S04.E10: With Open Eyes

[Eliot]

13 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

What I found most unbelievable is Matson would talk to Greg about the job that far before the board meeting. I guess he needed someone in line for an announcement but still ....he had to know it would leak to shiv and possibly blow the deal. 

He didn’t, though. Greg eavesdropped on their conversation using Google translate.

[Racj82]

5 minutes ago, pennben said:

That’s always been a Kendall tick, maybe she just picked it up here (character or actor)?

This is true (the yeah) but it sticks out so much with Shiv to me. It may also be a deliberate tick they put on Shiv as she tried to gain power.

[DrSpaceman73]

1 minute ago, Eliot said:

He didn’t, though. Greg eavesdropped on their conversation using Google translate.

I meant Tom not Greg. I know Greg eavesdropped but he talked to Tom about the job. 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Diapason Untuned said:

I swear if I was Kendall I would never talk to either of those assholes ever again.

Other than his mother, who does he have left?  Rava and his kids are furious with him because of his choice to back Mencken.  His father is dead.  He said it himself, he doesn't think he's anything without the company.

1 hour ago, deaja said:

Shiv leaving mid vote “I might have changed my mind?” It feels like she just can’t let go of her jealousy. To throw the waiter in his face right then. For all her high and mighty posturing, she’d rather have another sexual predator at the wheel than let her brother best her. Out of all the horrible people on the show, other than Logan, she might really be the worst.

But didn't Kendall make the call to boost Mencken, and therefore hoist his brand of fascism on the US of A, because he was pissed at Shiv?  It's no less petty, unserious or destructive (arguably more so) than Shiv's actions.  There were no good choices sitting at the table. 

54 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, but...so? That's security for Greg. He's never been all that ambitious. He just wants the thing that's slightly better than the alternative, which in this case he definitely got.

There's a followup story to be told on Greg in a few years time.  He has managed to combine the ability to grovel and hold his position while also being stealthily sneaky. 

8 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

What I found most unbelievable is Matson would talk to Greg about the job that far before the board meeting. I guess he needed someone in line for an announcement but still ....he had to know it would leak to shiv and possibly blow the deal. 

It was only a day before.  And Tom had every reason to keep that knowledge from Shiv. 

7 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Not important at all but Shiv constantly ending statements with Yeah? drives me up a wall. They went overboard with all the kids doing it this episode.

Yeah.  It annoys me. I don't know if it's the writing or the way Snook delivers it.

[nb360]

A part of me is sad that Kendall didn't get it. He seemed destined for it, from the first episode of the series to this last.

I feel bad for Roman - hope he gets some help.

[But these are fictional characters, so why do I care??  (rhetorical question) ]

Edited May 29, 2023 by nb360

[nb360]

Also... why is Greg getting $200,000 for doing nothing (except getting coffee, sushi and lemon LeCroix)?

[Alexander Pope]

When Kendall hugged Roman after Roman melted down about how "it should have been me," Roman was in agony, both emotionally and physically.  It was a weirdly tender and violent moment.  Did Roman deliberately open his cut during that long Jesus/Judas-like embrace?

I also thought that when Matson told Tom he would rather work with the guy who put the baby in the lady than the pregnant lady it won the prize for the most sexist moment in this thoroughly sexist universe.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Alexander Pope

[BlackberryJam]

All the Roy children are awful, the least awful being Connor, and he’s only least awful because he has zero power. Kendall Chappaquidicked that waiter. He’s a coke addict who shits the bed. He made the call for Mencken because he was pissed at Shiv. He has zero concern for his children, and those are just a few of his negatives. 

Roman has no discernible skills, sold any shred of soul he might have had to put Mencken in the White House, sexually harassed Gerri and is mentally hanging by a thread.

Shiv is inconstant and desperate for approval, selling out Kendall to get back at him for selling her out. She’s unqualified for the job and she’s terrible at office politics, not to mention her bizarre and uncaring push pull relationship with Tom.

Connor though. Connor and his cow couch. You do you, Cameron. You do you.

[aghst]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

 

Shiv is fine with covering up sexual harassment and assault multiple times, but then is so blind to not see that the same who harass other women will cut her out in a hot second. 

