S12.E04: The Crystal Conundrum

[SweetieDarling]

Did anyone else think it was odd that Garcelle was willing and ready (almost eager) to re-evaluate her relationship with and feelings toward Sutton based on something Sutton said to Crystal a year ago that had been forgiven, because Crystal said it was "dark"?

[RealHousewife]

1 minute ago, SweetieDarling said:

Did anyone else think it was odd that Garcelle was willing and ready (almost eager) to re-evaluate her relationship with and feelings toward Sutton based on something Sutton said to Crystal a year ago that had been forgiven, because Crystal said it was "dark"?

I wonder if Garcelle said some stuff just because she knew it would make for good dramatic TV, like watch your back with your new friend or whatever. 

Even if there was more, Garcelle saw that conversation between Sutton and Crystal. She knows Sutton isn't the wokest person, but she sees a kindness in her that the others don't have. I can see Sutton saying something ignorant, but I don't think she'd say anything hateful. I doubt whatever she said is a friendship dealbreaker, but that's just me. 

[Mar]

15 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Look, Dorit has obviously been through a traumatic experience. But if she can't handle being in environments where she can't control what's going on, she needs to stay at home. And climb down from the cross. 

Would that be the same cross that Vicki Gunvalson claimed she was being nailed to, just like Jesus?

(This was because the other women were picking on her on The Real Housewives of Orange County.)

[Jel]

25 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Garcelle was the one who brought it up in the first place. Garcelle was the one who essentially backed Crystal into the corner. Garcelle may be direct (I mean, I will say that I think she is) but that doesn't excuse her from stirring the pot. She absolutely was responsible for setting this whole thing in motion and was IMO pot-stirring.

I think of "stirring the pot" as an underhanded, sneaky way to create drama. Or sometimes it's used as a deflection technique (Hi Rinna!). This is in contrast to "clearing the air", which I think is Garcelle's MO. I definitely did notice that Garcelle brought it up, but I think she brought it up to get everything out on the table, not to create trouble, drama or cause bad feelings. I think she was either trying to problem solve or she was trying to shed some light on shadiness. 

(Metaphor daily allotment maximum reached ;)

[Keywestclubkid]

10 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I wonder if Garcelle said some stuff just because she knew it would make for good dramatic TV, like watch your back with your new friend or whatever. 

Even if there was more, Garcelle saw that conversation between Sutton and Crystal. She knows Sutton isn't the wokest person, but she sees a kindness in her that the others don't have. I can see Sutton saying something ignorant, but I don't think she'd say anything hateful. I doubt whatever she said is a friendship dealbreaker, but that's just me. 

I think its the fact that Sutton and Crystal (by crystals admission) worked through it and it should have been dead ... Crystal bringing this up to a bunch of women who had no reason to know any of this and who dislike and are looking for any reason to attack Sutton is beyond wrong and was really throwing her under the bus (like they said) ... she knows they will just want to use whatever it is as ammo against her... 

[Ms Blue Jay]

17 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I wonder if Garcelle said some stuff just because she knew it would make for good dramatic TV, like watch your back with your new friend or whatever. 

I agree, Garcelle didn't actually mean any of that.  It's all just shit she's projecting onto try to make Crystal look nefarious.

I think it's funny that people are so scandalized by Crystal saying it was 'dark'!  To me that reads like a polite euphemism for whatever happened. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Mar]

14 hours ago, Pattycake2 said:

Dorit has duck lips.

Aaargh, When the women on these reality shows do this to their lips, I can’t focus on anything they are saying because I am so horrified by looking at the lips.

[Keywestclubkid]

Ive never been in a store .. im allergic to dust... bitch those 20 something years you lived poor and has a maid how did you ever make it day to day? did you not dust in that cleaning job? did you not buy clothes to wear to go to that job? Lying about such stupid things is irking the hell out of me

[Jel]

9 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I agree, Garcelle didn't actually mean any of that.  It's all just shit she's projecting onto try to make Crystal look nefarious.

I think it's funny that people are so scandalized by Crystal saying it was 'dark'!  To me that reads like a polite euphemism for whatever happened. 

I think it's the ambiguity-but-without-ambiguity. She gives the clear impression that it was bad, but what kind of bad? Racist? Violent? Threatening?

 I don't think it was a euphemism; if anything I suspect (and I could be wrong) but I suspect it was a dysphemism. 

It's within the realm of possibility I guess that Sutton could have said something really awful off camera, but if she did, if she really said something so awful, why cultivate a friendship with her after the fact? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I agreed with Crystal about the use of the word violated. She's well within her rights to describe her feelings as she sees fit. But in this case she didn't say "it felt dark", she said it was dark.  And either it was or it wasn't. So now, the question is, well what did she say? Because if it truly was dark, then we want to know what was said. And Crystal won't say.  Red flag for me. YMMV.

