S08.E18: My Kinda People and the Big To-Do

[JeanJean]

19 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

well, at least Wendy got the last word, so that’s something. 

And the actress delivered it so beautifully, just perfectly.

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, JeanJean said:

I loved the wrap up to Jill's journey. The old Jill wouldn't have been able to have a less than perfect wedding, let alone one with a mother-daughter duo scrapping in the background. It bodes really well for the chaos kids bring into a household!!

With all the money Jill has, it just didn't ring true to me. I would not begrudge her a nicer wedding than what she got.  And who cares if she was pregnant?  She would be a gorgeous pregnant bride.

But hey, it's 22 minutes........ I think I would prefer to see her planning a nice wedding to take place later, than what we got.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[iMonrey]

Quote

Exactly. All sitcoms start to run out of gas when they get to season 8, and we had a major blow losing Anna. I don't want Mom to be one of those shows that people say "it used to be good, now it sucks"

Yup. 2 and a Half Men should have ended after Charlie Sheen left (/was fired). The final two seasons with Ashton Kutcher were absolutely dreadful. It was clear nobody had any idea what to do with the show anymore and the writers were just phoning it in. Mom was sort of teetering on the edge of that this season, I thought. There were still some great moments, but the over-reliance on Bonnie was more pronounced that ever in Anna Faris's absence. 

[wendyg]

I was happy enough with this ending. The newcomers gave them all a chance to remember how far they've come, and they all were left in a pretty good place. It wasn't a laugh riot, but it was true to the show.

[Irlandesa]

47 minutes ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

The timing of it all was very strange. Anna Faris decided to leave months before, she talked to the crew about it, and she puts out a statement just days before production of season eight starts? The network was scrambling? Not saying you're wrong, but everyone (including us) thought the situation was sketchy when it first happened. 

I think it was initially reported that she let her decision be known very early into the hiatus.  But then counter reports came out saying that everyone was blindsided by Anna's last minute decision.  We probably won't ever know what is true but I'm leaning towards it was a last minute decision as I don't think they'd be trying to counter the "it was long known" narrative if it were true.

I didn't like the cancer story either.  Bonnie said it was caught early and treatable but of all cancers--why choose lung?  Why not something that does have a higher survival rate?  If they haven't even biopsied, how would they even known how treatable it is?  I feel like the show wanted to have it both ways.  It wanted to show Bonnie reacting calmly to a potentially terrible event and not turn to alcohol.  Never mind that it's opposite of how she has been most of this season. But they also didn't want to alarm us too much so they said it was treatable.  In the end, I am left worried for poor Adam.

I think it might have been better to introduce the daughter alcoholic character a little earlier in the series so she wouldn't feel so tagged on in this episode even if I did laugh at the role she and her mother played in the stories.  I thought the contrast to what she's feeling and the relative sense of peace everyone else had achieved even though they've also had their disasters was a nice way to wrap the series to show how far they'd come. 

So it was okay as far as series finales go but last week was better. 

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

If they haven't even biopsied, how would they even known how treatable it is?  I feel like the show wanted to have it both ways. 

Come to think of it, if they haven't biopsied yet, how do they know for sure it's cancerous?  Isn't that what a biopsy is?  I think they should have left the cancer out altogether.  IMO, they showed growth by having Bonnie be the one to reach out to the new girl.  She went above and beyond chasing her down the street.

[eel21788]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Come to think of it, if they haven't biopsied yet, how do they know for sure it's cancerous?  Isn't that what a biopsy is? 

Cancer cells reproduce at a faster rate than healthy cells. A PET scan can determine if tissue is cancerous or not by how quickly the suspicious spot uptakes the tracer. It isn't 100% fool-proof. Confirmation with a biopsy is still required. However, if there had been no or minimal uptake during the PET scan, the doctor would have been reasonably sure that it wasn't cancerous and would continue to watch it for further growth instead of going ahead with the biopsy.

