Small Talk: The Prayer Closet

[doodlebug]

2 minutes ago, ChiCricket said:

Thanks for posting all the details on how your church handled everything.

My husband is chomping at the bit to go to a real Mass again.

I hope his is just as cautious when they open up again. I have to admit I don't want him to go yet, because he will be hard pressed to follow social distancing rules...

(I love him, but he's kind of clueless.)🙄

She'd better call ahead to be sure.😯

If your diocese is anything like mine, he won't be able to break the rules.  EVERYONE has to wear a mask at all times.  If you cannot or will not wear a mask, you are welcome to stay home. The floors are marked at 6 foot intervals to remind people to distance.  An usher escorts you to your seat which you do not get to choose. My church actually filmed a video describing all of the new precautions and showing people what would be expected and what was not going to be happening.  Prior to Mass starting, they had sort of a power point presentation on the screens at the front of the church with the important points.  Before communion, they put up guidelines for that which the priest reviewed in detail before starting.

[Oldernowiser]

IIRC, King Arthur Flour has a higher protein and gluten content, so it’s great for yeast bread recipes because it develops a stronger, chewier texture.

For biscuits, you’re looking for a softer, more tender texture and baking powder operates via a fast chemical reaction as opposed to yeast organisms slowly metabolizing carbohydrates to make dough rise. So certain types of low protein flour like White Lily are better, but you can’t always find it outside of the Southeast.

I’ve baked bread for years and always use King Arthur if I can get it. For everything else...cookies, biscuits, etc.... I use Gold Medal All Purpose.

And this concludes today’s completely unasked for lecture on “Flour As We Know It.” 
Class dismissed.

[Temperance]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Myka and her husband aren't much different than the JRods. Just a prettier package and apparently more successful grifters. Janessa was going to be JillR's Huxley, but now she's her poster baby for "Pro-Life".

They're also not that different from the Duggars and other any fundies we talk about here.

[magpye29]

I had to lector at mass today.  I've done a couple of the televised masses, but that was nothing like how things went today.  Every other pew was corded off, and there were tapes on the pews indicating where it was okay to sit.  We were also given sticky notes to place on the railing in front of us so they would know where to clean after mass.  Everyone had to wear a mask.  The priest and the deacon did not have masks on, which I didn't really notice until after I had done the first two readings and the deacon went up to read the Gospel.  Then I was like, wait, what?! because I wore my mask when I read (but I read loudly and clearly, so that wasn't a problem).  We were allowed to say all the prayers, but we weren't allowed to SING THE HYMNS!  it was awful, because our choir director (who sang by herself) sounds like a cat with its tail caught under a rocking chair, and she can't sing two notes in a row in the same key, nor can she sustain a note without going wildly off-key by the end.  Most parishioners don't seem to notice or care, but I view it as my penance to have to listen to her because she is spectacularly awful.  (No I don't feel guilty for savaging her singing, because I was cantor for the Saturday evening mass at my old church in Georgia, so I KNOW I could do a better job.)

Anyway, the priest did the communion ceremony and prayers, then closed the mass, at which point some ushers came out and stood by the pews to tell us when we could go up for communion.  The priest and deacon at that point donned plastic shield masks to dispense the host, and we went up, took communion, and immediately made our way to the nearest exit.  It was more than a little bizarre, but I was happy to attend mass with other people again.

[Temperance]

My roommates and I have decided were not going back to church for a long time. We'll keep watching on-line. It's not worth COVID. 

[doodlebug]

27 minutes ago, magpye29 said:

I had to lector at mass today.  I've done a couple of the televised masses, but that was nothing like how things went today.  Every other pew was corded off, and there were tapes on the pews indicating where it was okay to sit.  We were also given sticky notes to place on the railing in front of us so they would know where to clean after mass.  Everyone had to wear a mask.  The priest and the deacon did not have masks on, which I didn't really notice until after I had done the first two readings and the deacon went up to read the Gospel.  Then I was like, wait, what?! because I wore my mask when I read (but I read loudly and clearly, so that wasn't a problem).  We were allowed to say all the prayers, but we weren't allowed to SING THE HYMNS!  it was awful, because our choir director (who sang by herself) sounds like a cat with its tail caught under a rocking chair, and she can't sing two notes in a row in the same key, nor can she sustain a note without going wildly off-key by the end.  Most parishioners don't seem to notice or care, but I view it as my penance to have to listen to her because she is spectacularly awful.  (No I don't feel guilty for savaging her singing, because I was cantor for the Saturday evening mass at my old church in Georgia, so I KNOW I could do a better job.)

Anyway, the priest did the communion ceremony and prayers, then closed the mass, at which point some ushers came out and stood by the pews to tell us when we could go up for communion.  The priest and deacon at that point donned plastic shield masks to dispense the host, and we went up, took communion, and immediately made our way to the nearest exit.  It was more than a little bizarre, but I was happy to attend mass with other people again.

I’m lucky in that my church has someone who sings well to lead us at Mass.  She stood where the choir usually stands in the front of the church.  She didn’t wear a mask, but stood behind a plexiglass barrier and had a microphone.  The pianist who accompanied her wore a mask.

