S01.E01: Pilot

[xyzzy]

I must be a weirdo because I thought this episode was generally poorly acted, vaguely campy, and badly written. That doesn't mean I'm giving up. I always give genre shows a generous five episodes to straighten themselves out, and I think most of the problems with Gotham can be resolved by not doing so much in an episode and giving the actors some time to get used to their roles. I thought Fish, Nygma, Oswald Copperpot, and Harvey were all either wrestling with the scenery or strangely stilted. The conversation between Major Crimes and the regular detectives in the diner was particularly cringeworthy.

 

Cat-tween was mostly a non-entity, but I really enjoyed Lil' Poison Ivy's performance. Loved the apartment full of plants and the poor girl's unbrushed hair and whispery countenance. Those plants were the only thing getting love in that dirtheap of a home. I found Alfred's "Head up, don't let them see you cry" admonishment to young Wayne to be interesting. He's always been portrayed as being a bit soft-hearted in most of the films.

 

The costuming, make-up, and set design were fantastic with the exception of E. Nygma. He basically looked like Copperpot's twin.

 

I agree with everyone who said that this first season will probably chart Penguin's rise to prominence while documenting the development of other villains and heroes.

[SanLynn]

Another non-comic book/graphic novel fan checking in. I thought it was a fairly typical pilot, way too busy and way too much shoehorned in.

 

That said it was a pretty decent pilot and I'm interested to see how the world builds out. I'll give it a DVR spot for a while.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

The actor playing Alfred, is British born Sean Pertwee.

His dad Jon was the Third Doctor.

[thuganomics85]

Overall, I thought it was pretty good for a pilot.  My biggest issue was some of the Easter Eggs were too on the nose (Bullock saying he's tired of Nigma's "riddles", Ivy always hanging around plants, etc.), and I already want to start a drinking game for future cameos (I'm betting Young Harvey Dent will be introduced with a coin flip, and someone saying he's "two-faced", while people will always complain about how cold it is whenever a Young Freeze is in the room.)  But, that really is a small issue, all thing's considering.

 

The cop stuff was pretty good, and slightly better then a lot of the procedural, thanks to the Gotham setting and acting.  Never really watched The OC and Southland all that much, but Ben McKenzie seems spot on with the morality, but also intensity.  I can easily see this Jim becoming the Gordon that has been shown in various comics, movies, etc.  Loved Donal Logue as Bullock, and I think he's going to be a good character that will be both an ally and a foil for Jim.  Curious about the rivalry between them and Montoya.  Have to think it will only get worse from here.

 

The kid playing Bruce reminds me of Jared Gilmore/Henry from Once Upon A Time, only much better.  He didn't have much to do, but I really loved Sean Pertwee as Alfred.  I heard Alfred had a military background, and I can really buy that this Alfred served back in the day.  I can't wait to see more of them.

 

As for the future villains, wow, the casting for Selina was spot-on.  She really looks like a young Michelle Pfeiffer.  The actor playing Edward Nigma was good in his one scene, but the guy playing Oswald really stole the show, IMO.  Can't wait to see his journey to The Penguin.

 

Jada Pinkett Smith was having a blast as Fish, but I hope she avoids becoming too campy, which I think could be a danger for this character.  Only other concern is that I hope they don't make Barbara just another, typical cop wife character.

 

We'll see if they can keep this up, but I think I'll be staying.

[Actionmage]

I have fallen for the frakkin' Penguin, ya'll!  Despite his skewed scruples, Robin Lord Taylor has gotten me to feel for the violence enjoying butt-kisser!

 

I loved that Harvey thought he could even think about leaning on Fish ( re: a partner on the force) without any repercussions!

Bullock (upside-down)"How are you doin'?"

Gordon (upside-down as well): "Better."

 

Gilzean? What would Sister Lupe and the Leverage crew think about you now? :(  Still? A very snappy dresser.

 

If they allow Barbara the implied past with Renee, it would be cool to have an acknowledged bi character ( as far as the audience, at least) on tv . Especially in such a high-profile program.

 

Ivy warning/cautioning Gordon and Bullock about her father was a great beat. Ivy's parroting her mom may be a continuing coping mechanism. Just because her dad was "mean", doesn't mean her mom wasn't too. (Not that I couldn't understand. Your apparent income source was your husband's criminal activities, which led to his death and your pregnant? As well as already having a child to care for?  Gotham's social services are probably Dante-esque too.)

