S11.E10: Sinking Ships

[Panda Bear]

I thought maybe Jackie didn't want to eat Melissa's salad because Melissa had just gotten over an illness that involved a lot of puking.

[Stats Queen]

5 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Was the get-together specifically to eat together? Did Melissa make salad because Jackie expressed a desire for salad beforehand? If not, who gives a shit? I am not going to eat if I don't want to eat (though, like I said earlier, that doesn't happen much to me, haha!). Didn't seem like Melissa cared one way or the other. Jackie's a grownup (more or less) and can decide whether she wants some salad or not. 

When I was a good girl and was on Weight Watchers, salad with dressing already on it was not good. It could easily go from 0 points to half of your daily point allotment depending upon the amount and type of dressing.

With Jackie, it is a whole different situation and I agree with others that her eating disorders are affecting her eating and other choices. I used to be on the board of a non-profit that worked with helping to get inpatient treatment for individuals who didn’t have insurance or the insurance wouldn’t cover it. I was very enlightening and educational.

[Stats Queen]

3 hours ago, Marley said:

I’m sure Teresa knew Joe was doing something wrong but she is kind of an idiot so she didn’t know exactly what he was doing. I’m sure she knew it was illegal. She wanted to keep the money flowing tho so prob also didn’t care.

Overall I agree with this. However, while I do think Teresa is an idiot, I think she definitely knew for a fact that what Joe was doing was totally illegal and she used cognitive dissonance as a way to not connect the dots.

[ichbin]

23 minutes ago, Stats Queen said:

Overall I agree with this. However, while I do think Teresa is an idiot, I think she definitely knew for a fact that what Joe was doing was totally illegal and she used cognitive dissonance as a way to not connect the dots.

I doubt we'll ever know Teresa's truth, but I've known people who have the outlook that those who have been cheated are somehow also culpable because they had made the choice to get involved.  Yeah, I know that is a bullshit mindset, but this is a way some guilty people justify their behavior. It takes all kinds. 

[TheCouchPotato]

Stop with the pineapples and what it does to your undercarriage. I cant even look at one now without seeing Theresa’s face. 

[Stats Queen]

5 minutes ago, TheCouchPotato said:

Stop with the pineapples and what it does to your undercarriage. I cant even look at one now without seeing Theresa’s face. 

 

[AryasMum]

On 4/21/2021 at 10:38 PM, Lassus said:

Again in the previouslies: "Oh, yeah, Teresa is so sexual."

I mean, there are a lot of words I would use to describe the RHONJ character Teresa Giudice.  "Sexual" is simply not one of them.

Can a long-time viewer clue me in to some of Teresa's early set that I obviously missed? ("It's a little blue"?)

I have no idea how sexual Tre is.  What I remember, is her bragging that sexy times with Joe included her laying face down with her head hanging off the bed so her hair wasn’t rumpled. Sounds rather drab. 

[heatherchandler]

15 hours ago, IslandGirl said:

Is the general consensus here that Teresa knew what Joe was doing? I was never quite convinced either way really. They seem very old school, so I could see him hiding it & her being possibly unaware...

She knew.  She falsified W2s to get millions in loans.  She lied in court to the judge.  She claimed she had $25,000 in furniture (for which we saw her pay over $100,000 in cash) and that all of her jewelry is fake.  She lied on documents.  She didn’t want to have to have her stuff taken away.  That’s what she cared about.  She was not just complicit, she was 100% actively involved in the fraud.
 

The judge said that she was going to give her probation but she realized that she flat out lied to the court so she gave her time.

She lied to the court about her book advance, she tried to hide that.

Teresa is not a good mother.  She chose material THINGS, that she could flaunt over being with her kids.

15 hours ago, DeeplyShallow said:

No, Theresa does not get a pass for me because she did her time in prison. And, I prefer to call it what it is- prison, not camp- because she & Juicy got what they deserved.

She knew. She’s arguably of questionable intelligence but she’s also materialistic, competitive, and lacking in empathy for those outside of her immediate circle. Tre may not have known about everything her husband was doing but she knew enough. They bilked people out of money, plenty of people never got paid, and they put innocent people in danger because they were living in shit conditions- all because the Guidices did everything that they could to live their tacky, materialistic, meaningless lifestyle.