[Sew Sumi]

47 minutes ago, Temperance said:

They're also not that different from the Duggars and other any fundies we talk about here.

Except that the Stauffers aren't fundie. They don't even attend church, according to a neighbor, despite Myka prattling on about God. Just another ploy for subs, it appears.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Sew Sumi

[Totally]

As the mother of a child with Autism, I understand how hard things can be, and they can be really hard

No matter how bad things are, I couldn’t give him up

I feel for that little boy so deeply 😢

[Lisa418722]

It looks like my church will be reopening in a couple of weeks, but I don't think I'm ready to return yet.  They haven't been doing any sort of live-streaming, just sending out a YouTube video once a week.  I return to my office tomorrow, so I prefer to get back to that first and then think about returning to church if I don't get sick from work.  The majority of my church is over 65 and I don't want to put anyone at risk.  

[Scarlett45]

Came to check on @ChiCricket.

 

We are all safe inside with supplies. 
 

I appreciate all the prayers from praying folk. 
 

I don’t have much else say. I need to keep brain space to work and care for my family. 
 

Thanks for being here small talk family. 

[PikaScrewChu]

Someone should have developed prepackaged communion wafers and wine.

Damn it. Why didn't I think of that...

[doodlebug]

8 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Except that the Stauffers aren't fundie. They don't even attend church, according to a neighbor, despite Myka prattling on about God. Just another ploy for subs, it appears.

Yep, she spent a lot of time talking about God's will directing her in the adoption. Lots of buzzwords that would appeal to the fundie crowd. She also homeschooled her kids and apparently talked a lot about keeping them safe from the evil influences of the public schools.  After word of the adoption failure got out, people reported that her kids were attending the local public schools since at least last fall which she conveniently 'forgot' to mention on her vlog.  She lives in an affluent suburb of Columbus with an excellent school system, BTW.

I'm sure many of us remember the one and only Kate Gosselin and how she attended weekly services at an evangelical church, constantly bragged about her faith, scooped up tons of donations that she referred to as 'love offerings' from various churches where she and sometimes Jon would speak.  Then, when the show took off and she started making the big money, she dropped the pretense; stopped going to church and never mentioned her glorious Christian faith again. 

The tradition of grifters taking advantage of people's faith for profit is a long  one.

19 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Came to check on @ChiCricket.

 

We are all safe inside with supplies. 
 

I appreciate all the prayers from praying folk. 
 

I don’t have much else say. I need to keep brain space to work and care for my family. 
 

Thanks for being here small talk family. 

Been thinking of you and your family Scarlett, stay safe.

Edited June 1, 2020 by doodlebug

[Ohiopirate02]

21 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Someone should have developed prepackaged communion wafers and wine.

Damn it. Why didn't I think of that...

They actually already make them at least for Protestants.  Catholics use wine not grape juice, and I don't think anyone is making them with wine.  Pesky state laws probably prohibit it.  I also don't see the Catholic liturgy working with pre-packaged hosts.  We already have enough problems with parishioners who insist upon still receiving the Host on their tongue during a pandemic.  

[doodlebug]

11 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They actually already make them at least for Protestants.  Catholics use wine not grape juice, and I don't think anyone is making them with wine.  Pesky state laws probably prohibit it.  I also don't see the Catholic liturgy working with pre-packaged hosts.  We already have enough problems with parishioners who insist upon still receiving the Host on their tongue during a pandemic.  

Back in the olden days, I do recall astronauts who were Catholic going into space with some sort of pre-packaged communion wafers that had been consecrated.  I doubt they were ever mass produced though.  Catholics don't have to take wine with communion.  For many years, we never did.  Then, it became optional at communion.  Nowadays, since we all drank from the same chalice with just a wipe with a clean cloth between sips, it is not happening.

Our church has instituted a lot of strict guidelines for communion including a
Plexiglas barrier between the communicant and priest.  The only opening is at waist level for communion in the hand.  Before Mass and again at communion, the priest reminded people that NOBODY was going to receive communion on the tongue.  Prior to the lockdown, we were asked to receive in the hand and anyone who found this unacceptable was advised to get into the line where the pastor was handing out communion as no one else would be placing communion into the mouth.  He also told them they needed to wait for everyone else to receive in the hand first and then he would be sanitizing his hands between in-the-mouth communicants should there be more than one.  I paid attention, he had no takers.

[galaxychaser]

Well I’m not going anywhere. It got pretty violent where I was at, but it was hours after I left. Stay safe everyone!

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Back in the olden days, I do recall astronauts who were Catholic going into space with some sort of pre-packaged communion wafers that had been consecrated.  I doubt they were ever mass produced though.  Catholics don't have to take wine with communion.  For many years, we never did.  Then, it became optional at communion.  Nowadays, since we all drank from the same chalice with just a wipe with a clean cloth between sips, it is not happening.

