S06.E12: Waterworks

[Lone Wolf]

54 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

Did Kim actually implicate Jimmy in HER confession? I'm sure he was implied but I wonder if she specifically mention Jimmy McGill/Saul by name and threw him under the bus? Maybe I missed it last night...doing a rewatch this evening 

Pretty sure I saw his name in the affadavit.

Not a lot to add (this forum is like This Is Us was - if you don't get your licks in the night the show airs, everyone else says what you were going to say).

That said, I think Jeff freaked out under the pressure and had an accident (vs. crashing intentionally), it's jarring that Jesse has aged so much (but I guess there's nothing to be done about it), and Saul is either going to be arrested or die next week (it'll be a shame regardless, but in Gilligan's world the antihero gets what's coming to him).

And FTR, I'm a Miracle "Hwip" guy because for as infrequently as I make anything requiring mayo, who needs the extra fat and calories.  And to anyone marveling that this is a subtopic of discussion, you should have seen the tangents we wandered off on in The Middle forum.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Lone Wolf

[Colorado David]

21 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

There are plenty of low rent foods that I do enjoy (but feel guilty about),  lol. But I do adore Frasier and Niles! 🙂 You got me.

ditto.  but on cooking shows, i never see a requested miracle whip needed to be added. i see a mayo recipe sometimes needed.  i don't know if MW is recognized as an ingredient, while mayo many times.

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh yeah, Marian for the win! What a great episode, possibly one of the best episodes in the shows entire impressive run of amazing television. What a poetic way to bring down Saul, after years making his bread and butter working with elderly people struggling with technology, he is busted by an elderly lady using technology. I knew they wouldn't use Carol Burnett in such a minor role, that last scene was an absolute killer. One of Saul's biggest flaws has always been that he underestimates people and always thinks he's the smartest person in the room, and now he's been found out by a lady he clearly just saw as an easy mark who was much more perceptive than he gave her credit for. The old trip and fall gag ended up leading to his fall in the end, via Life Alert, its just so perfect. 

I am totally awed at the brilliance of Vince Gilligan. This was a beautiful and heartbreaking episode.

I am usually good at figuring things out. Mystery books bore me because I usually can figure out the killer.

I would never guess in a million years that Jimmy/Saul/Gene would be taken down by Carrol Burnette via Life Alert necklace.

It was such a fitting end to the infantilizing of women of a certain age (Jimmy "Who's my favorite gal" Lady, "Oh, Jimmy...giggle giggle") and all Saul's cheesy stupid commercials. For those of you that are too young- google (since there is no more Ask Jeeves) "I've fallen and I can't get up".

Kim is living a good life that many people would envy. However, we know this is not the life she ever wanted and she truly did it to herself ( like all the other brilliantly tragic characters in Gilliganverse).

It is sort of like how Walt Jr. idolized his father for being a high school teacher but that would never be enough for Walt.

[PeterPirate]

21 hours ago, Penman61 said:

HE WAS ABOUT TO BRAIN A TERMINAL CANCER PATIENT WITH HIS DEAD DOG RUSTY’S ASHES!

I don’t know what to tell you people. Jimmy is lost.

Well, we will never know if Jimmy would have actually struck Cancer Guy.  

As far as "you people" goes, I seem to be the only person here looking for Jimmy to find himself.  He will just have to go to prison voluntarily in the process.  

[carrps]

5 hours ago, luna1122 said:

On Talking Saul, Vince Gilligan said that was his wife Holly sitting next to Kim on the shuttle, who reached out a hand to her. 

Well, his "sweetie." I don't believe they're married.

5 hours ago, GustavMahler said:

Hellmans is very good, slightly tarter than Dukes and good for sandwiches. Dukes has a very good egg based flavor and is good for salads like tuna, chicken and Shrimp .

Thanks! I hate Miracle Whip, so we always get Best Foods (Hellman's). My sister just saw a kid stocking an entire display of Duke's at the market this morning, and this was the first time she'd ever seen it. I don't think it was available on the west coast before. I'll have to try it with your description in mind. We use mayo in sandwiches 90% of the time, so next time I make tuna salad or potato salad, I'll try Duke's.