 

Even if Montoya's on someone's payroll, why would she automatically believe Oswald? She and Crispus  can't double-check the Fish side of the info, but shouldn't she be able to double-check Gordon? He's just come back from war. Plus he has ties to town. Being snotty to Barbara seemed not super-smart.

 

I am looking forward to seeing how the Gordon/Bruce/Alfred relationship grows. I want to see the bumps in the beginning between the protective men. "Don't you think I've told him just what you said?" Go on with your quietly badass self, Mr. Pennyworth!

 

Edward was appropriately doofy about questions, but also had a good lead for Harvey and Jim to run down. Nice intro. Also, Falcone's proper introduction to the party. He was a Mobby Exposition Fairy, but he was succinct at least. Falcone +Gordon's D.A. dad= truce.

 

Just... so much that I enjoyed, so they had me. I tell of my grandmother buying me, back in the day, a 3/99 cent bags of comics. Wonder Woman was my instant favorite, but Batman was also in that bag. (With Two-Face, no less.) So seeing Gotham scratches my long-time fangirl itch. It's fun, it's true to the appropriate mood/"feel", and there is a great cast!  This was a very good pilot, so it has me looking forward to the rest of the season.  

[NorthstarATL]

"Welcome to Gotham, Bitch!" I really thought the pilot was fun, and Ben has been a fave of mine since the O.C. and Southland, so I knew going in that he would be good in  the role. The rest of the cast were great as well, though, and I think it will be an enjoyable ride watching them grow into whichever version of the characters the creative team has their eyes set on.

 

My biggest issue was some of the Easter Eggs were too on the nose

Are they really "Easter Eggs" if they are defining characteristics, though? It seems more to me a way of laying out who this or that person is, and how the path they choose is a natural extension.

[whiporee]

My favorite thing about it was the interpretation of Alfred. I've never thought of him as tough, and that's an interesting choice.

 

Certainly enough to get me to watch again/ 

[Trini]

I have questions about Gordon's history with the city/police: Everyone kept treating (and telling) Gordon like it was his first day in Gotham. Maybe it's his first week as a detective, but doesn't that imply that he has been in the GCPD for a while at a lower rank? Because it seems as though this was his first taste of how corrupt and cynical the police force is, but he didn't pick up on that when he worked there previously? (Was he there previously?) Did I miss a line of exposition? I'm going to need a little more backstory.

[Rick Kitchen]

He just got out of the army, where he was apparently a war hero.  Plus his father is a former DA.  So he probably got put into his position because of his military service and his connections.

[tennisgurl]

I was really looking forward to this show, and was a little worried by some of the mixed reviews, but I really enjoyed this! Of course, my love of Ben M knows no bounds (and he brought his Ryan Atwood wife beater along with him when he moved to Gotham!), and I thought he was great here. Nice mix of tough and idealistic. So far, I like all the other actors as well. Donal Logue is perfectly cast. I really loved the chemistry between Gordan and Bullock. And Jada Pinkett Smith is clearly having a blast, and I hope we get a lot more of her.

 

The cinematography was great, and it all had kind of a Dark City/Blade Runner vibe to it, very noir. I know that some reviews have complained about all the references to the Batman mythos, and how they're kind of pointless, but I loved them all! As a big Batman fan, I got a pretty big kick out of all the references, and I feel like after this episode, they'll dial down on them anyway. I mean, its called Gotham. Even if Batman's not around yet, they still need to show that's its Gotham, not just some random city. I love seeing how his birth coincides with the birth of Gotham as we know it, full of super criminals and even greater corruption. It adds color to the show. 

 

Basically, I loved it, and I am already adding it to my "must watch" list. Its also a pretty perfect companion for Sleepy Hallow!

[VillaVillekulla]

I agree with xyzzy. I'm a Batman fan and I really wanted to fall head over heels for Gotham at first blush, but I just...found it fairly heavy-handed and unfortunately rather cheesy. Maybe I was expecting it to be darker and more serious right off the bat (ha), and once I get used to the tone it's going for instead, I'll enjoy it more. I'm definitely going to give it a few more episodes to see how it goes, but it was not at all what I was expecting.

[Syndicate]

Maybe I'm twisted and evil but I want this show to give me darkness and extreme murderousness.  The description of Gotham is that it's a dangerous crime/murder capitol.  The pilot was almost a little more comical than I wanted it to be, but I think there's hope for the darkness that's seemingly more warranted.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Syndicate

[ottoDbusdriver]

Two things that bugged me in the first 5 minutes.