Our church has instituted a lot of strict guidelines for communion including a
Plexiglas barrier between the communicant and priest.  The only opening is at waist level for communion in the hand.  Before Mass and again at communion, the priest reminded people that NOBODY was going to receive communion on the tongue.  Prior to the lockdown, we were asked to receive in the hand and anyone who found this unacceptable was advised to get into the line where the pastor was handing out communion as no one else would be placing communion into the mouth.  He also told them they needed to wait for everyone else to receive in the hand first and then he would be sanitizing his hands between in-the-mouth communicants should there be more than one.  I paid attention, he had no takers.

I am aware that we don't have to have both forms during communion.  In fact, my church doesn't have wine or holy water during the regular flu season.  What I do know is that most churches choose to forgo wine before using grape juice.  My church uses a high gravity wine under normal circumstances to help kill off bacteria.  I sit in the back and almost always have to help out the Eucharistic minister by taking a big swig.  My priest has a heavy hand when preparing for Mass.

I don't know how many people insist on receiving on their tongues in my parish.  I was basing this off of the furor that erupted on Catholic Twitter back in March.  I try to stick to progressive Catholics on social media, but this issue bled through into those circles.  I really don't have the time or willpower to listen to these radical traditional Catholics.  With everything going on in the world, insisting upon receiving communion on your tongue when there is another option seems like a strange hill to die on.  

[Jynnan tonnix]

12 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Boy, I sure have posted a lot today!  Went back to Mass for the first time this morning.

The Cleveland Diocese has issued strict guidelines and all of the churches have been advised to go above and beyond.  First, there were only 3 Masses all weekend instead of 5 to give time to clean between services.  One Mass on Saturday evening, two this morning.

Everyone was required to wear a mask, the doors of the church were propped open so no one had to touch them.  No holy water, just hand sanitizer dispensers installed at the doors.  No passing collection baskets, donation boxes at the entrance instead.  Ushers lead everyone to their seats based on the number of people in their party.  Groups of more than four were split.  The pews were marked with tape to show where to sit.  Left side of one pew, right side on the next to keep everyone at last 6 feet apart.  The kneelers were taped up and couldn't be used.

The priests didn't process down the aisle as usual, they just walked from the sacristy to the altar, wearing masks, although they took them off to do readings but were always more than 6 feet away from others.  No altar servers.  The deacon did those jobs.  All missals and hymnals were removed, there were screens at the front with the lyrics and prayers.  

At communion, there were pieces of tape on the aisle to keep everyone spaced.  They had wood frames with plexiglass in them.  There was an opening at waist level where we were to place our hand to receive the host.  Then, we were to step away to another marked area, take down the mask, take communion and replace the mask before returning to our seats.

When the Mass was over, we exited the church, row by row, through the nearest door to our seat.  No passing others, no congregating to talk.  We were asked by the pastor not to hang out chatting in the parking lot either as he wanted our parish to set the example for our neighbors, some of whom were concerned about the numbers coming to the property for services.

All in all, I think it went really well, they put a lot of thought and effort into it and followed the guidelines to the letter.  

The church also was planning to limit attendance to 250 people per service.  The pastor estimated about 125 came to the Mass I attended.  Currently, the Catholic diocese here has said that no one is required to attend Mass (Catholics are supposed to go on Sundays usually or it is a sin) and my church has become quite adept at livestreaming services and is continuing to do that, too.  Usually, there would be upwards of 500 people at each service.

Sounds as though they really did a good job covering all the bases. Stay safe, everyone who chooses to go back to in-person church services.

I have to ask, though - at the risk of sounding blasphemous, because I really do find church dogma fascinating - when you say no holy water, just hand sanitizer, I assume it was just plain hand sanitizer. I wonder...could a priest actually bless the hand sanitizer and kill two birds with one stone, so to speak?

[SunnyBeBe]

I shudder when I think back to many years ago when visiting England.....I attended Easter Service at St. Paul's Cathedral.  I went up for communion and even though they wiped the cup of wine, it still was the same one that others drank from.  They just wiped it with a cloth after each person drank!  I still can't believe I did that.  Do you know how many people were in that place???? OMG.  It was an honor to be there for that service though.  One of the best memories of my life. 

https://www.stpauls.co.uk/

[Ijustwantsomechips]

Prepackaged communion has been the norm in my Baptist and non-denominational churches for many years.  Come to think of it, I haven’t dug in the tray for a communion waver since elementary school (I’m 39 for reference).   The tray with the prepackaged wafer and juice is passed aisle by aisle. You take one and the ritual is performed while sitting in your seat. Another tray is performed to collect the cups. Hygienic and efficient.  

[doodlebug]

55 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Sounds as though they really did a good job covering all the bases. Stay safe, everyone who chooses to go back to in-person church services.

I have to ask, though - at the risk of sounding blasphemous, because I really do find church dogma fascinating - when you say no holy water, just hand sanitizer, I assume it was just plain hand sanitizer. I wonder...could a priest actually bless the hand sanitizer and kill two birds with one stone, so to speak?

Our pastor actually joked about doing just that!  They bless houses and food; I suppose it is just another inanimate object.

