S05.E16: The Adirondacks

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I’ve gotten to the point that I like Toby, a lot more than I like Kate.  Husband’s job took him away for weeks at a time when we had two under 1, both with special needs.  Then we moved cross country where we knew no one.  You deal with it.  I’m also calling Kate out for getting mad at “I love my children, but.”  Every parent has felt that.  He tells you working is necessary for his emotional and mental health, and it makes you mad.  Nice.  Also calling BS that they are getting by on her part time teacher’s aide salary.  Must be the most expensive music school in the world, which frankly makes sense because parents of children with special needs always appreciate the extra costs they pay for their child to do the same thing as another family.
 

If the school is so important to her, then Kate could start one in San Francisco.  After all, in Pearson land her two months as an aide means she is certainly qualified to start one from scratch.

If Christina Braverman can create a school from scratch for her autistic son, I assume Kate can start a music school.  

For me the issue between Kate and Toby is not him taking a job in San Francisco, it's that he did not communicate anything to her.  He waits to tell her about the possible job until he has an offer and springs it on her when they do not have time to discuss it.  Toby sat at home for a week knowing that a recruiter was talking to a company about him, him possibly doing an interview over Zoom all without talking to Kate about it.  Realistically the longer you are unemployed, the more likely it is that you will have to look outside of your current area for work.  My dad did, but he and my mom talked about it.  I was 12 when he travelled for his interview and remember us as a family talking about what him taking this job meant.  Toby is taking a page out of the Jack Pearson playbook and unilaterally making decisions for his whole family without discussing it.  That should not have worked for Jack, it barely worked for Randall, and it appears it won't work for Toby.  

[Good Queen Jane]

I totally want to see an episode of Nicky and Miguel on a road trip together.

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, colorbars said:

I will say, though, given that the most futuristic flash forwards we’ve seen so far have been about Toby and Kate’s grown up kids, I do think the show has set up a way for them to end up together still. I can totally see them revealing in the premiere that while Kate and Toby aren’t together in 2030, Kate’s marriage to Phillip is already done, and then by the finale, we find out they’re together again in the distant future, with the details left up to our imagination.

I agree. The same signs that indicate that Toby is divorced from Kate in 2035 also say that he isn't married then. And he flew across the country to not only be there for his children, but to be there with Kate and her family. (I don't think Fogelman has any plans to kill the character based on his sister, nor seem to send a warning to the woman who will have portrayed her for six years.) 

It's good work on Kate's part to find a career, at age 40, in the helping profession that will help her son become a star. And a second husband, too. Shrewd. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

24 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

If the school is so important to her, then Kate could start one in San Francisco.  After all, in Pearson land her two months as an aide means she is certainly qualified to start one from scratch.

Kate and Toby can move to San Francisco and then Kate can have Christina Braverman tell her exactly how you open a school when you're completely unqualified and know not a damn thing about running a school!

5 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I was surprised when Kate said they both couldn't have full-time jobs, but I guess you live what you know. My parents both had full-time jobs, but Kate's didn't.

I thought she meant they couldn't both work because they can't afford to hire a full time nanny to watch the kids while she and Toby are both at work all day. That nanny share that Kevin offered is sounding even better now isn't it?

[Empress1]

47 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

As someone with a dead dad, I completely understood what Rebecca was saying there.  Jack is the Big Three's father and it is perfectly natural to wonder what he would have done on those big occasions.  It happens in my family.  Miguel is a great man, but he is not dad.

Miguel himself was probably wondering what Jack would have done on that day, or how he and Jack would have celebrated all those milestones together. I didn't see a problem with that either (as someone whose father recently passed).

[TV Diva Queen]

I did NOT realize that when Kevin was practicing the "Mawiwage" speech that it was a flash foward.  Cool.

I did love how Rebecca asked her multi-millionaire son to build her a house.  (I'm not being sarcastic)  My son is a college QB and in the back of my mind I have him in the NFL (more than likely not gonna happen, LOL) and I would make this request of my son and he would grant it.  