[Kiddvideo]

I think the show was better without the kids (I won’t watch episodes with Violet), and I think the show was better without Christy as they’d written her since she’d become a gambling addict and cigarette fiend.

I said months ago when we learned that AF was leaving that the show needed a character to take the place of reigning Bonnie in. Maybe all this time Christy was the enabling crutch that allowed Bonnie to be so horrible? It was only 1 episode, but maybe next week (if there were one) Bonnie became a voice of reason or maybe she reverted to me-me-me.

[babyhouseman]

3 hours ago, Mr. Meatball Man said:

why couldn't Anna at least stay for one more episode?

I watched Empty Nest recently, and Kristy McNichol left abruptly during the middle of the show's run. I read where she had mental health issues. But she showed up for the last episode briefly explaining where the character had been. It would've been nice for a wrap up with Anna. I enjoyed the show, but I wasn't a consistent watcher. Jaime Pressly was from a town close to me in NC. 

[Spunkygal]

I’m assuming that at least Gus is okay. That’s all I care about.

[Such A Flirt]

I get what they were trying to do with the new mother and daughter team - but they were pretty unlikable and just wasted so much screentime.

And then, dammit, Adam! Fichtner is the only reason I even started watching this show, so that sucked.

[possibilities]

The thing I liked about Jill having a simple courthouse wedding is that it showed she's finally gotten beyond valuing her money and her image more than anything else in her life. That is as big a deal for her as Bonnie thinking of others is for Bonnie. I think it was important to do it that way to show she really had grown and wasn't just throwing herself into another desperate dynamic where she's trying to prove she's loved.

[TVMovieBuff]

17 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

With all the money Jill has, it just didn't ring true to me. I would not begrudge her a nicer wedding than what she got.  And who cares if she was pregnant?  She would be a gorgeous pregnant bride.

But hey, it's 22 minutes........ I think I would prefer to see her planning a nice wedding to take place later, than what we got.

That is the point, that despite all Jill's money, the big splashy wedding wasn't important to her. She has grown her own way, that getting married to Andy, pregnant, with her dearest friends around her, is all she wanted.  Everyone was happy. Money never made Jill happy.

[ams1001]

4 hours ago, Such A Flirt said:

I get what they were trying to do with the new mother and daughter team - but they were pretty unlikable and just wasted so much screentime.

I really could have done without them having an all-out brawl at the back of Jill's wedding. I guess it was to further show Jill's growth, that it didn't bother her, but even if I chose a simple courthouse wedding because I didn't care about all the trappings of Big Wedding (which I don't) I'd be pissed if some strangers (that my groom was nice enough to prevent going to jail, to boot) couldn't control themselves for 10 minutes.

[Ms Blue Jay]

If money had never made Jill happy then she wouldn't seem so happy.  She would have given her money away.  She certainly seemed happy to me.  She had friends and AA gave her a sense of purpose.  She just really wanted a baby.

I never said the wedding had to be big and splashy, but it could at least have been a bit more decent than that.  If she was soooooo in loooooove then why not let her show it off and/or celebrate it more?

I think she deserved more, but I could say that for other characters too, like Adam, certainly.  I don't know why I figured I'd see Rainn Wilson too.  A 22 minute finale for 100 characters is just sad.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[ams1001]

16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't know why I figured I'd see Rainn Wilson too.

We already got an ending for him when he went off on a trip after reconnecting with an old friend/crush/whatever-she-was. So I didn't expect to see him again (though at the beginning when she was freaking out about Adam saying he had to tell her something I was thinking he should have referred Bonnie to someone while he was away).

[chitowngirl]

I can see Jill having a splashy reception with her friends-she didn’t care about the splashy wedding, she wanted to just be married to a great guy and have children. The hows weren’t important to her anymore.

