S04.E03: Rocky Road

[Camera One]

And Hook really thinks he can blackmail Rumple, and get away with it? Btw, as someone else suggested in the episode thread, why didn't Rumple just mind-wipe him? The writers made Rumple so powerful that these kinds of arcs don't really make sense.

 

I can't believe the writers used the whole Emma-superpower thing, in front of Rumple of all people.  

 

At least Belle didn't declare, we don't need to use the dagger, I KNOW Rumple is telling the truth.

[Whodunnit]

Please show don't name that snow queen "Frost" or "Swan".

[Rumsy4]

At least Belle didn't declare, we don't need to use the dagger, I KNOW Rumple is telling the truth.

Lol. True. I almost felt sorry for her. Rumple's touching speech was so manipulative and revolting. Seriously, he's just using Belle as a perpetual alibi for everything ever.

[stealinghome]

It must be an emergency that affects someone else, but not necessarily her, since she couldn't get rid of the Ice Wall last week?  Though she did save herself by building that bridge.

It seems like Emma needs to be in a more "active" life or death situation for her magic to work. "Passive" situations like freezing to death, or needing to light a fire without life-or-death-danger occurring, seem to give her a much harder time.

[retrograde]

I was sadly pretty spoiled for this (zero self control over here) but still enjoyed watching it play out.

 

Liked

• Snow Queen! 
• Snow Queen's shoulder pads!
• "Dairy Queen"
• Hook doing a spot-on imitation of my parents trying to use their cell phones. Holding it at arm's length, wincing when he pushed the buttons... spooky.
• Regina snarking at Snow's decor.
• Henry dressing like an actual teenager for once.
• Rumple and Hook facing off. 
• Adventures with Elsa and Kristoff 
• The Knave! He didn't do much (and I doubt they'll do much with his character for awhile) but fun to have him around
• Hans was well cast
• I'm intrigued by Elsa's memory loss, Emma's connection to the Snow Queen, and how Rumple knows her. 

 

Disliked

• Belle stands by while Rumple is a total jerk to Emma
• Henry encouraging Regina's stupid plan.
• "Mongoose"? Is Regina 12?
• Robin declaring his love for Regina over his frozen wife's body. You stay classy, Robin.
• I appreciate Snow's efforts to be a more accessible mayor, but just telling everybody "Elsa isn't dangerous" without explaining the situation at all really isn't great communication.
• David is also the Sheriff? Did he give himself a promotion?
• Hopper's anvilicious "Let it go" line. Enough, show. Enough.
• So they're literally putting the Marian issue on ice for this half-season, huh? Oh, I guess it's for the best with so much else going on. But it feels like they're pushing the storyline off to one side more for convenience than good storytelling. 

Edited October 13, 2014 by retrograde

[Camera One]

Charming tried to get Snow to let him hold Snowflake while she officiated over the "fireside chat" but she refused and held the baby tighter. And, tbh, I don't think Emma is going to go near that situation even with a 10 ft pole and I don't blame her one single bit.

I think Archie was going to try and help, but Snow was all "I'm fiiine." She was very clearly refusing anyone's attempts to help her and that's where Archie chimed in. He was making a point and one that needed to be made because I don't think that baby will ever learn to walk otherwise.

 

Actually, this was an interesting parallel with Snow and Emma this episode even though they didn't share a scene.  Both of them were insisting on doing everything themselves and refusing help.  And Charming had to deal with both of them in that respect.  Good stuff.

[stealinghome]

David is also the Sheriff? Did he give himself a promotion?

I'm pretty sure Snow's curse brought him back as the sheriff, given that Emma was absent and the town needed a sheriff.

[Minneapple]

Lol. True. I almost felt sorry for her. Rumple's touching speech was so manipulative and revolting. Seriously, he's just using Belle as a perpetual alibi for everything ever.

I hope feeling they're building up to something where Belle finds out that Rumple is still up to his old shenanigans. Because DAMN, her current storyline where she buys his lies just makes her look like a complete idiot.

[Camera One]

This is the third time that in the third episode of an arc, someone ingests something hurtful:

 

2A: Third episode, "Lady of the Lake", Snow drinks the Cursed drink given by King George

3B: Third episode: "The Tower", Charming drinks Nightroot tea given by Zelena

4A: Third episode: "Rocky Road", Marion eats Ice Cream with sprinkles

 

This is clearly a secret message for us to visit Lake Tower Road.

[KAOS Agent]

I drove over 1200 miles this weekend, 600 of it today in the rain and a lot of wind, so I'm a little loopy and reserve the right to change my mind after some sleep, but I really, really liked this episode. I tuned out the Outlaw Queen stuff. Though I am laughing so hard that they literally iced Marian. Never change, show.

 

Who wrote this episode? It was full of some great stuff. Emma calling Rumpel's vault the "Secret Vault of Terror" had me rolling. I also loved Hook's non-explanation of his phone. He basically has a mobile phone that has one function: to call Emma. It's like those phones they give to little kids that can only call their parents.

 

Emma taking over the lock picking to David's surprise was fun. What exactly does he think a thief does? Did he not grasp the concept that Emma & Neal were a team of thieves? I'd also imagine Emma put her lock picking skills to work in her bail bonds gig. Dear David, your daughter has an interesting past. Maybe you should ask her about it sometime.

 

On Emma's superpower, I don't think Rumpel directly lied to Emma. He said things in a certain way that were true, but avoided mentioning that he knew what happened second hand. In this case, the Snow Queen was involved in the urning and Rumpel simply placed it somewhere safe.

