S02.E13: Fair Weather Friends

[TexasGal]

Quote

After returning home from their trip from hell, Lisa questions Meredith’s loyalty and friendship, but Meredith thinks they’re all responsible for what happened in Vail. Jen feels alone and isolated, but Heather agrees to see her and offer her support. Mary meets with an organizer to try to bring order to her chaos, while Jennie plans a Pho luncheon. Whitney confesses her rebrand has drained the family savings, but goes ahead with an expensive photo shoot.

Airdate: 12/12/2021

[Straycat80]

I’m actually admiring these women, except for Heather, who are being careful about having too much to do with Jen. Not like those kiss asses on Bev. Hills with Erika Jane. 
Here’s another cryer (Jen) who cries with no actual tears. Faker. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Straycat80

[Keywestclubkid]

It was ALL Stewart… lol girl? 

[Keywestclubkid]

I’m really bad with money … oooops

[FlyingEgret]

I am actually ok with Heather meeting Jen for lunch - as long as she keeps the sympathy limited to the treatment of Jen's kids and keeps up the side eye over Jen's denial of any knowledge of what was going on. It's a tightrope that I'm hoping Heather can walk...

[njbchlover]

7 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

It was ALL Stewart… lol girl? 

I knew Jen was going to throw Stuart under the bus.  Of course, he has his own businesses and she has nothing at all to do with them.

[Keywestclubkid]

The more things I have the bigger my heart is? Ummm what the what Mary? 

[FlyingEgret]

And I want to know where Mary thinks she got the money if it didnt come from other people...

[Keywestclubkid]

Lisa girl calm down … this reaction seems super over the top. 

[Stats Queen]

Just started watching but Jen describing how her children were held by gun point and one was put in handcuffs with  one seeing a red laser on his chest (like a sniper, not like Seinfeld, I assume) was really bizarre and made no sense. If it happened it is all kinds of wrong. I am personally not buying any of the crap this woman is spewing unless there is evidence to the contrary.

[Keywestclubkid]

I love that Popeyes is his favorite lol 

[TexasGal]

Way to ruin Coach’s Popeye’s Jen.  Selfish.  😂

[Keywestclubkid]

You just tried to throw Stewart under the bus. Girl really bitching because Lisa wasn’t ride or die? 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Keywestclubkid

[Straycat80]

I think the elderly people you ripped off had their feelings hurt too Jen. I’m not feeling sorry for Coach Shah either, he had to have known something was off, he seems like an educated man. This acting is all for the cameras. 

[Michichick]

Jen and her crocodile tears, wow. Does anyone fall for her bullshit?

[MerBearStare]

Mary is a truly fucked up person. A psychiatrist would have a field day with her.

I think Lisa hates Whitney so much because she thinks Whitney is stupid but she's continuously getting outsmarted by Whitney and it angers her.

I feel for Jen's family members who had guns pulled on them by law enforcement that day. As young black men, they were in real danger. But there was one person responsible for putting them in that position and that person was Jen, so she can miss me with her tears. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - my loyalty to my friends ends with federal indictments (fortunately I don't hang out with scumbags, so that hasn't been an issue so far). If Jen were smart, she would have stopped filming as soon as she was arrested. But she went on this show knowing she was doing something illegal, so it's not surprising she didn't stop.

[mbaywife123]

From looking online it appears that Whitney is rebranding iris + beau to Wildrose and looks a lot like an MLM.

Hey Mary here is an idea: take about three quarters of your clothing, shoes, bags, ect. And set up a "church"  thrift store to benefit 

your followers with housing, food and so on.

Mary is a total hoarder, albeit high end stuff.

Can't stand that annoying little girl. Be gone spoiled and indulged crotch fruit.

Edited December 13, 2021 by mbaywife123
darn auto correct

[mothmonsterman]

Whitney's husband is a lot calmer/nicer than me. I would not take kindly to my partner tee-heeing about being bad with money after they just invested a million. 

[princelina]

2 hours ago, njbchlover said:

I knew Jen was going to throw Stuart under the bus.  Of course, he has his own businesses and she has nothing at all to do with them.

