S01.E07: Driftmark

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, ursula said:

Am I missing something? Why is everyone forgetting that Baela punched him after he shoved her sister on the ground? 

Youre missing the part where Rhaena attacked and pushed him first

[AntFTW]

35 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Im team aemond on this one, he was pretty much defending himself till luke threw dirt in his eye and sliced him. But ultimately, he was right, if they wanted the dragon, they shouldve claimed her, he was the only one that had the balls to do it.

It's not that he was the only one with the balls to do it. I'm sure they would have claimed the dragon. I'm sure the Rhaena "had the balls" to ride the dragon but she was obeying the adults by being in bed. No one thought someone would claim the dragon out from under her (especially when that 'someone' wasn't supposed to be anywhere near the dragons).

No one thought Aemond would sneak out in the dead of night to attempt mounting a dragon. No one would have allowed it. He would have had to wait for his dragon just like his siblings and nephews had to. He didn't want to wait anymore. He was supposed to be in bed like the others.

[ursula]

38 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Also, Daemond is the only parent present that has no emotions on the fight between the children.

OK am I the only one who finds it weird the way they depict Daemond as so disconnected from his children? In that confrontation scene, all the other kids have one parent hovering around them, while Daemond is just casually leaning in the background. His daughters had been beaten up and he had zero reaction?

2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I just watched this 15 seconds before I type this... 

Aemond comes in talking shit, being a pompous little asshole. They have the conversation where she says the dragon was hers to claim, then he says her mother is dead and a pig would suit her. She then runs at him and he violently throws her to the ground. The older sister then punches him in defense of him throwing her sister. 

My take is that Aemond started it in more ways than one. 

Oh thank goodness. I had to read through the whole thread to find someone mention this. The way some were arguing it was like Aemond was standing quietly and Baela just ran up and punched him in the face for no reason. 

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

Also, Daemond is the only parent present that has no emotions on the fight between the children.

Alicent's mad that her son lost an eye.

Rhaenyra's mad that her son's nose is broken.

Daemon, nothing. His daughters gets punched and shoved to the ground, and we get nothing from him.

30 minutes ago, ursula said:

OK am I the only one who finds it weird the way they depict Daemond as so disconnected from his children? In that confrontation scene, all the other kids have one parent hovering around them, while Daemond is just casually leaning in the background. His daughters had been beaten up and he had zero reaction?

It's not much a different reaction than when Viserys was kicking him.

Perhaps Daemon subscribes to Henry Hill's school of thought from Goodfellas "The way I saw it, everybody takes a beating sometime.”

Or perhaps Daemon thought speaking up might be counterproductive. It's not as if Daemon has a sterling reputation and Daemon knows it.

[LoveLeigh]

Wow some of these scenes were so dark (no light) I could hardly see what was happening. 

[UnoAgain]

4 hours ago, Constantinople said:

And I don't think the pig remark was worthy of responding with violence.

Last episode, Aegon, Jace and Luke brought an actual pig with fake wings to Aemond and he didn't respond with violence

Yeah but Aemond's mother didn't just die

[cambridgeguy]

I bet Viserys wishes he had declared Rhaenyra's future sons to be his heirs back before episode 1 if he couldn't be moved from his boys rule stance.  He'd still be happily married to Aemma, Alicent and Rhaenyra would still be buds, Otto would be on his side thanks to his anyone but Daemon sentiments, etc.  Now he has to deal with his grandson stabbing his son, his wife brandishing a knife at his daughter, Daemon being Daemon (OK, that would have happened anyway).

If Rhaenyra and Daemon do end up having kids let's hope they are good enough parents to ensure those true-blooded Targs don't resent their older half-siblings.  Or who knows, maybe they'll all end up dead, although obviously at least one Targ has to survive this.

[ottoDbusdriver]

8 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Great episode. Was the screen so dark as to be inscrutable for much of the beach/dragon scene?

