S02.E07: Arrivederci

[skotnikov]

Oh well, it was anticlimactic and a bit disappointing, but funny. And kudos to everyone who guessed that Quentin and his friends will die.

As for Greg I don't think we need to speculate what happens with him and Tanya's money. I hope this storyline is over.     

Edited December 12, 2022 by skotnikov

[Snazzy Daisy]

19 minutes ago, JD5166 said:

Daphne ended up being my favorite. And they definitely did it out there, she and Ethan. 

I like Daphne too and her wardrobes are to die for. Hope to see her again on TWL. Maybe with her new ¼ Asian baby with dark curly hair. 😉

Harper and Ethan should learn their lesson on not being too judgemental of other couples.

 

27 minutes ago, JD5166 said:

Also, I am going to start studying Italian, I won’t  go there without knowing the language after this. 

Get in touch with Alessio if you go to Taormina. We know he’s very helpful. 😆

[showme]

If Tanya is really as wealthy as they say she is, she would have legions of people she can call for help, not just her clueless and incompetent assistant Portia.

[Dminches]

I thought Daphne was the most likable character on the show.  Right now she feels trapped in a marriage to a jerk and has found a way to make the best of it. Eventually she will find her way out when she feels the time is right and she has the strength. Sometimes you have to see reality clearly and work with it.

[dmc]

I feel like I need to watch this season over uninterrupted to decide how much I liked it.  I think the speculation and dissecting characters’ intents may have overshadowed whether I actually overall enjoyed this season.  I’m legitimately not sure.

I also feel like everything was left hanging but I guess that is how life actually is…

Harper and Ethan’s relationship…they still have a highly troubled relationship.  If it takes thinking Harper hooked up with someone else for Ethan to show interest in his wife.  And I still think his interest in her paled to his interest in besting Cameron. I am left wondering if this is more wanting to be complacent and maintain status quo…
 

Daphne and Cameron. I think my favorite moment was them sitting with Harper and Cameron acting like nothing happened after their fight. I also wonder how permanent is their relationship.  I guess I am still old fashioned.  I believe that when you are complete by your partner, you don’t stray. And people who don’t have this are usually just settling.  
 

Tanya dying sort of felt operatic not like it would be actually something that would happen.

the only part I buy is Albie and Portia.  I absolutely believe their journeys would lead them to finding each other exciting enough.

Edited December 12, 2022 by dmc

[AzureOwl]

7 hours ago, sainte-chapelle said:

Speaking of Greg I wish we got more clarity there…who was he calling? Where is he now? 

Since Greg´s alibi is that he was called away for work, he is probably in the US. There is no reason for a BLM official to have any business in Europe.

[Haleth]

Aww, I'm sad that it was Tanya that died.  She was often self absorbed and inconsiderate, but there was also an innocence about her that made her somewhat likable.  Although it was never really confirmed that Greg was behind a plot to kill her, I hate that he ends up with all her money.  (It could be that the whole plot was in her head and despite the suspicious evidence to the contrary no one was really out to do her harm.  Unlikely, I know, but what if?)

Ethan was a complete jerk.  Dump his jealous ass, Harper.

Albie was a complete idiot.  Glad he realized he got played.

Portia was a complete idiot too.  As suspicious as she was of Jack I can't believe she'd get into a car with him.  I think maybe he was supposed to kill her or at least bring her back to the hotel so Quentin or Niccolo could deal with her.  Nice that he had a shred of decency and advised her to get out of Sicily ASAP instead.

I agree that Meghann Fahy was superb with the succession of emotions crossing her face.  She did the same when she and Harper talked at the palazzo several episodes ago.  Well done.

[Madding crowd]

Portia was almost a victim of the “too polite” syndrome. Women often sense something is wrong but don’t want to hurt the guys feelings by running off or doubt their own instincts. . I don’t think Portia was stranded without money, she kept giving Jack the benefit of the doubt until her phone was obviously taken.

If I think about the Tanya plot too closely it doesn’t quite make sense. Why would Greg be in on a plot to save a Piazza in Sicily? He doesn’t seem the type. And why was Rocco even needed? Quentin and friends could have slipped something in her drink and pushed her overboard. She was wearing a dress and heels so they couldn’t say she went for a swim and drowned. I did think it was great how Quentin went from amusing and kind to menacing. He was saying the same things but the tone and his face changed.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Madding crowd

[SeanC]

12 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

If I think about the Tanya plot too closely it doesn’t quite make sense. Why would Greg be in on a plot to save a Piazza in Sicily? 

