S01.E09: Kill Me, Kill Me, Kill Me

[Ripley68]

Timeline

Keating's fight, Annaliese leaves

Michaela shows up to get out of test with trophy

Rebecca is an idiot and runs up the stairs, M calls the scoobies

Scoobies arrive, Sam knocks Rebecca to ground, Laurel grabs thumb drive

Fight moves to hall, Sam lunges at Michaela, she shoves him and he falls over railing

While scoobies argue, Sam starts to choke Rebecca, Wes clocks him with statue (that had last been seen with Asher)

Scoobies agree to leave body because no one can prove they were there. Their fingerprints are on everything because they are there all the time

**Annaliese returns home, finds body, begins to cover her ass and calls Sam's phone looking for him

Wes returns to clean up trophy to "hide in plain site" as Laurel said, Annaliese and he have a talk, she probably convinces Wes she can make sure no one goes to jail since she is The Goddess of Defenders - she doesn't seem to distressed Sam is dead
Annaliese leaves to go to Nates for her alibi (which damn, looking back on it she is cold)

Scoobies determine they have to go back and get rid of body and clean up blood

Burning of body commences - MIchaela loses ring

Annaliese returns home, calls Bonnie, leaves message on Sam's phone

Scoobies come over, Annaliese starts to lay ground work for "Sam has fled because he killed Lila" story

 

Laurel and Connor are the weak links, their significant others no something wanky happened.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Ripley68

[blackwing]

As much as I love Viola Davis, I find this show incredibly frustrating to watch. Everyone behaves so stupidly. Clearly the killing of Sam was done in defence of Rebecca. They should have just called the police. But Wes wanted to protect his precious Rebecca because he thought it would incriminate her that she was stealing files or affect her trial or whatever. So stupid. I have a hard time believing that the three intelligent law students whose life is not all about protecting Rebecca would go along with not calling the police.

Loved Michaela especially for saying "I don't care about Rebecca!!!" when Wes said they had to protect her.

The biggest failing of this show is that I don't give two shits about precious snowflake Rebecca or precious snowflake Wes. Hate these two intensely.

Surprised it's almost two months until this returns. Michaela's lost ring is surely going to come into play. I think Bonnie killed Lyla.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Can someone summarize what basically happened tonight? I'm so confused. I watched it all but am pretty stumped. Please clarify -- thank you!!

 

Annie and Sam have an argument in which Sam goes from begging Annie to believe him and his innocence to choking her, Annie then leaves.

 

Wes, Connor and Laurel are diverted from their study grouping to check on Rebecca. Wes tells the car that Sam killed Lila.

 

Because anybody can just walk into Prof. Keating's office/home 24/7, Michaela does so without knocking or anything. She's thinking she can redeem the trophy she stole as a get-out-of-exam-card. Despite the fact that not a single light is on in the house for some reason, she walks right in and is confronted by Sam. Rebecca, who has no doubt seen Michaela enter the front door, decides that on the eve of her trial to try to commit a crime by sneaking in to copy Sam's hard drive. She too can walk in almost unnoticed until Michaela says "Rebecca?"

 

Sam assumes that Rebecca and Michaela are in cahoots and waits an eternity before Rebecca tells Michaela to call Wes and then bolts. She manages to get upstairs, find his computer, which is apparently not password protected or anything, stick the flash drive in it and it starts downloading everything on it. Sam threatens to call the police and busts open her own door. Rebecca manages to hide in another room. Meanwhile, Michaela does call the study group and lets them know what is happening.

 

They arrive before Sam breaks down door #2, and Wes tries to convince Sam to calm down and they'll leave. Sam's freaking out about what Rebecca might be doing with his computer. (Which, given that he erased his cell phone records, makes me wonder why he would be so stupid to leave anything incriminating on there.) Anyway, he pretends to calm down. Wes talks Rebecca down after the magic flash drive has finished copying everything on Sam's computer. Instead of hiding the flash drive, Rebecca keeps it in her hand. Sam pretends to be calm and then bum-rushes Rebecca. There's some melee action in which despite being outnumbered five to one, middle-aged Sam can get the best of everyone. Laurel for some reason listens to Wes and grabs the Magic Flash Drive. Sam starts to chase after her. For some reason, Michaela is able to push Sam over a railing. Let's go with his momentum. Sam falls over the railing and there's a nasty thud.

 

Not one of these law students checks Sam for a pulse, breath, or whatever. They all presume that Sam is dead and spend a few minutes arguing. They are busy having an argument about felony-murder. (In short, it's a doctrine that if people are co-conspirators in a felony and someone gets killed during the commission of the felony -- even one of the co-conspirators -- the co-conpsirators can be found guilty of murder. The idea is that felonies are so dangerous it should be considered foreseeable that someone might be killed during them and thus you have the mens rea, or guilty mind, element satisfied.) The trouble of course is that they are not and were not co-conspirators in stealing the computer information initially. They just were for plot reasons when Sam goes cray. Also, the five of them can tell basically any story that they want to the cops. It's not like there's any proof they were fighting over the flash drive in the first place. Also, I don't know how one could show that the students, who have had free rein of this place "broke into" the unlocked Keating home as Laurel said that they did. 

 

Somehow, without anyone noticing and in the best horror-movie-villain fashion, Sam has gotten up and gotten to Rebecca and started choking her. Wes  grabs the trophy and smacks Sam on the back of his head. (Because why just pull Sam off of her with your four to one advantage). It does not take Dexter quit being a lumberjack to show that it is impossible for a hit to the back of someone's head is not going to cause blood to spatter on the front of someone's head. Yet, Rebecca, who has Sam on top of her, gets blood all over her face.

 

Despite there being all these witnesses to this being an act of self-defense, and despite some people not having anything to do with the killing of Sam, despite these students not liking each other, despite knowing a world-class defense attorney,  the folks rapidly come to the conclusion that they are all equally responsible and the best thing to do would be to cover up the killing. (Which, as portrayed, was basically self-defense. But "How to Get Away With Self-Defense" is no where near as catchy a title.)

 

Wes cleans Rebecca up. Luckily he has a spare t-shirt and sweatshirt or something. 

 

Asher shows up, and apparently the Keating home has been locked. Or at least, he doesn't try the door and get in like everyone else does. Asher apparently thinks to come to the Keating house instead of just calling Michaela to get the trophy back. The co-conspirators don't even bother trying to talk in quiet tones. But Asher doesn't pick up on it, and eventually gets tired and goes to the bonfire where he gets his dance moves on.

 

Wes drops Rebecca off at the hotel and tells her not to leave, which as we've seen she already does.