7 hours ago, absnow54 said:

I hate these night vision episodes. It wasn’t as bad as the darkest night, but still, will someone light some damn candles?

1 hour ago, LoveLeigh said:

Wow some of these scenes were so dark (no light) I could hardly see what was happening. 

So much of the episode was do dark that you could barely tell who was on screen without the captions -- and even then for some scenes you weren't quite sure.

Maybe next time they film these scenes to make it look liked they take place during a full moon -- so the scenes are at least partly lit.

[GustavMahler]

What a twist on expectations. Instead of the kids in a show dragging and grinding an episode to a full stop, they actually were responsible for salvaging a  boring one. Well done boys and girls!

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

He now understands that he was manipulated into marrying her.

She continually trash talks his grandchildren and he’s sicker. 

[Cristofle]

2 hours ago, LoveLeigh said:

Wow some of these scenes were so dark (no light) I could hardly see what was happening. 

The crap lighting of this episode was the real villain, lol. I had to watch a couple scenes over to understand what was going on. 

It's obvious at this point that Rhaenyra is the one living person Viserys loves most in the world. I think in his mind, Aemma is his one true love (despite what the role he played in her terrible death without her consent) and Rhaenyra is the child of that union, versus he realizes now that he got played re: Alicent and is not nearly as attached to their children. I don't know if it's just a tone or what, but his...lack of care for Aegon seems extra concentrated. Interesting that he wanted a living son for so long and he got not just one but two, and he's like "...Nope, still prefer Rhaenyra, thanks." Aemma was never going to survive the labor, but she truly died in such a horrendous way for nothing. He doesn't seem to want the sons he has. 

And still, if he was a more forceful personality, that scene would not have gotten nearly as far as it did. He also should have publicly repudiated Alicent more forcefully, given that he's chosen to protect Rhaenyra and her sons above all else. Alicent tried to override his explicit ruling to a member of the Kingsguard and then grabbed HIS dagger from him and attacked his daughter and heir with it. He should have made sure - in front of everyone - that such a thing never happened again.  

[paigow]

Now that Corlys was revealed to be alive all this time... Why was he not chosen as Hand?

[Pestilentia]

8 hours ago, The Kings Foot said:

All I'll say at this point is the first half of this episode  felt very British.

For an episode with such significant events it sure was sleep inducing while getting to it. 

OK- all the children suck and are entitled little assholes. I think all this "Bobby said six words of instigation but Billy said eight so He. Started. It." is absurd.

They've been throwing shade at each other every moment of their lives since each of them were born, it just blew up that's all. Deaths, funerals, major life events- emotions run high and simmering resentments come to a head at the slightest provocation, we've all seen it.
I don't really see the need to assign 60% percent blame here, 35% there etc. so we can list them in order of responsibility. They're no more than representations of their parents' lifelong bickering anyway and any adult in that room surprised by the outbursts hasn't been paying attention. When you raise your children to be pawns on your own personal chessboard you can't complain when they get tossed around by the other side. Just find it odd that we work so hard to justify our personal inferences, and after one viewing at that.

[Cristofle]

I do think part of the reason that Aemond got beat so hard, to the point of losing an eye, is his lack of understanding of real loyalty and bonds between siblings and cousins. He knows he's SUPPOSED to do his duty, as his mother has taught him (hence his telling Aegon he'd do as he was told if he had been betrothed to Helaena) but there is absolutely no connection between Aegon and Aemond, or Aemond and Helaena, or Aemond and his cousins. Alicent fostered duty, but not love (and she encouraged outright hostility between Aemond and his cousins). Jace and Luke love each other. Baela and Rhaena love each other. Jace was encouraged by his mother to care about Baela and Rhaena, and the cousins decided to be loyal to each other. Aemond thought he could run off at the mouth, and threaten to feed the kids to his dragon, and had no idea how far all four would go to protect one another. Which is kind of sad, I guess. Aemond is a product of his environment at the end of the day. 

