S01.E02: Honeymoon Bliss

[Door County Cherry]

Quote

Frustrated by her first days of marriage to the mysterious and mercurial king, a lonely Charlotte finds a confidante and advisor in Lady Agatha Danbury. 

 

[Orcinus orca]

So Lady Dansbury had four "gigantic" children.  I don't think we ever knew that she had kids.

Poor Charlotte, eating alone every night being watched by a dozen strangers. She's the one who should have gone mad, not George!  I would have.

A "deformed bunny" - heh.

Lady Danbury confronting the King's mum - whoboy, that took some kind of guts.  Love the deal-making and we learned about her family's history in Sierra Leone.  Great scene.

 

[Baltimore Betty]

I know this is a theatrical story telling based on King George and Queen Charlotte, I have so many questions about their time in history which has led to Googling info and so much is unknown I can enjoy the story the Shonda Rhimes has put together, the costumes and sets, etc...it is a nice escape.

About 30 years ago I saw "The Madness of King George," it seemed awful for him, there was no real help for him and now as Paul Harvey would say we get "the rest of the story,"  not really the rest of it but in addition to.

[Harvey]

Wow, Penelope is really going in on the Queen in the "current" timeline, time and time again. I wonder why she is so beliigerent to her. Is it because that is what drives sales, or does she really not like her queen? Will season 3 address these aspects when we will inevitably deal with Penelope being Whistledown? Mind you, she is writing these lines after Kate & Anthony are married and Eloise already knows about her identity.

[Orcinus orca]

31 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Wow, Penelope is really going in on the Queen in the "current" timeline, time and time again. I wonder why she is so beliigerent to her. Is it because that is what drives sales, or does she really not like her queen? Will season 3 address these aspects when we will inevitably deal with Penelope being Whistledown? Mind you, she is writing these lines after Kate & Anthony are married and Eloise already knows about her identity.

Penelope isn't even born in this series.

[Sailorgirl26]

48 minutes ago, Orcinus orca said:

Penelope isn't even born in this series.

In the flashbacks with the young queen and young Lady Danbury, of course not. 

But the timeline with Violet, the Queen, and Lady Danbury as adults is current with the Bridgerton series.

It's a valid question. 

[Enero]

1 hour ago, Harvey said:

Wow, Penelope is really going in on the Queen in the "current" timeline, time and time again. I wonder why she is so beliigerent to her. Is it because that is what drives sales, or does she really not like her queen? Will season 3 address these aspects when we will inevitably deal with Penelope being Whistledown? Mind you, she is writing these lines after Kate & Anthony are married and Eloise already knows about her identity.

That's one area where this series missed the mark. We did not need Lady Whistledown's snark here. The writers could've easily presented what was up with Queen Charlotte and her family without it. It didn't take anything away from the show having Lady Whistledown's commentary, but it didn't add any susbstance either.  

[DanaMB]

But Penelope is Lady W, and Lady W is in this series. 

[shapeshifter]

I thought King George "went mad" later in life, so I thought maybe he was avoiding his 17-year-old bride for a month so no gossip could arise about the baby not being his — that is, if she didn't have a baby for at least 10 months, no gossips could suggest she was already pregnant by someone in her home country when she married the King. 
Then I wondered if he just really didn't want to miss the Transit of Venus. It was a big deal when it happened while I was working as a college librarian. 
But Wikipedia seems to indicate the King's mental health deteriorated about age 30, which he could be now. (IRL the 2 actors are only 3 years apart.)

Poor Lady Danbury having to take it from the hideous Lord Danbury! "Troll" and "beast" might apply as descriptors!
At least she is smart enough to make the best of things.
And thank goodness she has someone to draw her a bath each time!
IRL, Cyril Nri, who plays the odious Lord D, is actually quite svelte and nice looking:

[CarpeFelis]

Charlotte asking if it was possible to avoid her head hitting the wall made me laugh and then think, poor Lady Danbury! All her experiences of sex have been with her oaf of a husband.

And speaking of Lord Danbury — he actually thinks they were given their estate because the king thinks so highly of him? It’s such a shame that a woman as intelligent as Lady Danbury got stuck with such a moron.

[Harvey]

6 hours ago, Orcinus orca said:

Nichola Coughlan is not in this series.  Therefore posting about how Penelope will address the issues belongs in the Bridgerton thread, it's not pertinent here. 

Just sayin'....

She is in the series. She is doing the narration, in case you missed it 🙂

[Sailorgirl26]

9 hours ago, DanaMB said:

But Penelope is Lady W, and Lady W is in this series. 

