are easier."  I was seven and nine respectively.  Apparently that was a joke, and later on when I brought it up mom forgot she ever said that.  The worst part is other people in my family knew I was my mom's least favorite kid, and did nothing.  My dad's sister has joked about it, and I know my godmother knew.  My godmother was (bitch is still alive, but dead to me) my mom's cousin.  She was single when I was a kid, and we spent many a weekend together.  I could always count on her to buy me Barbies, makeup, dresses and other accessories, right up until she didn't.  She started coming around less when her sister had her first child and Janet finally met a man.  There was apparently also a fight between my aunt and her sister, that 8 year old me knew nothing about which also contributed to this per my mother.  I still remember when she showed up at my house to announce she was getting married on my 9th  birthday, but I was not invited to the festivities.  She and her husband decided on a no kids reception and I was not chosen to be the flower girl even though she had promised previously.  I spent that birthday helping my mom to babysit her other cousin's kids so they could go to the wedding.  This also strained the relationship between her and my mother, since my parents chose not to attend the wedding.  Well, my dad chose not to attend an event where I was not invited.  That was one thing I wish I knew while my dad was still living.  He was not the most vocal about showing his love and support, but when it mattered he stood up for me.  I take comfort knowing I was his favorite, even if  my other siblings don't agree.  

 

[Hangin Out]

19 hours ago, CherryMalotte said:

I think everybody knows how I feel about my parental units.   While I appreciate being here I still feel sorry for my mom, she wasn't equipped to be a mother, and I'm so not going into why my male dna donor shouldn't have bothered either.  But it was the 60's, and was expected that they should have had a baby, and here I am, still working out my feelings about the both of them....or at least her,  the him I could give a shit less about.  Will say though that even without meaning to parents can be very destructive to their kids, and we as their children do need to step back and occasionally throw them a bone.  Doesn't mean we are obligated to love them or even talk to them.  We don't owe parents anything, and I certainly don't expect my Mini Malotte (who was very much wanted) to be obligated to me.   I'm grateful for some of the gifts she bestowed on me, and miss my mom terribly at times, but we don't owe them anything.

Oy vey, in laws!  Yeah I'm gonna stop right there...no one would believe the stories I can tell.


  

I can.  I married her son as a Virgin at 22.  She was jealous of me from Day 1 as my husband always praised me.  In one of my mother in laws jealous rants, I heard she call me a “cunt” and my lovely Mother a “scrub woman”.  Trouble with her my whole marriage.  Boy, when she died, I laughed.  How’s that?  It’s sooo good to get this out of my system here.  Thank you!   P.s.  Still married forever.

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Silver Bells

[Ijustwantsomechips]

@magpye29 I’m so sorry for the abuse you endured, and even more so that you had to do so in silence.  Family dynamics are complicated at best, and sometimes family just sucks!  

My grandmother, my mom’s mom, was always pretty mean and favored some of her eleven children over the others.  The uncle that just died was not in the clique, and it really haunted him his whole life.  She still won’t admit any wrongdoing on her part even though she made him walk around in public in a dress as punishment as a child.  I get not wanting to talk to your mom about it as my mom just tried that and it made things worse.  As Iyanla Vanzant always says, sometimes you have to meet people where they are, and sometimes you have to leave them there.  

[Ijustwantsomechips]

1 hour ago, galaxychaser said:

@magpye29 with Trader Joe’s cookies you can’t go wrong. I recommend cookie butter ones. But I liked most that I tried. 
 

 

The ginger snaps are delicious too but they have a strong flavor.  

[SunnyBeBe]

19 hours ago, Porkchop said:

I remember as a young child wanting to hold only my Dad's hand, not my mother's. But I knew I had to take a turn at holding her hand or it would cause trouble for my Dad.  I adored him. My mother was not the worst, not violent, but just so self-centered, and really only interested in her illnesses and the attention they brought her. Picking out a mother's day card was always a problem ... I tried to find one that said nothing.

Man....I can relate. I was very fortunate to have grown up with grandparents and great grandparents, in addition to my parents, but, after a certain point, I had an extremely difficult time with my mother. I think the reasons were part personality disorder, part mental illness.....if not for the positive input from other family members, I don't know what would have happened. It's like they knew and shielded me. I just thought I had a very temperamental mom.   I still struggle with it though. . I think that covid restrictions have caused me to examine myself more. At times, I think I have processed it all and am fine. Other times, I wonder if I need counseling.  You know, it's amazing how many people have issues like this.  At times, I feel fortunate and other times, not so much.