Greg slaps back now, Tom, so watch out!

“The GoJo deal is a bad deal. And it’s a bad deal. And Roman and I were proud of it but now we’re not and it’s a bad deal.” Oh Kendall….

Shiv leaving mid vote “I might have changed my mind?” It feels like she just can’t let go of her jealousy. To throw the waiter in his face right then. For all her high and mighty posturing, she’d rather have another sexual predator at the wheel than let her brother best her. Out of all the horrible people on the show, other than Logan, she might really be the worst. 

I guess they're like the scorpion riding on the frog's back, they can't help themselves..

They had a moment at their mother's house, kind of reminiscent of when they were smoking weed in the boat house in season 1, because that was where they hung out together as children.

But we know that moment of fraternal bonding didn't last and this one didn't even last 24 hours -- how long does it take to fly down from NYC to Barbados and then back for next morning, even on private jets?

Roman hesitated on his vote and then Shiv just walked out.

Rome said "we're bullshit" or a more terse version of what Logan said about them.

Shiv didn't include herself, just that Kendall doesn't deserve it.  She looked like she hated Tom with the blazing heat of a hot white sun when she found out that Mattson would appoint Tom CEO.

But I guess hating her husband of a few years can't trump lifelong envy and hatred of her siblings.

It's one thing to betray her brothers but why would she go off with Tom?  She had told Mattson that Tom would suck the biggest dick.   Tom may now have the biggest title, something she coveted herself, but he's a figurehead and probably going to be a scapegoat as Mattson takes the hatchet to Waystar's assets.

 

So we didn't expect a "happy" ending but the Roys, while denied what they wanted most, walk away with billions each.  They have emotional issues and the one still nominally married can't be too thrilled with her husband.  Again, I don't get it, she is way richer than him and his title doesn't have the same meaning as the one she wanted.  She certainly can't have much respect for him, the way she talked about him and the things she said to his face.

Connor may not be ambassador after all to Slovenia and Willa wasn't going to go with and now may have to actually live with him as actual husband and wife.  But they'll be okay, they won't be as rich as the other Roys but they're relatively well-adjusted.

Greg has relatively little but he may yet ingratiate himself with grandad.  He was doing all the dirty work for $200k, which is a lot of money nationally but isn't going to get him some palatial apartment in Manhattan.

Should have gone with grandad Ewan.

 

 

 

[jeansheridan]

9 minutes ago, Alexander Pope said:

Did Roman deliberately open his cut during that long Jesus/Judas-like embrace?

Some people saw it as Kendall popping the stitches open. I think it is deliberately ambiguous. But Roman does calm down immediately.

[jeansheridan]

None of the siblings are good people although Kendall is the only one to have knowingly killed a person. 

That said, I liked this ending for Roman. And Keiran. Connor clearly has the best ending objectively. He even had bonding time with dad. But Keiran got a drink I think was Gerri's preferred cocktail and got to look cool one last time.

Shiv looked miserable. As did Kendall. And Tom. 

Honestly it was a good day to be Karl and Frank and Stewie.

[marybennet]

10 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

22 minutes ago, Alexander Pope said:

Did Roman deliberately open his cut during that long Jesus/Judas-like embrace?

Expand  

Some people saw it as Kendall popping the stitches open. I think it is deliberately ambiguous. But Roman does calm down immediately.

Yes, I think they both are doing it deliberately. They both know that Roman mixes up being loved and being hurt. 

[ruby24]

53 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Not important at all but Shiv constantly ending statements with Yeah? drives me up a wall. They went overboard with all the kids doing it this episode.

But, it could just be me. Yeah?

THIS. This is a British thing, I swear to god. Its always driven me nuts watching the show, because Americans (not me and none that I know!) don't talk like this. We don't. 

[jeansheridan]

6 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

THIS. This is a British thing, I swear to god. Its always driven me nuts watching the show, because Americans (not me and none that I know!) don't talk like this. We don't.

They have a British mother. I don't really notice it. I like the dialogue. They sound like real people.

[pennben]

46 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

This is true (the yeah) but it sticks out so much with Shiv to me. It may also be a deliberate tick they put on Shiv as she tried to gain power.