 

And then there was Regina/Henry. He really is the truest stupid. Even if we pretend that all of Regina's past misdeeds were just literary license, what part of the fact that he grew up in a cursed town and his biological mother was severely traumatized by her parentless upbringing due to said curse did he miss? Also, Operation Mongoose? Oh yeah, Regina is really redeemed there. I just can't with this story line.

 

Oh and Snow. Put the baby down. Do you not trust David to take care of him while he's sitting right next to you? Snow is seriously messed up and David needs to have a chat with her about it. Otherwise Baby Snowflake is going to have serious mommy issues when he grows up.

[InsertWordHere]

This is the third time that in the third episode of an arc, someone ingests something hurtful:

 

2A: Third episode, "Lady of the Lake", Snow drinks the Cursed drink given by King George

3B: Third episode: "The Tower", Charming drinks Nightroot tea given by Zelena

4A: Third episode: "Rocky Road", Marion eats Ice Cream with sprinkles

 

This is clearly a secret message for us to visit Lake Tower Road.

That's brilliant.

 

Also, in 1.03 "Snow Falls," the trolls inhale the dark fairy dust and turn into insects, and in 3.03 "Quite a Common Fairy," I was forced to ingest the beginning of the painful Robin Hood/Regina romance (also, Tink knocks Regina out by blowing dust into her eyes but that's nothing to the previously mentioned pain against myself). Do those count?

 

So visit Common Lake Tower Falls Road.

[Camera One]

Who wrote this episode? 

 

I was curious as well, so I looked it up.  Writers were David H. Goodman and Jerome Schwartz.

 

David H. Goodman wrote five episodes in S1, three episodes in S2 and four episodes in S3.  Some good ones, some bad ones.

 

Interestingly, this was the first episode of the show for Jerome Schwartz.  He wrote two episodes of "Once Upon a Time in Wonderland" and was an "executive story editor" on that spinoff show as well.  Glad I didn't know this before watching the episode, or I might have been skeptical.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Camera One

[Bluerang1]

What a brilliant article title! Best line of the episode for sure, it outshined Archie's "Let it go"

[stealinghome]

I was curious as well, so I looked it up.  Writers were David H. Goodman and Jerome Schwartz.

David H. Goodman wrote five episodes in S1, three episodes in S2 and four episodes in S3.  Some good ones, some bad ones.

Goodman tends to write a good Charming, iirc. Probably why I enjoyed Daddy and Daughter Sheriffing tonight!

[Serena]

I was curious as well, so I looked it up.  Writers were David H. Goodman and Jerome Schwartz.

 

David H. Goodman wrote five episodes in S1, three episodes in S2 and four episodes in S3.  Some good ones, some bad ones.

 

Interestingly, this was the first episode of the show for Jerome Schwartz.  He wrote two episodes of "Once Upon a Time in Wonderland" and was an "executive story editor" on that spinoff show as well.  Glad I didn't know this before watching the episode, or I might have been skeptical.

When there are a couple of writers for an episode, you never know which one is responsible for the stuff you liked. I never particularly thought Goodman excelled at the funny stuff, so maybe the quips this episode were thanks to Schwartz. I agree that the humor was better than Espenson's stuff. For all people claim she's the best, I basically think she tries too hard with it and wants to write Whedon dialogue even when it doesn't fit (the BTVS characters were teenagers! From California!). Sometimes it works, but recently it doesn't more often than not.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Serena

[Camera One]

Yeah, last week, several lines felt much too colloquial to be natural coming out of the mouths of some of the characters.  This week, I didn't get that.  

 

I liked the nice blue light coming through the windows of the castle in the Arendelle scenes.  It really added to Elsa's look, plus with her hair up.  They're doing a good job of making that animated movie come to life.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Camera One

[kitticup]

Heeee's baaack. - that magnificent manipulative rat bastard, rumple. Never change. I Like rumple best when he is conniving and manipulating everyone. I aloso like it when others see through his manipulations and see how quickly he can change things to his advantage. Having rumple play off of Hook is great. They are foils/mirror images of each other. In the confrontation scene both men came off as dangerous. It was good. If belle was more empathetic, I might feel sorry for her but then I think about how little concern she has shown to Rumple's victims and I am over it.

Regina on the other hand. She needs to change. She needs to see herself clearly and stop trying to pretend she never did anything wrong. Regina is a villain and needs to work on herself not on her image/PR. Still I loved her reaction to Snow's blue bird painting. That office is hideous and I am not just talking about that painting.

I really like Kristoff and Sven. They are both awesome. I can totally see Charming being Kristoff's friend.

Hook and Elsa were great. I am so happy Hook finally has one Disney princess who might like him. Belle, Ariel, aurora, Mulan and to a lesser extent Snow aren't part of his fan club, and with reason (some more than others). I like that hook was marching off to danger and that Elsa approved.

I liked the Emma charming scenes.

The snow queen is excellent. My guess is that she got burned by her sister and tries to pit Elsa against Anna. I think that the Snow Queen is actually acting out of a very misguided sense of good. She is trying to protect Elsa.

I like what A&e have done this season. They have set up interesting story lines that I am excited to see play out.

Edited October 13, 2014 by kitticup

[twoods]

Another great episode. I'm intrigued if the snow queen is telling the truth and Anna put Elsa in the urn, and how does she know Emma? And Rumple is in the mix of all of this.

