S01.E04: Let's Get To Scooping

[mommalode]

Do gay men have hot, casual sex all of the time? And they can't have a conservation without it leading to sex--or the promise of sex? Because all gay men are attracted to one another, right? That's what this show wants me to believe

I worked with a gay guy back in the 80's, and he told me that since men don't have the instinct to be discriminating about whom they sleep with like women do, gay men have sex as casually as they shake hands with someone. Don't know if that's true, or just him. :)

He did this thing to my ass that made my eyes water.

Now, I'm all for gays becoming mainstream, but I would find that just as offensive if they had a female saying it. I don't need TV sex forcibly shoved down my throat -- it's idiotic. I'm out of here with this show. It is removed from my DVR schedule.

[truthaboutluv]

Catching up in the morning again this week so sorry if any of this is repetitive. When Wes was talking to Laurel and that guy she's dating and he started talking about using the money raised to invest in some stock to make more, I really thought they were heading to his using the information the client's employee gave him about his cousin's company to buy stock and I think I might have very well been done at that point. Because I'm already still pissed about his nonsensical Rebecca obsession and was getting more and more annoyed that he was just holding onto major evidence in the case; if he'd added Insider Trading to his list of dumbass actions, I would have just lost it.

 

Honestly, as annoying as Michaela can be, I can't say I didn't understand her frustration about Wes. Glad to see Annalise took him off the case, Not that I think that will mean a damn thing to him. Meanwhile, please tell me again WHY I should give a flying crap about Rebecca? The girl actually had the audacity to say she wasn't giving Wes a thank you because "I don't really know yet how good that lady supposedly is." Like bitch, seriously? Your ass needs to be grateful you have anyone who isn't some overworked public defender who wouldn't give a shit about you and just tell you to take some plea deal where you'd likely spend 20-30 years in jail. 

 

So we got a little more insight into Connor or at least insight into his state of mind that night and apparently that state of mind is, he lost his damn mind. That said, listening him list all the possible evidence and witnesses, etc. I really don't see how these people think they're going to get away with this. He's right, Asher knows he and Michaela for whatever reason were at that house and he can testify to them avoiding and hiding away when he showed up (and I guess we now have our answer on where Asher was during all this), the finger prints and DNA that will be all over the crime scene, them going out of town or miles away to buy this random lighter fluid, etc. Yeah they might as well confess. Also, with the time stamp on Connor's activities, it really shows again how almost no time has passed for all this drama to have happened.

 

That being said, with the smoking gun reveal about Sam's having an affair with the dead girl (and yeah I totally saw that coming when Annalise just dismissed Wes about the phone), I'm starting to wonder if this wasn't some kind of self-defense on Rebecca's part. Like somehow Sam figured she's the one who knew about the affair and was trying to kill her or something but how Wes, Laurel, Michaela and Connor got involved I don't know.

 

I guess Wes and his obsession with Rebecca makes sense and maybe Laurel came over looking for Frank and Michaela and Connor clearly planned to meet at the house per Asher and so they all somehow got there at the same time and whatever happened, happened. It would also explain Frank's calling Laurel, probably wondering where she is. Now it would seem if this was all self-defense the smart thing to do would be to just go to the police but I think this show has shown many of these characters don't always do the smart thing. I will be pissed if this all comes down to Rebecca's life just because again I'm sorry she bugs and I don't give a crap about her and don't know why I should.

 

Last night's episode also made clear Nate's motives to me. As I suspected last week, I knew there was no way Nate would just let that investigation go when he got such compelling evidence that Sam may have possibly been involved with Lila. However, I now realize it makes perfect sense why he lied to Annalise. Annalise is a defense attorney and a damn good one and one who would sell out just about anyone to win her cases. Affair or not, who's to say she wouldn't do the same to get her husband off.

 

So it was very smart on his part to not alert her to the evidence they already have on Sam and therefore only make it possible for her to have enough time to come up with a good defense strategy for him. Speaking of Nate, I did laugh when he looked all pissed off that Sam was clearly thinking he might be trying to steal his car. I could just see the thought bubble in his head going, "oh because I'm black I must be trying to steal your car." But I was thinking, "um dude, you're dressed all in black, skulking around the person's car at night, anyone would think you were trying to steal it."

 

Well I see the wig was addressed in the show - I thought about all the comments about it on here and wondered how people reacted to seeing the show make it clear that she is wearing a wig. And that's the thing about serial shows. Sometimes you just have to give it time. Because the thing you complain about this week may just get addressed in the next episode. 

 

Do gay men have hot, casual sex all of the time? And they can't have a conservation without it leading to sex--or the promise of sex? Because all gay men are attracted to one another, right? That's what this show wants me to believe.

