S01.E01: Lights Out

[Whimsy]

Quote

Twenty years after a fungal outbreak ravages the planet, survivors Joel and Tess are tasked with a mission that could change everything.

Original airdate 1/15/23

[AnimeMania]

S01.E01: When You're Lost in the Darkness

After a global pandemic destroys civilization, a hardened survivor takes charge of a 14-year-old girl who may be humanity’s last hope.

Premiere Date: January 15, 2023      9pm        HBO/HBO Max     

[AimingforYoko]

I didn't know Anna Torv was in this.

The best thing any pilot can do is make me want to see more. This pilot did its job.

[SeanC]

Full credit to Nico Parker (Thandiwe Newton's daughter!), who had a big impact in a small role that needed to have a big impact in order to propel the series.

[Hana Chan]

What does a show need to get me to watch? HBO production values? Check. Post-apocalyptic society? Check. Complex characters trying to survive in a world with no good answers? Check. Pedro Pascal? Check.

Yeah... I'm hooked. I knew nothing about the game so I got to enjoy this completely unspoiled. Everything just hit so hard. From the infected old lady to the soldiers killing any civilians they came across and the world building... it was just fantastic. Maybe not groundbreaking (though I liked the use of the cordyceps fungus as the reason behind this version of a zombie apocalypse) but gripping, genuinely scary and highly entertaining. And any time I get to watch Pedro Pascal is time well spent.

So... is it next week yet?

[Swartz]

Loved it and Anna Torv!

[paigow]

All those years, Rick Grimes barely got out of Georgia... Joel made it from Austin to Boston

[meligator]

Watched with my teen who loves the game.  She thought it was great and I’m definitely intrigued to keep going.  A new Sunday family show for us. 

[maystone]

I'm in. I liked everything about this pilot. I'd never even heard of the game this is based on, so I went into it blissfully free of any preconceived idea of how it should look or be cast. And yeah, standing ovation for the casting crew because everyone was perfection. Let me just declare my love for Tess right now. (I have no idea how long her character is supposed to survive, but I'm hoping for a Daryl Dixon scenario, where the character's fan base is so strong that she gets a save in the story line.) Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey are two of my favorite actors and it looks as if they were always meant to play opposite each other.

I'm taking the fact that the rebellion is called the Fireflies as a shout out to, well, Firefly. It tickled me to hear it.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Never played the video game so this is all new to me too.

As mentioned by @AimingforYoko glad to see Anna Torv back in a series.

Liked the 1968 intro -- immediately recognized John Hannah (from 4 Weddings and a Funeral), Christopher Heyerdahl (from Peacemaker, Stargate: Atlantis, Sanctuary, etc.) and Josh Brener (who played Bighead on the TV show Silicon Valley).

The sudden onset of the infection reminded me a lot of the recent series Y: The Last Man -- seemingly everywhere all at once -- on what turned out to be the worst birthday ever for Joel.

These infected are fast -- like 28 Days Later -- and still alive -- also like 28 Days later.

When you saw the senior at the neighbor's house start to twitch oddly, it just sent shivers that something bad was coming.
And then everything went to shit fast as there was a fungus among us. 

After 20 years of martial law, I can see why the Fireflies are fighting back.  Case in point, the public hangings.

When they encountered that dead infected person in the tunnel, it pretty much confirms that after 20 years that the QZ border control is pretty lax if undetected infected are within the walls.  What with all the smuggling and unauthorized trips outside the walls.

I guess the fungal infection isn't airborne.  Will be curious to see how Ellie got infected -- it looks like she was bitten on the arm.  Was it intentional ? Accidental ? And why did Marlene stash her in military school when she was a baby ?  Marlene said to keep her safe, but safe from what exactly ?

Loved the Depeche Mode track over the end credits -- Never Let Me Down Again.

[peridot]

The first part set in the early 2000s was good.  I was biting my fist every time the daughter was by herself, especially when you saw the old woman twitching in the background.  I didn't realize who the actress was at first, but she did a good job.  It was the early stages of the outbreak, and the soldiers already had orders to kill any civilian they see?!  My goodness.

When the little kid roamed up, I figured that the offer to have as much food and toys as he wanted was just like the "look at the flowers" part of the Walking Dead.  It's pretty awful that daily body disposal is a job that people perform.

I tried not to look into the background of the game, but it's interesting to see how society developed 20 years after the initial outbreak.  I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.

