TV Tropes: Love 'em or Loathe 'em

[kiddo82]

Every Zombie movie ever*:  a member of your squad will suffer a non-lethal bite but know it's a matter of time before he turns.  He will sacrifice himself to a pack of zombies to slow them down and save the rest of the crew in a tight situation.  In a less frequent situation, he will shoot himself then and there.  

*I've never actually seen The Walking Dead, but this has happened in at least 28 Days Later, Train to Busan, 2004's Dawn of the Dead, and The Crazies.  I don't remember if it happened in World War Z, to be honest.

Edited October 30, 2020 by kiddo82

[Shannon L.]

2 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

I don't remember if it happened in World War Z, to be honest.

Something happened to him that made him worried that he might turn.  He'd seen someone else turn and thought to count out how long it took, so when he was afraid it would happen to him, (they were on a tall building) he yelled at his family to stand back and he stood on the edge counting until he was sure he was safe.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Shannon L.

[smittykins]

9 hours ago, Blergh said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't men who insufferbale, insecure jerks who complain about meaningless things called 'Kyles'?  

I’ve also seen “Chad.”

(No offense intended to any PTVers named Chad.)

[kiddo82]

3 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

Something happened to him that made him worried that he might turn.  He'd seen someone else turn and thought to count out how long it took, so when he was afraid it would happen to him, (they were on a tall building) he yelled at his family to stand back and he stood on the edge counting until he was sure he was safe.

I don't remember that but I do remember when he cut off the woman's hand to prevent the infection from spreading and it worked.  I don't think I've seen that approach in other movies/TV shows.

[magicdog]

12 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I don't like the whole "Karen" thing because it continues the implication that a woman who stands up for herself is inherently "bad". Yes, most of what the so-called "Karens" complain about are trivial and fickle, with their strength being a mere front for their own insecurities, but there's no need to "genderize" this trope. Lots of men can also be insufferable, insecure jerks who complain about meaningless things.

I totally agree!  There have been times when you need to stand up for yourself when some one screws up or correct an error or if necessary report bad behavior by staff.  I tend to let things slide depending on how important it is or circumstances surrounding the problem.  However it’s not fair to be labeled a Karen if they’re trying to get fair treatment.  Karen’s will whine about the water being the wrong temperature in a restaurant while non-Karens discuss legit poor service (lazy waitstaff vs overwhelmed waitstaff).

[Kromm]

5 hours ago, magicdog said:

I totally agree!  There have been times when you need to stand up for yourself when some one screws up or correct an error or if necessary report bad behavior by staff.  I tend to let things slide depending on how important it is or circumstances surrounding the problem.  However it’s not fair to be labeled a Karen if they’re trying to get fair treatment.  Karen’s will whine about the water being the wrong temperature in a restaurant while non-Karens discuss legit poor service (lazy waitstaff vs overwhelmed waitstaff).

I get it. But I think it's more than that. A key component of Karenhood seems to go beyond standing up for yourself and requires creating a public scene. It's inherently a public expression of power (or at least PERCEIVED power). 

[DearEvette]

40 minutes ago, Kromm said:

I get it. But I think it's more than that. A key component of Karenhood seems to go beyond standing up for yourself and requires creating a public scene. It's inherently a public expression of power (or at least PERCEIVED power). 

Yeah, the trope is based in power and entitlement and more recently, white privilege.  A Karen isn't a mean girl (different trope) or a Evil Diva (another trope) or Rich Bitch (yet another trope).  Just being strident or pushy or standing up for yourself doesn't make you a Karen.  To be a Karen you first have to be very aware of your protected status as a white woman.  And then you have to weaponize that status.  You know you can belittle staff or question a person of color for being someplace you don't believe they belong (like their own front porch).  If questioned or pushed back a Karen will immediately call for authority (which she automatically knows will back her up no matter what) or break down in tears thus making herself look the victim when in fact she is always the one that initiated the conflict.    The trope is most often effectively  when be played in tv/film for satire/parody comedy.  But IRL a Karen can be literally life threatening.

