S19.E12: Finale Part 2

[Melonie77]

2 hours ago, Jaundiced Eye said:

I thought I read something once that the Bachelor/Bachelorette franchise conducts psych screenings on cast members before they're hired. Did I just imagine that? There is no way someone with Rachel's apparent psychopathologies could have slipped through. That's the only conceivable grounds for a lawsuit that I can imagine: if the show knowingly allowed a disturbed individual to participate, and as a lead no less!

I've read that too-about the psych tests. I don't know what happened w/ Ratchet. They had a season with her before this one so they should have known.🤷🏻‍♂️
I'm just speculating but I wonder if a lead could claim that the show caused extreme stress through manipulation of events. Or manipulation and editing led to defamation of character / destruction of reputation. Anyone can launch a suit. I just get the impression they were tiptoeing around her. But I guess everything is ok, because we see a snippet of Ratchet visiting BiP so she must still be a member in good standing of Bachelor Nation!🤣

[Tuneful]

31 minutes ago, Melonie77 said:

I was like he couldn't stand her anymore yet he did not leave the property, he begged the producers to help him end it. What kind of contracts do they sign that he could not just bolt?

That was terrible. I think the contract must be that you see every filming through,  you do not walk out no matter what. You see or call the host or producer if you have any questions. I think Logan walked out. I didn't see Tino, a macho and partying guy who works in construction, as a journal-keeping (more like record-keeping), fragile kind of guy--it was scary to see him so beaten up last night. I agree with the idea there must be one or more legal threats or actions behind the scenes and/or an autocratic, abusive management of the show. Perhaps Gabby is not as much of a crier as we saw at times. And Rachel, as awful as she is, kept threatening to quit. To see Jesse suck up to her 100% was just sickening.  Aven is in it for exposure, he knows what a nut Rachel is.     

Edited September 22, 2022 by Tuneful

[SassyCat]

Whoops! Posted to wrong forum 🤪

Edited September 22, 2022 by SassyCat
Wrong forum post

[deSchenke]

1) I thought the Neil Lane ring was very "simple" compared to previous seasons. Wondered what is going on there, budget cuts?

2) I could have sworn that Rachel said she did everything Tino asked her to do, she "went to therapy". So I wondered if she went to therapy because Tino asked her to go to therapy, or were the two comments completely disconnected and/or editing or timing was to blame.

3) Rachel specifically asked Tino, "Why did you do what you did?" and then complained that he didn't apologize. Did she want an explanation or an apology - which by the way, he did several times in exact words. But Rachel kept harping on the lack of apology.

4) If you only watched this episode, there were references to "cheating" or "doing what you did". From what Reality Steve said, and Tino's rather edited accounting, he only kissed the girl and that was because he thought it was over with Rachel. But TPTB would have you think Tino slept with another woman.

5) You really have to wonder what was the topic that was not to be discussed on camera?

Edited September 22, 2022 by deSchenke

[GracieK]

3 hours ago, Artsda said:

So Rachel just left like that and Gabby had to deal with the rest of the finale by herself?

I'm happy for Gabby and Erich.

Rachel is psychotic, the way she kept getting angry and going at Tino on tv and even at the fake meet up. I felt bad for him when he was crying to just have her break up with him, it was like he was being held hostage. I don't get how anyone in that audience and the host can not see her as just as bad as Tino.

Oh I have no doubt that Jesse knows all too well how difficult and high maintenance Rachel really is. He had to deal with her all season. And her men didn’t really get the full extent of her narcissistic traits because they had limited interaction with her. The cancelling dates and lectures over not looking at her (which LOL) on Gabby’s date would normally be major red flags to any guy. But in this world where you’re set up to compete, the guys natural instinct to emerge as victorious overrides rational decision making. No relationship after this experience was EVER going to work out for Rachel. This was the worst possible setup for someone as self centered as she clearly is. The lead is treated as a prize and she isn’t about to treat a partner as an equal after they “win” her. 
 

Anyway the franchise has an interest in making the lead the hero always - it’s key to their formula so that future contestants think they are also winning a prize. 

[maggiemae]

This is the first season I have watched.

IMO Jesse was rude to Tino leaving him hanging around while Aven swept in. Jesse did not even shake Tino's hand when Tino started to awkwardly walk out.

Ugh...this seemed like a show cow-towing to Rachel's tears and demands.

[DEL901]

I hate it, but I think the show has to bend over backwards to make the leads look good or they will have trouble casting in the future.  

[operakatz]

7 hours ago, SassyCat said:

Speaking of Tino’s journal, I think I know why he had one, started using one in the first place, and brought it with him to his discussion time with Rachel. 

She seems to be gaslighter extraordinaire, a very common trait of Narcissists. He certainly looked beaten down and flustered during this face to face time he had with her starting from the time he knocked on her door. He kept notes of what was actually said as the proof he needed to keep her from twisting his words of past, or outright lying about what was said, and to try and keep his ever dwindling sanity, while trying to communicate with this angry person. 

Everything she said was “taken out of context” she claimed, so that again, there is no fault on her part, it all again falls on him and his inability to read her mind as to what she actually said, versus what she “meant”. 

I was never in any way a fan of Tino, but seeing him wrung out like that and used up and spit out is exactly what narcissists do to people. They are the ones who never accept responsibility in anyway with their dealings with other people. 

No one will ever be loved by Rachael. Narcs don’t know what love is. They have none in their hearts, except for themselves. They only know they want everyone to  agree with them and worship them unconditionally.