Good thought! I sort of want to go back now as I think I can recall instances of Logan saying it. But if I’m not whole cloth making memories up, when he would say it, it was in a more dismissive tone. When they both say it. It is with hesitancy, lack of confidence.  They knew the words of their father, never learned the power. 

[jeansheridan]

1 hour ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Tom may be a suck up but I have to admit that he knows what he's doing with regards to personnel. Eschewing Hugo for Karolina and trying to get Gerri back are 100% the right moves.

Agreed. Tom is just plausible enough. But I see him let go in a few years. Corporate reshuffling.

[RedDelicious]

Caroline was absolutely lousy right to the end, gathering her children not to have a Caribbean air clear but to have her slimy husband pitch an investment opportunity with his even slimier friend. Gross.

[Artsda]

I hate that Mattson won the company and Shiv chooses Tom/Mattson over her brothers was bull. Glad it wasn't her, but the way she turned on Ken from the previous night? He should be done with her forever and Roman should be too.

I thought Ken was going to jump, glad he didn't.

Tom as CEO, I guess its better than Greg. 

So much story left to tell.

 

[Adgirl]

Did I miss someone else mentioning that what Jonathan/Peter was trying to sell the kids were cut rate, Nurse Ratchet old people homes? Mom is horrible and married another horrible. At least some unsuspecting nice person won't get seduced by either of them.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Adgirl

[Taget]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I mean I can't pity them too much. They make billions off the deal. If kendall wants to start a new company he can. 

He doesn't need to start a new one.  He signed a contract to buy ATN competitor Pierce.  He can even claim he's continuing the "true" legacy of his father.  Roman had it right.  There is nothing magical about Royco.  It's just some crummy company his father used to run.

2 hours ago, Broderbits said:

I wouldn't say Greg is winning. Yes, he still has a job; but he's never going to be more than a boot-licking toady making do with scraps. A corporate joke.

Tom almost played himself with Greg.  If he had just told Greg that as long as he is at the company he would be taken care of Greg would not have been so scared of Mattson.  Tom assumed Greg was too stupid to try to watch his own back.  And perhaps he had reason under normal circumstances to think that but given Greg had access to both sides that was risky.

Unless Tom's real end game was to end any chance of Shiv and Mattson hooking up (both business wise and in real life)

2 hours ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

Now Mattson is free to hollow out the rotten news division and fire Ravenshead (I hope!)

With Gerri on board, all will be well.

This is about as close as we can get to a happy ending if Mattson follows through with it.  Makes me wish Elon Musk had bought Fox News/Newscorp instead of Twitter so we could see what the complete gutting of a media company looks like in real life!

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I kind of wanted Stewy to screw Kendall over, but that’s because I’ve always liked Stewy.

Totally thrilled that Logan is spinning in his grave screaming about how his children aren’t serious people.  

I expected Stewy to screw over Kendall too.  But I guess it was part of the drama to make us think Kendall had "won."  Still I do expect given the ratings success they will try to do a spinoff.  And a Stewy centered "Billions" type show about an Iranian-American vulture capitalist is something I could see.

 

36 minutes ago, aghst said:

Shiv didn't include herself, just that Kendall doesn't deserve it.  She looked like she hated Tom with the blazing heat of a hot white sun when she found out that Mattson would appoint Tom CEO.

But I guess hating her husband of a few years can't trump lifelong envy and hatred of her siblings.

It's one thing to betray her brothers but why would she go off with Tom?  She had told Mattson that Tom would suck the biggest dick.   Tom may now have the biggest title, something she coveted herself, but he's a figurehead and probably going to be a scapegoat as Mattson takes the hatchet to Waystar's assets.

So we didn't expect a "happy" ending but the Roys, while denied what they wanted most, walk away with billions each.  They have emotional issues and the one still nominally married can't be too thrilled with her husband.  Again, I don't get it, she is way richer than him and his title doesn't have the same meaning as the one she wanted.  She certainly can't have much respect for him, the way she talked about him and the things she said to his face.