[Annber03]

6 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

And then you have to weaponize that status.  You know you can belittle staff or question a person of color for being someplace you don't believe they belong (like their own front porch).  If questioned or pushed back a Karen will immediately call for authority (which she automatically knows will back her up no matter what) or break down in tears thus making herself look the victim when in fact she is always the one that initiated the conflict. The trope is most often effectively  when be played in tv/film for satire/parody comedy.  But IRL a Karen can be literally life threatening.

When my mom worked at a Pier 1 store, she dealt with a couple women like this one night. They came in right before the store closed for the evening and began looking around in a way that indicated they were planning to be there a while, and my mom kept trying to politely tell them the store was closing. 

But they didn't listen, and actually got mad at her about this, and pulled the whole "I'm calling the manager!" bit. They also went so far as to talk about how they had a ton of money (this was an area with a lot of rich people) and could sue or whatever nonsense like that. My mom finally managed to get them out of the store, well after closing time, but by then she'd missed her bus home and had to take the late one. Needless to say, when she got home, she was NOT in a good mood. 

Anywho, yeah, when I think of "Karen"s, I think of people like those customers. And I had to deal with a few like that when I worked retail, too. I think anyone who's ever worked customer service can point to their own "Karen" experiences. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Annber03

[SVNBob]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

To be a Karen you first have to be very aware of your protected status as a white woman.  And then you have to weaponize that status.  You know you can belittle staff or question a person of color for being someplace you don't believe they belong (like their own front porch).  If questioned or pushed back a Karen will immediately call for authority (which she automatically knows will back her up no matter what)

For an example that made the news: the white woman with an unleashed dog in Central Park who called the police on an African-American man who just in the park watching birds and asked her to leash her dog per the park rules.  She was a total Karen.  Luckily, the police realized that and did not do anything to the bird-watcher.  She, however, is being prosecuted.

[Luckylyn]

On 10/30/2020 at 11:35 PM, SVNBob said:

For an example that made the news: the white woman with an unleashed dog in Central Park who called the police on an African-American man who just in the park watching birds and asked her to leash her dog per the park rules.  She was a total Karen.  Luckily, the police realized that and did not do anything to the bird-watcher.  She, however, is being prosecuted.

The only reason the birdwatcher didn’t get in trouble in my opinion is that he video taped the incident and could prove the version of events she was telling 911 was a lie.  It’s a fascinating case because she was so secure in her privilege that she lied to 911 about being threatened while aware she was on camera. 

[VCRTracking]

I love when an established star has a new show and a co-star who they worked with in a previous popular work appears as a guest star or cameo and there's a cute wink to the audience. Example: Christopher Lloyd guest appearing on SPIN CITY as Michael J Fox's old mentor and Fox says upon their reunion "Wow seeing you is like stepping back in time!" Lloyd responds "The past is prologue Michael. It's time to look...to the future!"

[DoctorAtomic]

The bird lady from the park got fired from her job I think. 

[Mabinogia]

18 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The bird lady from the park got fired from her job I think. 

I know I wouldn't want my company associated with her. If she lied to 911 I wouldn't trust a thing she said and would not want her dealing with my clients/money/info/anything. 

[Blergh]

On 11/1/2020 at 9:11 PM, VCRTracking said:

I love when an established star has a new show and a co-star who they worked with in a previous popular work appears as a guest star or cameo and there's a cute wink to the audience. Example: Christopher Lloyd guest appearing on SPIN CITY as Michael J Fox's old mentor and Fox says upon their reunion "Wow seeing you is like stepping back in time!" Lloyd responds "The past is prologue Michael. It's time to look...to the future!"

Having an occasional wink to the audience: fine, but having ham-handed dialogue shoving every possible bit of 'classic dialogue' into   more contemporary productions gets to be a bit of a groaner IMO.

 

Case in point: A Very Brady Renovation  (2019)seemed to make sure that EVERY single episode had as many 'classic' Brady Bunch lines shoved in as often as possible by every single member of the surviving cast from their 70's iconic show. IMO, that was cute the first time or so but got to be rather annoying before too long- inasmuch as I doubt the cast members kept thinking of ways to shoehorn that dialogue into their offcamera convos during the past 45 years since the earlier show ceased production!