[Ms Blue Jay]

It's her way of defending her reaction to Sutton, but trying to be gracious to Sutton by not actually revealing what she said.  She's actually trying to be kind to Sutton, but the women have twisted as if she's doing something bad to her.  It's messed up because this all came about as Garcelle trying to stir up a year old conflict to get - what?  Crystal to admit she "set up Sutton"?  Why the hell would she do that?

I know people who set up people to be in no-win situations.  No matter how you answer the question, you cannot win.  No matter what Crystal said to Garcelle in that moment, she was going to lose.  She actually picked the most polite thing she could say.  She defended herself, gave a reason, but didn't spill everything.  Yet - somehow it's wrong.  It can never be right.

Crystal is not good on her feet.  The women know that.  She should have anticipated that someone would bring up a year long conflict, but because she's 'normal', she didn't.  If she were better on her feet she would have just said "I wasn't trying to set her up", and left it at that.  But alas, she tells the truth.  Big mistake with these people.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Jel]

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's her way of defending her reaction to Sutton, but trying to be gracious to Sutton by not actually revealing what she said.  She's actually trying to be kind to Sutton, but the women have twisted as if she's doing something to her.  It's messed up because this all came about as Garcelle trying to stir up a year old conflict to get - what?  Crystal to admit she "set up Sutton"?  Why the hell would she do that?

What could have been so bad that it's too bad to share, but also not bad enough to prevent her from actively cultivating a friendship with her? I'm sincerely trying to think of something that could meet both requirements, and I can't.  It's got to be "dark" (read horrible) but also so forgivable that she's willing to go beyond just cordial to actual, off camera friendship.

I wish she'd just say what it was.

[Ms Blue Jay]

It's a job.  That's the best thing you can do with a job like this, is cultivate work friendships.  They don't have to be 'real', but for the job, you do it.  We can't know for sure that Crystal is real life friends with Sutton.  Sure, they pose for Instagram, but that is not how I mark a real life friendship. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[eleanorofaquitaine]

34 minutes ago, Jel said:

I think of "stirring the pot" as an underhanded, sneaky way to create drama. Or sometimes it's used as a deflection technique (Hi Rinna!). This is in contrast to "clearing the air", which I think is Garcelle's MO. I definitely did notice that Garcelle brought it up, but I think she brought it up to get everything out on the table, not to create trouble, drama or cause bad feelings. I think she was either trying to problem solve or she was trying to shed some light on shadiness. 

(Metaphor daily allotment maximum reached ;)

I think it was underhanded (though not my definition of sneaky) of Garcelle to ask Crystal to come over to clear the air about the night before only to seemingly ambush her about the whole "are you that girl?" conversation. If Garcelle had concerns about that discussion a year later - which, granted, could be genuine given her friendship with Sutton - why not have one of those patented Beverly Hills lunches? Or even have the discussion with both Sutton and Crystal? Doing it this way, among a group that was already giving Crystal a hard time felt like an ambush to me and IMO was underhanded. IMO it was pot-stirring. YMMV.

31 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I think its the fact that Sutton and Crystal (by crystals admission) worked through it and it should have been dead ... Crystal bringing this up to a bunch of women who had no reason to know any of this and who dislike and are looking for any reason to attack Sutton is beyond wrong and was really throwing her under the bus (like they said) ... she knows they will just want to use whatever it is as ammo against her... 

Crystal didn't "bring this up," Garcelle did. Much as some want to hand-wave that away, it is what happened. Crystal wasn't going after Sutton and even now, it seems clear to me she doesn't want to rehash the discussion because she wants to move forward with Sutton. Whatever reasons Garcelle had for bringing it up, Garcelle is the one responsible for "bringing it up," not Crystal. Crystal is just responsible for defending herself against her words and emotions being policed to death by the other women. 

[Jel]

Didn't they say they developed a friendship after last season ie when they weren't working? I agree that their filming friendships can be fake, but I got the impression those two were hanging out when the cameras were not rolling.

[Keywestclubkid]

3 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I think it was underhanded (though not my definition of sneaky) of Garcelle to ask Crystal to come over to clear the air about the night before only to seemingly ambush her about the whole "are you that girl?" conversation. If Garcelle had concerns about that discussion a year later - which, granted, could be genuine given her friendship with Sutton - why not have one of those patented Beverly Hills lunches? Or even have the discussion with both Sutton and Crystal? Doing it this way, among a group that was already giving Crystal a hard time felt like an ambush to me and IMO was underhanded. IMO it was pot-stirring. YMMV.