And Violet specifically references her when she's talking about the children. So is the character/actress physically in the series? No. Does the character exist in the series? Absolutely. 

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, DanaMB said:

But Penelope is Lady W, and Lady W is in this series. 

1 hour ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

And Violet specifically references her when she's talking about the children. So is the character/actress physically in the series? No. Does the character exist in the series? Absolutely. 

I've only seen up to this episode and don't want to be spoiled (or spoil), but I guess the question might be:
Is there anything in this prequel+flashforwards that will tie in to the Penelope story that is the subject of the yet-to-be released season 3 of Bridgerton.

So far it doesn't look like it. 

[CarpeFelis]

8 hours ago, Harvey said:

She is in the series. She is doing the narration, in case you missed it 🙂

Julie Andrews is doing the narration as Lady Whistledown, same as in Bridgerton. So Nicola Coughlan is not in this series, but Lady W is.

[Door County Cherry]

If you have any questions about whether or not discussion goes too far into Bridgerton territory, report the post instead of discussing it here.

For the record, discussion of Penelope as far as her role as Lady Whistledown is fine for discussion as her newsletter is present.  Penelope's relationships with the Bridgertons and her family would not be. 

[quarks]

My sense is that the Lady Whistledown stuff in this episode was less about Penelope or any of the Bridgertons, and more to show us that a) Queen Charlotte's distress was so obvious that even Penelope/Lady Whistledown, who isn't a friend/at the court daily, is aware of it, b) the lack of legitimate grandchildren was a genuine, national concern and not just something that Queen Charlotte is overreacting to.

We also know from Bridgerton that Queen Charlotte does read and pay attention to Lady Whistledown, and knows that the ton does as well - so it made sense to me that Queen Charlotte would read/pay attention to Lady Whistledown in this show as well. I thought it worked.

My favorite bit, though, was the line about the "deformed bunny." Though I must say that very cute dog deserved better. Hopefully he's getting lots of walks and 18th century doggie treats to make up for being insulted like that. Poor doggie. 

[Maya]

I have no idea how historically accurate this story is, but based on the show alone, what we have seen of Charlotte’s personality doesn’t translate into having 13 lazy and rude children. Why would she allow that? 

[DearEvette]

Man, Charlotte and George have some real magnetic chemistry.  Shonda certainly has an eye for casting on screen chem of her romantic couples.

Such a shame they spend so much of this episode apart.  But I guess the sexy times at the end was worth the wait.

I really like seeing the 'modern day' counterparts as much as the younger selves, but I am not loving the containing story of her being obsessed with the succession even though it was a major big deal at the time.  It is a good idea, but  the execution of it is a miss for me.  Also they way they are having Lady Whistedown write about the lack of heir in the immediate aftermath of Charlotte's granddaughter's death really makes Lady W (Penelope, really)  sound like an insensitive asshole.  I already heartily dislike Penelope and this isn't making me change my mind. 

I did think it was rather poignant seeing modern day Charlotte eating alone at that long table again as a bookend to her early aloness during her honeymoon. 

Lady Danbury is so delicious.  Loving how she squared up to Princess A.  Another Shonda hallmark is a woman knowing her worth and negotiating her best price. 

Also, the charcoal sex drawings took me out!

And Brimsley deserves a raise.  He is a good man to have at your back.

[peridot]

I really enjoyed how Brimsley was such an advocate for Charlotte, questioning his boyfriend on what was wrong with the king.  I hate that his boyfriend put him on the spot in front of the Dowager. 

Good for Lady Danbury for sticking up for herself.  I wanted to slap the Dowager for her condescension and telling Danbury that she should be grateful for scraps. 

I wondered why George was all of a sudden eager to bed Charlotte, but his outburst to the Dowager was heartbreaking for Charlotte.  Learning that it was all a ruse and he promised his mother that he wouldn't let her properly be a queen.

Charlotte's children were so lazy and ungrateful.  Why aren't they concerned about the lack of legitimate heirs?!

[twoods]

I am loving this show but the lazy children is really putting me off. I can’t see the Queen having lazy, ungrateful brats who don’t want to get married and produce the next heirs of the throne. If there was one or two decent ones (maybe the eldest since his wife died and he doesn’t seem like a jerk), but one of the daughters maybe?

I can’t stop swooning at George. The actor that plays him is fantastic, and his chemistry with Charlotte is electric. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by twoods

[janie jones]

9 minutes ago, twoods said:

I can’t stop swooning at George. The actor that plays him is fantastic, and his chemistry with Charlotte is electric. 

I keep thinking he could play Tom Cruise's son in something.

[buttersister]

I was wondering if Charlotte's daughters believed their father's condition was hereditary and took a hard pass.