[aghst]

Never played the game, didn’t get around to it.

I was riveted though this feels like a video game story, things spinning out of control fast, the way the plot unfolds is to give adrenaline rush over and over.

I hope the Chernobyl guy tones some of it down.

But other apocalypse stories also show civilization falling apart in a few days or weeks.  Station 11 was like that though the characters hid in that apt. Building or that small airport where nobody bothered them.

Charter motivations are pretty simple, Joel lost Sarah and he didn’t want to re-live that with some soldier holding a gun at them, though he hasn’t really bonded with Ellie yet.

I didn’t realize that was Thandie Newton’s daughter but now I can un-see the resemblance.  Bella Ramsey also has distinct British accent but she can speak American English well.

[Constantinople]

I enjoyed the episode and will keep watching but I thought Sarah, the daughter, was oddly apathetic about what was happening on the day of the outbreak.

While at the repair shop, she sees a number of police cars and fire trucks racing by with sirens blasting. The male store owner says that's been going on all day. Then the female store owner appears from the back, says they're closing now and tells Sarah must go home. Sarah never asks her what's going on before being shooed out of the store hours before its regular closing time.

When Sarah gets to the neighbors' house, Sarah asks of them if she's heard any news, but is satisfied by a non sequitur and doesn't ask to turn on the news. When Sarah leaves, several military jets fly by. We don't see her immediately going home and turn on the news.

Hours later, when her father Joel returns home, we hear the news in the background, but Sarah isn't paying attention, nor does she ask her dad what's going on.

The subtitle said the day was September 26, 2003, exactly 2 years, two weeks and a day after 9/11 and 6 months after the Invasion of Iraq (as if to drive home the point, the store owners speak in Arabic to each other and we see a bumper stick on her father or uncle's truck identifying him as a veteran of the First Gulf War).

I'm not sure how old Sarah is supposed to be but there's a reason the show told us that she knew Jakarta was the capital of Indonesia, that she took the money from her father to repair the watch without asking, that she felt comfortable asking the neighbor if she could borrow a DVD.

So I found it odd.

[Anela]

I found that odd, too. That she didn't turn on the news right away. I know they had to build up to that moment with the dog, and the old woman, but I can't imagine her ignoring the panic of the woman who told her to go home. She wasn't just trying to get her out of the store.

I loved this. I've never played the game. I've watched a little bit of streamers playing both games (parts one and two), but not for long. I was reminded that this started tonight, by a streamer's excited twitter post. 

I wasn't expecting to see Anna Torv, either, so I googled the show's cast, after she appeared, to see if it really was her. 

I missed what the neighbour said to Joel, that morning. Did she ask if he wanted to try something? He just said he was on Atkins, and drove off. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Anela

[Mr. R0b0t]

4 minutes ago, Anela said:

I missed what the neighbour said to Joel, that morning. Did she ask if he wanted to try something? He just said he was on Atkins, and drove off. 

I believe it was biscuits.

[snickers]

12 minutes ago, Anela said:

I found that odd, too. That she didn't turn on the news right away. I know they had to build up to that moment with the dog, and the old woman, but I can't imagine her ignoring the panic of the woman who told her to go home. She wasn't just trying to get her out of the store.

yeah that was odd, but what was it like going home? did she walk? take the bus? was everyone just acting normal?

2 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

(though I liked the use of the cordyceps fungus as the reason behind this version of a zombie apocalypse

ok, full disclosure, science was my worst subject in school, what the heck is a Cordyceps fungus?

that scene of the dead person they found underground with the fungus exploding out of them reminded me of that scene of the movie Annihilation.....

1 hour ago, paigow said:

All those years, Rick Grimes barely got out of Georgia... Joel made it from Austin to Boston

you are killing me 😆this is why i gave up on the walking dead 😉 but to be fair, it IS 20 years later 😆

I watched this show for 2 reasons (because i don't play video games):

1. sounded interesting plus i do like these types of shows though i'm a little over zombies

2. Pedro Pascal

I thought it was pretty good, very suspenseful and kept my interest....is this 10 episodes? I hope so considering how long it took to film this...

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

As mentioned by @AimingforYoko glad to see Anna Torv back in a series.

she's in another series as well, The Newsreader, quite like her on that....

Edited January 16, 2023 by snickers

[Anela]

15 minutes ago, Mr. R0b0t said:

I believe it was biscuits.