Tino instinctively knew at some point during his relationship with her behind closed doors that he had to start protecting himself from the lying twister of his words or even her own suddenly denied, or “taken out of context” words. 

I had similar thoughts about this. I've called Rachel a gaslighter most of the season. She digs the hole then blames someone else when she falls into it. This finale was not at all entertaining. I honestly couldn't directly watch a lot of it. 

Rachel continuing to insist Tino did not apologize is just, well, insane. And every time he referred to a journal entry, she accused him of making things up. No one can win with that. She's a nightmare. And I'm actually angry watching her get validation for the abusive behavior from Jesse and other studio guests. 

[athousandclowns]

I need to qualify my question by saying this is the first bachelorette show I’ve watched since the first season. What confused me ( and  I watched it twice)   when Jesse was asking Gabby what she thought of Rachael after watching the clip of the beat down of Tino , she had a grin on her face and said she was so proud of her and happy for her that no one deserves happiness like she did. Was she talking about Avan being drug into that mess?  Or did I miss something? I don’t like either of the women and Gabby’s  speech pattern and lack of facial expression bugs the Hell out of me.  Plus she’s saying a whole lot of nothing. 

[Melonie77]

On 9/20/2022 at 9:42 PM, EllenB said:

I think Gabby looked gorgeous at her engagement/final rose.

I loved her dress. And I loved how Erich took the time to admire it.
Gabby's face also looked especially nice during the proposal as well as the live part 2 episode...the marionette lines by her mouth were softened and not as noticeable. I don't know if it was because the puffiness in her lips had gone down since the beginning of the season? I hope she leaves her face alone.

[Melonie77]

On 9/20/2022 at 10:02 PM, TheFinalRose said:

Who knew you had to be a monk for months before applying for the show. This is nonsense. 

This is a good point especially since you don't know whether you will end up getting on the show or not. You have to go through the application process which takes time. And Reality Steve has said they take extras as back ups...so you could be told you're going on and then never make it to the mansion the first night or the beach for BiP. I think taking extras and not using them happens even more now since COVID.

In Erich's case he never applied for the show. They recruited him.  His story about the ex girlfriend is a little less slimy knowing he did not seek out a spot on the show. I liked how Gabby scolded him for what he did to the ex.

[Back Atcha]

5 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

I don't know why Tino put up with being bullied for so long - both at the couple's-visit-house and at the live show. The way he kept going outside the house....it was like he couldn't stand her anymore yet he did not leave the property, he begged the producers to help him end it. What kind of contracts do they sign that he could not just bolt?

This is excellent, Melonie77 ... I bet there's a non-disclosure part to everything they sign--and it's pounded into their heads regularly.  We'll probably never know.  I was very surprised that Zach was allowed to confront Rachel with her Jeckyl/Hyde personality.

[Back Atcha]

Sounds like it's time to reboot the old Lifetime/Hulu series: "UNREAL"!

Shiri Appleby as Rachel Goldberg, a producer on Everlasting who is brought back to the show by executive producer Quinn despite Rachel's breakdown during the previous season. Though conflicted by how she must lie to and manipulate the contestants, Rachel is a "closer" who thinks fast on her feet and knows exactly what needs to be done to create drama on the show. Meanwhile, she is drawn back to her ex-boyfriend Jeremy and finds herself getting close to the show's suitor Adam, but she later loses relationships to both of them. Rachel is later promoted to supervising producer, which is short-lived as Coleman is hired by the network as the new showrunner.

Constance Zimmer as Quinn King, Everlasting's scheming, demanding executive producer who pushes boundaries on the show to maximize ratings. She is having an affair with Chet, but their dysfunctional relationship is strained by his marriage and their work. She later gets promoted to showrunner until Chet returns, and their conflict results in the network hiring Coleman as the show's new EP and showrunner.

[maggiemae]

I am confused how Erick was recruited....how did the show say we want that anonymous guy in NJ or where ever he is from?

[DEL901]

5 hours ago, maggiemae said:

I am confused how Erick was recruited....how did the show say we want that anonymous guy in NJ or where ever he is from?

5 hours ago, maggiemae said:

To clarify, he is from New Jersey but has lived in LA since he graduated from college. 

He may have met or crossed paths with someone who brought him to the attention of casting.  There are recruits in many Reality shows including Big Brother and Survivor.  I’m sure there is a whole CBS team that regularly scans social media for potential players.  Sometimes a contestant auditions for one show but gets offered a different one. 

[Bonfires Down]

I'm not fan of how the show is evolving. The producers have always been scheming bastards but I feel like at some point they used to know when enough was enough.

• Bringing Tino on the aftershow just to kick him while he's down. The events in the house were more than enough, there's nothing more to say but they still feel the need to watch him squirm again. I doubt Rachel was aching to see him either.
• Erich meeting Gabby before the other fantasy suites. We don't know I guess but it stinks of producers stoking up his insecurities for "drama" even at the expense of their relationship. 
• Logan storyline is trash.
• Shanae storyline is trash.
• Casting two leads without a second thought for how it would work.
• Dragging everything out forever despite not having engaging content.
• Those damn paid promotion, just kill me.

And that's on top of the already outdated and fake-ish nature of the show.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Bonfires Down

[JenE4]

11 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I hate it, but I think the show has to bend over backwards to make the leads look good or they will have trouble casting in the future.  