 

Wes returns to campus and gets lost in thought in time for a driver to get mad and not even possibly remember the asshat. He goes to the Keatings, picks up the trophy with his bare hands and says, "I'm so sorry." As we find out at the end of the episode, Annie is there watching. 

 

Wes heads to meet the students, presumably after Annie has talked him through what to do.

 

Previously, Annie had gone to the police station and was thinking of ratting Sam out. (Or was she?) Then she goes to Nate's house and sobs on his shoulder. And then they hook up. (I'm under the impression that she has already talked with Wes and knows that Sam is dead, Which is actually an interesting double bluff. If she were trying to concoct an alibi for herself, fucking her sidepiece after confessing to him that she just got into a fight with her husband is probably not the move. Unless you are counting on it being perceived as such a bad move that it's a brilliant move). 

 

Annie leaves a long-ass voicemail that is of the same nature -- either incriminating sounding or so blatantly incriminating that it's actually exculpatory.

 

Part of the plan is that smoke from burning Sam's body will be covered up by the bonfire, even though the two are in completely separatelocations.

 

 

that would be funny and i was so mad when wes destroyed the flash drive, meaning he destroyed the only proof they may have had of sam murdering rebecca which also means rebecca ran up in sam's house like a crazy person and risked death for nothing and he killed sam for nothing

 

First of all, unless I missed something, there's no guarantee that there is anything incriminating on Sam's computer. We can suspect that there is because he went a little crazy trying to get the flash drive back.

 

Second, the computer is presumably still there and they can still copy stuff from it. It's just that the Magic Flash Drive would show when the files were copied, which would put them at the house at the time of the murder.

[possibilities]

This probably means either I or the show is seriously fucked up, but the person I felt worst for was Asher. With Oliver in second place.

[RedheadZombie]

Oh and hot hot hot scene between Annalise & Nate. So - yay for that.

 

That was major yuck for me.  Didn't he say his wife was in the hospital "again".  Yeah, they're both dogs.  I was worried that her wig would be yanked off.

 

I thought how everything happened was incredibly stupid.  Why did everyone come running when Rebecca called?  Why did everyone take Rebecca's side when she was breaking into Sam's house and hacking into his computer?  Why did Laurel run when the thumb drive was tossed to her?  I don't buy princess Michaela protecting Laurel. I thought it was stupid the way they managed to implicate almost everyone.   Even poor dumb Frank ends up with his finger prints on the murder weapon.  And wasn't Frank supposed to sneak the trophy back into Asher's room?  How does claiming the trophy was out on the porch equal "hiding in plain sight"?  Unless the trophy grew legs, someone placed it at the scene of the crime.

 

I thought Connor came off like a total psychopath.  Hacking Sam's limbs up and cackling.  He's insane.  And then his ridiculous sobbing to the ex - poorly acted, and not consistent with his earlier glee.

 

How pathetic of Bonnie to go running back after the way Annalise treated her.  I still like Bonnie, and I've added Asher.

[ShadowSixx]

Some of you do make a good point on why Michaela, Connor, or Laurel would give a damn about protecting Rebecca. I think they're all gonna look silly when they find out that Sam didn't kill Lila. I hope they find out that Wes lied to them and manipulated them into going along with Wes and Anni's plans. Help Rebecca cause Wes says so, I would say, Wes you're on your own.

 

I just want Wes to get his ass beat, I can't stand him one bit or stank ass Rebecca. That cop will still be a factor that they ran into while carrying the body out of the house. Their alibi is so shaky because of that cop, and all of them are seeming to forget that and not mentioning that while getting rid of Sam's body. The bonfire is not an airtight alibi because they can tell when the photos were shot, Wes being seen everywhere, Michaela's ring and her phone call to Wes while Sam was chasing Rebecca. They're in trouble.

[twoods]

I'm so glad that I didn't read this thread because that ending was shocking. I get why they covered up Sam's murder- they all weren't supposed to be in the house and can still get charged with involuntary manslaughter (Wes anyways). Sam was an ass though and glad he's gone, but of course that means he didn't kill Lila.

Asher and Bonnie were so awkwardly funny. And still love Oliver.

[pennben]

 

They're in trouble.

 

Of course they are!  Otherwise, show's over.

[Dowel Jones]

Also, I'm expecting these guys to get A's in her class for the semester....unexpected bonus for murder!

 

To paraphrase Roy Scheider from Jaws:  "You're gonna need a bigger trophy".

 

If Annalise was the least bit surprised by the discovery of dead Sam, it would seem that her defense attorney skills would kick into gear and she would work to clear herself first.  After all, blood spatter from the head wound would be all over her, but it isn't.  Therefore, she could have called the PD immediately and come off clean.  That is, if she came home and didn't immediately start scheming.  Methinks the interns are in for a rude awakening.

[scrambled eggs]

This probably means either I or the show is seriously fucked up, but the person I felt worst for was Asher. With Oliver in second place.

 

Same here. I want Asher to be happy and free from those idiots. He might be a douche but at least he doesn't burn corpses to hide his DNA.

[Hava]

Thank you to everyone who pointed out how ridiculous this episode was. 

 

It was all so contrived. As someone mentioned above, the felony murder concern makes no sense. They have access to the house as Annalise's students and employees. I just cannot believe that Laurel, Michaela, and Connor would go along with it. 

 

And why did Wes hit Sam over the head, when the four of them could have just pulled him off Rebecca?

 

Ugh. The stupidity made the last scene lose a lot of its impact.

 

It reminds me of the second season of Friday Night Lights

when Tyra and Landry could have argued that they killed that man in self defense but spent a whole season covering it up.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Hava

[angelita100]

I love this show.  Yeah I can question a million things but it keeps me entertained.  And I actually "like" all the characters...well maybe except Frank..don't get him.  Not that I think they are all nice folk but they've managed to make them all human to me.  A few questions were answered tonight but so much to look forward to.  Not sure how long Annalise has been pulling the strings.  Guess we'll find out next year.

[Artsda]

Well wow, didn't expect Annalise to know everything. But it makes sense since I didn't get how nobody would notice the rug missing.

 

When Annalise was leaving the sappy voicemail about loving him and wanting him back, I was finding that so pathetic. Then it turns the whole thing was part of her alibi and make her look innocent, including going to Nate to have him corroborate that he was with her I became impressed.  Calling Bonnie too, while she knew all along Bonnie wasn't with Sam. 

 

The whole murder though, stupid. It was easy self defense, especially if they have/had evidence that he killed Lila.

 

Connor calling Michaela "Frodo" when she was going on about the ring, hilarious!

[pennben]

 

The whole murder though, stupid. It was easy self defense, especially if they have/had evidence that he killed Lila.