Crystal didn't "bring this up," Garcelle did. Much as some want to hand-wave that away, it is what happened. Crystal wasn't going after Sutton and even now, it seems clear to me she doesn't want to rehash the discussion because she wants to move forward with Sutton. Whatever reasons Garcelle had for bringing it up, Garcelle is the one responsible for "bringing it up," not Crystal. Crystal is just responsible for defending herself against her words and emotions being policed to death by the other women. 

Crystal is the one that brought up the dark that cant be laid at Garcelle's feet.. that is all on Crystal ... she chose that word she chose to allude to things ... 

[Jel]

3 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I think it was underhanded (though not my definition of sneaky) of Garcelle to ask Crystal to come over to clear the air about the night before only to seemingly ambush her about the whole "are you that girl?" conversation. If Garcelle had concerns about that discussion a year later - which, granted, could be genuine given her friendship with Sutton - why not have one of those patented Beverly Hills lunches? Or even have the discussion with both Sutton and Crystal? Doing it this way, among a group that was already giving Crystal a hard time felt like an ambush to me and IMO was underhanded. IMO it was pot-stirring. YMMV.

Crystal didn't "bring this up," Garcelle did. Much as some want to hand-wave that away, it is what happened. Crystal wasn't going after Sutton and even now, it seems clear to me she doesn't want to rehash the discussion because she wants to move forward with Sutton. Whatever reasons Garcelle had for bringing it up, Garcelle is the one responsible for "bringing it up," not Crystal. Crystal is just responsible for defending herself against her words and emotions being policed to death by the other women. 

You know what, I agree Garcelle could have handled it better. A lunch, even a phone call would have been a better way to have the conversation. But I don't think Garcelle was doing it in a malicious way.  I think her intention was a good one, even if execution wasn't perfect.  Mileage does vary, but that's okay.

[MaggieG]

So Erika can't talk about the victims or show she has compassion for them because it's a legal issue but she can accuse them of lying about receiving the money? She is truly vile.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

6 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Crystal is the one that brought up the dark that cant be laid at Garcelle's feet.. that is all on Crystal ... she chose that word she chose to allude to things ... 

And this gets back to why Crystal is frustrated (and rightfully so). She's allowed to have reactions and use the words she wants to use. She didn't call Sutton racist (though she did imply that and so okay, I am fine with them pushing her to clarify that). She used the word "dark," which - like violated - has a number of different, valid definitions. 

4 minutes ago, Jel said:

You know what, I agree Garcelle could have handled it better. A lunch, even a phone call would have been a better way to have the conversation. But I don't think Garcelle was doing it in a malicious way.  I think her intention was a good one, even if execution wasn't perfect.  Mileage does vary, but that's okay.

I am not sure I think Garcelle was being malicious - I think it is possible she's threatened by Sutton and Crystal's emerging friendship but I will have to see what happens during the rest of the season. But I think that Garcelle knows how the game is played here and stirring up conflict is one way to protect one's position on the show. She may not have any real animus towards Crystal but this is how it works and Garcelle knows that.

[dmeets]

34 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

So Erika can't talk about the victims or show she has compassion for them because it's a legal issue but she can accuse them of lying about receiving the money? She is truly vile.

Even Rinna had a look on her face like, oh shit, did she really just go there?

[Baltimore Betty]

OMG! All the reaction buttons, so fun!!!! 

[OlderThanDirt]

This whole argument is likely to drive many of us to the cancel button on our DVRs. I thought the whole reason they started filming immediately after last season ended was to exploit the Girardi storyline. If all we're going to get is repeated smirking shots of Erika in her Pasadena matron pantsuits, I'll be out.

That said, I think we (and the RHOBH) are missing Crystal's point. At LA Quinta, she was saying they were all jumping on Sutton (following Kyle's lead) just like they did to her last year. I thought the comment was valid but the women chose to misunderstand and reopen the issue from last year.  As far as what Sutton said that preceded Crystal's "Are you the girl who says 'I don't see color'?", I remember  Sutton saying that people judge her based on her southern accent at which point Crystal took off on her.  

Accents are a funny thing with these women. Some have worked to lose them (Erika, Crystal and Diana- mostly) and others pick them up (Dorrit).

Edited June 2, 2022 by OlderThanDirt
Fat finger caused premature posting

[SassyCat]

45 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

OMG! All the reaction buttons, so fun!!!! 

What the heck is going on with these new reaction buttons? Some of them are pretty dumb. Like .. Oh ! How teddybear that post was! Or, ..that post made me feel like a rainbow!  And the fire, what the heck ? Plus they took away two actual reaction icons of surprise and sadness. This is just really weird. I don’t like it.

