S01.E07: Driftmark

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

In general, I have very little sympathy for ppl who treat "bastards" with cruelty or contempt. I didn't like it with Catelyn and I don't like it with Alicent and her brood or Criston. Viserys to his credit loves his grandchildren and doesn't care that they are "bastards."

These are two different things. Decent men loved and took care for their bastards. But in the society where marriage was a pact between families presenting a bastard as a legitimate child meant that one stole the heritance of the rightful heir. Only a person without honor did so.  

[Scaeva]

5 hours ago, Enigma X said:

Frankly, I have a whole bunch of questions about genetic inheritance on this show. Are the Targaryens and Velaryon families we see the only families left of Old Valiria? There are no peasants wandering around with white hair? Apparently, bastards don't inherit it. (Daemon and Viserys said they "whored" around. No illegitimate kids, I guess.) Anyway, this is not the thread for it, but this has been bugging me.

The Baratheons are originally Valyrian as well, though they don't have the white hair. There might be others but that's the only other I can recall at the moment with a prominent role in either television series.

[ChicksDigScars]

8 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So much of the episode was do dark that you could barely tell who was on screen without the captions -- and even then for some scenes you weren't quite sure.

Maybe next time they film these scenes to make it look liked they take place during a full moon -- so the scenes are at least partly lit.

I actually thought it was my TV. I could barely make out who was who. Went into the color settings and switched the picture to "dynamic," which was a slight improvement. Might make everything else so bright that my eyeballs hurt. We'll have to see. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by ChicksDigScars

[UnoAgain]

33 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

I was so glad when they showed that Laenor was still alive!! They had me fooled for a minute and I was "nooooo, you two just had such a cute conversation!". It would have been too much. I guess Rhaenyra understood that she needs someone like Daemon at her side if she wants to stay in the Throne for more than a minute after his father's death. I mean, the support of House Velaryon would be enough if the kids were actually Velaryon, but they're not and the rumors are spreading fast.

Daemon's girls and Rhaenyra's boys seem well-adjusted. Alicent's kids on the other hand... I don't think Aemond was 100% to blame for the fight, but do I see him as someone who would kill his brother Aegon the Wanker for the Throne? Hell, yeah.

Even if Rhaenys was chilly towards the boys.. Laenor acknowledged them and so did corlys.. And i don't see how having Daemon is politically or martially more advantageous.. Also.. It's not like she needed to marry him for him to take her side.. This fake death.. The banging in the shack only hours after laena was dropped in the sea.. Laenor was visibly destroyed out in the water and his cousin wife is just making eyes at Uncle.. Who didn't seem all that interested in taking care of his grieving daughters.. Just.. Felt wrong. And how does having house velaryon thinking she had him killed help?.. Just feels like we needed to get to this point for RhaeDae and all obstacles were obliterated... Rhae didn't even seem sad her cousin was dead... She also didn't go comfort the girls.. Meh.. Not my fave episode

[sugarbaker design]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I guess the fact that the body was burned beyond recognition should have been a giveaway but it still doesn't prove that anyone other than Qarl and Laenor themselves plotted this ruse. 

It was Daemon who broke the neck of the poor sucker body substitute for Leanor.

Edited October 3, 2022 by sugarbaker design

[Cristofle]

2 minutes ago, UnoAgain said:

Laenor was visibly destroyed out in the water

I did not get this from Laenor at all. He was shaken, and he knew they needed to hurry, I'm sure, but Laenor went all in on the little act they put on to ensure they'd have a "witness" for Laenor's supposed attack. Whether or not one thinks it's logical he'd want to do this (I think he would, personally - Laenor is kind, but not particularly strong, and more than anything else in the world, he wants out of this role he does not fit into and I imagine he desperately wants to stop hating himself), I got no indication he was devastated about it. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Laenor looked glad he broke free with Qarl. They took Daemon's money and ran and hopefully made a better life for themselves.

[Cristofle]

Just now, Lady Whistleup said:

Laenor looked glad he broke free with Qarl. They took Daemon's money and ran and hopefully made a better life for themselves.

Honestly, I personally think it was either this or some form of slow suicide, which Laenor seemed to be diving further into for most of this episode. You can only hate everything about being in your own skin for so long. Laenor is a tragic figure in a lot of ways - the essence of who he is does not fit into his world, and wherever he turns, people blame him for that. Alicent was openly mocking him in his absence, and Corlys was fuming at Qarl about him. It hasn't made him cruel like it might some others, but he's not the world's strongest person either and he is collapsing under the weight of his role. He would not have been able to keep that promise to Rhaenyra for long.

