S01.E04: The Nexus Event

[tkc]

9 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Ravonna was ice cold in not even saying what was so important they had to "prune" a child. If she really doesn't remember that's worse because minor infractions get you just as reset as apocalypses. 

That reminded me of that scene from The Fugitive with Tommy Lee Jones and Harrison Ford:

Richard Kimble: I didn't kill my wife!

Samuel Gerard: I don't care!

[dwmarch]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

Which means there must, in fact, be loads of alternate timelines out there, which are close enough to the sacred timeline not to register, at least for a while. I wonder just how long an alternate timeline can run parallel before it triggers an alert?

Yes, it was explicitly called out in this episode that an alternate timeline is only pruned if and when it goes too far off course. As for the answer to your question, I'm hoping it's at least seven seasons.

[Zonk]

2 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

I'm hoping it's at least seven seasons.

and a movie!

[arc]

1 hour ago, IWantCandy71 said:

As opposed to Sylvie, who was killing folks willy nilly.

TVA Hunters, who would all have killed her if they could. There should be some moral leeway for hunting your hunters.

[ProudMary]

1 hour ago, Zonk said:

I think that he loved her. But probably not without any ulterior motive. He understood that them actually loving one another or even just somebody (remember last episode they talked about how they never had anything real, ralationship wise), could break the sacred timeline in an instance and that would have either freed them or at least provoked a reaction by the real time keepers.

Where do I get all this from? That look of realisation right before he turned back around and continued talking to Sylvie. You guys, I think Tom Hiddleston might be a good actor. ;D

I just re-watched the episode and was coming here to post exactly this. That look on Loki's face was as if everything Mobius had said to him in their final interrogation clicked. Regardless of whether or not it's love, a union of the two Lokis creates a Nexus event powerful enough to bring down the TVA. Not to mention the potential addition/team-up of all the Lokis we met in the mid-credits scene.

[Zonk]

49 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

Regardless of whether or not it's love, a union of the two Lokis creates a Nexus event powerful enough to bring down the TVA.

I actually think it's more about the love than it being two Lokis. These two people who never had anything real and were destined to die without ever having found anything real, suddenly finding something real in each other? Well, that's just breaking the timeline like an egg on pavement.

Also it's Disney. This kinda has to end with true loves kiss. ;D

Edited June 30, 2021 by Zonk

[WildPlum]

3 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Mid-credits scene: I realize he's credited as Boastful Loki, but as he's the only one of the four without Loki horns, couldn't that character actually be a variant Thor?

Also, while we don't know when that scene is, it certainly looks as if Loki has landed in Central Park as that's definitely a destroyed Stark/Avengers Tower in the background to the right.

I need it to be next Wednesday now!!!

I like the fact that Kid Loki put the horns on his pet lizard instead of wearing them himself. Mobius? Dead? Nahhhh

Also I feel like I deserved am end-credits scene for sitting through (*whistles* fast forwarding through, in reality) 10 FULL minutes of beginning and ending credits.

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by WildPlum
added

[Wynterwolf]

4 minutes ago, Zonk said:

I actually think it's more about the love than it being two Lokis. These two people who never had anything real and were destined to die without ever having found anything real, suddenly finding something real in each other? Well, that's just breaking the timeline like an egg on pavement.

Right now, I'm leaning towards this too. It's more about them connecting through feeling the beginnings of emotionally intimate and fulfilling love for each other (outside of any potential romantic/sexual attraction) that was setting all the warning bells off. But I think it also matters that the moment they were sharing happened outside of the TVA facility rather than inside it, because that's the only place it would potentially affect the timeline. 

[tkc]

4 hours ago, Zonk said:

I actually think it's more about the love than it being two Lokis.

Since this would be love for “self”, is this a manifestation of Loki coming to terms with who he is (a la his conversation with Sif), and learning to accept himself?

So the TVA claims to uphold the “Sacred Timeline”, and perhaps we had an initial impression that this meant the “correct timeline”.

However, isn’t it likely that the TVA represents the victors (not necessarily the “good guys”) of the so-called Multiversal War, and their activities now are just an on-going genocide against the possible inhabitants of any other timelines?

Edited June 30, 2021 by tkc

[SeanC]

So far this is such a huge improvement over the other MCTVU shows in terms of writing quality.  No superfluous B-plots or scattershot plotting to be found.

This episode further clarified how the timeline in this world works, in that the "sacred timeline" doesn't mean there's literally one reality, apparently there are a bunch of them constantly spawning but only some of them meet the approval of the Timekeepers.

[Sakura12]

Lady Sif wasn't expecting to see her, even as a time loop memory prison version. 

I don't know if Mobius is dead since Ramona did look sad. I'm thinking she just goes in the timekeeper elevator for show. She knows the real entity behind the curtain. That was so cold saying she didn't remember the nexus event that made them kidnap a child.

Mobius told Loki the feelings he has for Sylvie created a nexus event unlike any other. I think Loki was trying to bring down the TVA by confessing his feelings. Yes it's narcissism nexus event because for the first time he was thinking about someone else, even if it is a version of himself. So it's kind of self love. Lol he's learning to love himself. 