    I mean, I get that the cast has grown to consider themselves a family down the decades (even if they haven't always gotten along) and I get that the more contemporary show was the chance to revive  dormant performing careers for most if not all of them. However,  all the 'Mom always says don't throw balls in the house' ,etc quotes just wound up jarring the viewers from being able to give the doubt's benefit that the latter production (if not the cast themselves) could have possibly had any spontaneous dialogue with each other. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Blergh

[DoctorAtomic]

I loved the Brady Bunch movies. Gary Cole and Shelley Long absolutely killed it. 

[VCRTracking]

A variation is when a show makes reference to an actor's previous role. Like on Third Rock From The Sun, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and his friends have formed a rock band and are playing in the garage when John Lithgow comes in demanding they stop and goes into an angry rant against rock music and dancing similar to his reverend character in FOOTLOOSE, stamping his hand on an amp like it was a pulpit!

Edited November 3, 2020 by VCRTracking

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

A variation is when a show makes reference to an actor's previous role. Like on Third Rock From The Sun, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and his friends have formed a rock band and are playing in the garage when John Lithgow comes in demanding they stop and goes into an angry rant against rock music and dancing similar to his reverend character in FOOTLOOSE, stamping his hand on an amp like it was a pulpit!

If the 'previous show/incarnation' Easter egg is done subtly, shrewdly and sparingly, that's great (e.g. William Frawley's final TV appearance being his Lucy Show cameo after which Lucy Carmichael exclaims 'He reminds me of someone I used to know' capped with him being billed as 'Our Own Bill Frawley').

But more than one or two, then the eggs get rather runny, stale and unimaginative- especially if they just get shoehorned into the show too often and too awkwardly (which A Very Brady Renovation was guilty of ). 

[Silver Raven]

One of my favorites was when the family on the Rosanne show were watching Bewitched, and the actress who played the second Becky said her favorite Darren on Bewitched was the second one.

 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

On 10/30/2020 at 9:34 AM, kiddo82 said:

I don't remember that but I do remember when he cut off the woman's hand to prevent the infection from spreading and it worked.  I don't think I've seen that approach in other movies/TV shows.

In The Walking Dead they have cut off an appendage to save the person - hands, legs.  It's become a bit of a trope, cut off the bitten part before the infection spreads.  

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

A variation is when a show makes reference to an actor's previous role. Like on Third Rock From The Sun, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and his friends have formed a rock band and are playing in the garage when John Lithgow comes in demanding they stop and goes into an angry rant against rock music and dancing similar to his reverend character in FOOTLOOSE, stamping his hand on an amp like it was a pulpit!

I also loved the moment on that show where William Shatner came on as the Big Giant Head, and he was talking about how awful his flight was, 'cause he kept seeing a monster on the wing of his plane.

Lithgow, as Dick, then goes, "Same thing happened to me!" 

[meep.meep]

On 10/30/2020 at 3:22 AM, kiddo82 said:

Every Zombie movie ever*:  a member of your squad will suffer a non-lethal bite but know it's a matter of time before he turns.  He will sacrifice himself to a pack of zombies to slow them down and save the rest of the crew in a tight situation.  In a less frequent situation, he will shoot himself then and there.  

*I've never actually seen The Walking Dead, but this has happened in at least 28 Days Later, Train to Busan, 2004's Dawn of the Dead, and The Crazies.  I don't remember if it happened in World War Z, to be honest.

It did not happen in the best zombie movie - Shaun of the Dead.  In that one, Shaun's mother does get a non-lethal bite but she doesn't tell anyone because she doesn't want them to worry.  Far from sacrificing herself, she dies and resurrects at the worst possible moment.

[DoctorAtomic]

They made reference to the character change on Spartacus too. Alas, tragically. 

[Rockstar99435]

On 11/3/2020 at 7:53 AM, VCRTracking said:

A variation is when a show makes reference to an actor's previous role. Like on Third Rock From The Sun, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and his friends have formed a rock band and are playing in the garage when John Lithgow comes in demanding they stop and goes into an angry rant against rock music and dancing similar to his reverend character in FOOTLOOSE, stamping his hand on an amp like it was a pulpit!