Why doesn’t Theresa get a pass from me, despite her 11.5 months in prison? Because even during the trial, when the judge could have slapped a lighter sentence on her, despite these very serious charges, this woman dared to LIE in court and attempted to hide assets. Because when she got out of prison, her “namastay” persona was shortlived and she continues to flaunt her materialism with her luxury cars (wasn’t it a brand new Lexus that she got once she left prison?) with her arm full of Cartier, glam, bags while NEVER taking any accountability for her actions. Everything is Joe’s fault. Joe is 100% guilty- but so is she. They blame him for putting nonna under stress and losing “11.5 months” with Theresa- but never pointing the finger back at herself. Excuse me?

I also question how great of a mother she is. She has consistently pimped out her girls and her family pain for over a decade- for $$$. The Gia “waking up in the morning” scene that’s gone viral these days? How cruel to have your small child & her pain spotlighted like that for the cameras.

The kids seem well adjusted, if not a bit bratty at times, but I believe that’s in spite of their asshole parents.

MMV

I want to like this 100000 times!

[MsTree]

1 hour ago, AryasMum said:

What I remember, is her bragging that sexy times with Joe included her laying face down with her head hanging off the bed so her hair wasn’t rumpled. Sounds rather drab. 

Sounds to me more like Juicy didn't want to see her face. Made it easier for him to do the deed.

[Hiyo]

Well, the visual of Juicy going in through the back door was not one I needed.

[AryasMum]

5 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Well, the visual of Juicy going in through the back door was not one I needed.

I think it was just their position, not anal itself. But who knows. I think it was around the time she and Jacqueline were talking about cock rings. It was a little cringe. 

[AryasMum]

6 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

She knew.  She falsified W2s to get millions in loans.  She lied in court to the judge.  She claimed she had $25,000 in furniture (for which we saw her pay over $100,000 in cash) and that all of her jewelry is fake.  She lied on documents.  She didn’t want to have to have her stuff taken away.  That’s what she cared about.  She was not just complicit, she was 100% actively involved in the fraud.
 

The judge said that she was going to give her probation but she realized that she flat out lied to the court so she gave her time.

She lied to the court about her book advance, she tried to hide that.

Teresa is not a good mother.  She chose material THINGS, that she could flaunt over being with her kids.

I want to like this 100000 times!

I struggle with my opinion of Tre’s mothering.  I think she’s incredible with the nurturing part. She’s very physically affectionate - I remember a time they were all outside and Tre was holding toddler Audrianna. Gabriella was nearby and Tre reached down and cupped her face tenderly. 
 

But then I remember the Hilton kids who received plenty of love, with no discipline, but an obsession with material things.  Tre is immature and willfully ignorant. Her children run rings around her intellectually from about the age of five - except perhaps Audriana. As the baby of the family, and experiencing the trauma of her mom “going away” for a year, Audriana seems younger than her age. 
 

Tre is also overly reliant on her children emotionally, particularly Gia, and when Gia is gone, that burden will fall on Gabriella and Milania.  Tre always gets praise for supposedly sheltering Gabriella from the cameras, but to truly protect her from the intrusive cameras that make her uncomfortable, Tre could have chosen to leave the show. She chose the show. 

[IslandGirl]

20 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

I also think the 3 nitwits resent each other. None of them went to bat for the other when they had issues with Teresa. First it was Marge - when it was revealed that Teresa egged Danielle to pull Margaret's hair - I don't remember Jackie or Melissa telling Teresa she was an absolute asshole for that. With the Evan B'day party rumor circulation - neither Margaret nor Melissa told Teresa she was being an asshole. Melissa is just an outright chicken. The only time any of them do so in the chicken shit TH shots.

LOL KungFuBunny, from now on THs have become CSTHs in my head, featuring Marge, Jackie, & Melissa as the 3 nitwits!
 

9 minutes ago, AryasMum said:

I think it was just their position, not anal itself. But who knows. I think it was around the time she and Jacqueline were talking about cock rings. It was a little cringe. 

Yeah I thought she was referring to doggie-style, not anal, which we small breasted ladies (this was before Tre's breast augmentation) sometimes prefer!

[Kdawg82]

Tre looked a little bugged by Jennifer's hosted mothers' celebration.  I don't feel like it was all about "missing her mom" though I don't doubt that was part of it. It started with the "you're not a big drinker?!" 😒... But seeing the food spread, the house, & the happiness of the other women and their moms to be there (including all the moms being impressed by the house), Tre seemed to have felt her status as #1 HBIC slipping away.  Jen is more likeable now. She has a good marriage from what is presented & she has a loving relationship with her whole family (like they've all always been about faaambly). Idk...I just got that perturbed vibe off of Tre that wasn't all about her mom. It was about her not being the #1 star anymore. 