Sylvie has been been alone running from the TVA since she was a child. Did we see her kill any bystanders or was it just the Hunters? If it was just them then that is fair, with them it's kill or be killed. Loki killed innocent people. He also had his brother Thor to stand by him and that's what made him start to change. Sylvie had no one. The TVA erased everyone she ever knew and kidnapped her. 

[VCRTracking]

The people at Roxxcart we're all going to die anyway because it was an apocalyptic event. As I said she needed to get the devices to empty the TVA. There were multiple armed people after her and as far as we know she only has combat training and enchantmenting one person at a time. What she did was brutal but from a practical standpoint an effective way of taking them all out without risk to herself. They filmed their deaths like a horror movie with her as this faceless figure to make her seem like this scary threat to viewers but if it was filmed from her POV with the TVA being the menace we'd think she was being clever and resourceful.

Edited June 30, 2021 by VCRTracking

[Check Sanity]

12 hours ago, Featherhat said:

So they actually went there and started explicitly talking about a romantic relationship/feelings between Lokis on screen and Mobius mentioned the incredible narcissism in that.  I wasn't particularly surprised after the looks as Lamentis was about to end but I'm surprised it was explicitly referenced so soon, I thought there'd be a bit more subtlety than that for a few episodes at least. The end of Lamentis also reminded me of Jyn and Cassian at the end of Rogue One, not to mention still borrowing heavily from Doctor Who, I was getting extremely strong Tenth Doctor Era vibes especially with the music.

What few episodes? There's only 2 left, there's kind of no time for subtlety regarding that. 

12 hours ago, johntfs said:

What exactly was the point in taking the Loki and Sylvie to the robot Time-keepers for deletion for Ravonna or whoever was running the TVA?  Just to be evil?  I mean, I'd have figured that right after pruning Mobius Ravonna would have had Loki pruned right there.

Probably for whoever's ego of finally having caught them and to see who has been wreaking havoc for themselves (also ego related).

10 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

I still don't have tons of sympathy for Sylvie, nor do I think she's good for Loki. She's the worst parts of himself.

I mean, she burned people alive. And the worst part ? She apparently didn't have to, for things to unravel. If the show wants to put them together, fine, do it. But if Loki calls her amazing again, I'm gonna scream. Loki hon, you can do way better.

3 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

But all the murders got her nowhere.

All she had to do was kidnap one and get them to reveal where the timekeepers were. And she let that one live.

We also see her have no care over whether or not the civilians at Roxxcart whose bodies she used, lived or died.

And even if some of the killiing was necessary, lighting people on fire is a brutal way to do it.

First, as has been mentioned, she was murdering hunters who were sent to kill her. Killing all those teams was getting her access to more and more reset charger things and tempads, which she needed for bombing the timeline. Getting to the timekeepers was not the only part of her plan. 

All of those civilians during the apocalypses were going to die anyways. Everyone at the TVA are just as callous regarding those people and all the people where they delete timelines. Besides that, Sylvie grew up living in those apocalypses of course she'd have been desensitized to those people dying. 

As for the brutality of killing the hunters that were hunting her... she was surviving. She hasn't actually lived much of a normal life since she was taken for creating a nexus event. She's been in survival mode for most of her life and at some point decided to go on the offensive, unlike Loki, her actions aren't as selfish as he's been shown to be.
 

5 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm down with Loki/Sylvie, but I'd really like her to be like, uhh, I'm good. Not interested.

Loki needs to love himself before he can love others./therapy

When those Chuck E Cheese looking muppets showed up, that confirmed there's a wizard behind the curtain. I don't think it's Gugu. Miss Minutes? Never trust an animated clock.

I'm not entirely sure it's a romantic love. However, even if it is, Loki has been on a journey of loving himself and with that end credit scene, he may be getting a chance to love several versions of himself. 

I, too, am curious about Miss Minutes existence within all this... 

I'm also trying to parse Renslayer asking Sylvie to prune her. Whether she knows she'd just be mind wiped and reset. If wants to forget the things she knows or just doesn't want to deal with the consequences of failing so spectacularly in front of whoever is truly behind the TVA.

[Sakura12]

I just watched it again and I missed Mobius mentioning vampires. Is that our hint for Blade? 

I wonder where Loki is with the other variant Loki's. Is that where the TVA sends all the variants? 

Did Jamie Alexander get paid just to say the same few lines and pretend to knee Hiddleston in the balls. Lol 

[IWantCandy71]

3 hours ago, arc said:

TVA Hunters, who would all have killed her if they could. There should be some moral leeway for hunting your hunters.

Except she was doing things recently, just to purposely get their attention. She wanted to be hunted.

In theory, it was to find the Time Keepers.

Ironically, it didn't take killing them to get there. It just took kidnapping one, once. And touching her. No violence needed.

So no, I don't give her leeway for burning people alive.