[DigitalCount]

4 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Honestly, I personally think it was either this or some form of slow suicide, which Laenor seemed to be diving further into for most of this episode. You can only hate everything about being in your own skin for so long. Laenor is a tragic figure in a lot of ways - the essence of who he is does not fit into his world, and wherever he turns, people blame him for that. Alicent was openly mocking him in his absence, and Corlys was fuming at Qarl about him. It hasn't made him cruel like it might some others, but he's not the world's strongest person either and he is collapsing under the weight of his role. He would not have been able to keep that promise to Rhaenyra for long.

The scene where Laenor said "I'm ready to be your husband" had all the excitement and positivity of a man being sentenced to death. I know he meant it in that moment and would have done his very best to fulfill the promise. And it would have killed him. He looked like he was ready to join his sister this very episode.

I've decided that the cousin coalition is my favorite group of characters. It's so touching that maybe Baela even knew that Jace and Luke had just lost their dad too, and her response to that info was to show compassion; it's especially touching when they had just been saying that no one would give them the same level of regard even though they'd just dealt with the same thing. Those four need to be besties for life now, I wouldn't want it any other way.

Edited October 3, 2022 by DigitalCount
Additional commentary on Baela/Rhaena/Jace/Luke

[Sakura12]

7 minutes ago, DigitalCount said:

I've decided that the cousin coalition is my favorite group of characters. It's so touching that maybe Baela even knew that Jace and Luke had just lost their dad too, and her response to that info was to show compassion; it's especially touching when they had just been saying that no one would give them the same level of regard even though they'd just dealt with the same thing. Those four need to be besties for life now, I wouldn't want it any other way.

Knowing the Targaryan's, they will probably end up betrothed to each other. 

[Lady S.]

5 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

To the people who told me I was way off when I said the "king consort" thing was dumb and likely a mistake: Ha!

They also used the king consort label in the Rhaenys/Corlys in this same ep. You are really determined that the writers are stupid. Rhaenyra can choose whatever titles she likes, they'd both be completely invented in a situation without any precendant. Why couldn't a king consort be an empty title with less power than a ruling king or queen regnant? It's made-up, and again, this so-called precendant was not settled in the UK til their 4th or 5th ruling queen. 

5 hours ago, ursula said:

It just occured to me that Aemond and the girls are also first cousins. So Aemond wasn't bullying distant relatives, but girls he should have felt protective towards. 

First cousins through Daemon, though also second cousins-once-removed through Rhaenys/Laena, that's the magic of incest! And as they hardly knew each other and the girls had nothing to do with the pig, he had zero cause to antagonize them after their mother's fucking funeral. Instead he said Rhaena was fit to ride a pig, then after they came at him, he threatened to feed them to their own mother's former dragon. Then after the boys came in to defend the girls, Aemond grabbed a rock, grabbed Luke by the neck, and said he'd die like Harwin. That last wasn't even a threat, he stated it as fact, "You will die". 

In what world exactly was Aemond an innocent victim not trying to escalate shit at every turn? Suppose that after the pig prank Aemond hit his brother, then Aegon grabbed a rock and made multiple death threats. Would that make Aegon the victim of bullying instead?

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I know there was some dialogue in the previous episode that once you are bonded to a dragon they will not take commands from anyone else, but the fact that Vhagar has had at least three riders now contradicts that. Seems like Viserys should be able to say "Sorry, no son, you don't get Vhagar."

Well, not multiple riders at the same time. Each one died before the next one claimed her. Dragons have much longer lifespans than humans. The Targs can't just let every dragon go free after their human dies. One wild dragon (in the years Vhagar was riderless between the death of Viserys's father and Laena finding her) would be dangerous enough. It's like a marriage, in that the dragon can't take another partner so long as they already have one bonded to them.

The real plothole here is what happens to Laenor's dragon since he's not really dead.

For all you sickos wondering where wondering where the incestous marriages were and all you prudes thinking Viserys (son of two siblings and grandson of two siblings) was against them: here's our answer. Viserys/Alicent's eldest son is now betrothed to his own sister, (proof that Alicent doesn't care about House Targaryen's "queer practices" so much as she cares about Rhaenyra getting laid by men of her own choosing), and Daemon/Rhaenyra, those two crazy kids have finally tied the knot Valyrian-style. (There was a lot going on here but let's note that their ceremony included mixing their blood and then drinking it like fucking dragon vampires.)

6 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Well, sure. I think that's the point of the show - these two clashing groups will fight and fight and fight, and each will win battles and each will suffer losses. I think Aemond was more responsible for this particular loss than others will be in the future, but undoubtedly one or more of the four cousins will end up on the losing side sooner or later, and maybe it'll be their own arrogance and maybe it won't. Probably both. 