Thank you. :)

[thuganomics85]

And so begins HBO's attempt at creating a good video game adaptation.  And judging from this first episode.... well, I will definitely not bet against them!

Definitely avoid comparing it too much to the source material, but even if I didn't have that content in my mind, I thought this was a pretty great start to a genre that arguably have seen better days.  They pretty much had me with the surprising opening segment (John Hannah AND Christopher Heyerdahl?!  Why, thank you, show!) and how they are highlighting the fungi aspect of this disease and while I'm sure some of the science it is exaggerated or even made up, I think it works to make it believable that it would hit everyone so hard and make it hard to adapt to it (also chuckled over how they found a way to blame global warming as well.)  And while the occupying military force has been done to death, I'm intrigued by the Fireflies and Marlene, and am looking forward to seeing how this all plays out.

As great as he's been on The Mandalorian, it is certainly nice to see Pedro Pascal get some face time again!  He might be once again stuck playing a glorified babysitter, but he's proving to be a great fit for Joel so far.  I liked his charm and dad-like humor in the opening segment, but I think he's really doing an excellent job at showing how harden Joel has become due to his loss (and probably surviving this world in general), and why he is feared by many already.  But can Ellie bring out a new side to him? We shall see!

Bella Ramsey was equally compelling as Ellie as well and already seems to play off Pascal pretty well.  Definitely hope we explore more of her backstory and history in future episodes.  And the bit at the end where Ellie seemed to actually enjoy Joel killing that solider really left a mark.

The rest of the cast was on point too.  Fun seeing Merle Dandridge reprise Marlene again, Anna Torv is already making Tess a standout, and Gabriel Luna really did a lot with all of the Tommy scenes.  Sounds like he might be part of the Fireflies now, which has definitely peaked my interest.

And, of course, gold star to Nico Parker for taking an "one episode and done" role and making sure that Sarah had a lasting impact.  In a lot of ways, the show really could live or die by that decision, and I think they hit a home run there.

A little light on zombie carnage this go around, but what we did get was pretty great.  Have a feeling this will only be the beginning!

Cool that they got the same composer from the game to score this film as well.

Already want it to be next Sunday!

[millennium]

I don't do video games, so I can judge solely by what I see.

The first and last three minutes (John Hannah's exposition/Depeche Mode) were the most riveting parts of this.   The rest seemed like a murky (as in low light and difficult to see what's going on) rehash of every post-apocalypse movie made since The Walking Dead, but with a slightly better budget.   In many ways it reminded me of that Josh Holloway series, Colony.

The Mormont girl's wooden acting worked well for her character in Game of Thrones.   But here?  I found myself thinking no way can I sit through this for a whole series.

I like Anna Torv and Pedro Pascal, but the parade of well-worn post-apocalyptic tropes left me bored.

[mrspidey]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

Never played the game, didn’t get around to it.

I was riveted though this feels like a video game story, things spinning out of control fast, the way the plot unfolds is to give adrenaline rush over and over.

Yep, the prologue sequence was pretty much exactly like in the game.

Edited January 16, 2023 by mrspidey

[mrspidey]

I know the games and i loved it. The story has barely been changed, so far. 

My only pet peeve is the lack of spores in the room with the dead fungusman on the wall. In the game a room like that would be filled with so much spores that people would need breathing masks otherwise they'd get infected.

Sure, it's mostly a gameplay thing. Put on your mask and do whatever you must in that section before your filter is saturated and needs to be changed and filters is something you get from scavenging. 

But spores are the main way that fungi propagate, so it still should have stayed in, imho. Kinda weird to have a super invasive fungus but no spores...

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by mrspidey

[Haleth]

This is so much like The Passage.  Makes me wonder if the HBO treatment might have made it a hit instead of squandering a great novel on network tv.

The cast is terrific.  I didn't realize that was Anna Torv.  Haven't seen her since Fringe.

Thandie's daughter is adorable. 

[Hana Chan]

7 hours ago, snickers said:

what the heck is a Cordyceps fungus?