Shiv going back to Tom now makes more sense.  Shiv throughout the series played on Tom's insecurities saying implicitly and even explicitly that he was out of her league.  That she was slumming with the help.  Only now that he's CEO does she even consider him being in her league.  She always viewed his ambitions as being pathetic and a joke.  She might humor him or she might ridicule him.  But she always undermined him both professionally and emotionally.  The funny thing is she ended up boosting him when she denigrated him to Mattson as being a pathetic lapdog since that was exactly what he was looking for in a CEO.

So now if even if she still looks down on him she has less ammunition to lord it over him.  Meaning they may be able to finally have a somewhat more balanced relationship.  That said his stay as CEO might be limited since he won't be needing an American CEO after regulatory approval.  He may get a nice golden parachute out of it.

 

So who was that guy who followed Kendall?  I was thinking federal agent or someone his family hired to follow him around or simply a bodyguard. 

 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Adgirl said:

Oh for sure--they're all horrible. However Shiv is the one who thought herself superior, smarter, in on the joke, but in reality, she's not as clever as she thinks she is--as Holly Hunter pointed out. 

Something that jumped out at me a lot when Logan first died and everyone insisted the boys be in charge; Roman was always making sure to include her. She was the one who couldn't focus or refused to cooperate.  I hate that what she did was so weighted by sibling rivalry.  

Shiv thinks she has nothing to prove but just like the boys she'd kill for the top job. 

I also commend the writers for not incorporating some epic speech about democracy, patriotism, or the role of media. I think we're all a little too far along for that.

There are a couple ways to read Shiv's change of heart. But I don't think rivalry of Ken was at the forefront or at all a factor. She knows (or thinks she knows) that she is better than him in every way and that her dad thought of her as better in every way other than possibly her lack of a penis.

But seeing how Ken conducted himself in the board room very well could have cemented that he would have destroyed Waystar. He couldn't even manage to get the speech out that they should retain the company together, and couldn't line up the votes for it. 

It also seems to me that Shiv was moved by wanting the best for Tom and their child. Even though she could have tried to be CEO Shiv it seems like she'd prefer to just be homemaker Shiv. In the end, she decided to follow the lead of Caroline in her second marriage and let a man who is less sharp than her take center stage. Kinda fitting, but kind of sad.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, nb360 said:

Also... why is Greg getting $200,000 for doing nothing (except getting coffee, sushi and lemon LeCroix)?

Because he's 2 metres of nepotism. 

3 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Shiv picks her ex husband over her brother.  

Husband. Although they were in the process of getting a divorce, as far as we have been shown, it was never finalized. As recently as two days ago in show time, they hosted a function together at their apartment.

And let's not forget father of her child. 

[gorgy]

We should've got an Animal House style ending:

• Shiv Lady Macbeth-ing it up while what's his name sends her blood in the mail
• Roman and Stewy fall in love
• Greg become a US Senator
• Kendall hasn't left Battery Park in 3 years
• Gerri and Carolina have a spin-off

[Paws]

18 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It also seems to me that Shiv was moved by wanting the best for Tom and their child. Even though she could have tried to be CEO Shiv it seems like she'd prefer to just be homemaker Shiv. In the end, she decided to follow the lead of Caroline in her second marriage and let a man who is less sharp than her take center stage. Kinda fitting, but kind of sad.

Agreed! Also, Tom was the last one to see her father and he was so gentle with her as Logan died. He was loyal to Logan; more so than her brothers, and I think that made a difference. Her brothers have screwed her over repeatedly. Tom only did so when he sided with Logan and when he took this job, neither of which she would really fault him for.

30 minutes ago, Taget said:

So who was that guy who followed Kendall?  I was thinking federal agent or someone his family hired to follow him around or simply a bodyguard. 

That was Colin, Logan’s bodyguard and sadly his best friend 

[Racj82]

I honestly think Ken lost Shiv when he said let's do this for Dad. It's like him saying, "okay let's put me in charge because that's what he wanted. He clearly thinks he deserved succession. Which would have always burned away at her. She literally winced when he said it...which led right into the vote.

[nb360]

Where can we go to listen to the soundtrack?

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

THIS. This is a British thing, I swear to god. Its always driven me nuts watching the show, because Americans (not me and none that I know!) don't talk like this. We don't. 