Of course!  I know people who own their own business(es) and they're all looking for a side-gig as someone's "second assistant" 🤣😂🤣😂

[Stats Queen]

OMG,  did Whitney actually spend all their savings on “rebranding”?  Is that rebranding a brand that no one heard of? Whitney Rose is an awesome name for a brand.

I know why Facebook rebranded itself to Meta (what a stupid name) but that won’t fix their PR problems.

[jalady]

The things the government can do to you without proof?  Girl, please.  As a former prosecutor I can say I’m damn sure a judge or grand jury signed off on your indictment after they were provided with - PROOF!

[Steph J]

2 hours ago, FlyingEgret said:

And I want to know where Mary thinks she got the money if it didnt come from other people...

Jesus, obviously.

 

1 hour ago, mothmonsterman said:

Whitney's husband is a lot calmer/nicer than me. I would not take kindly to my partner tee-heeing about being bad with money after they just invested a million. 

I predict that when Justin dies, there will be an ugly fight between Whitney and the kids from his first marriage over whatever is left of his estate.

On an unrelated note, I love that horse whose response to Lisa trying to direct him was to just stand there and take a dump. That is definitely the correct reaction to Lisa.

[TheCouchPotato]

Jen is living a Tony Soprano lie. If no one can understand or explain your job, including yourself, then clearly you’re running an illegal business. 

Mary is the reason I pray at home and don’t donate unless I know exactly where the money is going.  She’s truly delusional if she thinks she’s God. Also, can a church member please donate a decent wig, and some wax? All the money in the world, and she can’t seem to buy the basics. 

Why rebrand when you’ve never even heard of the first.  Maybe invest that money into the products itself. 
 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by TheCouchPotato

[Marley]

Whitney is rebranding but all I saw was her old company name. I had to Google what she was even selling. She’s kind of an idiot.

Mary is fucked up. I want her to be exposed.

I can’t with Jen. She’s such a lying crazy person. There’s no way her husband didn’t know something was going on with her businesses.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Marley

[SemiCharmedLife]

OMG!  Jen, true to form, is playing the victim card.  SHE is the one responsible for the trauma her family is undergoing.  I guess we shouldn't expect anything different from a narcissist.  

[Cheezwiz]

54 minutes ago, TheCouchPotato said:

Why rebrand when you’ve never even heard of the first.  Maybe invest that money into the products itself. 
 

I like Whitney, mostly because she's so good at owning Lisa, but her whole product re-brand thing seems totally hare-brained. Jenny totally had a good point - where are the products? WHAT are the products? 

More fake tears from Mrs. Shah. Coach, grab that Popeye's and run! RUN LIKE THE WIND COACH SHAH!!!

The scene with Jenny and her precocious kid was irritating, but now I'm hungry for Vietnamese food.

I'd really love to know why Heather is still so eager to be Jen's ride or die friend, especially since she doesn't seem especially convinced of her innocence.

I'm also hungry for Popeye's.

[Steph J]

4 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

I like Whitney, mostly because she's so good at owning Lisa, but her whole product re-brand thing seems totally hare-brained. Jenny totally had a good point - where are the products? WHAT are the products? 

More fake tears from Mrs. Shah. Coach, grab that Popeye's and run! RUN LIKE THE WIND COACH SHAH!!!

The scene with Jenny and her precocious kid was irritating, but now I'm hungry for Vietnamese food.

I'd really love to know why Heather is still so eager to be Jen's ride or die friend, especially since she doesn't seem especially convinced of her innocence.

I'm also hungry for Popeye's.

I don't want to be harsh about a literal kid, but the whole "wise beyond their years" persona is very irritating. No one wants to be condescended to by a pre-teen.

Re: Heather, I think she's overcompensating for her past as an overly judgmental Mormon by bending over backwards to show zero judgment now that she's left the church. I would imagine it's common among people who've broken away from religious indoctrination to turn around and reject everything they associate with that life and I think that's what's going on with Heather since she seems to still be struggling to reconcile who she is now to who she was then.

