S17.E09: Week 9

[Thumper]

Exhausting is right.  I feel like he is acting.  Drama!!!!

[saber5055]

Funny, but I don't care one whit whether Greg stays or leaves or Katie gets a Neil Lane ring or is able to put thoughts into words. That's if she even has any thoughts.

Greg: "I'm not happy here any more."

Me: "Neither am I."

LOL. Greg is DONE so he's leaving. Katie is DONE so she's leaving. Hey guys, you could share a cab to the airport!

Edited August 3, 2021 by saber5055

[TVMovieBuff]

1 minute ago, DEL901 said:

If someone spills their guts like Greg did, even if they were just an acquaintance, you would hug or comfort them.   She gave him nothing.   

He doesn't really want comforting. He just wants out. Gone.

[Kiss my mutt]

I’m starting to wonder if this has been his exit strategy all along now. 
Where are Tay Tay and Kay Kay to talk Katie down? 

[DEL901]

So, Greg figured out how to maximize screen time (and publicity) without having to get down on one knee.  He even avoided the fantasy suites.  

I don’t know why I was surprised by her response…when Michael told her about his son needing him, all she talked about was how him leaving impacted her…no sympathy for the motherless boy missing his dad. 

[tennisgurl]

I get that Katie doesn't really want to tell any of the guys that she loves them yet, as I think the whole concept of dating all of these guys is still weird for her, but if she had given a little bit more validation of his feelings, other than "just" saying he's the frontrunner, this probably wouldn't be exploding in a big drama fest. Or maybe Greg is just over it, this whole thing is so weird and happening so fast, it feels like we missed a few scenes. 

Katie is certainly better at playing the game than some previous Bachelorettes *cough Clare cough* but she is really stumbling at the end by holding back so much with the guys. 

[saber5055]

Note to sound editors: Insert stock recordings of snot crying while Katie is nowhere to be seen. (Because she's not really crying.)

Worst.Season.EVER.

[TVMovieBuff]

I don't know if the 'rules' have changed, but in the earlier seasons the Lead was told not to tell any of the contestants he/she loves them. That is why it was such a shock when Ben Higgins didn't pick Jojo Fletcher. He had said he loved her. 

Maybe they changed the rules, and told then to say what ever they want.

[DEL901]

This is another week she doesn’t need to give out roses.  Is this a top 4 record?

eta. And I almost forgot when she asked Andrew to return, he said no.  

Edited August 3, 2021 by DEL901

[Kiss my mutt]

Dudes jumping ship right and left but I wouldn’t be surprised if, in true bachelor fashion, he comes back to make the “most exciting bachelorette finale ever!”

[JenE4]

Katie says “the fucked up part” is that “I said I loved this guy in interviews.” Well then why didn’t you tell him?!?! Jeez, send him the tape or something if you can’t tell him directly.

[Kiss my mutt]

Awww, a montage of Greg and Katie’s special moments. Makes me think it is him. Barf

[saber5055]

OMG, the show is doing an ending In Memoriam clip to Greg, like he died or something. TV dramas always do that for a character who's been killed off in that episode, show that guy's scenes from prior seasons. I guess the same thing happened on this scripted drama, Greg killed himself off. Nicely done, show editors, for putting the final cap on Greg's scripted role this season.

[Diana Berry]

30 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

I might be alone in this, but I’m Team Greg here. He has a point. He’s pouring his heart out and crying and saying how much he loves her, and she’s just looking at him and saying, “I like the way you look.” What?!? It’s true that she expects the guys to “tell her where their heart is at” but she can’t do the same? That’s bullshit. Plenty of leads have said I love you at this point—sometimes to multiple people, and maybe Katie doesn’t want to do that, but if it really is him, just tell him you love him!

The thing I’ve liked about Katie is her tears always felt real.  When someone was pouring out their heart her tears and emotions felt real.

Something was way off in that conversation.  It was like he was talking to a stepford wife.  No she doesn’t have to say I love you but she can reassure him.  At that moment, I felt like dude she’s just not into you.  I guess the other two guys tickles her fancy more.  Give props to the guy for not going through the fantasy suite.