 

Do they really expect us to believe with all that jumping, leaping and climbing that Catween guzzled nearly a quart of milk before feeding that cat ?  Because that jug was nearly empty when she fed the cat.

 

When Jim Gordon grabbed the gun from the prisoner/hostage taker, he ejects the bullet in a really cool move, but wouldn't that just chamber the next round ?  The prisoner only fired 3 shots, so there were probably lots of bullets left in the clip.

 

And if Jim Gordon was low man on the detective totem pole at the station, how come everyone reacted to him during the hostage-taking as if he was in charge/star of the show ?

 

CSI: Gotham is off to a slow start (or is that 'Law and Order: Supercriminals in Training Unit').

Edited September 23, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Xantar]

Maybe I'm twisted and evil but I want this show to give me darkness and extreme murderousness.  The description of Gotham is that it's a dangerous crime/murder capitol.  The pilot was almost a little more comical than I wanted it to be, but I think there's hope for the darkness that's seemingly more warranted.

 

Well, a common theme of the comics is how the rise of Batman parallels the rise of supervillains. The Falcone syndicate was the main game in town early in Batman's career, but they were wiped out by the time Riddler, Penguin, Scarecrow and the others came along. And as terrible as organized crime is generally, Falcone was not nearly as bad as the Joker. So although I disagree somewhat with your characterization of the pilot as comical and not dark enough, I will also say that there's justification for the show not being as absolutely dark as possible yet.

 

My main disappointment was actually the music. Every great adaptation of Batman has had a distinct theme from Danny Elfman's score in the first Batman movies to the intro theme in the Animated Series to Molossus in the Nolan trilogy. This show just has generic brooding violins. I hope they eventually come up with something better.

[2KllMckngBrd]

I loved the pilot. I loved the feature on the pilot too, but not as much as I loved the ep. I was excited for this, and it delivered. Didn't watch b/c of Ben McKenzie, but did love him on Southland, and he was great here. It did suffer from what all pilots do: too much reiteration of character names & relationships, and of course the laying of plot points to be collected and played out over the season, and shows' run. I agree w/all those who thought JPS was the most "cartooney" of the bunch, but c'mon the characters name is Fish Mooney; what else could she do?

My only issue so far is w/previously TV and the shows writers. Really w/the pearl necklace? I had to ask my son what you meant in the article, and why twitter had commented on that as well. And all I can say is, eww! Was that really necessary? I have managed to live my life just fine w/out that info. Dammit. And now I've been forced to have, what my son can only describe as "horrific" convo w/his traumatized mom. And I'm left to contemplate why in the hell he knew this!

Still, I'm in for next wk. Lol. More than I can say for Scorpion. Off to that thread!

[BkWurm1]

The pilot had a lot going for it but it also had some clunky moments that I hope to see smooth out in the next few episodes.  Hopefully it was just the typical packing the pilot syndrome that gave the episode a rushed feeling. 

 

I loved the OC but I'm not sold on BM's Jim Gordan yet.  His character was a little too all over that place bouncing from a light hearted one of the guys after disarming the perp in precinct to being super serious detective guy.  I just don't have a solid feel for him yet.  I think as the episode progressed he was doing better but I had a hard time believing he would so willingly endanger the orphaned Wayne just so he could keep a promise.  It seemed unsupported as to why he would show up at Wayne Manor and make his confession to a 12 year old.  We know it's no ordinary 12 year old, but he doesn't and nothing we saw in their interaction should have led to him thinking Bruce was special, IMO. 

 

I could easily believe that in Gordan's mind he's latched onto the Wayne case as his touchstone with both reality and his purity as an honest to god good cop.  He can't be that person with anyone else but in his mind he made the kid a promise and I can see him obsessing over it until he unloads the truth.  I can believe all that, I just didn't see anything that made me think this is actually how Jim felt and mores the pity. So that disappointed me.

 

That said, I really do think there is a lot of room for growth.  Bullock and Gordon are great together (Bullock is the one that is going to steal the show IMO).  Fish was fun and creepy and IMO fits a city that later will shape a horde of over the top characters.  Falcone's intervention was a fascinating twist.  Barbara and her past (I assume criminal past though that wouldn't preclude a special relationship with Montoya too) is going to make every aspect of Gordan's life worth watching. 

 

I was not as enamored of Oswald. He made a gleeful underling but now he's supposed to stay hidden or leave Gotham so his potential as an interesting and usable character just went way down.  Plus, I don't care about his rise to crazy status so if we end up getting a parallel story of Jim Gordan rising the ranks of the police department while the Penguin escalates, I'm going to find myself fast forwarding through the Pre-penguin stuff. 