[BrindaWalsh]

1 hour ago, Kdawg82 said:

 Tre seemed to have felt her status as #1 HBIC slipping away.  Jen is more likeable now. She has a good marriage from what is presented & she has a loving relationship with her whole family (like they've all always been about faaambly). Idk...I just got that perturbed vibe off of Tre that wasn't all about her mom. It was about her not being the #1 star anymore. 

You mean the OG with tacky style, 3-then-4 kids, with a good looking husband (Juicy wasn't bad looking in the beginning), parents right there to cook and pass on italian traditions to the kids, in a huge new construction house, with money to frivolously burn, who considers herself funny, warm and generous, and above all is proudly over the top in everything she does is feeling threatened by the newish housewife with tacky style, 5 kids, a good looking (and successful and well spoken) husband, with parents right there to cook and come together to share traditional turkish customs with the kids, in a huge new construction house, with money to frivolously burn, who considers herself funny, warm and generous, and above all over the top in everything she does?

I can't imagine why Tre would feel that way.  

[KungFuBunny]

4 hours ago, IslandGirl said:

LOL KungFuBunny, from now on THs have become CSTHs in my head, featuring Marge, Jackie, & Melissa as the 3 nitwits!

Here they are

[Chatty Cake]

Hate the title of Marges book and also don’t care about the content. 
Melissa and that awkward conversation with her daughter. How mortifying for the girl. 

[halkatla]

On 4/22/2021 at 1:48 AM, Wicked said:

Melissa, stooooooppppp.  So unfair to do this on camera, are you kidding me???

 

I have literally never had a problem with Melissa before this. I think/thought she´s a great housewife who is unfairly called boring while lets face it, almost everything supposedly non-boring Teresa does somehow involves Melissa, who always remains kind of classy and relaxed while this horror sister-in-law goes nuts. However, this scene with her daughter really bothered me...

[Stats Queen]

7 hours ago, BrindaWalsh said:

You mean the OG with tacky style, 3-then-4 kids, with a good looking husband (Juicy wasn't bad looking in the beginning), parents right there to cook and pass on italian traditions to the kids, in a huge new construction house, with money to frivolously burn, who considers herself funny, warm and generous, and above all is proudly over the top in everything she does is feeling threatened by the newish housewife with tacky style, 5 kids, a good looking (and successful and well spoken) husband, with parents right there to cook and come together to share traditional turkish customs with the kids, in a huge new construction house, with money to frivolously burn, who considers herself funny, warm and generous, and above all over the top in everything she does?

And the best sunset in Paramus.

[Kdawg82]

8 hours ago, BrindaWalsh said:

You mean the OG with tacky style, 3-then-4 kids, with a good looking husband (Juicy wasn't bad looking in the beginning), parents right there to cook and pass on italian traditions to the kids, in a huge new construction house, with money to frivolously burn, who considers herself funny, warm and generous, and above all is proudly over the top in everything she does is feeling threatened by the newish housewife with tacky style, 5 kids, a good looking (and successful and well spoken) husband, with parents right there to cook and come together to share traditional turkish customs with the kids, in a huge new construction house, with money to frivolously burn, who considers herself funny, warm and generous, and above all over the top in everything she does?

I can't imagine why Tre would feel that way.  

You freaking NAILED IT!

[J80134]

Marge's book seems so uninteresting.  Half the women in her age group, myself included, had a young mom (mine was 18), practically raised themselves and made bad teenage to early 20s choices. Her story is pretty tame compared to mine and most of my friends...and I don't think any of us consider our lives book-worthy. 

Tre's bf is the worst kept secret in town. She's giddy like a girl who finally got laid proper. Hope she's careful, cuz we all know how that turned out for Thelma.

OFM Jr. shouldn't be subjected to her womanhood and sex life supplying the Gorga storyline. High school is hard enough when your caveman dad swings his dick around on TV and your mom tries so hard to milf it up, on and off camera. 