[saber5055]

5 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

This is another week she doesn’t need to give out roses.  Is this a top 4 record?

Budget cuts. No roses, no cocktail-party booze or food. It's a win win for the ABC Budget Department!

[tennisgurl]

Oh with this sadness montage, you expect to see an "RIP Greg" sign flash across the screen. Katie and Greg both managed to somehow be both really dramatic in this and not dramatic enough. Lots of crying and running and begging for the other person to do whatever it is they want them to do, but are just not willing to commit to the game enough to just see it through to the last rose ceremony.

This is so weird, I can easily see this all being cooked up melodrama just in time for Greg to come back for the big finale just in time to sweep Katie off her feet. Or both of them realize that they were being stupid by giving up on a person they were really into because they couldn't wait a week (Greg) or couldn't just give a bit more emotionally (Katie). 

[TiredMe]

Nice acting Greg. He is such a douche and you can’t convince me he did not plan that entire exit. I hope he’s not the bachelor. He is Ben Flapjack levels of unattractive.

[TVMovieBuff]

Guys really go nuts when their fathers die. I have seen it over and over. I would bet money Greg had an anxiety attack overnight, and realized "What the hell am I doing? I don't know this girl well enough to feel this extreme over her, and oh gosh, DAD!"

Katie didn't touch or hug or comfort Greg because his attitude was radiating "DON'T TOUCH ME!"

[Dr Epi]

Goodbye to Greg and his insecurities. She all but told him that he was the one and in the same way he felt that she did not hear him, he did not hear her.

Slussian protocol: he had to have known that she cannot tell him the things he told her. The Bachelor/ette almost always have to balance needs of show, other contestants, etc. Greg could only think of his needs and when they were not met he stomped off like an adolescent and then tried to make Katie the bad guy.

Good thing that Katie found out now how Greg handles adversity. His sister was right - his insecurities are one of his biggest flaws. 

[Mean Jeanne]

Bottom line, she did absolutely nothing to persuade him not to leave. Would it have been so hard to say something like “Greg please stay, I don’t want you to leave” but she just sat there and as he said, gave him nothing.

[Jillibean]

Regardless of how genuine I think Greg was or wasn't, he told her some extremely emotional things in an extremely emotional way, and she responded with barely any changes in facial affect, a pause, and, "I love looking at you." She loves LOOKING at him? In my opinion she took something emotional from him (again, genuine or not) and turned it into something surface-level or physical. Imagine pouring your heart out to someone and getting a response basically telling you that you're good-looking. That and the fact that he was talking about the death of his father and her response was a strange almost-smile made it a very WTF moment for me. 

I almost felt like she wasn't actually listening to him and then went "oh shoot he's expecting me to say something now," like when you're daydreaming during a conversation and realize it's your turn to speak. The sort of indulgent half-smile and vague statement just seemed very "let me try to just...respond to whatever he said even though I was just mentally planning out what I need to pick up from CVS when I get home."

[laschifosavita]

44 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

You are not alone. As I said, I read so much about how this went down so I came in ready to watch and look at every nuance and second. And yeah sorry, I don't know if Katie was drunk or high but yeah something was weird with her in that convo. Before Greg's mood shifted, I literally said to my television, "um, this is kind of awkward. He's spilling his guts and she's not saying anything." It was just weird. 

I don't blame the guy for being confused and feeling like she was checked out. How do you sit there with someone pouring their heart out like that and there's nothing from your end. Katie's focusing on how she couldn't say it back because there are other guys still there. But plenty of leads have not returned an I Love You but they still have something resembling a joyous reaction and look like they're in love or really into the person in that moment. 

Honestly, Katie seemed like she almost had a deer caught in the headlights response to Greg's pouring his feelings out to her and telling her how much he loved her. And then yeah, I understand Greg's frustration that after that response to him fully bawling and bearing his heart, she says he's the one that's pulling away.

It was the blank stare that bachelorettes give the guy they aren't into that gets eliminated on a group date when they get too emotional and attached too soon. I felt embarrassed for him. I do not think that I could have pretended not to see that and gone on with the show.