[cameron]

5 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Miguel himself was probably wondering what Jack would have done on that day, or how he and Jack would have celebrated all those milestones together. I didn't see a problem with that either (as someone whose father recently passed).

I question having Rebecca asking Kevin to build her the house on the hill that Jack was going to.  Rebecca you are married to someone else.  Has to make Miquel feel real good about himself and their marriage.

Edited May 26, 2021 by cameron

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was rolling my eyes at Kate, Kevin, and Randall freaking out that Rebecca and Jack had an argument about a VCR tape.

I was watching that thinking the child actors were wondering "What is a VCR?"

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, cameron said:

I question having Rebecca asking Kevin to build her the house on the hill that Jack was going to.  Rebecca you are married to someone else.

That came after Kate pointing out that Kevin could possibly relapse and he needed to stay busy.  For a split second I thought he was going to become the Manny in real life and take care of Kate's kids so she can still work.  

[geauxaway]

24 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

If Christina Braverman can create a school from scratch for her autistic son, I assume Kate can start a music school.  

All while going thru chemo and beating breast cancer in record time.   Challenge extended, Kate.

[txhorns79]

5 minutes ago, cameron said:

I question having Rebecca asking Kevin to build her the house on the hill that Jack was going to.  Rebecca you are married to someone else.  Has to make Miquel feel real good about himself and their marriage.

It's almost appropriate that even Rebecca doesn't consider Miguel to be a real factor when making decisions that will affect their marriage.  That's pretty much a Pearson family trait at this point. 

[geauxaway]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Of all the weddings I've been in and attended, I have never seen the wedding planner just hand over dresses to the bridesmaids the day of the wedding without any prior fittings (meaning the bridesmaids had never seen them until then). At one wedding, the bride bought all of the bridesmaid dresses for the girls who lived out of town (including me) and then sent them to us MONTHS in advance so that we could have them hemmed/fitted/otherwise altered if necessary.

This is exactly how it was with my sisters wedding.  We live in separate states.  Dresses were bought and altered locally (to the respective maids).  And yes, every other wedding I’ve been in we had at least 2 fittings.

[Snapdragon]

28 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I was surprised when Kate said they both couldn't have full-time jobs, but I guess you live what you know. My parents both had full-time jobs, but Kate's didn't.

 

I think that's due to their particular situation and not the fact that Rebecca never worked outside the home after having kids (which honestly I feel was just the writers being lazy.  There's no reason Rebecca wouldn't have gotten at least a part-time job once the kids were in middle school).  Kate and Toby have two small children, one with special needs, so childcare for them would be probably be more than what Kate makes at her job.

[LeighLeigh]

36 minutes ago, nixgirl28 said:

Yep, Beth is scared of Tess. She indulges her because she's afraid to offend her. Whether a child (and Tess is supposed to be 12!) is straight, gay, a they, etc they need boundaries and discipline. Beth's more concerned with Tess seeing her as woke, not with parenting her, and Tess knows it too.

Just curious how many teenagers you have? I have three. This is extremely realistic. It is always interesting to hear parenting advice from people who aren’t parents. 

[Boo Boo]

10 hours ago, MissT said:

I'm sorry, but did I miss something ?   Who is the British guys sister ?  
 

I think Kevin will be married to Madison in the future.    At least I hope do.  They are good together.   

I think so too. I think they take some time together to actually date.  They had the look of love when he barged in!

[cameron]

36 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Miguel himself was probably wondering what Jack would have done on that day, or how he and Jack would have celebrated all those milestones together. I didn't see a problem with that either (as someone whose father recently passed).

Jack has been dead over 20 years.  Time to move on.

20 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

I think that's due to their particular situation and not the fact that Rebecca never worked outside the home after having kids (which honestly I feel was just the writers being lazy.  There's no reason Rebecca wouldn't have gotten at least a part-time job once the kids were in middle school).  Kate and Toby have two small children, one with special needs, so childcare for them would be probably be more than what Kate makes at her job.

But Rebecca did go back and become a singer with a traveling band while still married to Jack.