[Chaos Theory]

Money never made Jill happy.  If anything it was the source of her unhappiness.    She had all the money in the world and still had a deep hole inside her that shopping couldn’t fill.  As a matter of fact giving her clothes away and that time she was a foster mom was probably the happiest she ever was.    And most of her rich friends had long since dumped her.   The only reason for a splashy wedding or reception would be for friends that she no longer cared about. 

[Bastet]

I'd have written the same next day, small group, simple ceremony wedding in Jill's backyard instead, but I get why they went the City Hall route to have Andy agree to run out and have Bonnie and Christy version 2.0 released into his custody and Jill roll with them brawling in the background, so it worked for me.

[SmithW6079]

I didn't think much of the series finale. If I had been the new girl, I would have left too after hearing them all prattle on about great their lives were.

What a surprise that Bonnie makes Adam’s cancer diagnosis all about her. But wait, she's really a changed person. How do we know? Because she told us, even though all we were shown the entire season was her being a selfish, self-centered narcissist. 

Poor Adam. He lives in such fear of his emotionally abusive wife. He acted like her accompanying him to his doctor's appointment was such a noble thing for her to do instead of pretty much being the least a wife could do for her husband. 

I don't think series need extended final episodes. Too often they're just padded with fluff. Everyone got their happy ending (except Adam -- but I guess it's that he's got the love of a "good" woman who puts others first), so we didn't need more than that. 

[theatremouse]

On 5/14/2021 at 2:52 PM, Irlandesa said:

I didn't like the cancer story either.  Bonnie said it was caught early and treatable but of all cancers--why choose lung?  Why not something that does have a higher survival rate?

I think they didn't think it through. They'd previously established he used to smoke a lot. So I think when they decided to do a cancer thing, they chose lung because of that. But then they threw in her line about caught early and treatable - which makes it make no sense. Lung cancer is almost never caught early enough. Yeah there are lots of kinds, but my understanding is they all move fast. It's a matter of fast vs extremely fast. Unless it happened to get caught super early looking for something else entirely, lung cancer just doesn't get caught early because by the time you have a reason to seek medical attention, you're too late.

[Irlandesa]

1 minute ago, theatremouse said:

Unless it happened to get caught super early looking for something else entirely,

IIRC, that is how they found it here, isn't it?  But otherwise, I completely agree. 

[eel21788]

59 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

 they threw in her line about caught early and treatable - which makes it make no sense. Lung cancer is almost never caught early enough. Yeah there are lots of kinds, but my understanding is they all move fast. It's a matter of fast vs extremely fast. Unless it happened to get caught super early looking for something else entirely, lung cancer just doesn't get caught early because by the time you have a reason to seek medical attention, you're too late.

Pretty much any type of lung cancer discovered early was found by accident. It is possible that he went in for a routine physical that included a chest x-ray just because he is over 60. 

I pay for my own lung CT every year because by the time my mother's lung cancer was diagnosed, she had 12 days left to live. I'm determined that, if I'm going to get it, I'm going to find it early. It is no coincidence that the deadliest cancers are the ones that do not have screening programs, so I created my own.

[SmithW6079]

1 hour ago, theatremouse said:

They'd previously established he used to smoke a lot. 

Right, they said he hadn't smoked in 20 years, but wasn't he smoking pot pretty heavily until just a few years ago?

[eel21788]

11 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

Right, they said he hadn't smoked in 20 years, but wasn't he smoking pot pretty heavily until just a few years ago?

The campaigners for the legalization of marijuana claim that MJ actually prevents lung cancer. I don't know if there are any scientific studies to back that up.

[SmithW6079]

17 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

The campaigners for the legalization of marijuana claim that MJ actually prevents lung cancer. I don't know if there are any scientific studies to back that up.

A quick Google search seems to indicate the opposite -- that smoking pot could potentially put you at risk for developing lung cancer.

[eel21788]

1 minute ago, SmithW6079 said:

A quick Google search seems to indicate the opposite -- that smoking pot could potentially put you at risk for developing lung cancer.

I'm sure both teams have their own propaganda.