[Sakura12]

Sylvie grew up alone in apocalyptic events so she's probably been desensitized to death. I can't imagine what that would've been like for a child. I mean there is a reason they cast Judith from the Walking Dead to play young Sylvie. Lol Loki grew up with a family and mother who loved him and he slaughtered people without remorse. She probably didn't need to kill them, but I can imagine she'd think of it as justice for killing every one in her entire timeline. 

To me it looks like Sylvie's nexus event could've been she was going to be good and not the goddess of mischief. We saw her playing as a Valkyrie and wanting to help the other variant in the TVA.

[VCRTracking]

50 minutes ago, IWantCandy71 said:

Except she was doing things recently, just to purposely get their attention. She wanted to be hunted.

In theory, it was to find the Time Keepers.

Ironically, it didn't take killing them to get there. It just took kidnapping one, once. And touching her. No violence needed.

So no, I don't give her leeway for burning people alive.

She also needed to get a device from each team to cause the timeline to splinter. If she could take down a bunch of armed TVA hunters through hand to hand combat every time she met them she would but she would eventually lose.  She wasn't just doing it to be a sadistic or for the kicks. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by VCRTracking

[cambridgeguy]

2 hours ago, Zonk said:

Also it's Disney. This kinda has to end with true loves kiss. ;D

Tell that to Wanda.  She and Sylvie can have a long conversation about who was dealt the crappier hand, whether or not their various actions are excusable, who has the better headpiece, etc.

[SnoGirl]

What if Sylvie’s nexus event is just that she’s a Loki? What if the Lokis are the only beings that figure out the TVA because they’re agents of chaos? They’re the complete opposite of the TVA, who’s orderly and rule regulated. What if past Lokis cause constant nexus events, and the TVA realized that they had to be taken out of the equation to keep a single timeline?

The TVA thinks the function of a Loki is to lose, (our) Loki thinks its to survive, but what if its really to be agents of chaos? The Lokis only lose because the odds are REALLY stacked against them. They’re really masters of the multiverse because they’re the ones created nexus events creating the multiverse? Becoming the ultimate power (our) Loki always seeks because it was what he was meant to be?

I love how deeply Loki feels for others when he makes a connection. Tears for Mobius, trying to make Sylvie feel better at the end of the world-what a giant softie when given the chance to be.

I’m still holding out hope for a Frigga cameo. I doubt we’d get Thor, but to see Loki who normally is getting the jump on Thor in the movies, start off on even footing because of his growth here (where they finished Ragnarok) would be sweet.

[Sakura12]

As a wise man once said it's either aliens, androids or wizards. Lol

 

[paigow]

19 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

As a wise man once said it's either aliens, androids or wizards. Lol

There must be a first-edition signed copy of The Hobbit somewhere in TVA storage

[swanpride]

3 hours ago, WildPlum said:

I like the fact that Kid Loki put the horns on his pet lizard instead of wearing them himself.

Are we sure that the lizard is a pet and not another Loki? Maybe he is the one who grew up with frog Thor? 

Anyway, apparently boastful Loki isn't a thing in the comics at all, so I guess other than kid!Loki (who we will naturally need for the Young Avengers...is anyone missing by now? I don't think so...the question is just if they do some sort of superhero school series with them, or if they are planned for the big screen. My money is currently on the former), they are just going wild with possible variant. And remember, there were a bunch we have seen which weren't there either. Are they still around or didn't they survive the place? 

One disadvantage of having Loki as protagonist of a show is that it is hard to buy the supposedly hard hitting moments. Like, I didn't believe for a second that Mobius was dead. I was all "okay, this is either some sort of elaborate plan (this Loki is the master of illusions after all) or the sticks don't really kill (something I suspected anyway, and which was confirmed when Rowena basically begged for getting hit with one). 

[Morrigan2575]

14 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah it says volumes of how much of a narcissist Loki is that he has feelings for an alternate version of himself.

Of course he does. I LMAO when Mobius called him on the epic level of narcissism involved...so freaking perfect.

Lady Sif! I jumped when she showed up, I've been a fan since Thor. I briefly wondered we'd got Lady Loki/Sif Variant. However, i liked that Sif was his tormenter.

I liked the flashback to Little Sylvie. It's funny when they showed her going through the robot machine I wondered why both Loki's questioned it and then wondered why they made a major deal out of deleting Robots. I guess there's some connection to the Time Keepers.

I was shocked when Mobius was pruned. I was more shocked when Loki was pruned. I'm glad they had the credits scene. I would not have been happy to wait a week.

 

[RobertDeSneero]

How old does Sylvia look when the TVA first comes for her?  I'm not good at estimating ages, so she could be 8 or she could be 12 for all I know.

What if the TVA seeks to prevent the offspring of two Lokis, so the nexus event that got the TVA after Sylvie initially was menarche and the activation of her uterus as a baby factory while the nexus event on Lamentis was the moment when Loki became romantically interested in Sylvie, bring the possibility of their coupling closer together?