 

Not really, they were helping someone steal something from the owner of the home.  Self-defense doesn't really apply when the homeowner is fighting against the intruder, generally speaking and Lila has been dead for months.  Even having evidence that he killed Lila doesn't excuse Rebecca being in his house and stealing his property without his consent. He's allowed to fight intruders in his home. Sure they have lots of arguments of how to get out of the crime, but they are law students reaching for the big money, which would not necessarily flow to them after their photos are on the front page of the news as involved in murder.  Further, they were freaked about how they indeed were there and helping someone steal something and someone died and they were involved and they were out of their minds.  Finally, fiction...and fun!! 

Edited November 21, 2014 by pennben

[Artsda]

 

Not really, they were helping someone steal something from the owner of the home.  Self-defense doesn't really apply when the homeowner is fighting against the intruder, generally speaking and Lila has been dead for months.  Even having evidence that he killed Lila doesn't excuse Rebecca breaking into his house.

 

She didn't really break in, she walked right in. In plain sight. It's also more than just a house, it's a public business. It's a law practice that has people like lawyers, students and criminals coming and going at all times. Rebecca herself is the client of that law practice and has been spending time in the house a lot with even Sam there. 

 

Sam also wasn't trying to get the USB drive at the end there, he was trying to kill Rebecca. Choking her to death which is extreme for wanting a drive back. Taking a USB drive doesn't warrant choking someone to death, it was self defense to try and save Rebecca's life. No matter what her reason for being in the house, which they all could easily say she was there to see her lawyer. 

[pennben]

 

Taking a USB drive doesn't warrant choking someone to death, it was self defense to try and save Rebecca's life. No matter what her reason for being in the house, which they all could easily say she was there to see her lawyer.

 

That would be their defense, it doesn't make it legal self -defense in a lot of states, especially in someone's home. There is evidence that this wasn't just a client visit....dead body, broken doors, cell phone records.  I'm guessing blood on all of them, skin under fingers, broken bannister.  Five on one....really?  Flashdrive from the owner's computer in "defender's" hand? They had to kill someone when all of them were there against him?  They bash in his head?  He had no weapon.  Is that reasonable?  He was strong enough to take all five on?  Or is something else going on?  This was his home, different rules can apply (although neat balancing act making downstairs the office...if that was the office, why were they up in the residence?

 

I'm just saying this is very arguably not self-defense or reasonable defense of others.  Maybe they could have gotten away with it, but it doesn't change that it wasn't really self-defense...they couldn't have pulled him off before he choked her rather than Wes bashing the head? 

 

It is not a clear cut case, but it tips towards murder...hence the rest of the season, and the title of the show...can they get away with it? At what cost?

Edited November 21, 2014 by pennben

[kikaha]

After all of that, I hope it turns out that actually Rebecca did kill Lila. 

 

I hope the same.  Rebecca is really bad news.  She was instantly willing to frame Asher for Sam's murder, even though Asher wasn't there and had nothing to do with it. 

 

This show could be fantastic -- the twists and much of the plotting are first-rate -- but the endless unbelievable elements drag it back down, at least for me. 

[coloradoqt]

So how long  did it take to burn the body, hack it up. put said pieces in trash bags, then still have time before sunrise to visit  other people?

Also you gonna burn a body to get rid of DNA, yet Rebecca takes a shower at the scene? Then Wes with his dumb ass, tell the other who are even dumber, "you know Rebecca can't be here". and the dummies who have no investment in Rebecca should stay?  Has anybody noticed ,it was Wes who   hit Sam over the head, yet he is gonna protect Rebecca and  involve everyone else who did nothing. There is no way these bright student could not have come up with a rational explanation  for what  happened,so quickly.  And with no planning or thinking, decide the best way to get out of this is to dispose of the  body . Annalise didn't pick Team Keating because they were so smart, she picked because they were so dumb..

[WalrusGirl]

I need to rewatch - both to solidify the timeline of when Annalise knew/which actions she undertook afterwards and to look again for whether they were all wearing gloves while handling the trash bags of remains. SURELY the people who knew to use fire to destroy DNA would wear gloves, but it was so darkly lit that I couldn't figure it out without getting up.

Re Wes destroying the flash drive - this really didn't bother me, because Sam's disappearance is going to cause an investigation (and he was probably about to be a potential suspect anyway) and his computer and that data is still in the house as evidence. Presumably Nate will make sure that the cops look for the same backed up phone data that he had Rebecca after, if they wouldn't already (someone in the department had to be working with him off the books, since I don't think he programmed that USB device on his own).

I also call "crazy stupid" on Rebecca just sneaking in while Sam was THERE AND AWAKE AND CLEARLY VISIBLE. The evidence collection could have waited until, oh, the next day when he left the house (since she didn't know that he and Annalise had a huge blowout, or that she'd requested all of Lila's teachers submit DNA, and that he had urgent reason to thoroughly wipe or destroy his computer if he thought it might still contain evidence).

Also, WTF was with her just...coming out with the flash drive IN HER HAND? Like, stick it in a pocket, at least, better yet tuck it into her bra, panties, or sock. THAT was the decision I really couldn't buy.

Using bleach at some point on the trophy - ideally somewhere other than at the scene, so the smell wouldn't tip anyone off in the short-term - would have been really good. I'm less concerned about fingerprints, since they've all handled that thing for months. I understanding not bleaching the floor to get rid of the blood, since the hardwood damage would have been an obvious tell.

I have become so desensitized to people on tv and in movies not calling the police when it would solve their issues that it does not even register with me anymore.

Ha, right? At least they gave a plausible reason; though Connor and Laurel had minimal involvement, they said it would be felony murder (presumably for all of them) because the death occurred during the commission of a crime (breaking and entering...well, at least unauthorized entering) and theft. I'm not a lawyer, but at face value that sounds right enough to me - when the NFL player (Sean Taylor) was killed while a group trying to rob his house, each of them was on the hook for felony second degree murder even though they'd gone there intending to steal, not kill him, and didn't think he was home. You generally don't get to use self-defense when you've broken/snuck into someone's home without permission to steal from them, and Connor and Laurel knew that Rebecca was sneaking in to steal proof/information - they shouldn't have had anything to do with it, but drove Wes to her and went inside anyway. Michaela tied herself in when she called Wes, and she was obviously pretty directly involved due to her maneuver at the banister.

While I don't doubt that Connor especially would have had minimal repercussions with a fancy lawyer, it would be a major problem with being accepted to the bar. (Less of an issue for him if he were already barred.)

So basically it's TV, and I even have no trouble believing that real-life people in that scenario would have bolted and tried to cover it up (if much less effectively) rather than calling the police and basically admitting to an inadvertent felony. ("Inadvertent" for Connor and Laurel; they knew Rebecca didn't have permission to be in the house, but may not have known that she was stealing to "try to prove it," and no one planned to kill anyone but a serious confrontation wasn't exactly unforeseeable by a reasonable person.)