It's basically like ending thoughts with "isn't it" over and over which also annoys me. It's also not something Americans do. But, hey, maybe their mother did rub off on them in some way.

[Slade347]

I'm still processing how I feel about this episode and contemplating on whether I'll view this as a great finale or a bit of a letdown. 

There were a number of thinks I did love, though.

-The scenes with the siblings at their mother's house, followed by the complete opposite vibe we got at the board vote.

-Tom and Greg's little slap fight in the bathroom.

-Logan's dinner and the kids reaction to watching their father.

-Colin following Kendall around, like father like son.

-"New Jess!, New Jess!"

 

 

[nb360]

20 minutes ago, nb360 said:

Where can we go to listen to the soundtrack?

Here we go 🙂: https://variety.com/2023/artisans/news/succession-composer-nicholas-britell-season-4-soundtrack-1235626579/

 

[MBayGal]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

What I found most unbelievable is Matson would talk to Greg about the job that far before the board meeting.

He didnt talk to Greg. He and his people were speaking Swedish and Greg pulled up a translation app, which told him they weren't going to go with Shiv

[Avabelle]

What an ending - I have to hand it to the show, in all my predictions of what would happen I never saw it being Tom. 

[film noire]

 

5 hours ago, Adgirl said:

 However Shiv is the one who thought herself superior, smarter, in on the joke, but in reality, she's not as clever as she thinks she is--as Holly Hunter pointed out. 

Yes. And in the end, she's the wife waiting in the car; a wife looking for a way to make herself fit. What a brutal ending for Shiv, who always thought she mattered.

Edited May 29, 2023 by film noire

[millennium]

Kind of a so-what ending, but typical for this series.   I guess no one cares whether democracy survives -- maybe the show's way of saying it doesn't matter? -- but they did elevate the election question pretty prominently during the season.  To leave it unanswered, virtually unaddressed even, in the final episode, is negligent from a story-telling point of view IMO.

Lot of wasted time in the first two-thirds of this episode.   Thought the scenes at Caroline's would never end.   The final outcome was just the latest iteration of this series' predilection for bait-and-switch: lavish amounts of time are spent propping up characters who appear to be on the verge of becoming the heir/heirs apparent, only to have it all fall apart at the last moment.   What would have felt different for me is if Kendall, Roman and Shiv had actually pulled it off in the end.  Instead, we get the same old formula, the last in a long succession of let-downs for the Roy siblings.

Edited May 29, 2023 by millennium

[pennben]

Democracy was never the point of the show. It was  just a leverage point  in maneuvering  in the power struggle. Just a lever to pull. Show was true to itself through the end. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by pennben

[Temperance]

The baby name website Nameberry successfully predicted the ending based on Tom's last name. William "Bill" Wambsganss was a player in the 1920 World Series of American baseball. He is so far the only player in the World Series history to make an unassisted triple where he got three people out in one play. The woman who runs the Nameberry account pointed Tom basically has the same last name Wambsgans and he can make a triple play by getting all three Roy siblings out in the final half.

 It's clear Tom was going to win. Shiv's pregnancy was also probably a done deal from the beginning. I wanted both better and worse for these characters. Shiv probably realized Tom would win and wanted to be kept on board. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Temperance

[millennium]

15 minutes ago, pennben said:

Democracy was never the point of the show.

I wasn't suggesting that it was.   But the question of democracy vs. authoritarian rule, as well as the role of ANS in deciding the outcome of the election, was a significant plot element this season.   To cast it aside without a hint of resolution was a dissservice IMO.   But I agree the show remained true to itself in that this episode contained no real surprises or fresh twists.  It merely stayed the course.

Edited May 29, 2023 by millennium

[thuganomics85]

Well, shit!  I guess it's on me for always underestimating Tom.  I mean, sure, he might just be the empty suit/corporate puppet of Lukas if we want to get technical about it, but by all accounts?  He just won the game of Succession!!