Maybe the people who are behind the TVA are a bunch of Asgardian variants who fear offspring of two Lokis as the bringer of a multiversal Ragnarok.

[johntfs]

On 6/30/2021 at 6:17 PM, IWantCandy71 said:

Except she was doing things recently, just to purposely get their attention. She wanted to be hunted.

In theory, it was to find the Time Keepers.

Ironically, it didn't take killing them to get there. It just took kidnapping one, once. And touching her. No violence needed.

So no, I don't give her leeway for burning people alive.

I do.

Remember what happened to Loki when he was processed by the TVA in the first episode?  Stripped naked.  Stuck in prison garb.  Forced to sign something affirming that was "everything you've ever said."  Forced to walk through the machine that would painfully kill him if he did turn out to be a robot.  Then hauled before a judge for a show trial that would end in his death.

That all happened to child Sylvie as well.  Sylvie didn't have an Agent Mobius coming to take her someplace to talk.  She had to grab her own chance to escape.

Then she was hunted, never having a moment's peace until she reached a place where everyone died in an apocalypse. 

Then she had to go to another apocalypse.  Another event filled with desperate, despairing, frightened being quite a few of whom might have an attitude of "I should do whatever I want to whoever I want because we're all going to die anyway."  And she's still a child.  So that opens up some pretty ugly possibilities about what "growing up" entailed for Sylvie.

Oh, and her likely "crime" against the Sacred Timeline? Being a nice kid who celebrated another person's success (Valkyrie's) and felt compassion for others.

So given all that, those TVA fuckers kind of deserve to burn, don't they?

Edited July 4, 2021 by johntfs

[IWantCandy71]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

She also needed to get a device from each team to cause the timeline to splinter. If she could take down a bunch of armed TVA hunters through hand to hand combat every time she met them she would but she would eventually lose.  She wasn't just doing it to be a sadistic or for the kicks. 

Perhaps not.

But when Loki has more concern over humans than you do, you should seek help. You just might be a psychopath.

She had a "meh" attitude about the people whose bodies she was using at Roxxcart. When Loki asked if they would survive, she said "some of them". Which indicates she knows what she is doing is sometimes killing innocent people.

I don't have much sympathy for her. 

[johntfs]

7 minutes ago, IWantCandy71 said:

Perhaps not.

But when Loki has more concern over humans than you do, you should seek help. You just might be a psychopath.

She had a "meh" attitude about the people whose bodies she was using at Roxxcart. When Loki asked if they would survive, she said "some of them". Which indicates she knows what she is doing is sometimes killing innocent people.

I don't have much sympathy for her. 

That's your prerogative.  Disagreeing with you on that point is mine.

When asked if Azalea Guy was dead, she said "No.  They usually survive."  I suspect that Sylvie generally picks targets that will survive - unless they're TVA agents.

The thing to consider is those innocent people at Roxxcart are already dead whether Sylvie kills them or not.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

14 minutes ago, IWantCandy71 said:

But when Loki has more concern over humans than you do, you should seek help. You just might be a psychopath.

Does he, though? Yeah, he looked sad when Mobius got pruned, but...so what? Can we acknowledge that Loki has taken more than one innocent life, that if the TVA hadn't tracked him to Mongolia he might have gone right on doing what he does best, fuck up other people's days? It's weird conceptually to take issue with Sylvie for going on the offensive against the Minutemen, who targeted her when she couldn't have been more than eight or nine at the time, but not take issue with Loki when he's got just as much if not more blood on his hands. And for less reason. So big whoop, he's now decided that mind control is bad. Too bad he didn't know that before he whammied Alexander Selvig and Clint Barton. Or maybe he did know it and just didn't care, which is worse, IMO.

[IWantCandy71]

17 minutes ago, johntfs said:

That's your prerogative.  Disagreeing with you on that point is mine.

 

Okay.

7 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Does he, though? 

In this series so far ? Yes.

[Sakura12]

How can one have sympathy for Loki who has killed hundreds of people just because he wanted too, but not for a woman that was kidnapped as a child, had her whole reality erased and has been hiding in apocalypses from people who are hunting her. 

I know people love Loki, but let's not forget that he was a murdering psycho, that just recently decided he was a doing bad things. 

And to me it looked like she did feel bad for B15 when she told her the TVA kidnapped her too. 

[Abra]

There is so much 'what the fuck just happened?!' about this episode that I need time and at least one more viewing to process, but I have to say that this more-than-a-hint at a non-platonic Sylvie x Loki is very yuck to me. TheOfficePleaseGodNoNoNooooDotGif.

Seeing Mobius pruned hurt a lot. Thank goodness for the mid-credits scene (although I won't be totally sold on Mobius also being okay until I actually see him again, so thanks for the week of angst, show).

[kickingnames]

Gotta be honest — after Loki told Sylvie that it’s not that Lokis lose, it’s that they “don’t die” — I assumed the sudden nexus event was the imminent death of two Lokis in a place where they were supposed to die. I was surprised when Mobius assumed it was because Loki had feelings for Sylvie, and even more surprised when Loki decided to go with that idea. Guess we’ll see how that turns out.