[truthaboutluv]

46 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

The thing I’ve liked about Katie is her tears always felt real.  When someone was pouring out their heart her tears and emotions felt real.

Something was way off in that conversation.  It was like he was talking to a stepford wife.  No she doesn’t have to say I love you but she can reassure him.  At that moment, I felt like dude she’s just not into you.  I guess the other two guys tickles her fancy more.  Give props to the guy for not going through the fantasy suite.

SO MUCH THIS. I too wondered if the scene had been edited or something. Because her reaction was odd. And I felt like you could see when the wheels turned and shifted in Greg's brain as he watched her just continue to be so emotionally removed from a moment that was from his end, so emotional and vulnerable. 

Like you said, no, the lead doesn't have to say I Love You too for fear of leading people on in case they don't pick them. But I have seen many reactions from other leads where they didn't say I Love You back but you saw how happy and how in love they seemed with the person in that moment. And again, it would have been one thing if all Greg said was that he loved her.

But that he was also talking about how his father's death affected him and brought him to this point with his journey and Katie herself having lost her father and still, girl just sat there with this, "thank you for this lovely moment" face. I completely get where Greg was coming from in saying the next day to her that he felt like she was not present and that it was like he was pouring his heart out to a wall. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by truthaboutluv

[funnygirl]

I find it hilarious that Justin basically made it to F2 because the others left. (I like Justin, I just don't think him and Katie's "connection" is all that deep.) 

Edited August 3, 2021 by funnygirl

[Starlight925]

What a gaslighting, sociopathic mother F'er.

Even with Katie's non-response to his statement, a guy who was truly there for her would simply talk to her about it.  

The coldness that came over Greg's face, the absolute turn of his entire being, even when she ran outside, literally on the ground, trying to hug him, was chilling.

This took me back to a place I was in, almost 20 years ago, with a now ex-husband.  Almost verbatim.  

Created a reason to show what a great guy, so in love, so in awe of her, that he can't stand that she doesn't show the exact right emotion, in the exact right way, at the exact right time.  I felt the hairs on my arms stand up as Katie goes into defensive mode, trying to put the right words together, begging him, trying to appease him.  Katie, playing rewind on every word in that prior conversation, wondering what she did wrong, how she could have acted/spoken/reacted differently, anything, anything, to stop Greg from changing into this cold, hard brick wall.

So she didn't say the exact right thing, in that moment.  "I love looking at you" was what she came up with.  The perfect thing to say?  No.  The best thing to say?  Of course not.  But in that little moment, she said one small sentence, that has Mr. Gaslighter flipping the entire relationship into the trash can.

I was actually around Katie's age when this happened to me.  

Edited August 3, 2021 by Starlight925

[Haute Messe]

Katie is one of the most vapid B’ettes this franchise has had. She’s all about the bachelor handshake, kissing  and “chemischtry”. I haven’t heard much of any substance out of her. 

So Blake isn’t sure if he loves her but is 100% certain he’s going to propose and she’s the One. I liked that his sister was calling him out on his “love” for Clare and Tayshia. It was so nice of him to introduce all you Americans to maple syrup. Pretty sure there is loads of it made in Vermont. And there are tons of moose here but I don’t know anybody who has ridden one, but I have seen them wandering around beside the highway in less urban areas - likely not in Hamilton.

Justin’s mom sounded exactly like the “Grande Dame” Karen Huger from RH of Potomac, which is pretty close to Baltimore. Hmmm. He is definitely the most handsome of the three and seems too nice for this. 

Greg - oy. Seems like he has some maturing to do. He sure did get all the looks in that family, although  Mom is attractive. I wonder if he suffers from depression and hope this doesn’t break him if he’s not picked. He is pouring his heart out and she tells him she just loves looking at him?? Deep as a puddle.  Poor guy is just so afraid of rejection that he is bailing first.

And here comes the sniffling and sobbing. I actually felt kinda bad for her. 

This season has been a dud. I’m not proud to say that I’ve been finding F’Boy Island way more entertaining. 

[Kiss my mutt]

Is it bad that I felt nothing during the 20 minute Greg and Katie breakup and I started laughing at the montage footage? because that’s all I got. 