Show managed to get me again and make me believe that the siblings would actually successfully pull off a united front and defeat Lukas once Shiv heard that he was planning on betraying her.  But in the end, it didn't matter because the idea of Kendall getting that position and having that much power was just too much for Shiv (and, at the end, Roman.)  Harsh, but I can't even really blame either one of them.  I sympathize and even "like" (as best as I can on this show) Kendall on some levels, but he has always been a deluded fuck-up in so many ways and despite the good game he could talk, I suspect it would have only been a matter of time before he did something that could have actually sent Waystar crashing down to the ground and no one getting anything.  So, while not much of a win on any level, I can see why Shiv decided she would be better off just being the new CEO's wife and stick with this loveless marriage.  At least that might give her some form of relevance and fame, even if it will likely make her dead inside.

Really curious about the fates of the Roy bros though.  Roman is clearly a mess and will always be one, but that smile at the end seemed to be one of the few times he showed genuine happiness, so I wonder if there is a slim chance that being out of the game might make him turn a new leaf.  Or, at the bare minimum, make him less of a sadistic fuck-up, heh.  As for Kendall, I honestly don't know right now.  I can see him spirally all the way down and having a tragic end.  I completely believe him that he thinks that he has only ever been good at doing this and he will be directionless going forward.  But part of me wants to believe that maybe he will actually finally grow from this and make amends for everything he has done.  Far-fetch perhaps, but dammit, I want to believe!

Ironic that Connor actually seems to be faring the best out of the family.  Granted, it sounds like he and Willa are preparing for a distant marriage so their love might still only carry them so far, but if they are happy and making it work, who am I to question it?

Fucking Greg, man!  He actually pulls a smart move for once, but it ends up backfiring on him.  And yet, he still comes out ahead thanks to Tom not knowing how to quit him.  He really is the luckiest bastard on the planet.  Granted, I wonder how long he will last since I'm unsure just how much power Lukas has and if he would be down with Tom keeping him around, but I won't underestimate him anymore.  Just watch: twenty years from now, he'll somehow be the fucking CEO!

Between the settlements and golden parachutes, Gerri, Frank, and Karl all seem to be smelling like roses now.  Team Old Guard for the win!

She might have only been in two episodes this season, but Harriet Walter made the most of her screen time.  Caroline is just a piece of work in every way and I love almost every minute of it!

Great acting all around as always: especially from the big three.  They struck gold when they casted these three for the roles.

Glad we got to work in one last Logan/Brian Cox appearance.  And who knew Karl could sing?!

Finding out that Greg has been making $200,000 (yearly?) this entire time is the perfect excuse to hate the rich, heh.

Wish we got more Stewy this season, but I enjoyed the moments we got!

Noticed that Tom was asking about Karolina at the end.  I wonder what that was all about?  And what will be the fate of Hugo?  Still think Jess might have made the best call to get out while she could.

Outside of a few pacing issues, I thought this was generally a great season (and Connor's Wedding is still one of the best hours of television I ever seen), and a satisfactory ending.  I was a little late with this show (didn't start watching live till the third season), but I'm glad I finally got onboard!  Standing ovation for Jesse Armstrong and everyone else involved, and its talented cast: especially Jeremy Strong, Brian Cox, Sarah Snook, Kieran Culkin, and Matthew Macfayden.  I will miss these unlikable, but strangely fascinating and enjoyable characters and this crazy world!

 

Now, fuck off!  (Sorry, I just feel like that was something Logan would want me to say!!)

[Pestilentia]

Well, it was "Meh" bordering on "Just OK" for me. Lots of rehashing arguments between the sibs we've heard 100 times already, empty promises coming out of everyone's mouths, and narcissism on parade with remaining 'parents' Caroline and (step) Peter being just awful trying to pitch a smarmy deal at the worst possible moment. 

It was just awful people doing awful things. Don't know what I expected but I did not find this satisfying at all.

[DrSparkles]

5 hours ago, Taget said:

 

Unless Tom's real end game was to end any chance of Shiv and Mattson hooking up (both business wise and in real life)

This is about as close as we can get to a happy ending if Mattson follows through with it.  Makes me wish Elon Musk had bought Fox News/Newscorp instead of Twitter so we could see what the complete gutting of a media company looks like in real life!