[Sakura12]

Aemond wasn't some innocent bystander. He was sneaking around in the middle of night to get the dragon at the funeral of the former rider. That is an asshole move. The girls just lost their mother, they were not thinking of claiming her dragon yet. They just buried her. 

As pointed out above. Rhaenyra and Laena's kids care about one another and were defending their family. Alicent's kids don't seem to care about each other like that. 

[paigow]

Aemond is the new Stepstones Daemon... fuelled by anger and pride, he raged into battle, outnumbered and outgunned [daggered]. Arguing if he was heroic or an asshole is all well and good... but it was all justified to him.  Smacking Team Harwin around was delayed payback for the Pig-Dragon.

[Cristofle]

1 minute ago, paigow said:

Aemond is the new Stepstones Daemon... fuelled by anger and pride, he raged into battle, outnumbered and outgunned [daggered]. Arguing if he was heroic or an asshole is all well and good... but it was all justified to him.  Smacking Team Harwin around was delayed payback for the Pig-Dragon.

It was fairly obvious the pig thing was predominantly Aegon's idea, lol, and I think even Aemond knows it, but I do think he was so humiliated he wanted to turn it back on someone else (granted, that someone was Rhaena, who had nothing to do with what originally happened to him, but Aemond is someone who was bullied and wanted to respond by being a bully). 

[Meredith Quill]

Random thoughts.

Aemond really bringing his Draco Malfoy as soon as he gained a dragon. 

Interestingly, 'Aemond' is 'Daemon' except with the D at the end vs the start of the name... weird that I never caught that until now... 👀 🤔 hmm.

Alicent's eye for an eye - she showed her hand, to the Hand (and everyone else), oof.

Floved Ser Harold's look of 'fuck around and find out' at Cole in that moment.

Someone elsewhere pointed out that Daemon and Rhaenyra's wedding occurred some time later as the kids injuries were healed in the scene, well spotted.

Otto continues to slither, count me as another who wishes Corlys had been made Hand after Lyonel.

[FnkyChkn34]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The last episode explained it. If dragons were just personal property like dogs and horses, you could just give a dragon to someone. Aemond would not have needed to bond to Vhaegar and the second daughter of Daemon and Laena would have gotten a dragon as well. 

I think there was explicit dialogue saying/implying that when Laena was talking to Dragonless Daughter.

Going back to Game of Thrones, you might remember how Dany "traded" dragons for her Unsullied army and then was like Psych! That's an example of dragons not respecting "ownership" as such.

I understood that conversation to be more of "there aren't enough dragons to go around, and if your egg that you're given when you're born doesn't hatch, you have to wait for a different dragon rider to die to claim one."  Given that it was her mother telling her this, I think the daughter assumed that she'd be able to claim her mother's dragon. I'm sure the girl was waiting for a time more appropriate to do it - not the middle of the night directly after her mother's funeral.  Aemond was completely inappropriate to do what he did, whether he "stole" it in a modern definition or not.

[Meredith Quill]

6 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I understood that conversation to be more of "there aren't enough dragons to go around, and if your egg that you're given when you're born doesn't hatch, you have to wait for a different dragon rider to die to claim one."  Given that it was her mother telling her this, I think the daughter assumed that she'd be able to claim her mother's dragon. I'm sure the girl was waiting for a time more appropriate to do it - not the middle of the night directly after her mother's funeral.  Aemond was completely inappropriate to do what he did, whether he "stole" it in a modern definition or not.

In a nutshell it could be viewed as immoral but not illegal. Aka it was a pretty shitty thing considering the timing but not against 'the rules'. The timing displayed a massive amount of disrespect for Leana, which is also why her daughters were upset no doubt in my mind. Aka a dick move imo.

[FnkyChkn34]

36 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Aemond wasn't some innocent bystander. He was sneaking around in the middle of night to get the dragon at the funeral of the former rider. That is an asshole move. The girls just lost their mother, they were not thinking of claiming her dragon yet. They just buried her. 