They did stuff like that all the time on that show. There was another episode where Lithgow's character hit a squirrel with his car and then did the whole "Give my daughter the shot!" scene from Terms of Endermeant at the vet's office. It was great!

[VCRTracking]

Another good one is in an early episode of "Everybody Loves Raymond" Ray's dad Frank played by Peter Boyle is dressed as Frankenstein's monster for Halloween. Boyle played the monster in Mel Brooke's YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN in 1974!

Debra's dad and Ray's father-in-law was played by Robert Culp who reunited with his old I SPY co-star Bill Cosby on "The Cosby Show" as Cliff Huxtable's old Navy buddy "Scott Kelly". That name is taken from the names of Cosby and Culp's I SPY characters.

[Raja]

My favorite homage to an actor's previous work would have been the Stargate SG-1 pilot episode when Captain Carter is telling Colonel O'Neill, Richard Dean Anderson, that they will "MacGyver" a fix to make the stargate work with a smirk on her face.

[Bort]

I was always fond of the joke in Frasier during the final season when he encountered his ex-wife (recast as Laurie Metcalf from Emma Thompson) where she lamented boredom about her Nanny G career all, “Do you know what it’s like to play the same character for TWENTY YEARS!?”

[Ubiquit0us]

I'm not sure how to describe this, but have you ever noticed how when someone gets into trouble while texting or sending email that the recipient gets a partial message? Wait, what? Nothing is sent until you push "send"! 

On 8/5/2014 at 3:04 PM, ganesh said:

For sci fi shows: the alien/human hybrid. 

On a related note, "star children".

[Ubiquit0us]

On 9/6/2020 at 10:25 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

The part of that trope that always makes me laugh (because of how stupid it is) is how easy it is to figure out exactly how much drugs to give someone to knock them out (and usually quickly). No one ever gives too little so that they don't work or too much so that the person OD's. 

How about when you get a train of people deciding to drug someone, resulting in everyone simultaneously saying "What happened? I only gave him one dose!" Wink-wah!

[Trini]

"And they died, . . . happily ever after" - is NOT the romantic trope* some writers think it is. Romeo & Juliet is a tragedy not a romance story. It irks when it's presented as a "happy" ending.

 

*Not really sure how much of a trope it is, but I've seen it enough times.

[Spartan Girl]

The “I cheated on her, but she’s the asshole for not taking me back” trope needs to stop.* NOW.

*This applies to all genders, since female cheaters have used this too

[Luckylyn]

Dolly Parton plays an Angel has become a trope.  She’s played an Angel at least 3 times.  There was a tv movie years ago, and episode of Designing Women and the current Netflix Christmas musical.  She’s awesome so this works perfectly in my opinion.

[Shannon L.]

28 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

Dolly Parton plays an Angel has become a trope.  She’s played an Angel at least 3 times.  There was a tv movie years ago, and episode of Designing Women and the current Netflix Christmas musical.  She’s awesome so this works perfectly in my opinion.

I think Dolly Parton actually is an angel. 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

I think Dolly Parton actually is an angel. 

So the trope here would be actors who play themselves in every role? lol

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

Dolly Parton plays an Angel has become a trope.  She’s played an Angel at least 3 times.  There was a tv movie years ago, and episode of Designing Women

To be fair, in that one she played a guardian movie star, not an angel.  🙂  "No, I'm just a movie star.  I don't think I'd make angel if I died."

Edited January 3, 2021 by Bastet

[Luckylyn]

12 minutes ago, Bastet said:

To be fair, in that one she played a guardian movie star, not an angel.  🙂  "No, I'm just a movie star.  I don't think I'd make angel if I died."

Lol, I didn’t remember that. 

[ratgirlagogo]

Late to this topic, have you all seen the 1987 film Wings of Desire in which the character Peter Falk plays is himself, the movie/TV star Peter Falk, who in the movie is an angel who chose to become a mortal?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wings_of_Desire

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093191/

[Wiendish Fitch]

While griping about the show Bones on the Unpopular TV Opinions thread, here's a trope I'm sick of:

Some hyper-logical, detached-from-humanity character will smugly wax philosophic about how love isn't real, it's just a chemical reaction, and humans don't need it, blah, blah, blah (Temperance Brennan has done this, and I'm pretty sure Spock has, too).