[Razzberry]

[Cosmocrush]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh yeah, Marian for the win! What a great episode, possibly one of the best episodes in the shows entire impressive run of amazing television. What a poetic way to bring down Saul, after years making his bread and butter working with elderly people struggling with technology, he is busted by an elderly lady using technology. I knew they wouldn't use Carol Burnett in such a minor role, that last scene was an absolute killer. One of Saul's biggest flaws has always been that he underestimates people and always thinks he's the smartest person in the room, and now he's been found out by a lady he clearly just saw as an easy mark who was much more perceptive than he gave her credit for. The old trip and fall gag ended up leading to his fall in the end, via Life Alert, its just so perfect. 

We finally check in with Kim, who's Omaha is Florida. Her life isn't horrible, especially considering what she got away with, but its a bleak, meaningless existence of wasted potential and miracle whip, spending her days with a boring boyfriend, a gaggle of Karen's, and no ponytail of power. Even worse, she knows that this is a purgatory of her own making, that she threw away her whole life and everything she loved that gave her existence meaning, all for a stupid thrill that got an innocent man killed, which is clearly still eating away at her. So many great acting moments from Rhea Seehorn, although my favorites were probably Kim looking around the three ringed circus of Saul Goodman's office in despair at what Jimmy has become, and then when Cheryl read her for filth after reading her confession. Howard's actual death may have been quick, but he absolutely suffered before he died, and that was all on Kim and Jimmy. They didn't mean for him to actually die, but they absolutely did mean for him to hurt.

I certainly never expected to see Kim and Jesse sharing a smoke together, despite Aaron Paul being clearly much older than he was during Breaking Bad (although they did an admirable job at hiding it through his hoodie and dark lighting) he really falls right back into playing Jesse like he was in Breaking Bad yesterday. Kim gets to hear what people think about Saul now, and its nothing she's happy about. He's not a criminal lawyer like he was before, he's a criminal lawyer. 

Waterworks ended up having so many meanings. Its obviously a reference to the place where Kim works now, but also both Kim and Saul trying not to break down crying over the messes they have found themselves in, the rain pouring down as Kim and Jesse talk about Saul, and the way that everything is crashing down around Saul in his Gene life, as everything comes down on top of him like rain.

WelI said (I love ponytail of power).  I wish I could applaud this 100 times! 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Cosmocrush

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, carrps said:

next time I make tuna salad or potato salad, I'll try Duke's.

Mr. Duke should try making a Crystal Mayo flavour to boost distribution...

[SoTheresThat]

Maybe since Jeff is the one who recognized Saul at the mall, he may have mentioned the encounter to Marion.  So it's possible she had an inkling about his identity, but it was his ready knowledge of bail procedures in Albuquerque that make it click with her. 

[qtpye]

6 minutes ago, paigow said:

Mr. Duke should try making a Crystal Mayo flavour to boost distribution...

Maybe name the flavor Blue Sky?

[EtheltoTillie]

12 minutes ago, SoTheresThat said:

Maybe since Jeff is the one who recognized Saul at the mall, he may have mentioned the encounter to Marion.  So it's possible she had an inkling about his identity, but it was his ready knowledge of bail procedures in Albuquerque that make it click with her. 

Wasn't Burnett amazing--how you just read that in her eyes. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, SimplexFish said:

Did Kim actually implicate Jimmy in HER confession? I'm sure he was implied but I wonder if she specifically mention Jimmy McGill/Saul by name and threw him under the bus? Maybe I missed it last night...doing a rewatch this evening 

Definitely. She was describing their whole scam. She didn't do it alone and couldn't pretend to have. Jimmy gave her the okay to do that when he said they could only hang him once.

[ShadowFacts]

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Regarding legal consequences - leaving aside the statute of limitations, Kim could easily face charges for actively conspiring to cover up a murder.

I think her affidavit establishes that she absolutely obstructed justice. No other corroboration needed -- she and Jimmy were interviewed by police immediately after Howard's murder. Mike told Gus they were cool.  I think this was a very significant offense inasmuch as law enforcement could have been onto Fring et al much earlier. 

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

Pretty sure I saw his name in the affadavit.

Yep. "Jimmy and I began a long-term, concerted effort to impeach the character of Howard Hamlin."

And Gene did give her explicit permission to do so: "You don't have to hold back on my account. They can only hang me once!" Meaning he's already on the hook for so many crimes that adding what he and Kim did to the pile won't make a difference.