As pointed out above. Rhaenyra and Laena's kids care about one another and were defending their family. Alicent's kids don't seem to care about each other like that. 

Alicent's kids don't seem to care about anything or anyone but themselves - just like Alicent.

[Enigma X]

I am ok if other people don't agree with me, but I have no sympathy for Aemond because he came off as a bully. I am glad he lost an eye.

I am disappointed at how Daemon seemed more interested in Rhaenyra than his children. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Alicent's kids are a product of their household -- an angry, miserable mother and absent father. Rhaenyra's boys and Daemon's girls are the result of a household where there is some love and affection. It might be very dysfunctional, but Laenor and Rhae seem to care about their children.

[Cristofle]

It was a good moment when Viserys asked Aemond who told him Jace and Luke were bastards, and for a long moment he stared directly at his mother (so long, even Viserys noticed it, no small feat) before saying it was Aegon. Also, a great small moment from Olivia when Jace first said Aemond had called him a bastard - for a second, I think Alicent realized SHE had instigated this by being so insistent in poisoning Aemond against Jace and Luke. Also, Viserys later looked right at Alicent when he said anyone who would question the birth of Jace and Luke would have their tongues removed. Alicent is nuts, but the scene did a good job of seeing her lose it blow by blow. Viserys denied her. Criston denied her. Then Viserys basically told her he'd take all their tongues if they kept talking about Rhaenyra, clearly choosing Rhaenyra above everyone else once and for all. 

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

It was a good moment when Viserys asked Aemond who told him Jace and Luke were bastards, and for a long moment he stared directly at his mother (so long, even Viserys noticed it, no small feat) before saying it was Aegon. Also, a great small moment from Olivia when Jace first said Aemond had called him a bastard - for a second, I think Alicent realized SHE had instigated this by being so insistent in poisoning Aemond against Jace and Luke. Also, Viserys later looked right at Alicent when he said anyone who would question the birth of Jace and Luke would have their tongues removed. Alicent is nuts, but the scene did a good job of seeing her lose it blow by blow. Viserys denied her. Criston denied her. Then Viserys basically told her he'd take all their tongues if they kept talking about Rhaenyra, clearly choosing Rhaenyra above everyone else once and for all. 

I think Alicent thought Viserys would be easy to manipulate. A couple rounds of flesh-rotting-off sex and Viserys would do anything she wanted. Viserys is weak  and ineffectual, but he's also a man with his own integrity. He made a promise to Rhaenyra when Aemma died, and has kept it. He refuses to drink the poison about his daughter, and shuts down Alicent's crazy schemes. 

[FnkyChkn34]

5 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I am ok if other people don't agree with me, but I have no sympathy for Aemond because he came off as a bully. I am glad he lost an eye.

I am disappointed at how Daemon seemed more interested in Rhaenyra than his children. 

I agree with the first comment.

The second one just made me think of something - in Game of Thrones world, aren't the children supposed to look exactly like their fathers?  That was Joffrey's problem in the original, and Rhaenyra's kids' problem now...  

But Daemon's daughters don't look like him.  They look exactly like their mother, and her side of the family.  Has anyone brought this up?  Other than Viserys saying something to Daemon at the funeral about how their resemblance to their mother is both a blessing and a curse?

Maybe Daemon is disinterested because they aren't really his?

[IntrovertRed]

10 hours ago, dramachick said:

Vaemond is fine with his nieces because they're Velaryons. Rhaenyra's children are not his blood.

But are the Targaryeans also Valryrians technically too?  

[ursula]

4 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I am ok if other people don't agree with me, but I have no sympathy for Aemond because he came off as a bully. I am glad he lost an eye.

I am disappointed at how Daemon seemed more interested in Rhaenyra than his children. 