[Never Again]

On 4/25/2021 at 1:53 AM, AryasMum said:

On 4/21/2021 at 10:38 PM, Lassus said:

 

I have no idea how sexual Tre is.  What I remember, is her bragging that sexy times with Joe included her laying face down with her head hanging off the bed so her hair wasn’t rumpled. Sounds rather drab. 

I wish I could go back in time and not have read this, now I can picture them, ewww

[mostlylurking]

On 4/25/2021 at 11:41 AM, BrindaWalsh said:

You mean the OG with tacky style, 3-then-4 kids, with a good looking husband (Juicy wasn't bad looking in the beginning), parents right there to cook and pass on italian traditions to the kids, in a huge new construction house, with money to frivolously burn, who considers herself funny, warm and generous, and above all is proudly over the top in everything she does is feeling threatened by the newish housewife with tacky style, 5 kids, a good looking (and successful and well spoken) husband, with parents right there to cook and come together to share traditional turkish customs with the kids, in a huge new construction house, with money to frivolously burn, who considers herself funny, warm and generous, and above all over the top in everything she does?

I can't imagine why Tre would feel that way.  

It would be in character for Tre to feel threatened by Jen, but I’m honestly not getting that vibe from her.  Marge and Jackie on the other hand, their jealousy is palpable.  

[AryasMum]

7 hours ago, Never Again said:

I wish I could go back in time and not have read this, now I can picture them, ewww

 I feel like Tre even demonstrated her play dead pose for Jaqueline.  

[Never Again]

On 4/22/2021 at 9:48 PM, geauxaway said:

Yeah no.  It’s so hard to understand.  And I myself am still very judgmental of people and their choices, but I shudder every night when I lay down and remember laying in that metal bed on a plastic mat.  And then waking  up to that nasty ass food, after getting no sleep because the lights NEVER turn off.  And you can never really sit or lay down AT ALL.   She did her time that the judge felt she deserved.  Same with Joe Guidice.  And they both seem to act like good people now.  IDK.  It’s tough.

 

On 4/22/2021 at 9:53 PM, geauxaway said:

 

She is. And that’s all we can hope to be at the end of the day.  And to be honest, I think Tre is a great and loving mom.

 

On 4/22/2021 at 10:31 PM, BrownBear2012 said:

If she and her dumbass ex hadn’t gotten greedy and committed fraud they wouldn’t have had to do time. Sorry ...I have no sympathy for her. For the kids? Yes...they have suffered a lot. Her parents suffered and did all the work involved with the kids and the home while she was at “camp”. For all her mistakes and personal humiliations, she could have and should have had some personal mea culpa and been less self absorbed and petty. 

 

On 4/22/2021 at 10:38 PM, geauxaway said:

Wow, OK.  I mean.  They did their crime and paid their time as sentenced by the courts.  So now what?   What else should Teresa Guidice do to make things right for you.  Should she volunteer to go back to prison for you?   She’s a real life person as we all are.  Camp sucks.  That’s all I was saying as someone who has been in there.  They were convicted and served their sentences.  Now what?  She’s the DEVIL FOREVER????  

 

On 4/23/2021 at 9:15 AM, mostlylurking said:

I totally agree with you and also thank you for sharing your story.  Tre did her time, which was in line with what other people have been sentenced for similar crimes.  It sucks what she did, but like....there’s nothing more she can do.  Juicy Joe got deported, which I thought was bullshit because there are violent criminals in this country illegally who don’t even get deported.  And yes, from earlier seasons until now, for all Teresa’s faults she does seem like a good mom and her kids really love her and their dad, so that;s something.

 

 

On 4/23/2021 at 1:52 PM, heatherchandler said:

I will defend her - it is so easy to put it off.  I put it off for 4 years!  It is not something anyone wants to do, so it is easy to just say - oh I will get to that soon!

When I was a little girl, I remember my mother's friend was going on and on about how awful it is and PAINFUL and how they squish your boobs between glass panes... I was terrified!  Of course, once I went, I could not believe how easy and pain-free it actually is!  Maybe there have been advances since the 80s. 

 

I have family members who have been to prison - I do feel sympathy for people in prison, but with Teresa, I just cannot find it in me. 

I have ZERO sympathy for Teresa.  None.  She basically stole from hardworking people to fund her lifestyle.  Going to prison did not make the people she stole from whole.  It's not like this was a victimless crime.