[Arkay]

Wow. I’m more on Greg’s side in this drama, but I do see a drop of Katie’s side.

Here is Blake, telling his family that “love is a word which will be used,” while Greg is bleeding out emotionally, telling Katie how much he loves her and she makes him happy for the first time since his father died.  Quite the difference. And of course, Greg did see Katie and Blake on their date, which I suppose made him less confident that he was her one and only.

I see Katie’s side  in which she promised herself she’d only say “I love you” to the last man standing. I also see the flaw in Greg where he may be the type who needs constant reassurance. Still, If she did indeed love Greg, she had to see that he truly needed more from her. She was in fact on Bachelorette autopilot, while he was done with all aspects of the show and just wanted to know that she was in love with him.

Justin is an also-ran in this whole thing, but my favorite characters on this episode were his parents, for having the dignity to refuse to show up. We didn’t even see them on Justin’s phone.

[tinkerbell]

3 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Picture this, gang: Greg is all verklempt and crying and upset because he's not getting HIS WAY and hearing what HE WANTS TO HEAR from Katie while he's still filming this franchise. He pulls a Full Mesnick while just watching Katie with another guy. This dude is WAY too needy. Imagine getting married to him and the toaster breaks. OMG, call the divorce lawyer.

Better he leaves now before he has to propose -- which HE KNOWS he will have to do -- and his chances of being Next Bachelor or getting that acting gig he's auditioning for is gone.

He's EXHAUSTING me just watching these few minutes, crying about WHAT HE NEEDS.

What a jerk. BYE. Begone, Greg. You SUCK.

I didn't see it the same way. I thought Katie came across very cold and distant. Telling Greg that things will continue to be hard, was a clear indicator that either she wasn't going to choose him, or that she was going to sleep with the other guys before she chooses.

He was right that she was acting like she didn't care. He was pouring his heart out, and she was thinking of being the Bachelorette with 3 finalists to choose from, rings and proposals, roses, etc.

ETA: I also think that Greg finally saw Katie for who she is, and realized he had been sucked into the mass hypnosis of this show, the way 30 guys can be convinced that Katie is the most wonderful human on the planet. She's actually kind of shallow. You could see the realization in his eyes, that he had allowed himself to think he was in love.

Edited August 3, 2021 by tinkerbell

[TheFinalRose]

wow. Greg was right to go. Something changed in Katie. It was obvious she was checked out. Greg wasn't asking for reassurance that he was the final one ... he was asking her why she was SUDDENLY so distant/robotic/unresponsive to him that night. And she didn't help the situation by telling him how hard it was going to be. Katie probably didn't even understand what was going on in her own heart/mind but she was definitely not the same to him. I don't think she loved him because she said she was "falling in love with him" but if she loved him she wouldn't have shut down like that in the face of his vulnerability.

[call me ishmael]

I’m not on team Greg.  She told him that she told his family that it was going to be hard but at the end it would be worth it.  What would make it worth it for him if she wasn’t going to pick him?

[Irlandesa]

During the whole fight my only thought was "so this is how assholes get women to marry them."  

Katie has done nothing but offer him affirmation. He got the FIR.  He got the first one-on-one right away. He got a second. And even though Katie was the bachelorette, their one-on-ones had the odd vibe where he acted like he was the one who needed to be wooed as if he were the lead.

Katie didn't tell him she didn't want him to leave?  Oh yes she has.  Multiple times she brought up how she wanted him there and was afraid he'd leave.  And when he said he didn't know how to read how she felt, she told him. 

Was "I like looking at you" what he wanted to hear?  No.  But I don't think she was cold.  She was looking at him with a lot of affection and holding his face. I legit think she just loved being in his presence and said as much.  And when he went to talk to her the next day, he absolutely shut down everything she was trying to say when she wanted to say what her experience was.  He didn't even want to hear it. Her POV had zero value to him.

I keep seeing people guess what Katie should have done to make Greg feel better.  The one person who doesn't really have an answer to that question is Greg.  He hints that he wanted her to tell him she loved him, even though I think she has a good reason why she's holding that back (if she even does love him yet) and in the next breath says it's not what he needed.  He needs assurance that he's going to be the last one standing but when she pretty much tells him he's her number one that's not good enough?

