S04.E08: America Decides

[TexasGal]

Quote

On election night, Tom tries to manage an increasingly chaotic newsroom, while the siblings spar over the outcome.

Airdate: 05.14.2023

[Penman61]

This ep should've come with a trigger warning for 2016 and 2020 election night PTSD sufferers.

[Jordan Baker]

That might be the most depressing hour of episodic television I've ever watched.

I am now solidly Team Shiv.

[beaker73]

I feel like I’ve just relived a nightmare.  That was hella stressful.  

[Guest]

Dang. 
 

That was intense. Two episodes in a row ending primarily with Shiv at odds with important guys in her life. I really don’t know where she goes from here; I mean, from the show, she’s leaning into the Mattson deal, but other than that?

[juno]

Just now, deaja said:

Dang. 
 

That was intense. Two episodes in a row ending primarily with Shiv at odds with important guys in her life. I really don’t know where she goes from here; I mean, from the show, she’s leaning into the Mattson deal, but other than that?

Very intense, but I have learned over the years that if the 3 of them just leave some things alone they would probably succeed. They just keep getting in the way of their own success. Shiv may have just brought all 3 of them down.

[jeansheridan]

4 minutes ago, juno said:

Shiv may have just brought all 3 of them down.

What do you mean? She may have brought herself down. I guess she didn't scare Greg enough. Ug.

[DrSpaceman73]

8 minutes ago, beaker73 said:

I feel like I’ve just relived a nightmare.  That was hella stressful.  

Or saw a horrific vision of 2024. 

I thought they were going to end tied with Alaska in the balance and then Connor miraculously wins alaska

[jeansheridan]

That was all so depressing.  And Roman just jumped the shark for me as a character. I am not sure how I could ever root for him again. The only real people to him are his family. He has been awful before but there seemed to be growth. Not any more. He needs to be neutralized. Not killed just taken away from power.

When I think about it, had Logan been Shiv, Greg would have been removed from that building. A task or errand far far away. The moment she knew he knew her business, gone. Leaving him alone was a huge mistake.

[beaker73]

14 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Or saw a horrific vision of 2024. 

I thought they were going to end tied with Alaska in the balance and then Connor miraculously wins alaska

Yep. I totally thought Alaska was somehow going to come into play. 

[BlackberryJam]

I’m not one to enjoy feeling tense during my entertainment viewing. I just got so invested into a fictional election. 

Roman is absolutely circling the drain. 

Tom is going to be absolutely crucified in the media for his calling it. Ken and Roman are going to hang him out to dry.

[DrSpaceman73]

21 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I’m not one to enjoy feeling tense during my entertainment viewing. I just got so invested into a fictional election. 

Roman is absolutely circling the drain. 

Tom is going to be absolutely crucified in the media for his calling it. Ken and Roman are going to hang him out to dry.

I think it's tense because while 'fictional', we all know how close to the truth it really could be. 

[Mr. R0b0t]

Roman's lightsaber is definitely red.

[nb360]

I didn't enjoy this episode -- too much like real life and real election contests. I watch "Succession" to kind of fantasize about living the life of the 1%. This... just wasn't it. I have to think about it, a little.

[maddie965]

I can't believe that knowing Shiv was pregnant had absolutely no effect on Tom. I was hoping he would somehow align with Shiv and not call Arizona. Stupid me. They all deserve each other. And people like them are the reason it's all going to hell.

This episode was too close to home to be enjoyable.

[Zaffy]

ok, please inform the ignorant Greek here: why it is so important if a channel/network  calls or not a result? 
Shouldn't they just wait for the official results? I am kind of confused.

Other than that, I am also confused with Roman..I thought he has showed some glimpses of having feelings, but tonite he was just a sociopath. Ok, they are horrible people, but I had the feeling the writers were trying to do some redemption for them..I dunno.. the whole "This is what Dad would do" thing is well..psychosis. They are all  nuts, literally. They screw a whole country because they have daddy issues. I mean.. wth?