Fun, fast-paced episode. It suddenly became very clear why Gugu Mbatha-Raw took what seemed like a simple secondary role — Renslayer’s living up to her name. I wonder how long and to what level she’s had a hand in the Great and Powerful Oz thing the “Timekeepers” have going on.

Hunter B-15 turned out to be awesome — her determination to know the truth and act on it ends up saving the very people she’d wanted been out to get. But I’m gonna need them to bring Mobius back asap. Not cool, man. I was a little bummed about his death until Loki got disintegrated. Surely he too can come back from wherever he ended up. 

[Zuleikha]

 Even if the Time Keepers were fake, she's not behind it all, though she was clearly not telling the truth when she said she didn't remember what was such a big deal that the TVA was after a child.

I think it's going to be something very, very small. I forget the exact Miss Minutes speech, but I remember that something akin to picking one restaurant over another can be sufficient to create a Nexus event. It's not that the event itself is always such a big deal... it's simply the variance from the Sacred Timeline.

I wonder if the show will ever explain how Lokis end up with their primary form. MCU Loki isn't even really a shapeshifter so much as an occasional user of illusions. It seems safe to assume that the Sacred Timeline is what we've watched in the MCU, so Tom Hiddleston Loki is the TVA approved version of Loki. 

[minamurray78]

Honestly, I´m not bothered by the units that Sylvie had to kill to get her plan in motion. For starters she was their victim. Abducted for a bollocks reason (what could a child have possibly done that would justify erasing her whole life and bring her to stand a phony trial?). These people victimized her. And ultimately they are also victims of the time keepers: stolen from their lives and brainwashed in order to do their nasty bidding. But just like in The Matrix and all of the minds still plugged to the system, those guards are the enemy until the time keepers can be brought down. They wouldn´t leave her alone. They would have pruned her on sight whenever they felt like it, like they did with that guy on ep 1 who didn´t get a ticket.

That scene with B15 really made me feel sad for her, realizing the life she had had and was gone. I hope she was only stunned during the fight and not really dead.

Someone else In the thread mentioned all the cup rings in Ravonna´s office had been done by Mobious, he just didn´t remember. I think this is a good theory: somehow he keeps discovering the truth but Ravonna has feelings for him so she keeps “erasing” him and bringing him to work for her, and every time it´s like they have to start over. That might be why she looked saddened to prune him.

I really want to see the TVA burned to the ground.

[SeanC]

58 minutes ago, Zuleikha said:

It seems safe to assume that the Sacred Timeline is what we've watched in the MCU, so Tom Hiddleston Loki is the TVA approved version of Loki. 

The “sacred timeline” seems to be all realities collectively that meet whatever the Timekeepers’ standards are.

[Amethyst]

 

17 hours ago, tv echo said:

However, I found it difficult to believe that Child Sylvie could get away. It seemed like they all just stood there for a solid minute before Child Sylvie used the stolen TemPad to open a Time Door and escape through it.

I had this exact thought.  I don’t know if it was poor direction or what, but Ravonna actually stood back when Sylvie grabbed the TemPad, and none of the guards made ANY attempt to stop her from escaping.  I was like "Why are they just standing there?"  I could see if Sylvie had a weapon or if she was running too fast for them to catch her, but nope, they just...let her go.  And she’s been on the run since childhood and no one has managed to catch her? 

Plus all that build up for Lamentis to go down in flames just for the TVA to conveniently show up to the rescue?  There was a slight implication that Loki and Sylvie would try save the people of Lamentis and Loki was actually worried about them.  But no, TVA shows up and all is well.  And unless it shows up next week, it doesn't look like anyone was being enchanted, despite Loki and Sylvie talking about it the whole episode.  I knew Loki and Sylvie would make it off the doomed rock but why focus so much on the planet just to axe it 5 minutes into the next episode?  Stuff like this feels like they're rushing things for the sake of plot, not logic.  They introduced a lot but don't have enough time to flesh it out.  I know it's not their fault, but this should have been 8-10 episodes.

I was really looking forward to seeing Wunmi Mosaku in this, and I'm disappointed that her character has been underdeveloped.  I wish they would develop HB-15 a little more, but there isn't enough time now.  I wish we got a memory scene from her.  

12 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm down with Loki/Sylvie, but I'd really like her to be like, uhh, I'm good. Not interested.

Same here.  I can believe Loki is overwhelmed with emotions right now and probably does have a crush on Sylvie.  But they have a great sibling dynamic and they should keep it that way.  I didn't get the vibe that Sylvie was romantically into him at the end, but she does care about him.

I think the Nexus event was that Loki and Sylvie do care for each other, romantic or otherwise.  But the TVA need Loki (in any form) to lose so others can win.  Isolation and bitterness have fueled Loki for so long, but caring for someone else enough to actually do better could absolutely cause the event.  Like Mobius said, Loki can be good if he wants to, TVA be damned.  That was a touching scene between them, sappiness aside.  Hiddleston and Wilson really do have great chemistry.