He wasn’t. He wanted his wife’s money; giving some of the cash for the piazza was his plan to reward his co-conspirators.

[luna1122again]

5 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Meghann Fahy is really good in this scene. Her micro expressions are on point. ❤️

Is she cunning? Or is she drowning in self-deception and there's no turning back?

I agree she was the MVP of the season. She said more with her face and eyes than pages of dialogue would have conveyed for other actors. I've been a big fan of Fahy since her One Life to Live days. She should be a big star. And she's so pretty. 

I also love Haley Lu Richardson (if you haven't seen Columbus--which is most definitely NOT about Christopher--and Unpregnant, well, you should). Portia is, for some reason, a more polarizing character than I realized. Sure, she did stupid things, but she's young and learning, like many of us were/did, but I swear, half of the animosity toward her is about her wardrobe. 

[BC4ME]

As the scene when Tanya found the gun and went out shooting unfolded, I was struck by how even careening around shooting willy nilly until you ran out of bullets, you can still kill almost everyone on the boat. 

Then right when you think stupid and clumsiness miraculously wins, it doesn't.

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, Pike Ludwell said:

As to any Greg conspiracy, in the post-show interview Mike White said something like "we'll have to wait and see what happens", implying it could be addressed in Season 3. But that doesn't mean it really will be brought back.

One thing I found interesting in the interview was that Mike White--in common with many great novelists and dramatists--admits to sincerely not knowing everything about his characters. Did Ethan and Daphne have sex? He sincerely doesn't know! I submit that this is what makes his characters real, for him as much as for us. If you create a character, and know everything about them, then that character you've created is 2-dimensional. "Wait and see what happens" means that he's as curious as we are.

[snarts]

Tanya killed all but one of the guys and the captain, correct? I think we're supposed to believe the one was sympathetic to her plight, as evidenced by the whispered arguing as she came back to the table and his subsequent tearing up.

The plot is a bit flimsy, why even bother to take Tanya to the villa and throw that party, hire an escort, etc.  if they planned to make it look like a drowning? Tanya just as easily would've done all the cocaine on the yacht.

Part me still thinks it was Greg dressed up as Borat that stayed back at the villa.

[Madding crowd]

35 minutes ago, SeanC said:

He wasn’t. He wanted his wife’s money; giving some of the cash for the piazza was his plan to reward his co-conspirators.

Then why not hire a single hit man? Why involve 7 other people, all of whom expect something? The plot to meet Tanya in Hawaii then arrange the meeting with Quentin was complicated enough; if Quentin was just a hired hit man and Greg just needed someone to kill Tanya it is way too convoluted.

[SeanC]

5 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Then why not hire a single hit man? Why involve 7 other people, all of whom expect something? The plot to meet Tanya in Hawaii then arrange the meeting with Quentin was complicated enough; if Quentin was just a hired hit man and Greg just needed someone to kill Tanya it is way too convoluted.

Quentin wasn’t a hired hitman, he was a prior acquaintance of Greg’s.

[sainte-chapelle]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

We all read about that American college girl who spent years in an Italian prison after being framed for murder by her roommates. Maybe Portia saw the Lifetime movie version of the story.




I really wanted Tanya to use Niccolò's  rope to get down to the smaller boat, and then figure out how to start it. But when she didn't take off the shoes, it was pretty much all over.

Foxy Knoxy 😂 . My friend and her family are from northern Italy and told me to never trust the cops there, or tour companies in Rome that are set up next to tourist sites. Always vet everything etc. Granted they haven’t been back since the 90s so things might have changed. Portia really had no proof though. What would she tell the cops? We suspect these guys are trying to kill us? She didn’t know where she was, or where Tanya was headed. She wasn’t the brightest, neither was Albie. 
Albie was insufferable. Using his position to manipulate his dad and basically convinced his mom to return to a broken marriage for a girl he didn’t even know. Arg. He only wants to save people when it benefits himself. “ look what a good guy I am” no. I don’t feel one ounce of sympathy for dad, he is a serial peen passer who is unlikely to change and potentially exposed his wife to STDs. Condoms fail sometimes.
I guess Val showed a little growth. She did seem much nicer to everyone in the end now that she accepted who she is and let loose. I think she will keep Mia on and they will develop some sort of unconventional friendship . 
I think Quinn from last season, who was only 16, showed the most growth. I loved it when he snarked on his mom and his sisters virtue signalling. Unlike the others he wanted to stick around and experience things, not just bitch and go back to hiding behind his privilege. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by sainte-chapelle