At least Hopper brought up why Snow is so ridiculous and always holding Neal. Makes sense..,

As does why Emma is pushing Hook away. Squee to Captain Swan! Their scene was perfect, from him grabbing her arm by his hook to him going for the kiss. Perfection (and why I haven't erased the episode from my DVR just yet).

I don't think it was weird of Robin professing his love to Regina in front of a frozen Marian. He was telling her why he thought the curse wasn't broken.

I love Kristoff- makes me miss Greek and the awesomeness of Cappie. I'm glad Scott is getting to shine.

[MaiLuna]

This season is being great so far. I'm loving it. Well, most of it.  

 

The flashbacks weren't that exciting but I love Elsa and Kristoff's relationship. I also liked Hook and Elsa. So Emma/Elsa, Emma/Hook, and Hook/Elsa work. If there was ever to be a threesome in this show, I'd pick them :P

 

I love all the focus on Emma and her issues in this episode. That last scene with Hook was beautiful. I love how JMo opened  up but she still said it in a closed-off way, if that makes sense.

Though I have to say it was pretty stupid how her and David kept turning their backs on Will. And Hook's "threat" to Rumpel will come back and bite him in the ass.

 

Regina...you were written as a villain because you acted like one. It's simple as that. And yeah, Henry's right, you should  clean out your vault and return all the hearts you have there.

 

Snow...I loved how Emma was mentioned. But, I wish she wouldn't treat Neal as a replacement baby. If she missed out on Emma, she should be spending more time with HER too, not just baby Neal.

 

I love the Snow Queen and I can't wait to find out her plan and how she knows Emma.

Edited October 13, 2014 by MaiLuna

[Trini]

I hope feeling they're building up to something where Belle finds out that Rumple is still up to his old shenanigans. Because DAMN, her current storyline where she buys his lies just makes her look like a complete idiot.

Current storyline? How about almost all her storylines with Rumple. She's supposed to be the smart princess! Gah

 

 

• Hopper's anvilicious "Let it go" line. Enough, show. Enough.

I figured they'd drop the phrase at some point, so I'm actually glad they did it in episode 3, so I don't have to worry about it anymore.

[AudienceofOne]

Man Hook is the saving grace of this show. Not that this wasn't a good episode - it was a very good episode - but Hook just elevates it even more. He should be in every scene cracking jokes and struggling with modern technology. Hopefully this is the end of the Emma angst because Captain Swan 4EVA (and I don't care that that makes me sound 12).

 

The Knave was the best thing about the terrible Once Upon a Time in Wonderland so I was glad to finally see him pop up.

 

(although, I"m bummed that his "true love" has apparently disappeared.)

 

 

I hated that performance and that character. I'd gratefully forgotten her existence.

 

Wow, so did Robin just declare that he loves Regina, right in front of his wife's frozen body?

 

Tacky, hey? And when she gets unfrozen we can have the "I could hear everything"! conversation. That'll be fun.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but plan to kill Marian aside (I know...), Regina has shown 500% more grace through this entire situation than Robin has. She may, actually, deserve better than him.

 

 

What really struck me was that the Regina we saw in episode 1 was a completely different characterisation. This Regina is still deluded but no one near the rampaging sociopath we saw only a few episodes ago. If this had been her characterisation in ep1, it would have been a big improvement.

[dr pepper]

Hard to look at the Snow Queen without thinking, hey she used to be able to do all that with nanites.

[Writing Wrongs]

I have to give it to the show for having the Snow Queen emerge from the urn. The thought hadn't even crossed my mind that someone would be in it already.

[Mari]

I also want to echo someone else's post from earlier that seeing Snow dealing with the trauma of being separated from Emma as a baby, so much so that she can't even let David hold their son, and Emma bringing up the pain of losing Graham, highlights for me how wrong the Regina/Snow, Regina/Emma friendships are. I will never buy Regina's redemption. But in general I can see a redemption of her working in that she could do good things and not always be a villain. But I don't think I can ever buy Snow or Emma getting past what Regina did to them to be anything but politely cordial to Regina. Not this crap where they give Regina pep talks and root for her and devote time to making sure Regina gets a happy ending. It rings so horribly false.

No, no it doesn't ring true--and it's especially glaring in an episode where they actually had Snow and Emma having emotional fall out from things Regina did (the curse taking away baby Emma, and killing Graham). 

 

The writers are delusional.  It's the only explanation--especially after interviews where they say things like "Emma really values Regina's friendship and is going to have to work so Regina trusts her again, because Emma ruined Regina's happiness."

 

Um . . . Huh?  Snow can't put her baby down because evil people keep trying to kill or take them (looking at you, Regina), and Emma is afraid to care about a man because they die (looking at you, Regina), and Regina shouldn't trust Emma?  What?

[myril]

Good episode. Pacing worked, some gems in the dialogue. Have a feeling it could be worth while to watch it again for details.

 

Much enjoyed the flashback, Elsa and Kristoff is fun to watch, both actors doing a great job, and of course Sven - the best. Hans was a great cast as well. And Elsa and the Snow Queen, Georgina Haig and Elizabeth Mitchell, were highlights, in the fairybacks as in present time Storybrooke.

 

Present time Storybrooke worked well enough with Emma, Hook, Elsa, Charming, Snow Queen, even Snow's little side story was okay, but couldn't care less about Regina and her stories.