[SmithW6079]

2 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

I'm sure both teams have their own propaganda.

Well, the papers I looked at were scientific studies published in peer-reviewed journals, not anti-legalization websites. 

[Such A Flirt]

What really bugged me was that, in the cancer-revealing scene, Adam was comforting Bonnie instead of the other way aorund.

[SmithW6079]

55 minutes ago, Such A Flirt said:

What really bugged me was that, in the cancer-revealing scene, Adam was comforting Bonnie instead of the other way aorund.

Because it's all about Bonnie. Always. Even her share at the end was all about how great she was for thinking about others. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I did some online research on screening for smokers.  Generally, if you’re a smoker or a previous heavy smoker (there are specific requirements) they recommend annual tests.  There are some risks associated with the test, though and they are not always reliable.  The storyline about Adam was sad....in my mind, I’ll pretend there was a mistake and he’s fine, as I create my memories about the show’s characters.

https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/lung/basic_info/screening.htm

 

 

[eel21788]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I did some online research on screening for smokers.  Generally, if you’re a smoker or a previous heavy smoker (there are specific requirements) they recommend annual tests.  There are some risks associated with the test, though and they are not always reliable.  The storyline about Adam was sad....in my mind, I’ll pretend there was a mistake and he’s fine, as I create my memories about the show’s characters.

https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/lung/basic_info/screening.htm

 

 

Who Should Be Screened?

The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF)  yearly lung cancer screening with LDCT for people who—

Have a 20 pack-year or more smoking history, and

Smoke now or have quit within the past 15 years, and

Are between 50 and 80 years old.

These criteria don't apply to either me or my mother. Thus, I had to create my own screening program that insurance has no desire to cover even though I actually do have a lung nodule (that hasn't changed in the twenty years I've been screening myself).

[chediavolo]

On 5/14/2021 at 5:52 PM, Irlandesa said:

I think it was initially reported that she let her decision be known very early into the hiatus.  But then counter reports came out saying that everyone was blindsided by Anna's last minute decision.  We probably won't ever know what is true but I'm leaning towards it was a last minute decision as I don't think they'd be trying to counter the "it was long known" narrative if it were true.

I didn't like the cancer story either.  Bonnie said it was caught early and treatable but of all cancers--why choose lung?  Why not something that does have a higher survival rate?  If they haven't even biopsied, how would they even known how treatable it is?  I feel like the show wanted to have it both ways.  It wanted to show Bonnie reacting calmly to a potentially terrible event and not turn to alcohol.  Never mind that it's opposite of how she has been most of this season. But they also didn't want to alarm us too much so they said it was treatable.  In the end, I am left worried for poor Adam.

I think it might have been better to introduce the daughter alcoholic character a little earlier in the series so she wouldn't feel so tagged on in this episode even if I did laugh at the role she and her mother played in the stories.  I thought the contrast to what she's feeling and the relative sense of peace everyone else had achieved even though they've also had their disasters was a nice way to wrap the series to show how far they'd come. 

So it was okay as far as series finales go but last week was better. 

Yep. Lung cancer is a bad one. His chances of survival are low. Shitty ending for this show. I hated it. Last week felt like a much better finale. 

[chediavolo]

On 5/15/2021 at 12:19 PM, chitowngirl said:

I can see Jill having a splashy reception with her friends-she didn’t care about the splashy wedding, she wanted to just be married to a great guy and have children. The hows weren’t important to her anymore.

She hasn’t changed. She’s just in the throes of love & baby hormones. She’ll be back to being the spoiled insanely rich woman in no time. 

[TVMovieBuff]

21 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 The storyline about Adam was sad....in my mind, I’ll pretend there was a mistake and he’s fine, as I create my memories about the show’s characters.

 

 

 

This is exactly what I do! I think it is what is meant to happen, when shows end with an uncertainty.

[Jillybean]

On 5/14/2021 at 1:07 PM, MissLucas said:

Thank you! I could place the mother but not the daugheter although I knew I had seen her in another show.