It's a real thing. It's a family of fungi that attack insects, primarily ants. Basically an ant becomes infected and while the fungus is growing inside it's body, it goes about its normal ant business, That is until the fungus is ready to reproduce and the ant drags itself to a high perch (usually above the ant trails) and the fungus basically explodes out of its body and rains spores all over the place (so more ants get infected). It's genuinely fascinating and horrifying, As of now, people cannot be infected, but in the future...?

https://insh.world/science/cordyceps-attack-of-the-zombie-fungus/

[mledawn]

Wow. I was on the edge of me seat for the entire show. I didn’t play the games but I watched as my husband did and this still had me anxious. 
So excited to see John Hannah but then of course realized he was going to only be in that one scene. As mentioned upthread, the actor playing Sarah was perfect. I knew her fate because of the game but I was still totally invested.

Somehow I didn’t know Anna Torv was in this so that was a great discovery. 

Can’t wait for the next episode. Depeche Mode “Never Let Me Down” - an 80s track…

[cardigirl]

5 hours ago, millennium said:

The Mormont girl's wooden acting worked well for her character in Game of Thrones.   But here?  I found myself thinking no way can I sit through this for a whole series.

I like Anna Torv and Pedro Pascal, but the parade of well-worn post-apocalyptic tropes left me bored.

I like Anna Torv and Pedro Pascal as well, and would rather have the young girl who played his daughter, Sarah, playing Ellie. I didn't feel anything for Bella Ramsey's performance. Hopefully she'll grow on me (but not like a fungus).

I've heard the science about fungi and how they can take over a person to the extent they can change a person's thinking, it's all rather frightening how vunerable we are. 

I always wonder why post-apocalyptic worlds are so militant, but after watching what went down with COVID and mask and vaccine mandates, I guess I could easily see concern for safety turning into rigid rules. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by cardigirl

[paigow]

If Clint Eastwood got name dropped... what about Boston Royalty like the Wahlbergs??? The fungus would be scared of Dorchester...

[iMonrey]

Quote

The rest seemed like a murky (as in low light and difficult to see what's going on) rehash of every post-apocalypse movie made since The Walking Dead, but with a slightly better budget. 

I liked it, but I didn't love it. And mostly because of this. I'm sort of over the post-apocalyptic zombie genre. There really isn't anything new to be done with it at this point. I'm also not thrilled with the militaristic versus plucky rebels aspect of the story. That feels overdone as well, and keeps reminding me this is a video game I'm basically watching.

What they did they did well. The car escape sequence at the beginning of the outbreak was particularly gripping. But once they flashed forward 20 years I got kind of bored and felt like we'd dropped into every other dystopian, post-apocalypse story ever made. 

[Capricasix]

12 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

What does a show need to get me to watch? HBO production values? Check. Post-apocalyptic society? Check. Complex characters trying to survive in a world with no good answers? Check. Pedro Pascal? Check.

Yeah... I'm hooked. I knew nothing about the game so I got to enjoy this completely unspoiled. Everything just hit so hard. From the infected old lady to the soldiers killing any civilians they came across and the world building... it was just fantastic. Maybe not groundbreaking (though I liked the use of the cordyceps fungus as the reason behind this version of a zombie apocalypse) but gripping, genuinely scary and highly entertaining. And any time I get to watch Pedro Pascal is time well spent.

So... is it next week yet?

All of this!

[Capricasix]

I did not realize that was Christopher Heyerdahl, but it’s been a while since I’ve seen him in anything but Stargate Atlantis.

[monakane]

13 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

What does a show need to get me to watch? HBO production values? Check. Post-apocalyptic society? Check. Complex characters trying to survive in a world with no good answers? Check. Pedro Pascal? Check.

I would add Bella Ramsey who was so good in Game of Thrones to that list.

[Helena Dax]

I know very little about this game -almost nothing-, but I liked the show. The actors are solid, the infected are gross, and while the story isn't exactly new ground, I enjoyed it. I guess the Mormont girl is immune or something like that. I'm in. 

[diebartdie]

I've not (yet) played the game but I've watched full play throughs twice because the story is so good. I very much enjoyed this episode and hope it keeps being so good. I liked the little tweaks and knew from interviews that gas masks were not going to be a thing and I'm glad about that really. I liked all the cast except the young lady playing Ellie but not for her acting which seemed fine, I just...well...this is terrible to admit but I don't like her face. UGH, I'm happy with her acting so I'll just have to ignore that tiny little baby face on that adult size head. Honestly, I wish the girl who played Sarah was playing Ellie (but maybe she's not yet ready for such a demanding part?) Anyway, I don't think the average viewer would watch this and instantly think "video game adaptation!" because structurally, it wasn't particularly game-ish. It felt far more "action movie" is certain parts...interestingly (to me), the most "action movie" bits were the bits that were directly lifted from the game (the chaotic truck escape at the beginning). I'm a huge, life-long fan of the zombie genre so of course I will stick with this show. I think it's a more realistic take on what might happen if a horrible *something* wipes out almost everyone and parts of governments and militaries attempt to rebuild some sort of society (instead of the dumb hodge-podge Rick and Co did for their 15 or so years).