Vhagar is a powerful ally (hence Daemon's resigned 'Guess I should have seen that coming' expression as he saw her flying) but undoubtedly the blacks have their own. Almost certainly, a bunch of them will regret ending up on Daemon's bad side too.

Otto himself points out that Aemond is their Daemon, calling him a "rogue prince", which was the title of ep 2 referring to Daemon. Their names are literally one letter off! The only difference being the d at the end instead of the beginning. There are no heroes here and I'm amazed anyone is still looking for the closest Ned Stark or Jon Snow or Sansa or whoever. What matters is who you find most compelling, not most deserving, and those characters don't have to be all on the same team. Being hardcore Team Green means supporting Ali's weirdo kids for the throne even though Aegon would rather masterbate all over everyone and Aemond is turning into a one-eyed Daemon. Being hardcore Team Black means supporting all of Daemon's various murders and other crimes.

Updated for 1.07

Edited October 3, 2022 by Lady S.

[PurpleTentacle]

8 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

You are really determined that the writers are stupid.

Nah, just that they made a mistake that they obviously corrected later. Now the rings of power writers, they are stupid. ;)

[UnoAgain]

47 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I did not get this from Laenor at all. He was shaken, and he knew they needed to hurry, I'm sure, but Laenor went all in on the little act they put on to ensure they'd have a "witness" for Laenor's supposed attack. Whether or not one thinks it's logical he'd want to do this (I think he would, personally - Laenor is kind, but not particularly strong, and more than anything else in the world, he wants out of this role he does not fit into and I imagine he desperately wants to stop hating himself), I got no indication he was devastated about it. 

Not at the end of the epi.. But during the day at the funeral.. He was alone in the water 

[DigitalCount]

26 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Knowing the Targaryan's, they will probably end up betrothed to each other. 

Well, they are simultaneously cousins, step siblings, and first cousins once removed, so what's another relation in the mix? I'm sure there's another one that I'm missing.

[paigow]

Hopefully Laenor left the keys and pink slip for his dragon in a safe place for his niece before bailing...

[absnow54]

16 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

They also used the king consort label in the Rhaenys/Corlys in this same ep. You are really determined that the writers are stupid. Rhaenyra can choose whatever titles she likes, they'd both be completely invented in a situation without any precendant. Why couldn't a king consort be an empty title with less power than a ruling king or queen regnant? It's made-up, and again, this so-called precendant was not settled in the UK til their 4th or 5th ruling queen. 

I think it's an important distinction that they're making on purpose. With Laenor, he can easily be viewed as a consort to the Queen, but Daemon had the strongest claim to the throne before the Green Targs were born. She is distinguishing him as her Prince Consort, so that it's clear that he's not a co-ruler (ala William and Mary.)

[Chicago Redshirt]

Where the episode cut off left out a lot of the ramifications from the ruse and marriage.

1. Are Rhae's kids in on the ruse? Or are they being led to believe their "father" is dead? Either way, it's asking a lot of them. Either they will mourn for real Laenor's death right on top of mourning their real father's death, or they will have to keep up appearances for potentially the rest of their lifetimes.

2, Did Dae/Rhae come up with a plan for Seasmoke? For handling the fallout from the Velaryons when they got married about as soon as "Laenor's" body stopped smouldering? Whether the Velaryons will still be on Team Rhae given this marriage? (I suppose they don't have a ton of other choices, plus he's still father to their grandkids, but still).

3. How are Viserys, Alicent and the others going to react to the marriage?

[DigitalCount]

It may be that Daemon's title of Prince Consort flows through his own birth as a prince, whereas Laenor's intended future title of King Consort flowed from his marriage to the future Queen. I don't know what the intent is there though.

Edited October 3, 2022 by DigitalCount

[Tippi]

This was probably my favorite episode so far.  I thought the setting, pacing, and costumes were quite beautiful.  I luckily didn't find the episode too dark--I found the night time and beach scenes were so atmospheric, and really enjoyed the photography.  The Aemond steals Vhagar sequence was thrilling.  Had to watch the kids fighting scene with my hands over my eyes!  A lot of story advancement throughout, you can feel the lines being drawn.

I can't say I'm unhappy about a Matt Smith sex scene. 😍

I got a kick out of Ty Tennant's performance as Aegon.  I hope Laenor will find happiness and wonder if we'll see him again.  The whole Velaryon family is very interesting and complex. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Tippi
Changed a bit of wording.