 

Leroy is like way too many people in our world: Jumps to conclusions, demands somebody's head without much thought, asks later (if at all). Why bother to check facts before stiring up an angry crowd. Kinda topical seeing all the mob mentality emerging online. It's not the first time, that Leroy is quick with judgment and demand for action. But Granny of all people joining into Leroy's witch hunt? Has the second curse destroyed her memories of who she once has been and how a town mob went after her granddaughter? But right, when it's family it's different. (I so wish Red were around, would call her out on it and get some sense back into Granny). At least she could have been a tad more reluctant, going with the crowd but not pushing it.

 

Henry saying to Regina: "You have to change the book because it's wrong about you." Sure, after massacring a village and sending a bunch of kids into possible death it was all some big misunderstanding to call Regina a villain.  Okay, he is a teenager and Regina's son and seems to be in some things taking after his name patron and grandfather Henry sr., so Henry jr. thinks that is her best idea ever. Whatever. Can we fast forward this whole story? I don't care about Henry - Regina bonding (but I don't care much about Henry anyway since he turned out to be Rumple's grandson nor do I care anymore about self-pitying Regina). I think there is pretty much only two things that can makes sense in the end, either there it no author, the book has been written by the stories, fairy tale life itself, or the author tells Regina, he  only recorded what they were doing and he can't change anything for present or future. Cheesy variation: It's Henry or some other kid and it's an imitation of Michael Ende's Neverending Story or Funke's Inkeart (liked the latter a lot more than Neverending Story). I don't expect any big surprising twist here, which could be okay, the journey is often enough so much more important, but I don't trust them to write and interesting journey with this.

 

Operation Mongoose - very funny. Did Regina read Marvel comics (there is a supervillian Mongoose in the Marvel universe)? Or is it just because mongoose are said to go into fights with cobras? Kiplings Rikki-Tikki-Tavi? And then there is the famouse mongoose bmx bike. Aside other associations of the more nasty kind.

 

As a side note: Poor Jared is so struggling to not let his voice crack.

 

Robin confessing  that he loves Regina to Regina (it's pretty clear he means her, though he only says, he is in love with someone else, someone different from Marian, just saying). Being just frozen guess Marian heard it, if she didn't already knew it, guessed it. Well done, Robin, make your wife feel so much better. Chance is, Marian will be saved, by Regina of course, but will let Robin go in the end, and I hope she will take over the Merry Men as leader and be a happy single mother with plenty of friends in town (though the happy single is more wishful thinking on my side than expectation, can't have happy endings without romance, can we).

 

I just still don't feel any sizzling or deep going chemistry between Regina and Robin, the actors try for sure to sell it, but I don't feel it, so have a really, really hard time to buy into any soul mate concept between the characters. I find even RumBelle more believable and interesting than Regina and Robin (and I don't fancy RumBelle at all).

 

As long as Emma is still allowed to call out Regina for her crap and self-pity I can live with Emma trying to work on a happy ending even for Regina. Wouldn't call that being friends, but a few people do that, not dwell on past evil done IF someone changes in the present.

 

Loved the Elsa-Hook-talk in the woods. Finally someone understanding Emma. Thanks. I hope Emma moves to Arendelle when all the Storybrooke saving is done someday, and there opens some business with Hook. Screw the Enchanted Forest, let her little brother be king there and have Emma finally a great time in life.

 

Intrigued by the Snow Queen. Just hope they don't mess her up like Zelena.

 

If anyone is interested:
The ancient futhark runes on the urn:
Tiwaz (in this form more younger futhark, not elder),  t/d, named after the god Tyr, the god of justice, but also equatet with Roman Mars, the god of war, so with glory, heroic glory
Isaz - ice, isolate, or i
Thurisaz or Thurs - giant, or th
Isaz (again)
Laguz - water, lake, or L

 

Loose interpretation: The power (glory) to ice/freeze/isolate the giant of ice (the powerful, magical being) in (the form of a kind of) water.

 

By the way: Is there any Tumblr or blog already listening all the Frozen movie references, nods, copied moments? I haven't seen the movie a hundred times (but admit, more than once), but guess there is more than I noticed, and I noticed plenty alone in this episode.

Edited October 13, 2014 by katusch

[shapeshifter]

It seems like Emma needs to be in a more "active" life or death situation for her magic to work. "Passive" situations like freezing to death, or needing to light a fire without life-or-death-danger occurring, seem to give her a much harder time.

I'm guessing it will be that she has more power when it involves saving a True Loved one.

Man Hook is the saving grace of this show. Not that this wasn't a good episode - it was a very good episode - but Hook just elevates it even more. He should be in every scene cracking jokes and struggling with modern technology....

He's more charming than Charming.

Oh and Snow. Put the baby down. Do you not trust David to take care of him while he's sitting right next to you? Snow is seriously messed up and David needs to have a chat with her about it. Otherwise Baby Snowflake is going to have serious mommy issues when he grows up.