I’m not sure about that. Remember Juan Pablo? I think he was the first “difficult” lead to the extent that all of production hated that dude by the time the show was over, and they skewered him for it. Even he most recent season we saw the show turn on Clayton. IMO, I think because the fanbase is largely women, the show tends to take the Female Empowerment angle—even when the woman is clearly in the wrong. We’ve had a lot of similar debates on this board over the years where the more resounding opinion was that for some reason the show was villainizing a guy even though the majority of us thought the woman was in the wrong, such as Katie “gaslighting” that one poor dude by calling him a gaslighter, and similarly with Hannah Brown on her season. It almost seems like since anti-misogyny and taking down the patriarchy is like “a thing” in our society, this show doubles-down that they are pro-women. It’s just mind-boggling that they take such a hardline stance that we should always just take the woman’s side and f— that guy. But, you know what? Sometimes the woman is the asshole. Hell, sometimes (and I think this is the case here) both the woman and the man are the assholes. But, yeah, back to the point, I don’t think the show is really going to “protect” anyone. If they can exploit you, they will. You just have a better chance of getting the show’s backing for your bad behavior if you’re a woman than a man—and only if there’s the slightest chance that it can be spun as a “you go, girl” edit that I’m standing up for my sisters watching at home who have ever been treated poorly in a relationship, which, let’s face it is just about every woman. But if you’re a man, or a woman fighting with other women? Oof. Your reputation will be ruined. People will be calling you “scallop fingers” or whatever for the rest of your life. The chance of “clout” isn’t worth it, and no one should apply, IMO.

Edited September 22, 2022 by JenE4

[Sweet-tea]

23 hours ago, DEL901 said:

A psychologist once said that in some relationships, “one partner loves and the other is loved”.   Rachel needs a partner who will walk on egg shells and bend over backwards to ensure she is happy and apologize/grovel when she isn’t.   There are some men  (and women) whose love language is acts of service, who put their partner’s wants and needs before their own and that’s the kind of man she needs to be looking for, not one’s looking for a partnership of equals.  

I think she’s a narcissist. Based on my experiencing with a narc mother, any man who ends up with Rachel will be miserable. The only way to survive is blind obedience, capitulation and constant apologizing even when you’re not wrong. The guy will be emasculated and horribly unhappy. 

The only other option is to leave. It took my father over 50 years to get out, and by the time he did, he was a shell of himself. I don’t like Tino, but I’m glad he escaped. 

Aven was totally set up by the producers to redeem Rachel. She didn’t want to look like the one who was dumped. 

My eyes still hurting from looking at Kaitlyn. I looked up previous pictures of her, and she was adorable. Why on earth did she do this to herself? Thank goodness Becca still looked like herself. Stark contrast seeing her next to Kaitlyn. 

I still like Jesse as the host but he was too easy on Rachel. 

[Jax7917]

11 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I hate it, but I think the show has to bend over backwards to make the leads look good or they will have trouble casting in the future.  

I think the only lead I remember being really made to look crazy was Clare, and boy there was nothing they could do to edit out her crazy. She was perfect for reality tv but i'd be scared to be left alone in the same room as her let alone be forced to propose to her.

Oh yeah, as someone above mentioned, Juan Pablo was also a "crazy" lead. The thing with him was that he went home so early on Desiree's? season that no one even knew anything about him. They just picked him cuz he was supposedly sexy and had an accent. He was an asshole but I didn't mind it because it made for good tv. The one he picked (Nikki) was a raging bitch.

I have a good feeling about Zach as he seemed nervous which was a nice change and he seems like earlier leads. But I don't think the show can have a season like the old days where 2 people are left at the end , declare their undying love for the lead, and one gets proposed to. The show has evolved into making everything the most dramatic season ever and I don't think we've seen an old school finale in years.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Jax7917

[Ms Blue Jay]

14 hours ago, Tuneful said:

That was terrible. I think the contract must be that you see every filming through,  you do not walk out no matter what. You see or call the host or producer if you have any questions. I think Logan walked out. I didn't see Tino, a macho and partying guy who works in construction, as a journal-keeping (more like record-keeping), fragile kind of guy--it was scary to see him so beaten up last night. I agree with the idea there must be one or more legal threats or actions behind the scenes and/or an autocratic, abusive management of the show. Perhaps Gabby is not as much of a crier as we saw at times. And Rachel, as awful as she is, kept threatening to quit. To see Jesse suck up to her 100% was just sickening.  Aven is in it for exposure, he knows what a nut Rachel is.     

I totally agree that when Tino was crying, saying "Just tell her to break up with me" it was because he was not allowed to end it himself.  As soon as he walked back in and she finally said the words "This is over" he put up a pretend 10 seconds of protest (LOL) then immediately walked out.  He was on some kind of contract/promise to not end things with Rachel and it had to be shown that Rachel was dumping HIM so she could get her Girl Power Everyone Applauding moment in the studio.  Bah.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