[Chewy101]

19 minutes ago, LeighLeigh said:

Just curious how many teenagers you have? I have three. This is extremely realistic. It is always interesting to hear parenting advice from people who aren’t parents. 

I don't think anyone was offering parenting advice. Just freedom to discuss. If one caves to their teenagers and puts them ahead of the bride's desires at her own wedding, that doesn't mean one gets something about parenting that someone else doesn't. I am so glad I raised kids before being popular like all the cool kids was necessary. Stable, loving, and those moments when you hug your kid and say "gotta get over yourself, honey" raised kids who aren't living in their parents' basement at 29. The Big 3 has proven to be so incredibly overindulged and thus narcissistic adults, and now we are seeing THEIR kids be as nasty as they were.

Jack and Rebecca might have meant well, but to me they were the worst. Kevin was totally checked out and full of himself most of the time, Kate was vicious and disrespectful most of the time, and Randall was so messed up by his adoptive mommy that he has tried to control every woman in his life ever since to feel like a man (ironic that he had all daughters). They stumble and trample one another on a constant basis, only to redeem themselves  with a music montage right before we write them off completely. This is the most stressful family ever. I watch for the roller coaster ride, but thank God for message boards because a girl's got to vent about these fools.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Chewy101

[JayDub1987]

1 hour ago, kitkat343 said:

Oh man now I need to see pictures of the bridesmaids with the birds in their hair!

The only pictures my wife in are in possession of the bride. She refused to even take a selfie with me with her bright yellow bird HAHAHAHA

[Snapdragon]

3 minutes ago, cameron said:

Jack has been dead over 20 years.  Time to move on.

But Rebecca did go back and become a singer with a traveling band while still married to Jack.

Was that really a job though?  I feel like that lasted for a few months and I'm not sure if Rebecca even made any money from it.  That was more like a hobby she had on the side than an actual job.  

[Boo Boo]

11 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

I just don’t understand what the big change was to Tess’ look. It still looked pretty and feminine. It sure wasn’t non-binary after Beth got done with her. I was just lost on that point.

Same here.

Not to mention, have we seen non-binary Tess wearing non-binary clothing?  

And I guess I'm also confused non-binary.  Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't non-binary mean that you identify with both genders and therefore you wouldn't eschew either femininity or masculinity?  

If that's the case, why wouldn't Beth be like, "You're wearing the dress for one day.  Tomorrow, you can wear whatever the hell you want.  Today is not your day." 

Then there's the other plot hole -- she'd be fitted for that dress so it's not like she didn't know ahead of time what she's going to be wearing.  So if you said zip then, you lost your chance.  

[txhorns79]

 

3 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Not to mention, have we seen non-binary Tess wearing non-binary clothing?  

Tess isn't non-binary.  The person she is seeing is non-binary.  I think Tess just didn't like the dress. 

[JayDub1987]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

 I’m also calling Kate out for getting mad at “I love my children, but.”  Every parent has felt that.  He tells you working is necessary for his emotional and mental health, and it makes you mad.  

Hell yes! I looked at my wife the other night and said, "Are we sure we want kids," and we already have two! Any parent who acts like they're always thrilled with how their kids act is a liar. I've got a 9 year old and an 11 month old and it's frickin' trying sometimes! Toby said what every parent on earth has said at least once a week.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

I’m also calling Kate out for getting mad at “I love my children, but.”  Every parent has felt that.  He tells you working is necessary for his emotional and mental health, and it makes you mad.

I think Kate was upset because Toby is basically saying he loves his kids, but he comes first.  He's also hiding behind his mental health issues in such a way that he's placing a very large burden on his wife (three days a week of being a single parent) so he can feel more worthwhile about his life.   

[Boo Boo]

8 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

 

Tess isn't non-binary.  The person she is seeing is non-binary.  I think Tess just didn't like the dress. 

Ahhhh, well than it's even worse if Beth capitulated to her being a brat about the dress.