The Time Keepers really did look like Muppets.

That cliffhanger was just brilliant.  Must have watched it at least three times to make sure I saw them all.  The plot may be off, but I'm still invested.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Amethyst

[minamurray78]

Oh by the way, did anyone take a good look at the background behind the other lokis? I could spot what looks like a lampost and an old electricity pole amidst some destroyed biuldings. Some version of earth?

[thuganomics85]

I surprisingly did not have Lady Sif on the list of potential characters to make a cameo here, even it wasn't that far-fetched at all.  Sure, it was really just a memory time-looped version of her to torture Loki, but it still counts!  Glad to see her again.  I'm guessing with Blindspot finally done, Jaimie Alexander is going to be all about getting back into the MCU game!

Whelp, shit certainly went down in this episode!  Poor Mobius!  He finally has the wool pulled from his eyes, only to get "pruned" a few minutes later.  Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if this is far from his or Owen Wilson's last time on the show, but I imagine this will have an impact going forward.  Credit to both Wilson and Tom Hiddleston for selling everything enough so far that I can buy Loki truly being shaken and upset over watching it happen in front of him.  They were friends!  Or at least getting there...

Speaking of which, Hiddleston and Sophia Di Martino certainly have mad chemistry, but Mobius was hilariously on the mark about how falling for an actual variation of yourself has to be some grade A narcissism, which is saying something when the universe you are in also involves a guy who felt only he could "save the universe" by killing half of all living beings, a god who painted his war victories/crimes on a mural on the ceiling of his throne room, and Tony Stark.  That said, as for the whole debate wherever Sylvie is "good" enough for Loki due to all of her murders.... well, I have to imagine Coulson, dozens of SHIELD agents, and hundreds (thousands?) of New Yorkers can attest that Loki himself isn't exactly clean here.  Not sure why she should be held to a higher standard that him.  As great of a character he is and as good as Hiddelston is, no charm or puppy dog eyes will ever will ever take that history away.

While I wasn't surprised Mobius figured out the truth, I loved that Hunter B-15 did as well and also made a move against Ravonna and the TVA.  Hope we get more of her backstory soon.  Wunmi Mosaku did great work this episode.

I wonder what really happened to poor Hunter C-20.

I'm sure Ravonna will continue to dodge death for a bit, but I'm definitely curious to see what she has to say next episode, since it seems clear she knows a lot more than everyone else, even if she isn't running the show.  The fact that she took Young Sylvie was a good twist.  Her not remembering what Sylvie did to warrant getting taken back then reminded of that scene from the "so bad, it's almost good" Street Fighter movie, where after being told about what he did to one of the heroes' family (Chung-Li, played by Melinda May herself, Ming-Na Wen!), Bison, the main villain, simply shrugged and basically said "For you, it was important.  For me, it was just a Tuesday."

Since I doubt they were actually going to kill Loki on a show called Loki, I'm glad they already revealed what happened to him in the mid credits.  Still, I appreciated the irony of him getting "pruned" in the back.  But those were other Lokis he was seeing!  And one of them definitely had the voice of the awesomely epic Richard E. Grant?!!

Edited July 1, 2021 by thuganomics85

[swanpride]

Regarding what happened to Sif in the main timeline: She wasn't at Asgard when Ragnarok happened. If you take AoS as canon (like I do), because Loki was smart enough to send her on missions outside of Asgard (most likely because keeping her around would be too risky). Last time she was seen was in season 2 of AoS...so roughly around the time between Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron. 

[arc]

10 hours ago, WildPlum said:

I like the fact that Kid Loki put the horns on his pet lizard instead of wearing them himself.

I don't think that's a pet. I think that's another Loki. Meanwhile, the kid does have stylized horns mounted on the front of his hat.

I am curious about the TVA. Despite the fakery at its core, I think we can assume it truly is (one of) "the greatest power(s) in the universe". Loki probably accurately recognized the Infinity Stones, and back in the first episode we saw the Space Stone/Tesseract's glow diminish sharply as soon as it entered TVA space, consistent with it being unusable later in that episode. As well, the tempad technology really can teleport users anywhere in time and space. So someone actually made a very powerful agency and then installed a fake myth as its origin story. Why? What would someone who could do all that need to avoid the spotlight?

Edited July 1, 2021 by arc

[lynxfx]

Did I miss something or did they completely hand wave all of the damage to the timeline that Sylvie caused at the end of ep2? Nothing but a few guards running in ep3 and when we connect back to the TVA at the start of ep4 the timeline looks completely normal, no branches. I assume it was meant as a distraction but it sure got cleaned up fast.

[lawrbk]

On 6/30/2021 at 4:41 AM, Featherhat said:

She wasn't in Ragnarok because Jaimie Alexander had a schedule conflict IIRC and thus probably wasn't killed in Ragnarok. She's going to be in the next Thor movie apparently. 