 

36 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I shudder when I think back to many years ago when visiting England.....I attended Easter Service at St. Paul's Cathedral.  I went up for communion and even though they wiped the cup of wine, it still was the same one that others drank from.  They just wiped it with a cloth after each person drank!  I still can't believe I did that.  Do you know how many people were in that place???? OMG.  It was an honor to be there for that service though.  One of the best memories of my life. 

https://www.stpauls.co.uk/

St Paul's is just gorgeous!  Us heathen Catholics still received wine at Communion that way prior to COVID.  Single cup with just a swipe between.  Probably close to triple digits drinking from the same cup.

 

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

 

I don't know how many people insist on receiving on their tongues in my parish.  I was basing this off of the furor that erupted on Catholic Twitter back in March.  I try to stick to progressive Catholics on social media, but this issue bled through into those circles.  I really don't have the time or willpower to listen to these radical traditional Catholics.  With everything going on in the world, insisting upon receiving communion on your tongue when there is another option seems like a strange hill to die on.  

The previous pastor of my parish, who was a great guy, BTW, was rather conservative himself and the parish became a haven for large families of Pre-Vatican II radical traditionalists.  The wives and daughters never wore pants, always in skirts just above their ankles, heads covered always.  The husbands and older boys always wore suits and ties.  They proudly bragged about homeschooling and the mamas almost always had a baby in arms in addition to a huge gaggle.  8 or more kids usually.   They would make a big show taking communion; coming up to the front of the church, performing an elaborate bow and sign of the cross and then kneeling on the floor before receiving the Host.  Very ostentatious and showy, IMO.  Also caused a huge disruption to the line and took a lot of time.  They also insisted on sitting in the front pews and would ask people to leave if sitting in 'their' pew.

When our pastor retired, the new pastor put up with it for a month or so.  Then, in the bulletin, he posted a copy of the bishop's rules for communion which specifically prohibit kneeling when it is not practical/there is no communion rail.  He wrote a comment that, as of the following Sunday, anyone who knelt in the communion line would not be given communion.  The multiple semi fundy Catholics disappeared from our parish shortly thereafter.

One family had several young sons who wore neckties each week with handpainted drawings of Christ on the cross, covered in blood with a horrific expression on his face.  These kids were all under 12 years old.  The pictures were similar to Spanish religious art of Christ's suffering.  Painful to look at.  Their father was interested in going with us to El Salvador and attended a meeting at one point.  He wanted to bring along several of his sons, all under 12, insisting that they were much more mature than other boys and would be big helpers.  We have taken teens age 16 and up, but he wanted an exception for his kids and we declined.  He never came back. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by doodlebug

[CalicoKitty]

3 hours ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Someone should have developed prepackaged communion wafers and wine.

Damn it. Why didn't I think of that...

Someone has.  You can find them in many church supply catalogs.

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Our pastor actually joked about doing just that!  They bless houses and food; I suppose it is just another inanimate object.

 

St Paul's is just gorgeous!  Us heathen Catholics still received wine at Communion that way prior to COVID.  Single cup with just a swipe between.  Probably close to triple digits drinking from the same cup.

 

The previous pastor of my parish, who was a great guy, BTW, was rather conservative himself and the parish became a haven for large families of Pre-Vatican II radical traditionalists.  The wives and daughters never wore pants, always in skirts just above their ankles, heads covered always.  The husbands and older boys always wore suits and ties.  They proudly bragged about homeschooling and the mamas almost always had a baby in arms in addition to a huge gaggle.  8 or more kids usually.   They would make a big show taking communion; coming up to the front of the church, performing an elaborate bow and sign of the cross and then kneeling on the floor before receiving the Host.  Very ostentatious and showy, IMO.  Also caused a huge disruption to the line and took a lot of time.  They also insisted on sitting in the front pews and would ask people to leave if sitting in 'their' pew.

When our pastor retired, the new pastor put up with it for a month or so.  Then, in the bulletin, he posted a copy of the bishop's rules for communion which specifically prohibit kneeling when it is not practical/there is no communion rail.  He wrote a comment that, as of the following Sunday, anyone who knelt in the communion line would not be given communion.  The multiple semi fundy Catholics disappeared from our parish shortly thereafter.

One family had several young sons who wore neckties each week with handpainted drawings of Christ on the cross, covered in blood with a horrific expression on his face.  These kids were all under 12 years old.  The pictures were similar to Spanish religious art of Christ's suffering.  Painful to look at.  Their father was interested in going with us to El Salvador and attended a meeting at one point.  He wanted to bring along several of his sons, all under 12, insisting that they were much more mature than other boys and would be big helpers.  We have taken teens age 16 and up, but he wanted an exception for his kids and we declined.  He never came back. 

Now I am trying to figure out which church you attend.  A couple of years ago, I was visiting my aunt and uncle in Mentor where they were attending St. John Vianney, and my uncle mentioned a family similar to what you described.  He was commenting to my aunt that one of the parents brought the brood to Saturday Mass without the other parent.  This being an anomaly and all.  I am just imagining people walking up to a non-existent Communion Rail in a church built post Vatican II.  The same thing for St. Gabriels, my old church.  I can maybe see someone pulling that stunt at an older church like Immaculate Conception over in Willoughby or St. Mary's in Painsville where an alter rail once was used.  

 

Of course, you probably don't live in Mentor anymore.  I just remember you saying you lived there.  