To be fair, wasn't David right by her side when the baby got snatched right after it was born? Anyway, this whole plot point bugs me personally because I used to hear it a lot until my oldest--who always swallowed anything within reach: dead flies, jewelry, leaves--finally started walking at 15 months--a little later than typical because she had severely pronated feet. I used to hear, "If you'd put her down, she'd learn to walk." She's 35 now, and I had 2 others who walked earlier, but it still makes me mad when people who don't have all the facts think they can tell others how to parent. </end rant> Anyway, I think Dr. Hopper's lines and the direction could have been a bit better, though I'm not sure exactly how. Maybe he could have tried closing the stroller and not known how, so offered to hold the baby instead. Then Snow would have freaked, and he would have given her his smiley speech. But even then, hey, it's Storybrooke. It could have been an evil Dairy Queen impersonating Dr. Hopper who wanted to steal the innocent baby for a spell--wouldn't be the first time. Edited October 13, 2014 by shapeshifter

[ShadowFacts]

 

Leroy is like way too many people in our world: Jumps to conclusions, demands somebody's head without much thought, asks later (if at all). Why bother to check facts before stiring up an angry crowd. Kinda topical seeing all the mob mentality emerging online. It's not the first time, that Leroy is quick with judgment and demand for action.

 

Yes, he needs to put a sock in it.  And Granny loses points in my book, too.  This is officially overdone now.  Along with Emma's "superpower" and references to her savior status.  Enough with all of that already. 

 

Regina and Henry can stay off my screen indefinitely, but now that it's come up, I think the issue of the vault of hearts needs addressing.  Emma's budding powers can be used if necessary, but that has got to be emptied out, resolved, and made into a museum or something.  Regina wants to not be treated as a villain and get a happy ending?  Put the hearts back already. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Henry immediately knew Regina was after something and asked her point blank, I was relieved that he had finally grown a brain. Then he had to go and ruin it all by agreeing to help her find the author. Ugh.

 

“I was written as a villain.”  That Henry/Regina scene was repulsive.  Out and out repulsive.  It’s one thing to claim that Regina has changed, it’s a whole ‘nother thing to claim she wasn’t one.  You kill villages, abuse children, and rape people, you’re not being “written” as a villain.  You were one.   Then, sending Henry “you’re not a villain” to the vault, where he could retrieve your magic box, from where it was surrounded by, well, the fruits of your villainy?  Yeah.

This is another example of Regina's belief that she is always the victim. She never cares to remember that she was the perpetrator in most of thte situations that SHE created. As for the book, STFU. If by "written as a villain," you mean "had many of my heinous actions documented so that people could see what a complete dick I am," then yes, you were indeed written as a villain.

 

I love Kristoff. I would have been willing to keep Hans around just to watch the two of them snark at each other.

 

Isn't everyone who was brought to Storybrooke by the original curse from the Enchanted Forest? If that's the case, why would Robin have to explain to the Dairy Queen that the only ice flavors they had back where they are from are mud and dirt? Wouldn't she have presumably been there too?

 

It must be an emergency that affects someone else, but not necessarily her, since she couldn't get rid of the Ice Wall last week?  Though she did save herself by building that bridge.

It seems like Emma needs to be in a more "active" life or death situation for her magic to work. "Passive" situations like freezing to death, or needing to light a fire without life-or-death-danger occurring, seem to give her a much harder time.

I think it's that when Emma is sitting around practicing, she is trying too hard and overthinking. In the situations where she has made it work easily like this week, it's because she is using her instincts and the magic comes more easily that way. She isn't thinking and analyzing in those situations - she is just doing what comes naturally.

[Curio]

Regina: Want to know who the author of the book is? Look in a damn mirror. (A mirror that isn't Sydney, anyways.)

 

I liked the Snow Queen a lot more than I thought I would, but we also just came off a half season of scene-chewing Zelena, so I'll take anything at this point.
 
If Belle doesn't divorce Rumple after what he's been doing, I don't even know. Can we just get rid of her character for good and keep Elsa instead?
 

I liked Will Scarlet and I'm hoping we will find out the reason for the fallout between Robin and Will.

They showed their falling out in the Wonderland series. Will joined Robin and they Merry Men on a mission to steal from Maleficent's castle, but Robin got pissed when he found out Will took a valuable item to use for himself.

[NotBothered]

I'm really sad that it looks like they are going to completely butcher the book storyline.  I've been looking forward to eventually finding out about the book since they show started, and this is clearly one of those cases that you can tell the writers had NO plan.  I hope they find the author and they tell Regina to take a a look at her choices.  "I write what happens...not the other way around.  You were written as a villain because you did villainous things."

 

I also really don't see how last week's deleted scene with Henry in Gold's shop fits in with all of this.  In the stuff we're seeing Henry has suddenly become Regina's biggest cheerleader (Stockholm syndrome anyone?), but he's also begging Gold to erase all of his memories of her because he's so miserable?  Does. not. compute.  Maybe it's because Jared is actually getting worse instead of better at this whole acting thing.  That Operation Mongoose scene was like watching a bad junior high musical.  (I don't like to bash the children, and he doesn't bother me as much as he seems to bug most people...but it was just BAD).

 

Maybe it's because I really never shipped ScarletQueen (I actually disliked all the canon pairings on that show...it was like a chemistry black hole), but I would not at all be bothered by them hand-waving all of OUATiW away.  I would vastly prefer them actually using Will in an organic way (because he is great and I hope he stays), instead of shoehorning in a bunch of stuff from a show almost no one watched.  

[Mari]

Operation Mongoose - very funny. Did Regina read Marvel comics (there is a supervillian Mongoose in the Marvel universe)? Or is it just because mongoose are said to go into fights with cobras? Kiplings Rikki-Tikki-Tavi? And then there is the famouse mongoose bmx bike. Aside other associations of the more nasty kind.