Any actual lawyers have some insight as to the merit of their felony murder concerns? (And whether you can become barred with this on your record, even if you were the least-informed - Michaela - or least-involved - Laurel and Connor?)

If Sam's hacked-up body is found, won't carpet pieces be found, too, and won't that tie his murder to Annalise's house? Or was the carpet supposed to burn in its entirety even though his body didn't?

This may be TMI, but even with official cremation, identifiable bone fragments remain (though I'm sure Sam's were far more intact, since he wasn't cremated for hours, hence Connor helping them towards fragmentation). I'm curious about a few surviving carpet fibers too, if that will come up, but his body not being reduced to "ashes" doesn't signify to me that some carpet may have also survived.

And even if Annalise ditched Sam's computer, like I said the emails and data would all be on the university's server.

I think what Nate/Rebecca were after was actually location data from his cell phone (ie, on the night of the murder) that would have been backed up to his computer - on the assumption that he plugs his phone into his computer, and hadn't wiped the data from his phone before doing so. Wiping the phone's location data after a backup supposedly would have kept the backed up location info on the computer. So presumably she isn't getting rid of his computer, since he's very unlikely to have emailed anyone about his involvement and his wife covering for him! (I'm not sure what on his computer could incriminate Annalise, so she's better off using it against him.

So why did Nate try to hide Sam's guilt from Annalise earlier? I know he was mad at her, but that's an odd way to get back at someone.

Yeah, I never understood that either.

After all, blood spatter from the head wound would be all over [Annalise], but it isn't. Therefore, she could have called the PD immediately and come off clean. That is, if she came home and didn't immediately start scheming.

Ha, the blood splatter should have been all over WES, but somehow wasn't. Probably just for the red herring that Rebecca did it, showing her covered in splatter in an earlier flash-forward.

I hope the same. Rebecca is really bad news. She was instantly willing to frame Asher for Sam's murder, even though Asher wasn't there and had nothing to do with it.

Yeah, that was low, although my impression was that they more wanted him to be involved via incriminating evidence/walking through blood so he'd have to help them figure out what to do next/cover it up.

[tom87]

Why was Rebbecca exempt from doing all the dirty work?  Out of everyone she ends up being the least culpable in his murder and subsequent cover up and she was the one who basically got them all in this mess  in the first place.

[mikem]

I'm not sure I understand why the felony murder issue would be a factor here, since the 5 of them have plausible reason to be in the house and the only person who could contradict them (Sam) is dead. The only person who was breaking and entering was Rebecca. Michaela was invited in, and the other 3 entered because Michaela called them saying Rebecca was being attacked, which I think is a legitimate reason to enter someone's house. And no one outside of the 5 of them and Nate knows about the flash drive.  They could have told a version of what happened that was very close to the truth ("Michaela forgot something (or she could even say she brought the trophy), and she and Rebecca went to the house together.  Sam invited them in but he was really drunk and totally flipped out on Rebecca, blaming her for everything, and she ran upstairs. . ." and then basically tell the truth from then on, except for the flash drive/computer part). 

 

Regardless, the other 4 weren't conspiring with Rebecca to commit a felony.  The others were either unaware of any crime at all, or tried to stop her.  They didn't come to the house with Rebecca.

 

Wes hitting Sam was not technically self-defense, but Sam was trying to kill Rebecca (I'm sure she has bruises on her neck), and I think the use of deadly force in that circumstance would be understandable.

 

Rather than spending all their time taking showers and going to the woods, they should have spent the time coming up with a consistent story to tell the police.  But if they had gone to the police, there would be no show.

 

But I enjoyed how evil the writers made Sam so that we wouldn't be mad at Wes for killing him or at the group for covering it up.  He was really over the top.

Edited November 21, 2014 by mikem

[Chicago Redshirt]

Actual attorney here, and I'll expand a little more about what I said above.

 

Felony-murder IMO would not likely apply here among the Scoobies because there was not a conspiracy to commit the underlying felonies relating to the breaking and entering and stealing the computer data. (Interestingly enough, Nate hypothetically could be on the hook for felony-murder because he and Rebecca did have an agreement to get the computer data, and it seems like that agreement involved the understanding that she would do so by committing a felony.)

 

Rebecca did not have any plans with any of the Scoobies to break in to the home.

 

One could argue that a conspiracy to steal the flash drive was formed while the Scoobies were struggling over the flash drive itself. Wes told Lauren to get it, Lauren actually took it, Laurel and Michaela ran away together. I personally think that is a relatively weak argument, especially because it's unclear what any of the three ultimately planned to do with the flash drive.

 

As portrayed, when Sam went over the stairs looked like an accident to me. It didn't even seem like Michaela pushed him. And with Sam choking Rebecca, he was using lethal force in defense of property. My understanding (although I've not done research in this) is that would be an overreaction. You are only justified in using lethal force in self-defense if faced with lethal force. So I would think Wes would be justified in striking out in defense of Rebecca.

 

But even accepting for argument's sake that there would be enough for felony murder under the actual facts of what happened, this is all unbelievably silly because the five people there are the only ones who know what actually happened in the house. They can pretend that there was no flash drive, make up whatever story they want about why Sam went crazy and started attacking them. Surely coming up with a cover story that seemed plausible and clear self-defense would be easier and better than the extreme lengths that the Scoobies went to  in order to cover up the non-murder. 

[Gwen-Stacys]

I don't get people saying that the gang all covered up Sam's death to help Rebecca. They didn't. They each (minus Conner) had a hand in killing Sam and all of them were there trespassing. Not to mention, they were helping Rebecca get the hard drive she'd stolen (Moslty because they believed Sam really did kill Lyla and the proof was on the drive) and, like Laurel said, stealing someone's personal information like that is felony in 2014. Makayla pushed Sam down the stairs because he chased after Laurel, not to mention she brought the trophy (which Asher can attest to because she stole it from his house) to Annalise's. On top of all that, THEY WERE ALL TRESPASSING! Sam told them all to leave, even Makayla when she first got there, and they refused to. I think all of them taking part in the cover up had more to do with them not wanting to have a black mark on their record come graduation time, because every one of them would at least get into some trouble.

 

I loved the twist at the end when you find out Annalise was the one telling Wes how to get rid of the body.