[Chewy101]

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

I think Kate was upset because Toby is basically saying he loves his kids, but he comes first.  He's also hiding behind his mental health issues in such a way that he's placing a very large burden on his wife (three days a week of being a single parent) so he can feel more worthwhile about his life.   

Ok, but if he didn't take the job he is a full time stay at home parent and he would rather die. That could destroy anyone's mental health, if it wasn't what they wanted. 

[Jillybean]

16 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

 

Tess isn't non-binary.  The person she is seeing is non-binary.  I think Tess just didn't like the dress. 

Exactly.

I enjoyed the flash-forward. After re-watching it a few times, I can't see how Kevin is with anyone other than Madison. The way this family embraces everyone's SOs, any wife or partner of Kevin's would be in the room with Madison and Beth. Madison lays a hand on Kevin's chest and tells him that she told him 12 times this morning "no boys allowed." Just because they decided not to marry immediately doesn't mean he doesn't fall in love with her over time. Everything in TV-land is so rushed and Kevin may have set a goal to be married by 40 but that wasn't realistic.

I am confused as to how Kate wins over the annoying British boss, but I never understood how Toby could stand her, either (and he's no great shakes, either).  Side note: I read an interview with Kate about this episode and she mentioned the audience being concerned about the splitting up of their "favorite couple," or something along those lines.

I'm glad someone upthread clarified that potbellied Nicky's wife wanted stockings, because after re-watching that scene several times I still thought he said "sake," and that made no sense. LOL. I'm glad he has found happiness in the future.

Speaking of him, having the Adirondack chairs shipped to the wedding venue is classic Nicky. He has no social graces (why would he?) and that's part of what makes him endearing to the audience. Just like showing up at Kevin and Madison's home with no notice. He's clueless about what's appropriate but he's embracing his family, and it's lovely. 

"Rising Star" Randall, meh. 

I'm thinking about re-watching the entire series since we have until at least January before Season 6 premieres. I've never re-watched any episode past the week it originally aired, so it would be good to go back and watch again to see how things fit together at this point. My only concern is that the Pearsons are a LOT for binging...heh.

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Jillybean

[ElectricBoogaloo]

17 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

Not to mention, have we seen non-binary Tess wearing non-binary clothing?  

And I guess I'm also confused non-binary.  Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't non-binary mean that you identify with both genders and therefore you wouldn't eschew either femininity or masculinity? 

Tess said that she likes girls, not boys (those were her exact words). She is dating Alex who is non-binary. Non-binary usually means someone who identities as neither male nor female‍. You can learn more about it here.

Edited May 26, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[geauxaway]

19 minutes ago, JayDub1987 said:

The only pictures my wife in are in possession of the bride. She refused to even take a selfie with me with her bright yellow bird HAHAHAHA

Was the bride Carrie Bradshaw???  Or did this wedding occur around the time the Sex & the City movie came out???  Make it make sense!!!!

[FnkyChkn34]

Yes, Tess is a spoiled, selfish brat... BUT! didn't she say that she knew the day wasn't about her, it was all about Madison and Kevin, and that she was going to suck it up?  It wasn't until BETH said "well, let's make this dress (that is supposed to be like a uniform and match everyone else and be ugly so that all eyes are on the bride and make the bridesmaids blend in) personalized so that you are comfortable and stand out!"

It's BETH that I hated in this situation, not so much Tess for once.  How utterly ridiculous.

I think for every season now, I start watching in the beginning, can't take their outrageous shenanigans anymore so quit in the middle of the season, and then usually catch the finale.  I did it again this season, and feel like I missed very little. 

Oh, and I also love how the entire Pearson family just spends all of Kevin's money.  "I'm dying, build me a (ridiculously expensive) house (in the middle of nowhere)!"  Yet she clearly lives at least another 10 years by the age of Kevin's kids.  He couldn't quit acting to reopen Jack's company - they'd all be broke.  At least one of them has to have a good paying job, so it's Kevin to keep funding his family's whims...

[Chewy101]

8 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

17 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Tess isn't non-binary.  The person she is seeing is non-binary.  I think Tess just didn't like the dress. 