[emma675]

The Methodist church I attended growing up had individually packaged wafers for communion and little plastic cups for each individual to take (they literally looked like small plastic shot glasses, which was funny). At one point, with a new pastor, they temporarily switched to a big chalice that everyone sipped from and a loaf of King Hawaiian bread that everyone took a bit from with their fingers. I'm horrified thinking back on it, that was just a ticking timebomb of germs. 

Quote

They would make a big show taking communion; coming up to the front of the church, performing an elaborate bow and sign of the cross and then kneeling on the floor before receiving the Host.  Very ostentatious and showy, IMO.  Also caused a huge disruption to the line and took a lot of time.  They also insisted on sitting in the front pews and would ask people to leave if sitting in 'their' pew.

Wow, how very Christian of them. Church goers like that make me extremely uncomfortable. It's like it's all for show and competition to see who is the most "devout". There's nothing holy or loving about any of it. 

[doodlebug]

19 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Now I am trying to figure out which church you attend.  A couple of years ago, I was visiting my aunt and uncle in Mentor where they were attending St. John Vianney, and my uncle mentioned a family similar to what you described.  He was commenting to my aunt that one of the parents brought the brood to Saturday Mass without the other parent.  This being an anomaly and all.  I am just imagining people walking up to a non-existent Communion Rail in a church built post Vatican II.  The same thing for St. Gabriels, my old church.  I can maybe see someone pulling that stunt at an older church like Immaculate Conception over in Willoughby or St. Mary's in Painsville where an alter rail once was used.  

 

Of course, you probably don't live in Mentor anymore.  I just remember you saying you lived there.  

I don't live in Mentor anymore, but my parents attended St Gabe's.  I was there at Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve the year it opened.  Both of my parents and my nephew had their funerals there.

My aunt and my sister both had their funerals at St John Vianney, mainly for its proximity to the funeral home and the cemetery.  The associate pastor there at the time was lovely.  He still sends me Christmas cards since I planned my Aunt's funeral with him.

I also attending part of third grade at Immaculate Conception in Willoughby before we moved downtown where I attended a different Immaculate Conception there.  So, I have made the rounds of the Lake County Catholic parishes.

I live in a western suburb, but go to Mass at the church where I do medical mission work.  Long story.  I attend St Albert the Great in North Royalton, which is also a newer church with no communion rails but that didn't stop the traditionalists from kneeling.  In fact, had there been a rail, they could've all knelt together and saved time.  They seemed to want to do it one at a time in the aisle just for the spectacle.

[Ohiopirate02]

15 minutes ago, emma675 said:

 

Wow, how very Christian of them. Church goers like that make me extremely uncomfortable. It's like it's all for show and competition to see who is the most "devout". There's nothing holy or loving about any of it. 

They feel the need to show the rest of the parish that they are better Catholics than the rest of us.  They call themselves RadTrads for radical traditional, and they want to turn back the clock to before Vatican II--all masses in Latin, communion rails, the priest facing away from the altar during Mass, no women on the altar, etc.  They want to go back to a simpler time where the Church was a united monolith against the evils of communism.  They ignore the centuries of church history and act like the Church was always this way instead of an organization which has adapted throughout the centuries.  This ideal mass they worship is not something rooted in history but nostalgia.  The actual history of the American Catholic church is a history of missions which became parishes over time.  Only the major cities had cathedrals for decades.  In the area of the country where I live almost all of the churches are post Vatican II.  Before that Catholics relied on friendly Protestant churches for a building or heard Mass outside from an itinerant priest.  I could go on, but I am not a church historian.

[doodlebug]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They feel the need to show the rest of the parish that they are better Catholics than the rest of us.  They call themselves RadTrads for radical traditional, and they want to turn back the clock to before Vatican II--all masses in Latin, communion rails, the priest facing away from the altar during Mass, no women on the altar, etc.  They want to go back to a simpler time where the Church was a united monolith against the evils of communism.  They ignore the centuries of church history and act like the Church was always this way instead of an organization which has adapted throughout the centuries.  This ideal mass they worship is not something rooted in history but nostalgia.  The actual history of the American Catholic church is a history of missions which became parishes over time.  Only the major cities had cathedrals for decades.  In the area of the country where I live almost all of the churches are post Vatican II.  Before that Catholics relied on friendly Protestant churches for a building or heard Mass outside from an itinerant priest.  I could go on, but I am not a church historian.

Yes, there was a definite air of 'Look at me!  I'm such a good Catholic!' about these folks.  Very similar to the arrogance of the Duggars and, yes, like the Duggars and their ilk insisting that the KJV is the only legitimate Bible; these folks tend to think that the Catholicism of the late 19th to mid 20th century is the only true way to practice the faith. They are only interested in the history and customs from that era. Point out to them that there are multiple women mentioned in the Bible as being present with the rest of the disciples or that the Apostles were married and had families and so did priests for many centuries and they ignore you.

Edited June 1, 2020 by doodlebug

[PikaScrewChu]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They actually already make them at least for Protestants.  Catholics use wine not grape juice, and I don't think anyone is making them with wine.  Pesky state laws probably prohibit it.  I also don't see the Catholic liturgy working with pre-packaged hosts.  We already have enough problems with parishioners who insist upon still receiving the Host on their tongue during a pandemic.  