 

[40Love]

15 hours ago, Anela said:

I found that odd, too. That she didn't turn on the news right away. I know they had to build up to that moment with the dog, and the old woman, but I can't imagine her ignoring the panic of the woman who told her to go home. She wasn't just trying to get her out of the store.

Agreed! The whole time I was screaming at the TV... You do NOT ignore frightened, reluctant dogs, walk through open doorways into dark hallways cluelessly shouting "Hello! Is anyone there? Is everything OK?" Take your butt back to your house, lock the doors and wait for your Commando Dad to come rescue you! Ugh! 😆

[magdalene]

I am not a fan of the genre but the production and acting  are superb and this is more realistic than a lot of it, given how certain fungi only need to switch hosts to make this a distinct possibility. I will watch while Pedro Pascal is in it. That man is one of the best actors we have I always believe every emotion he conveys.

Edited January 16, 2023 by magdalene

[Sakura12]

I've heard of the game and know basic things about it. I'm intrigued so far. The time jump makes it more interesting since we are full into the apocalypse.

 

I didn't know Anna Torv was in this. But the only names I heard of are Joel and Elle so I'm thinking she doesn't last that long. 

I agree the girl playing the daughter did a good job with the small role. Although I also wonder why she didn't turn on the news when she got home. Also always listen to animals, the dog did not want to go back inside, so do not go inside. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anela]

4 hours ago, 40Love said:

Agreed! The whole time I was screaming at the TV... You do NOT ignore frightened, reluctant dogs, walk through open doorways into dark hallways cluelessly shouting "Hello! Is anyone there? Is everything OK?" Take your butt back to your house, lock the doors and wait for your Commando Dad to come rescue you! Ugh! 😆

 

56 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I've heard of the game and know basic things about it. I'm intrigued so far. The time jump makes it more interesting since we are full into the apocalypse.

 

I didn't know Anna Torv was in this. But the only names I heard of are Joel and Elle so I'm thinking she doesn't last that long. 

I agree the girl playing the daughter did a good job with the small role. Although I also wonder why she didn't turn on the news when she got home. Also always listen to animals, the dog did not want to go back inside, so do not go inside. 

Same. I told my dad, "That dog is terrified! Just let it in!" the poor thing.

 

[opus]

20 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

and Josh Brener (who played Bighead on the TV show Silicon Valley).

That’s who that was! Thanks.

[snickers]

12 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

t's a real thing. It's a family of fungi that attack insects, primarily ants. Basically an ant becomes infected and while the fungus is growing inside it's body, it goes about its normal ant business, That is until the fungus is ready to reproduce and the ant drags itself to a high perch (usually above the ant trails) and the fungus basically explodes out of its body and rains spores all over the place (so more ants get infected). It's genuinely fascinating and horrifying, As of now, people cannot be infected, but in the future...?

Thanks for this info, I'm now officially horrified 😐 

12 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I always wonder why post-apocalyptic worlds are so militant, but after watching what went down with COVID and mask and vaccine mandates, I guess I could easily see concern for safety turning into rigid rules

^exactly

 

[PurpleTentacle]

I usually like slow worldbuilding, but I was bored through most of this. Maybe because I've already seen it in a more succinct form. Maybe because the translation was a bit too literal. There were some sequences in there that were great gameplay, but really didn't need to be in here for the narrative and probably should have been dropped or rewritten.

I'm a bit sad they got rid of the spores. It lend a bit more credence to the fact that the whole world could get overrun by this fungus. Zombie media always requires a lot more suspension of disbelieve when direct contact is required for transmission. If the spores were still a thing, the dead, fungus infected body they found in that basement would have been the most dangerous situation of all. I've heard they probably got rid of it so the actors wouldn't have to wear gas masks, but even in the games it only came up like once or twice, when going into unknown, unventilated spaces, so I think they lost more than they gained. Maybe Pedro Pascal just refused. I've heard he was extremely unhappy that nobody could ever see his face in the Mandalorian.