Which resonates in a really interesting way with this viewer's reading of Kim's storyline on Reddit:

Quote

I think one of the most unique post-ABQ-Kim traits we're seeing in this episode is that Kim no longer makes decisions -- even small ones. She lets Yup decide whether or not Miracle Whip is close enough to mayonnaise, she has no opinion (let alone a decisive one) about the drugs/jail discussion, and she doesn't even pick vanilla or strawberry.

I'm guessing the last time she let herself be in charge of anything was being the decision maker in the Howard scam. For six years she's been terrified to be a leader in any way.

How sad, then, that when she finally makes a life-changing decision, flying back to Albuquerque to take responsibility for her greatest mistake, she discovers that Gene's right, and it doesn't really make a difference to anyone. What a contrast with the Kim we see in the flashback with Jesse, who could've changed the entire course of the Breaking Bad universe with the choices she made.

Kim's storyline, in a way, climaxes the same way Gene's does: with the realization that the mask she put on to escape from her pain has become who she actually is. Just as Gene is now the uncaring con man that old people were wrong to trust, Kim is the unimportant women who can't decide anything of consequence.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Dev F

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

I get kind of surprised by the negative reactions to Cheryl, based on the little we've seen of her. She didn't want to be married to Howard any longer ( based on Howard's potential for being an A-hole, not a terribly shocking or irrational turn of events), but that doesn't mean she had no regard for him any longer. or that his death hasn't been terribly traumatic for her. Marriages can be incredibly complicated.

Not only that, but without a body Howard is probably not yet declared legally dead. That leaves all sorts of things in limbo, insurance, government benefits, etc. Kim could have come to her confession moment a few years ago, her possible desire to protect Jimmy notwithstanding.  Cheryl was an innocent party in this. 

[PeterPirate]

20 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Kim's storyline, in a way, climaxes the same way Gene's does: with the realization that the mask she put on to escape from her pain has become who she actually is. Just as Gene is now the uncaring con man that old people were wrong to trust, Kim is the inconsequential women who can't decide anything of consequence.

So true.  While I was very gratified to see Kim file her affidavit, I don't consider her to be redeemed.  I think doing a few years in prison, offering free legal help to her fellow inmates, can do that. 

Makes me think of this line from The Shawshank Redemption: "Andy Dufresne, who crawled through a river of shit and came out clean on the other side."  Kim still has a fair amount of crawling to do, and it's through a river of shit she helped create.  

[Adiba]

Great episode. It was worth the previous two episodes’ tediousness, ymmv.

When Kim broke down on the shuttle bus in spurts at first and then let the floodgates open— perfect, imo. Does anyone else think this was her “Jesse” ending, or will we see Kim again?

Love Carol Burnett and that her talents weren’t wasted in the show. Also love that her character is the one that exposes Gene. Serves the douche right.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Adiba

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

I seem to be the only person here looking for Jimmy to find himself.

I want Jimmy to find himself.

I want Jimmy to find himself in prison or a cemetery.

[SimplexFish]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Mr. Duke should try making a Crystal Mayo flavour to boost distribution...

Blue mayo would never sell...LOL 

[PeterPirate]

11 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

I seem to be the only person here looking for Jimmy to find himself.  

I want Jimmy to find himself.

I want Jimmy to find himself in prison or a cemetery.

Hmm, yes.  I should clarify my post.  I mean that Jimmy can still find that "good heart" which is buried deep beneath the wreckage of the personas of Saul Goodman and Gene Takavic.  

And he can do that by turning himself in, voluntarily.  He won't do that because he is repentant.  But he might do it because he loves Kim.  This is how I want the show to end. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by PeterPirate

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Hmm, yes.  I should clarify my post.  I mean that Jimmy can still find that "good heart" which is buried deep beneath the wreckage of the personas of Saul Goodman and Gene Takavic.  

I am. It doesn't do anything for me whether he dies or turns himself in or goes to jail--I trust the show to write what they think is best plotwise. But obviously the thing that has to happen is for Jimmy to run out of room to run away from himself. 

[ShadowFacts]

3 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

I want Jimmy to find himself.

I want Jimmy to find himself in prison or a cemetery.