[Madding crowd]

But if Greg was only using him to kill Tanya in return for pay, then he is a hired hit man regardless of their prior relationship. My point was I could see this elaborate plot if Greg intended to be with Quentin and was invested in the Piazza but if he was just looking for someone to kill her for pay, a lone hit man would be a safer choice than a large group of people ( including Jack and the boat captain), all of whom would know about the killing and would expect something in return.

[luna1122again]

2 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

But if Greg was only using him to kill Tanya in return for pay, then he is a hired hit man regardless of their prior relationship. My point was I could see this elaborate plot if Greg intended to be with Quentin and was invested in the Piazza but if he was just looking for someone to kill her for pay, a lone hit man would be a safer choice than a large group of people ( including Jack and the boat captain), all of whom would know about the killing and would expect something in return.

I assumed that Greg and Quentin WERE still a thing, that Quentin is who he was whispering sweet nothings to over the phone, and that he was invested in the piazza as well as all of Tanya's money. Still, it IS a convoluted plot I wish we'd gotten a little more confirmation on. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

A subtle clue from the Bull Elephants episode!

We have been warned… 

Edited December 12, 2022 by SnazzyDaisy

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

Why would Greg be in on a plot to save a Piazza in Sicily?

Greg was in it for the money, as were all the participants in the scheme--some for thousands (Jack, Niccolò, the boat captain, etc.), some for millions (Quentin), and some for billions (Greg).
The season 2 finale strongly suggests that Greg showing up at the Hawaii White Lotus fake-mistaking Tanya's room for his was the beginning of a very (unrealistically?) long con. The decades old picture of Greg (Steve?) with Quentin creates more underpinning for the story of the long con. 
In Tanya's last desperate call to Portia, Tanya realizes about Gregg: "But then he did insist that we come to Sicily."



Excellent wardrobe catch, @SnazzyDaisy! 
I skimmed the transcript for that scene but couldn't find a definitive hint as to it being foreshadowing of Tanya's demise, but the dress was a wonderful subliminal message to at least some of us.

4 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

A subtle clue from the Bull Elephants episode! We have been warned… 

 

[anniebird]

I love Mike White (I've loved him since he was on The Amazing Race with his dad) but I think he tried to tell too many stories in only 7 episodes and none of them got satisfactorily resolved. 

[MrWhyt]

11 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

After all the porn Ethan has watched he is likely pretty good at sex.

please don't mistake porn for a how-to-guide

[slowpoked]

I agree that Meghann Fahy was amazing this season. I rewatched again mostly to understand the sequence of events that led to the death of Tanya, but Daphne’s scenes with Ethan were the best last night.

Like on that Twitter link above, she had a pained expression first upon learning of Cameron and Harper, like it’s something she already expected to happen, or wasn’t surprised by it. Then she brushed it off seamlessly.

Then when she and Ethan were walking to the cove, she gave him a come-hither look, and you can see in Ethan’s face process it, kind of like a “now or never” moment, similar to when they had the hookers in their hotel room. But while he said no to Mia previously, he continued to walk toward Daphne as they disappeared into the cove.

[EtheltoTillie]

45 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Greg was in it for the money, as were all the participants in the scheme--some for thousands (Jack, Niccolò, the boat captain, etc.), some for millions (Quentin), and some for billions (Greg).
The season 2 finale strongly suggests that Greg showing up at the Hawaii White Lotus fake-mistaking Tanya's room for his was the beginning of a very (unrealistically?) long con. The decades old picture of Greg (Steve?) with Quentin creates more underpinning for the story of the long con. 
In Tanya's last desperate call to Portia, Tanya realizes about Gregg: "But then he did insist that we come to Sicily."