In addition to her role on Two and a Half Men, Melanie Lynskey was also the woman who had "a baby....in a bar!" in Sweet Home Alabama.

[marymon]

I think a nice ending for Wendy would have been a newcomer wanting Wendy to be their sponsor. I think that would have been a nice boost for her.

[chediavolo]

19 hours ago, Jillybean said:

In addition to her role on Two and a Half Men, Melanie Lynskey was also the woman who had "a baby....in a bar!" in Sweet Home Alabama.

I hardly recognized her she has an aged well. 

[juliet73]

I was definitely disappointed that this was the finale.  I didn't like the Adam cancer storyline.  I didn't like introducing the new characters, etc.  It would have been nice to have the episode centered around Tammy's sober birthday (instead of a few episodes back) and have the girls reflect on how far they've all come, etc over the years.  They could have had Jill mention she was getting married and give Bonnie a throw away line about why Christy couldn't be there.  The final scene could have been Wendy asking if anyone else wanted to share and then have Shannon raise her hand while her mom was sitting next to her.  The show would have come full circle.   

[Snow Apple]

On 5/17/2021 at 7:58 PM, Jillybean said:

In addition to her role on Two and a Half Men, Melanie Lynskey was also the woman who had "a baby....in a bar!" in Sweet Home Alabama.

I first saw her in Heavenly Creatures where she co-starred with Kate Winslet. I'm happy she continues to have a good acting career.

[TV Diva Queen]

When they showed us "Rose" and "Mike's mom" I giggled and thought they were like the olden days MGM contract player and CBS pulled them out of their bungalow and said "you and you, we need you for Mom, get to hair and make-up"  they rejoice "we got a job"  person say "series finale"  

[bad things are bad]

23 hours ago, chediavolo said:

On 5/17/2021 at 8:58 PM, Jillybean said:

In addition to her role on Two and a Half Men, Melanie Lynskey was also the woman who had "a baby....in a bar!" in Sweet Home Alabama.

 

She's also popped up on Young Sheldon. Lorre definitely has his stable of players. 

[ams1001]

On 5/17/2021 at 8:58 PM, Jillybean said:

In addition to her role on Two and a Half Men, Melanie Lynskey was also the woman who had "a baby....in a bar!" in Sweet Home Alabama.

And Jacqueline (the nice "evil" stepsister) in Ever After. I didn't watch Two and a Half Men; whenever I see her I think of "baby in a bar" and "I'm just here for the food."

[ButterQueen]

On 5/14/2021 at 4:12 PM, Sarah 103 said:

 

That was my biggest problem with the finale. Adam is a character many viewers care about and to leave his fate so uncertain when everyone else gets a happily ever after felt wrong. 

Same here. If they wanted to show Bonnie's growth through a crisis, have Adam tell her the doctor found something and referred him to a specialist for tests. You can still have Bonnie freak out and call Marjorie. You can still show her worrying about what happens next. The results come back; it's treatable with surgery, or it isn't actually cancer. Bonnie's share at the end about being able to deal with a crisis without drugs or alcohol still works.  

I hated it.  My spouse was diagnosed with a tumor on his lung,  never smoked, and passed away 6 mos later.  It’s barely been a year.  I hated the whole thing.

[funky-rat]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:36 PM, ams1001 said:

 

This is the vanity card at the end:

I appreciate that he stuck in some tenets of the programs: you don't have to do it alone, and to carry the message.

On 5/14/2021 at 3:31 PM, eel21788 said:

I still want to know why Wendy was arrested while wearing scrubs. Now, I'm assuming that either the charges were dismissed or she got probation since she didn't have anything to add when Tammy and Marjorie were talking about having done time. 

I thought once it came up that she was either stealing pills or forging prescriptions.  I could be wrong.

[eel21788]

9 hours ago, funky-rat said:

I thought once it came up that she was either stealing pills or forging prescriptions.  I could be wrong.