I’m not sure about that. Remember Juan Pablo? I think he was the first “difficult” lead to the extent that all of production hated that dude by the time the show was over, and they skewered him for it. Even he most recent season we saw the show turn on Clayton. IMO, I think because the fanbase is largely women, the show tends to take the Female Empowerment angle—even when the woman is clearly in the wrong. We’ve had a lot of similar debates on this board over the years where the more resounding opinion was that for some reason the show was villainizing a guy even though the majority of us thought the woman was in the wrong, such as Katie “gaslighting” that one poor dude by calling him a gaslighter, and similarly with Hannah Brown on her season. It almost seems like since anti-misogyny and taking down the patriarchy is like “a thing” in our society, this show doubles-down that they are pro-women. It’s just mind-boggling that they take such a hardline stance that we should always just take the woman’s side and f— that guy. But, you know what? Sometimes the woman is the asshole. Hell, sometimes (and I think this is the case here) both the woman and the man are the assholes. But, yeah, back to the point, I don’t think the show is really going to “protect” anyone. If they can exploit you, they will. You just have a better chance of getting the show’s backing for your bad behavior if you’re a woman than a man—and only if there’s the slightest chance that it can be spun as a “you go, girl” edit that I’m standing up for my sisters watching at home who have ever been treated poorly in a relationship, which, let’s face it is just about every woman. But if you’re a man, or a woman fighting with other women? Oof. Your reputation will be ruined. People will be calling you “scallop fingers” or whatever for the rest of your life. The chance of “clout” isn’t worth it, and no one should apply, IMO.

So many great points, but one thing about JP…I thing Juan Pablo’s treatment was an abject less for leads.  Get with the program or get thrown to the wolves in editing. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by DEL901

[Hip-to-be-Square]

So Zach's season has already been cast and the ads for casting that are posted during the show are for future seasons? I could've applied and been cast as a cougar with a bold/twisted sense of humor! jk 😄- I don't think he could handle me anyway, so good luck to Zach in his "journey" 😉. In all seriousness though, Tino just kissed a girl once at a bar in a drunken moment, whereas he had to watch Rachel passionately tongue down dozens of guys each week in her "journey" and even slink away with another two men for fantasy suites- that's televised infidelity!  Why couldn't she be more understanding? They've known each other for only 2 MONTHS of filming- the Bachelorette engagement ring is the emotional equivalent of an elementary schooler proposing to a crush with a candy ring pop! On another note, Tino looked handsome throughout the season with styled hair and a clean-shaven look, but I'll take post-breakup Tino's appearance any day!  Tino looked incredibly HOT with his disheveled dark hair, intense looking light eyes and a five o-clock shadow when he was fighting with Rachel- damn, what a hunky slab of a man 😚💋🔥!! And I absolutely LOVED how during the fight, Tino pulled a Chris Hanson and brought out the transcripts!!!  Rachel was furious because her Disney Princess pro-victim card was being revoked and Tino was laying it ALL out- no holds barred! Go Tino- he'll be in no shortage of dates in So-Cal! That man's dance card is full!

Edited September 22, 2022 by Hip-to-be-Square

[Daisy]

You know. I watched the last bits of Claytons season and I remember feeling so bad for Rachel for what he did to her. but now with this season focusing on Rachel it kinda puts that in a different perspective, ye ken my meaning?

Like Rachel said "yes" after Clayton dropped the whole i sexed everyone up but Suzie bomb but lets work this out. And then she was still wanting to try to work it out after Clayton was like yeh but it's Suzie tho. and at the time you just had this idea it's because maybe Rachel loved Clayton that much - but then form what i've read here - maybe Rachel was really crying because she didn't win/get the engagement. because it really seemed that was what she was gunning for. Like it didnt matter who was doing it, as long it was being done.  that just kills all sympathy for her. 

This Tino guy having a book of their conversations? that's legit something i had to do for work because I was being gaslit hard.   I have to say that is the most uneasy feeling knowing you actually have to freaking write down everything that you say/they say to protect yourself/your sanity because it's so easy for people to go "yeah but no though."

(this doesn't justify the "kissing"  though. but still). 

but it was disgusting how Rachel legit just.... walked off the stage with another guy.... leaving Tino on stage like that. I could never do something that disgusting to someone publicly. (and the guy who did it should feel shame too so like you both suck). 

I did read someone's msg about love languages -I will say that is mine. I LOVE doing things for people, and putting their needs first and a lot of times it is hard to advocate for yourself and easier still to get walked on (but yet still it's the best way i know to show people how i care. it is a very tight balancing act) it really does seem that Rachel needs someone who always let her know that shes the bestest that ever bested. and that is not healthy. even with my love language that is very taxing. 

[DEL901]

Looks like Aven’s job was just to get her off stage without a melt down, IMO.  They seem to have barely talked. https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/rachel-recchia-on-whether-shell-date-aven-after-tino-split/
 

 

And a follow up on love language where it is acts of service…for this kind of relationship to work, the recipient has to be appreciative, grateful and not take advantage of giver….clearly Rachel fails by all metrics.  

Edited September 22, 2022 by DEL901

[Daisy]

47 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

And a follow up on love language where it is acts of service…for this kind of relationship to work, the recipient has to be appreciative, grateful and not take advantage of giver….clearly Rachel fails by all metrics.  

exactly. Rachel would be a very tiring friend. (and equally tiring girlfriend)

(also hi!) heeh

[DEL901]

I know there is a media thread, but because this relates to ATFR, I think it works better here.    One nugget , the breakup with Tino was August 11th, so she had been stewing for weeks and expecting….
 

 

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/rachels-biggest-post-bachelorette-revelations-about-tino-aven/what-really-happened-with-zach-and-rachel-in-the-fantasy-suites/

Edited September 22, 2022 by DEL901

[nittany cougar]

1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

I know there is a media thread, but because this relates to ATFR, I think it works better here.    One nugget , the breakup with Tino was August 11th, so she had been stewing for weeks and expecting….
 