I grew up Protestant (Episcopalian) and we had wine! My mom was baptized in a High Anglican church and made sure we followed suit with the same theology. Any church that served grape juice had something wrong with it. Wine or bust.

I should go to other churches more often. Clearly didn't know this was a thing. 

PRE-PACKAGE THE WINE!!!!

[Albanyguy]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

 

The previous pastor of my parish, who was a great guy, BTW, was rather conservative himself and the parish became a haven for large families of Pre-Vatican II radical traditionalists.  The wives and daughters never wore pants, always in skirts just above their ankles, heads covered always.  The husbands and older boys always wore suits and ties.  They proudly bragged about homeschooling and the mamas almost always had a baby in arms in addition to a huge gaggle.  8 or more kids usually.   They would make a big show taking communion; coming up to the front of the church, performing an elaborate bow and sign of the cross and then kneeling on the floor before receiving the Host.  Very ostentatious and showy, IMO.  Also caused a huge disruption to the line and took a lot of time.  They also insisted on sitting in the front pews and would ask people to leave if sitting in 'their' pew.

When our pastor retired, the new pastor put up with it for a month or so.  Then, in the bulletin, he posted a copy of the bishop's rules for communion which specifically prohibit kneeling when it is not practical/there is no communion rail.  He wrote a comment that, as of the following Sunday, anyone who knelt in the communion line would not be given communion.  The multiple semi fundy Catholics disappeared from our parish shortly thereafter.

 

Oh, yes. Many people don’t realize it, but we Catholics have our own version of whacked-out, show-off Fundies, with our own Jim Bobs, Michelles, Jill Rods and Stevehovahs.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

Oh, yes. Many people don’t realize it, but we Catholics have our own version of whacked-out, show-off Fundies, with our own Jim Bobs, Michelles, Jill Rods and Stevehovahs.

We just hide it better.  In a large enough area with multiple Catholic parishes, these types gather at one church.  And the rest of us tend to then gravitate to a different church mostly because these types of Catholics find ways to extend the mass past an hour on a regular basis.  There are many American Catholics who firmly believe that Mass during Ordinary Time takes one hour or less.  Any priest who can rein the choir in and average a 45 minute mass is worth his weight in gold.  

[Zella]

I have some relatives who are staunch traditionalist Catholics. (Rest of the family is a conglomeration of Southern Baptists, Pentecostals, agnostics, and atheists. And one lone animist, though that didn't last long.)

They weren't always that way. I remember them being fairly moderate back in the 90s, so I was surprised by how much reactionary they'd gotten over the past several yeas. In any event, a funeral last year was . . . an eye-opening introduction to some of their friends. 

The priest was insanely handsome, though. I'd never heard the phrase "Father What a Waste" before, but I did a couple of months after the funeral. And I was like "FATHER KELLY! FATHER KELLY!" 

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, Zella said:

I have some relatives who are staunch traditionalist Catholics. (Rest of the family is a conglomeration of Southern Baptists, Pentecostals, agnostics, and atheists. And one lone animist, though that didn't last long.)

They weren't always that way. I remember them being fairly moderate back in the 90s, so I was surprised by how much reactionary they'd gotten over the past several yeas. In any event, a funeral last year was . . . an eye-opening introduction to some of their friends. 

The priest was insanely handsome, though. I'd never heard the phrase "Father What a Waste" before, but I did a couple of months after the funeral. And I was like "FATHER KELLY! FATHER KELLY!" 

From what I have gathered, there has been a shift in the young men coming out of American seminaries.  The priests who had the biggest issues with Vatican II found it difficult to run parishes under a lot of bishops.  They retreated into the seminaries and taught the next generation of priests.  Slowly over the last decade or two these priests have begun ministering to the faithful.  Couple that with the wonderful pillar of Catholicism Cardinal Raymond Burke who ran the St. Louis diocese who did a shitload of damage to the church, I don't wonder that your family has become more conservative.

Yes, Father WhataWaste.  Every female Catholic has her own definiton.  A guy I knew from diocesan events back in high school is my Father WhataWaste.  He is now a Jesuit somewhere which makes him even hotter.

[Absolom]

Our previous bishop was a bit of a genius in his way.  He gave the radtrads a parish that had been closed for lack of attendance so they could all go off and enjoy themselves together.  He even provided them an extremely conservative priest.  I haven't seen any of them around the various parishes since then.  I go to a parish that used to be the home of "Father Speedy."  Weekday mass was 25 minutes tops and he could get us out on Sunday in 45 minutes regularly.  40 to 42 minutes wasn't unknown for him.

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Our previous bishop was a bit of a genius in his way.  He gave the radtrads a parish that had been closed for lack of attendance so they could all go off and enjoy themselves together.  He even provided them an extremely conservative priest.  I haven't seen any of them around the various parishes since then.  I go to a parish that used to be the home of "Father Speedy."  Weekday mass was 25 minutes tops and he could get us out on Sunday in 45 minutes regularly.  40 to 42 minutes wasn't unknown for him.