Excellent wardrobe catch, @SnazzyDaisy! 
I skimmed the transcript for that scene but couldn't find a definitive hint as to it being foreshadowing of Tanya's demise, but the dress was a wonderful subliminal message to at least some of us.

 

I thought about the long con last week, when they showed the old photo.

I missed the dress--great catch.

Credit goes to the NYT review this morning which pointed out more great foreshadowing from first couple of episodes.  The Monica Vitti movie l'Avventura, where apparently someone drowns off a yacht off the coast of Sicily.  That movie is also available  on HBO Max, and I've already started watching it.

Edited December 12, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

Meghann Fahy was amazing this season. . . . she had a pained expression first upon learning of Cameron and Harper, like it’s something she already expected to happen, or wasn’t surprised by it. Then she brushed it off seamlessly.

Just like Cameron had sex with any girl Ethan liked when they were roommates (Ethan's fantasies of Cameron with Harper imply that Cameron had that sex in his dorm bed while Ethan was "sleeping" in his bed) now, as a married man, Cameron pulls the same crap on his wife/roommate. 
In episode 4 "The Sandbox," back in the hotel room after Harper returns from being more or less kidnapped by Daphne to the palazzo in Noto, Harper shares with Ethan about Daphne:

• "she has no women friends, like, at all. I'm, like, basically her best friend now, and I barely know her. Isn't that crazy? Why does she have no female friends?"

Daphne deals with Cameron's conquests of any female in Daphne's orbit by seducing those women's partners, the result being that they are both isolated from any potentially genuine friendships.

28 minutes ago, anniebird said:

I love Mike White . . . but I think he tried to tell too many stories in only 7 episodes and none of them got satisfactorily resolved. 

I too thought Mike White bit off too many stories, but now I see the various B plots as both red herrings necessary to a good mystery, and illustrations of the universal failings of human relationships that led to the violent ends of the A plot lives.
Like Daphne, Tanya has no real friends.

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Portia was almost a victim of the “too polite” syndrome. Women often sense something is wrong but don’t want to hurt the guys feelings by running off or doubt their own instincts.

The "too polite syndrome" is not exclusive to women with men. Harper was too polite to say no to spending the night in the palazzo just as Portia was too polite to say no to Jack. Both B plots of "too polite" made Tanya being too polite to say no to Quentin more believable.  

[Cheyanne11]

3 hours ago, sainte-chapelle said:

I guess Val showed a little growth. She did seem much nicer to everyone in the end now that she accepted who she is and let loose. I think she will keep Mia on and they will develop some sort of unconventional friendship . 

At first when Mia basically told her 'hey, I was just giving you an experience, we're not going to be a thing, but I'll help you try and find someone' she seemed disappointed but then realized that even though it was a transactional friendship, it was still better than her sitting eating lunch alone with just cats for company.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Cheyanne11

[Whimsy]

11 hours ago, susannot said:

It never occurred to me that Ethan and Daphne hooked up on the walk to Iso Bella.  Never got that kind of vibe between them.  But if so, was Daphne offering a kind of sexual therapy?  It worked!

To me, the way that whole scene played out, it was very obvious.  From the seductive music, the slow-mo, the way Daphne kept looking back with a come-hither look and her hair flowing around her- it was very obviously a seduction scene.  Then, you see Ethan all of a sudden catching on to what is happening, pauses like he's not sure what he wants to do and then quickly catches up to Daphne.  They definitely had sex, as far as I'm concerned.  I also don't think him having sex with just anyone would've gotten him his "mojo" back.  It was the fact that it was Cameron's wife.  He finally got to pay back Cameron for what Cameron did to Ethan in college.  Plus, he still seemed to believe there was more to Cameron and Harper's tryst in the hotel room that he thought he was now even.  It wasn't about Harper, or even Daphne, at all.  It was always about getting back at Cameron.

11 hours ago, aghst said:

Why would she put him as the beneficiary in her will if she had doubts about Greg?

Snipped for length, but I don't think Tanya had doubts until they were on the trip and then it was too late to alter her will. 

11 hours ago, Jaundiced Eye said:

I wonder if he knows or suspects those kids aren't his.

I still think those are his kids.  I really don't believe she was saying those were her trainers kids, just that she has her fun but stays in her terrible marriage FOR the kids. 