 

Ivy I assume was a throwaway cameo/Easter egg.  At least I'm hoping.

 

I really enjoyed Cat-tween skulking about and found her new obsession with Bruce very logical.  Whether Bruce knows it or not, they share a connection so yeah, I can see the ever watchful Selina constantly studying him.  It's not like she has anything better to do. 

 

Do they really expect us to believe with all that jumping, leaping and climbing that Catween guzzled nearly a quart of milk before feeding that cat ?  Because that jug was nearly empty when she fed the cat.

 

Lol, I think the real explanation is that from the angle they wanted her to pour the milk into the container it would have been very hard to tip the carton without spilling unless they dumped most of the milk out...either that or they had to do the take over so many times they almost ran out.  Working with kids and animals can be tough.  ;)

Edited September 23, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Chip]

Just a general question.  Have the rules on show vs. comics been worked out for this forum yet?

 

They have not yet, we can discuss it in another thread.

 

Overall, I liked  it. The only acting that really bothered me was Donal Logue (who I like a lot). He needs to work on his excited/angry Harvey. Gordon, Bruce, and Alfred were great. Now that all the Easter Eggs have been thrown out there, I hope we stick with this bunch of characters instead of getting a steady stream of new villains.

[Minneapple]

Very good pilot. I was worried that the press was raising expectations too much, but I think it was justified. I particularly liked the baby Batman. Good find for a kid actor.

Was it just me or were there sexual undertones to Blondie and Montoya's conversation? I think they had better chemistry than Blondie had with Gordon.

[2KllMckngBrd]

Very good pilot. I was worried that the press was raising expectations too much, but I think it was justified. I particularly liked the baby Batman. Good find for a kid actor.

Was it just me or were there sexual undertones to Blondie and Montoya's conversation? I think they had better chemistry than Blondie had with Gordon.

I liked the kid too. He looks like how baby bat is always imagined

 

And word to all the sexual tension between Barbara and Montoya. I thought the same thing immediately. Felt like maybe some college bi-experimenting might have happened back n the day. Kept waiting for Montoya to go over and grab her for a kiss, or something else, and Gordon walk in. I can't figure out if "swimming" is supposed to be a double entendre, a simple anvil, or what. We know she is supposed to end Mrs. Gordon, but...

[Perfect Xero]

Barbara here reminded me of Kate Kane from the comics, the obvious wealth, the way she looked a carried herself, the relationship with Montoya.

 

Also, Montoya was the worst, "I got a tip from an possibly insane, self serving source implicating a fellow cop who I barely know and have done nothing to investigate it, what should I do first? I KNOW, I'LL GO TELL HIS FIANCE!"

Edited September 23, 2014 by Perfect Xero

[Oscirus]

I found this to be quite enjoyable the hour just zoomed by.

I liked the use of Catwoman as a way of introducing us to the old Gotham. I liked the penguin even if it is hard to see how someone that dumb raises in the ranks, ditto Gordon. Fish was an excellent villain, she probably won't last more then one season. She is way too over the top evil to last too long. But she'll make for a good enough season one baddie. I love the darkness of the city that permeates every scene in the pilot.

 

For the most part, with the exception of the Riddler, I liked the introduction of the future Gotham criminals. Well done without showing off. I felt the opposite  In the Riddler's case. There's a difference between winking at the audience and pulling up your skirt and say hey everybody take a look.  The show went past that line with the Riddler.

 

I hope there's more to Barbara then the implied lesbian relationship. I also didn't get why she would go to Donal when she knew Harvey was in trouble. I get that he's his partner but why wouldn't she go to her friends on the force?

 

Lastly, I caught your Joker wink ( that comedian with Fish), and  while I do find it interesting that Fish could accidentally make two of Gotham's greatest villains. I don't think that he's the Joker, but nice try.

[Agent Dark]

I really liked that.  I think the captured the feel of Gotham perfectly, which goes a long way to making a Batman show/movie/game/book feel *right*.  I also think they have almost perfectly cast the characters as well.  The characters just feel like they've come straight out of the pages of the comics.  I certainly gives the impression that TPTB are genuine fans of the Batman mythology and that they've done their homework.

 

My favorite thing about it was the interpretation of Alfred. I've never thought of him as tough, and that's an interesting choice.