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, peridot said:

Charlotte's children were so lazy and ungrateful.  Why aren't they concerned about the lack of legitimate heirs?!

In real life, the children weren't necessarily lazy (many of the sons had military careers), but the daughters were controlled and kept at home, and the sons all preferred their mistresses, figuring it didn't matter since the Prince of Wales had a direct successor, until he didn't.  The QC version seems to be following this path for the most part, though I guess it's just easiest to paint them all as lazy than bother to explain the diverse reasons 12 children didn't have legitimate heirs. 

[Linderhill]

I real life, one problem with the daughters is that the king would not approve of marriages for them.  He was obsessed with keeping them at home despite them having suitors.

[Maya]

8 hours ago, janie jones said:

I keep thinking he could play Tom Cruise's son in something.

I kept thinking he could be another Franco brother.

[Zmanda]

1 hour ago, Maya said:

I kept thinking he could be another Franco brother.

Hah!  I was googling trying to figure out if there was another one. 

[chaifan]

12 hours ago, DearEvette said:

but I am not loving the containing story of her being obsessed with the succession even though it was a major big deal at the time.  It is a good idea, but  the execution of it is a miss for me.  Also they way they are having Lady Whistedown write about the lack of heir in the immediate aftermath of Charlotte's granddaughter's death really makes Lady W (Penelope, really)  sound like an insensitive asshole.  I already heartily dislike Penelope and this isn't making me change my mind. 

The concern about a successor, after the death of the granddaughter, is historically accurate.  It was a public concern.  I also don't understand why Charlotte/George wouldn't have married off at least the eldest 2 or 3 sons in arranged marriages as soon as they were of marriageable age.  I need to look up the history on that, as well as why the daughters weren't married off.  The idea of the children being left to choose their own spouses (or not) doesn't make sense historically or with the Charlotte character we've been given.

I read in one article that they have played with the timeline of George's "madness", and it appears earlier here than it did in real life. 

Lady W's narration - I think it builds continuity between the two shows.  It make sense to me, and fits.  I think it would have been interesting if they had a Lady W equivalent in the earlier time period, a gossip column about that royal court.  But maybe that would have been too gimmicky. 

On 5/6/2023 at 12:05 AM, shapeshifter said:

Then I wondered if he just really didn't want to miss the Transit of Venus. It was a big deal when it happened while I was working as a college librarian. 

I got the impression that yes, that was the real reason for George's absence on the wedding night.  Now, why he couldn't at least show up for breakfast and lunch, and spend time with Charlotte during the day is another question. 

I love Brimley, and only in one of the final flash forward scenes caught that yes, that's still Brimley by the Queen's side.  Has he been in Bridgerton all along?  Or is he a new character?

 

[quarks]

30 minutes ago, chaifan said:

The concern about a successor, after the death of the granddaughter, is historically accurate.  It was a public concern.  I also don't understand why Charlotte/George wouldn't have married off at least the eldest 2 or 3 sons in arranged marriages as soon as they were of marriageable age.  I need to look up the history on that, as well as why the daughters weren't married off.  The idea of the children being left to choose their own spouses (or not) doesn't make sense historically or with the Charlotte character we've been given.

 

Since this keeps coming up, historically, George III and Charlotte did marry off their two oldest sons to European princesses. Both marriages were unhappy, with the marriage of his oldest son, the Prince Regent, later George IV, a truly epic disaster that led to both parties seeking divorce and refusing to be in the same room together, thus why they only had the one child, Princess Charlotte of Wales, who very tragically died at the age of 21 in childbirth.

The oldest daughter of George III, also named Charlotte, was also married in her 30s to a German prince; they had one stillborn daughter. I suspect she hasn't been mentioned because we already have two Charlottes in the show (even if one only showed up in a coffin) and nobody wanted to make things any more confusing.

The rest of the daughters were willing to marry, but George III prevented their marriages until they were well into middle age. At that point, two of them did get married, but did not have children.

[ursula]

28 minutes ago, quarks said:

The oldest daughter of George III, also named Charlotte, was also married in her 30s to a German prince; they had one stillborn daughter. I suspect she hasn't been mentioned because we already have two Charlottes in the show (even if one only showed up in a coffin) and nobody wanted to make things any more confusing

I don’t think they mentioned the dead Princess’s name was Charlotte either.

Edited May 10, 2023 by ursula

[quarks]

31 minutes ago, ursula said:

I don’t think they mentioned the dead Princess’s name was Charlotte either.

 

Now that I think about it, I think you're right! I think they just said the dead Princess Royal?