Something else that no one’s pointed out is that Aemond hit and attacked girls, and for that matter, Ladies with capital L. If we’re going to judge Rhaenyra by the medieval standards of the story, then we absolutely should condemn Aemond for that act of supreme unchivalry. 
 

When I first watched the scene I got a visceral reaction about it and it took me rewatches to analyze how/why my instinct was to condemn Aemond even though he was technically out numbered and lost the most in the fight. I don’t even blame him for claiming Vhagar but his actions towards the kids afterwards were wrong. 
 

For all her moral righteousness, Alicent is a terrible mother who is raising her children to be sociopathic. And Tbf at this point I don’t blame her father. He wasn’t in King’s Landing while she was raising her children and influencing them. This is all on her. 

[Meredith Quill]

5 minutes ago, KLJ said:

But are the Targaryeans also Valryrians technically too?  

Valyria is the place where Targaryens and Velaryons originate from, so yes all Velaryons are Valyrians but not all Valyrians are Velaryons, some are Targaryens, heh.

[Cristofle]

1 minute ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think Alicent thought Viserys would be easy to manipulate. A couple rounds of flesh-rotting-off sex and Viserys would do anything she wanted. Viserys is weak  and ineffectual, but he's also a man with his own integrity. He made a promise to Rhaenyra when Aemma died, and has kept it. He refuses to drink the poison about his daughter, and shuts down Alicent's crazy schemes. 

Very true. I think for a long time, Alicent believed herself more capable of manipulating Viserys than she actually is. She did successfully get him to marry her even though she was a nonsensical match on its face, but that was pretty much where it ended. I said a couple episodes ago, Alicent severely overestimated the influence she had over Viserys when Otto got fired - she thought he was listening to her, but he wasn't. He knew full well Rhaenyra was no longer a virgin. He chose for her to remain his heir anyway. Viserys is weak. He is more than capable of being manipulated. But he is not fully blind to what's going on around him - he realized years ago that Alicent had manipualted him at Otto's bidding and I think she lost any trust he had in her from that moment on. Of course, we can see he can still be pushed over - it most certainly wasn't his idea to reinstall Otto - but Alicent will never win where Rhaenyra is concerned. Viserys will choose Rhaenyra over Alicent and their children every single time. And when he looked dead at her when he warned everyone never to speak of Jace and Luke being bastards again, I think she realized once and for all she has no power in this most important of situations. Viserys will never, ever choose Aegon as heir. He will never trust her more than Rhaenyra. He will never love her OR love his children with her as much as he loves Rhaenyra. 

[Enigma X]

3 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

in Game of Thrones world, aren't the children supposed to look exactly like their fathers?  That was Joffrey's problem in the original, and Rhaenyra's kids' problem now...  

But Daemon's daughters don't look like him.  They look exactly like their mother, and her side of the family.  Has anyone brought this up?  Other than Viserys saying something to Daemon at the funeral about how their resemblance to their mother is both a blessing and a curse?

Maybe Daemon is disinterested because they aren't really his?

I won't say too much because I am not sure if the "No Book Talk" for GoT extends here, but that was not how it worked. Supposedly, half the Stark kids looked like dad and the other half looked like mom.

I really hate the whole Ned "you are not the daddy" science that was conveniently introduced when needed but disregarded when not.

[AntFTW]

17 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I am ok if other people don't agree with me, but I have no sympathy for Aemond because he came off as a bully. I am glad he lost an eye.

I don’t feel bad. He fucked around and found out.

[Cristofle]

11 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

The second one just made me think of something - in Game of Thrones world, aren't the children supposed to look exactly like their fathers?  That was Joffrey's problem in the original, and Rhaenyra's kids' problem now...  

But Daemon's daughters don't look like him.  They look exactly like their mother, and her side of the family.  Has anyone brought this up?  Other than Viserys saying something to Daemon at the funeral about how their resemblance to their mother is both a blessing and a curse?

Maybe Daemon is disinterested because they aren't really his?