[paigow]

8 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

Interestingly, 'Aemond' is 'Daemon' except with the D at the end vs the start of the name... weird that I never caught that until now... 👀 🤔 hmm

Old, blind Maester of The Wall , circa Jon Snow, was Aemon 

Edited October 3, 2022 by paigow

[Diapason Untuned]

40 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Where the episode cut off left out a lot of the ramifications from the ruse and marriage.

1. Are Rhae's kids in on the ruse? Or are they being led to believe their "father" is dead? Either way, it's asking a lot of them. Either they will mourn for real Laenor's death right on top of mourning their real father's death, or they will have to keep up appearances for potentially the rest of their lifetimes.

Honestly I think they told them. The elder brother at least is old enough to keep his mouth shut and the younger will have to grow up quick.

Quote

2, Did Dae/Rhae come up with a plan for Seasmoke? For handling the fallout from the Velaryons when they got married about as soon as "Laenor's" body stopped smouldering? Whether the Velaryons will still be on Team Rhae given this marriage? (I suppose they don't have a ton of other choices, plus he's still father to their grandkids, but still).

Laenor still acknowledged Jace and Luke as his kids even if they aren't and he agreed. Not to mention Daemon is the father of their grandchildren as well.  The Velaryons might huff, but he's pretty clearly on Rhaenrya's side.

Quote

3. How are Viserys, Alicent and the others going to react to the marriage?

Alicent's opinion of Rhaenrya can hardly get any worse and Viserys, ironically, was pleading for the family to get together, so he can't much complain at this point.

[Scarlett45]

4 hours ago, MrsR said:

During the season break look up Allison Weir or Dan Jones on Amazon and get with the Plantagenets. Then relax those knickers and enjoy whatever craziness the rest of the show has to offer. Cause the P's were effing crazy.

Yes- I like both of those historians. 😄

[The Kings Foot]

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

It would be "an asshole move" in *our* world, but in this fantasy world it was a clever one. He had not given a dragon in his birth and he was mocked by his brother and cousins because of it. So when he saw his chance to get a dragon, he acted quickly which is right thing to in this world.

Him riding the dragon was super. Unlike the "pig scene" (which no doubt motivated him) made one think, he is now both brave and cunning. He also accepted his loss of an eye to be a smaller thing than winning a dragon to himself. The first really interesting character in this series!   

Laena's daughter also lacked a dragon and she was told by her mother that there are other ways to get one. The funeral didn't happen immediately after her mother's death, so she had time to make the dragon hers. She was a fool not act at once.    

Man so many people calling Aemond a bully and not realising his on his own hero's journey. Getting his dragon, fighting ,  off his usurping bastard nephews, losing his eye. If he's on the winning side just imagine the legend that will be built around him

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Seems like Viserys should be able to say "Sorry, no son, you don't get Vhagar."

Someone going to tell Vhagar that ?

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Nah, just that they made a mistake that they obviously corrected later. Now the rings of power writers, they are stupid. ;)

Or her father the King said  King Consort because he still assumes the husband has precedence, while she decided she wants to take precedence and so deliberately said Prince Consort to Daemon.

Note England has had both. Phillip II of Spain was King Consort to Mary I,  Phillip Mountbatten was Prince Consort to Elizabeth II.

Edited October 3, 2022 by The Kings Foot

[Avabelle]

In all my hating Alicent I forgot to call out the even weaker villain origin of Ser Criston - you have sex with the princess and you’re butthurt because she won’t run off with you so you turn into a horrid, bitter little cretin who picks on kids out of spite and follows the equally bitter queen around like a lapdog.

Alicent and Ser Criston - the most smackable pairing in tv right now. 

[jeansheridan]

6 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

Man so many people calling Aemond a bully and not realising his on his own hero's journey. Getting his dragon, fighting ,  off his usurping bastard nephews, losing his eye. If he's on the winning side just imagine the legend that will be built around him

I don't disagree with you. History is told by the winners. This could be a hero's journey. But we will know he made some a$$h0le moves on the way up. 

[cambridgeguy]

4 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

Alicent and Ser Criston - the most smackable pairing in tv right now.

Why do I get the feeling Criston only refused to extract an eye because Viserys and the rest of the Kingsguard never would have allowed it?  Ser Harrold clearly didn't trust him since he tried to intercept him and repeatedly ordered him to stand down after Alicent grabbed the knife. 

[paigow]

How bad is future Aegon that he is deemed Unworthy when current Aegon is already there????

Edited October 4, 2022 by paigow

[Avabelle]

7 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Why do I get the feeling Criston only refused to extract an eye because Viserys and the rest of the Kingsguard never would have allowed it?  Ser Harrold clearly didn't trust him since he tried to intercept him and repeatedly ordered him to stand down after Alicent grabbed the knife. 