She CHOSE to steal, knowing full well that what she was doing could put her in prison, and away from her girls and her parents.  She continued to go down that path.  She wasn't an innocent party, she knew full well what was going on.  She wanted to show off her "fabulous" life of luxury, and make people jealous.  She did this by stealing.  

 

I see there are two opposite lines of thought here, and while I know jail cannot be fun, and I feel for you who have been there,  I definitely don’t think what is happening now is OK.  First of all my great-nieces dad was in prison for a few months and it’s devastating to the family members, who are innocent kids but pay a huge price for the misdeeds of their parents.  So I feel that personally.  Secondly, yes maybe some crimes are settled somehow just by the criminal serving time.  But tell me how the electricians and contractors and landscapers who were never paid by Teresa and Joe are good now?  Teresa serving time does not pay for their children’s college education. Teresa pretending to be stupid and innocent doesn’t put food on their table.  Teresa barely pretending to be sorry doesn’t put money in their retirement funds.   I’m sure Teresa’s kids have suffered for the choices their parents made but there are other families suffering for those choices too, and they didn’t have a say in it. If I were a worker who didn’t get paid it would drive me insane to watch her selling her house for millions and buying and flipping another for 3 million. I have no sympathy for Teresa and even less for Joe 

[heatherchandler]

On 4/25/2021 at 10:10 AM, Kdawg82 said:

Tre looked a little bugged by Jennifer's hosted mothers' celebration.  I don't feel like it was all about "missing her mom" though I don't doubt that was part of it. It started with the "you're not a big drinker?!" 😒... But seeing the food spread, the house, & the happiness of the other women and their moms to be there (including all the moms being impressed by the house), Tre seemed to have felt her status as #1 HBIC slipping away.  Jen is more likeable now. She has a good marriage from what is presented & she has a loving relationship with her whole family (like they've all always been about faaambly). Idk...I just got that perturbed vibe off of Tre that wasn't all about her mom. It was about her not being the #1 star anymore. 

Absolutely!  Jennifer is everything Teresa wanted to be, but legit.  

 

2 hours ago, Never Again said:

...But tell me how the electricians and contractors and landscapers who were never paid by Teresa and Joe are good now?  Teresa serving time does not pay for their children’s college education. Teresa pretending to be stupid and innocent doesn’t put food on their table.  Teresa barely pretending to be sorry doesn’t put money in their retirement funds.   I’m sure Teresa’s kids have suffered for the choices their parents made but there are other families suffering for those choices too, and they didn’t have a say in it. If I were a worker who didn’t get paid it would drive me insane to watch her selling her house for millions and buying and flipping another for 3 million. I have no sympathy for Teresa and even less for Joe 

This is exactly how I feel.  

There is that law saying that criminals cannot benefit financially from their crime - Son of Sam (or maybe another serial killer) wanted to write a book about the murders and sell it, and profit from it - he could not do that.  I feel like Teresa should not have been allowed to write a book about prison.  She benefitted from her financial crimes, and somehow was able to keep everything (?) and then she made more money by writing about it all. 

AND that f-ing idiot Andy keeps giving her more opportunities.  She has fans who will read her books and want her autograph.  The cast tiptoes around her... how does this woman screw over so many people, without a care, and still have people rooting for her?

 

 

 

[LibertarianSlut]

I can’t believe how much more interesting the discussion here is than the episode was.

God forbid I should resist a chance to give my long-winded opinion on some of the issues, so here goes:

I think, with regard to Dolores receiving the award for raising breast cancer awareness when she hadn’t had her own mammogram...exactly the right thing happened.  She should get to keep the award if she raised, I guess, awareness that there is breast cancer going on (sounds a bit self-congratulatory, but ok), and I think she deserved to be called out on social media for neglecting herself, because that falls short of setting a good example.  It shouldn’t not be called out IMO.  Just the way that people mock the hell out of the 5’2” and 270 lbs Janelle Brown of Sister Wives for trying to get the rest of us to “Strive” to lose weight, I think this deserved commentary and criticism, but not recall of the award.  JMO.  

As far as Teresa and her crimes.......look, I’m not looking to get any upvotes with this post—I know I am splitting the baby—so I am just going to go there and say I’m conflicted and do a little Paradise By The Dashboard Light and get out. 