The time for finding himself was after Howard was murdered in front of him. Now he can do his reflections in a cell. He's proven himself recently to be too dangerous to be out amongst the general public. He's a human wrecking ball.

[peeayebee]

3 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

My head tells me I should take this to Small Talk, but my heart feels it relates to the episode.  I think Duke's is a southern thing.  I don't remember ever seeing it until I moved one state farther south.  

I live near Denver, and I just checked one of our local grocery stores online. They have Duke's. I'm definitely buying a jar/bottle. I'll do a taste test.

I was wondering about Ask Jeeves. Way back when I used it as my search engine until I heard about this funny sounding one called... Google, was it? Anyway, I just checked Wikipedia:

Quote

In late 2010, facing insurmountable competition from more popular search engines like Google, the company outsourced its web search technology and returned to its roots as a question and answer site.

"Waterworks" takes place in December 2010, so it's strange that Marion would call the search engine Ask Jeeves since by that time it was called just Ask.com. And it wasn't really a search engine then anyway.

[scenario]

3 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I live near Denver, and I just checked one of our local grocery stores online. They have Duke's. I'm definitely buying a jar/bottle. I'll do a taste test.

I was wondering about Ask Jeeves. Way back when I used it as my search engine until I heard about this funny sounding one called... Google, was it? Anyway, I just checked Wikipedia:

"Waterworks" takes place in December 2010, so it's strange that Marion would call the search engine Ask Jeeves since by that time it was called just Ask.com. And it wasn't really a search engine then anyway.

They probably used Ask Jeeves because it doesn't exist anymore. They didn't want to promote an existing brand unlike they did with miracle whip. 

[Cosmocrush]

5 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

A moment that really hit, imo, was when Kim entered the justice building, she watched a young and coming female lawyer desperately trying to get her woeful client to be as presentable as can be managed in an incredibly small amount of time.  

That really hit me too.  What Kim was, what she could have been, all of it gone for good.  

[Simon Boccanegra]

According to a new addition to the Breaking Bad Wiki, "Emilio's actor John Koyama has the most time between appearances in the Breaking Bad universe, with fourteen years spanning his last Breaking Bad and first Better Call Saul episodes."

For anyone who hasn't seen the first season of Breaking Bad in a while,

Spoiler

Emilio has the distinction of being the first to die at Walter White's hands (gas poisoning while trapped in the RV). Jesse puts the body in his own bathtub, rather than the specified plastic container, with visually unforgettable results.

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Second that this is the saddest show on TV, probably because it started out with the funny guy in Breaking Bad (and Mr. Show!)

And Curb Your Enthusiasm's Porno Gil, who entertained his dinner guests with "the Tabasco sauce story." (McKean was on that show too, later, playing a pompous hack TV director with a special-needs son.)

[peeayebee]

58 minutes ago, scenario said:

They probably used Ask Jeeves because it doesn't exist anymore. They didn't want to promote an existing brand unlike they did with miracle whip. 

I figure they used Ask Jeeves because that's the jokey thing an old person would use instead of Google. Either that or AltaVista. I think either the writers didn't do their homework or they figured it really didn't matter. And it doesn't.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, SoTheresThat said:

Maybe since Jeff is the one who recognized Saul at the mall, he may have mentioned the encounter to Marion.  So it's possible she had an inkling about his identity, but it was his ready knowledge of bail procedures in Albuquerque that make it click with her. 

I doubt that, but if Gene were thinking straight, he could have told Marion that if she ratted him out, he would take Jeff down with him.  These were not public nuisance crimes; Jeff would be facing serious jail time, and I doubt Marion wants that.

Edited August 10, 2022 by ItCouldBeWorse

[30 Helens]

I apologize if this has been mentioned before, but in the shot where Gene was standing over Carol Burnett, menacing her, I was struck for the first time by how much he looks like Walt. I think it was the desperate, bitter expression that drove it home.

But the bald head, the moustache, the glasses… this can’t have been a stylistic coincidence.

[Barbarblacksheep]

6 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

A moment that really hit, imo, was when Kim entered the justice building, she watched a young and coming female lawyer desperately trying to get her woeful client to be as presentable as can be managed in an incredibly small amount of time.  

Did you notice that the young female lawyer had a ponytail? Almost identical to Kim's old Cindy Brady style, too.