I’d say that was the reason. He’s venomous towards the kids so I don’t think he would have hesitated. Also anyone else feel he’s likely in love with Alicent at this point?

[DigitalCount]

25 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

Man so many people calling Aemond a bully and not realising his on his own hero's journey. Getting his dragon, fighting ,  off his usurping bastard nephews, losing his eye. If he's on the winning side just imagine the legend that will be built around him

The reason why I don't see him as heroic is because the tell is that he used a similar insult to hurt Rhaena (who had done nothing to him) as was used on him. Kids who get picked on can often go either way, either "no one should have to suffer the way I did" or "now it's my turn to be the person with the boot" and it seems intentionally written to signify that Aemond is looking forward to stepping on others. How long had it been since Laena died, when he told Rhaena that she should have taken her mother's dragon? How long had it been since Harwin died that he told the boys they would die burning just like their father? The kid is a bad seed. No hero's journey to be found in my estimation, and his scar is a bad-guy scar anyway.

[ursula]

26 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

In all my hating Alicent I forgot to call out the even weaker villain origin of Ser Criston - you have sex with the princess and you’re butthurt because she won’t run off with you so you turn into a horrid, bitter little cretin who picks on kids out of spite and follows the equally bitter queen around like a lapdog.

Alicent and Ser Criston - the most smackable pairing in tv right now. 

Cole is a victim of sexual assault in an environment/society where men aren’t given the tools (or even the words) to process that. So ruining Rhaenyra’s life is his own therapy. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a villain and his actions towards the children are unforgivable. But people diminishing what happened to him to “he wanted Rhae to run away with him and she refused” are missing the point of his story.

1 minute ago, DigitalCount said:

The reason why I don't see him as heroic is because the tell is that he used a similar insult to hurt Rhaena (who had done nothing to him) as was used on him. Kids who get picked on can often go either way, either "no one should have to suffer the way I did" or "now it's my turn to be the person with the boot" and it seems intentionally written to signify that Aemond is looking forward to stepping on others. How long had it been since Laena died, when he told Rhaena that she should have taken her mother's dragon? How long had it been since Harwin died that he told the boys they would die burning just like their father? The kid is a bad seed. No hero's journey to be found in my estimation, and his scar is a bad-guy scar anyway.

And he hits girls that are younger and smaller than him. Not sure how anyone can spin that as “heroic”. 

[dramachick]

9 hours ago, KLJ said:

But are the Targaryeans also Valryrians technically too?  

The way I understand it is the family Velaryon is from Velyria just like the family Targaryen, and everybody from there has white hair.

[Avabelle]

4 minutes ago, ursula said:

But people diminishing what happened to him to “he wanted Rhae to run away with him and she refused” are missing the point of his story.

It’s not missing the point, it’s simply not agreeing. He was naive about what would happen with their relationship once it was consummated and is now bitter because of it. 
 

5 minutes ago, ursula said:

And he hits girls that are younger and smaller than him. Not sure how anyone can spin that as “heroic”. 

Yet people have tried to all thread. Everyone has their side and will defend it no matter what the actions. I’m delighted the little creep lost his eye. 

[Constantinople]

So was Helaena casting a spell when she crushed the spider?

Or was it some kind of offering on behalf of Laena given that Helaena put the spider in a sea shell?

[Lady S.]

41 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Where the episode cut off left out a lot of the ramifications from the ruse and marriage.

1. Are Rhae's kids in on the ruse? Or are they being led to believe their "father" is dead? Either way, it's asking a lot of them. Either they will mourn for real Laenor's death right on top of mourning their real father's death, or they will have to keep up appearances for potentially the rest of their lifetimes.

3. How are Viserys, Alicent and the others going to react to the marriage?

1. Oh, absolutely those kids think both dads are dead. Jace had to figure out his paternity himself, because Rhaenyra knew better than to trust children with that lie. Laenor's faked death is an even bigger secret, if anything. The kids' brown hair is enough to start rumors, but with no DNA testing and Viserys backing them, there's deniability until he finally kicks it. Rumors of adulterty and bigamy would be too much to live down.

3. Not well, but Viserys ain't disinheriting her in favor of NotAemma's kids when he hasn't already.

1 hour ago, DigitalCount said:

Well, they are simultaneously cousins, step siblings, and first cousins once removed, so what's another relation in the mix? I'm sure there's another one that I'm missing.

Well, thanks to Harwin they are less blood-related than they could have been. Though, yeah, still first cousins once-removed through Daemon and (double? triple?) third cousins through their respective grandparents being first cousins. But that wouldn't even count as incest in Targ terms.