[bosawks]

Whitney’s company has tax write off for Justin all over it.

[JenE4]

I’m no marketing genius here, but if you’re taking out a million-dollar loan to rebrand your company from Iris + Beau to Wild Rose, maybe not wear an Iris + Beau t-shirt and hat in every single scene and hand out Iris + Beau swag at your $20,000 Wild Rose party that has no Wild Rose branding or product to be seen?? And I guess Whitney’s husband’s company is whatever his t-shirt said—Lifesomethingorother? Until I have proof otherwise, I’m going to assume their businesses consist of having one of those t-shirt presses in their garage, with a million dollars worth of black shirts and white vinyl letters ready to be melted on.

Mary has no mother to show her love (since she usurped the throne of the church from her) so she has “bonded” with tacky yet expensive clothing and accessories? I mean, the bond to any one item must be pretty tentative if you’re constantly buying more. Where is the money to buy all of this stuff coming from if not from the congregation of your church?!? I mean, isn’t that why most religions the head of the church leads a meager, pious life because the only money coming into the church is from the parishioners, and they use that money primarily to help the less fortunate? As an agnostic (aka atheist but not pushy about it), I probably know less about the inner-workings of a church than I do launching a beauty brand, but these are all common sense practices, right?

And while we’re on the topic of things I don’t know about but everyone just knows, let’s throw our unofficial law-enforcement knowledge from watching TV in there. It’s not like Jen was falsely accused and forensic evidence or some big Colombo moment is going to reveal the real perpetrator of the crime. She apparently sold “work-from home business opportunities” for like $99 or whatever when there were no such opportunities and then sold the contact information to other companies who also bilked these people out of additional money, so she made money directly from these people and each time she sold their info. If she just gathered their info for free maybe I could see the argument that she can’t control what other people do with this info or had no knowledge of their nefarious practices—but her business was straight-up nefarious, as well! And kudos to Princelina…

8 hours ago, princelina said:

Of course!  I know people who own their own business(es) and they're all looking for a side-gig as someone's "second assistant" 🤣😂🤣😂

You nailed it! Stu is suddenly a bigger business mogul than Whitney and Lisa’s children put together, but he’s working as one of Jen’s several assistants?!? Yeah, okay.

Speaking of Lisa…why does Lisa think everyone is speaking of her? What a freaking narcissist. With everything that’s going on with all of these people, “They’re counting Lisa Barlows,” says Lisa Barlow? I would just love it if all of these people just ignored Lisa and did just keep the focus on Jen and Mary. Lisa would completely whither from lack of attention.

Speaking of lack of attention… Jenny really can’t get anyone to film with her (unless she’s there as a background character while they’re talking about someone else). Once again, she’s filming with her smart-ass kid? I guess sampling pho is more interesting than making yogurt. Tune in next week to watch Jenny’s kids fold their laundry—with a big cliffhanger ending of one lone unmatched sock left behind.

[nexxie]

1 hour ago, bosawks said:

Whitney’s company has tax write off for Justin all over it.

Hmm. And I was about to suggest that Justin might be dearly regretting his mid-life crisis about now.

[nexxie]

11 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

It was ALL Stewart… lol girl? 

Wonder when this was filmed, and if Stuart knew about Jen’s comments when he turned the tables on her in the actual legal proceedings. Jen might be crying real tears now.

[nexxie]

For me this show has become watchable now that the two biggest sleazebags are being called on the carpet - the documentary on Psycho Mary can’t come soon enough!

[njbchlover]

7 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I like Whitney, mostly because she's so good at owning Lisa, but her whole product re-brand thing seems totally hare-brained. Jenny totally had a good point - where are the products? WHAT are the products? 

 

I agree!  And, why have a re-branding photo shoot and and all you are wearing is swag from the "old" brand? Personally, I think the other name, "iris + beau" is a little more current and has better marketing appeal.