10 hours ago, MCMLXXVII said:

They also made a point to show that the porn star Ethan was watching very much resembled Daphne.

I noted that right away, too. 

10 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

I'm pretty sure they did the deed, and Harper was crying at dinner because good old honest Ethan told her about it.

I don't think Ethan told Harper.  I think she just felt like this was the end of her marriage and she was sad.  I don't think she would've let him touch her that night if she knew he had just had sex with Daphne that afternoon. 

8 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I was also hoping Dominic would stand his ground. I suspect he caved, because behind Albie's offering to talk Dominic up favourably to wife/Mom stewing at home, was also a veiled threat to reveal Dominic's dabbling with the hookers if he didn't transfer the funds.

Albie never knew his dad was with Mia and Lucia.  He just knew about his dad's other transgressions.  

[ahpny]

11 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

You're assuming Tanya has any other heirs. If she has no children or sibling/nephews/nieces, what competing heirs would there be?

Also, the "slayer's rule" only applies if the murdering spouse is found out. We don't know how much of a communications trail Quentin and Greg left that the Italian police can discover.

You're of course correct that we're shown no children or other obvious heirs. But with this amounts of money, it seems likely that at least some would fight for it - but this is just an assumption. Even absent that, the state still has an interest in avoiding awarding estates to murderous spouses - again presuming that could be proved.

And of course you're also correct that the "slayer's rule" doesn't apply unless the murder is proved. Here, even absent Portia's corroborating testimony, the surviving spouse would be the prime suspect. His sudden departure coupled with possible testimony of other guests who witnessed them bickering could at least trigger more interest in further investigation. But that presumes someone has an interest in finding Tanya's death a murder rather than an accidental drowning. Greg could easily win. Maybe not the prefect crime, but perhaps good enough to get and keep the money.

[susannot]

If Greg & Quentin did plan a long con, how did they know about Tanya to target her? Were they paying off someone on The White Lotus staff to be on the lookout for lonely, wealthy widows or divorcees?  More fodder for Season 3, maybe.

[slowpoked]

I liked this season more than Season 1. The conflicts were more interesting to me, and there was a real comeuppance on the "eat the rich" concept of the show as to who died this season as compared to S1.

I know this is all fiction, but I still can't buy the facts and/or circumstances surrounding Tanya's death that it is indeed a "long con" by Greg and his gay lover. It just seems sloppily written and too many holes for it to be believable as something that has been planned since the first season. It feels like Mike White put it haphazardly when he decided that Tanya would die this season, and he tried to connect as much dots as he can, but there were just other dots that couldn't quite be connected. I think Greg completely disappearing this season, and for his last appearance to be an old photo in the villa, was a storytelling mistake. 

When Quentin was telling Tanya about those old villas that need to be saved that no one wants to, I thought that would have been a good opening to ask Tanya if she wants to join their venture, or form one. Rich people like Tanya always look for "good causes" to attach their names to, to feel good about themselves and their money. And I think that's something Tanya would definitely be interested in, seeing as she's all about culture and stuff. Instead of a get rich quick scheme, they could bilk her continuously, albeit slowly, and Tanya would be none the wiser, that behind her "non-profit" foundation was her husband and gay lover. 

If Tanya didn't die, I'm not sure who I'd rather die instead this season. Maybe Ethan, so Harper can be free. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I know this is all fiction, but I still can't buy the facts and/or circumstances surrounding Tanya's death that it is indeed a "long con" by Greg and his gay lover. It just seems sloppily written and too many holes for it to be believable as something that has been planned since the first season.

I think it was meant to be deliberately ambiguous but it left me unsatisfied. I'm not entirely sure whether there was in fact a plot to murder Tanya or whether it was all in her mind. We know Niccolo worked for the mob, so the contents of his bag wasn't necessarily intended for Tanya. Might just be the usual tools of his trade. 

Quote

I think Greg completely disappearing this season, and for his last appearance to be an old photo in the villa, was a storytelling mistake. 

Agree, 100%, and I said this last week. It was entirely too convenient for Tanya to find that photo and entirely too convenient for Quentin to leave it for her to find in the very spot he had arranged for her to have her tryst with Niccolo. I know a lot of people have tried to hand-wave that by saying "Oh, well, he forgot it was there, honest mistake," but if he's still involved with Greg and plotting with him to have his wife murdered then we're expected to believe he's a cunning mastermind and a blithering idiot at the same time. And he was entirely too calm about it when she pointed it out to him.