Did he say he wanted to leave with her (I don't recall hearing that.)  Did he propose to her?  Nope.  Just said he could see it.

He kept hinting at things he wanted but then denied that's what he wanted.  He was opening and shutting the door at the same time. Katie didn't react exactly as he wanted and instead of communicating what he needed from her, he punished her.

9 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

he was asking her why she was SUDDENLY so distant/robotic/unresponsive to him that night. And she didn't help the situation by telling him how hard it was going to be. Katie probably didn't even understand what was going on in her own heart/mind but she was definitely not the same to him. I don't think she loved him because she said she was "falling in love with him" but if she loved him she wouldn't have shut down like that in the face of his vulnerability.

Everything you describe about Katie here is exactly what Greg did as well.  When he didn't like Katie's response to his declaration, he shut down and pulled away but refused to acknowledge that's what he was doing even when Katie asked him about it.  Katie told him it'd be hard because it does get hard on this show for the F1.  There are steps she agreed to follow. Steps HE agreed to follow.

And then when Katie was in tears at his feet, on the ground telling him that if he left, it'd be over her, he just walked away.

 

 

 

[chocolatine]

Something's rotten in New Mexico! There are no coincidences on this show. Greg saw Katie's date with Blake because the producers wanted him to see it. And the way the evening portion of Greg's date escalated, it definitely looked like parts were cut out, probably the parts where producers took Greg aside and asked leading questions like "Don't you feel terrible that Katie didn't reciprocate your declaration of love?" I agree with those say that he needs a lot of reassurance, but I also feel the producers really took advantage of that. And Katie's confused reaction was probably because she was taken aback that the producers were so openly fucking with him.

Edited August 3, 2021 by chocolatine

[phlebas]

It doesn't matter who she ends up with because she's going to try to ride a real moose and she will get stomped into a puddle. Moose are big and GRUMPY.

 Thanks Blake!

[phlebas]

8 hours ago, DEL901 said:

If someone spills their guts like Greg did, even if they were just an acquaintance, you would hug or comfort them.   She gave him nothing.   

I agree. I don't think that excuses Greg's behavior though.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

Is it a Bachelorette requirement to be light enough to leap onto a guy while hugging him? Its so strange and annoying to watch.  Greg seems  bent out of shape over Katie- but rest assured, he could find a girl just like Katie at an apple picking orchard, Starbucks, Panera, or strip mall.  I loved the final montage scene of Greg as if he died in a tragic 1 on 1 fishing date with her or something.  

Edited August 3, 2021 by Hip-to-be-Square

[Lamb18]

10 hours ago, SassyCat said:

Also for the RCMP  aka Royal Canadian Moose Police

I don't remember Dudley DoRight riding a moose.

[nlkm9]

1 hour ago, Hip-to-be-Square said:

Is it a Bachelorette requirement to be light enough to leap onto a guy while hugging him? Its so strange and annoying to watch.  Greg seems  bent out of shape over Katie- but rest assured, he could find a girl just like Katie at an apple picking orchard, Starbucks, Panera, or strip mall.  I loved the final montage scene of Greg as if he died in a tragic 1 on 1 fishing date with her or something.  

OMG ENOUGH OF THE BACHELOR HANDSHAKE!!!! I swear she must be paid by each one she does. nauseating!!!

[Koalagirl]

From what I’ve read, this argument went on for several hours. It was edited down to maybe 15 minutes?  So we don’t really know exactly in what order things were and weren’t said.  

[tinkerbell]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

  He needs assurance that he's going to be the last one standing but when she pretty much tells him he's her number one that's not good enough?

I get what he was saying.  He was searching for a genuine connection, and she was telling him that he was going to be the winner of the "game."  I think in that moment he realized that the Katie he was in love with wasn't the same person as "Bachelorette katie."

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Dudes jumping ship right and left but I wouldn’t be surprised if, in true bachelor fashion, he comes back to make the “most exciting bachelorette finale ever!”

My brain automatically read the bolded in Chris Harrison's voice.