If you watched RHOA in the early seasons...all I could think of was Dwight at Sheree's fashion show - "Who has a fashion show with NO fashions?"  One of the best lines of the Real Housewives franchises!!  😂

Edited December 13, 2021 by njbchlover

[TexasGal]

1 hour ago, njbchlover said:

 

If you watched RHOA in the early seasons...all I could think of was Dwight at Sheree's fashion show - "Who has a fashion show with NO fashions?"  One of the best lines of the Real Housewives franchises!!  😂

How dreadful!

Add me to the list of people very confused by all the talk about rebranding while wearing/handing out gear for the old brand.  I hope she didn't get that line of credit.

[Baltimore Betty]

Jenn crying fake tears and claiming it was all Stu's doing that got her in hot water, all him not her and in the same breath she says he is/was her assistant. Will Jenn take a page out of EJ's book and wear non waterproof mascara a key moment while filming?

What was that prayer over lunch, talking in to open hands, is that a thing?

How does Coach Shah sit there with a straight face?

Jennie hit the nail on the head, all the photos being taken and not one Wild Rose product to be seen but plenty of Iris and Beau merch is everywhere, nobody can be fired because it was all Whitney.  Whitney's husband has no idea what she is doing otherwise would he, a successful business man let her do the photo shoot and party.  I think we are looking at the start of a MLM, she has brand ambassadors, why? There is no brand yet or no new brand.  Something tells me these people will be buying Wild Rose kits of whatever Wild Rose is and will have to sell them.

 

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

2 hours ago, TexasGal said:

How dreadful!

Add me to the list of people very confused by all the talk about rebranding while wearing/handing out gear for the old brand.  I hope she didn't get that line of credit.

Is there going to be a 8 wick candle? Asking for a friend

[amarante]

Justin, Whitney's husband is a National Sales Director of a multi level marketing company aka - a Pyramid scheme which is what Lifeadvantage is. If you look up his resume he has held similar positions at numerous other MLM companies including the classic Shaklee. Based on positions held, he brings in a good income but not fantastically aspirationally wealthy.

The Wild Rose sells moderately expensive skin care products if you go to your site. I am perplexed as why someone would invest a lot of money in a skin care company because there are so many competitors in an oversaturated market. On the other hand, the buy in cost can actually be fairly low since there are companies on Alibaba which will sell you products for almost nothing and just slap on a label. I have seen "exposes" of some of these websites selling unknown "personal" brands and they show the branded jar next to the Alibaba generic no label and the only difference is one sells for $1 and the branded version sells $50 or $100. I would suspect the same is true of candles which are another WTF item except that one probably gets the manufacturer to add whatever odor one wants for an additional ten cents or so. 

Utah is one of the centers for MLM - or at least that is what I learned in the excellent expose of LuLaRo which is the MLM marketing fugly leggings. Great documentary on Netflix called The Rise and Fall of LuLaRoe.

Jen seems to be even more stupid than Erika in terms of her continuing to shoot after being arrested. Jen is the perfect example of a not very bright person who thinks she is smarter than anyone else including the Federal prosecutors. She assumed that her ridiculous lies would be believed. Lying about Coach Shah not being on the line - easily refuted since she can't come up with anyone willing to lie for her; the tears that aren't cried - at least Erika wore non-waterproof mascara and knows how to summon up enough self pity to open up the tear ducts and the attempt to do damage control by claiming she knew nothing about what was going on. 

The BRAVO production monkeys certainly shaded Jen by juxtaposing her lies about how the arrest occurred at her home and showing her kids weren't handcuffed and there were no assault rifles pointed at them. Yes it is a scary situation but the police had no  ability to know whether the people inside a house are going to go wild.

The problem with Jen's Shah's protestation of innocence is that in a white collar crime there are irrefutable paper trails and the testimony of one's co-conspirators is icing on the cake. It is why over 90% of Federal cases are pled out and the conviction rate for those which go to trail is above 90%.

After seeing Coach I suspect that he might have known something wasn't exactly kosher. He might not have criminal guilt but he certainly must have known that Jen's business could not possibly have provided money on the level she was funding. It seems as though they were a cash cow for the entire extended family - or at least that is what I got with the rather confusing conversation about why his family hadn't been in touch. Coach first attempt to claim it was because she had a new phone and then tapered off into them not knowing what to do.