 

Certainly enough to get me to watch again/ 

Alfred has always had something of a shady past.  In the comics he's usually got a past as a British Intelligence Agent, which is where he picked up his collection of assorted skills.  A background in Theater Acting as well, is the other main thing he's got going on.  The Micheal Caine version from The Dark Knight trilogy was a former SAS soldier.

 

My main disappointment was actually the music. Every great adaptation of Batman has had a distinct theme from Danny Elfman's score in the first Batman movies to the intro theme in the Animated Series to Molossus in the Nolan trilogy. This show just has generic brooding violins. I hope they eventually come up with something better.

Yeah I agree - the original score was definitely lackluster, though they did win points for using some music by The Dead Weather (Treat Me Like Your Mother in the scene where Gordon and Bullock are shaking down the random street criminals for clues, and Hang You From The Heavens when Gordon goes back to talk to Fish Mooney the second time.  I'll gladly take some Jack White and Alison Mosshart in any show I watch.)

[Winnief]

One small thing; while Selina seems to get most of the attention, (and the young actress certainly had her look and body language down,) I really liked young Ivy Pepper-there was something about that kid's performance that seemed so...damaged.

[darkestboy]

I really enjoyed this episode. It wasn't without some flaws - the music bugged in a few scenes but as a pilot, it did everything it needed to pretty well.

The Waynes murder and Bruce's sort of start towards his future self was set up nicely and I like the tiny rivalry of sorts with both Gordon and Alfred for him as well. Pertwee's Alfred is a little different than expected.

The Gordon/Bullock partnership works extremely well with both of them complimenting each other well. In general the approach to Bullock is nicely done and his history with Fish is interesting.

Speaking of Fish, I really like her as a villain and she's certainly proved herself to be hotheaded and dangerous but at the same time, she might be jumping the gun with Falcone as well.

Falcone is another interesting character, definitely more here than he was in Batman Begins for example. I liked his scene with Gordon as well.

Oswald - I think was the highlight of the episode. He definitely jumped the gun and nearly lost his life for it. The end scene was great.

Nice to see Selina as well as giving her a role in the Waynes murders but I do hope she gets some dialogue pretty soon as well.

I like Renee, Allen, Sarah and Barbara but aside from an implied former romantic history with Renee and Barbara, not too much was done with them. Same with Edward and Ivy, though their appearances were nice.

What happened to that poor comedian at the end too? He did see/hear too much for Fish to let him slip away, right?

The show is gorgeously shot too, especially the city at night in the opening scenes.

A wonderful start to the series, 8/10

[GHScorpiosRule]

Sigh...

I don't know what I'm missing here. I seem to be the only one who was underwhelmed*.  I was just bored to pieces. Now you wanna talk about Sleepy Hollow? Good GOD DAYUM! That was awesome. The only thing I think that I liked that yeah, Bullock is soiled in this. Based on the interviews and trailers I'd seen, it seemed like they were going to have him be, well, like a mentor or something. Oh, and John Doman can stay too.

 

Maybe it's because I've watched cop procedurals, it seems my whole life, going back to Baretta and Starsky & Hutch (Don't judge me!)...and this just came off as just another cop show, and it just wasn't good. New earnest cop? Check; kinda sorta dirty cop who plays the game? check. stupid maroons of cops who take the word of a bad guy with no proof? check. Mafia influence on the cops? check. And I'd like to know what the showrunner was smoking when he said the kid they got to play Bruce was the bestest, most awesomestest ACTOR EVER , in the whole universe of actors, kids and adults alike, even better than Bale. Bale was EONS better as a kid actor. And don't get me started on his wail of grief over his murdered parents, either.

 

But I is a fair poirsen, and I did give Arrow 3 episodes before I bailed, so there ya go!

 

*small voice: I loved the pilot of Smallville soooo much more.

[Milz]

Re: the pearl necklace...This is nitpicky but, a strand of it broke and all the pearls fell off the string. Why would a millionaire's wife wear a pearl necklace that isn't properly strung? Pearls are individually knotted to keep them from scratching each other and to prevent a shower of pearls if the strand breaks. Yeah, I know it was probably done for dramatic effect, but still.

 

Anyhow, I liked the program.

 

Does anyone know if this program is following Pre- or Post-Crisis Batman cannon?

[Petunia13]

The comedians joke was plagerized from Jack Handy's Deep Thoughts on SNL.