 

 

Well that's certainly what Queer As Folk told us and that got criticized as well, particularly for the portrayal of Brian. In my observation,  I do think it's a bit of a Catch-22. You either have shows that go the oversexed route like a Queer As Folk, Shameless, etc. and then you have ones where the gay couple is fairly neutered like say Cam and Mitchell on Modern Family.

 

But then you get people who complain on either side. There are people who will complain about the oversexed portrayals and I totally get that but then you get people who complain about the couples who show limited intimacy because they view it as the showrunners and network being afraid to really go there with their gay couples.

 

I remember when Glee had Blaine cheat on Kurt with some random guy he met on Facebook who he barely knew, some people on the discussion boards basically said that as gay guys themselves they thought that was the most believable thing that had happened with the pairing because young gay boys just discovering their sexuality will jump on just about anyone and go through a wild phase.

Edited October 17, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[AyeshaTheGreat]

While watching the wig and makeup come off, for a moment, I thought the last 9 words were going to be "You is kind. You is smart. You is important."  

 

I watch this show because of Viola but sometimes I really do not know what is going on.  And I barely care, but I do still watch.  

 

Lastly, I am not used to office buildings having windows that open (or at least open so wide and easy).

[Seelouis]

I want to like this show. I really do. And I can overlook a lot of the legal nonsense but there is an awful lot to have to overlook. That "deposition". Please. No lawyer for the suspects? Just the prosecutor and defense attorney in the room with them? I don't think so. And how in any way was what happened with Rebecca "coercion?" Leading her to a statement maybe, but coercing? No. And the prosecution just refusing to hand over the confession?

And Annaliese is a criminal lawyer who also represented the defendant in her divorce?

Also, does Annaliese hire 1Ls every year? If so, where are the ones from last year. Once they become second year students she doesn't want them anymore? Because a famous criminal lawyer would of course only want the most inexperienced law students working for her.

[LydiaMoon1]

Things I disliked:
Connor
So far, Conner is the gay version of the Stephen character from Season 1 of Scandal, and I'm underwhelmed by him for the same reason. All he ever does is use sex to get information.  So I'm supposed to believe that, for every case, Conner will conveniently find just the right person to give him exactly the info he needs to break the case because he's just so sexually potent that resistance is futile? Okay.

The overhyped 9 words
ITA that most of us were probably already suspicious of the husband, so it wasn't all that surprising.
 

Wes's obsession with helping Rebecca
They really haven't given me a plausible reason for him to be going the extra mile for this charmless, unfriendly, ungrateful girl.

The Clutter
This show has too many meh characters that do the same things.  I'd be fine with cutting 2 of the 5 law students and jettisoning both Associates.  If Anni needs an Investigator and a researcher for the office, I'd rather she hire Nate and the cute Asian IT guy.  I'd love for them to bring in Elizabeth Perkins as a regular to play Anni's friend.  (See below).

Things I liked:
Viola Davis
Annalise peeling off her layers in the final scene was great.
 

Elizabeth Perkins as The Client
She was fun.  They need to make her a regular.  The interaction between her and Anni made me realize that a light friendship is just what this show needs to balance the otherwise serious tone of the show.  Annalise needs a good friend to confide in and share some lighter moments.  Besides, if they ever need a crossover event, I'm sure that Elizabeth Perkin's character and Annalise would end up needing the services of Olivia Pope if they ever went off on a girlfriend weekend together.

The Murder Mystery (or 2)
I'm still intrigued by both murders, although I seem to be the only one who thinks Micheala is acting like she killed the husband.  Every time they flash back to the crime scene, I'm struck by how traumatized she's acting.  It makes me wonder if she was attacked by the husband and killed him while trying to fend off a sexual assault.

Edited October 17, 2014 by LydiaMoon1

[Chicago Redshirt]

I could buy that people in general do not think that they might want a lawyer at the criminal deposition. After all, despite 40+ years of Miranda rights being a fixture of television and movies, for some reason people don't invoke them. 

 

But the co-conspirators just had Pax confess to being involved and kill himself! That might have been a hint-and-a-half for them that there might be some evidence leading from Pax to them and that they would be suspects.

 

Anyway, I have no idea how a criminal case deposition might work, but I assume there would be no attorney for non-defendant deponents unless those deponents chose to hire one.

 

In terms of Annalise representing EP's character in her divorce, yeah, it's unusual for a lawyer to practice outside her area, and it makes little sense to me that million/billionaire would use her rather than an actually experienced divorce attorney. But it's not implausible.

It seems to me the premise of the show is that these 1Ls are working with her as part of How to Get Away With Murder 101, rather than real-working with her. Yeah, it's silly but I think we just have to eat that premise along with other stuff. 