Those are theories we discussed here. It was never brought up on the show.

[proserpina65]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:46 PM, LucyEth said:

Does Adam have cancer?

Given that they discussed having a treatment plan with an oncologist, I'd say he does.

On 5/13/2021 at 9:54 PM, Snow Apple said:

Why did they introduce two new characters in the very last episode? We don't know or care about them, and we'll never get to know them. Their screen time could have gone to Wendy.

I think they were trying to contrast where the group had been once and how far they had come.  It kinda, sorta worked for me, but I do wish the finale had been an hour so there'd been more time for Wendy.  On the other hand, I'm glad we didn't get a reappearance of Christy.  I was tired of her by season 6.

On 5/13/2021 at 11:20 PM, Mr. Meatball Man said:

I like her character too, but the show made it clear a long time ago that she's just the comic relief, the extra piece.

I think a lot of us wanted her to develop beyond just being the comic relief and were disappointed that it never happened.

On 5/14/2021 at 2:01 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

And Marjorie's cats. 

Especially Boz Scaggs, to whom someone has been feeding carrots.

On 5/14/2021 at 10:31 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Remember Abed on "Community"?

I've tried to pretend that Abed never existed.

On 5/14/2021 at 12:26 PM, ch1 said:

I’ll pretty much skip the last 2 seasons.  I enjoyed the reruns of the earlier seasons more than this season.

Whereas I tend to skip the first couple of seasons when I watch reruns, partly because I've seen them a lot, but also because I really dislike Violet.

[SmithW6079]

Is part of a 12-step program personal growth? Because I don't think these characters grew at all. Bonnie told us she did, but she didn't really. Even Adam's cancer diagnosis was all about her.

Sure, Jill didn't freak out because her hasty, City Hall wedding was disrupted by the battling boozos, but she's still going back to her humongous house to live her overprivileged lifestyle. Only now, she'll have a husband (for a few years) and a baby forever (well, the nannies will). 

Marjorie was already wise, so I guess her making up with her son was her growth? Except that the ball was in his court because she had expressed that desire for years.

Did Wendy grow? If anything, she did some backsliding when she started hooking up with a man she knew was married who ended up dumping her. That would have been better handled if she dumped him once she found out he was married.

I supposed Tammy ended up being the "star" of the past two seasons. We saw her overcome her anger issues, forgive the woman who was responsible for the path that led her to jail, worked the program, and eventually started her own business. I would have preferred if she had gone on her own rather than with leech Bonnie, but I suppose that couldn't be helped, since we had to be told Bonnie was good at something other than scamming people (like she did with her job as the apartment manager).

[Feech]

I think they should have ended it in the diner with Adam joining the girls table. He would get bored and put a  “Journey” song on the jukebox. Tammy would have trouble pearling her new van. A guy wearing a  members only jacket will walk in…stare at Bonnie…..then go to the bathroom.

Then as Tammy finally bursts into the diner….we fade to black.

Perfect.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:38 PM, babyhouseman said:

I watched Empty Nest recently, and Kristy McNichol left abruptly during the middle of the show's run. I read where she had mental health issues. But she showed up for the last episode briefly explaining where the character had been. It would've been nice for a wrap up with Anna. I enjoyed the show, but I wasn't a consistent watcher. Jaime Pressly was from a town close to me in NC. 

Just read your post and got chills!  Last night out of the blue I started reading online updates on Kristy McNichol!  Just out of the blue.....read about Jimmy, her brother too.  Then today I see your post.  So ironic.  Oh, I’m from NC too.  Where did you find Empty Nest?  I might give it a shot. I loved Family, the series.  And yes, unfortunately Kristy suffers with mental illness that was a major reason she left acting.  
 

Yes, Jaime Presley is from NC.  I’m so proud of her.  Also, Sandra Bullock.  I went to college with her...lol. Didn’t really know her though.  

Edited June 24, 2021 by SunnyBeBe