[phlebas]

I desperately wish she had said "Thank you for sharing that" when he said he loved her.

Then she could have run off and grown an enormous ugly beard.

ETA: Or called him Thomas

Edited August 3, 2021 by phlebas
found another option for Katie

[TomGirl]

1 hour ago, Koalagirl said:

 

From what I’ve read, this argument went on for several hours. It was edited down to maybe 15 minutes?  So we don’t really know exactly in what order things were and weren’t said.  

 

IKR??  The whole thing doesn’t make sense to me.

[legxleg]

My guess is that when Greg said all that about how she fills a hole in his heart she *wanted* to say she loved him, but was too in her head about how she had decided that she wouldn't say that until the end, and she can't give it away, and she has to balance the show and leave enough doubt that the audience doesn't know, but also express affection just not *too* much, so she just got awkward and stiff. Greg interpreted that as 'oh she doesn't like me, we aren't on the same wavelength,' which is understandable. But I think she also feels a lot of responsibility as the lead to actually make a show, when maybe what she should be doing is concentrating more on herself and her relationships. I don't think that makes her a sociopath or shallow - I mean, it *is a show*. I can't fault her for acting like she's on a love game show when that is where she is. But I can see how it's hurtful for Greg, if that's not where he is mentally.

I also think that it was so annoying at the beginning of the fight when Katie was asking what's wrong, and he kept being like "I don't know, why do you think I'm sad? Why do you think that is?" and making her guess instead of just telling her. Communicate, dude. I have never been a Greg fan, and a part of me is like, of course she's thinking about who wins the show, THIS IS A LOVE GAME SHOW. You signed up for this! But if he's actually caught feelings and it's all tied up in his grieving for his dad, then that's a lot and I do sympathize. 

It's so obvious that he's the one she wants to end up with. There's no way she's going to go get engaged to Blake or Justin after all that, especially with the final montage of their greatest hits. So my guess is she pulls a Colton and ends the show in a desperate attempt to win him back, and either it works and they are happily ever after at the After the Final Rose thing, or it doesn't and she tries to be all 'independent woman who has learned about herself' about it with hints that mayyybe they'll get together later off-show.

Edited August 3, 2021 by legxleg

[Alexander Pope]

14 hours ago, Lilac2000 said:

Both of them are just...blergh. If she really wants him to stay all she has to do is look him directly in the eye and say "Don't leave. If you love me, trust me and just stay." I think Ashley said basically that to JP...just trust me. Yeah, she got caught up in the moment and let Ben F get down on one knee before she stopped him but JP was her choice fairly early on and she let him know that in a few different ways without actually saying it. 

So both these jerks are not in it "for the right reasons" methinks. (Says the person watching this and only this scene the whole season.)

I do think she said to him that he was "very close" and that they were "almost there" and in essence to hang in there.  But I agree that this is a both-sides suck situation.  She was weird and withholding and a "good girl" following some nonexistent rule about not saying you love someone till the end (a rule that many have broken--Ben told both Lauren and JoJo he loved them).  He is a needy narcissistic baby who should have watched the show before he applied.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Alexander Pope
edited to make more sense

[Jax7917]

The whole Greg thing reminded me of Ryan gosling in the notebook . “ what do you want ?!! God Damnt what do you want ?” ( especially because they look alike to me . 
 

I have no idea what Greg wanted from Katie . She was pretty much telling him he was the one but she’s not allowed to say it . She kept saying I want you here and the process is almost done , just be patient . Does he not understand that the entire premise of the show is to date and lead on multiple people until it gets down to 1? You either say I love you to all of the remaining guys or to none of them that’s usually how it works . 
 

That being said , I found him really hot throughout all of this 😂 . I’m not sure if he’s acting ( isn’t that his “occupation “or am I wrong ?) or if he was genuinely hurt , but that’s the type of emotion I need in a man  . That, mixed with him being really hot is just what the doctor ordered . 

[Alexander Pope]

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

During the whole fight my only thought was "so this is how assholes get women to marry them."  