Edited December 14, 2021 by amarante

[Rlb8031]

16 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

I think the elderly people you ripped off had their feelings hurt too Jen. I’m not feeling sorry for Coach Shah either, he had to have known something was off, he seems like an educated man. This acting is all for the cameras. 

I have a good friend whose brother-in-law was an attorney that ended up embezzling money from clients (a la Tom Giradi). Believe me it is quite possible for the spouse to NEVER know. In my friend's case, her brother-in-law was growing a successful business at the point that he and his wife got married. She worked for his as an office manager for 1-2 years then left when she had her first child. It was almost 20 years later when it all blew up. His wife swore up and down that everything was on the up-and-up when she was there, and she was never able to truly pinpoint when it went sideways or why her husband went from being a crusader for his clients to a con man running a pyramid scheme. He pled guilty and went to jail so without a trial she still had a bunch of unanswered questions by the time it was all over. 

Many spouses take their SO's at face value and don't ask a lot of questions. I also get the sense that women get much more of a pass about knowing what their husbands are up to than men get about their wives. That's deeply rooted in misogyny, so I'm going to avoid making that assumption. I'm going to give Coach the benefit of the doubt until there is some real evidence he knew and not just "he should have known". 

[Rlb8031]

6 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Where is the money to buy all of this stuff coming from if not from the congregation of your church?!? I mean, isn’t that why most religions the head of the church leads a meager, pious life because the only money coming into the church is from the parishioners, and they use that money primarily to help the less fortunate? As an agnostic (aka atheist but not pushy about it), I probably know less about the inner-workings of a church than I do launching a beauty brand, but these are all common sense practices, right?

Frankly, Mary's church model is not that unusual, especially for those preachers that preach "prosperity gospel" (ie. faith, positive speech and donation to the church will increase your material wealth and guarantee your place in heaven). She's just really bad at it, but if you want examples of people that have worked this particular scam successfully, look at Joel Osten, Crefflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Ken Copeland, etc.

[greeneyedscorpio]

 

I found this, don't know if it's been posted before, but it looks like Coach's salary significantly increased in 2018, so depending on how long she's been doing this, maybe he really didn't know.  His salary from 2018 on is nothing to sneeze at, so I can see how he just thought she was spending so much because they had a lot more to spend.  

Do we know how long she's been doing her shady stuff?

ETA: I hope this is ok to post.  It's public information on the utah.gov site.  

Edited December 13, 2021 by greeneyedscorpio

[MaggieG]

1 hour ago, amarante said:

The problem with Jen's Shah's protestation of innocence is that in a white collar crime there are irrefutable paper trails and the testimony of one's co-conspirators is icing on the cake. It is why over 90% of Federal cases are pled out and the conviction rate for those which go to trail is above 90%.

Seriously. The way she was telling the story to Heather made it seem like the government just decided "Hey, let's arrest Jenn Shah today and hold her family at gunpoint for no reason." Like no Jen, they have all the proof they need. I can't with her victim act. That was quite the performance at lunch.

Maybe I'm crazy but I like Whitney and I liked that she said fuck it and decided to go straight to source, Cameron. I also like that she's going to go to Lisa with the info. I would be so entertained if Lisa and Whitney decided to stop fighting and team up.

[howiveaddict]

5 hours ago, TexasGal said:

How dreadful!

Add me to the list of people very confused by all the talk about rebranding while wearing/handing out gear for the old brand.  I hope she didn't get that line of credit.

Maybe it was a way to get rid of the old swag. Or, maybe the stickers, with the new branding, did not arrive in time to put on top of the old branding.

3 hours ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

Is there going to be a 8 wick candle? Asking for a friend

IDK, but I received candles, I ordered , in the mail, today and I am mortified they are only one wick!

38 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

 

Maybe I'm crazy but I like Whitney and I liked that she said fuck it and decided to go straight to source, Cameron. I also like that she's going to go to Lisa with the info. I would be so entertained if Lisa and Whitney decided to stop fighting and team up.