Rhaenyra was finally drawing battle lines after the kids' fight, demanding Aemond be questioned, but notably she had made no aggression toward Alicent before that. I don't just mean the Jace/Helaena proposol but the fact that her boys admired Aegon and acted as his minions to begin with. Would she be allowing them to grow close if she was already planning to off her half-bros? I don't think they had to spend so much time together if she didn't want them to. That was her actually being the less politically calculating one and trying to abide by her father's wishes for a unified family. Now that's impossible and she can say she's not acting without provocation when her sons' lives were under threat before the age of 10.

The idea that her fucking around and faking Laenor's death means she's willing to even murder all the remaining Velaryons, including her new stepdaughters, as suggested pages back, is even more bizaaro. Daemon may ignore his dragonless daughter and not care much if his girls were hit, but that's a long way from allowing Rhaenyra to murder them for no reason when betrothing Luke to one of them is a much neater and obvious solution.

3 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

I’d say that was the reason. He’s venomous towards the kids so I don’t think he would have hesitated. Also anyone else feel he’s likely in love with Alicent at this point?

Only a pure chivalric love from afar, as he wanted to have for Rhaenyra before she ruined it. His whole grudge against Rhaenyra is that she wanted him as her "whore" instead of marrying him to clean their soiled honor. The already-married Queen is even more obviously off-limits, so if his ideal of decent womanhood propositioned him I think either his head would explode or he'd turn on her too. From Alicent's side she's too fueled by her own righteousness to risk hypocrisy by trying to have sex for pleasure even once. How can she hate Rhaenyra and all her bastards without that jealousy? And she's gone too far down the path of war to turn back now so she needs that jealousy and righteousness for her determination to win the game at all costs. (And though Cole is obviously attractive, I don't think she trusts or values him as more than a sword and a sounding board in their Rhaenyra haters club. Larys is the one she truly confides in, dangerous as that is.)

[ursula]

5 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

It’s not missing the point, it’s simply not agreeing. He was naive about what would happen with their relationship once it was consummated and is now bitter because of it. 

I don’t think it’s either/or. Yes, he was naive (or more like wishful) about what their sexual relationship would mean/lead to. And he was also coerced into that relationship in the first place. 
 

4 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

if his ideal of decent womanhood propositioned him I think either his head would explode

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 The way I did a spit take when I read this!
 

[ybrik]

This was a really interesting episode. I think the series is definitely setting up reasons for both sides to hate the other. 

The kids fighting could be blamed on all the kids to an extent but mostly I fill this is more Alicent and Cole’s fault that it went to such extremes. I think Aemond is kind of momma’s boy and seems to have taken in everything she has been telling Aegon. Also you have Criston basically treating Alicent’s and Rhaenyra’s kids differently. Look at the beginning of the episode when he and Jace look at each other. It looks like Aemond wants to say something nice or friendly but he can’t because he has been taught they are stealing from him and his brother and sister. 

Do have to agree with above posts about Criston and his view of Alicent. I think if Alicent had told Criston what Larys had done Criston would have killed him. He didn’t like the way Larys was continually staring at her ‘unabashedly’. I do wonder what he would have done not only about Alicent’s initial request for taking Luke’s eye but then when Alicent and Rhaenyra were locked up together if Daemon and the other guards hadn’t stopped him?

For those saying Aemond didn’t need to lose an eye for the dragon should remember what Haelena said last week that he would only get a dragon when he closed his eye. So maybe he did have to lose an eye.

I do think it is interesting that if you really listen to what Rhaenyra and Daemon said at the end, they do basically hint that Laenor’s death was being faked. Daemon telling Rhaenyra that she had to let him and then they mention that the realm will believe them behind Leanor’s death but only they would know the truth and their enemies wouldn’t have a clue. 

[Avabelle]

6 minutes ago, ybrik said:

they mention that the realm will believe them behind Leanor’s death but only they would know the truth and their enemies wouldn’t have a clue. 

Til he comes rocking back in about two seasons time… probably to mark a season finale. 

[Affogato]

9 hours ago, Enigma X said:

Speaking of aging, what is the age difference between Daemon and Viserys?

The actors, ten years. 

[Lamima]

3 hours ago, Cristofle said:

I did not get this from Laenor at all. He was shaken, and he knew they needed to hurry, I'm sure, but Laenor went all in on the little act they put on to ensure they'd have a "witness" for Laenor's supposed attack. Whether or not one thinks it's logical he'd want to do this (I think he would, personally - Laenor is kind, but not particularly strong, and more than anything else in the world, he wants out of this role he does not fit into and I imagine he desperately wants to stop hating himself), I got no indication he was devastated about it. 