[Orcinus orca]

5 hours ago, chaifan said:

I love Brimley, and only in one of the final flash forward scenes caught that yes, that's still Brimley by the Queen's side.  Has he been in Bridgerton all along?  Or is he a new character?

Nope, not new.  He's been with her in Bridgerton.

[shapeshifter]

19 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Also, the charcoal sex drawings

Ooo! I hope the charcoal sex drawings make an appearance in the as yet unaired season 3 of Bridgerton. 
Season 1 Daphne apparently never saw them.🙃

Edited May 10, 2023 by shapeshifter

[tennisgurl]

Brimsley is a great guy to have in your corner, I loved seeing him looking out for Charlotte, giving her some real talk about what she's allowed to do and pushing his boyfriend to get the king on board, I'm glad to see that he's still with her years later. 

I sort of wish we were just doing the flashbacks to young George and Charlotte, but its interesting seeing the show take on real historical events. The show is certainly taking liberties, but their portrayal of the succession crisis that followed the death of Princess Charlotte is pretty accurate. I wouldn't really say that in real life the sons were lazy, most of them had successful careers, but they were certainly on the more feckless and party boy side, especially compared to their parents. A lot of that was probably rebellion against their father, who had no interest in drinking, parties, and women (he never took a mistress unlike most men in his family) and preferred a simple life of study, keeping the kids on a tight schedule, so many of them went the other way and loved women, gambling, the finer things, drinking, and many of them did have love term loving relationships that produced children, just they were with women who were considered "unsuitable" for various reasons, as Charlotte said. It does seem nuts to me that George and Charlotte didn't arrange more matches for their kids while they were still in their child giving peak, but that is how it went. 

The contrast between younger Charlotte eating breakfast surrounded by silent staff and then her doing the same thing after she'd grown up was very striking. Poor Charlotte, she and her husband started and ended in a sad place even if the middle parts were happy.

"Deformed Rabbit" was funny, but I hope that Charlotte comes around to the cute little guy soon, he is clearly in need of some snuggles. 

George and Charlotte have got some serious chemistry, all of that kissing and such was sizzling! Then of course we hit our next roadblock, because the main couple cant get together that easily. They're certainly going to have struggles, but the struggles they will face, mental illness and losing children, aren't a lot of sexy fun. Looks like they are already having George show signs of his later illness, that's going to be hard to watch. There just wasn't much understood about mental health at the time and no one knew how to do anything about it, even if your the king. 

Lady Dansbury's face when she realized how little Charlotte knows about sex! Too bad all of her sexual experience has been lousy sex with that ridiculous old guy. 

[janie jones]

12 hours ago, Maya said:

I kept thinking he could be another Franco brother.

That too!

[PepSinger]

12 hours ago, quarks said:

The rest of the daughters were willing to marry, but George III prevented their marriages until they were well into middle age.

Why?

[Nidratime]

All I've got to say is that I find George to be very attractive. I can see why Charlotte had 15 children.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, PepSinger said:

Why?

George’s and Charlotte’s marriage - faithful, affectionate - was the exception, not the rule. His sisters had very unhappy marriages. As Royals, they could only marry other Royals so they literally left their home and country to be ill-treated elsewhere. He didn’t want the same thing to happen to his daughters. 

[Haleth]

On 5/10/2023 at 12:21 PM, quarks said:

 

Now that I think about it, I think you're right! I think they just said the dead Princess Royal?

Sorrow. Prayers. 

[Hanahope]

On 5/10/2023 at 12:04 AM, Brn2bwild said:

In real life, the children weren't necessarily lazy (many of the sons had military careers), but the daughters were controlled and kept at home, and the sons all preferred their mistresses, figuring it didn't matter since the Prince of Wales had a direct successor, until he didn't.  The QC version seems to be following this path for the most part, though I guess it's just easiest to paint them all as lazy than bother to explain the diverse reasons 12 children didn't have legitimate heirs. 

Where the heir and spare mantra comes from.  With how easily so many children died in that time, even noble children, you’d think they’d all have children just so a couple would survive. 

 

[Haleth]

Centuries of inbreeding?

Spoiler

Not enough heirs?  Victoria certainly makes up for this in the next generation!

 

[andromeda331]

On 5/9/2023 at 10:25 PM, Linderhill said:

I real life, one problem with the daughters is that the king would not approve of marriages for them.  He was obsessed with keeping them at home despite them having suitors.

Part of it did have to do with how miserable his sisters were when they married off. Especially Caroline Matilda. Oddly enough her husband had mental problems too.