She was on one or two episodes of Agents of SHIELD and was stuck on earth. So she wasn’t around for Hela to kill or to die in Ragnarok. Jamie’s Blindspot work hopefully spared her for some future appearances. :)

On 6/30/2021 at 6:41 AM, tv echo said:

Big episode...

So Sylvie was a variant who got away from Ravonna years ago, when Sylvie was a child and Ravonna was a Hunter. However, I found it difficult to believe that Child Sylvie could get away. It seemed like they all just stood there for a solid minute before Child Sylvie used the stolen TemPad to open a Time Door and escape through it.

Touching scene while waiting for Lamentis-1 to explode. Sylvie asked if what makes a Loki a Loki is that they "always lose." Loki disagreed and said that what makes a Loki a Loki is that they "survive." Then they're rescued/captured by the TVA.

Wow - a cameo by Jaimie Alexander as Lady Sif! (By the way, she was missing from and not even mentioned in Thor: Ragnorak. Will they ever explain that? Did she become a variant?) Loki confessed that he craves attention because he's a complete narcissist and he doesn't want to be alone.

Well-acted scene between Loki and Mobius, where they both feel betrayed. So Loki lied (I assume) to Mobius about meeting Sylvie as a child and hatching this plan together. Loki then told Mobius that the TVA workers are all variants with erased memories.

Sylvie showed Hunter B-15 a memory from her prior life. Mobius sneaked a look at Hunter C-20's interview on Ravonna's TemPad where she said that she saw her past memories and found out that she's a variant. Both Hunter B-15 and Mobius are on the Lokis' side now.

• Whoa - Ravonna pruned Mobius! But I don't think he's dead. 
• Double whoa - Loki and Sylvie were taken to the Time Keepers, who ordered them deleted. But Hunter B-15 tried to rescue them. 
• Triple whoa - the Time Keepers are not real. They're "mindless androids"!
• Quadruple whoa - just before Loki is about to confess something to Sylvie, Ravonna pruned Loki and he disappeared!

Mobius' comments about Loki falling for himself ("What an incredible seismic narcissist!") appear to be true. Also, Loki's creator and director confirmed Loki's falling in love with Sylvie in a Marvel interview.

Mid-credits scene! Loki woke up in a ruined city and wondered aloud if he's dead and in Hel. Someone replied, "Not yet. But you will be, unless you come with us." Loki then looked up to see more Loki variants. According to the end credits (full cast credits following guest starring credits, and also apparently in the German cast credits), they're Classic Loki (Richard E. Grant), Kid Loki (Jack Veal), who's carrying a crocodile wearing a Loki crown (another Loki?), and Boastful Loki (Deobia Oparei), who's carrying a hammer.

So is the TVA (or whoever's behind the TVA) seeking out and putting all Loki variants in this place, because they're destined to destroy the TVA?

We still don't know what Nexus Event led to Child Sylvie being deemed a variant.  We also don't know who created the TVA. Could it be Miss Minutes? 😉

FYI: Marvel's "Episode 4 Event Report" has been published.

I love that this view of the Lokis reminds me of Avengers when Loki comes to after his hulk beat down to see all the avengers looming over him and looking down. Kid Loki is even posed similarly to Hawkeye who was kneeling. Fits with the destroyed NYC and avengers tower. 

[Llywela]

11 minutes ago, lawrbk said:

She was on one or two episodes of Agents of SHIELD and was stuck on earth. So she wasn’t around for Hela to kill or to die in Ragnarok. Jamie’s Blindspot work hopefully spared her for some future appearances. :) 

She wasn't stuck on Earth, she was on missions on Earth, and returned to Asgard at the end of each one. That said, since she wasn't in Ragnarok, there's a good chance she was off on mission again when it all went down, and thus lives to fight another day.

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, lynxfx said:

Did I miss something or did they completely hand wave all of the damage to the timeline that Sylvie caused at the end of ep2? Nothing but a few guards running in ep3 and when we connect back to the TVA at the start of ep4 the timeline looks completely normal, no branches. I assume it was meant as a distraction but it sure got cleaned up fast.

I was wondering that. The end of ep 2 was "OMG the timeline has been completely bombed!" and we saw dozens of branches happening and then nothing. I guess the "minutemen" we see being called at the beginning of ep 3 got everything under control. But it was set up as a huge thing she was planning with the reset bombs. In the same way C-20 giving Sylvie directions to the Time-Keepers didn't matter either. 

[Llywela]

I suppose we have to bear in mind that Sylvie has been operating with limited information, so all her planning has been based on what she thought she was going to need, rather than what actually happened. She created a bunch of nexus events and stole all those reset charges, because she thought that creating an enormous distraction that would lure masses of minutemen away from the TVA would be an advantage to her when she attempted to infiltrate. It didn't work out that way, but I can see why she would have planned it like that. Similarly, getting information out of C-20 about where to find the Time Keepers when she reached the TVA ultimately proved useless, because the sequence of events meant the infiltration was a failure, and then when captured she was taken to them anyway, but Sylvie had no way of knowing that in advance, so again, I can see why she made the plan she did. Steal a bunch of reset charges to create a huge distraction, abduct a minuteman to interrogate for information, then infiltrate and attack. On the surface, it seems a reasonable plan. All that activity looks pointless only because it failed.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Llywela
typo

[Macbeth]

On 6/30/2021 at 4:35 AM, vb68 said:

I knew Ravonna was evil. She may not ultimately be in charge, but she sure ain't brainwashed. She knows what she's doing. The cool way she told Sylvie that she didn't remember Sylvie's nexus event as a child. Evil bitch.