[quarks]

Count me in as another who was underwhelmed.  The first half hour dragged for me - maybe because I've already seen Bruce's parents killed on film before, maybe because of the heavy handed introduction of iconic Bat-villains (It's a RIDDLE! A RIDDLE! GOT IT?)  Jim Gordon didn't grab me one way or another, and his partner and Renee Montoya annoyed me. Shut up, partner, and wait until you have some actual information on Gordon before running to his girlfriend, Renee. I also think that Penguin could have been introduced a little more subtly - just his name, then the walk and the fish eating stuff later. No need to keep saying "Penguin" at us.   And the running over the rooftops chasing the bad guys scene was also done in Arrow's pilot - and done a lot better there.

 

The last fifteen minutes were a major improvement, though. The Carmine Falcone scene had some real potential, and although I have to agree that Fish is incredibly campy, she does look like she'll be a lot of fun.  I also like Cattween (great name) even if she hasn't had any dialogue yet.  So I'll give this another few episodes.

[tv echo]

I enjoyed this pilot episode.  Yes, it can use some tweaks, but it shows great promise.  I liked that the mystery of who killed the Wayne parents wasn't solved right away.  I liked that James Gordon was left with the choice of three bad options at the end: kill Oswald in cold blood, refuse and have to kill Harvey in self-defense, or let Oswald go.  He lets Oswald go free and Oswald goes on to kill people. 

 

I thought Ben Mackenzie did a great job as Gordon.  He's one of those actors who can look like a nice guy one moment and then demonstrate dangerous ruthlessness the next (kinda like Russell Crowe). 

 

We know from Batman Begins that Fish Mooney probably doesn't survive, but Carmine Falcone does.  I suspect Jada Pinkett Smith signed a one-year contract - I doubt she would commit long term to a TV show.

 

I'm on the fence about Gordon's fiance, Barbara.  In the comics,

Barbara Kean Gordon is James' first wife.  She divorces him when he has an affair with fellow cop, Sarah Essen.  Sarah becomes James' second wife, but she is later killed by the Joker, I believe.

 I wonder if the show will follow the comics.

 

I'm also on the fence about Catween (credit to mtlchick).  She did make for some neat visuals with the cityscape, though.  And when she was weaving through the crowds, the city streets had a very Blade Runner-ish feel to it (as also noted by tennisgurl).

 

I liked the relationship between Gordon and young Bruce Wayne.  Gordon wasn't willing to let Bruce believe a lie - that his parents' killers had been caught - but still wanted to reassure Bruce that he was going to keep his promise and find the real killers.

 

Gotham and Sleepy Hollow are now my Monday night viewing of choice.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

Well, a common theme of the comics is how the rise of Batman parallels the rise of supervillains. The Falcone syndicate was the main game in town early in Batman's career, but they were wiped out by the time Riddler, Penguin, Scarecrow and the others came along. And as terrible as organized crime is generally, Falcone was not nearly as bad as the Joker. So although I disagree somewhat with your characterization of the pilot as comical and not dark enough, I will also say that there's justification for the show not being as absolutely dark as possible yet.

.

As Falcone said "There are rules." The rise of Batman, The Penguin. And the like kinda elimanated "the rules." Edited September 23, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[LadyArcadia]

The Easter eggs didn't bother me but I probably missed a lot of them.  I didn't even realize that Riddler got introduced tonight.  What I really liked was that the physicality of several of the characters I did recognize really fit their future identities, Catwoman and Penguin in particular.  You could pick them out with no reference to who they were.

 

I'm the same. I didn't realize until I came here that he was The Riddler.  I just thought he was a cute nerd, and I love me some cute nerds.  Who knew I'd crush on The Riddler?  ha! 

 

I'm a casual Batman fan, so it's fun for me to learn who they're supposed to be.

 

I thought the acting was terrible in spots, but the storyline grabbed me.  Oswald, of course, is a highlight. I agree Fish was a bit over the top. Let's hope she quickly becomes Penguin food.

 

I'll be in for the long run.  I loved it.

[Enigma X]

I recognized most of the Easter eggs and enjoyed them. It did not take away from the story for me at all. I also liked Mackenzie as Gordon. I never saw him on the OC though. Even Pinkett worked for me. 

[Lokiberry]

Re: the pearl necklace...This is nitpicky but, a strand of it broke and all the pearls fell off the string. Why would a millionaire's wife wear a pearl necklace that isn't properly strung? Pearls are individually knotted to keep them from scratching each other and to prevent a shower of pearls if the strand breaks. Yeah, I know it was probably done for dramatic effect, but still.

 

Anyhow, I liked the program.

 

Does anyone know if this program is following Pre- or Post-Crisis Batman cannon?

I think it's going to take a little bit of canon from everything, and make up some of it's own. (ie: future Poison Ivy named Ivy instead of Pamela).