The Targaryen line is weak, because of centuries of incest. Which leads to a cycle of them CONTINUING their incestuous ways to "keep the bloodline pure". That's why Jon looks every inch a Stark even though his father was Rhaegar, because the Stark line is so much stronger. I guess the Velaryan line is stronger too. 

That said, it was kind of interesting that Daemon seemed somewhat disinterested that his daughters had been insulted and attacked by Aemond. He was just chilling in the doorway enjoying himself until near the end, and what caused him to finally react was RHAENYRA in danger. And even when he finally gets to Rhaenyra, in the wide above shot, we can see him put his arm around Luke. He doesn't go to his daughters. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Cristofle

[absnow54]

49 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Aemond wasn't some innocent bystander. He was sneaking around in the middle of night to get the dragon at the funeral of the former rider. That is an asshole move. The girls just lost their mother, they were not thinking of claiming her dragon yet. They just buried her. 

And on top of that, Aemond was a guest in their family home. It's not like Vhagar was chilling in the Dragon Pit. There was no urgency for Rhaena to claim Vhagar, because Vhagar followed them to Driftmark. What Aemond did was not honorable, but I've been watching this series long enough to know that doesn't matter in the long run. 

5 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

But Daemon's daughters don't look like him.  They look exactly like their mother, and her side of the family.  Has anyone brought this up?  Other than Viserys saying something to Daemon at the funeral about how their resemblance to their mother is both a blessing and a curse?

Leana and Leanor are half Targaryen. Their mother Rhaenys is Daemon's cousin, so it's not unheard of for the Velayreon genes to strongly dominate.

45 minutes ago, paigow said:

Aemond is the new Stepstones Daemon... fuelled by anger and pride, he raged into battle, outnumbered and outgunned [daggered]. Arguing if he was heroic or an asshole is all well and good... but it was all justified to him.  Smacking Team Harwin around was delayed payback for the Pig-Dragon.

Honestly, I'm disappointed in Daemon for not catching onto Aemond's intentions right away and spoiling his dragon poaching. Perhaps he has a fondness for second sons succeeding. Or, he was just distracted by other... things. 

[FnkyChkn34]

1 minute ago, Enigma X said:

I won't say too much because I am not sure if the "No Book Talk" for GoT extends here, but that was not how it worked. Supposedly, half the Stark kids looked like dad and the other half looked like mom.

I really hate the whole Ned "you are not the daddy" science that was conveniently introduced when needed but disregarded when not.

That's right - and it was in the show.  Sansa had red hair, Arya had dark...  But they seemed to want to argue it for every other family, LOL.

But also, the family tree that's posted here on this forum shows that there is Baratheon blood not too far back, on Laenor's side - someone should argue that Rhaenyra's kids just have that recessed gene.  (Kind of like Viserys did with the horse story.)

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, Cristofle said:

The Tagaryen line is weak, because of centuries of incest. Which leads to a cycle of them CONTINUING their incestuous ways to "keep the bloodline pure". That's why Jon looks every inch a Stark even though his father was Rhaegar, because the Stark line is so much stronger. I guess the Velaryan line is stronger too. 

This is what bothers me about all the Hightower kids looking 100% Targaryen. Rhaenyra's kids look all Strong, and Daemon's kids look all Velaryon. Yet, Alicent, with no Targaryen blood that we're aware of, only has silver blond babies. 

[Cristofle]

2 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

This is what bothers me about all the Hightower kids looking 100% Targaryen. Rhaenyra's kids look all Strong, and Daemon's kids look all Velaryon. Yet, Alicent, with no Targaryen blood that we're aware of, only has silver blond babies. 

Agreed. That's been weird to me, that none of her children take after her when you'd think her line would be much stronger. At least one of her children should look like her, lol. The Stark line is much stronger than the Targaryen line, but still, the Tully line won out with several of Ned and Cat's children. 