Ahhhh, well than it's even worse if Beth capitulated to her being a brat about the dress.

She just pulled a Randall and had to control the situation, and Beth submitted dutifully. But even if Tess was having an identity crisis about the dress, welcome to being in someone's wedding! It is the WORST. Brides be crazy, and you don't want to cross them. You are not to have an identity that day, but merely to be a minion. And Madison wasn't even a Bridezilla.

[Chewy101]

13 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I'm glad someone upthread clarified that potbellied Nicky's wife wanted stockings, because after re-watching that scene several times I still thought he said "sake," and that made no sense. LOL. I'm glad he has found happiness in the future.

He's a Pearson, so being married doesn't mean "finding happiness." 😁Since she couldn't get her own stockings she must be pretty deep in the wedding party. Who would he be married to? Not like this show if we haven't unwittingly already seen her by now.

[ifionlyknew]

38 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

The Big 3 has proven to be so incredibly overindulged and thus narcissistic adults, and now we are seeing THEIR kids be as nasty as they were.

I agree Tess and to a lesser degree Deja annoys me.  However Jack and Hailey seemed nice in their flash forward. Maybe it's just Randall who raised brats. Except for Annie. She is a doll.

[Boo Boo]

18 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Tess said that she likes girls, not boys (those were her exact words). She is dating Alex who is non-binary. Non-binary usually means someone who identities as neither male nor female‍. You can learn more about it here.

Someone up thread said Tess was non-binary, so I took that as the case.

But thanks for the info on non-binary!

On the plot point, than it turns out she just didn't like the dress, which is why I'm confused Beth thought she had to capitulate to her on this unless the writers think her being lesbian means she has to disliked frilly dresses?  

Edited May 26, 2021 by Boo Boo

[cameron]

20 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Exactly.

I enjoyed the flash-forward. After re-watching it a few times, I can't see how Kevin is with anyone other than Madison. The way this family embraces everyone's SOs, any wife or partner of Kevin's would be in the room with Madison and Beth. Madison lays a hand on Kevin's chest and tells him that she told him 12 times this morning "no boys allowed." Just because they decided not to marry immediately doesn't mean he doesn't fall in love with her over time. Everything in TV-land is so rushed and Kevin may have set a goal to be married by 40 but that wasn't realistic.

I am confused as to how Kate wins over the annoying British boss, but I never understood how Toby could stand her, either (and he's no great shakes, either).  Side note: I read an interview with Kate about this episode and she mentioned the audience being concerned about the splitting up of their "favorite couple," or something along those lines.

I'm glad someone upthread clarified that potbellied Nicky's wife wanted stockings, because after re-watching that scene several times I still thought he said "sake," and that made no sense. LOL. I'm glad he has found happiness in the future.

Speaking of him, having the Adirondack chairs shipped to the wedding venue is classic Nicky. He has no social graces (why would he?) and that's part of what makes him endearing to the audience. Just like showing up at Kevin and Madison's home with no notice. He's clueless about what's appropriate but he's embracing his family, and it's lovely. 

"Rising Star" Randall, meh. 

I'm thinking about re-watching the entire series since we have until at least January before Season 6 premieres. I've never re-watched any episode past the week it originally aired, so it would be good to go back and watch again to see how things fit together at this point. My only concern is that the Pearsons are a LOT for binging...heh.

 

Guess I'm probably the only one out there that doesn't like Uncle Nicky.  

[marceline]

4 hours ago, nixgirl28 said:

Yep, Beth is scared of Tess. She indulges her because she's afraid to offend her. Whether a child (and Tess is supposed to be 12!) is straight, gay, a they, etc they need boundaries and discipline. Beth's more concerned with Tess seeing her as woke, not with parenting her, and Tess knows it too.

This. How many times did Beth apologize to Tess for "not always getting it right?" Beth made some occasional missteps but she's always been accepting. Tess is acting like Beth has been cold or hostile to her when the exact opposite is true. 