[ShadowSixx]

I'm just loving Connor more and more and I do like how these episodes delve into each student's personality. Last week was Michaela and this week Connor. Using sex as a weapon is gonna get old for him as he can see that Oliver isn't going to tolerate it and good for him. I'm really hoping this is going to open up Connor's eyes in getting evidence another way than sex because it can backfire immediately as he seen when Pax committed suicide. Also what he almost did with Michaela and Aiden's relationship, he has to dial the sex back.

 

I'm happy that I got to learn more about Connor and Michaela because I love them as characters and Anni of course. Did love when she removed her make up and wig. Should have made her put on the doo rag and crack her knuckles lol.

 

I guess I'm not in the mind frame of having sex with someone so quickly like Oliver and Pax did with Connor. I don't understand unless you look like Mark Wahlberg or Tyson Beckford and you fall within those ranges in looks I'll understand dropping your panties faster than the speed of light and having thigh burn. Other than that I don't understand. I guess I don't know because I never done it.

 

Bonnie ugh she's so irritating. I really don't care much for Wes anymore and don't care for Rebecca at all.

[twoods]

Rebecca is a bitch. Yeah, Wes does deserve a thank you for having a great defense team get you out on bail when your dumbass admitted to murder. I guess it is true that nice guys are attracted to bitches. I just don't see why he's interested in her after the way he gets treated.

The Lauren/Frank angst is coming out of nowhere. A few prior scenes with them shoeing some interaction would be nice.

Love Oliver.

[loki567]

Didn't see the promo so the last nine words were pretty effective for me. 

 

I'm guessing Bonnie is having an affair with Annalise's husband and/or is involved in the coed's death. I think the whole, "don't trust your employees," storyline was foreshadowing.   

[helenamonster]

Yeah, I was a little confused about Bonnie suddenly knowing what Nate was doing in Sam's car, but I have two theories (besides the obvious "continuity error" one). 1) The police department is already in some hot water, with Nate admitting to footage being doctored and the other case where the officer on the scene was intoxicated so they switched the names or whatever. Bonnie probably knows Nate is on probation and just used the Lila Stangard murder as something for him to be investigating, knowing the police department wouldn't want to get too into it in case they got into even more trouble, or... 2) Bonnie knows Sam murdered Lila and let it slip in her earnestness to get the confession tape.

 

I really hope Sam's murder doesn't end up being in self-defense. My brain can't handle watching another gaggle of idiots cover up a self-defense murder. Just call the cops.

 

It's weird how Laurel and Frank are such an afterthought for the show, when they made a point of him calling her in the first episode. She's the one student (besides Asher, but he's tertiary anyway) that they haven't really devoted a lot of time to. I hope they have something in store for her, though, I still find myself liking her.

 

I definitely got another "come hither" vibe from Annalise to Wes in that scene at the end. I really hope they don't go there, though.

 

With now adding Asher to the mix of people/circumstances that could easily reveal the murder coverup, I wonder how or even if the Scooby Gang is going to get their asses out of this mess.

[ShadowSixx]

Next week's show might finally delve into Laurel's character (we can only pray) as we seen Michaela and Connor's story unfold so far and Wes is the main student they concentrate on anyway so it might be that and finally some flashbacks on this boring dead Frank/Laurel thing.

[Deanie87]

This show is giving me early Grey's flashbacks. Wes is Bambified George and Gay Alex Karev is just hot and secretly sensitive.

The wig hasn't bothered me as much as the eyelashes and Viola taking them off made it worse. They are ridiculously long and thick. It was like she was wrestling with bats.

The flashbacks still confuse me, though sometimes I'm a little tipsy by 10. Lord knows I need a cocktail or two to get through Shondaland Thursday!

[ShadowSixx]

As far as who murdered Sam, you think that the four of them could be covering for Anni? What if she killed him cause her saying to the cop, "We're all capable of terrible things," could be a little bit of foreshadowing and she calls her class How to Get Away with Murder. I mean suspects right now could be Rebecca, Bonnie, Anni, or one of the four or all four of them.

[KFC]

This show is giving me early Grey's flashbacks. Wes is Bambified George and Gay Alex Karev is just hot and secretly sensitive.

 

I have a pretty high tolerance for shenanigans on this show, but I'm out if Laurel says "pick me" to Frank. That, and if Bonnie has ghost-sex with Sam's carpet-rolled, charred body.

 

On second thought, I might still watch if Bonnie ghost-fucks charcoal Sam.

[ToukieSmith]

 

This show has too many meh characters that do the same things.  I'd be fine with cutting 2 of the 5 law students and jettisoning both Associates.  If Anni needs an Investigator and a researcher for the office, I'd rather she hire Nate and the cute Asian IT guy.  I'd love for them to bring in Elizabeth Perkins as a regular to play Anni's friend.  (See below).

I thought the same thing.  I like Oliver more than the law students and every show has to have an IT geek to help solve cases.  The scene between Annalise and Elizabeth's character was interesting and I instantly thought they should have been law partners.