I think that a crime is a crime is a crime in a lot of aspects.  I do not think the judge should take into account the convicted’s domestic situation at all in sentencing.  That is not a criminal justice ideology that I buy into at all.  I wouldn’t even know what to call that—it’s not rehabilitation, it’s just letting someone off the hook.  I am more Old Testament and I think the primary purpose of the criminal justice system should be retribution, followed closely by deterrence.  If the criminal didn’t care enough about their family enough to abstain from crime, then they get to sit in a jail cell and think about it.  I choose not to have kids.  The idea that I should be incarcerated for a longer period of time than someone who made different family planning choices than me is something I wouldn’t know how to begin to wrap my mind around.  That, IMO, can quite definitely be labeled as the opposite of justice, or “injustice.”  

On the other hand...I, in my subjective mind, draw a distinction between violent and non-violent crime.  I think that there is a tremendous difference between someone laying their hands on another and something that does not involve violation of body autonomy—and that person who attacked another really needs to be in jail IMO for as long as they need to be until they are no longer a threat to society.  I have compassion for the person whose face will never be the same because someone cut it, or the person who will never move the same again, because they got hit in the neck with a barstool.  My compassion for the perp was left in my other pants.  That’s all on a different level than fraud to me.  

But I can see the other side—a lot of people would rather take a punch to the face than get the message from Bank of American that their bank account has been wiped out.  I get that.  There’s a grey area there, and I guess that’s what makes the discussion so interesting.  

On the other hand (anyone who is still reading..I warned you this would be tedious 😫🤠 🤗)...businesses are, or should be, sophisticated enough to predict how much “defaults”(whether legal, through “legit” bankruptcy, or fraudulent, of which Teresa’s was the latter, by her own admission) will cost.  There are algorithms available and software to absorb a certain amount of loss.  Bankruptcy is legal, yet a lot of businesses get stiffed on that.  It’s literally the cost of doing business.

I think it matters to an extent that Teresa did not bilk the businesspeople legally, but I also think that businesspeople have a responsibility to protect themselves.  A lot of contractors—for whatever reason—do work and expect payment after the fact, instead of getting paid in stages.  I spent a good part of my childhood in small claims court at night, with my dad, the contractor, suing peeps for not paying him for services rendered.  At some point, even as a kid, I had to look at my dad and do one of these —> 🙇‍♀️.  Freud might theorize that I went to law school in an effort to rectify the chaos of a child of disorganized businessperson.  At some point, ignorance becomes sin.  

On that note, Teresa bears responsibility here.  She didn’t *just* sign some documents without looking at them (although I never got the full “story” behind her and Juicy’s schemes; with fraud there is always a story; it bothers me that I know Frank Catania’s story of dipping into his clients’ IOLTA accounts to make pay roll at his gym, but somehow it is impossible for me to find exactly what the Juicys were attempting to do over the course of their fraud).  Bringing it to the level of abstraction of “signing some documents” reminds me of the movie Blow and that awesome scene where Johnny Depp, as George Jung, told the judge he was not drug trafficking, he was bringing “some plants” over an “imaginary line”!  And she threw the book at him, 😆.  All crimes can be boiled down to a level of abstraction that makes them sound absurd.  A man who chops his wife up with a machete can accurately be described as a man who is going to jail for “waving his arm a series of times.”  If it’s a crime to sign fraudulent documents, then you got to pay the piper (which she did, which makes it even more grey to me). 

And Teresa didn’t have to go to jail—the judge is on record as saying she was completely prepared to give Tre probation, but she (the judge, who is now deceased) was so appalled by the lack of disclosure on Teresa’s forms that she felt she had no choice but to send her to jail as a lesson.  That makes me shake my head.  Teresa blamed her lawyers.  If she is a mom to four beautiful daughters and her freedom is on the line...dude, get better lawyers.  I don’t believe her.  When she gets a verdict in her favor in a malpractice suit against her former counsel, I’ll say she can tell her story without walking.  

She did pay restitution, but I believe that was only $444,000 or something, and not the $11 million they owed.  But, again, how do we reconcile bankruptcy with the fact that the people Teresa did business with didn’t get paid?  Something being legal doesn’t restore the money to the business people’s bank accounts, right?  Would it have been significantly more moral if Teresa had gone through legal channels, but the businesspeople still weren’t paid?  There are real questions that I wrestle with. 

I understand a visceral reaction to her that one cannot get past.  I have that reaction to Michael Vick—I know the judge threw the book at him, and I will never feel like he is alright with me, society, or God, so I’m not going to ask anyone to forgive Teresa, because that would make me a hypocrite.  