Katie has done nothing but offer him affirmation. He got the FIR.  He got the first one-on-one right away. He got a second. And even though Katie was the bachelorette, their one-on-ones had the odd vibe where he acted like he was the one who needed to be wooed as if he were the lead.

Katie didn't tell him she didn't want him to leave?  Oh yes she has.  Multiple times she brought up how she wanted him there and was afraid he'd leave.  And when he said he didn't know how to read how she felt, she told him. 

Was "I like looking at you" what he wanted to hear?  No.  But I don't think she was cold.  She was looking at him with a lot of affection and holding his face. I legit think she just loved being in his presence and said as much.  And when he went to talk to her the next day, he absolutely shut down everything she was trying to say when she wanted to say what her experience was.  He didn't even want to hear it. Her POV had zero value to him.

I keep seeing people guess what Katie should have done to make Greg feel better.  The one person who doesn't really have an answer to that question is Greg.  He hints that he wanted her to tell him she loved him, even though I think she has a good reason why she's holding that back (if she even does love him yet) and in the next breath says it's not what he needed.  He needs assurance that he's going to be the last one standing but when she pretty much tells him he's her number one that's not good enough?

Did he say he wanted to leave with her (I don't recall hearing that.)  Did he propose to her?  Nope.  Just said he could see it.

He kept hinting at things he wanted but then denied that's what he wanted.  He was opening and shutting the door at the same time. Katie didn't react exactly as he wanted and instead of communicating what he needed from her, he punished her.

Everything you describe about Katie here is exactly what Greg did as well.  When he didn't like Katie's response to his declaration, he shut down and pulled away but refused to acknowledge that's what he was doing even when Katie asked him about it.  Katie told him it'd be hard because it does get hard on this show for the F1.  There are steps she agreed to follow. Steps HE agreed to follow.

And then when Katie was in tears at his feet, on the ground telling him that if he left, it'd be over her, he just walked away.

 

 

 

This is absolutely spot-on and I am now team Katie! though I do think she is too much of a rule follower.

[chocolatine]

5 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

That being said , I found him really hot throughout all of this 😂 . I’m not sure if he’s acting ( isn’t that his “occupation “or am I wrong ?) or if he was genuinely hurt , but that’s the type of emotion I need in a man  . That, mixed with him being really hot is just what the doctor ordered . 

Really? I find guys like him exhausting. In real relationships, even very long-lasting ones, people aren't mind-readers and don't always give you the response you want. I can't imagine being with someone who would pick a huge, come-to-Jesus argument every time I'm having an off day and am not 100% in tune with his feelings. 

[Hip-to-be-Square]

6 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

That being said , I found him really hot throughout all of this 😂 . I’m not sure if he’s acting ( isn’t that his “occupation “or am I wrong ?) or if he was genuinely hurt , but that’s the type of emotion I need in a man  . That, mixed with him being really hot is just what the doctor ordered . 

I was oddly attracted to Greg's crying!  I've dated some emotionally unavailable guys in the past, so to see Greg with his sexy five o'clock shadow and his nice eyes well up in tears- it was a sight to behold!  I did see an ex cry once when his favorite sports team lost, and it did NOTHING for me! 😄.

[jackjill89]

I'm wondering if after the Clare thing the producers imposed some guidelines on Katie. Her refusal to say she loved him, and her prompts for him to trust the process, etc. were old school bachelor/ette to me. I do believe that without completely saying he was the one, she said it. Thing is, it is a show, getting roses and moving forward are the way they'll end up being together. What she was saying was giving him reassurances without coming right out and saying "you're the one."

I feel like there were huge chunks taken out of this whole thing because I though Greg sounded like a crazy, manipulative gaslighter. It's like he flipped a switch. I didn't see Katie acting remote or being disinterested at all. When I was listening to him I had no idea what he wanted from her either. The timing was so weird. I could see this a few weeks ago, but the family meeting seemed to go well and they both seemed happy and then... bam. 

Between editing and producer interference, we never will really know what transpired, but what I saw was Katie telling Greg he was the one without specifically saying that and Greg deciding he was done with the game. I think Katie dodged a bullet because I think this is what Greg does. Whoever said he's emotionally exhausting is right.