I am definitely Team-Shiv, but I am not sure for how long, since the writers of the show seem to turn off and on various switches on our main characters. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

That gave me some unpleasant flashbacks. I had to keep reminding myself it was fiction. Scariest part? The fact that Mencken was so articulate.

Tom and Shiv play so many games with each other that Tom didn't even believe Shiv when she told him she was pregnant with his baby! I can't wait to see it hit him for real.

I didn't know Conner's slogan was Enough Already! LOL. I also liked Frank, Hugo and company joking "Conner's running for President?"

It is fully Shiv against her brothers now. God it was awkward watching her try to talk her way out of it after Kendall found what was up from Nate and Greg. And Greg is such an idiot--he looked right at Shiv when he was talking to Kendall so that she would know for sure that they were talking about her. Of course Greg is going to spill the beans to whoever is in his face, especially if it's Kendall or Tom. Those are his boys.

I hope that ATN loses all credibility now but it doesn't look like that will happen. I mean, if all the other news outlets followed suit and called the election along with them, it's like putting toothpaste back in the tube or something. Roman is the worst "we just made good TV; nothing happens." Yeah, to you, you tool. Maybe Tom will take a hit at least and lose everything.

I kind of want a pair of Mattson's pants to hang around and watch election results in.

Inevitably it will be Roman vs. Kendall. I hope Mattson and Shiv weaken them somewhat or Mencken screws them over in a different way. As in, he will honor their deal but do something unexpected that really screws up their plans.

Only two more episodes!

Edited May 15, 2023 by DoubleUTeeEff

[jeansheridan]

16 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

can't believe that knowing Shiv was pregnant had absolutely no effect on Tom.

I can. Her timing was bad. How she told him was bad. And it WAS a play, even if it is true she was pregnant. 

What I can't believe is she would fake a call to Nate. That seemed like bad writing for this show. But she is off her game a bit. 

Kendall feels more and more like Michael Corleone. He wants to be good but the world pushes him one way and he's good at being evil. Although he did have a reason to be angry with her. 

[Mr. R0b0t]

2 minutes ago, Zaffy said:

ok, please inform the ignorant Greek here: why it is so important if a channel/network  calls or not a result? 

Because it begins to cement that decision into the psyche of the voters.  It's hard to walk it back and reverse course without creating a whole different set of problems.  Especially in the current version of America.

[kathe5133]

Don't want to be spoiled, so not reading yet, but......  I've always found politics to be mind numbingly dull.  This episode has done nothing to dissuade me from that notion.  Needed to take a break, and then I'll finish.  I hope it's worth it!

 

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

That was all so depressing.  And Roman just jumped the shark for me as a character. I am not sure how I could ever root for him again. The only real people to him are his family. He has been awful before but there seemed to be growth. Not any more. He needs to be neutralized. Not killed just taken away from power.

When I think about it, had Logan been Shiv, Greg would have been removed from that building. A task or errand far far away. The moment she knew he knew her business, gone. Leaving him alone was a huge mistake.

I dont root for any of these people. So, no shark to jump for me. There are levels of shittyness through all the characters. But, I don't route for any of them to "win" and I don't expect them to grow much.

[Penman61]

14 minutes ago, Zaffy said:

ok, please inform the ignorant Greek here: why it is so important if a channel/network  calls or not a result? 
Shouldn't they just wait for the official results? I am kind of confused.

 

Oversimple answer: A major network calling the election first on election night gives the “winner” a big boost in the “narrative,” which should, as you suggest, be 100% separate from the official counting and certification of ballots (which can take days or even weeks.)

BUT, as we in the U.S. found out in 2000, 2016, 2020, and seem destined to find out again in 2024, setting the narrative can influence any of the hundreds or thousands of rulings/decisions by individual localities and courts about what to count, recount, etc.

Ideally, every single one of those decisions should be walled off from media predictions, from the narrative. In practice, this is not so. 