Also left deliberately vague was whatever happened between Ethan and Daphne. 

I'm just not a big fan of "draw your own conclusions." IMO a storyteller's duty is to tell the whole story, not just most of it then leave it with "make up your own ending."

$50K euro isn't going to go far the way Lucia lives.

Loved the cast this season; the writing, not so much.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

5 hours ago, showme said:

If Tanya is really as wealthy as they say she is, she would have legions of people she can call for help, not just her clueless and incompetent assistant Portia.

If she hadn't dropped her phone in the water she probably would have.

There is a saying in war, something like "They can kill us but they can't eat us," which means you fight so hard that you end up skin and bones but will inevitably lose. That's what I thought of at Tanya's demise because it's going to look suspicious as hell that a boat full men riddled with bullets showed up around the same time as her body. Tanya ended up dead but will Greg be able to profit from it now? Hopefully it all leads to an investigation that keeps Greg from getting any money. Although it would be funny if he was back at The White Lotus in Season 3 with his "beautiful woman" (if the fortune teller was right) and Tanya was there to haunt them, even if just in Greg's mind.

I think whether Ethan and Daphne hooked up is open to interpretation but I choose to believe that they didn't. I think Cameron's wife flirting with him was enough for Ethan. He just needed to know he could screw Cameron over if he wanted to. I also thought Cameron pulling up a chair at dinner after Ethan's and his fight just that afternoon was like, wow. Really, dude? I can't even tell from Ethan's side if he still considers Cameron his friend. I hope not.

I liked Albie's whole story and how it ended. If 50,000 euros was really that inconsequential to Dominic, why not give it to someone who played your son like a fiddle if it makes him happy? I hope Alessio got a small cut of it for his part in it.

I don't think Jack was meant to kill Portia, but rather just get her out of the way. He was hired for his services as an escort. Plus if Portia died at the same time Tanya did it would look a little too convenient.

Portia hanging out at the airport trying to look incognito was a pretty funny visual as was Albie and Portia's whole "meet cute." If they end up together, they will definitely have a good story to tell people.

I was really happy to see Lucia and Mia walk down the street together. After Valentina fired Giuseppe in such a public way, I was worried for Mia.

I'm satisfied with the ending. All the people I was really hoping didn't die didn't die and while I like Tanya, her ending makes sense. I just hope Greg will pay.

Edited December 12, 2022 by DoubleUTeeEff

[ichbin]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Although it was never really confirmed that Greg was behind a plot to kill her, I hate that he ends up with all her money.  (It could be that the whole plot was in her head and despite the suspicious evidence to the contrary no one was really out to do her harm.

Jack and his actions pretty much confirmed that not only was there a plot of some kind but that it was serious and dangerous.

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

But while he said no to Mia previously, he continued to walk toward Daphne as they disappeared into the cove.

 Because that was the way he was going feel like he had finally evened the score with Cameron, not only for what he imagined happened with Harper but for all the relationships with other women that Cameron had ruined in the past.  

3 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I did think it was great how Quentin went from amusing and kind to menacing. He was saying the same things but the tone and his face changed.

Tom Hollander is really good at that.  He's done so much comedy in his career but he plays a great villain too.

12 hours ago, aghst said:

Lucia and Mia are the big winners, they get money, a dream job for Mia, a fat bank account for Lucia.

They are also two of the most despicable characters of this season.  Totally self-involved  schemers and users.

13 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Are we supposed to believe that Ethan and Daphne hooked up on their walk to Isola Bella, and now that he and Harper are "even" they can wipe the slate clean and start all over? That's disgusting and not believable.

I get the feeling that Mike White thinks that people who settle to continue a lifestyle deserve whatever they get. Like the new bride in season one.  

13 hours ago, slowpoked said:

It’s easy to be all “oh well, I got played. Better luck next time,” since it wasn’t his money. I’m sure if that was his own money he would have had a more different reaction. Eat the rich indeed.

I thought he was going to be the only "good" person this season, like Quinn in season one.  Nope!  Just a dope.  I guess the closest to being like Quinn in season two  would be Isabella. 