Edited October 18, 2014 by ToukieSmith

[mikem]

I thought the Case of the Week was pretty underwhelming.  We barely got to know the 2 people who got arrested, and their entrampment was kind of boring.  I thought there was going to be some twist at the end, but there wasn't.  Elizabeth Perkins was fun, though.

 

There's been basically no forward movement on the details of Sam's murder since the pilot. 

[ribboninthesky1]

If I were Laurel, I wouldn't be giving Frank a second look.  Khan is yummy, smart, seemingly benevolent, and yeah, yummy.  Khan totally peeps Frank's jealousy, and I love it.  Shame that the actor isn't part of the regular cast.

 

Not sure why Bonnie would be sitting in her car, in the dark, to see Nate break into Sam's car, other than plot device.  Unless she intended to follow Sam.  Or possibly meet him somewhere.  I certainly didn't think Sam was actually going to a work meeting, or whatever he told Annalise.  

 

I'm still intrigued by both murders, although I seem to be the only one who thinks Micheala is acting like she killed the husband.  Every time they flash back to the crime scene, I'm struck by how traumatized she's acting.  It makes me wonder if she was attacked by the husband and killed him while trying to fend off a sexual assault.

 

I sincerely hope not, but I have to admit that I thought of this possibility as I watched this episode.

 

I'm meh on Connor, but I'm not sure why Oliver would be surprised/hurt that Connor slept with someone else.  Um, do you remember how you two met? WHY you two met?

 

Not sure if I'm supposed to care about Rebecca, but I don't.  I rarely care about the "I'm a sensitive soul with a tough exterior" types - it's supposed to be nuanced, but it mostly seems like an excuse to justify a character being an ass.  It's why I don't care about Connor's arc.

[helenamonster]

I think Bonnie was waiting outside the Keatings' house because she has one or two screws loose.

 

As for the Sam murder plot, I doubt we'll get any forward movement on it until the show has caught up with the present. This week was "seven weeks earlier," and I counted and seven weeks from now is the first Thursday after Thanksgiving, which makes sense because there's Christmas music on the radio. So I think each week until then will be one more week closer to the murder. I'm assuming there won't be a new episode on Thanksgiving, so the Thursday after that will be "one week earlier" and then will probably end with the actual murder that night. But up until then, I think we'll just be getting these little flashes of detail, and it'll kick into high gear once we catch up.

[truthaboutluv]

Not sure if I'm supposed to care about Rebecca, but I don't.  I rarely care about the "I'm a sensitive soul with a tough exterior" types - it's supposed to be nuanced, but it mostly seems like an excuse to justify a character being an ass.  It's why I don't care about Connor's arc.

 

 

I get that. I think for me the difference is that while I don't love Connor, because he is a main character, we get a little insight into him so you can sort of understand him more, for better or worse. With Rebecca, because she's only a supporting character that we really only see through Wes' eyes and her interactions with him have basically been lukewarm to downright bitchy and hostile, it makes it even harder to care about her and see any reason why we should.

[bantering]

I don't know if it was because of the Bastille song, but Wes did seem suddenly more interesting during the last 5 minutes of the show. Rebecca is still pretty rude though.

[Turkish]

So far my take on Bonnie is that she either previously had an affair with Sam or at the very least has a crush on him. She definitely plays the latter. In fact those brief scenes are the only time she isn't scowling at someone. For Sam's part, he's cordial but seems to barely acknowledge her as anything more than an employee of Annalise. I haven't ruled out the possibility that they could have had an affair in the past and are both just keeping their distance as we were told that Sam did have another affair at some point. I don't think she had anything to do with Lila's death though.  I would put more money on her finding out about what the law students are up to and/or about Sam's past with Lila and becoming a liability where those characters are concerned. I would just really like some more insight into her character besides just having her be an ice princess around the office to the new kids because I really like Liza Weil and know she is capable of more than that.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Turkish

[Chicago Redshirt]

Bonnie's car pulls up while Nate is in the midst of rooting through Sam's car. So she wasn't just lurking presumably.

[nenya]

Also, does Annaliese hire 1Ls every year? If so, where are the ones from last year. Once they become second year students she doesn't want them anymore? Because a famous criminal lawyer would of course only want the most inexperienced law students working for her.

 

My guess is that only the first years are naive enough to do these illegal things for her. By the time they get into the second year, and understand the law better, they stay far away. Or, if she has them skipping class all the time, and unable to study (how do they attend all the trials), maybe they just flunk out and never become second years.

 

(Obviously joking, and pretty sure the show doesn't see it this way.)

 

When we first saw Bonnie, I though for sure the husband was actually sneaking away to meet her, on the pretense of a dinner. But did Bonnie know of the affair? If she did, I'm pretty sure this isn't something that should have been disclosed to the police chief, even if they suspected it. It almost seemed like she sold out her boss.