Also disappointed that the old lady became this nearly unstopable rage zombie. A fungus can only work with what's there, not make a frail old woman into superman. So I guess making this a bit of a more realistic zombie show is out the window with what we've seen so far and the changes they've made... Guess I'll just have to accept that.

I do like the acting. Just hoping the story picks up a bit of pace from here on out... oh and that they change the ending of the first game, because that was bullshit. Here's hoping.

Edited January 17, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[Mr. R0b0t]

16 hours ago, Haleth said:

This is so much like The Passage.  Makes me wonder if the HBO treatment might have made it a hit instead of squandering a great novel on network tv.

I cannot co-sign this enough.  The Passage needs to be brought to screen in a proper way.

[PurpleTentacle]

22 hours ago, Constantinople said:

When Sarah gets to the neighbors' house, Sarah asks of them if she's heard any news, but is satisfied by a non sequitur and doesn't ask to turn on the news. When Sarah leaves, several military jets fly by. We don't see her immediately going home and turn on the news.

Or browse the internet for what's going on. Yes we did have internet in 2003, the before times, the long, long ago. It was slow as hell (though DSL and not dail-up anymore), but News you could read or even watch, in really low bitrate, if your gaggle of ICQ contacts didn't tell you before you could get there anyway.

22 hours ago, snickers said:

ok, full disclosure, science was my worst subject in school, what the heck is a Cordyceps fungus?

The human version is something the writers made up for the games and now show. Basically based on fungy that can control ants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis

The scientist in the 1960s segment at the beginning mentioned it. Of course his theory that such a fungus could evolve to live in humans due to global warming was just dumb. There are already fungy who live on and in us. No global warming required. But such a fungus would need decades to evolve and jump to other mammals first.

Also there is no reason to believe that anti-fungals wouldn't work with such a fungus, so if you were infected you'd likely just have to pop a few pills, but suspension of disbelive and all.

19 hours ago, millennium said:

I like Anna Torv and Pedro Pascal, but the parade of well-worn post-apocalyptic tropes left me bored.

Glad I'm not totally alone here.

13 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I've heard the science about fungi and how they can take over a person to the extent they can change a person's thinking, it's all rather frightening how vunerable we are. 

Fungy can't do that to mammals. You should be scared of viruses like rabies or parasites like toxoplasmosis. They can do basically the same thing in mammals.

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I liked it, but I didn't love it. And mostly because of this. I'm sort of over the post-apocalyptic zombie genre. There really isn't anything new to be done with it at this point. I'm also not thrilled with the militaristic versus plucky rebels aspect of the story. That feels overdone as well, and keeps reminding me this is a video game I'm basically watching.

Spoiler

If they follow the games story it's going to be a lot less clear cut by the end and there will be no good guys. I just hope they do it more clever than the games did.

[DigitalCount]

28 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I'm a bit sad they got rid of the spores. It lend a bit more credence to the fact that the whole world could get overrun by this fungus. Zombie media always requires a lot more suspension of disbelieve when direct contact is required for transmission. If the spores were still a thing, the dead, fungus infected body they found in that basement would have been the most dangerous situation of all. I've heard they probably got rid of it so the actors wouldn't have to wear gas masks, but even in the games it only came up like once or twice, when going into unknown, unventilated spaces, so I think they lost more than they gained. Maybe Pedro Pascal just refused. I've heard he was extremely unhappy that nobody could ever see his face in the Mandalorian.

I've read that this decision was motivated by concerns that having people wear masks for safety reasons in the context of the show might alienate some viewers. I guess I understand the desire to get as big of an audience as possible.

Really enjoyed how heedlessly the one zombie was when he was chasing Joel in the restaurant and just bonking into things and flopping over everything. It did give a sobering realization that of course the fungus wouldn't make the zombies prioritize their physical safety, as hinted at by the opening discussion.

Like a lot of others, I haven't played the games but am tangentially aware of a thing or two. When Joel said he was 36 early on I was a little confused but then realized there would be a time jump, because the Joel I'd seen from the games was closer to 60 than 40 as he was in the latter part of this episode. The Nokia brick cleared it up for me.

Loved Joel's relationship with his daughter and it was heartbreaking when she died. I was worried that she was already sick when she mentioned going into the city, but someone elsewhere pointed out that it was probably related to flour or starchy food items (the pancakes they didn't restock, biscuits that Joel couldn't eat "because of his diet," cookies that Sarah didn't like, and the cake that Joel forgot to pick up). For a moment I was worried that Tommy would have to shoot his niece, but the resolution was still gut wrenching.