I am just going to say that some degree of relativism comes into my analysis.  She did go to jail, she did have to work and pay restitution and, as someone who formerly had an internship with the Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office, I can say with complete confidence that there are many, many violent criminals walking the streets freely, with three pages of single-space rap sheets, and...no one really gives a shit.  Seeing what I saw there, at that internship, people who almost lost their lives in an assault, and their assailant gets a slap on the wrist (at best), I just can’t be bothered to, I guess, be bothered what Teresa did very much anymore, unless I think about it, and then I think it’s disappointing, and then I move on.  

I think it’s a really complicated topic and it deserves a ton of thought.  I think it is positive that we are still discussing it years later, just because it’s really layered.  I don’t really know anyone who doesn’t cheat on their federal income taxes.  I simply do not care about that, even though it’s against the law.  What about the validity of the laws?  Do those questions come into it?  For me, they do absolutely.  Not trying to be the Carrie Bradshaw Dumb Bitch philosopher on criminal justice—as if I am Tolstoy or something—but, I can’t help but wonder...at what point do crimes become unforgivable?  It’s my tenuously held opinion that Teresa can be forgiven by me at this time, yet I just wrote about 1,500 words on it, and I haven’t stated a case as to exactly why.  

I know I didn’t change anyone’s mind—I’m not even looking to change minds, because I can’t make a persuasive argument for or against full forgiveness.  I don’t think it’s just a legal thing, I think there’s a spiritual component to it, (see, Vick, Michael, above), and since I can’t claim to know what is in Teresa’s heart (she pays lip service to feeling remorseful, but it strikes me as insincere), I am not in a position to judge whether other people should forgive her.  I think it’s completely personal and individual.  At the same time, I think it advances society for us to discuss it, no matter where we come out.  

Well, I said a mouthful (without really coming to a conclusion, mind you 🙄).  I just had to get that off my chest for some reason.  I feel so much lighter now.  Please don’t mind me and continue with the regularly scheduled snark.   😇

[BrownBear2012]

On 4/25/2021 at 9:25 AM, AryasMum said:

I struggle with my opinion of Tre’s mothering.  I think she’s incredible with the nurturing part. She’s very physically affectionate - I remember a time they were all outside and Tre was holding toddler Audrianna. Gabriella was nearby and Tre reached down and cupped her face tenderly. 
 

But then I remember the Hilton kids who received plenty of love, with no discipline, but an obsession with material things.  Tre is immature and willfully ignorant. Her children run rings around her intellectually from about the age of five - except perhaps Audriana. As the baby of the family, and experiencing the trauma of her mom “going away” for a year, Audriana seems younger than her age. 
 

Tre is also overly reliant on her children emotionally, particularly Gia, and when Gia is gone, that burden will fall on Gabriella and Milania.  Tre always gets praise for supposedly sheltering Gabriella from the cameras, but to truly protect her from the intrusive cameras that make her uncomfortable, Tre could have chosen to leave the show. She chose the show. 

Teresa isn’t so good at the discipline thing with her kids and they’ve called her out on it. 

[mostlylurking]

I forgot to mention that absolutely amazing spread Jennifer and her mom put out!  Wow!  Jackie couldn’t put out a spread like that to save her life. Her catty comments about the mortgage and furniture were so unnecessary. And of course, she said it on the sly like a coward. She can dish it out but can’t take it. I’m so sick of her and Marge. Give me Delores, Tre, and Jen any day. 

I feel like Jen is the only one with an actual real and interesting storyline right now. Her parents and their issues, plus five children and a nice handsome husband, there’s a lot going on there and it’s actually her life. All the others storylines are either boring or feel fake to me. I like seeing the mundane, everyday life stuff and it doesn’t feel boring. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by mostlylurking

[mostlylurking]

On 4/23/2021 at 12:52 PM, heatherchandler said:

I also can do without the assistant Lexi.

Omg...when she was on the boat snootily saying Jennifer can’t read the yacht I seriously wanted to punch her in the face. Shut the fuck up, who are you???

[DeeplyShallow]

5 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I forgot to mention that absolutely amazing spread Jennifer and her mom put out!  Wow!  Jackie couldn’t put out a spread like that to save her life. Her catty comments about the mortgage and furniture were so unnecessary. And of course, she said it on the sly like a coward. She can dish it out but can’t take it. I’m so sick of her and Marge. Give me Delores, Tre, and Jen any day. 