That will never happen.  Lisa was on WWHL and she is furious that Whitney dare to go talk to Cameron on her own.  How dare she talk to him. He is Lisa's friend.  I don't know why Lisa hates Heather and Whitney so much.  Maybe because they don't suck up to her all the time.  

[Baltimore Betty]

Instead of Jenn tearlessly crying and pounding the table about her being innocent and point the finger at Stu maybe she could be a little quieter about things, all she would have had to do is say, "Something is going on, I am not sure what but I am assembling my legal team and waiting for more information."  Jenn has done herself no favors by her OTT reactions about the arrest and all thru season 1 and now she has gone and pissed off Stu by placing blame or suspicion of he is to blame and he will sing like a bird.

Will Heather carry WIld Rose products at her Med Spa and will the label read Iris & Beau?

Mary's bedroom, OMG, it had no rhyme or reason, what was that table full of water bottles in the middle of the floor? The closet with the piles of sweaters and racks of dresses gave me anxiety. Do we think she pulls an Eva Peron, you know if she sees a parishioner wearing something nice she gets them to give it to them or is she just never getting rid of anything?  That organizer will be living in her closet for weeks. What ever happened to Mary's cousin or was it her aunt who just loved cleaning for her, couldn't she help?

[Rlb8031]

9 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Instead of Jenn tearlessly crying and pounding the table about her being innocent and point the finger at Stu maybe she could be a little quieter about things, all she would have had to do is say, "Something is going on, I am not sure what but I am assembling my legal team and waiting for more information."  Jenn has done herself no favors by her OTT reactions about the arrest and all thru season 1 and now she has gone and pissed off Stu by placing blame or suspicion of he is to blame and he will sing like a bird.

Will Heather carry WIld Rose products at her Med Spa and will the label read Iris & Beau?

Mary's bedroom, OMG, it had no rhyme or reason, what was that table full of water bottles in the middle of the floor? The closet with the piles of sweaters and racks of dresses gave me anxiety. Do we think she pulls an Eva Peron, you know if she sees a parishioner wearing something nice she gets them to give it to them or is she just never getting rid of anything?  That organizer will be living in her closet for weeks. What ever happened to Mary's cousin or was it her aunt who just loved cleaning for her, couldn't she help?

Jeff Lewis called Mary a hoarder on WWHL...📣😂🙂

[JLaw]

19 hours ago, FlyingEgret said:

I am actually ok with Heather meeting Jen for lunch - as long as she keeps the sympathy limited to the treatment of Jen's kids and keeps up the side eye over Jen's denial of any knowledge of what was going on. It's a tightrope that I'm hoping Heather can walk...

Yeah... I wonder what I would do if i were in the same spot... I did find the comparison to Heather's divorce to be interesting... Getting a divorce is not nearly as problematic as potentially stealing money and committing federal crimes

[bosawks]

It was funny how desperate Lisa was to believe that Whitney and Heather are consumed by thoughts of Lisa Barlow.

Counting Lisa Barlows instead of sheep.

It was so ridiculous that Meredith actually had movement in her face.

[bichonblitz]

17 hours ago, Marley said:

I can’t with Jen. She’s such a lying crazy person. There’s no way her husband didn’t know something was going on with her businesses.

I was wondering about that. He was too calm eating his Popeye's and being so supportive of her. He knows she's nuts and almost divorced her last year. Of course he was on camera so there's that. I would like to know where he stands now. 

[laprin]

4 hours ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

 

I found this, don't know if it's been posted before, but it looks like Coach's salary significantly increased in 2018, so depending on how long she's been doing this, maybe he really didn't know.  His salary from 2018 on is nothing to sneeze at, so I can see how he just thought she was spending so much because they had a lot more to spend.  

Do we know how long she's been doing her shady stuff?

ETA: I hope this is ok to post.  It's public information on the utah.gov site.  