The poster meant he was destroyed in the water during funeral

[The Kings Foot]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

For some reason this quote isn't deleting

1 hour ago, Avabelle said:

 

Yet people have tried to all thread. Everyone has their side and will defend it no matter what the actions. I’m delighted the little creep lost his eye. 

1 hour ago, ursula said:

And he hits girls that are younger and smaller than him. Not sure how anyone can spin that as “heroic”. 

1 hour ago, DigitalCount said:

The reason why I don't see him as heroic is because the tell is that he used a similar insult to hurt Rhaena (who had done nothing to him) as was used on him. Kids who get picked on can often go either way, either "no one should have to suffer the way I did" or "now it's my turn to be the person with the boot" and it seems intentionally written to signify that Aemond is looking forward to stepping on others. How long had it been since Laena died, when he told Rhaena that she should have taken her mother's dragon? How long had it been since Harwin died that he told the boys they would die burning just like their father? The kid is a bad seed. No hero's journey to be found in my estimation, and his scar is a bad-guy scar anyway.

You guys are taking this way too seriously . Aemond's  plot so far is clearly meant to mimic a hero's journey though without the goodness that makes a hero. I have no doubt he'll wind up doing some superficially heroic deeds.

It's   one of GRRMs favourite tropes-  take a clichéd plot device and turn it inside out.

1 hour ago, Lady S. said:

1.  

Only a pure chivalric love from afar, as he wanted to have for Rhaenyra before she ruined it. His whole grudge against Rhaenyra is that she wanted him as her "whore" instead of marrying him to clean their soiled honor. The already-married Queen is even more obviously off-limits, so if his ideal of decent womanhood propositioned him I think either his head would explode or he'd turn on her too. 

Correct. He obviously has a Madonna/ Whore complex. If Alicent propositioned him we'd have a murder suicide on our hands.

Edited October 3, 2022 by The Kings Foot

[UnoAgain]

35 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

Til he comes rocking back in about two seasons time… probably to mark a season finale. 

I'd like to see him again... Think Luke will take it the hardest... I do wonder how their relationship with their mom and grand uncle-cousin stepdad will go.. Jace seemed upset that harwin was killed.. Dunno how he felt about his dad.. But now his dad dies and daemon pops up.. And if they don't tell the boys.. Then wouldn't the rumor...  That Rhae and Dae had him killed.. Get the boys mad... Joffrey is a baby but like and jace are old enough... Luke especially as he's only known Laenor as a father

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 hours ago, Scaeva said:

The Baratheons are originally Valyrian as well, though they don't have the white hair. There might be others but that's the only other I can recall at the moment with a prominent role in either television series.

Yes, the Baratheons are descended from Aegon the Conqueror's bastard half-brother Orys Baratheon, who was one of his generals in the Conquest. Orys killed the last storm king of the Stormlands, Argilac Durrandon ("Argilac the Arrogant") in battle and later married his daughter Argella. The Durrandon words, colors and symbol became the Baratheons'.

They've had other marriages with the Velaryons and Targaryens since then as well. Which is why Rhaenys addressed Lord Boremund Baratheon as "cousin" at the tourney; her mother was Jocelyn Baratheon. And part of the reason why Robert was hailed as king rather than Jon Arryn, Ned or Tywin; his paternal grandmother was Princess Rhaelle Targaryen.

(These facts are present in the Baratheon lineage book Ned consults in Game of Thrones and the DVD/Blu-Ray historical extras, so it's not book talk strictly speaking, also it's just history and doesn't spoil anything.)

House Celtigar on Claw Isle off the coast of the Crownlands (the area around King's Landing and Dragonstone) is also originally Valyrian but hasn't kept the look.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Lady S.]

1 hour ago, ybrik said:

He didn’t like the way Larys was continually staring at her ‘unabashedly’.

I thought it was funny he tried to warn her about Larys leering and she just says it's a look of pride about being Lord of Harrenhal, which is a complete non sequiter that doesn't explain why he's staring at her in particular. (What does his sudden inheritance have to do with you, Your Grace?) Also, notice that it's Ser Criston, but just Larys, not Lord Larys or Lord Strong. That's what I mean about her being closer to Larys, for better or worse.

Trying to decode Helaena's latest ramblings, the "green spool" and "black spool" obviously refer to Alicent's and Rhaenyra's favorite colors. "Dragons made of thread" could refer to the sigils on their banners. I'm thinking each side has different banners after Viserys's death just like Renly and Stannis in GoT. ("I suppose if we used the same banner, the battle would be terribly confusing.") Team Aegon(Alicent) could have either a green dragon instead of red or a dragon breathing green fire, like the Hightower's war beacon. It's not as clear as saying Aemond would have to close an eye last ep, though. Trapping the spider in a seashell could symbolize how she is now trapped in her role in the tragedy, another in the game of thrones, by Alicent making her Aegon's "future Queen".