Good hook at the end of the episode. I'm guessing Ellie has special antibodies or something and that's why Marlene was treating her like the savior, even going so far as to insist that Joel not even point the gun in her direction. What I'm unsure of is if Ellie's still carrying fungus on her, because presumably that's what the detector picks up rather than symptoms like a fever or anything else (since she was asymptomatic earlier in the episode). If she is, wouldn't that still be dangerous?

[PurpleTentacle]

4 minutes ago, DigitalCount said:

I've read that this decision was motivated by concerns that having people wear masks for safety reasons in the context of the show might alienate some viewers. I guess I understand the desire to get as big of an audience as possible.

Interesting. I kinda doubt these kinds of people are the audience for an HBO-show anyway. So if they really compromised the story for that reason, that doesn't inspire me with a lot of confidence, because trying to pander to the lowest common denominator is not something I'd usually expect from HBO. Maybe that's a thing now under Discovery ownership, but if it is, it's not for me.

10 minutes ago, DigitalCount said:

If she is, wouldn't that still be dangerous?

You wouldn't want a blood transfusion from her, but I don't see her sprouting tentacles, so it's probably fine.

[paigow]

14 minutes ago, DigitalCount said:

I was worried that she was already sick when she mentioned going into the city, but someone elsewhere pointed out that it was probably related to flour or starchy food items 

Charlton Heston: Cordyceps is Gluten! Cordyceps is Gluten!

[Anela]

Yeah, I was wondering if it was whatever the woman offered them, that morning. 

I'm tempted to look up the game play online.

[Dev F]

2 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Also disappointed that the old lady became this nearly unstopable rage zombie. A fungus can only work with what's there, not make a frail old woman into superman. So I guess making this a bit of a more realistic zombie show is out the window with what we've seen so far and the changes they've made...

I think it depends on what Nana's health problems actually were. It's implausible for the fungus to restore localized nerve function or what have you, but if it's suppressing a crippling pain response or bypassing degenerated brain functions, that could conceivably serve as a workaround to some forms of disability.

As Craig Mazin says in the episode 1 podcast, "We like the idea that it could simply route around whatever had gone wrong in your brain and led to catatonia or Parkinson's or any of these kind of neuromuscular disorders."

That's more or less how I read both Nana's actions and those of the runner in town later in the episode: they didn't seem supernaturally strong or tough or fast, they were mostly just heedless, crashing into things, pushing their bodies to their physical limit, and basically just tearing themselves apart to get the fungus into its next victim.

I also found it interesting how Neil Druckmann described the process in the same podcast, because of its metaphorical resonances with other elements of the story: "Here's this weird contradiction of, like, it's fixing her, it's fixing what's broken inside of her, but it's taken her mind with it."

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

The scientist in the 1960s segment at the beginning mentioned it. Of course his theory that such a fungus could evolve to live in humans due to global warming was just dumb.

Yeah, my friend who's a microbiologist pointed out the silliness of the global warming explanation: there have always been warmer places on the globe, so we wouldn't need to wait for the whole world to get hotter to see how organisms respond to increased temperatures. We'd just have to see what happens with them in the tropics.

2 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

I've read that this decision was motivated by concerns that having people wear masks for safety reasons in the context of the show might alienate some viewers. I guess I understand the desire to get as big of an audience as possible.

It's funny how many different explanations are bouncing around for the spore omission, and there's probably some truth in all of them. (Another thing the showrunners discuss in the podcast is how the "It's not viruses we need to worry about" discussion in the opening scene was partially designed to emphasize the fact that this is not a show about the kind of pandemic we've been living through for the past few years, so I can see why they wouldn't want to look like they were plugging into the whole masking debate.) But the showrunners have indicated that the main reason for nixing the spores is a logical one.

As Mazin put it in an interview, "In the game, there are these where you encounter spores and you need to put a gas mask on. In the world that we're creating, if we put spores in the air, it would be pretty clear that they would spread around everywhere and everybody would have to wear a mask all the time and probably everybody would be completely infected by that point."

[mrspidey]

2 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Fungy can't do that to mammals.

Boy, do i have something to read for you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_plague_of_1518

That event, btw, could also be the Inspiration for how the fungus spread on the show. There are quite a few hints in the prologue. The neighbour grandma gets fed bisquits.  Sarah refuses them because they contain raisins. Joel is on an Atkins diet and he forgets to buy the birthday cake. 