I just checked to see if Life Alert still exists. It does. They have a Twitter presence, but it consists solely of "testimonials". I would love to see one from "Marion", but something tells me Life Alert would not be amused and/or has already deleted a few attempts. Too bad, I think it would be great marketing (OTOH, not sure how many seniors would get the joke...although I'm really scarily close to that demographic myself).

[Scout Finch]

I still see the "I've fallen and I can't get up" commercials late at night on channels like Comet and Antenna that have old TV shows.

[Dobian]

On 8/8/2022 at 7:03 PM, Penman61 said:

All the naysayers (including me) gotta eat some crow:

”Rhea Seehorn isn’t much of an actress.”

I can say that I have enjoyed Seehorn’s acting on this show from the very beginning.  She can convey more meaning in a simple grunt or shifting of her eyes than a lot of actors do with a whole range of histrionics.

[millennium]

Kudos to everyone who predicted Marion and her computer would be Gene's undoing.   The way she put it all together was a little dubious IMO, but ...

Gene seemed on the brink of murder twice in this episode.   Both times it seemed plausible that he might do it to save his own bacon.

I used to do the same kind of business copywriting Kim was doing at the plumbing supply company.   And I suspect someone on the writing staff at BCS did too at some point.   It is the very definition of tedium and monotony.   She may as well be in jail.

The Aaron Paul cameo felt gratuitous.

I was surprised by what a complete dick Saul was to Kim when signing the divorce papers, more so when he pulled the same thing in his phone call to her six years later as Gene.   There's nothing left of who he used to be.

I find myself hoping he is caught and prosecuted.   Somebody has to go down for Breaking Bad.

Edited August 10, 2022 by millennium

[PeterPirate]

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I am. It doesn't do anything for me whether he dies or turns himself in or goes to jail--I trust the show to write what they think is best plotwise. But obviously the thing that has to happen is for Jimmy to run out of room to run away from himself. 

The trailer for the felina suggests Jimmy is going to make it to Mexico.  

Maybe a new cartel will recognize him and consider him a valuable asset.  Or maybe a former member of the Salamanca cartel will take him down.   Who knows, maybe the final shot of the Gilliverse will be Saul Goodman's head on a tortoise.  

Edited August 10, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Bannon]

What I really appreciate about this plotting is that, unlike so much television and movie writing, it is so character driven. Stuff happens not randomly, or because it provides some action that's interesting for the audience to look at, but because the inner lives of the characters, on display for many years now, compels them to create the world the audience observes. That's why I think the two previous Gene-centric episodes were anything but tedious. They show us how Gene's thinking leads to Kim being compelled to re-engage with a life she's attempted to bury, and how Kim's reaction to Gene further drives Gene down the path of the pathologies he's displayed as Jimmy, then Saul, since season one. Really great stuff.

[PeterPirate]

Courtney posted this musical tribute to the episode.

One of the commenters pointed out that Gene has a stash of diamonds and his drink of choice is a Rusty Nail.  

Edited August 10, 2022 by PeterPirate

[DrSparkles]

10 hours ago, Adiba said:

Great episode. It was worth the previous two episodes’ tediousness, ymmv.

When Kim broke down on the shuttle bus in spurts at first and then let the floodgates open— perfect, imo. Does anyone else think this was her “Jesse” ending, or will we see Kim again?

Love Carol Burnett and that her talents weren’t wasted in the show. Also love that her character is the one that exposes Gene. Serves the douche right.

I thought this was the end of Kim’s story (until I read about the previews here).

Duke’s is nasty.

[Chaos Theory]

Kim definitely implicated Jimmy.  There was no way around it if she wanted to be truthful and at that point she did.  What Kim didn’t do was say why she finally confessed after 6 years.    What Kim didnt do was say that she heard from Jimmy and knew he was alive and likely knew where he was.  
 

I have never been a big fan of killing off the dark protagonist in the last episode.  It is one of my few gripes about BB.  I thought Walt should actually have to pay for his actions.  That isn’t paying.   I would hate it if Jimmy gets the same ending.  I would prefer if he either ends up in jail or is forced to run into yet another half Gene life and and start the routine over again.  Because that is who he is.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[nodorothyparker]

On 8/10/2022 at 6:01 AM, Bannon said:

That's why I think the two previous Gene-centric episodes were anything but tedious. They show us how Gene's thinking leads to Kim being compelled to re-engage with a life she's attempted to bury, and how Kim's reaction to Gene further drives Gene down the path of the pathologies he's displayed as Jimmy, then Saul, since season one. Really great stuff.