 

About the pearl necklace: Martha Wayne's pearls spilling onto the ground is an iconic image from Batman, they pretty much had to use it, even if it's not realistic (which I didn't know because I've never had a pearl necklace).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Welcome to the GC, bitch! Part of me hopes that Adam Brody will guest star because Seth Cohen would have totally geeked out about this show.

I have seen some of the Batman movies (the ones with Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney) but have not read the comics so I recognized some of the characters like Ivy and Selina. I'm sure there are lots that I missed though.

I was getting the Sean Penn/Robert Duvall in Colors vibe from Gordon and Bullock. I am still sad that Terriers was canceled so nice to see Donal Logue back on my tv.

There was a lot of H!ITG in this episode which was fun.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Barbara here reminded me of Kate Kane from the comics, the obvious wealth, the way she looked a carried herself, the relationship with Montoya.

 

I thought Barbara Kean looked a lot like Alice Eve.

[mtlchick]

My main disappointment was actually the music. Every great adaptation of Batman has had a distinct theme from Danny Elfman's score in the first Batman movies to the intro theme in the Animated Series to Molossus in the Nolan trilogy.

 

It was somewhat glaring, but didn't bother me that much.  I think that music is more tied to Batman himself as opposed to Jim Gordon, who this series will be focused on more. I do feel if the show has a good run and ends with Bruce officially being Batman, that's probably when we will hear it.

[Lynnann]

Really w/the pearl necklace? I had to ask my son what you meant in the article, and why twitter had commented on that as well. And all I can say is, eww! Was that really necessary? I have managed to live my life just fine w/out that info. Dammit. And now I've been forced to have, what my son can only describe as "horrific" convo w/his traumatized mom. And I'm left to contemplate why in the hell he knew this!

Still, I'm in for next wk. Lol. More than I can say for Scorpion. Off to that thread!

 

Wondering if you could actually explain this in plain English, rather than beating around the bush as I, for one, have no idea what you are talking about.

[Atony]

Also, Montoya was the worst, "I got a tip from an possibly insane, self serving source implicating a fellow cop who I barely know and have done nothing to investigate it, what should I do first? I KNOW, I'LL GO TELL HIS FIANCE!"

 

Yes I found that scene very forced

 

 

 

Once upon a time, a rookie detective named Jim Gordon encountered every notable villain in Batman history; then, he waited patiently for someone else to come along and defeat them.

 

I love this so much, it is part of my problem with dropping in all these villians.  I don't think we are ever going to see Gordon facing off against the Riddler for instance, so is there a reason to be so heavy handed there?   A little easter egg down the line of who that person will turn into one day would suffice.  Now I am just imagining Gordon going "Hmm, a guy who leaves riddles at crime sites?  Remember that forensic scientist who everyone knew was obsessed with riddles who up and quit one day?  Funny that...."

 

But anyway.  I thought it was a solid enough pilot.  I hope it settles down on shoving in all the Batman anvils it can and just focuses on being it's own thing and the best show it can be.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Atony

[whack-a-mole]

More style than substance.

[Trini]

Does anyone know if this program is following Pre- or Post-Crisis Batman cannon?

 

They're not following any specific canon as far as I know; they're mostly treating this as a new story/new version.

[supposebly]

Not bad but there were a lot of cliches that seemingly needed checking. I hope they're done with that now.

 

Since all I know about Gotham is from the Batman movies, I don't care one way or another about canon.

 

I liked the atmosphere, I find Ben Mackenzie boring and bland but I'm in for Donal Logue.

 

I don't quite understand what this is supposed to be: An enhanced procedural? A Superhero universe that is about "the normal guys" like Agents of Shield?

But I guess it's good that I can't quite classify it yet.

[Arynm]

 

Really w/the pearl necklace? I had to ask my son what you meant in the article, and why twitter had commented on that as well. And all I can say is, eww! Was that really necessary? I have managed to live my life just fine w/out that info. Dammit. And now I've been forced to have, what my son can only describe as "horrific" convo w/his traumatized mom. And I'm left to contemplate why in the hell he knew this!

Still, I'm in for next wk. Lol. More than I can say for Scorpion. Off to that thread!

 

Wondering if you could actually explain this in plain English, rather than beating around the bush as I, for one, have no idea what you are talking about.

 

My good deed of the day is to explain in layman's terms, the "Pearl Necklace". It is when a man ejaculates on a woman's chest. People say it looks like a pearl necklace.