 

If anyone is interested:

The ancient furthark runes on the urn:

Tiwaz (in this form more younger furthark, not elder),  t/d, named after the god Tyr, the god of justice, but also equatet with Roman Mars, the god of war, so with glory, heroic glory

Isaz - ice, isolate, or i

Thurisaz or Thurs - giant, or th

Isaz (again)

Laguz - water, lake, or L

 

Loose interpretation: The power (glory) to ice/freeze/isolate the giant of ice (the powerful, magical being) in (the form of a kind of) water.

 

I actually took the reference to be a direct slap at the original "Operation Cobra", which was Henry and Emma undoing the curse and restoring people's original lives and memories.  Based on the context--Henry and Regina both claiming that she was misunderstood and the writer didn't know what he/she was talking about. 

 

As for the rune information--thanks, katusch, I appreciate you sharing that.   I was interested--and a little impressed that the show went to the trouble of putting things that fit the scenario on the urn, considering how they half-do so much other stuff.

[Crimson Belle]

Well, the show is at least convincing me Robin and Regina are soulmates, or at least would if I thought either had a soul.  Both have the self awareness of an amoeba, and the moral depth of a mud puddle.

[tv echo]

I'm glad they didn't drag out the whole framing Elsa for freezing Marian plot (the way they did when Regina/Gold framed Mary Margaret for Katherine's 'death').  Elsa seems much less powerful in OUAT than she was in Frozen.

 

Emma's reason for pushing Hook away made sense.  I hope their reconciliation doesn't mean that Hook is doomed in a future episode.  I like that Hook knew Gold well enough to guess that Gold was lying about the dagger.

 

Elizabeth Mitchell surprised me.  Her usual remote style of acting (which made her terrible in some other roles) actually fit the persona of the Snow Queen - coldly detached from everyone else.  The Snow Queen's back story likely includes her being put in the urn by her sister (Elsa's mother) because the SQ  was evil and endangered Arendelle, but her sister couldn't kill her outright.  This would spur the SQ to seek revenge by pitting her dead sister's two daughters, Elsa and Anna, against each other. 

 

I therefore wouldn't be surprised if Anna really was the one who put Elsa in the urn - but it was probably done in desperation and to save Elsa from herself.  I can see the SQ corrupting or bespelling Elsa to use her powers for selfish reasons in Arendelle to the point where Elsa is about to do something that Anna knows she will regret.  So she puts Elsa in the urn and then sets out to find a way to save Elsa.  

 

So who's been ruling Arendelle while Elsa was trapped in the urn?  And if Elsa can magically adorn herself in that blue dress, why can't she magically change her clothes?

Edited October 13, 2014 by tv echo

[Guest Accused Dingo]

It makes sense why MM is so attached to baby Neal (besides the usual reasons): She gave baby Emma to her husband and he put het in a cubbard and turned his back for five seconds.....and neither saw her for thirty years. I would be kinds grabby of next baby too. Who knows what portals ti hell baby Neal will fall into if she lets him out of her sight.....for just one minute.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[Dani-Ellie]

Snow told Charming to put Emma in the wardrobe, though. It's not like he pried the baby out of her hands. She gave her to him after kissing her goodbye. They both knew that putting her in that wardrobe would mean they wouldn't see her until she was grown, so Snow can't exactly blame Charming for that.

[DeLurker]

I love Regina , despite the zillion problems they have writing for her character.  And I loved her in more casual attire.  The heart extraction makes sense in the odd OUaTverse, the scene with Robin was a bit much.

 

 

Tinkerbelle told Regina that Robin was her one true love

Whatever happened to Tinke?  I rather liked her.

 

 

Heeee's baaack. - that magnificent manipulative rat bastard, rumple. Never change. I Like rumple best when he is conniving and manipulating everyone.

Me too.  I loved the scene at the end where he met up with the Dairy Queen in the forest.  It was nicely played between the two.  And I love that he is out in the forest in the middle of the night wearing an all black suit.

 

 

I hope feeling they're building up to something where Belle finds out that Rumple is still up to his old shenanigans.

I don't.  She is an idiot but the actress is so not strong enough for a real storyline and this would just put her on my screen more.  I liked her and Ariel together - they were cute, charming and with more gumption than sense.  That may not be in line with Beauty and the Beast Belle, but it was the best use of her I've seen and the only time I thought I would like to see more of her.

 

Wonder when Snowflake will get hit with a magical aging curse?  Cause a babe, even a cutie pie, just isn't all that interesting in real time.  They could hit Henry, Roland & Snowflake - that would allow them to write Henry like he's not 12 anymore.

[ImogenLeFay]

I loved most of the episode - Emma-Charming, Elsa-Hook, Elsa-Kristoff, Emma-Hook, and everything Elizabeth Mitchell. Hated the town's people attitude and mob mentality, and anything Robin Hood.

 

The worst thing was of course, the Regina-Henry scene.

I'm beyond done with the Regina white-washing (though to be honest, I've been fed up with it in season 2), and I'm by now really disgusted by Henry. Okay, I've been since he told Regina he never should have brought Emma to Storybrooke. It's one thing to forgive (or rather forget) all the abuse he received from her, but he's also ignoring everything she's done to everybody else - including Emma. And now he's completely on her side. She wasn't a villain, oh no, the book just misrepresented her by faithfully documenting everything she did. ...wait...

 

But I realized, there was some truth in their conversation, when Regina asked if the plan was insane and Henry said it was the best plan she ever had. Well, yes, it is. That's probably the best plan Regina ever had. Sure, still insane and ridiculous and doomed to failure, but for Regina it still qualifies for the best-of.