This is my take too. Those episodes were necessary to build to this. Saul reawakens in Gene just enough for the mutual destruction con with Jeffy and then very pointedly walks away from the very Saul Goodman-esque shirt and coat combo at the end. That would seem to be the end of it. He's still Gene Takovic, mild mannered mall store manager. But then Francesca tells him all his secreted money is gone, that it was all for nothing, and oh by the way, Kim asked about you after all this time. So the phone call happens where once again they prove Kim right about how profoundly they influence each other. Gene goads Kim into waking up enough from her stultifying (and I keep using that word because it feels like it fits so perfectly) new life to try to go back and clean up the mess she left behind only to find out that it doesn't really fix anything or likely change anything. Her purgatory is the one she built for herself in Florida. Meanwhile, Gene now knows he's got absolutely nothing left to lose except a monochromatic life at a mall Cinnabon counter so he goes full Saul again, stealing identities, B&E, and nearly murdering old ladies and a passed out cancer patient in very short order.

You can't really get there in a way that feels truly earned without the buildup to it.

[SunnyBeBe]

I intend to watch this episode again the weekend, but wasn’t that song that Gene was singing on the way to pick up Marion, The Tide Is High by Blondie?  

[Spartan Girl]

My two cents: there is no real redemption for anyone in the BB universe. Not Walt, not Jimmy, not Kim…nothing they do can ever really make up for their actions. Jesse came the closest because he did help Hank and Gomie bust Walt before it all got blown to hell, but in El Camino he was very self-aware that the damage he caused (and helped cause) was done. He might be able to find peace, but his conscience will never be wholly clean.

Same story with Kim. With everyone else connected to Howard’s murder dead and no chance of finding the body, the only true purpose of her confession was to absolve her own guilt—and it didn’t even do that. 

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I intend to watch this episode again the weekend, but wasn’t that song that Gene was singing on the way to pick up Marion, The Tide Is High by Blondie?  

Yes it was. That was hilarious.

[Simon Boccanegra]

Among many things I learned from "Waterworks": Sober Jimmy can murder Blondie as brutally as drunk Jimmy murdered ABBA. Chuck definitely got the ability to carry a tune in that family.

[JudyObscure]

13 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

My two cents: there is no real redemption for anyone in the BB universe. Not Walt, not Jimmy, not Kim…nothing they do can ever really make up for their actions.

My take on this is that attempts to make up for a wrong are acts of atonement. 

Redemption is another thing and not dependent on specific acts. The Christian teachings on this (as I feebly understand it) is the only thing required to be redeemed is to confess your mistakes,(to God not to the police) then stop whatever the mistakes are and "go and sin no more."  Jesus simply forgave people he never followed it up with, "Now go and work in the salt mines."

37 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Kim into waking up enough from her stultifying (and I keep using that word because it feels like it fits so perfectly) new life to try to go back and clean up the mess she left behind only to find out that it doesn't really fix anything or likely change anything. Her purgatory is the one she built for herself in Florida.

Yes, and she built for herself something not required for redemption. I want to shake her and tell her she didn't need to muffle her brain and erase her personality, she just needed to stop messing with people. If she requires atonement of herself she could do something that would use her energy and intelligence to actually help people.  Medicine, social work, anything but sprinklers.

Lots of people do things they regret deeply and can't undo.  I thought her break down on the bus was her moment of realization that she will never really be able to undo the damage she did and she's going to have to live with that. 

Maybe now she will begin to accept that and quit punishing herself because no one is keeping score, no amount of self denial will bring back a dead man. Even Kim in prison wont bring Howard back.

I hope that nice woman on the bus tells her that whatever it is, it's time to forgive herself and go on.

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, DrSparkles said:

Duke’s is nasty.

Of course people's tastes vary, but can you be more specific?

[BetyBee]

I've watched Waterworks twice now and can't wait for the series finale! I was freaking out when it seemed that Gene was going to kill Marion. That he stopped and handed back her Life Alert, was his only redeeming moment. But I can't be proud of him for not murdering a helpless old lady! That's too low of a bar. I wonder if he has time to grab his diamonds before he scurries off? It doesn't seem like he would, which means his apartment will be searched and some things will be discovered. I believe the Gs will come up with a great finish for this excellent show. 