[SimoneS]

That would be their defense, it doesn't make it legal self -defense in a lot of states, especially in someone's home. There is evidence that this wasn't just a client visit....dead body, broken doors, cell phone records.  I'm guessing blood on all of them, skin under fingers, broken bannister.  Five on one....really?  Flashdrive from the owner's computer in "defender's" hand? They had to kill someone when all of them were there against him?  They bash in his head?  He had no weapon.  Is that reasonable?  He was strong enough to take all five on?  Or is something else going on?  This was his home, different rules can apply (although neat balancing act making downstairs the office...if that was the office, why were they up in the residence?

 

I'm just saying this is very arguably not self-defense or reasonable defense of others.  Maybe they could have gotten away with it, but it doesn't change that it wasn't really self-defense...they couldn't have pulled him off before he choked her rather than Wes bashing the head? 

 

It is not a clear cut case, but it tips towards murder...hence the rest of the season, and the title of the show...can they get away with it? At what cost?

 

I agree. In most states, self-defense is only justifiable if the individual is in immediate danger. From the prosecutor's perspective, if they were such immediate danger, why didn't they call the police? Like you said, there were four of them so why didn't they just pull Sam off Rebecca? I think they would be hard pressed to meet the legal definitive of self-defense. Also, this would be a high profile case that could make a prosecutor's reputation and career. I can see them being charged with varying degrees of manslaughter.

 

I read the comments bashing the students and Rebecca for covering up the murder, but I don't agree. I think Sam's violent and menacing behavior triggered the events that spiraled quickly out of their control causing them to panic and make bad decisions along the way. It wasn't just about protecting Wes and Rebecca as much as protecting themselves and their futures. 

Edited November 21, 2014 by SimoneS

[Ripley68]

Even with all the poor thinking skills, I still enjoyed the show.  It's just entertainment. Don't want to think to seriously about it - fiction!  I can buy a bunch of young 20 somethings losing their minds when they think they've killed someone.

 

Connor wasn't being sadistic when laughing while breaking up Sam's bones - he was freaking out.

[Gwen-Stacys]

But wouldn't it really just come down to them being in Sam's house though. Each one of them got slugged by Sam, I'd think any attorny would take their bruises into consideration (or even their testimony that there was a tussle) and flip that to a jury. Obviously Sam didn't want them there, there's enough physical evidence to introduce that as an option to the jury. And from what I've heard from people who have been on jurries before, it's never proving someone's guilty...and always proving that they're innocent. There's enough there to side eye there reasons for being there and the situation surrounding their pressence there.

 

As for them calling the police, there is a theory that minorities and people who come from lower income backgrounds tend to...not trust the police. Makayla, Wes, Rebcca, and Laurel (well the actress) are minorites, and three of them come from lower income families. It's not out of the realm of possibilites that they didn't trust the police to see it as self defense....and Rebecca, who's already on trial for murder, being there as well?  Nah

Edited November 21, 2014 by Gwen-Stacys

[Neurochick]

I read the comments bashing the students and Rebecca for covering up the murder, but I don't agree. I think Sam's violent and menacing behavior triggered the events that spiraled quickly out of their control causing them to panic and make bad decisions along the way. It wasn't just about protecting Wes and Rebecca as much as protecting themselves and their futures.

 

 

I agree. Sam was violent, he nearly killed Annalise and the things he said to her were ugly, very ugly especially coming from a white man and saying it to a black woman.  I'm surprised Annalise didn't kill him right there and then.  Nobody really knows what they would do in that situation.  I can see why the police weren't called.  I mean, Annalise didn't call them either.

 

Back to calling the police, I used to watch a show called "Find Our Missing" and I was often surprised that, even when it was children who were missing, that sometimes it took hours for people to call the police and when it was an adult, sometimes the police weren't called for days, and this was when the person who went missing was very responsible.  

 

I had a feeling she was in on things when she left that tearful message because if a man said the things to me that Sam said to Annalise, I don't think I could forgive him.  

[mwcdeb8r]

I also have a hard time with the argument that the Scooby gang is trespassing. Annalise's home also doubles as their workplace. The gang has pulled many an all-nighter there, working on cases. They could easily make the argument that they were there for any number of work or school-related reasons.

 

that's why I've always had a hard time with the idea that this thriving, successful attorney works from her home. She couldn't rent space near the university? But I guess it is necessary for the storyline.

[ToukieSmith]

Or did she set the whole series of events in motion....dun dun duuuun

 

 

I think she has clearly manipulated Wes this season; has likely manipulated Nate (or they were working together all along); and intentionally brought Sam to an insane boil in their fight this evening.  Maybe she didn't expect the murder, but she expected him to be rattled and insane and do something stupid.

 

At the end of the day, I wouldn't be surprised if Analisse killed Lila having overheard her on the porch with Bonnie, but who knows.

 

Also, I'm expecting these guys to get A's in her class for the semester....unexpected bonus for murder!

 

It would not surprise me if Annalise killed Lila.  I don't believe that Sam killed Lila at this point. 

 

She engineered this so that the others would be accomplices to murder which would make them more likely to keep their mouths shut.  Why would she cover up Sam's murder if she knows that Wes is the murderer?  When Wes walked into the house and touched the trophy, all she needed to do was call the cops.  There is a reason she is working hard covering up a murder that she did not commit and I don't believe its because she loves her students.

[Primetimer]

We finally know whodunnit and why, but things aren't any clearer.

Read the story

[RollingCones]

The lighting drives me nuts. I can barely make out the characters and details sometimes because it is so dark. No one has any lights on in their home at night? Oh wait-Oliver's apt seems to always be well lit.

[emjohnson03]

It would not surprise me if Annalise killed Lila.  I don't believe that Sam killed Lila at this point. 

 

She engineered this so that the others would be accomplices to murder which would make them more likely to keep their mouths shut.  Why would she cover up Sam's murder if she knows that Wes is the murderer?  When Wes walked into the house and touched the trophy, all she needed to do was call the cops.  There is a reason she is working hard covering up a murder that she did not commit and I don't believe its because she loves her students.

I agree with this. I felt watching the episode that Annalise killed Lila and knew all about the affair beforehand and got rid of her. It was apparent in the first episode she knew Sam slept with Lila so why doesn't she take care of the problem? This whole arc was her master plan. Heck of master plan and of course all had to come together perfectly but why not. It just makes sense that it was her (in my mind) the whole time and she's just getting all the parts moving by using her students and staff as "helpers". It will be interesting to see what the second half brings because this has to come to a close. They can't dwell on the murder for too much longer and they need to "refresh". I was taken aback when Sam came back from the dead, that was odd and the most eye rolling moment. (besides many) How did they not see it?

 

Fun show still!

[LakeGal]

I spent the episode wondering how they explain the rug missing.  It did not make sense how they could take his body away in the rug and not think anyone would notice it was gone.  Then the final scene explained it all.  Annalise knew.  She would not report the rug missing to anyone.  But Bonnie, Usher and others might comment on it gone or changed.