[Mar]

2 hours ago, Jel said:

Didn't they say they developed a friendship after last season ie when they weren't working? I agree that their filming friendships can be fake, but I got the impression those two were hanging out when the cameras were not rolling.

They are still posting some things on Instagram that show them having fun together. Most recently they were at a baseball game together

[Cosmocrush]

14 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Let Crystal use violate, dark, or whatever. These women keep holding her to a higher standard, like when she was called dramatic the last episode when she's one of the least dramatic. 

Exactly.  She even tried to extract herself from the ridiculous rehash, explaining she didn't feel she was in a safe space and the harpies went crazy that she wouldn't think Kyles house wasn't safe - especially Dorit who only sees/hears things as all about herself. 

Then, they (Garcelle) just couldn't let Crystal be done with it and basically bugged her to return for more.  Crystal cannot win.  

Personally I admire Crystal for at least professionally trying to put Sutton's past behavior behind them.  That's way more than I would be willing to do after Sutton's behavior towards her last year.  Of COURSE Sutton wants to move past it.  She was the one behaving badly last year. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

How teddybear that post was! Or, ..that post made me feel like a rainbow!  And the fire, what the heck ?

Apparently, teddybear = hugs, rainbow = thanks.

No clue about fire, though...

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, dmeets said:

Even Rinna had a look on her face like, oh shit, did she really just go there?

Rinna and Kyle both wore the WTF faces when Erika was talking. 😂

[MaggieG]

17 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

Rinna and Kyle both wore the WTF faces when Erika was talking. 😂

But of course, they don't say anything about it and just continue supporting her. 

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, SassyCat said:

What the heck is going on with these new reaction buttons? Some of them are pretty dumb. Like .. Oh ! How teddybear that post was! Or, ..that post made me feel like a rainbow!  And the fire, what the heck ? Plus they took away two actual reaction icons of surprise and sadness. This is just really weird. I don’t like it.

The teddy bear is an odd choice, I'd rather have a puke button.  I like the fire, I would use when I absolutely agree with a post, like more than just heart, really like hence the fire. The rainbow I guess if a post is woke or something, I don't know.  I miss the sad and surprise buttons too.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, OlderThanDirt said:

Accents are a funny thing with these women. Some have worked to lose them (Erika, Crystal and Diana- mostly) and others pick them up (Dorrit).

What accent are you referring to with Crystal?  She's from California.

[Surrealist]

29 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

But of course, they don't say anything about it and just continue supporting her. 

This is one of the worst things about both. No backbone when it comes to Erika.

[Cosmocrush]

17 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Erika pretending that she loves it when she's not invited places!  That's hilarious!  

When she told her staff paid "friends" that she was very happy not to HAVE to get dressed and go out it really showed what a shitty actress she is too!

For something like six years, all Erika has done is "get dressed" by her glam team and go places where cameras could capture it.

Sutton's one millionth Parisian themed event (Does Sutton ever do any other themes?) went off perfectly without her and her nasty sidekick Rinna.  

[SemiCharmedLife]

2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

OMG! All the reaction buttons, so fun!!!! 

But, they didn't give us the "vomit" reaction button we've been asking for!!

[SemiCharmedLife]

1 hour ago, OlderThanDirt said:

This whole argument is likely to drive many of us to the cancel button on our DVRs. I thought the whole reason they started filming immediately after last season ended was to exploit the Girardi storyline. If all we're going to get is repeated smirking shots of Erika in her Pasadena matron pantsuits, I'll be out.

There is really no Girardi storyline to exploit-  this case will proceed slower than a geriatric snail climbing Mount Everest.  Unless Bravo wants to throw us a bone and show us how Erika is lassoing the next Sugar Daddy or struggling to live on a reality tv star's salary, her being on the show just makes most of us angry that she can still live her best life after spending all those ill-gotten millions on herself.

[WhatAmIWatching]

Does Erika have any friends that she's not either paying to be around her, or paid to hang around? 
 

  Good heavens, they have to re-litigate violategate? The preview is the same darn argument between Sutton and Crystal, but it's over the word "dark" instead of "violate".
  The only reason I feel that Crystal could (maybe) be a bit more careful with her word choices, is because half of the women don't have enough vocabulary to understand that words can have more than one meaning, or even different shades of meaning. Maybe Louis Vuitton should make a logo covered thesaurus!

Edited June 2, 2022 by WhatAmIWatching
Forgot a to

[vmarsissmart]

20 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

How dare Sutton have press and promotion at her event?! Doesn't she care about what Dorit's been through?