I expected Stewy to screw over Kendall too.  But I guess it was part of the drama to make us think Kendall had "won."  Still I do expect given the ratings success they will try to do a spinoff.  And a Stewy centered "Billions" type show about an Iranian-American vulture capitalist is something I could see.

 

Shiv going back to Tom now makes more sense.  Shiv throughout the series played on Tom's insecurities saying implicitly and even explicitly that he was out of her league.  That she was slumming with the help.  Only now that he's CEO does she even consider him being in her league.  She always viewed his ambitions as being pathetic and a joke.  She might humor him or she might ridicule him.  But she always undermined him both professionally and emotionally.  The funny thing is she ended up boosting him when she denigrated him to Mattson as being a pathetic lapdog since that was exactly what he was looking for in a CEO.

So now if even if she still looks down on him she has less ammunition to lord it over him.  Meaning they may be able to finally have a somewhat more balanced relationship.  That said his stay as CEO might be limited since he won't be needing an American CEO after regulatory approval.  He may get a nice golden parachute out of it.

 

So who was that guy who followed Kendall?  I was thinking federal agent or someone his family hired to follow him around or simply a bodyguard. 

 

 

WRT that first paragraph: dammmmnnnnnnnnn. 😮‍💨. If it’s true, Tom!

I wasn’t too impressed with the $200k salary for NYC. I don’t think it’s that big of a baller salary (again, for NYC).

What horrible people, what fantastic acting.

[Zaffy]

Well... we didn't become any wiser after this series finale. 
They basically recycled in 90mins what they were recycling for 4 full seasons.
Actually this episode could even be extended in a two hours movie and someone could watch it instead of  the whole series.

Overall, for me Succession was very well made, acting superb, directing really good, but I still firmly believe that this show should be 2 seasons long top.
Best episodes, last episode of season 3 and the one with Logan's death (which I consider top TV, creme de la creme).


Oh, and I didn't get at all Connor's sticker system....I would just grab what I wanted and leave 😁

Edited May 29, 2023 by Zaffy

[Notwisconsin]

8 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Shiv picks her ex husband over her brother.  

not ex.

[BlackberryJam]

Earlier in the episode, Shiv asked Tom about the possibility of reconciling so it's not like her choosing him came out of the blue. Tom wasn't into it until Mattson indicated that he (Lukas) and Shiv had sexual chemistry. 

I kind of loved that Tom put one of Connor's Who Wants Logan's Old Crap stickers on Greg's forehead.

Gerri, Karolina and Ebba for the win.

A great bit of acting on the part of the woman extra during the sibling fight in that conference room. You can see her with her forehead against the wall, unable to stomach watching them.

Edited May 29, 2023 by BlackberryJam

[Dminches]

I don't see it as Shiv chose Tom over Kendall.  Shiv chose Matsson over Kendall and the Roys.

While Tom is now CEO, he can easily be replaced since Matsson will effectively control the board. If Shiv had voted "nay", the Roys would not only have their CEO in place in Kendall, but also control the company.

Shiv did exactly what Logan was doing with the original GoJo deal.  He had decided that if he was not going to run the company anymore neither were any of the family, namely the kids.  

In the end, there was no "succession" and probably never was going to be.

 

[dmc]

8 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Shiv was still so completely oblivious even after she found out she wasn't going to be Mattson's pick for CEO. "Mattson took me seriously!" Oh, you sweet summer child. She didn't know she would be reversing the power between her and Tom as soon as she told Mattson that Tom would "suck the biggest dick in the room." That was exactly what Mattson wanted and Shiv basically picked Tom out for him in that moment.  And Tom was right that if it were the other way around, she would have totally screwed him over

I may need to rewatch.  But ultimately he did take her seriously.  This is essentially her plan without her as CEO. I keep seeing comments saying she should gotten a commitment. There are no commitments in business. He essentially will go the avenue that’s best for business.  I’m not sure that was ever Shiv.  But her plan was still smart to bypass regulatory. Also she’s the reason Gerri is back.  Ultimate his sexism led to him choosing Tom but this is her plan. 
 

I also need to rewatch the season.  I mostly feel like a happy ending wasn’t in the cards honestly for any of these people.  But I ended feeling bad and bleak for everyone. 
 