All right, then, maybe they're right. Maybe love is "just a chemical reaction". hey, you know what else is a chemical reaction?

Practically everything that happens in life, you self-aggrandizing, ignorant losers! The fact that something is a chemical reaction doesn't make it any less real! Love is a natural emotion and instinct humans possess, you don't get to proclaim it doesn't exist or is just an illusion! For God's sake, if you don't believe in monogamy or think Valentine's Day is a corporate sham, just say so and be done with it!

[supposebly]

Even illusions are just brain chemistry, ask any schizophrenic with paranoid illusions.

I often wonder what TV writers think of smart people. Apparently, in TV land, only stupid people have emotions and the smart people spend the run of a TV show to figure that out. 

Some smarts they have.....

[Kel Varnsen]

On 11/3/2020 at 3:44 PM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

In The Walking Dead they have cut off an appendage to save the person - hands, legs.  It's become a bit of a trope, cut off the bitten part before the infection spreads.  

Have any of those hands or legs ever come to life and tried to attack their former owner? If not it is even more reason why I am glad I never got into The Walking Dead

[Spartan Girl]

Without spoiling WandaVision for anyone that hasn’t watched it yet, it brilliantly subverted the sitcom trope of the annoying neighbor who always barges in and ingratiates/shoehorns their way into the main characters’ lives.

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Without spoiling WandaVision for anyone that hasn’t watched it yet, it brilliantly subverted the sitcom trope of the annoying neighbor who always barges in and ingratiates/shoehorns their way into the main characters’ lives.

I'm curious, but I'm not going to watch the show. Put it in spoiler tags.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Anduin said:

I'm curious, but I'm not going to watch the show. Put it in spoiler tags.

The reveal that WandaVision’s nosy neighbor Agnes is really evil witch Agatha Harkness, who has been controlling their sitcom universe for her own gains

[Anduin]

48 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Thanks!

[katie9918]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

  Hide contents

The reveal that WandaVision’s nosy neighbor Agnes is really evil witch Agatha Harkness, who has been controlling their sitcom universe for her own gains

 

UGH.

[Ambrosefolly]

In light of "A Teacher," which does work hard to make the female teacher/male student as creepy as it is and deserves to be, I am even more grossed out by the romantic tone that Dawson's Creek took with Pacey and his English teacher and that Buffy episode "I Only Have Eyes For You." I found the relationship in "I Only Have Eyes For You" super creepy when the episode premiered, and I was in the target demographic at the time (middling teenager), now as an adult I am really disturbed by the teacher/lover's behavior and resent the show treating it as some big romance. There is reason that out of all the taboos out there that have been accepted into the mainstream like gay and interracial, society seems to be finding female teacher/male student even more unacceptable. 

[Blergh]

10 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

In light of "A Teacher," which does work hard to make the female teacher/male student as creepy as it is and deserves to be, I am even more grossed out by the romantic tone that Dawson's Creek took with Pacey and his English teacher and that Buffy episode "I Only Have Eyes For You." I found the relationship in "I Only Have Eyes For You" super creepy when the episode premiered, and I was in the target demographic at the time (middling teenager), now as an adult I am really disturbed by the teacher/lover's behavior and resent the show treating it as some big romance. There is reason that out of all the taboos out there that have been accepted into the mainstream like gay and interracial, society seems to be finding female teacher/male student even more unacceptable. 

And the sad thing is that it  does NOT have to be that way. The Corn is Green is but one example of a female teacher who was   enthralled with a male student's mind and potential but had ZERO romantic or lustful designs on him ( .  I don't mind if there's some vague schoolboy crush on a female teacher- as long as both parties make it clear that it's going to go nowhere whatsoever while the primary goal of the teacher helping a student to realize their full potential get depicted (e.g. John-Boy's crush on his first teacher Miss Hunter on The Waltons) but to turn any and all cases of students with great academic potential and teachers  wanting to help them realize it into something automatically creepy and icky is just wrong, IMO

[Wiendish Fitch]

Can we please abolish the Slow Clap? Be it sincere or even ironic? I realize my hands aren't clean (I've sarcastically used the "Slow Clap" in my past posts), but now I'm officially over it. It was used in the latest episode of WandaVision and, yes, ironically, and by an antagonist, but I don't care!