[Pike Ludwell]

I was glad that Valentina moved Salvatore out of the lobby area. In addition to the harassing, he was rather insubordinate and a bit of an a-h with a bad attitude.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Pike Ludwell

[slowpoked]

19 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I think it was meant to be deliberately ambiguous but it left me unsatisfied. I'm not entirely sure whether there was in fact a plot to murder Tanya or whether it was all in her mind. We know Niccolo worked for the mob, so the contents of his bag wasn't necessarily intended for Tanya. Might just be the usual tools of his trade. 

This! You described the exact feeling that I had, after the episode finished. I have watched some series with long cons as its focal point that have left me satisfied, awestruck and mind blown (1st season of Damages come to mind). But this one, while I was pleasantly surprised that Tanya was the one who was killed off, the circumstances surrounding her death was meh to me.

Edited December 12, 2022 by slowpoked

[Chaos Theory]

I am probably in the minority who liked season 1 more but mainly because I kinda know most of the arc types the show was exploring.  This all just was borrrrring thought out.  I honestly didn’t care about most of the storylines.     Although I did kind of like that Lucia played a certain roll for each of the men she slept with.  Dominic wanted kinky sex…so Lucia brought in Mia and gave it to him.  Cameron just wanted to party so she became a party girl.  Albie wanted a girl to save so she became that for him.  Yeah she conned him but icing think he was completely unaware of it either or that she asked for more then he could stand to lose.    He got to play the hero and she got money. 

[Mindthinkr]

I think one of my beefs with this series is that Tonya was wearing strappy shoes that had to be buckled on. When she was found in the water by Daphne her feet were bare. I understand this was needed as not to give anything away about who died, but I disliked the misdirection. 

[aghst]

7 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I absolutely hated the ending, and it ruined the whole season for me. You don’t take a character who has been developed as a gullible clown over two seasons, the comic relief, and put them in a literal life threatening situation, then finally turn them into the hero of their own story, only to return them back to the clown and die in such a slapstick-y way. I always thought that crew reminded me of an Italian Three Stooges, so there’s that.  Hopefully Portia and Leo testify to the police about the plot so Greg gets his due. 

Mike White said he didn't think she should be killed.

Well she wasn't killed by the gay mafia and fake Freddie Mercury.

She had a cunning moment, to snatch the bag containing the gun.  Then she reverted to ditzy Tanya, trying to make that jump.  Even if she landed on the boat, she might have gotten injured, like a broken leg and maybe bleed out.

Like I said, people with that kind of money have an entourage or a staff of assistants including security people.  She would never be isolated like that.  The gays wouldn't have been allowed to come near her without them being checked out first.

[EtheltoTillie]

The long con:  I think when they wrote season 1, they didn't know that the show would be renewed, so they retconned the relationship to make it a long con for season 2.

Lucia's con of 50K euros was probably not intended at first.  She was just going to be the "girlfriend experience" of Michael Imperioli for a week.  Then she saw an opportunity for a bigger take. 

[DawnGame]

Great music, great ending, what else is there to say? 🥰

except - we still don’t really know exactly the mystery “dead body” is.

(as chocolati poster predicted Tanya’s back in series 3! )

But it mostly figured/played out.

Arrivederci!!!!

Edited December 12, 2022 by DawnGame

[Joan van Snark]

I HATE HATE that Tanya died.  I really liked her this season much more and I thought for sure she would somehow against all odds and without much of her own effort somehow turn the tables and escape the killers.  Or maybe they would show her to be a little more clever than we've been led to believe she is.  I dont know if I buy that Tanya would know how to fire a gun, much less take out nearly everyone on board,  I guess it was stupid irony that she would hit her head on the boat trying to escape, but dammit I wanted her to make it.  It infuriated me how long it took Portia to try to do anything to help Tanya.   Why didnt she try to call her when Jack gave her the phone back?

I felt the couples' resolutions were kind of lackluster, and can't believe Dom caved and gave that girl 50K Euros!  I really think I would have been more impressed if somehow all of the different stories kind of came together in the end and all the main players were somehow involved in the final denouement, but alas it was not to be....

[aghst]

In season 3, there will be at least some posts saying this season misses the over the top energy that Tanya brought.

People will miss her.