The priest who was stationed at the church in the mountains of Pennsylvania where my grandparents were from was affectionately nicknamed Father Flash by my family.  He could say the Sunday mass in both English and Polish in 30 minutes.

[doodlebug]

42 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

 

Yes, Father WhataWaste.  Every female Catholic has her own definiton.  A guy I knew from diocesan events back in high school is my Father WhataWaste.  He is now a Jesuit somewhere which makes him even hotter.

Any good Catholic girl knows that the Jesuits are the hottest of the religious orders.

My mom was raised Protestant and couldn't convert due to stupid 1950's Catholic rules and a brief teen marriage.  She was finally able to be baptized in the late 1980's when she was sick and in the hospital awaiting surgery.  My sister arranged the baptism and she was there along with my older sister and my dad.  The priest walked into the room and my older sister and I immediately turned to one another and mouthed "What a Waste!" as he was a hot young thing.  I remember he was wearing loafers and argyle socks and at one point, my dad turned to me and whispered, 'Where did she find this guy?  I don't think priests are allowed to wear argyle socks'.  He was legit though, and my parents attended the church where he was associate pastor and he got pretty close to my mom, even bringing her communion at home.  He also said the funeral Mass when my 5 year old nephew died and did a wonderful job.  He's still around, pastor of his own church now.  And, he's gotten older but still pretty fine.

[doodlebug]

53 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Our previous bishop was a bit of a genius in his way.  He gave the radtrads a parish that had been closed for lack of attendance so they could all go off and enjoy themselves together.  He even provided them an extremely conservative priest.  I haven't seen any of them around the various parishes since then.  I go to a parish that used to be the home of "Father Speedy."  Weekday mass was 25 minutes tops and he could get us out on Sunday in 45 minutes regularly.  40 to 42 minutes wasn't unknown for him.

I have a friend who shopped around until she found a priest who could reliably finish the Mass in 20 minutes. Then, she drove 25 minutes each way to go to church, which kinda defeated the purpose, IMO.

My dad always went to 7:30 AM Mass on Sundays because, 'they don't waste your time with all that singing'.  He claimed that Mass only lasted 30 minutes because everyone there was old like him and they'd heard it all before so the priest didn't have to waste their time with long sermons either.

Edited June 1, 2020 by doodlebug

[Absolom]

I should have clarified about Father Speedy.  He had on average 1,000 people per mass.  He could have gotten us out the door much faster with shorter communion lines.  

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Any good Catholic girl knows that the Jesuits are the hottest of the religious orders.

My mom was raised Protestant and couldn't convert due to stupid 1950's Catholic rules and a brief teen marriage.  She was finally able to be baptized in the late 1980's when she was sick and in the hospital awaiting surgery.  My sister arranged the baptism and she was there along with my older sister and my dad.  The priest walked into the room and my older sister and I immediately turned to one another and mouthed "What a Waste!" as he was a hot young thing.  I remember he was wearing loafers and argyle socks and at one point, my dad turned to me and whispered, 'Where did she find this guy?  I don't think priests are allowed to wear argyle socks'.  He was legit though, and my parents attended the church where he was associate pastor and he got pretty close to my mom, even bringing her communion at home.  He also said the funeral Mass when my 5 year old nephew died and did a wonderful job.  He's still around, pastor of his own church now.  And, he's gotten older but still pretty fine.

Was it Father Robert or Bob?  I don't remember him being too attractive but I was a kid back then.  I do remember Father Pahler and his habit of falling asleep during all school confession days.  I honestly don't blame him, we were a boring lot of kids and preteens.  My favorite priest back then was Father Tift from the seminary.  He was always helping out a St. Gabes.  For some reason, the diocese was big on neutral sites for Catholic school athletics.  My volleyball games alternated between Lake Catholic and Charles Borremeo Seminary.  The girls baskeball games were held at the seminary.  Father Tift would come every Saturday and cheer us on.  

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, Albanyguy said:

Oh, yes. Many people don’t realize it, but we Catholics have our own version of whacked-out, show-off Fundies, with our own Jim Bobs, Michelles, Jill Rods and Stevehovahs.

Quite a few of the descendants of Karl I and Zita of Austria are fundamentalist Catholics. One married a woman from Cincinnati. She was very active on social media much to the dismay of her in-laws. The in-laws shut that down once they started getting bad press. Even deposed royals don't want bad press. 

They are fascinating to watch whenever you get the rare opportunity to see them start preaching. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by PikaScrewChu

[doodlebug]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Was it Father Robert or Bob?  I don't remember him being too attractive but I was a kid back then.  I do remember Father Pahler and his habit of falling asleep during all school confession days.  I honestly don't blame him, we were a boring lot of kids and preteens.  My favorite priest back then was Father Tift from the seminary.  He was always helping out a St. Gabes.  For some reason, the diocese was big on neutral sites for Catholic school athletics.  My volleyball games alternated between Lake Catholic and Charles Borremeo Seminary.  The girls baskeball games were held at the seminary.  Father Tift would come every Saturday and cheer us on.  

Father Bob, fresh out of the seminary.  Father Eric, who had the same hairdo as Manners' Big Boy, said my mom's funeral.