[shapeshifter]

My daughter and I just discovered that we are both hate watching this show. Moths to flame. Can't turn away from the train wreck.

...I'm not sure why Oliver would be surprised/hurt that Connor slept with someone else.  Um, do you remember how you two met? WHY you two met?...

--and yet such a realistic emotional reaction in real life.

My guess is that only the first years are naive enough to do these illegal things for her. By the time they get into the second year, and understand the law better, they stay far away. Or, if she has them skipping class all the time, and unable to study (how do they attend all the trials), maybe they just flunk out and never become second years.

 

(Obviously joking, and pretty sure the show doesn't see it this way.)

If there weren't all the legal and other shenanigans that drive the plot, it could be that the first years do actually stay with her until they graduate/pass the bar, and then the next year she starts over with a new crop of first years.

[Haleth]

I thought Viola looked vulnerable and still very beautiful without the wig, the false eyelashes, or the make up.

 

Up to that point I was thinking that her eyelashes were very distracting.  (Does anyone wear false eyelashes on a daily basis?)  Then she stripped the false face off.  Very well done, Viola (and director).

[ribboninthesky1]

Bonnie's car pulls up while Nate is in the midst of rooting through Sam's car. So she wasn't just lurking presumably.

 

Thanks, I went back and watched that scene again. I missed that the first time.  It still makes me wonder why she was there. And now it also makes me wonder why she didn't tell Sam or Annalise.  I assumed she didn't say anything because she was stalking or possibly meeting Sam.  But the latter possibility doesn't explain why she wasn't shown telling Sam. Perhaps we'll see that later.

 

--and yet such a realistic emotional reaction in real life.

 

It's also realistic that Oliver wouldn't have reacted like that, because not all people react the same. Some would have seen that "relationship" for what it was.  Based on their prior scenes, I think the show wanted to show us how Connor has intimacy issues or whatever, and show him as wrong for what he did.  Which is fine, I guess, but at the same time, I also thought Oliver has attachment/codependency issues to assume they were a couple when Connor has never given him any reason to believe they were, and Oliver acknowledged, when they first slept together, that Connor was using him to get what he wanted (which was evidence and sex).  Ultimately, Connor ain't the only one with issues, though I do not expect to see the show explore Oliver in that way. He's a cipher for Connor.  

[djlynch]

Do gay men have hot, casual sex all of the time? And they can't have a conservation without it leading to sex--or the promise of sex? Because all gay men are attracted to one another, right? That's what this show wants me to believe.

 

It's not trying to make you believe anything about all gay men any more than Scandal is trying to make your believe anything about all presidents. Most of the single-episode characters don't have any kind of attraction specified. For all we know, there have been several interactions between gay characters that didn't end in sex because if they don't have sex or talk about a boyfriend/husband, you don't know that they're gay.

 

On the other hand, I'd say that gay men's culture is extremely OK with casual sex. It doesn't mean that every gay guy goes out and gets it on with virtual (or actual) strangers all the time, but there isn't really a lot of judgement around it as long as it isn't cheating. Also, the mating dance can be fairly short because we tend to not be very subtle when we are interested and we don't feel the need to establish the whole "I'm totally into you as a human being, and not just after your body" line of plausible deniability. Basically, I've had conversations that I knew were going to end in sex before a single word was actually said and pretty much started with "Your place or mine?", so Connor and Oliver or Connor and Pax going pretty quickly from "hello" to "take off your pants" doesn't seem unreasonable for me. The only difference is that it seems to happen with him a lot more than it does for me, but this is Shonda Rhimes, so of course the pretty people on her shows are going to be having way more sex than the rest of us.

[bantering]

Connor seems charming enough (or good enough at flirting) to not actually have to sleep with anyone to get info. That's where I'm a bit puzzled with him. He's sleeping with people to get info, but it seems like the men are willing to give him the info without him having to go that far. They find him pretty enough to hand over everything with just a flick of his eyelashes. So when he sleeps with someone, I figure he's doing it because he wants to. I do feel a bit sorry for the Asian guy in that regard -- Connor seems like he'll cheat either just because or as a result of commitment issues (I'm not sure which). I do think the guy playing Connor plays a breakdown well. I didn't expect to feel bad for him when he was freaking out, but something about the way he broke down did make me feel sorry for him.

Edited October 18, 2014 by bantering

[caracas1914]

Connor has sex with other men?  Shocking, Oliver!

 

All kidding aside, I thought Oliver's reaction was actually realistic in that he is falling for Connor.  Of course he knew the he and  Connor were not exclusive, of course he knew Connor used sex as a weapon/tool(no pun intended), hell he even alluded to that when talking to Connor in an earlier scene.  I think it was more that it was spelled out literally to him in that bugged phone call plus he was starting to feel something for Connor despite knowing how Connor is.