 

I still hate Wes & Rebecca. 

[CaughtOnTape]

I don't find it a stretch to believe a bunch of kids who are already high strung and have been screwing each other since this show started would be led to believe covering it up and not calling the cops was their best option in that situation.  I don't think it had a thing to do with saving Rebecca, they all want to save their own asses.  Not to mention they all still wanted to be Annalise's #1 student.  Being there when her husband was killed would certainly put an end to that possibility.  

 

The twist at the end was gold.  I was shocked.

[SimoneS]

If Annalise killed Lila, then that would be an even crazier good twist. It can see how it is plausible. Lila could have found Annalise after Bonnie sent her away. Annalise and Lila have a confrontation. Annalise becomes enraged when Lila tells her that she is pregnant and Annalise kills her. Annalise's plan could have been get revenge on Sam by setting him up for the murder (explaining why she pushed for the voluntary DNA dragnet), only for her students to accidentally kill him instead. Well, to paraphrase one of my favorite lines from Dolores Clairborne," An accident, can be an unhappy woman's best friend." Now Annalise has to make sure that everyone thinks that Sam fled so that the authorities think that he killed Lila. Her plan falls apart if his body is discovered.

 

Annalise killing Lila would also explain why she asked Nate of all people to find out if Sam had an alibi. She already knew that he was with Lila and did not have an alibi, but she wanted Nate to know this. He lied to her about what he found out to get revenge on her, but she would have known that he was lying.

Edited November 21, 2014 by SimoneS

[truthaboutluv]

That cop will still be a factor that they ran into while carrying the body out of the house.

 

 

Well keep in mind the excuse they used at the time was that Annalise asked them to get rid of the rug. And now that we know Annalise knows exactly what they did, I think it's more than likely she'd just corroborate that.

 

As for them calling the police, there is a theory that minorities and people who come from lower income backgrounds tend to...not trust the police. Makayla, Wes, Rebcca, and Laurel (well the actress) are minorites, and two of them come from lower income families. It's not out of the realm of possibilites that they didn't trust the police to see it as self defense....and Rebecca, who's already on trial for murder, being there as well?  Nah

 

 

I don't buy that, well except yeah Rebecca the drug selling, already on trial for murder of another girl would definitely not want to call the cops. But I don't buy that it's fear of the cops or any of that stuff with the others.  Wes' actions were based on what they've been based on for weeks now - his annoying ass obsession with Rebecca and putting her above everything. He was more concerned that calling the cops would look bad ON HER, seeing as she's already on trial for murder not to mention all the other charges of drug dealing. I actually put Michaela's choices down to the same reason Connor likely went along with this stupid ass plan - shock and basically allowing three other people to convince them that this was the best course of action. As for Laurel, that girl is just a weirdo and as I noted above, for whatever reason has seemed to developed some weird bond with Wes where she apparently just agrees and goes along with whatever he asks and suggests. And well let us not forget the most obvious reason of all - this is a television show and hello, contrivances.

 

They each (minus Conner) had a hand in killing Sam and all of them were there trespassing. Not to mention, they were helping Rebecca get the hard drive she'd stolen (Moslty because they believed Sam really did kill Lyla and the proof was on the drive) and, like Laurel said, stealing someone's personal information like that is felony in 2014. Makayla pushed Sam down the stairs because he chased after Laurel, not to mention she brought the trophy (which Asher can attest to because she stole it from his house) to Annalise's. On top of all that, THEY WERE ALL TRESPASSING! Sam told them all to leave, even Makayla when she first got there, and they refused to. I think all of them taking part in the cover up had more to do with them not wanting to have a black mark on their record come graduation time, because every one of them would at least get into some trouble.

 

 

But they weren't all trespassing and they were not trying to help Rebecca still Sam's property. Sam LET Michaela into the house, so she didn't trespass and the other morons came because they thought Rebecca was in danger. Now I will give you that I could see a police investigator asking why they didn't, when they knew Rebecca was likely in danger of being hurt by Sam, call the police which I noted in my first post that that was just one of many stupid ass contrived decisions made in the episode.

 

But that being said, I refuse to believe that some fancy lawyer would not have been able to get Connor, Laurel and even Michaela off once they were all honest about what happened, considering the kinds of crimes and guilty people who have gotten off on technicalities in this world. And these people are supposed to be law students. Not to mention that people get deals all the time for turning state's evidence. The only people who were truly in shit in this episode were Wes and Rebecca. Rebecca singularly made the decision to come into the man's house, go to his private bedroom then bathroom and confiscate his laptop even while he kept telling her to get out. And well Wes bashed his skull in.

 

Until dumb, dumber and dumbest agreed to get rid of the body, Connor's defense was that he came for a study group, Wes told him he had to drive him to Annalise's because Rebecca was in danger because she was getting proof Sam murdered Lila. They got there and Sam jumped on Wes and Rebecca, then he ran after Laurel, Michaela accidentally shoved him over the balcony, then while they were figuring out what to do,  Sam started choking Rebecca and Wes smashed his skull. At no point was Connor ever physical with Sam, hurt anyone, attacked anyone, threatened anyone, etc. And with his full cooperation, dude would likely get probation.

 

Laurel, same story. She never really attacked Sam and instead just tried to run when it looked like he was coming at her because she had the thumb drive. Micheala could have some culpability because she was the one who moved and accidentally caused him to go over the balcony but again it was an accident because she felt threatened by him in that moment. And as for the head bashing that they worried a police would say "why when there were 5 of you guys versus one of him", it looked like to me the others never had a chance to try to get Sam off Rebecca before Wes bashed his head in which is all they had to say.

 

Yes, I can see them getting in some minor trouble for not calling the police which again I totally admit that was where the spiral of stupidity began, but the only people really culpable here was Rebecca and more so Wes, the one who bashed the guy's head in. So I still don't buy all these people truly throwing their futures away when they didn't have to. And some probation or even minor jail time is not a guarantee that one can no longer pursue a law career. So not buying that either.

 

Once again, I may have been more accepting of this if these people all liked each other on some level and were friends because friends have been known to do some really stupid things for each other. But they barely liked each other. Again, about the only thing I can maybe stomach is that Michaela and Connor in particular just panicked and allowed themselves to be talked into what was a very, very stupid decision and NOW they're screwed. Once they went along  with the cover up, they all became culpable. Well except for special snowflake Rebecca who was chilling at a motel while the other morons did the cover up.

Edited November 21, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[bantering]

I still can't stand Rebecca (it was her suggesting that it would be better if Asher's foot was in the blood or something that put me into hating her forever). Everyone else among the law student gang, including boring Laurel, grew on me.  