It wasn't just the nonsense about the dress. Tess spent the entire time working her hardest to suck the joy out of the room for everyone else. Rebecca and Miguel were absolutely overjoyed at being able to hug their grandchildren again and Tess was an absolute pill who couldn't be bothered to so much as crack a smile.

2 hours ago, cameron said:

Guess I'm probably the only one out there that doesn't like Uncle Nicky.  

You aren't. I don't exactly hate the guy but he works my nerves.

Edited May 26, 2021 by marceline

[Cheyanne11]

5 minutes ago, ifionlyknew said:

Except for Annie. She is a doll.

Who also happens to be a great bowler! #TeamAnnie

I'm torn on the possibility that Kevin and Madison are married in the flash forward.  I think it's a decent chance, because they'll obviously still be in each other's lives because of the kids, so they could've ended up actually falling in love.  Just please, let's not do Sophie 4.0.

What I'm not torn on is any trickery with Kate and British Dude.  There is no British Dude Sister and Kevin is either officiating the wedding or doing the toast, where he plans on making fun of his new BIL. 

Randy the Rising Star.  Oh, lord, don't tell me he runs for Mayor. 

Beth and Tess: I think had Beth just said "I know, the dress sucks, but it's Madison's day and you only have to wear it a few hours" Tess might've been OK.  But Beth was so anxious to go back to being the 'cool mom' that she went overboard with redesigning (sort of) the dress.

[Aloeonatable]

I think all Beth did to alter Tess' dress was to put a black t-shirt over the dress (you could see the pink above the t-shirt neckline), put the flower appliqué on top and pull the dress up a little in front to give it an uneven hemline. I didn't like Tess' complaining and Beth's capitulation, but as it turned out, there was not wedding!

These are probably unpopular opinions/speculations, but I hope Kevin finds a new love, not Sophie or Madison. I also hope that Nicky doesn't marry Sally, but also in his search finds a new love. 

[Empress1]

31 minutes ago, cameron said:

Jack has been dead over 20 years.  Time to move on.

They have moved on. Moving on doesn't mean forgetting he existed.

1 minute ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

At least one of them has to have a good paying job, so it's Kevin to keep funding his family's whims...

Councilmen in Philly make low six figures so Randall is doing fine. (I would also guess selling their Alpine house would have netted them enough to pay cash in Philly, and I would hope he banked a lot of what he made as a trader.)

There was a whole episode about how Kevin sees his money as family money, so I didn't think that was really out of line for them. It might be out of line for other families - not every wealthy family member has a"share the wealth" mentality - but we know Kevin does. Rebecca wasn't part of that discussion, but she probably knows her son. I mean, I don't know that I would ask my hypothetical kid to build me a house, but we know it's not something Kevin would be bothered by - he was talking about buying a compound for them all to live on just a few episodes ago.

1 minute ago, Boo Boo said:

Someone up thread said Tess was non-binary, so I took that as the case.  

So turns out she just didn't like the dress, which makes the whole plot point really, really stupid.

I don't think she is - I think she still uses she/her pronouns and identifies as female. Her significant other is the one who uses they/them pronouns.

I laughed when Beth ran up on Kevin and Randall under the umbrella. "Don't look at me! Wait, is that just for the bride? Doesn't matter! You're getting sunburned!"

Sterling K. Brown looked fine as FUCK in that tux at the end. Everybody looked great. Beth (who I think is so beautiful) looked gorgeous, and Kate's dress was really nice - I liked it better than her first wedding dress. Her first one was totally appropriate for the rustic venue. Her second wedding looks like it's a bit more formal.

Just now, Cheyanne11 said:

What I'm not torn on is any trickery with Kate and British Dude.  There is no British Dude Sister and Kevin is either officiating the wedding or doing the toast, where he plans on making fun of his new BIL.

Yeah, this is very straightforward to me - Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is likely the correct one. Within the next five years, Kate and Toby split up. Kate gets with her boss, who I hope stops being her boss when they get into a relationship, and they get married. Kevin gives a speech of some kind at the wedding. The only questions about this are the timing of the new relationship (i.e. did Kate cheat on Toby with the boss) and the reason(s) behind Toby and Kate's divorce.