[angelwoody]

I continue to be depressed by the character assassination of Snow White. It's just so sad that the writers apparently have lost all interest in her and she is relegated to being a brainless, clueless, hideously attired human baby bjorn.

1. Brainless: The giant ice wall was #4 on her agenda? Really? Way to read a room Snow. What the hell were items 1-3?

2. Clueless: Wrestling with the stroller. I personally hate strollers and baby gates and think they were designed by sadists, but if it's that difficult, ask for help. Or strap the baby into his car seat, where he is safer anyway than on the street. I know it's supposed to show her "issues" but really she just looks stupid and sad.

3. Hideously Attired: What in the hell did Ginnifer Goodwin ever do to the wardrobe people? Her post-partum clothes have been so incredibly ugly that it can't be an accident. Do people in the entertainment industry really hate non-thin women this much or is it that they have no frame of reference for dressing non-waifs because no one hires them? Snow just had a baby, she did not just turn 75. Why can't she be in leggings and long tops? Or cute shift dresses? There are plenty of women carrying extra weight who manage to move about in the world without looking like they're dressed for satan's garden party.

4. Why does Snow's storyline have to be that she's a near-hysterically fearful new mother? It wouldn't be enough to just be a new mother trying to balance motherhood and managing a magical town full of heroes, villains and the occasional angry mob? That could have been a sweet, comedic storyline without diminishing Snows character to the point that she bears no resemblance to her fabulous former self.

Edited October 13, 2014 by angelwoody

[HeimrArnadalr]

Arendelle Castle is beautiful, and looked almost exactly like the one in the movie. Although there's no clock over the main gate.

 

The Arendelle General seemed to be dressed like the Duke of Weselton. Rather an odd choice of attire.

 

I was surprised that Archie would be the first one to say 'Let it Go', and that they managed to wait until episode 3.

 

Is this it for Hans? I would't think this show would be allowed to kill such a major character from Frozen.

 

I wonder what was the purpose of that model of Elsa's ice palace the Snow Queen had in the woods. Also, speaking of the Snow Queen, maybe people wouldn't see her as a monster if she didn't go around killing people. Although they seem to be okay with Regina, so maybe it's just her frosty personality.

 

If anyone is interested:

The ancient furthark runes on the urn:
Tiwaz (in this form more younger furthark, not elder),  t/d, named after the god Tyr, the god of justice, but also equatet with Roman Mars, the god of war, so with glory, heroic glory
Isaz - ice, isolate, or i
Thurisaz or Thurs - giant, or th
Isaz (again)
Laguz - water, lake, or L

 

Loose interpretation: The power (glory) to ice/freeze/isolate the giant of ice (the powerful, magical being) in (the form of a kind of) water.

There are actually six runes on the urn, not just five. Do you recognize the left-pointing triangle? It doesn't seem to be a futhark rune.

 

EDIT:

 

1. <Brainless/>: The giant ice wall was #4 on her agenda? Really? Way to read a room Snow. What the hell were items 1-3?

I would've thought that Elsa was one of those, but apparently she was item #5. Maybe 1-3 were Marian/Regina drama and the power outage?

Edited October 13, 2014 by HeimrArnadalr

[toodles]

Really, show, really?  Regina wasn't bad, she was just drawn that way?  How very Jessica Rabbit.

[Rumsy4]

Deleted Scene. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=seExHphXEPc

Rumple, Belle, Emma, Elsa, and Hook are at the barn, investigating the remains of the Urn. Hook's already side-eyeing Rumple in that scene. And the vial containing the ashes might come into play again? We saw Hook holding it in some of the promo pictures of the episode.

[HeimrArnadalr]

Deleted Scene. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=seExHphXEPc

Maybe that would've explained how the Snow Queen neutralized Elsa's powers.

[Ariah]

OK, so if Regina gets to rewrite the book and have her happy ending... Would that mean she'll go into the pub to meet her One True Pixie Dust Love Robin before he met Maid Marian?...

And from that moment on she'll never cast the curse, hence Emma will grow up in the Enchanted Forest, never meet Neal and never have Henry = Regina will cancel a part of her own happy ending.

 

But on the other hand, apart from Regina/Henry and Regina/Robin scenes, it was a pretty decent episode.

Hook knows Rumple better than Belle (ha!), Emma gets really angry when someone tries to hurt her love and dad, Elsa is adorable whether with Kristoff or Killian.

 

The Dairy Queen is kind of a conundrum - was that an ice castle she was projecting? Is that a Genosha-type thing now, if she's like Magneto? Is Emma her Xavier?...

[ShadowFacts]

That deleted scene contained some nice exposition on properties/rules of magic.  If it wasn't deleted because of time limitations, maybe the writers didn't want to be tied down to some clearly stated rules? 

[Writing Wrongs]

The Snow Queen said she had neutralized Elsa's power. I wonder how?

 

ETA: I guess that deleted scene could explain that.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Writing Wrongs

[SilvaVocat]

During the scenes when Mary Margaret struggles with holding the baby and managing everything else, I just want to get in my car and drive to Storybrooke so I can teach her how to use an Ergo carrier, a moby wrap and a ring sling. 

 

I know the show wants us to think it's abnormal for MM to want to carry her baby all the time, but plenty of women want to hold their babies all the time, and there are benefits to mom and baby (or dad and baby, nanny and baby, whatever, anyone can babywear).  There are lots of babywearing devices on the market, or you can just tie a shawl around your shoulders and use that.  I know this because I've done it.  Surely someone in the entire enchanted forest, where there were no strollers, knows how to use this ancient parenting technique.