[One Imaginary Girl]

22 minutes ago, Joan van Snark said:

 It infuriated me how long it took Portia to try to do anything to help Tanya.   Why didnt she try to call her when Jack gave her the phone back?I

Portia did say to Albie at the airport that Tanya wasn't answering her phone, but yes, it's weird that she wouldn't try to get hold of her somehow before getting to the airport.  Couldn't she have called the hotel itself?  But I also disliked that Tanya took off on the boat without Portia.

[slowpoked]

4 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

A subtle clue from the Bull Elephants episode!

We have been warned… 

This is amazing, @SnazzyDaisy! I can appreciate little details like this, if this is indeed Mike White foreshadowing Tanya's death as early as Ep3.

One quibble though - she didn't get blown up. She doinked her head  on the way down. LOL!

[CarpeFelis]

6 hours ago, SeanC said:

He wasn’t. He wanted his wife’s money; giving some of the cash for the piazza was his plan to reward his co-conspirators.

Palazzo, not piazza.

I really wanted Harper to tell Ethan off when he kept insisting she was lying while expecting her to believe him despite the condom wrapper. What a hypocrite!

I also really want someone out there to start a band named Tanya and the High-end Gays!

Edited December 12, 2022 by CarpeFelis

[MrsR]

Looks we need a bit of a primer on the Mafia.

Sicily is where the Mafia originated. We're reminded of that when we're reminded of the Godfather when they visit the film location. The family was made Italian not because finding and reconnecting with them was important, rather it's a benign way of reminding us about Sicily's history with the Mafia. They are all over Sicily.

The hole Jack talks about is the Mafia, He wasn't 'hired' so much as strong armed. Drugs or gambling. "These people are very powerful" He wasn't talking about Quentin and his friends.

Quentin and all his friends are in debt to the Mafia. That's why they are so nervous. They must get the money or they will be made an example of. Quentin is at least trying to get Tanya to donate before he absolutely has to kill her.

The guy who dove off the boat will not go to the police ever! "Hey officer I was involved in a plot to kill an heiress by a Mafia hit man. I'm a victim." Nope. He's gonna hide from the cops.

Jack is trying to figure a way off the island. Very risky for him to spare Portia while stuck on Sicily.

I got the sense from Season 1 that Tanya was a new heiress. She was there with her recently deceased mothers ashes. She was probably sheltered and that's why she wasn't good at managing her life.

It was Roseanne Barr back in the 90's who joked about the GAY MAFIA. She was talking about the legions of gay admins, assistants, agents in Hollywood. The gate keepers. "And YOU are?"

Edited December 12, 2022 by MrsR

[DawnGame]

^yes Mrs R I concur, from the beginning, and even Jack finally giving Portia a quick way out possibly.  

Alluded to, and ever present.

Edited December 12, 2022 by DawnGame

[dmc]

22 minutes ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

Portia did say to Albie at the airport that Tanya wasn't answering her phone, but yes, it's weird that she wouldn't try to get hold of her somehow before getting to the airport.  Couldn't she have called the hotel itself?  But I also disliked that Tanya took off on the boat without Portia.

this is one of the most unbelievable elements of that plot which was totally unbelievable.  Portia getting on a plane not knowing what was up with Tanya.  I feel like I have been defending Portia because she's a 20 year old idiot...but even me at 20...would not had left until I had heard on gotten confirmation with my boss.  As an assistant what if Tanya wanted to extend her stay or whatever...

I feel like Mike White was like I really got to bring the mystery this year and it went all campy...

[buttersister]

I can't decide if Portia instinctively knew Tanya was gone and got the hell out of Dodge, per Jack's advice or if she genuinely thought she had to go and Tanya could take care of herself. Or buy a new assistant.

Also I think Dom's 50K Euro investment in Lucia's Most Lucrative Week Ever was a bargain to not get busted himself, teach his son a lesson and, as Albie called it, improve the hell out of his karma.

[Milburn Stone]

22 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Quentin and all his friends are in debt to the Mafia. That's why they are so nervous. They must get the money or they will be made an example of. Quentin is at least trying to get Tanya to donate before he absolutely has to kill her.

Interesting! So in your theory, Greg has nothing to do with the plot.

That would make sense with Quentin's utterly uncomprehending look to Tanya. "Greg? You're going on about Greg again?" (Dies.)