 

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/rachels-biggest-post-bachelorette-revelations-about-tino-aven/what-really-happened-with-zach-and-rachel-in-the-fantasy-suites/

Sounds like maybe there was conflict about political views, but she's so vague that it''s hard to say.

The jeans and jacket outfit in that picture is atrocious!  It looks a size too small for her, and I don't think bare midriff and jackets go together.

Edited September 22, 2022 by nittany cougar

[Tuneful]

On 9/22/2022 at 8:22 AM, Bonfires Down said:

• Casting two leads without a second thought for how it would work.

Clearly copying this year's version of "Joe Millionaire" (two male leads). The producers and directors of that show did a far better job. There seemed to be good vibes and some dignity on it (at least to me--and hello, Audience Is King. We don't tune in to get horribly upset, depressed, and appalled nonstop by a fantasy romance show nor for bullying and sadism). Some of the cast of JM inevitably had disappointments, but these weren't dwelled upon, and I didn't see tantrums, blatant unprofessionalism, random cancellations, etc.

Bachelorette: complete chaos. My first season, and I never will watch it again--I hope you hear that, ABC. That's how bad your expensive production was. Everyone responsible should be ashamed, and that includes Jesse Palmer, you coward. 

I hope if there are any grounds for legal action, health damages, etc., that they are pursued. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Tuneful

[Tuneful]

On 9/22/2022 at 4:23 PM, nittany cougar said:

Sounds like maybe there was conflict about political views, but she's so vague that it''s hard to say.

Yep, the most I could glean is that it was religion or politics, or, I venture, Rachel getting into a huff and throwing Zach out per her usual. This was kept to "how we were in front the camera was not the same as how we were without the camera, in the suite." Then a guy shovels ego-food to the prima donna. Rinse and repeat.    

It's mentioned above Rachel would be an exhausting friend or GF. Totally agree. I'm sure Gabby and the guys have had more than enough, much more, of her. But they and especially Gabby will never get rid of her. Ratchet moaning on for hours or days about victimized she is by everyone, how everything is everyone else's fault, men never meet her standards, etc.  

Edited September 23, 2022 by Tuneful

[Melonie77]

On 9/22/2022 at 1:28 AM, maggiemae said:

I am confused how Erick was recruited....how did the show say we want that anonymous guy in NJ or where ever he is from?

On 9/22/2022 at 6:44 AM, DEL901 said:

To clarify, he is from New Jersey but has lived in LA since he graduated from college. 

He may have met or crossed paths with someone who brought him to the attention of casting.  There are recruits in many Reality shows including Big Brother and Survivor.  I’m sure there is a whole CBS team that regularly scans social media for potential players.  Sometimes a contestant auditions for one show but gets offered a different one. 

@maggiemae Yes, to clarify what I wrote earlier and add on to what @DEL901 has told us, I read that producers found Erich through his Instagram account. I don't know what caused them to zero in on him (maybe sports) but they liked what they saw and asked him to apply. 

Erich told us on the After Show that this happened around the same time he had started dating the ex-girlfriend. He also said he never would have dreamed of going on the show if he had not been approached. I believe him. He seemed uncomfortable for a while in the beginning of the season.

And I think it makes sense that he originally thought of it as more of a career/financial opportunity. I know he went to school for marketing and I think he has had good jobs but for whatever reason he lost the last one he had.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Melonie77

[Kiss my mutt]

Maybe the producers thought, hey it’s been a damn minute since we’ve had a guy on that sports a mullet.

Or sadly, because he was dealing with a terminally ill parent. 

[Melonie77]

7 hours ago, Hip-to-be-Square said:

 On another note, Tino looked handsome throughout the season with styled hair and a clean-shaven look, but I'll take post-breakup Tino's appearance any day!  Tino looked incredibly HOT with his disheveled dark hair, intense looking light eyes and a five o-clock shadow when he was fighting with Rachel- damn, what a hunky slab of a man 😚💋🔥!! And I absolutely LOVED how during the fight, Tino pulled a Chris Hanson and brought out the transcripts!!!  Rachel was furious because her Disney Princess pro-victim card was being revoked and Tino was laying it ALL out- no holds barred! Go Tino- he'll be in no shortage of dates in So-Cal! That man's dance card is full!

For those who have been admiring Tino's appearance google "tino franco long hair"!
The man once had long hair down past his shoulders. He looks good but different.😉

[DEL901]

3 minutes ago, Melonie77 said:

For those who have been admiring Tino's appearance google "tino franco long hair"!
The man once had long hair down past his shoulders. He looks good but different.😉

Wow, he looks totally different…and far happier than on most of the show. 

[Melonie77]

10 hours ago, JenE4 said:

I’m not sure about that. Remember Juan Pablo? I think he was the first “difficult” lead to the extent that all of production hated that dude by the time the show was over, and they skewered him for it. 

I was thinking of Juan Pablo last night as someone the producers were not afraid to hide their anger over. I remember being shocked how Chris behaved with him on the After but I thought Juan Pablo deserved it. He refused to answer Chris' questions.

I think he was a real player who slept with a lot of the women.
I remember how they hated when he kept saying "it's okay. it's okay!"🤣
He was a great looking guy but a real jerk.