[Lyndy]

Sigh...

I don't know what I'm missing here. I seem to be the only one who was underwhelmed*.  I was just bored to pieces. 

Thank you! I really thought I was alone here. I mean, I get why it's getting good feedback in theory. I just couldn't dive into it. Couldn't bring myself to care about any of these people. I might try again mid season to see if it sticks but honestly, I don't see myself tuning in again.

[gik910]

I liked it.  I didn't mind the easter eggs- I'm a casual batman fan.  I know enough of characters, but not any of the real detailed canon.  I thought it was a well done pilot - the only major glaringly bad spot for me was when Montoya just took Copplepot's word at face value & went to Jim's fiance with the info.  First, obviously you are jealous of that relationship.  Second, that is just bad police work...if you genuinely think that you go to IA and God forbid you get any actual proof.  

 

So I am in for the now- the Monday night block excites me.  

[Milz]

I think it's going to take a little bit of canon from everything, and make up some of it's own. (ie: future Poison Ivy named Ivy instead of Pamela).

 

About the pearl necklace: Martha Wayne's pearls spilling onto the ground is an iconic image from Batman, they pretty much had to use it, even if it's not realistic (which I didn't know because I've never had a pearl necklace).

 

My uncle collected comic books. He allowed me to read some of the Wonder Woman and Lois Lane comics when I was a kid (under supervision), because he thought a girl should read those comics (yeah, he was a tad bit of a sexist, but he was a product of his generation.)  Anyhow, he had a DC comic compendium of secret origins, reprinting the original comics. So the Batman origin was the one from Detective Comics in the 40s(?). It had the killer saying "Hand over that necklace, lady". Then shooting Thomas. and shooting Martha after she starts screaming.

 

I know they've updated the origin since then, but I still look at the original Detective Comics as the origin.

 

RE: Poison Ivy

 

I looked at my husband and said, "she's not supposed to be Poison Ivy is she?" If they are taking a little from pre-Crisis and a little from post-Crisis and mixing it with their own, it will either be really good or really bad, really fast. The Crisis was one of the reasons why I stopped reading DC altogether and started reading Marvel (and I stopped reading that when they did all of the X-Men spin-offs.)

[SimoneS]

I love this so much, it is part of my problem with dropping in all these villians.  I don't think we are ever going to see Gordon facing off against the Riddler for instance, so is there a reason to be so heavy handed there?  

 

I think we might see Gordon confronting the Riddler, but not knowing that he will be a dangerous villain one day. If the show is clever, it will give Gordon short-lived victories over these villains. After all, almost all criminals spend time in years in prison at some time or the other.

[blackwing]

I enjoyed it.  The best part for me was Jada Pinkett Smith.  She clearly was relishing the role and it was nice to see her having so much fun.  I particularly dislike Donal Logue, not sure why, but I've never cared for him at all.   Hated him in Copper and hated him in Vikings.  Hope he is more likeable here and grows on me.

 

I liked the atmosphere of the whole thing, it had the dark and edgy look.  And it was the little touches, like when Harvey and Jim were in the diner and the lights from cars on the street kept flicking over them.  One thing I did think is that it seemed to try too hard to capture that "Arrow" feel with the darkness and music.  Even the title screen, with the increasingly loud music over the "GOTHAM" title which zooms in on you and gets larger seemed the same.

 

I do wish they hadn't introduced so many characters all at once.  It wouldn't have killed them to have saved the introductions of the would-be Catwoman and Poison Ivy for a few episodes later.

[Milz]

 

I do wish they hadn't introduced so many characters all at once.  It wouldn't have killed them to have saved the introductions of the would-be Catwoman and Poison Ivy for a few episodes later.

 

Introducing the future baddies now will allow them to introduce the future heroes, like Superman, gradually.

[Trini]

 

I do wish they hadn't introduced so many characters all at once.

 

This seems to be a Hollywood pilot thing. Everyone needs to be seen upfront -- even if that's not the best way to tell the story. I kinda get that producers, etc. might need to do that to pitch a show, but then I think they should then do it the better way for when it actually airs. Of course, then making two pilots is not cost effective... so we're stuck with front-loaded pilots.

 

/pet peeve

[mtlchick]

 

I think we might see Gordon confronting the Riddler, but not knowing that he will be a dangerous villain one day.

 

I liked that Gordon was able to solve his riddle without batting an eye.  In the Val Kilmer movie version (and the 60s show for that matter, though I can't remember if it happened in the animated series) Gordon would have been stumped and used the Bat Signal.