[Atony]

So when he sleeps with someone, I figure he's doing it because he wants to.

 

Yeah they did a good job establishing that in the pilot.  He could have gotten the email without sleeping with Oliver but he wanted to sleep with Oliver.   I think a lot of Connor's confidence comes from feeling attractive and thinking he can get any gay guy into bed, I mean he was so happy about bragging how he went after every hot guy in boarding school. And obviously every gay guy is different but there is a lot of casual sex to be found in the gay community, apps like grindr and scruff are popular for a reason.

 

 

 

I think it was more that it was spelled out literally to him in that bugged phone call plus he was starting to feel something for Connor despite knowing how Connor is.

 

Yeah I don't think Oliver was so much surprised as he realized that this relationship with Connor was going to keep hurting him and he wanted out.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Atony

[futurechemist]

I'm still having trouble liking most of the characters on the show, since they're all being jerks.  I think the only characters who aren't annoying me are Oliver (who I can relate to) and Asher, who's "bro-ness" is so over the top he's a caricature.  He actually said "I'm the most grown up grown-up out all of of us" when he was banging on the door.  I'm also okay with Bonnie, at least until the other shoe drops.  Basically I like the tertiary characters who haven't gotten much characterization yet.

 

I do find it interesting, and refreshing, that of the 5 law students, it's the straight white male that's been sidelined from the main plot.

[possibilities]

Bonnie didn't need to know whether or not the police were investigating Sam, she only needed to convince the desk clerk that she could convince the media that they were. So, whether or not she actually thought that's what Nate was doing, it made an effective story for her to use to get the tape she wanted.

 

On the other hand, of all the implausible things this show has asked me to believe, the one I've had the hardest time accepting has been that the confession would not be made available to the defense as a matter of course. Is that really a thing? It just seems so blatantly unfair, it's hard for me to swallow, even though I already think the system is blatantly unfair in real life (nevermind TV contrivances), in many significant ways.

Edited October 18, 2014 by possibilities

[helenamonster]

Up to that point I was thinking that her eyelashes were very distracting.  (Does anyone wear false eyelashes on a daily basis?)  Then she stripped the false face off.  Very well done, Viola (and director).

 

I went to high school with a girl who wore fake eyelashes every day. Idk if they were the super cheapy kind, or she didn't know how to apply them properly, or if she never took them off, but they looked awful and you could never not look at them when you were talking to her. I never found Annalise's nearly as distracting as hers.

[JAYJAY1979]

So I'm gathering this weeks episode was used to shed a little light on Connor, but all I got from this episode is that he will sleep with anyone just to get ahead.  Refreshing that it's a male instead of a female, but the episode offered nothing new in terms of making Connor more 3-D.  Sometimes little moments, or scenes, can shed light on a character as we witnessed with the last scene of Annalise.  Not only did she peel off her wig, eye lashes, etc.. she was peeling off the hard exterior she shows to the world.  Interesting that she trusts her husband to see her in that state, but the last nine words shows that she still has an extra guard up.  She is fascinating and I wish the focus was more on her then Wes and the other students.

 

For someone with a lot of focus, Wes is the weakest link to me.. even over frat boy Asher.  I loved Elizabeth Perkins and wish she would come back for more episodes.  She and Annalise provide a good contrast to one another.

 

I am interested to see more light shed on Laurel and even Asher in future episodes.  Plus, interested in more being shown of Bonnie and the other associate.

 

I would love the case of the week to be abandoned.. and to have multiple cases shown.. at different paces (i.e. one case starting, one climaxing, and one resolving with aftermath). 

 

I think 13 episode seasons are lazy.. you can sustain a 22 + episode season.. if you have multiple stories going on at the same time and different paces.

[PrincessTT]

I think 13 episode seasons are lazy.. you can sustain a 22 + episode season.. if you have multiple stories going on at the same time and different paces.

 

I think that Viola Davis agreed to the role on the condition that there would be no more than 15(?) episodes in the season.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

My big issue with Connor getting laid (again) is that they were in the copy room/lunch room at a very busy office, and they took off all their clothes. Who takes off all their clothes to have a quicky? At work? (Who puts their bare bum, or hands or whatever on a bare floor that many people walk on with their dirty shoes?) 

I've never worked in an office so I could be way off base here, but it didn't feel like that was a thing that would really happen. 

[KFC]

I think that Viola Davis agreed to the role on the condition that there would be no more than 15(?) episodes in the season.

 

Which, personally, I think is wonderful. There's a reason why cable tends to have the most critically lauded programming. 13 episodes lend themselves better to the kind of A.D.D. television that Shonda seems to excel at. I think if this show had 22 a season, I'd worry even more about the writers' ability to sustain a cohesive narrative. At least with a shorter season, they have to keep things contained, and there's less danger of things becoming even more unwieldy.