I was only mildly exaggerating in my first post up top. It is actually terrifying how real this episode feels, how untethered from actual vote counts our elections are becoming.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Penman61

[DrSpaceman73]

2 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I can. Her timing was bad. How she told him was bad. And it WAS a play, even if it is true she was pregnant. 

What I can't believe is she would fake a call to Nate. That seemed like bad writing for this show. But she is off her game a bit. 

Kendall feels more and more like Michael Corleone. He wants to be good but the world pushes him one way and he's good at being evil. Although he did have a reason to be angry with her. 

Except Michael corleone knew he had to be all in and do some very bad things in order to gain control and then steer things in a 'legitimate' direction. Or at least in his own direction. Michael was his own man and did things his own way independent of his dad

Kendall has been unable to do that. He tries to act like his dad, but he's not and it doesn't work.  In fact he seems devoid of any personality, goals or strcture of his own.  Which is why he fails.  Ego dystonic is the psychiatric term.  He acts contrary to his own internal beliefs, values and instincts based on the expectations of others and based on how his father acted.  

Michael corleone was ego syntonic in his methods once he entered the family business despite his initial hesitation to become involved. 

[txhorns79]

36 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

I can't believe that knowing Shiv was pregnant had absolutely no effect on Tom.

In fairness to Tom, they had a huge fight the night before where they said a lot of things that can't be walked back.  He's been told over and over that he's nothing to this family.  Shiv also has an agenda vis a vis the night's events, so I can easily see why he didn't trust her or go to her side, even when it became clear she was telling him the truth about the pregnancy. 

 

5 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

 

Kendall has been unable to do that. He tries to act like his dad, but he's not and it doesn't work.  In fact he seems devoid of any personality, goals or strcture of his own.  Which is why he fails.  Ego dystonic is the psychiatric term.  He acts contrary to his own internal beliefs, values and instincts based on the expectations of others and based on how his father acted.  

True.  Logan could have shut Roman up in a moment.  Kendall gets run over by him. 

I'm very curious to see what happens with the election numbers guy.  I wonder if he will somehow be the undoing of all of them.

[thuganomics85]

Well, I use to always say that I bounce around between which Roy sibling I think is the worst, but after tonight and only two episodes left ever, I think I'm going to pull an ATN and call it: Roman Roy?  You are the worst fucking Roy sibling!  Thanks for possibly giving us a fascist president, you dick!

Granted, all of the siblings kind of face planted here, with Shiv being the only one trying to do the right thing, but making some blunders that she really should had saw coming a mile away.  She really should have known that "pretending" to call Nate could easily be refuted if Kendall did his own due diligence, and for whatever flaws he has, that's not that far of a reach to assume, so she should have prepared... I don't know, something to avoid that.  Hell, she was already lying: why not fully commit, claim Jimerez did say he will kill the deal, and then deal with the consequences after?  And then, of course, there was her attempt to get Greg in line, which naturally backfired.  That weasel will always scamper to Tom and Kendall over anyone else, and there was nothing to gain with the way she approached him.  So, yeah, she screwed things up here.  But, again, she was at least trying to avoid this nightmare, so I'll give her that, even if it was true that all of it aligned perfectly with her own goals.

And then there is Kendall.  Who continues to find out how much Mencken rhetoric and polices are doing harm to his own family; let alone all the other people he probably barely gives a damn about; gets upset and questions if he is a good father for allowing this to happen, but once he finds out about Shiv deception, he just throws away any chance of saving democracy; hell, his own family; purely out of spite.  Nice going, buddy.  I hope you remember this every time you hear about the abuse your poor daughter continues to receive.

As for Roman, well, again, he's the worst.  And just like last season, you just know being the "top guy" will make him ten times more insufferable.  Only solace here is that I suspect it won't be for long.

I do like the idea of Tom possibly being a scapegoat for the Democrats about calling this early, even if he was following Kendall and Roman's orders technically.  I wonder if it will get out somehow that he was doing cocaine as well?

Always great seeing Adam Godley.

Ah, they found a way to bring back Ravenhead one last time.  Fuck that guy!