It was contaminated flour, most likely.

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by mrspidey

[go4luca]

That prologue though...

I have no idea what we’re in for in the weeks ahead.  But I was definitely feeling a bit creeped out going outside in the dark to drop my trash in the rubbish can.  It was eerily quiet & the season opener did a great job keeping me on edge. I can only imagine what the show runners have for us in the coming episodes.  Can’t wait.

Edited January 17, 2023 by go4luca

[PurpleTentacle]

46 minutes ago, Dev F said:

I think it depends on what Nana's health problems actually were. It's implausible for the fungus to restore localized nerve function or what have you, but if it's suppressing a crippling pain response or bypassing degenerated brain functions, that could conceivably serve as a workaround to some forms of disability.

As Craig Mazin says in the episode 1 podcast, "We like the idea that it could simply route around whatever had gone wrong in your brain and led to catatonia or Parkinson's or any of these kind of neuromuscular disorders."

She has been sitting around for months or years. No matter what gets routed around in her brain, there won't be any muscle mass to use, for those extreme movements and to overpower the other people in the house.

47 minutes ago, Dev F said:

That's more or less how I read both Nana's actions and those of the runner in town later in the episode: they didn't seem supernaturally strong or tough or fast, they were mostly just heedless, crashing into things, pushing their bodies to their physical limit, and basically just tearing themselves apart to get the fungus into its next victim.

I don't have any problems with the other people.

49 minutes ago, Dev F said:

I also found it interesting how Neil Druckmann described the process in the same podcast, because of its metaphorical resonances with other elements of the story: "Here's this weird contradiction of, like, it's fixing her, it's fixing what's broken inside of her, but it's taken her mind with it."

Ugh, if I never have to hear another word from Druckman it will be too soon. I still don't understand how the first game was so good with him as a writer. My working theory is that at the time he didn't have much power and other people told him "no!" 9 times out of 10 (and the 10th time was that ending).

1 hour ago, mrspidey said:

It was contaminated flour, most likely.

Which would be weird, since this fungus doesn't use spores to spread. Another reason they should have kept it.

47 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

Boy, do i have something to read for you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_plague_of_1518

Just because people behave like idiots on LSD doesn't mean that fungi are controlling their brains. There isn't even fungus entering your brain, just the LSD. At that point it's like saying: "Cannabis is controlling your brain when you smoke it!"

Also nobody knows for sure if it actually was ergot fungi or something completely different. Historians and archeologist like to pull ergot out of their behinds when they have no real explaination. It's their second favorite after "religious acts". Religious acts include but are not limited to:

- Storing tools in thatch roofs of huts, so the moon can sharpen them. When tribes were found who still practiced it and were asked about it, their answer was: "The tools are sharp, kids are dumb. So we store the tools where the kids can't reach them."

- Weird holes around homesteads. Surely religious significance. Until a student in an archeology course mentioned: "Um, we have chickens at home, they dig those kind of holes, searching for insects."

- Leaving spears behind after a hunt where the tribe backed a whole herd of animals against a lake and slaughtered them. Clearly an offering to the gods. Can't be that spears are relatively easy to make and they had to carry back tons of meat to the rest of the tribe and thus prioritised the meat over the spears...

- Weird ritualistic killings, that lasted for about 50 years in a bronze age town in germany. Clearly short lived offerings to some kind of god, right? Ask any true crime aficionado, they'll tell you it was most likely "just" a serial killer picking off people from out of town (there was surprisingly a lot of trade).

Etc. pp.

Ergot I even heard being blamed for the Salem witch trials, by some historians, when that was pretty clearly your run of the mill moral panic. Those happen every few decades, everybody gets riled up, and a few years later everybody feels really stupid for having fallen for it. The Salem witch trials followed the exact same pattern as the satanic panic in the 1980s for example (except that was a bit less deadly to the accused).

(Overinterpreting mundane historical events might be one of my pet peeves.)

[mrspidey]

55 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Which would be weird, since this fungus doesn't use spores to spread. Another reason they should have kept it.

Agreed

Quote

Also nobody knows for sure if it actually was ergot fungi or something completely different. Historians and archeologist like to pull ergot out of their behinds when they have no real explaination.

And microbiologists aren't denying the possibility, as far as i'm aware. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by mrspidey