Edited October 18, 2014 by KFC

[truthaboutluv]

My big issue with Connor getting laid (again) is that they were in the copy room/lunch room at a very busy office, and they took off all their clothes. Who takes off all their clothes to have a quicky? At work? (Who puts their bare bum, or hands or whatever on a bare floor that many people walk on with their dirty shoes?)

 

 

I actually got the impression it was fairly late and most of the workers had gone home because when Connor first enters he makes some comment about the boss working the guy really hard. And when the guy's co-conspirators called after they were done and he was trying to tell Connor he didn't have to leave, Connor made some comment that only a boyfriend would be calling the guy at that time.

[Turkish]

My big issue with Connor getting laid (again) is that they were in the copy room/lunch room at a very busy office, and they took off all their clothes. Who takes off all their clothes to have a quicky? At work? (Who puts their bare bum, or hands or whatever on a bare floor that many people walk on with their dirty shoes?) 

I've never worked in an office so I could be way off base here, but it didn't feel like that was a thing that would really happen. 

I have chosen to just hand-wave that after years of watching doctors have sex all over the hospital on Grey's Anatomy and Scandal having the president and Olivia practically dry-humping in the oval office without it getting back to anyone. 

[bantering]

 

It's also realistic that Oliver wouldn't have reacted like that, because not all people react the same. Some would have seen that "relationship" for what it was.  Based on their prior scenes, I think the show wanted to show us how Connor has intimacy issues or whatever, and show him as wrong for what he did.  Which is fine, I guess, but at the same time, I also thought Oliver has attachment/codependency issues to assume they were a couple when Connor has never given him any reason to believe they were, and Oliver acknowledged, when they first slept together, that Connor was using him to get what he wanted (which was evidence and sex).  Ultimately, Connor ain't the only one with issues, though I do not expect to see the show explore Oliver in that way. He's a cipher for Connor.

 

I think it was realistic for the particular character of Oliver to react like that though -- I'm just basing this on the way he has carried himself during their prior conversations  though. By the same token, I feel as though Connor shouldn't be surprised either that Oliver might develop feelings for him.

Edited October 18, 2014 by bantering

[rubyred]

Still enjoying the crack-tasticness of this show, plot holes be damned. After reading the discussion above, I don't have anything to add that doesn't come from the shallow end (wardrobe):

- Wardrobe still needs to let out Viola's dresses 1/2 inch.

- Why did the sexually assertive 40-something have to be dressed in animal prints? Really? Can there be nothing subtle on this show?

[KnoxForPres]

I thought when Connor said "I actually like you" or similar, that stung. I thought the reaction was valid. It implied "I'm a ten and you're a five on a good day but for some fucking reason I can hang around you".

[ribboninthesky1]

I think it was realistic for the particular character of Oliver to react like that though -- I'm just basing this on the way he has carried himself during their prior conversations  though. By the same token, I feel as though Connor shouldn't be surprised either that Oliver might develop feelings for him.

 

Maybe I need to watch again, but I didn't get the sense that Connor was surprised that Oliver had feelings for him.  He said something like, "It's not like we're exclusive" and then surprised himself by realizing he liked Oliver.  For better or worse, Connor hasn't been shown to be anything but Connor with Oliver.  With all of the stuff crammed into episodes, we didn't get a chance to see their relationship develop beyond sex, Chinese takeout, and Oliver's hacking. 

 

So it's tough for me to feel bad for Oliver when Connor's been very straight forward about their sexual relationship.  I mean, when someone comes to my door and says, "Take off your clothes" with no regard to what *I* have to do or where I have to go (Connor clearly gave no fucks about him going to work), I'm thinking it's pretty obvious where their head is.  Oliver feels how he feels, yet I've never understood people who get invested in clearly lopsided relationships where the person shows you who they are from day one.  Paging Maya Angelou...    

 

Watching the episode, I remember thinking Oliver suspected something went down between the guy and Connor by the way he questioned him about it.  So it's not like he was blindsided. I felt like the show wanted me to see Oliver as a victim of Connor's issues, but all I saw was an adult who caught feelings for someone who wasn't invested the same way, and most importantly, never pretended to be. 

 

Plus, based on the show's timeline, they met 2.5 months prior to the present, and this episode had the flashbacks 7 weeks prior to the present.  So that's, what, three weeks - barely a month - in "dating" time? And Oliver's all wounded and throwing Connor out of his apartment? OK, show.

Edited October 18, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[KnoxForPres]

I cosign it all ribboninthesky1. On paper. In real life it doesn't always work so nice and easy. I think by nature people want (though they shouldn't) to think that they are the girl who will finally snag George Clooney.