[marypat57]

I help distribute communion in my church at the 1210pm mass.  It’s (or was) a very popular mass, bringing a number of nonparishoners who work in the area.  It sometimes has just as many congregants as a regular Sunday mass.  There are some who kneel for communion, and some who do not take the wine.  
The altar rail was removed during one of the renovations in the mid 80s.  The posts were recycled into the pulpit.

[zoomama]

my church is not open yet. we are fortunate to be able to worship online on sunday morning. i am so thankful for that. i dont plan to go back anytime soon -- gonna let things settle down a bit first.  i dont know how communion will be handled when we regroup but it will still happen.

[realityfan26]

19 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

IIRC, King Arthur Flour has a higher protein and gluten content, so it’s great for yeast bread recipes because it develops a stronger, chewier texture.

For biscuits, you’re looking for a softer, more tender texture and baking powder operates via a fast chemical reaction as opposed to yeast organisms slowly metabolizing carbohydrates to make dough rise. So certain types of low protein flour like White Lily are better, but you can’t always find it outside of the Southeast.

I’ve baked bread for years and always use King Arthur if I can get it. For everything else...cookies, biscuits, etc.... I use Gold Medal All Purpose.

And this concludes today’s completely unasked for lecture on “Flour As We Know It.” 
Class dismissed.

I really appreciate you explaining it. I had no idea there were different flours. I probably have the store generic brand all purpose; but next time I need some, I'll know what to look for. 

[jcbrown]

 

19 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

IIRC, King Arthur Flour has a higher protein and gluten content, so it’s great for yeast bread recipes because it develops a stronger, chewier texture.

For biscuits, you’re looking for a softer, more tender texture and baking powder operates via a fast chemical reaction as opposed to yeast organisms slowly metabolizing carbohydrates to make dough rise. So certain types of low protein flour like White Lily are better, but you can’t always find it outside of the Southeast.

I’ve baked bread for years and always use King Arthur if I can get it. For everything else...cookies, biscuits, etc.... I use Gold Medal All Purpose.

And this concludes today’s completely unasked for lecture on “Flour As We Know It.” 
Class dismissed.

I'm another serious baker and I love King Arthur flour.  I couldn't find any flour at all for the first part of the lockdown, although fortunately I had a stash. I was able to get a 50-pound bag of King Arthur "Sir Galahad" flour that, though it is AP, has a high enough protein content that I think it will work for bread, too. If I want more, I can always spike it with wheat gluten. I actually have made the most successful biscuits of my life with King Arthur AP flour from this recipe: https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2015/08/the-food-lab-buttermilk-biscuits-recipe.html

[Temperance]

I'm a Catholic, but I'm disappointed and unhappy with how things are going. So I've been testing out a new denominational church. My new church has had us use whatever had on hand for communion during the livestreams.  So I had wine and crackers/bread in my house that I used for it. 

[Sew Sumi]

Just got an alert on my phone. The entire county (about a million people) is under curfew tonight starting at 8:00. Lots of distant sirens last night, so I get it.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Sew Sumi
It it? Okey doke.

[galaxychaser]

NY is under curfew too. 11 pm-5 am.

[galaxychaser]

I noticed that a lot of celebrities getting nasty commentary from fans on Twitter if they didn’t post anything about George Floyd. It’s like now every celebrity has to post something or be hated. 

[doodlebug]

29 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

NY is under curfew too. 11 pm-5 am.

Cleveland has been under curfew since 8PM on Saturday, not ending until 8 PM Tuesday,  There were multiple announcements on TV, radio and social media; specific mention that no one could walk or drive in the designated zone and that there would be roadblocks and barriers to prevent cars from entering downtown.  They also made it very clear that the only people who could enter the area were people who lived there and had proof of their address and news media with credentials; that no businesses would be opening and no one working downtown should even try to get there.  So, of course, this morning there was a huge traffic jam as people tried to get off the freeway and get around the roadblocks to get downtown because they apparently figured the mayor didn't mean them or their job.  I heard a woman call into a local radio show this morning complaining that her daughter couldn't get to work downtown because cars weren't allowed and the public transport wasn't running.  Her daughter's boss was going to fire her!  He's really strict!  The DJ's kept trying to explain to her that it didn't matter, her daughter would probably be arrested if she went downtown anyway.  She still didn't seem to get it that a civil emergency trumps a bad boss every time.

[PikaScrewChu]

26 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

I noticed that a lot of celebrities getting nasty commentary from fans on Twitter if they didn’t post anything about George Floyd. It’s like now every celebrity has to post something or be hated. 

Martha Stewart posted something and her fanbase went absolutely apeshit on her. 

Um... Snoop Dogg is legit one of her best friends. Where have they been the past five years?

[emma675]

My city has a curfew in place for just the downtown area since that's where the protests were. Now the protesters are moving into areas where there is no curfew, like one street over from my neighborhood. I'm praying it stays peaceful after dark and the entire city has a curfew in place tomorrow. We've had instances of bad people turning peaceful protests into riots and looting, like most cities. It's maddening to watch people take advantage of the situation for their own sick gain.