Look, Dorit has obviously been through a traumatic experience. But if she can't handle being in environments where she can't control what's going on, she needs to stay at home. And climb down from the cross. 

Lives go on, and you shouldn't have to stop your life for a co-worker.  You can care and have compassion, but they aren't real friends.  They are coworkers. 

[Cozytea]

2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

OMG! All the reaction buttons, so fun!!!! 

They are! When did we get them?  I love them.

[Keywestclubkid]

1 minute ago, vmarsissmart said:

Lives go on, and you shouldn't have to stop your life for a co-worker.  You can care and have compassion, but they aren't real friends.  They are coworkers. 

The funny thing to me is It was Sutton’s event at Sutton’s business paid for by Sutton lol if it was EVER ok for Sutton to be “self absorbed” wouldn’t that be it? Lol 

[ZettaK]

57 minutes ago, Cozytea said:

They are! When did we get them?  I love them.

Today.

[ZettaK]

2 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Apparently, teddybear = hugs, rainbow = thanks.

No clue about fire, though...

Your post is/you are on fire (it's a great post).

[Surrealist]

6 minutes ago, ZettaK said:

Your post is/you are on fire (it's a great post).

Exactly. Or as some younger folks like to say, "This post is fire."

[Hiyo]

So it's like the lovechild of the "love" and "thumbs up" emoji after taking some acid?

[Vanderboom]

3 hours ago, OlderThanDirt said:

smirking shots of Erika in her Pasadena matron pantsuits

You know you wanted to say "snowsuits." 😊

There's a desperation to Erika's insistence that the charges against Tom were "disproven." I just don't know why the other ladies are coddling her. They can't possibly believe that a cabal of widows and orphans got together to defraud Tom.

[CrinkleCutCat]

6 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I think its the fact that Sutton and Crystal (by crystals admission) worked through it and it should have been dead ... Crystal bringing this up to a bunch of women who had no reason to know any of this and who dislike and are looking for any reason to attack Sutton is beyond wrong and was really throwing her under the bus (like they said) ... she knows they will just want to use whatever it is as ammo against her... 

Erika REALLY wants to know what Sutton said! Her face just lit up at the possibility of ammo against Sutton.

[JD5166]

4 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

OMG! All the reaction buttons, so fun!!!! 

Better than this stupid show!!! So excited!

[FlyingEgret]

21 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I mean he isn’t wrong

Thanks for this.  Clearly Dorit wasn't upset that press was there; she was upset that she wasn't given the opportunity to pre-arrange an exclusive interview with whichever press would be there...

[Cosmocrush]

3 hours ago, WhatAmIWatching said:

 The only reason I feel that Crystal could (maybe) be a bit more careful with her word choices, is because half of the women don't have enough vocabulary to understand that words can have more than one meaning, or even different shades of meaning. Maybe Louis Vuitton should make a logo covered thesaurus!

Exactly! One good example would be the word safe.   Crystal didn't feel that hanging out with women intent on attacking her was a safe place for her at that moment.  So she did what any adult would do and leave.  But Dorit and Kyle et all took the word to mean physical safety and were APPALLED that Crystal used the phrase. 

[princelina]

3 hours ago, WhatAmIWatching said:

Does Erika have any friends that she's not either paying to be around her, or paid to hang around? 

Rumor has it she's getting lots of good dick!  (of course, she started that rumor 😂)

[blixie]

Quote

That's the best thing you can do with a job like this,

What I don't get is what's darker than ERIKA? And Crystal certainly has talked less smack about Erika than Sutton, but I also felt like their budding friendship pretty genuine, that LA Times article seemed pretty authentic as did her comments on WWHL re: where they stood. I think it's normal though that she can't ever really forget the things Sutton said/did, even if she was willing to move forward. She basically said their being close was new and fragile, and obviously it is/was. 

Focus on the victim blaming hosebeast, both of you.

[Chicklet]

So will Erika mention that Tom was disbarred and ordered to pay restitution in the millions? Of course that just happened today and I don't know if they are done shooting this seasons. Of course Tom is guilty but Erika is innocent I tell you!

And I don't get any emojis, it's blank (sniff).

[Cosmocrush]

Anyone else think Erika passed on Sutton's event because she didn't have the staff and/or outfits to style her a la the old days of free spending her husband's ill gotten gains? 

And speaking of Sutton's store event, this is the second Parisian party she's hosted where the intent is for her guests to buy her merchandise - the last one at her home which I thought was tacky.  This one I give a pass since it's literally in her shop.  

However, I agree that the French designer should not have been allowed in the country.  Those clothes were, uh, something but not really what I have in mind with the words French couture.