 

Why didn't Nate just get a warrant to search Sami's computer? Why have dumb-dumb Rebecca do it? I feel that Nate might be as stupid as the rest of them...

[Ohwell]

The only thing I care about is seeing Nate's naked back again.

[glitterpants]

I think I did a little dance at the end because the Annalise reveal was that awesome. The episode kind of dragged in places because we've already seen parts of the night over and over again, but other than that I enjoyed it and for some reason it even made Rebecca a lot more tolerable to me, even though she started it all when she recklessly decided to steal info from Sam's computer while he was right there. Realistically, the fact they all agree to cover up the murder seems ridiculous, but I'm willing to accept it on account of them panicking and also the fact this show has never been accurate in its depiction of all the legal stuff (or any stuff at all, really), so we could fanwank that in that bizarre HTGAWM-land their fears are more justified.

 

I think all of them taking part in the cover up had more to do with them not wanting to have a black mark on their record come graduation time, because every one of them would at least get into some trouble.

 

 

This too. 

Edited November 21, 2014 by glitterpants

[Gwen-Stacys]

I don't buy that, well except yeah Rebecca the drug selling, already on trial for murder of another girl would definitely not want to call the cops. But I don't buy that it's fear of the cops or any of that stuff with the others.  Wes' actions were based on what they've been based on for weeks now - his annoying ass obsession with Rebecca and putting her above everything. He was more concerned that calling the cops would look bad ON HER, seeing as she's already on trial for murder not to mention all the other charges of drug dealing. I actually put Michaela's choices down to the same reason Connor likely went along with this stupid ass plan - shock and basically allowing three other people to convince them that this was the best course of action. As for Laurel, that girl is just a weirdo and as I noted above, for whatever reason has seemed to developed some weird bond with Wes where she apparently just agrees and goes along with whatever he asks and suggests. And well let us not forget the most obvious reason of all - this is a television show and hello, contrivances.

 

I think there can be argument for at least Wes and Rebecca not having a lot of faith in the police. Wes grew up in a poorer area of Ohio and his main reason for wanting to help Rebecca in the beginning (and arguably his main reason for wanting to become an attorny) was that she was a poor girl who couldn't afford the type of attorny able to adequatly handle her case. He knew the justice system would roll her ass over and she would go to jail regardless of whether or not she did it. It would've been white-trash-drug-dealer-bartender VS virginal-universally loved-college-quaterback. She'd probably loose on appearences alone. And it's probably why she confessed in the first place. She knew she was screwed and was probably offered a deal. Growing up in a poorer area, Wes probably witnessed this happening to people a lot (I wonder if it's going to come out that something similar happened to someone in his past and it may have had a hand in his mother's suicide.) and was inspired to do something about it.

 

In that situation, I could see Wes (and even level headed Laurel) thinking that there was a big enough chance that they would get screwed in the long run. Conner and Machaela were convinced because it would ruin their futures regardless. You have to remember that these are people who have already proven that they will lie, double cross, cheat, steal, and even fuck to get what they want/need. They're selfish and already come with shady morals, it's not a giant leap for them to be convinced moreseo because they know having their face in a situation like that (and it would probably be a high profile case) would not be a good look for a future big money lawyer at a fancy law firm.

 

And speaking on Wes, he's been a puppet this entire season. He got close to Rebecca because Anna told him to. He convinced the others to burn Sam's body and chop it up into little pieces because Anna told him to. He even says the same thing at the end of the episode ("I understand", or something like that) that he said back in episode 3 or 4 when he promised to stay on Beck's like white on rice. They emphasized it. Wes is a puppet, not a puppeteer trying to save his lady love.

 

And his relationship with Anna is deliciously weird. They have mad chemistry.

 

But they weren't all trespassing and they were not trying to help Rebecca still Sam's property. Sam LET Michaela into the house, so she didn't trespass and the other morons came because they thought Rebecca was in danger. Now I will give you that I could see a police investigator asking why they didn't, when they knew Rebecca was likely in danger of being hurt by Sam, call the police which I noted in my first post that that was just one of many stupid ass contrived decisions made in the episode.

 

But that being said, I refuse to believe that some fancy lawyer would not have been able to get Connor, Laurel and even Michaela off once they were all honest about what happened, considering the kinds of crimes and guilty people who have gotten off on technicalities in this world. And these people are supposed to be law students. Not to mention that people get deals all the time for turning state's evidence. The only people who were truly in shit in this episode were Wes and Rebecca. Rebecca singularly made the decision to come into the man's house, go to his private bedroom then bathroom and confiscate his laptop even while he kept telling her to get out. And well Wes bashed his skull in.

 

Until dumb, dumber and dumbest agreed to get rid of the body, Connor's defense was that he came for a study group, Wes told him he had to drive him to Annalise's because Rebecca was in danger because she was getting proof Sam murdered Lila. They got there and Sam jumped on Wes and Rebecca, then he ran after Laurel, Michaela accidentally shoved him over the balcony, then while they were figuring out what to do,  Sam started choking Rebecca and Wes smashed his skull. At no point was Connor ever physical with Sam, hurt anyone, attacked anyone, threatened anyone, etc. And with his full cooperation, dude would likely get probation.

 

Laurel, same story. She never really attacked Sam and instead just tried to run when it looked like he was coming at her because she had the thumb drive. Micheala could have some culpability because she was the one who moved and accidentally caused him to go over the balcony but again it was an accident because she felt threatened by him in that moment. And as for the head bashing that they worried a police would say "why when there were 5 of you guys versus one of him", it looked like to me the others never had a chance to try to get Sam off Rebecca before Wes bashed his head in which is all they had to say.

 

Yes, I can see them getting in some minor trouble for not calling the police which again I totally admit that was where the spiral of stupidity began, but the only people really culpable here was Rebecca and more so Wes, the one who bashed the guy's head in. So I still don't buy all these people truly throwing their futures away when they didn't have to. And some probation or even minor jail time is not a guarantee that one can no longer pursue a law career. So not buying that either.

 

Once again, I may have been more accepting of this if these people all liked each other on some level and were friends because friends have been known to do some really stupid things for each other. But they barely liked each other. Again, about the only thing I can maybe stomach is that Michaela and Connor in particular just panicked and allowed themselves to be talked into what was a very, very stupid decision and NOW they're screwed. Once they went along  with the cover up, they all became culpable. Well except for special snowflake Rebecca who was chilling at a motel while the other morons did the cover up.