[SimoneS]

Rumple being in back in the mix made this episode for me. I love him because Robert Carlyle is wonderful, but also because Rumple is the only character who sees everyone clearly and everyone (except Belle) sees very clearly. Of course, he knew more than he was saying. He is never going to willing help out the Charmings or anyone else in Storybrooke. Why should he? Unlike Regina, Rumple has absolutely no self-delusions about who he is or who he wants to be. He wants to be powerful and have Belle's love so he does whatever he can do accomplish this goal. It is too bad that Baelfire was killed off because he is Rumple's true Achilles' heel.

 

The other thing I liked was Archie trying to help Snow who is clearly overwhelmed and afraid to lose Neal.

 

The Frozen story which has been excellent is clearly carrying this show because the writers are continuing to be rubbish with the Regina story.

[kili]

Snow, just PUT.THE.BABY.DOWN!  Has Charming even gotten to hold him yet?

 

He got to carry the baby back to Snow from the Zelena stand off. I think that was the last time.  I like that the show did have a point to her holding the baby all the time and that Hopper actually did his job for once (giving her a bit of psychological advice).

 

They seriously need to introduce a few random semi-villains from Disney movies so they don't have to destroy Granny and Grumpy when they need the Irrational Town Mob.  Sheesh.  There was also no way they would have been so disrespectful to Snow at the town council meeting.

 

I wonder if this is laying the ground work for some of the townspeople being upset that they got cursed again. That they get treated as pawns by even their friends? They put it all on the line to restore Snow/Charming to their kingdom - twice - and Snow/Charming return the favour by cursing them all. Maybe some of them resent it and it is making them especially fractious? While Snow and Charming are bending over backwards to accommodate the villains, maybe they could spare a thought for their allies?  I can't decide if this being OUAT that nobody minds being used as pawns or if this being OUAT anything a villain does is misunderstood while everything a hero does can never be forgiven. So, it is either building to something or just a sign of crappy writing.

 

Regina/Robin/Marian - Marian came off really nice in this episode. She didn't lash out at those who are not to blame (the "Regina let's me" would have tripped up some other characters) and forgave the snow monster.  I hope for a happy ending for her, but magical beings seem to have it in for her. I can sort of understand that "you can't help who you love" issue, but Robin could  maybe show a little conflict about it. He seems totally fine being in love with his wife's murderer and his only conflict is that he can't be with her for code reasons (not because he has a code against dating the woman who killed his wife, though). And maybe, when your wife is lying dying on a couch next you, it is not the time to proclaim your love for another. Maybe take it into the next room or wait for a better moment. My happy ending for Marian now includes her dumping that schmuck on his ass, getting custody of Roland and going to a world without magic (where all those magical mishaps can stop happening and we don't have to angst about the actor playing Roland supposed to be a 7 year old in Season 12 and having a five o'clock shadow).

 

Sven is made of win. I know some crew had to film the animal for an hour to get the reaction shots, but they've done a great job of editing that stuff together. More Sven please.

 

Kristoff and Elsa play wonderfully off of each other. The Snow Queen gives off just that whiff of menace that let's us know that she has more going on  - much more menacing that scenery chewing Zelena. If the Snow Queen went all crazy on Arendelle while Elsa's parents were younger, why didn't anybody in Arendelle think that she was responsible when Elsa went crazy and why were they so quick to accept Elsa back - although, it would explain Elsa's parents complete botching of the handling of Elsa.

 

I just can't with Regina thinking that all her problems are related to the bad press she got from the book. I thought she'd learned her lesson in the one where she killed all villagers - people call her the Evil Queen because she was Evil. I can see saying she has changed, but she can't claim the book was wrong about her. That Henry can't see it is unbelievable. He griped about all the crap in her vault - what do you want to bet one of the things that took him all that time was finding a heart box that was empty? And he just sees that as PR problem? Belle/Robin/Henry need to to form a support group - stat.

[myril]

There are actually six runes on the urn, not just five. Do you recognize the left-pointing triangle? It doesn't seem to be a futhark rune.

 

 

You're right, and my coffee deprived morning brain simply dropped the one of the two middle runes (aside that it's futhark, not furthark, should teach my spell check  such things). Not sure what it is, it doesn't look like any variation of futhark I've seen so far. It made me think of the elder futhark kaunaz (or kaunan, kenaz, keno), which would be torch, knowledge (light, enlightenment) or ulcer, disease, harm (in the sense of burning pain, nevertheless interesting combination), standing for k, c or the German ch. But kauna is usually just a "<." no triangle. But it would fit best, I think.

 

So it would be in loose interpretation: The power (glory) to ice/freeze/isolate the harmful giant of ice (the powerful, magical being) in (the form of a kind of) water.

 

edit: Don't know if that was the idea of the writers or just of the prop department, but at least someone with love for details seems to have a sense for world building on the show.

Edited October 13, 2014 by katusch

[pcta]

Rumple being back . . . More screen time please

Bored with Emma's hissy fits - you must love her Hook

Elsa - OK, I guess, don't know frozen so . . .

Henry strikes me like a kid of a divorce - divided loyalties. He's a teenager and his motivations seem appropriate for the age.

This town certainly is into mob mentality

Wish we could focus more on the core group without the necessity of ratings getting villain of the season. But, hey, it's TV