And Ravonna certainly remembers.  Having a child steal your time-travel device and escape - that's pretty humiliating.

How the hell did she get promoted after that major mistake?

Edited July 1, 2021 by Macbeth

[tv echo]

This CinemaBlend article analyzed the mid-credits scene in detail and discussed, among other things, Boastful Loki and the background showing a destroyed Avengers Tower and NYC (as also noted upthread by @ProudMary and @lawrbk)... 

Quote

DeObia Oparei's Boastful Loki
Similarly, fans don't have much to go on, speculatively speaking, when considering what to expect from DeObia Oparei's Boastful Loki. (Fun fact: Oparei also played a character named Loki in Santa Clarita Diet.) Clearly he's further proof of variant diversity, and he's not quite as into eye-catching fashion choices as his cohorts are. The fact that he's wielding a Mjolnir-esque hammer makes it seem possible this variant is a take on the comic's Loki, God of Heroism and Truth from the AXIS arc in the comics.
*  *  *
Avengers Tower And All Of New York Got Destroyed In This Timeline
While the appearance of four new Lokis likely drew a lot of viewers' attention away from the surrounding scenery, the totally decimated New York City surrounding them provides some insight into what's going on here. Given what we know about the tactics Sophia Di Martino's Sylvie used to avoid being detected by the TVA, it would appear as if this multi-species quartet of variants have been hiding out in the aftermath of a major disaster, as opposed to living in the midst of everything going haywire. Seems like a way safer and quieter move, though it's not automatically understood why Sylvie couldn't have just gone this route instead of how she handled things.

In any case, Classic Loki and the Gang are quite obviously standing in the vicinity of a demolished Avengers Tower, but it's not confirmed exactly where the characters are in the overall timeline. Clearly, it's not the 1800s or anything, but is this the result of a alternate version of the Battle of New York where Thanos won? Or is this Armageddon-esque environment the result of some other event entirely? The cause might not be important for the future, as it will presumably be reversed/eradicated, OR it might be the most important factor in Phase 4. Fans will have to wait at least one more week to see how things shake out.

Subtitles in this article:
Loki Seemingly Revealed TVA Pruning Isn't Necessarily Deadly
Loki's "Hel" Reference
Richard Grant's Classic Loki
Jack Veal's Kid Loki
DeObia Oparei's Boastful Loki
Crocodile Loki
Avengers Tower And All Of New York Got Destroyed In This Timeline

Edited July 1, 2021 by tv echo

[paigow]

18 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

And Ravonna certainly remembers.  Having a child steal your time-travel device and escape - that's pretty humiliating.

How the hell did she get promoted after that major mistake.

If you kill your bosses and wipe the memory of everyone else....

End credits scene theory: All the Lokis are trapped in Alt!Apocalypse 2012 New York time loop - Iron Man failed to catch the nuke and the other variants have figured out a solution, but were missing the required variant - until now...

Edited July 1, 2021 by paigow

[Macbeth]

On 6/30/2021 at 7:05 AM, Spartan Girl said:

See, FATWS writers, THAT is how you do a sympathetic villain and a heroine that is actually a bad guy! Take some fucking notes!

Sif!!!!! So great to see her again! Although if Mobius really wanted to break Loki, he should have trapped him in a time loop of getting his ass kicked by the Hulk.

Yeah it says volumes of how much of a narcissist Loki is that he has feelings for an alternate version of himself.

Can we just skip to next Wednesday already?!

Edited July 1, 2021 by Macbeth

[Morrigan2575]

3 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I was wondering that. The end of ep 2 was "OMG the timeline has been completely bombed!" and we saw dozens of branches happening and then nothing. I guess the "minutemen" we see being called at the beginning of ep 3 got everything under control. But it was set up as a huge thing she was planning with the reset bombs. In the same way C-20 giving Sylvie directions to the Time-Keepers didn't matter either. 

I believe the plan was to create mass chaos forcing the minutemen to all be put into action, leaving the TVA with minimal guards. Sylvie's only plan seemed to be to kill the Time Lizards 😂 and the "bomb" was a distraction.

Back to the Loki's in the credits scene. Why are all the Loki Variants different? Is that what makes them variants? Not a choice/change in the timeline (like Loki escaping NYC) they're variants because they don't look like our Loki?  I have to admit I was hoping for more versions of Hiddleson's Loki in different forms/roles.

ETA: if we're going to get different actors playing variant Loki's can we get Matt Damon as an Fallen Angel Loki? 😃

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Morrigan2575