If it was after office hours, and like a I mentioned in my post or another one, there is enough evidence there to suggest that Sam, the owner of the house, might not have wanted them to be there in the first place. The second episode more than hinted that the Keating's goor is supposed to be locked after certain hours (Anna made a comment about Frank not locking up after he left again when Wes walked in on her and Nate.). So while Sam did open the door, Machaela basically pushed her way inside. He told her more than once to leave. Put on top of that, the fact that Anna packed a bag and left...Sam knew she wasn't coming back that night. More reason for Michaela not to be there. Or for any of them not to be there. And then, even if the house doubles as an office, the office is downstairs. Why were they all upstairs if they weren't in on Rebecca's plan. And how would they know the Scoobies had been upstairs? Sam was first pushed over the railing. His body would probably have injuries that would suggest a fall of some sort.

 

Connor got punched in the face by Sam...therefore one could prove that he was involved in the fight as well. Conner physically attempted to pull Sam off of Rebecca. So while he didn't have a hand at all in Sam's death, there's enough there to provide resonable doubt to his story. Not to mention, his reputation would be tarnished either way. What law firm could he go to after he graduated, provided the university didn't kick him out first? Like I said before, he probably wasn't thinking as clearly as he should've. Fear and the fact that he in the moment that they were not supposed to be there could've resulted in him acting irrationally. And once they all left the scene and came back, his window of oppurtunity.....I don't know, I just think it would look bad. Like "If you truly had nothing to do with it, why didn't you just call the police?" Not to mention, he's not the most....truthful of people in the first place. They'd murder his character and his word during the trial regardless. And then who's to say he didn't just roll over on his friends to save his own ass?

 

IDK, I think there's too many factors involved for me to believe that Conner would've been able to walk away from that situation completely unscathed. And I think that he knew that. (And now, his ex-boyfriend can testify that he may or may not have a drug problem. That could hint at his involvement with Rebecca being deeper than he let on.)

Why didn't Nate just get a warrant to search Sami's computer? Why have dumb-dumb Rebecca do it? I feel that Nate might be as stupid as the rest of them...

Because he was suspened (or fired) two or three episodes ago.

[bantering]

 

Because he was suspened (or fired) two or three episodes ago.

Even though he was suspended, don't police officers have off the record conversations with other people in their "office"? He's working off the record anyway by asking Rebecca to get the info on the disk drive. If I were him, I suppose I would have relayed info to someone else in the office to find a way to get a warrant. Well, I would have done anything else but ask Rebecca to do it anyway. Like everyone else, I'm baffled as to why she had to get the info right then and there -- find some other time to do it! 

Edited November 21, 2014 by bantering

[Dean Learner]

After a rewatch, I'm pretty sure Annalise called Frank either immedietly after the discovery of Sam's body or after confronting Wes in the office. Wes may not have told her who was involved, or Annalise needed confirmation of Wes's story hence Frank calling Laurel to find out where she is. Even when Laurel was selling her sob story, he asked her if that was in fact the actual big bad thing she wanted to share... because he already knew the truth and was seeing if she would spill.

 

Well played Anna and Frank. Well played.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Dean Learner

[roomtorome]

Glad I peeked in here before watching my DVR of the show - I just erased it.  Sounds awful but then I've thought the whole season was stupid and awful and full of creepy, unlikable characters.  Shows really might want to consider including at least one decent character in a show - this, like Scandal, has none (for me, anyway) and it just makes watching a bore.

 

I hope they all hang and there is a new show to take its place very soon….

[Gwen-Stacys]

Even though he was suspended, don't police officers have off the record conversations with other people in their "office"? He's working off the record anyway by asking Rebecca to get the info on the disk drive. If I were him, I suppose I would have relayed info to someone else in the office to find a way to get a warrant. Well, I would have done anything else but ask Rebecca to do it anyway. Like everyone else, I'm baffled as to why she had to get the info right then and there -- find some other time to do it! 

I thought it was because her trial was starting the next day? Maybe she thought Nate needed it pronto in order to gather the information needed to truly exonerate her. And I don't think he could have another officer gain a warrent for the Keating house. At that point, all they had was assumptions. Nate didn't even know Lilah was preggers until Anna told him, so he had no way of knowing that the finger would ever be pointed in Sam's direction. You have to have a pretty valid reason in order to get a warrent for someone's home.

[taragel]

The most contrived bit for me (and that's a hard call) was Sam's evil reveal speech. If he really truly felt that way about Annalise, why would he've married her/stayed with her? That lazy attempt to last-minute villainize (like REALLY villainize) him to justify our main characters murdering him was so cheap.

Also I'm disappointed Bonnie continues to be mostly useless?

And I read somewhere that it was revealed that Sam didn't kill Lila. Was it? I don't pay a ton of attention sometimes but I don't remember that.

[HoodlumSheep]

Loved the episode, even if 90% of it was what we've already seen. That ending was completely worth it.

Knew the puppy was an evil mastermind! Also, I still think laurel has the possibility of being involved somehow. She conned Frank with ease.

Farewell, Sam, you deliciously despicable man! I will miss your evilness gracing our screens.

[truthaboutluv]

He got close to Rebecca because Anna told him to.

 

 

Is that speculation and part of the theory that Wes has been Annalise's stooge since the beginning because to my recollection, Wes' creepy obsession for Rebecca started independent of Annalise. When he foolishly faked an ID to get in to see her in jail and had the phone in his possession and all the other stuff, Annalise wasn't even on that case. The University was still trying to get her to represent Griffin on the charges. I mean don't get me wrong, I can certainly see merit to the theory but I just don't think anything we were shown proves that Annalise told Wes to get close to Rebecca and she was the impetus for his being all on the annoying girl's ass.

Edited November 21, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Bobcatkitten]

I kept wondering why Annalise didn't notice the broken bedroom door and big blood stain on the wood. But then she was in on it sorta. 

 

But how about Bonnie, Asher and other guy I can't remember - wouldn't that be kind of obvious?

[bantering]

For some reason, Wes became more likeable to me when I realized he was doing Annalise's bidding rather than Rebecca's. Annalise might be kind of weird, but she seems to have some semblance of brains that Rebecca does not (uh, i think....for now).

Edited November 21, 2014 by bantering

[FormerMod-a1]

Wes must be some kind of psychopath.  He was just so calm about everything from the actual murder to the cover up.  Yes, he was following Annalise's instructions, but he had no reaction.  I also don't buy into why the other 3 would care enough about Wes and Rebecca to go with it all.  Up until the end, I thought this would be the episode that turned me off of the series for that very reason.  But that end reveal drew me back in. I'll watch when it returns.

 

I do agree that it's most likely Sam didn't kill Lila.  I have thought that since near the beginning with them hinting at it throughout.  It seems too obvious.  I would love for it to be Rebecca, or even the virgin boyfriend.