Wish we had seen more of Jimerez before this, but I did think the glimpses of him made it believable why it was so close.  He was clearly the better choice, but you could see why he was probably considered "boring" by many and didn't energize the fanbase to go all out to vote.  And you just know that Mencken and his ilk probably went all out in the smear campaigns.

Tom's reaction to Shiv's pregnancy was both cold as ice but strangely understandable because why would he believe anything she says at this point?

Connor was extra cringe tonight.

Acting was great as always: this time, I think I'll give MVP to both Sarah Snook and Jeremy Strong .

I guess there still could be a chance that this could get overturned/a recount of some kind, but I'm guessing ATN calling it will define the narrative, and probably still help Mencken get into the Oval Office.  Hope Shiv holds true to her word and does go to war with Kendall and Roman, but I don't trust Lukas in the slightest, so I still think she won't come out ahead either.  Really, I suspect this is going to be a rough ending for most everyone involved.  Couldn't happen to a nicer group of delusional sociopaths, as far as I'm concerned!

Edited May 15, 2023 by thuganomics85

[jeansheridan]

12 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Michael corleone was ego syntonic in his methods once he entered the family business despite his initial hesitation to become involved. 

Neat! I think it was Ken walking in from the dark hallway into the light that made me think of it. Plus his dark eyes and hair. And maybe how he thinks he can keep his family separate from his professional actions. But I don't know The Godfather that well. It was more a vibe for me.

[gorgy]

I can't wait to see Roman go down

[lucindabelle]

I had been feeling sorry for Roman but his mocking support for the fascist was disgusting.

it was not a false flag and he knew it.

I too would love to see Tim hung out to dry. I was proud of Shiv for telling him because she’s right there’s never a good time. They fight whenever they see one another. She sort of buried the lede but I guess her plan was to make up then tell him, but he wasn’t making up.

that people find Jimene “boring” says everything about the state of American politics. It’s not MEANT to be entertainment.

 

mencken’s speech about purity and cleanliness and mocking pluralism and compromise was terrifying. Basically his version of democracy is that the people choose a leader and the leader does the rest.

 

actually Ken may be even worse than Roman because he DOES know better he VISCERALLY knows how bad it can get mad I don’t think Roman truly does. 

[BlackberryJam]

So...if the election ends up going to Jimenez and ATN shenanigans are revealed, does ATN stock tank, bringing down Waystar, Mattson pull out of the deal and the Roys keep a mostly worthless company?

Edited May 15, 2023 by BlackberryJam

[Irlandesa]

2016?  2020?  Possible 2024?

But don't forget the modern OG clusterfuck: 2000.  Burnt ballots can be the new hanging chads.

49 minutes ago, Zaffy said:

ok, please inform the ignorant Greek here: why it is so important if a channel/network  calls or not a result? 
Shouldn't they just wait for the official results? I am kind of confused.

It can take weeks to fully count all of the ballots in an election.  The country doesn't really have the patience for that so they project winners based on the results/returns that are known. The presumptive winner holds an advantage as the desire for certainty grows even if that means the wrong person is declared the winner. (*wrong in a they didn't really get enough votes  but it'd take too long to sort out the real winner kind of way.)  That's why Roman was so insistent on having ATN call the election because even though the burnt ballots would disenfranchise tons of voters, it'd allow Mencken to proceed as the winner.  The other networks probably won't have called it.  But ATN calling it means Mencken can give a speech.

Roman is awful but at least that's what he's trying to be.  Kendall is almost worse because he knows Shiv is right but doesn't care.  I can't wait until Mencken screws him over.

Connor almost looked presidential for a few moments.  Almost. 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Irlandesa

[Marley]

I’m obviously in real life for democracy, but somehow in this show I’m against Shiv. She’s being so dumb with Mattson and she fucked it up on her own. I don’t think she actually cares about the future of the country. She is mad because she felt iced out.

Where was Geri the whole time? Was that a choice on purpose.

Jeryd Mencken is obv disgusting. I have a soft spot for the actor tho lol.