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I totally agree that when Tino was crying, saying "Just tell her to break up with me" it was because he was not allowed to end it himself.  As soon as he walked back in and she finally said the words "This is over" he put up a pretend 10 seconds of protest (LOL) then immediately walked out.  He was on some kind of contract/promise to not end things with Rachel and it had to be shown that Rachel was dumping HIM so she could get her Girl Power Everyone Applauding moment in the studio.  Bah.

In dying to know who he caller on his cell phone and lol when she ran out and scolded him. 
tino i hope you are like brad after deanna, watching the season and popping a beer!!!

[adhoc]

Here are my opinions. Your mileage may vary.

1. I haven't watched the past few seasons of this show, other than in a couple of cases, like Tuesday, I did watch the final episode. Since that one ep is the only frame of reference I have, I just want to say that the show has really gone down the tubes! For example, Rachel/Tino - instead of giving us the happy ending and then presenting the surprise twist, as Production used to do, this time they kept showing a disgruntled Rachel and her parents (in an inset box) throughout Rachel's part of the pre-filmed episode. So we already knew it wasn't going to be a happy ending.

Why did they spoil their own show that way?

2. I did not like either Rachel or Tino, just from this one episode. Their whole convo focused a lot on some event or discussion that we viewers were not allowed to know about, so it made no sense. An argument where viewers can't even take sides, because we don't really know what all happened. 

But hey, if you're not right for each other, you're not right for each other. So be it. Now wrap it up. The show should not have let them keep going on and on about it. It was uncomfortable and boring.

3. I did enjoy the Gabby/Erich ending. Though they did not get as much time as I thought they should get.

4. Finally, I'm shaking my head at all those people on that other forum who think the ultimate "worst, most horrible" thing is that the show did not highlight what a racist Erich is and then cancel him. RACIST, I TELLS YA!

Dudes, Erich did an insensitive, ill-considered thing when he was in high school. Oh no! Teen exercises poor judgment! Stop the presses!

That does not mean he's a racist. (Now, if he did that same thing at age 25, I'd be concerned.)

Cognitive maturity--the ability to analyze a situation, a choice, or an idea in a mature manner before responding or executing, instead of just going off half-cocked or impulsively and then regretting it--doesn't really finish developing until about age 25.

This is why so many of us, as we approach age 30, start to look back things we said or did during our high school and college years and say "What was I thinking?  Most of us can think of things we said or did, during our school years, that we wish we could take back.

I could not care less about the poor choice Erich made in high school. I care more about whether he has an actual job or job prospect now.  That, for me, would be a deal breaker in a relationship.

Edited September 22, 2022 by adhoc

[nlkm9]

13 minutes ago, adhoc said:

Here are my opinions. Your mileage may vary.

1. I haven't watched the past few seasons of this show, other than in a couple of cases, like Tuesday, I did watch the final episode. Since that one ep is the only frame of reference I have, I just want to say that the show has really gone down the tubes! For example, Rachel/Tino - instead of giving us the happy ending and then presenting the surprise twist, as Production used to do, this time they kept showing a disgruntled Rachel and her parents (in an inset box) throughout Rachel's part of the pre-filmed episode. So we already knew it wasn't going to be a happy ending.

Why did they spoil their own show that way?

2. I did not like either Rachel or Tino, just from this one episode. Their whole convo focused a lot on some event or discussion that we viewers were not allowed to know about, so it made no sense. An argument where viewers can't even take sides, because we don't really know what all happened. 

But hey, if you're not right for each other, you're not right for each other. So be it. Now wrap it up. The show should not have let them keep going on and on about it. It was uncomfortable and boring.

3. I did enjoy the Gabby/Erich ending. Though they did not get as much time as I thought they should get.

4. Finally, I'm shaking my head at all those people on that other forum who think the ultimate "worst, most horrible" thing is that the show did not highlight what a racist Erich is and then cancel him. RACIST, I TELLS YA!

Dudes, Erich did an insensitive, ill-considered thing when he was in high school. Oh no! Teen exercises poor judgment! Stop the presses!

That does not mean he's a racist. (Now, if he did that same thing at age 25, I'd be concerned.)

Cognitive maturity--the ability to analyze a situation, a choice, or an idea in a mature manner before responding or executing, instead of just going off half-cocked or impulsively and then regretting it--doesn't really finish developing until about age 25.

This is why so many of us, as we approach age 30, start to look back things we said or did during our high school and college years and say "What was I thinking?  Most of us can think of things we said or did, during our school years, that we wish we could take back.

I could not care less about the poor choice Erich made in high school. I care more about whether he has an actual job or job prospect now.  That, for me, would be a deal breaker in a relationship.

100% agree. And enough with the exes and their revenge and their texts and screenshots. Its tiresome. 
 

[debbie311]

Remember back in the very early days of The Bachelor/Bachelorette? There was not nearly as much drama. The guy/girl meets a lot of different guys/girls, they go on some individual and group dates, at the end someone is chosen and someone is sent home. Done. 

Now the drama starts with episode one. This season was drama on steroids.  I used to enjoy watching the show, it was fun and kind of made you feel good when they found "true love." (Even though it didn't always last.) Now the show is cringe-worthy. I wonder if they are going to have to find something to keep raising the drama bar.

Jesse Palmer totally bugged.  All the "what you will see tonight will change your life" "this will be hard to watch" and "you might need a glass of wine for what's coming up."  Please.

Lastly, what the hell was Gabby wearing?

I miss the old days.

[tinkerbell]

Tino with long hair. Take a look

[adhoc]

Quote

Lastly, what the hell was Gabby wearing?