[Spartan Girl]

20 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

My take on this is that attempts to make up for a wrong are acts of atonement. 

Redemption is another thing and not dependent on specific acts. The Christian teachings on this (as I feebly understand it) is the only thing required to be redeemed is to confess your mistakes,(to God not to the police) then stop whatever the mistakes are and "go and sin no more."  Jesus simply forgave people he never followed it up with, "Now go and work in the salt mines."

Yes, and she built for herself something not required for redemption. I want to shake her and tell her she didn't need to muffle her brain and erase her personality, she just needed to stop messing with people. If she requires atonement of herself she could do something that would use her energy and intelligence to actually help people.  Medicine, social work, anything but sprinklers.

Lots of people do things they regret deeply and can't undo.  I thought her break down on the bus was her moment of realization that she will never really be able to undo the damage she did and she's going to have to live with that. 

Maybe now she will begin to accept that and quit punishing herself because no one is keeping score, no amount of self denial will bring back a dead man. Even Kim in prison wont bring Howard back.

I hope that nice woman on the bus tells her that whatever it is, it's time to forgive herself and go on.

A very good take, but I still feel like Kim’s atonement was too little and too late. And I’m not sure she ever can or should forgive herself for what she did to Howard. Would she be feeling this much remorse if Lalo never showed up that night, and all she did was just ruin Howard’s life?

[SimplexFish]

10 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I figure they used Ask Jeeves because that's the jokey thing an old person would use instead of Google. Either that or AltaVista. I think either the writers didn't do their homework or they figured it really didn't matter. And it doesn't.

Too bad Duck Duck Go wasn't around for the writes to use for Marion back then LOL

[SunnyBeBe]

Wasn’t Paul changed to Saul in the  Biblical conversion on the road to Damascus?  Hmmm…but since he’s Gene now that comparison might not be applicable.  Lol 

Edited August 10, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[SimplexFish]

9 hours ago, Barbarblacksheep said:

Did you notice that the young female lawyer had a ponytail? Almost identical to Kim's old Cindy Brady style, too.

Since this is the second mention of Kim's "Cindy Brady ponytail", I thought I would clarify that Cindy actually wore two pigtails and never a single ponytail.

https://www.charactour.com/hub/characters/view/Cindy-Brady.The-Brady-Bunch

Jus sayin...

[PeterPirate]

13 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

My take on this is that attempts to make up for a wrong are acts of atonement. 

Redemption is another thing and not dependent on specific acts. The Christian teachings on this (as I feebly understand it) is the only thing required to be redeemed is to confess your mistakes,(to God not to the police) then stop whatever the mistakes are and "go and sin no more."  Jesus simply forgave people he never followed it up with, "Now go and work in the salt mines."

Yes, and she built for herself something not required for redemption. I want to shake her and tell her she didn't need to muffle her brain and erase her personality, she just needed to stop messing with people. If she requires atonement of herself she could do something that would use her energy and intelligence to actually help people.  Medicine, social work, anything but sprinklers.

Lots of people do things they regret deeply and can't undo.  I thought her break down on the bus was her moment of realization that she will never really be able to undo the damage she did and she's going to have to live with that. 

Maybe now she will begin to accept that and quit punishing herself because no one is keeping score, no amount of self denial will bring back a dead man. Even Kim in prison wont bring Howard back.

I hope that nice woman on the bus tells her that whatever it is, it's time to forgive herself and go on.

Great post.  This is why I wish the "Like" emoji was the default, so that when I hit "Love", it's because I really mean it.  

I remember being confused when I first saw people posting about the "redemption" of a fictional character.  I still don't really know what the term means, just that it gets used a lot.  I suppose it means a person lives up to their potential, or at least their core personality.  

Kim is smart and capable and aspired to be Atticus Finch.  She could have equaled if not surpassed Chuck.  She can still help people legally, perhaps not as a lawyer, but as someone mentioned above, she could be the best paralegal in the world.  

I agree Kim can never, ever make up for what she did to Howard.  But she can still make the most of her talents and live her best life.  Going back to Palm Coast Sprinklers will be a waste.