So hats off to Amal, but there a hundred before her who were likely head over heels after three hours, much less three weeks. If Connor is supposed to be an irresistible hottie (though I don't find him that way) potential love interests will fall so hard and then only after having drinks with friends after the breakup realize indeed the writing always was on the wall.

Edited October 19, 2014 by KnoxForPres

[Princess Sparkle]

My big issue with Connor getting laid (again) is that they were in the copy room/lunch room at a very busy office, and they took off all their clothes. Who takes off all their clothes to have a quicky? At work? (Who puts their bare bum, or hands or whatever on a bare floor that many people walk on with their dirty shoes?)

I've never worked in an office so I could be way off base here, but it didn't feel like that was a thing that would really happen.

It definitely wasn't around lunch - when Connor came in, he said "She makes you work pretty late, huh?", and Pax answered with "Well, what else are you going to do on a Wednesday night?" My suspension if disbelief happened when Pax, in a high rise office building, not only got the window open (or that it was open), and could fling himself out. I've never been in a high rise where the windows actually opened.

I almost hate to admit this, but Asher might actually be my second favorite character behind Connor. "Holy crap, we make good spies!" actually made me laugh out loud. I feel like Matt Mcgorry knows the character is just supposed to be a bro charicature and is playing it up, and it's just hilarious to me.

Connor has been my favorite from the beginning, and this episode just cemented it. I had the feeling that even though he was being a bit of a jerk in the first episodes and seemed to be collected, he was going to be the one that unravelled the most. The actor did a great job this episode.

I wasn't offended by it, but I am legitimately shocked that "He did something to my ass that made my eyes water" made it past the censors three times.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Princess Sparkle

[helenamonster]

While I strongly dislike people like Asher in real life (and tbh, he's really not that much of a caricature; I've known wayyy too many guys like him that are totally being for real), I find him really entertaining on the show. They haven't gone overboard with him, just bring him up every once in awhile for a good laugh. He really works as comic relief against all the heavier subject matter.

[Neurochick]

What gets me about Rebecca is that without make up, she looks like a completely different person; at first I thought they switched actresses she looked so different.  

[bantering]

 

So it's tough for me to feel bad for Oliver when Connor's been very straight forward about their sexual relationship.  I mean, when someone comes to my door and says, "Take off your clothes" with no regard to what *I* have to do or where I have to go (Connor clearly gave no fucks about him going to work), I'm thinking it's pretty obvious where their head is.  Oliver feels how he feels, yet I've never understood people who get invested in clearly lopsided relationships where the person shows you who they are from day one.  Paging Maya Angelou...

Watching the episode, I remember thinking Oliver suspected something went down between the guy and Connor by the way he questioned him about it.  So it's not like he was blindsided. I felt like the show wanted me to see Oliver as a victim of Connor's issues, but all I saw was an adult who caught feelings for someone who wasn't invested the same way, and most importantly, never pretended to be.

 

 

 

I do think Connor has been upfront. But if Oliver realizes he isn't comfortable anymore with how things are going (or went), I think it's fair for him to say "Yeah, well, this doesn't suit me. This is over."  There's no point dragging this relationship out if he feels he can't handle the dynamics of it. I don't know if I think of Oliver as a victim -- just human? (and maybe sympathetically played by the Asian guy. There's not much going on writing-wise with Oliver, so I guess I would give credit to the actor for making Oliver seem not so much like a caricature).

 

I think Connor is effective at flirting (with gay guys -- not sure if his technique would work on women), but  I don't really think he's as hot as he thinks he is. He has a certain swagger and confidence, but I don't know if I would classify him as THAT hot.

Edited October 19, 2014 by bantering

[KFC]

I agree bantering. I read Oliver's anger as more of a reaction to Connor's defensiveness/realizing he didn't want to be part of this anymore.

 

It wasn't a particularly well written scene, but the way it was played, I interpreted it as Oliver disliking how flippant Connor was in response to Oliver's (clearly) wounded feelings. So to me it was Oliver realizing that when Connor wasn't going to give him a "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings... I thought we had an understanding/didn't realize we were veering towards exclusive/whatever" and added insult to injury with the "actually," he was over it and wanted Connor out. I thought the first scene indicated that Oliver wanted something couply but realized expecting it might have been presumptuous, and then in their confrontation, Oliver realized he wasn't going to get it, so he had to stop settling for the cuddlefucking as a substitute for an actual relationship.

[HoodlumSheep]

I don't know if it was because of the Bastille song, but Wes did seem suddenly more interesting during the last 5 minutes of the show. Rebecca is still pretty rude though.

His scene with Annaliese seemed to hint at the possibility of him using Rebecca in order to get more info on the case. Like he said, she kind of trusts him now, so it looks like he's going to take advantage of that. Regarding the flash-forwards: we now can't be sure whether he's protecting her due to his feelings for her, or for a more nefarious purpose.

The sketchiness adds some mystery to Wes' character.