I’m so tired of Mattson and Skarsgard like it’s dragging the show to a halt for me.

[Dac22]

30 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

actually Ken may be even worse than Roman because he DOES know better he VISCERALLY knows how bad it can get mad I don’t think Roman truly does. 

I think Roman is fully aware and simply doesn't care.

It doesn't impact him personally and it gives him an advantage as Mencken is his buddy. Kendall even pointed out how Mencken being in the White House gives Roman an edge.

I also don't think Shiv was driven completely by her morals as self-interest played a huge part. She needed Jimenez to win so the deal goes through. It just so happened her self-interests aligned with her stance so she wasn't put in a position to compromise like Kendall was.  

In the background to all of the political stuff, I think it was a power play among the siblings with Roman winning this battle. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Dac22

[Mstk3000]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Or saw a horrific vision of 2024. 

I thought they were going to end tied with Alaska in the balance and then Connor miraculously wins alaska

Exactly, or sort of, since winner takes all.  Alaska kept coming up in other networks’ coverage on screen.  I really thought that at the end all of the dithering about whether to call Wisconsin would come to nothing because Connor played a role after all - Nadering Mencken’s chance in Alaska and giving Alaska’s electoral votes to Jimenez.  I still think that has to be relevant because, you know, Chekhov’s gun.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

I can. Her timing was bad. How she told him was bad. And it WAS a play, even if it is true she was pregnant. 

What I can't believe is she would fake a call to Nate. That seemed like bad writing for this show. But she is off her game a bit. 

Kendall feels more and more like Michael Corleone. He wants to be good but the world pushes him one way and he's good at being evil. Although he did have a reason to be angry with her. 

I can understand why she would fake a call to Nate. Some possible reasons to come to mind:

1. She knows Nate is never ever going to flat-out do a quid pro quo with ATN over this the way Kendall wants. As she told them, that's not their style.

2. She doesn't want to even ask because Nate will see that ask as improper and either way the election goes it blows up in their faces. If Jimenez wins, Jimenez is not likely to honor the "deal," and if Mencken wins, Nate gets to say that a high ranking ATN official demanded a quid pro quo. and raise questions about the call/Mencken blocking the Matsson/Waystar deal. 

3. She can't explain this to Kendall because he's an idiot who's convinced of his own goodness and genius. So she pretends to call Nate and plays along.

4. She had no reason to think that Kendall is going to immediately doubt her word and check with Nate, or find out that she and Matsson are in cahoots.

5. Shiv being Team Matsson, she has extra incentive to block attempts to block the deal.

And you compared Kendall to the wrong Corleone brother. He is like a mix of Sonny's temper and Fredo's insecurities and incompetence. 

[kittykat]

A moment of silence for Kendall Roy's soul.

Not to keep comparing Succession episodes to GoT but that was Blackwater levels of intense with a side of Kendall and Tom going bell ringing bonkers.

He picked his beloved job over his family!  Roman just wants to win.  Shiv is right but plays her cards all wrong and Kendall wants to stick it to Logan from beyond that he too can be a kingmaker.  You've all already lost, Logan still wins even from a coffin. 

[Penman61]

OMG the ep title is ironic.

[buttersister]

Holy crap, apparently I have PSTD.

Rava, do me and yourself a favor, keep Kendall away from your daughter. 

At the end, I took a breath and realized this is far from over. Beyond the funeral and whatever Marcia has up her sleeve, the best is yet to come. The best, for me, being Kendall and Roman in the toilet. Tom absolutely fucked. And somehow, as damaged as she is, Shiv living happily ever after.

[gorgy]

less than a 1% chance we get the Seinfeld finale where everybody ends up in jail, but I'd be satisfied with that

[aghst]

4 hours ago, Zaffy said:

ok, please inform the ignorant Greek here: why it is so important if a channel/network  calls or not a result? 
Shouldn't they just wait for the official results? I am kind of confused.