Jen once bragged she was spending $50k/mo. Also, they are easily paying $10k per month in rent. No way, Coach Shah believes his salary comes close to covering what she spends. Now, she may have lied and said the designer pieces were rented or gifts, but he knows Jen has to be involved in something. He didn’t even look like he believed her when she said she was innocent. 

[princelina]

12 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Where is the money to buy all of this stuff coming from if not from the congregation of your church?!? I mean, isn’t that why most religions the head of the church leads a meager, pious life because the only money coming into the church is from the parishioners, and they use that money primarily to help the less fortunate? As an agnostic (aka atheist but not pushy about it), I probably know less about the inner-workings of a church than I do launching a beauty brand, but these are all common sense practices, right?

 

6 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

Frankly, Mary's church model is not that unusual, especially for those preachers that preach "prosperity gospel" (ie. faith, positive speech and donation to the church will increase your material wealth and guarantee your place in heaven). She's just really bad at it, but if you want examples of people that have worked this particular scam successfully, look at Joel Osten, Crefflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Ken Copeland, etc.

As a rule, congregations have a budget and the pastor's salary is part of that budget.  It is based on yearly expenses, and some churches have "pledges" at the end of a year (people fill out a card estimating their weekly/monthly giving for the next year) to help in planning.  Based on what we've seen/heard about Mary's church they could probably only actually afford a part-time pastor if they were doing things properly.  Things like housing in the budget/pastor's salary will differ based on where you live and how much houses cost, etc, and are not necessarily "meager" because they have to live in the community.  In the case of my current pastor, they host newcomer luncheons a couple weekends a month, youth group and other groups and while their house is not luxurious, it has a nice dining and family room and yard for those things.  Those preachers you mentioned like Joel Osteen with giant megachurches and tv shows have gotten that way by preaching things people want to hear - "sow this seed and God will reward you".  It sounds to me like Mary's preaching is more along the lines of "Give to me or go to hell" which does not seem to be the ticket for creating a huge popular church 😄. Things like pastor's insurance is typically also in the church budget/salary package.  Having parishioners over to do maid/handyman work at the pastor's house, or mortgaging their houses to pay for surgeries, is something I've never heard of and I've been involved in proper Christian churches for all of my 54 years!  From what I recall, Mary's grandma had money by owning businesses that were not church related (that explains that mysterious house in Indiana, where I think she came from originally 😄 ). I wonder if she was rich first and then decided what she needed was followers, so she started up that little church afterwards.  And then it's one thing for them to know she's rich, assume she's been "specially blessed" and come clean her house - it's a whole other thing to have Mary on tv, showing off her hoarding closets, with the prices of the gifts she gives her wealthy girlfriends, and wonder why on earth you mortgaged your house to pay her bills!

 

3 hours ago, JLaw said:

Yeah... I wonder what I would do if i were in the same spot... I did find the comparison to Heather's divorce to be interesting... Getting a divorce is not nearly as problematic as potentially stealing money and committing federal crimes

I think it's more about knowing how it feels when all of your friends turn their backs and shut you out.  Since we are watching these things after the fact while the ladies are doing it in real time, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt that they don't know all we know when they are filming.  

[amarante]

5 hours ago, JLaw said:

Yeah... I wonder what I would do if i were in the same spot... I did find the comparison to Heather's divorce to be interesting... Getting a divorce is not nearly as problematic as potentially stealing money and committing federal crimes

I think Heather wasn't just getting a divorce - she was essentially divorcing her entire past and the Mormon Church. 

I don't think she has ever explained the exact circumstances but I would imagine that their must have been a major schism between divorced Heather who drinks and isn't an observant Mormon and all of her friends and a lot of her family. As I recall in the initial episodes she explained that she was descended from Mormon "royalty" and so quite a bit different than a suburban Joe and Jane divorcing but essentially still living their same lifestyle but maybe dividing some friends.

Of course in most people's eyes leaving the Mormon Church isn't a criminal and/or completely immoral act and most people (outside of Mormon fanatics) would have no problems associating with an ex-Mormon versus people who would have difficulty not judging someone who ripped off old vulnerable people like Jen.