I just assumed that S&M wear was a thing these days...  But didn't Gabby at one point say something about being on Dancing with the Stars while pointing to her outfit? So then I thought it had to do with DwtS.

I loved the white dress with flowers that Gabby wore for the proposal scene

[chocolatine]

On 9/21/2022 at 2:31 PM, Jaundiced Eye said:

I thought I read something once that the Bachelor/Bachelorette franchise conducts psych screenings on cast members before they're hired. Did I just imagine that? There is no way someone with Rachel's apparent psychopathologies could have slipped through. That's the only conceivable grounds for a lawsuit that I can imagine: if the show knowingly allowed a disturbed individual to participate, and as a lead no less!

I've always thought the psych screenings are done in order to bring in the most dramatic and unhinged contestants, not to eliminate them. If someone is too self-possessed and not easily rattled, they're not "good TV."

I'm sure Aven was paid by the producers to ask Rachel out so that she wouldn't look like a complete loser compared to Gabby. 

[Hip-to-be-Square]

7 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

For those who have been admiring Tino's appearance google "tino franco long hair"!
The man once had long hair down past his shoulders. He looks good but different.😉

 HOT 😄!!! Thank you!  What a hunky man! His wild hair reminds me of Tarzan ☺️

Edited September 23, 2022 by Hip-to-be-Square

[Melonie77]

8 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

100% agree. And enough with the exes and their revenge and their texts and screenshots. Its tiresome. 
 

I don't have any problem with exes coming forward if they have a serious issue with a cast member. It's their story and their decision whether to share it or not. If they have been hurt by someone they now see getting a fabulous edit on the Bachelor I don't blame them for telling what experience they may have had with the same dude. And I don't think they should be shamed for it.

Their was another story about a bachelor who I believe was from this season that Reality Steve was investigating. He had been talking to the girl and she was going to tell the story but then I guess she lost her nerve and ghosted Steve. He made it sound like the undisclosed story was pretty bad - enough that he felt compelled to report it and the guy to the producers at The Bachelor/ette. Then I read elsewhere that it was allegedly about sexual abuse.

There was that other story in the news recently about a previous bachelor using his status to lure girls into a false sense of security. 

Too often women stay silent.

[nlkm9]

4 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

I don't have any problem with exes coming forward if they have a serious issue with a cast member. It's their story and their decision whether to share it or not. If they have been hurt by someone they now see getting a fabulous edit on the Bachelor I don't blame them for telling what experience they may have had with the same dude. And I don't think they should be shamed for it.

Their was another story about a bachelor who I believe was from this season that Reality Steve was investigating. He had been talking to the girl and she was going to tell the story but then I guess she lost her nerve and ghosted Steve. He made it sound like the undisclosed story was pretty bad - enough that he felt compelled to report it and the guy to the producers at The Bachelor/ette. Then I read elsewhere that it was allegedly about sexual abuse.

There was that other story in the news recently about a previous bachelor using his status to lure girls into a false sense of security. 

Too often women stay silent.

We can agree to disagree on this one . Obviously if someone was verbally or physically abused that is extreme and should never ever be tolerated. 
at the same time, no one should expect to not date before being cast . Yes some of these guys are jerks and i have dated them!

but to come out just ruin them and /or gain a little fame seems like a very sad thing to do.

and when they start sharing personal text messages i think its embarassing for both of them.

I inagine if erich said “ im sorry im goinf on the bachlorette so i cant see you anymore , he would have been slammed as the guy who dumped his gf to go on the show. Its a no win situation, and it seems spiteful more than anything.

but i respect your opinion !!!

[sauce62]

I usually prefer short hair on a man, but damn he looks good with it long. Kinder, somehow. Someone with his looks clearly did not come on the show for "love" though, it's all about that exposure!

[LuvMyShows]

On 9/20/2022 at 11:19 PM, tennisgurl said:

Kind of a cute idea, but maybe not great to waste first impression rose on someone who Zach didn’t even choose. It’s not a great…first impression?

Given that they made a point of calling it something like, "America's First Impression Rose," I think he will still get his own on the first night.

On 9/21/2022 at 5:13 AM, LakeGal said:

Rachel's dad sure had a tight grip on her mom.  Every time the camera showed them her dad was squeezing her tighter.  Rachel's mom looked uncomfortable at times with how she had to sit.

What bothered me was that in the intros at the beginning, Jesse said that we have Rachel's dad Big Tony with us, and then never mentioned her mom.

23 hours ago, Alexander Pope said:

Speaking of creepy patriarchs, I found the whole--Sean, please advise Zach who looks up to you while keeping your arm around your wife and mother of your three children in the smuggest way possible really annoying.  I don't think Katherine would have said a word had Jesse not asked her to speak.  He is "Bachelor Royalty"--all bow down!! 

Don't forget Jesse actually called him "The Great Sean Lowe".  Barf...make that double barf.

20 hours ago, SassyCat said:

You can be damn sure too, that she is seething with jealousy at Gabbys good fortune of having a real, successful engagement and the bonus of Dancing with the Stars to advance her time in the spotlight. Just where Rachael always wanted to be, shining above all other humanity. 

I hate to defend Rachel, but I saw a quote from some executive from the parent company of DWTS (sorry, forget all the exact details), but he said that they were at dinner with Rachel (they didn't say why) and she is the one who suggested Gabby for DWTS. That would be a weird thing for him to make up, so maybe it's actually true.