[paigow]

3 hours ago, The Kings Foot said:

Aemond's  plot so far is clearly meant to mimic a hero's journey though without the goodness that makes a hero.

Aemond has already been compared to Draco Malfoy... He might end up more like these guys...

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by paigow

[The Kings Foot]

4 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

his scar is a bad-guy scar anyway.

Nick Fury

Snake Plisken

Edited October 4, 2022 by The Kings Foot

[Athena5217]

14 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

The second one just made me think of something - in Game of Thrones world, aren't the children supposed to look exactly like their fathers?  That was Joffrey's problem in the original, and Rhaenyra's kids' problem now...  

I think we should just give up on trying to make sense of how genetics work in the Game of Thrones world. The only rule is that generics work however the TV show writers or GRRM need them to for the plot.

I hated the lack of  lighting in this episode. When Corlys told Qarl to get Laenor out of the water, it was daylight. Then when Qarl came back with Laenor it was dusk, and I didn’t see well the rest of the episode. Even Daemon and Rhaenyra, who are so pale they almost reflect light, were hard to see clearly. 
 
I am going to pray to the Lord of Light for better lighting the next episode. Now if only I had some king’s blood . . .

[paigow]

9 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

I am going to pray to the Lord of Light

The screen is dark and could be full of terrors, but maybe not

[Lady S.]

Speaking of which, let's add this to Rhaenyra's sins: she sent her boys to bed before it was full dark.

[FnkyChkn34]

15 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

Speaking of which, let's add this to Rhaenyra's sins: she sent her boys to bed before it was full dark.

I thought that somehow she knew shit was about to go down though, and she was getting them out of harm's way... 

Or, she just wanted to go boff her uncle. 

Either one.  

[ZeeEnnui]

15 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Aemond wasn't some innocent bystander. He was sneaking around in the middle of night to get the dragon at the funeral of the former rider. That is an asshole move. The girls just lost their mother, they were not thinking of claiming her dragon yet. They just buried her. 

As pointed out above. Rhaenyra and Laena's kids care about one another and were defending their family. Alicent's kids don't seem to care about each other like that. 

Sure. But, I felt like the whole day that Aemond was the only one that could hear the pain in Vhagar's cries. That's what drew him to the dragon. Obviously, his desire for a dragon was a part of this, but I felt like it may have also been deeper than that. Also, what we learned an episode or two ago is that "the wand chooses the wizard" the dragon chooses the rider. Vhagar was Laena's, but he didn't belong to Rhaena. He chose Aemond. Vhagar could have also fried Aemond like fake Laenor in the fireplace. There are honestly no guarantees that he would have chosen Rhaena. For all we know he would have rejected her. Which would probably have been even more hurtful. Unlike LinkedIn, I don't believe that there is a criteria list for dragons choosing their rider. 

Here was what didn't work for me. The rapid bonding between Rhaenyra and Laena's kids. They don't know each other at all. You don't suddenly become insta-family after meeting at the most awkward funeral ever. 

Look was Aemond an asshole? Yes. Were Rhaena and Baela right to be upset. 1000% But....this was a 4-1 beat down. I don't think that Aemond was going to kill them. The threats were empty. I'd threaten with a rock too to get people to back down. Remember, those kids kept coming at him. And, I'm sorry but a bringing a knife to a kid brawl? Not cool. Even if Aemond is the worst (and I don't think it's that simple), he still didn't deserve to lose an eye. 

This show is so Goth even the screen is black.

Rhaenys has no time for Rhaenyra. While, it sucks that she ignores Laenor's "sons" I can hardly blame her for giving Rhaena and Baela some much needed affection. Where is a Werther's Originals when you need it?

Viserys continues to be as useless as the skin desperately clinging to his body. Instead of playing Legos in the Red Keep, he should have showed up and acted like a king. Seriously, having everyone watch as he yells at his kids in the aftermath of Eyeball Gate only showed how weak he was. While it's awesome that he loves Rhaenyra, and accepts her children, House Targaryen really needed a PR expert to help spin the legitimacy of his grandchildren's parentage. Where's Eli Gold when you need him? It's also kind of a bummer because you have to wonder how different things would have been if he'd shown his children with Alicent some of the same affection that he does Rhaenyra's kids. Bro, you made the call to have your son and your wife died (she was going to die anyway but still). You got your sons and a creepy daughter. Be a dad to them too because what's coming has a lot to do with your inability to king-up. 

It wouldn't be an episode of House of the Dragon, if we didn't get a little boning bloodline action.