Make it stop! Now!

[WinnieWinkle]

On the topic of age inappropriate relationships if it isn't appropriate male to female it's not appropriate female to male either!  I am specifically referencing the school boy older woman romance here.  The first two examples that come to mind are teenage Frasier and his music teacher and middle schooler Charlie Harper and (it would seem) almost every teacher he encountered.  It is not funny - but it also seems to be some male fantasy that TV writers put into their shows and no one blinks an eye.  If a middle school girl had had a sexual relationship with a teacher it would not have been played for laughs!

[Wiendish Fitch]

14 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

On the topic of age inappropriate relationships if it isn't appropriate male to female it's not appropriate female to male either!  I am specifically referencing the school boy older woman romance here.  The first two examples that come to mind are teenage Frasier and his music teacher and middle schooler Charlie Harper and (it would seem) almost every teacher he encountered.  It is not funny - but it also seems to be some male fantasy that TV writers put into their shows and no one blinks an eye.  If a middle school girl had had a sexual relationship with a teacher it would not have been played for laughs!

Agree 110%. Adam Sandler used this double standard to absolutely ghastly, repugnant effect in That's My Boy. I only ever watched a review of this vile thing, and I honestly wanted to shower afterward. Seriously, WTF were the writers thinking?!

Oh, they weren't. Silly me.

[Ambrosefolly]

6 hours ago, Blergh said:

And the sad thing is that it  does NOT have to be that way. The Corn is Green is but one example of a female teacher who was   enthralled with a male student's mind and potential but had ZERO romantic or lustful designs on him ( .  I don't mind if there's some vague schoolboy crush on a female teacher- as long as both parties make it clear that it's going to go nowhere whatsoever while the primary goal of the teacher helping a student to realize their full potential get depicted (e.g. John-Boy's crush on his first teacher Miss Hunter on The Waltons) but to turn any and all cases of students with great academic potential and teachers  wanting to help them realize it into something automatically creepy and icky is just wrong, IMO

I should have clarified the "hot for (female)teacher trope." 

In the same vain, October Sky, did a really lovely job of the female teacher/male student relationship, since her only role was teacher. 

There was an episode I think in the first season of Law & Order SVU, where the victim was a woman that a let's just say highly charged personal life: random trysts with men, sex clubs, Tinder type stuff. She as also a school teacher that was real attentive to her students. She would tutor them privately and spent extra time. After an exhaustive investigation SVU found out...none of her relationships with her students were any way romantic or even inappropriate. She was a teacher that cared a lot and didn't allow her personal life effect her professional one. 

It is fine and even normal for a student to develop a crush on a teacher. While I have issues with this for a different reason, it is understandable for a teacher to want to cultivate the talents of a students for whatever reason. Heck, I don't think it is crazy for a teacher to find a student attractive. It is you see them cross that line and treating it as a forbidden love affair, that it perfectly healthy to have that much of a power imbalance between two people or for a grown woman to have a relationship with anyone whose body and brain are still rapidly changing and growing. 

When discussing those type of relationships, we always have to say "if the roles were reversed," because while men are  attracted to late teen/early twenty girls, if they put themselves in the position of the father of a teenage girl that is being seduced by her high school teacher, they would want to pound him into the pavement. (The mother would be equally horrified). If it was the father of a teenage boy, he might give him a pat on the back for playing out one of his fantasies. The blow back is being lead by women who see these types of women the same way they see the same type of men. 

Now watching Pacey's first storyline on Dawson's Creek, I feel like I am watching an instructional lesson on grooming. Forget "The Crown" or "The Muppets", Dawson's Creek should have the disclaimer in front of their episodes. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Ambrosefolly