Shiv in a non working marriage because she wants some sort of home.  Roman starting how he finished the most honest of them.  Ken is the most adrift and still is. 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by dmc

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

I loved seeing Connor's video of the dinner. Seeing Kerry snuggle Logan. Gerri being bawdy. Elegant Frank.

And Logan relaxed and enjoying himself.  Something he never did with his kids.

8 hours ago, nb360 said:

I wonder what Tom and Shiv's child will be like

That poor child is going to be more screwed up than the Roy sibs.

It doesn't surprise me that the 3 of them couldn't hold it together for 24 hours.  Their mutual distrust sunk them and they are all miserable.  I'm not sure how to interpret Roman's grin.  Was he glad to be through with the games or was he smiling about receiving the punishment he felt he deserved?  The look on Shiv's face was totally defeated but I can't believe her leaving with Tom means she gave up and was just going to be a corporate wife and mother.  Would she think that was a better fate than the never ending games with her brothers?

2 hours ago, Temperance said:

The woman who runs the Nameberry account pointed Tom basically has the same last name Wambsgans and he can make a triple play by getting all three Roy siblings out in the final half.

If that (an obscure name in baseball history) was the end game from the first inkling of an idea for a series, I am extremely impressed with the show runners.

[The Hound Lives]

All the comments about how Greg is nothing but a lapdog. With the sticker Tom put on his head, he’s been officially crowned the new Tom. The “yes” man. Willing to, metaphorically, suck all the dicks. Tom holds the brass ring; Greg is sitting pretty for the cycle to continue. 
This fear of Mencken and his fascist ideals didn’t make a difference, and it doesn’t because the Roy children care about power not purpose. And Mattsen, as progressive as he may seem, has proved to be far more dangerous. 
I’ll have to revisit the episode but it’s been an average HBO ride at times. I’m glad Roman got away from this family. For all the hate he  received, and well deserved at times, he is nowhere near the level of some of these fools.

[abronfeld1]

It's a story old as time- from Cain and Abel through to King Lear. Sibling rivalry and jealousy prevented the three Roy offspring from accepting any one of them from besting the other two. Better to sell out the family business and identity than to have any one of the three lead it. They could fake being adults with the rest of the world, but would quickly revert to their childhood identities when they were together. Once you got past all the unpredictable twists and turns, you realize that the end result was preordained in their DNA.

[MamaBird]

3 hours ago, millennium said:

But the question of democracy vs. authoritarian rule, as well as the role of ANS in deciding the outcome of the election, was a significant plot element this season.   To cast it aside without a hint of resolution was a dissservice IMO.   

They did give a hint of possible resolution - though it was very slight, and I'd hoped for more.  Shiv made a remark about "the Wisconsin court case"; and that Mencken might not win after all.

[nb360]

I initially couldn't understand what Greg meant when he asked Kendall, "Can I quad it up?" But now I realize it was a reference to the "Quad Squad" (The Roy siblings and him) from a few episodes ago.

[ahpny]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

There are no commitments in business. He essentially will go the avenue that’s best for business.  I’m not sure that was ever Shiv.  But her plan was still smart to bypass regulatory. Also she’s the reason Gerri is back.  Ultimate his sexism led to him choosing Tom but this is her plan. 

Why did Tom trust and rely upon Lukas following through about choosing Tom after Lukas had already backed out of choosing Shiv, without even without telling her? How could Tom know that Lukas wasn't also auditioning others for the role? Yes, Tom was the obsequious supplicant that Lukas wanted, and Shiv was too opinionated, entitled and non-deferential to smile silently in the background as Lukas pulled all the strings. But Lukas' track record of being erratic and failing to keep his promises should have been more troubling to Tom than it seemed to be. Then again, as Karl pointed out, Tom's never been the sharpest tack in the box. Maybe Tom choosing to believe Lukas was Tom's best play given his strained connection to Shiv. Where would he be had the "quad squad" won? Tom seemed easily to pass Lukas' docility/malleability test by remaining fully in passive mode without a hint of objection, outrage, or concern as Lukas contemplated screwing Shiv. Tom eagerly sucked up to his prospective figurehead role, which confirmed exactly what Shiv said about him.