Other than that, I am also confused with Roman..I thought he has showed some glimpses of having feelings, but tonite he was just a sociopath. Ok, they are horrible people, but I had the feeling the writers were trying to do some redemption for them..I dunno.. the whole "This is what Dad would do" thing is well..psychosis. They are all  nuts, literally. They screw a whole country because they have daddy issues. I mean.. wth?

I am definitely Team-Shiv, but I am not sure for how long, since the writers of the show seem to turn off and on various switches on our main characters. 

Yeah I'm not sure that ATN calling a particular state or the election has that much weight.  But they imply that Mencken winning the GOP nomination and now the general were both long shots until ATN pushed the thumb on the scale.

I know in real life, certain networks making projections was controversial, especially to some parts of the electorate.  But no way is the Wisconsin results not going to be contested for months.  There may not be provisions for re-voting but no way they're just going to let one side deliberately take ballots and burn them and accept incomplete results.

But the point was to show how even Kendall lets Roman get away with it.  He had qualms, after the way  Sophie was treated, but Shiv lying about calling Nate seemed to have made him throw in with Roman.

Roman has acted out impulsively and emotionally before, that's not something new, like the way he bickered with Mattson in Norway.  Or rashly firing Gerri.  However, he was emotional yet unusually assertive or seemed very sure what he wanted to do.

Is it mainly transactional for Roman, that is Mencken will block Mattson's acquisition of Waystar or is he also a bit of a true believer?  He hand waves the burning of the ballots and jokes about his side shooting Shiv's side if they should win the election.

About the only funny lines were Connor reciting the list of countries he could be ambassador to, though Willa seemed to look grim about it.  IRL, those ambassadorships would go to major donors or backers, not rival candidates.

OK so thinking about it more, I guess Tom forcing Greg to do coke with him was meant to be funny.  Or telling Greg that he was back to being Greg on Election Night and bodega sushi wasn't good enough.  But it was apparently good enough for Greg that he got wasabi in Dawson's eyes and then tried to rise them out with La Croix, which is just a hint of lemony.

The stuff with the touchscreens didn't really go anywhere.

Edited May 15, 2023 by aghst

[millennium]

I was bugged by the false impression that ATN operates in a vacuum.    Not once did I hear anyone asking what the other networks were announcing/calling.   The show proceeds from the premise that ATN is the only network that matters.  In real life that simply isn't the case.   No one network speaks for all of America (yet).

Rather than a decision-maker Kendall seemed to me a Pontius Pilate, uncertain, making a pronouncement that conflicts with his gut, then immediately seeking to wash his hands of his choice.   Pilate used water; Kendall tries to justify it in terms of business.

Roman is obviously a sociopath and has been all along.

They are the hollow men.

This episode was very tense but it had little to do with the writing or acting.   It brought to life an existential threat we've had to live with for too long and made it seem plausible.   Kind of like that movie "The Day After."

Edited May 15, 2023 by millennium

[Dminches]

With only 2 episodes / days left I doubt we wilL ever know the real outcome of the election. Thus, we had to sit through an hour of election night coverage for the divide to occur and Shiv’s alignment with Matsson to be exposed. I wish they could have done it differently. Not my cup of team of viewing. 
 

[Haleth]

Oh, please let all the Milwaukee ballots be found in fireproof boxes!

[dmc]

I felt as sick as I did in 2016 and 2020.  Bravo to the writers.  
 

I had two cups of sleepy time tea to fall asleep 

 

I almost never have spoilers because I hate them but I have one.  Added to the spoilers thread.  

Edited May 15, 2023 by dmc

[Lassus]

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away Justin Kirk was camped out for three months in my living room in NYC after we moved his stuff out of his girlfriends' place at 3 AM; she got there at 5 AM and threw coins at the windows from 49th street.  So awesome to see him doing well and he is always very fun to watch.  So while horrifying fictionally, I am personally glad he's out in front for now.  ;-)

I have thought a bit about the end here and the post above from Haleth makes a bit of sense.  Funeral next week, election curveball the week following?  Everything comes crashing down?