[Scarlett45]

7 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

I did love how Luce said he didn't want to be a lord because that meant everyone was dead. Rhynaera 's kids have hearts. And she seemed like an okay mother in this ep. She asked her son to be kind. She was clearly ready to take a knife for her son. 

And Aemon...that kid is a thinker. In pain and being ordered by his father/king, he protected his mother. Sure at the expense of his brother but Aegon hadn't earned his loyalty.

Luce is a sweetheart. I understand Luce, who wants the title if that means everyone you love is gone. 
 

One thing I don’t blame Aemond for is pointing the finger at Aegon. Firstly he knows their father won’t hurt Aegon, second Aegon has treated him like crap. Aemond of course wasn’t going to double cross his mom. I did think Aegon handled the blame pretty well, like the eldest should. Just “we know”, no fingers or accusations. 

[FnkyChkn34]

And we know that the Targaryen line stays strong enough for another 150+ years (at this point) so that Daenarys and her brother look exactly the same too.  

I guess it's just a convenient plot trope that they use when it suits them and forget about when it doesn't.

[LadyChaos]

What is sad, to me, is that I don't even think that Alicent gave two craps about Aemond actually getting hurt so much as she saw (in her mind) another time that Rhaenyra was getting away with something that Alicent felt she shouldn't. I mean when Alicent tried to attack Luc and Rhaenyra stopped her and they were whispering back and forth....none of it was about the kids, but about Alicent that it was unfair that Rhaenyra didn't seem bound by the same rules she was and Rhaenyra pointing out Alicent's hypocrisy.

[Enigma X]

I won't say I like Aegon, but I do not hate him (yet). He honestly seems like your average teen fuck up for modern times. 

[Lady Whistleup]

14 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Viserys will never, ever choose Aegon as heir. He will never trust her more than Rhaenyra. He will never love her OR love his children with her as much as he loves Rhaenyra. 

I think it's because Rhaenyra is the daughter of Aemma, his one true love. That was a love match and he feels so guilty for her dying. His loyalty to Rhae is a reminder of Aemma. Alicent was a marriage of convenience and once the lust for his young hot wife wore off, he realized he didn't like her much. 

[Meredith Quill]

57 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

That's right - and it was in the show.  Sansa had red hair, Arya had dark...  But they seemed to want to argue it for every other family, LOL.

But also, the family tree that's posted here on this forum shows that there is Baratheon blood not too far back, on Laenor's side - someone should argue that Rhaenyra's kids just have that recessed gene.  (Kind of like Viserys did with the horse story.)

Yup, as per the family tree topic - Rhaenys had a Baratheon mother, hence her calling a Baratheon knight in the tourney in ep1, "cousin". Rhaenys being of Baratheon blood + "the seed is strong" - can you figure out what doesn't add up here according to the show's own lore?

[Cristofle]

5 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

And we know that the Targaryen line stays strong enough for another 150+ years (at this point) so that Daenarys and her brother look exactly the same too.  

I guess it's just a convenient plot trope that they use when it suits them and forget about when it doesn't.

To be fair, Dany, Rhaegar, and Viserys had parents who were also siblings. LOL. The Targaryens will keep marrying each other for another 150+ years. 

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Aemond wasn't some innocent bystander. He was sneaking around in the middle of night to get the dragon at the funeral of the former rider. That is an asshole move. The girls just lost their mother, they were not thinking of claiming her dragon yet. They just buried her. 

It would be "an asshole move" in *our* world, but in this fantasy world it was a clever one. He had not given a dragon in his birth and he was mocked by his brother and cousins because of it. So when he saw his chance to get a dragon, he acted quickly which is right thing to in this world.

Him riding the dragon was super. Unlike the "pig scene" (which no doubt motivated him) made one think, he is now both brave and cunning. He also accepted his loss of an eye to be a smaller thing than winning a dragon to himself. The first really interesting character in this series!   

Laena's daughter also lacked a dragon and she was told by her mother that there are other ways to get one. The funeral didn't happen immediately after her mother's death, so she had time to make the dragon hers. She was a fool not act at once.    