So many great clothes this episode. Poor Charlotte left alone day after day with nothing to do. I do like her going to George and talking to him. Well, yelling at him but at least she took some initative. George really doesn't seem to get why she's mad. I'm not sure if he's living a part because that's how it is or something else. I'm jealous of his telesope. The dog was so cute and a great gift. 

I like her and Lady Danbury starting to become friends. I felt a little for Augusta trying to get information about her son but no one would say anything but how great everything it is.

I like her and Brimsley too. He really is trying to help her.

 

[Snow Fairy]

Since old Charlotte has lots of Pomeranians, she obviously warmed up to PomPom. And later has more od them because of the connection with George

[roseslg]

On 5/5/2023 at 5:09 PM, Enero said:

That's one area where this series missed the mark. We did not need Lady Whistledown's snark here. The writers could've easily presented what was up with Queen Charlotte and her family without it. It didn't take anything away from the show having Lady Whistledown's commentary, but it didn't add any susbstance either.  

I fast forwarded through all the Lady Whisteldown commentary. At this point, Pen is a straight up bitch. I don't care about Lady W. 

[retired watcher]

On 5/9/2023 at 10:36 PM, peridot said:

I really enjoyed how Brimsley was such an advocate for Charlotte, questioning his boyfriend on what was wrong with the king.  I hate that his boyfriend put him on the spot in front of the Dowager. 

Good for Lady Danbury for sticking up for herself.  I wanted to slap the Dowager for her condescension and telling Danbury that she should be grateful for scraps. 

I wondered why George was all of a sudden eager to bed Charlotte, but his outburst to the Dowager was heartbreaking for Charlotte.  Learning that it was all a ruse and he promised his mother that he wouldn't let her properly be a queen.

Charlotte's children were so lazy and ungrateful.  Why aren't they concerned about the lack of legitimate heirs?!

They actually became quite concerned after Princess Charlotte died. There was a race to marry and sire the next monarch. The result was Queen Victoria.

[KenyaJ]

On 5/9/2023 at 11:36 PM, twoods said:

I can’t stop swooning at George. The actor that plays him is fantastic, and his chemistry with Charlotte is electric. 

I can't believe this is Corey Mylchreest's first big role. He's so ridiculously good. Imperious when he needs to be, humble when it calls for it, kind, smart. And utterly swoonworthy with Charlotte. I've fallen down the rabbit hole of BTS footage and the QC media tour, and I find him and India delightful together on and off screen. Their real-life friendship and affection for each other translate so well onto the screen.

[Roseanna]

On 5/6/2023 at 7:05 AM, shapeshifter said:

I thought King George "went mad" later in life, so I thought maybe he was avoiding his 17-year-old bride for a month so no gossip could arise about the baby not being his — that is, if she didn't have a baby for at least 10 months, no gossips could suggest she was already pregnant by someone in her home country when she married the King.

There was absolutely no reason why anyone would have doubted that a 17-year old royal girl who was closely guarded wasn't a virgin when she married.

On the contrary, this king was in danger of being regarded as impotent, if the queen didn't become pregnant soon. Besides, marriage wasn't valid without consummation.

[CountryGirl]

On 5/11/2023 at 5:42 PM, Haleth said:

Sorrow. Prayers. 

This made me LOL.

[CountryGirl]

Loving the series so much (only two episodes in as I'm trying to pace myself).

The franchise has done such a wonderful job with casting, but Young Queen Charlotte is the best casting of all as India has so many of Golda's mannerisms and they even look alike to me. 

The chemistry between her and Corey is off the charts.

I'm glad to see George came to his senses and returned home. Otherwise it was more nights of watching Charlotte essentially alone at dinner and without the enchanted objects of the house rallying to put on a show for her (yes, I was getting Beauty and the Beast vibes during those scenes).

 

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Loving the series so much (only two episodes in as I'm trying to pace myself).

The franchise has done such a wonderful job with casting, but Young Queen Charlotte is the best casting of all as India has so many of Golda's mannerisms and they even look alike to me. 

The chemistry between her and Corey is off the charts.

I'm glad to see George came to his senses and returned home. Otherwise it was more nights of watching Charlotte essentially alone at dinner and without the enchanted objects of the house rallying to put on a show for her (yes, I was getting Beauty and the Beast vibes during those scenes).

 

Their chemistry is 🔥🔥🔥, I had to fan myself! Also they are both so beautiful to look at, Corey Mylchreest‘s cheekbones were carved by the gods🥰.

[CountryGirl]

On 6/1/2023 at 8:42 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Their chemistry is 🔥🔥🔥, I had to fan myself! Also they are both so beautiful to look at, Corey Mylchreest‘s cheekbones were carved by the gods🥰.

Cheekbones...and other things.