I think more likely, however, is a post farther up, where little changes at all and Jesse Armstrong David Chases the finale.  Not a blackout, but no matter what happens, things just keep on keeping on for the wealthy.  

Edited May 15, 2023 by Lassus

[Blakeston]

None of Roman's behavior was remotely surprising to me. I've always regarded him as the worst of the Roy siblings, because he's always been uniquely amoral and sadistic.

Connor can be kind. Kendall can at least feel remorse. And I think Shiv has some genuine concern about the state of the country, and that she would turn ATN into something less evil if given the chance.

But Roman is both a bully and a weasel, and he has outright contempt for the concept of doing the right thing. I can't imagine any of the Roy siblings doing what Roman did in the pilot, and taunting the little boy over losing out on a million dollars. 

It takes a real asshole to stand out as the worst of this bunch of siblings, but Roman has managed it.

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, millennium said:

I was bugged by the false impression that ATN operates in a vacuum.    Not once did I hear anyone asking what the other networks were announcing/calling.   The show proceeds from the premise that ATN is the only network that matters.  In real life that simply isn't the case.   No one network speaks for all of America (yet).

There were references to what other networks -- presumably the Succession universe's parallels to NewsMax and OAN -- were doing, and we saw the clip on PGN about how Tom personally made the call at ATN. 

Yes, I would expect there to be much more focus on what PGN did. not to mention the Associated Press, online versions of legacy media, etc. But it could be a function of the Roys being so narrowly focused on the "what's in it for us?" and "how do we compare to Daddy?" and less skilled/focused on either the true business or journalistic aspects of ATN. It could reflect the confidence/arrogance that ATN does believe/act like they are the only network that matters and that it DOES speak for the only part of America that matters. Or it could be that the Succession powers that be wanted to keep the focus on what was shown rather than go on tangents on discussions about what the competition was doing. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Chicago Redshirt

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

None of Roman's behavior was remotely surprising to me. I've always regarded him as the worst of the Roy siblings, because he's always been uniquely amoral and sadistic.

I feel like in Season 3 in particular they gave him a little bit of a redemption arc but rewatching old episodes, and it is hard to find any reason to root for him at all. Yes, he had horrible parents and particularly an abusive father, but it just doesn't justify his horrible behavior.

 

[Enigma X]

33 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

None of Roman's behavior was remotely surprising to me. I've always regarded him as the worst of the Roy siblings, because he's always been uniquely amoral and sadistic.

Connor can be kind. Kendall can at least feel remorse. And I think Shiv has some genuine concern about the state of the country, and that she would turn ATN into something less evil if given the chance.

But Roman is both a bully and a weasel, and he has outright contempt for the concept of doing the right thing. I can't imagine any of the Roy siblings doing what Roman did in the pilot, and taunting the little boy over losing out on a million dollars. 

It takes a real asshole to stand out as the worst of this bunch of siblings, but Roman has managed it.

 

I agree with all of this. Which is why I have always been annoyed by Roman the most. I am more annoyed with Roman than I was with Logan. My annoyance with Tom (for different reasons) is a close second.

[ahpny]

9 hours ago, maddie965 said:

I can't believe that knowing Shiv was pregnant had absolutely no effect on Tom.

He was coked up, sleep deprived and running on fumes, so that seemed plausible. Of course, even when running on all cylinders, his horsepower is still rather low. But had he been more fully present, he would have likely questioned whether he was indeed the father, why he should believe Shiv saying that he was, and why she'd chosen this particular time to dump this information on him.

I'd like to believe that this fictional account is just that - merely fiction. But sadly it seems frighteningly closer to reality than many care to recognize.

[BeckyThatcher]

Kendall and Fikret echoing Logan and Colin brought a painful quiet sense of loneliness, isolation, and loss as the last beat of a heart pounding episode. 

Kendall seeking self- justification by verbalizing his need to blame others, to wash his hands of responsibility by muttering to his driver, who cannot respond, is Kendall only speaking in an echo chamber.