[ljenkins782]

On 9/21/2022 at 8:09 AM, Jillibean said:

Oy, Rachel. That's all I have on that one.

Tino's hair looked ridiculous and he seemed a bit less than sober to me during the secret weekend visit disaster.

Yeah, I couldn't decide if I thought Tino was going for a deliberately mussed look to try to appear like he was distraught or if he was just hung over/still drunk. He's obviously aware of how a bad edit can bleed into your real life and he was trying to step out of the whole thing as gracefully as possible, but the show took a sledgehammer to that plan. 

I don't even like Tino, but I still think it was ludicrous to bring him there in person with the "Boo now" flashing signs for the audience to help Rachel browbeat him some more. There was literally nothing to be done about it, short of building a time machine and going back to before he kissed the girl. But Rachel wanted her pound of flesh so she just kept digging. Tino so clearly just wanted to be done with the whole thing before they even got to the studio part and I felt bad for him with that stupid Aven stunt when Jesse turned to crow about Aven spiriting Rachel away and Tino was just like "can I go now?"

Quote

eh, they've done stuff like this before.. I think with Tyler Cameron coming back for Hannah after the Jed stuff. I think the producers want to show that there's some happy ending for the lead so they pay the runner up to come back to ask the lead to "catch up" but pretty sure after the episode is over, they never contact each other again.

Yeah, this was 100% designed to save show face after Rachel's romance crashed and burned so hard, just like with Hannah. Jesse was super annoying with his faux surprise and "what is even happening right now?" 

As if nobody remembers that Rachel could have dated Aven and possibly been quite happy doing so, but she didn't want to "settle" for less than a proposal so she unceremoniously ditched Aven. How'd that work out for you, Rach?

Quote

Thank you! It it so icky the way Big Tony ALWAYS has his arm around his wife, stroking her arm. I am sure this will be an unpopular opinion, that most will think it is "sweet" that he still does this after decades together, but I find it smarmy and cloying and sort if controlling and proprietary. Rachel's mom seems to shrink into her seat

Nope, I'm right there with you. It's usually a certain type of man who always has to be touching or holding onto his wife in public and it's usually a power move by a controlling guy.

But what annoyed me the most is that in the number of times Jesse went to the "big Tony" well, he never once mentioned Rachel's mom. Who was sitting RIGHT THERE under Big Tony's arm. I was also way over the cuts to Grandpa John by the end and honestly, I think Grandpa John was a little over it as well. This show can beat a dead horse like no other.

Quote

Those text messages seem like a whole not of nothing. When I saw them a few days ago, my immediate thought was that he had told Gabby, hence the last text after filming that clearly struck me as the sort of apology you make after a woman you're truly infatuated with informs you that you behaved badly and owe someone an apology. There was nothing about it that suggested he was trying to get back together or gauging her interest in doing so. So his explanation that he wanted to end things and saw this as a convenient way and that he had already told Gabby about it rang true to me. 

It struck me as very odd that no one mentioned the death of Erich's father, which was surely a more emotional and difficult thing to deal with as a long distance couple than the text message scandal. 

Yeah, the "scandal" seemed like kind of typical "not that into you, but eh, you're here" dating, like it was a relationship with limited future potential so he kind of half-assed the ending.

I did like that Gabby pointed out that he was an asshole to this girl and that Erich also admitted that he didn't handle things well. Too many girls find it flattering when a guy is an asshole to another  woman as long as they're the chosen girl, so I liked that they both stated flat out that Erich didn't handle that well.

It is indeed very odd that they didn't mention Erich's father's passing. And it's extra sad that the social media onslaught that accompanies this show was probably happening in tandem with his dad passing and the emotions of that. Puts the Instagram drama into perspective a bit. 

In the end, I think Gabby acquitted herself pretty well and got the happy ending she deserved and Rachel showed herself to be kind of awful and fittingly got the shit ending that her behavior deserved (Aven's producer-induced nonsense aside).

As for bachelor Zach...oof. I sure hope he loosens up a whole, whole bunch before filming because that was rough. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who can juggle multiple relationships, he seems like the type to throw himself whole hog into whoever he's with, possibly to the point of mirroring their personality/likes and dislikes. Much harder to do that with multiple people.

[Jeanne222]

I noticed Kaitlyn’s face lift is calming down. Last time she was on the show she looked terrible!

[nlkm9]

59 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I noticed Kaitlyn’s face lift is calming down. Last time she was on the show she looked terrible!

im trying to avoid saying anything but I ncant help myself. Kaitlyn in my opinion has disfigured herself and shes up there with khloe kardashian (who I have only seen on commericals) and bachlorette Jillian and the very first winner of bachelor Amanda stanton as unrecognizeable. very sad.

[tinkerbell]

I find it interesting that the studio audience seemed to be (or was coached to be) 100% in Rachel's corner. Yet everyone, I think, posting here is of the opinion that Rachel is the bad guy here. Not that Tino is blameless, just that Rachel was in  the wrong as well.

I read an interview where she said she expected Tino would be begging her to take him back after he confessed to cheating. It made me wonder if that would have changed things - fit her fairy tale. He falters, begs for forgiveness,  she reluctantly takes him back, all is well, but she now has the upper hand. The entire season, she has come across as miss high and mighty who must be worshipped. 

Sorry, I keep trying to link the article but it won't work. It's an interview with US magazine

Edited September 23, 2022 by tinkerbell