1 minute ago, marceline said:

It wasn't just the nonsense about the dress. Tess spent the entire time working her hardest to suck the joy out of the room for everyone else. Rebecca and Miguel were absolutely overjoyed at being able to hug their grandchildren again and Tess was an absolute pill who could be bothered to so much as crack a smile.

I will give Tess some slack about this only because I was a moody teenager, so I know there were instances in my childhood when I did the same thing.

[ifionlyknew]

5 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

What I'm not torn on is any trickery with Kate and British Dude.  There is no British Dude Sister and Kevin is either officiating the wedding or doing the toast, where he plans on making fun of his new BIL. 

As the saying goes when you hear hooves think horses not zebras.  Meaning sometimes what  you think is true is true.  I know this show sometimes leads us down one path only to cut through some weeds to get to another path but I would bet money Kate is marrying the Brit.

[ShadowFacts]

20 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Oh, and I also love how the entire Pearson family just spends all of Kevin's money.  "I'm dying, build me a (ridiculously expensive) house (in the middle of nowhere)!"  Yet she clearly lives at least another 10 years by the age of Kevin's kids.  He couldn't quit acting to reopen Jack's company - they'd all be broke.  At least one of them has to have a good paying job, so it's Kevin to keep funding his family's whims...

One thing about Kevin, he's unfailingly generous.  Giving his very nice trailer to his uncle, funding all kinds of travel for his family.  I noticed in the future in the house he builds, there looks to be a conference room -- it could be a dining room, but it looked more utilitarian.  He could be a movie producer who holds meetings there, or maybe he has become a very successful builder.  Here we are barely post-pandemic (not even) and there are housing shortages in many parts of the country.  Maybe he enters that market at just the right booming time.  It would be a fitting legacy.

[Cheyanne11]

3 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I will give Tess some slack about this only because I was a moody teenager, so I know there were instances in my childhood when I did the same thing.

True enough.  My niece, who is an absolutely thoughtful, wonderful 22 year old, was an absolute pain in the ass between 13 and 14. 

[Jax7917]

11 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think Madison was there as Kate's bff, not Kevin's wife/baby mama.

 

 

Yeah but it seems they have more of a relationship than just Kates bridesmaid . She said “ I told you this morning not to blah blah blah “ .. whatever she said . And she gave him a flirty look and it just seemed like they were definitely together . 
 

I agree with the theory above that maybe it’s a vow renewal for Toby and Kate and there’s more to the “future brother in law “ comment than what we’re led to think . It just seems weird for the show to have Kate and Toby divorce in the end after everything .. but I guess we shall see . 
 

Tess needs to learn that the world doesn’t revolve around her and that it wasn’t her day . It was Madison’s . Nine times of out ten , no one feels comfortable in a bridesmaid dress , but the day isn’t about you so let the bride choose what type of dress/ theme/ style she wants . That was more of a teachable moment from Beth to her than letting Tess think she should always just get what she wants . Plus , it was still a dress . I didn’t see the difference in what she wore vs. what she wore originally . 

[Blakeston]

It's really amazing to me how little insight the show has given us into Tess.

There haven't been a lot of queer Black teenage girls on television, let alone queer Black teenage girls in interracial relationships with non-binary people. There's so much potential material there - like for example, does Tess still identify as a lesbian, even though she's dating someone who isn't female?

But instead it looks like the only thought the writers put into it was, "Let's make her a spoiled brat to create some tension with Beth.

[Empress1]

Just now, Cheyanne11 said:

True enough.  My niece, who is an absolutely thoughtful, wonderful 22 year old, was an absolute pain in the ass between 13 and 14. 

I like to think I am a good, kind person who people enjoy being around now (I have decades-long friendships, get good professional feedback, have family who love me), but I also know I was not easy to deal with between, like, 12 - 15. There were some extenuating circumstances, but still. I remember my boss at a previous job coming back from visiting her brother and his family and she was like "My niece is ... unpleasant." Teenagers can be difficult people. 