I've parked my car in the shade. It's going to be another HOT ONE today.  I'm on colonoscopy prep day.  Lots of fun in store. lol 

Edited July 22, 2020 by SunnyBeBe

[magpye29]

Wow! You guys really are the most awesome! I came here this morning to take my post down because I felt like I had overshared, only to find so much support it made me cry!

On one of the threads, we were talking about potty training. Don't remember when I was trained, but I would get so into whatever I was doing that I would avoid going to the bathroom--so I would frequently wet myself because of holding out to the last (not) possible minute. So one time I  did this when I was about six or seven, and my mother caught me changing my underwear. She punished me by making me wear my wet underwear on my head so I would "remember to use the toilet when I was supposed to." She was so devious and inventive with punishments. She turned 15 six weeks before I was born (my father had no idea how old she was when they first got together--he was 19), so a lot of people in my life used that as the excuse for her behavior. By the time she was 19, there were three of us, all about two years apart. Before she had my sister, her family told her she didn't have to stay married, they would let her stay home, but then she found out she was pregnant with my sister so we moved out of the family home into our own apartment, which I'm mostly sure is when the abuse began. One of my first real memories away from the family home is of my father beating my mother. She learned early on that the way to keep him off her was to keep him focused on us kids, and she would lie to him to get us in trouble. We tried to tell him what was going on, and he would say, "are you calling your mother a liar?" Well, yeah, dad, actually we are. His personal code would not allow him to conceive of that. No matter what she did, he always had her back publicly. He was a redneck who had grown up being beaten with a bullwhip, and on some level, we understood that he was trying to discipline us, and he would apologize for being so harsh with us "for our own good." I guess that made it easier to forgive  him for being so brutal What makes it hard about my mother is that I feel she broke the maternal contract to protect us by painting the target on our backs to save herself. One of my therapists suggested the reason I was so traumatized by my mother is that I was the treasured child of my extended family for the first years of my life, especially since my brother had some eye issues when he was born and spent a lot of time in the hospital. So when we moved out, my life did a 180 and I went from princess to drudge and target. Almost all my memories of my mother are awful. I'm sure there are some good ones, but I have to think about it to find them. Even good memories are tainted with bad, like when my mother made matching shirts for herself, us, my aunt, and my great-aunt, which we wore to the theatre. We stopped for a picnic, and my mother took pictures of us in our shirts, but I ended up getting in trouble for not taking any pictures of my mother in her shirt. I was maybe 10. Never once did she ask anyone to take a photo for her, and there were two other adults present, but I'm the one who got screamed at for my mother's hurt feelings. Same when she graduated from night school--my father berated me for not remembering to bring a camera to the graduation.

Okay, I'm way too self-absorbed. I need to get back to work on my fictionalized autobiography so maybe I can put this to rest once and for all! Just, thanks again for your support. I honestly was afraid you would think I was making this up, but I promise you, as good a writer as I am (and my posts don't remotely reflect that), I don't have the imagination to make up insanity at this level!

[crazycatlady58]

50 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Man....I can relate. I was very fortunate to have grown up with grandparents and great grandparents, in addition to my parents, but, after a certain point, I had an extremely difficult time with my mother. I think the reasons were part personality disorder, part mental illness.....if not for the positive input from other family members, I don't know what would have happened. It's like they knew and shielded me. I just thought I had a very temperamental mom.   I still struggle with it though. . I think that covid restrictions have caused me to examine myself more. At times, I think I have processed it all and am fine. Other times, I wonder if I need counseling.  You know, it's amazing how many people have issues like this.  At times, I feel fortunate and other times, not so much.

I've parked my car in the shade. It's going to be another HOT ONE today.  I'm on colonoscopy prep day.  Lots of fun in store. lol 

Yes the prep is something else. The procedure is a cakewalk.

[magpye29]

20 hours ago, Porkchop said:

I remember as a young child wanting to hold only my Dad's hand, not my mother's. But I knew I had to take a turn at holding her hand or it would cause trouble for my Dad.  I adored him. My mother was not the worst, not violent, but just so self-centered, and really only interested in her illnesses and the attention they brought her. Picking out a mother's day card was always a problem ... I tried to find one that said nothing.

I'm sorry you had to do that, but I totally get it. And see, there really is a market for fractured families greeting cards!