[Enigma X]

Frankly, I have a whole bunch of questions about genetic inheritance on this show. Are the Targaryens and Velaryon families we see the only families left of Old Valiria? There are no peasants wandering around with white hair? Apparently, bastards don't inherit it. (Daemon and Viserys said they "whored" around. No illegitimate kids, I guess.) Anyway, this is not the thread for it, but this has been bugging me.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Enigma X

[Meredith Quill]

5 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

What is sad, to me, is that I don't even think that Alicent gave two craps about Aemond actually getting hurt so much as she saw (in her mind) another time that Rhaenyra was getting away with something that Alicent felt she shouldn't. I mean when Alicent tried to attack Luc and Rhaenyra stopped her and they were whispering back and forth....none of it was about the kids, but about Alicent that it was unfair that Rhaenyra didn't seem bound by the same rules she was and Rhaenyra pointing out Alicent's hypocrisy.

The salient point that apparently has sailed right over Alicent's (and Cole's) head like a 747 is - as the crown princess Rhaenyra is, more importantly, a royal princess of the blood and Alicent... is not, nor will she ever be herself, yet her children are. That is why Rhaenyra had so much more freedom. That is why Rhaenyra can flout convention and get away with it, rightly or wrongly.

4 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Frankly, I have a whole bunch of questions about genetic inheritance on this show. Are the Targaryens and Velaryon families we see the only families left of Old Valiria? There are no peasants wandering around with white hair? Apparently, bastards don't inherit it. (Daemon and Viserys said they "whored" around. No illegitimate kids, I guess.) Anyway, this is not the thread for it, but this has bee bugging me.

They are the only families left of Old Valyria yes. As for the rest... no comment 😉

[Roseanna]

11 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Alicent continues to be horrible. Her "an eye for an eye" insistence -- did she really believe Viserys would allow that? I understand she hurts because Aemond lost an eye, but she's still incredibly cruel. I love how she screamed at Rhae that she tried to do everything right, with honor. She's so jealous of Rhae's freedom. 

Alicent wasn't horrible nor cruel - she is a mother, so if course she acts like a lioness for her son.

And she was right about Rhaenyra whose "freedom" means presenting her bastards as legitimate children and heirs although they aren't.   

Her father was right, though.  

[LadyChaos]

11 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

The salient point that apparently has sailed right over Alicent's (and Cole's) head like a 747 is - as the crown princess Rhaenyra is, more importantly, a royal princess of the blood and Alicent... is not, nor will she ever be herself, yet her children are. That is why Rhaenyra had so much more freedom. That is why Rhaenyra can flout convention and get away with it, rightly or wrongly.

Rhaenyra also has a father who loves her, wants to see her happy, and sees the hypocrisy of how women are treated so he (IMO) doesn't actually care that Rhaenyra might be having sex with a man that is not her husband........whereas Alicent had a father who only cared about her as much as he could use her, and I think the strain of being used and doing her duty is making her crack.

ETA: I also think that Viserys is no fool, there is no way he doesn't know Laenor is gay, and likely he knew it before the marriage was arranged. I'm kind of, of the mind that it may have been one of the reasons why he was keen on the match. I think he hoped that Laenor wouldn't care if Rhaenrya gave birth to a kid that didn't look like him.....though, honestly I think Viserys was worried the kid might look a little too much like a Targaryen....

Edited October 3, 2022 by LadyChaos

[jeansheridan]

18 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Yet, Alicent, with no Targaryen blood that we're aware of, only has silver blond babies. 

It would be funny if there was a scene of her bleaching their hair. I think it's a pity because her hair is glorious. That is quite the wig on Olivia Cooke! The original actress looked like she might be using her own hair with a false piece. 

I actually like Rhynaera's wig. Emma looks so much like Eve and the woman who played their mother. Three strong women with sturdy hair. Not exactly beautiful but striking.