Just now, Jax7917 said:

Yeah but it seems they have more of a relationship than just Kates bridesmaid . She said “ I told you this morning not to blah blah blah “ .. whatever she said . And she gave him a flirty look and it just seemed like they were definitely together . 

The twins could be in the wedding as flower girl and ring bearer and Madison and Kevin would have had to coordinate that that day. As I've said, I don't care one way or the other if they end up together, but they have kids together. They're going to be talking regularly, particularly when their kids are little. Madison isn't just Kate's friend, she's the mother of Kate's niece and nephew. She's family, even if she and Kevin aren't together. (So is Toby, as the father of Kate's kids. So is Beth, if she and Randall were to ever split up.)

[Boo Boo]

9 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

Yeah but it seems they have more of a relationship than just Kates bridesmaid . She said “ I told you this morning not to blah blah blah “ .. whatever she said . And she gave him a flirty look and it just seemed like they were definitely together . 

I agree.  That was a look of these two kids are now in love.  

And even though I was meh on their storyline at first and meh on Madison (who in my mind had a complete personality change), I hope they do have them ultimately together. I don't want another Sophie episode.

[perkie1968]

12 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I get Tess wanting to be seen as herself, but it is a bridesmaid dress. They are notoriously hated and people wear them to please the bride. It's a few hours. And it wasn't like her problem was wearing a dress or looking feminine, so it just seemed bratty

THIS. So much this.  I had to pause so I could yell at my tv, that she was being a biatchy little brat and that Beth was indulging her.  You want to be treated with respect, then earn it, little girl.  Otherwise sit down and do as your told.  Whew, glad I got that off my chest!!!

 

I find the 5 year time jump to be way too short, considering that in that time, Kate and Toby break up, she hooks up with British guy enough that they're getting married and everyone is all happy, happy, joy, joy about it.  Didn't like it.  

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, Blakeston said:

It's really amazing to me how little insight the show has given us into Tess.

There haven't been a lot of queer Black teenage girls on television, let alone queer Black teenage girls in interracial relationships with non-binary people. There's so much potential material there - like for example, does Tess still identify as a lesbian, even though she's dating someone who isn't female?

But instead it looks like the only thought the writers put into it was, "Let's make her a spoiled brat to create some tension with Beth.

They really missed an opportunity to show why Tess was upset when she saw herself in that dress.  At least to me, she felt wrong in that very feminine dress, a wrongness that goes beyond a teen being bratty.  I wish the show would have actually gone there instead of what we got.  That dress is not the type of woman Tess wants to present to the world, and I get that.  The issue is deeper than she plain just doesn't like the dress.  

[LoveLeigh]

I find this show so annoying with it's righteous attempts to show them all working so hard to get it all right. They work so hard at becoming apologetic perfect siblings and so hard at being perfect sons and daughters, and so hard at being perfect partners and parents. 

Where I grew up and when I grew up, if all that talk went on to sort relationships out, the family would have walked away and said "shut up." And my dad would have listened and said "And now what? Do you need a swift kick in the ass now?" 

They spend so much energy talking and talking and working on it all, how do they ever have time to actually live? 

Edited May 26, 2021 by LoveLeigh

[Boo Boo]

8 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They really missed an opportunity to show why Tess was upset when she saw herself in that dress.  At least to me, she felt wrong in that very feminine dress, a wrongness that goes beyond a teen being bratty.  I wish the show would have actually gone there instead of what we got.  That dress is not the type of woman Tess wants to present to the world, and I get that.  The issue is deeper than she plain just doesn't like the dress.  

Being a lesbian who doesn't like feminine dresses does not mean she dictates the bride's choice of bridesmaids dresses the DAY OF her wedding.  It's one night to wear a dress of the bride's choosing, not to sourpuss and have your mom alter the bride's choice of dress.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Boo Boo

[Good Queen Jane]

The five year old Big 3 dressed up for the "family wedding" were the cutest things! Child Kevin in the fedora was particularly adorable. I also liked the "Children of the Corn" pose. Too bad they had to grow up.