I feel like Jen is the only one with an actual real and interesting storyline right now. Her parents and their issues, plus five children and a nice handsome husband, there’s a lot going on there and it’s actually her life. All the others storylines are either boring or feel fake to me. I like seeing the mundane, everyday life stuff and it doesn’t feel boring. 

Jennifer does more than play basketball and cut hair on a driveway. I feel like we’ve seen more of Jackie’s driveway than her house over the past 3 years

[Stats Queen]

12 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I feel like Jen is the only one with an actual real and interesting storyline right now. Her parents and their issues, plus five children and a nice handsome husband, there’s a lot going on there and it’s actually her life. All the others storylines are either boring or feel fake to me. I like seeing the mundane, everyday life stuff and it doesn’t feel boring. 

I really disliked Jen and her Paramus sunset her first season, but I really like her now.

The last couple of seasons, when she was dealing with family and family challenges (e.g., her gay brother and talking to her mom and daughter about it and her trying to understand both of her parents.

I really like her real self a whole lot, and she is a lot smarter than people give her credit for.

 

[Duke2801]

On 4/22/2021 at 9:17 PM, geauxaway said:

It’s a weird and tough time.  I’m vax’d even if I didn’t agree with it all, I did it so I can make my mom feel ok visiting us and keep my kid in school.  I got the 1 shot, the day before they called it off and like 3 days after my county opened up to gen pop (I’m not high risk).

I feel for Tre because I have been incarcerated and it fucking sucks.  I have a soft spot for her, I know not many do.  If you’ve never been on that side of it, you won’t ever understand.  Life in “camp” SUCKS.  And when we have done our time (like she has) then what.  And sorry that y’all want to make fun of her calling it camp or time away but it’s not easy.   There’s so much shame and stigma.  It’s NOT A FUN TIME.  I can’t imagine how hard it is for her to not have her parents anymore.
 

Sorry I went off there. 

I dislike Teresa for so many other reasons beyond her and her Mr Potato Head ex bilking hardworking people out of money.
Which is, in and of itself, despicable: 

She’s vapid, nasty, disloyal, and takes zero culpability in ANY situation. Ever. And she’s just so slow-witted and inarticulate, it’s almost painful to watch her try to formulate or express a thought. Mean + dumb may make for good realty tv, but it’s just the ultimate toxic personality combination. 

On 4/23/2021 at 8:09 PM, janiema said:

Jackie, Margaret and Melissa fancy themselves the cool girls. Mostly they obsess about Teresa and Jennifer. The other three seem to have fun when the three of them are together.

How do they “obsess” about Teresa? If anyone was obsessing, it was Teresa obsessing about Jackie on that trip they took [I forget the location] after she and Jackie had their altercation. The other women basically had to tell her to shut the hell up about it. 
 

And lest we forget, she was trying to make HERSELF the victim In the bl situation.:.after she was the one spreading/making up rumors about Jackie’s husband. At his own birthday party. 

Is Jackie annoying and sometimes incendiary? Yes. Is she the perfect Housewife? Far from it. But, on a personal level, do I think she’s even a fraction as toxic as Teresa? No. 

On 4/26/2021 at 4:36 PM, mostlylurking said:

It would be in character for Tre to feel threatened by Jen, but I’m honestly not getting that vibe from her.  Marge and Jackie on the other hand, their jealousy is palpable.  

And they are jealous.... why exactly? 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Duke2801

[mostlylurking]

2 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

And they are jealous.... why exactly? 

Maybe Margaret is jealous that Jennifer hasn’t completely disfigured herself with plastic surgery. Maybe Jackie is jealous that Jennifer is able to stand up for herself with people that have bad feelings towards her and not have a complete mental breakdown. I don’t know. Maybe they aren’t jealous at all. If that’s true though they sure spend a lot of time snarking on someone they claim to not care about. 

[Duke2801]

7 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

Maybe Margaret is jealous that Jennifer hasn’t completely disfigured herself with plastic surgery. Maybe Jackie is jealous that Jennifer is able to stand up for herself with people that have bad feelings towards her and not have a complete mental breakdown. I don’t know. Maybe they aren’t jealous at all. If that’s true though they sure spend a lot of time snarking on someone they claim to not care about. 

Jennifer is chock full of injections and fillers. She hasn’t gone full face lift yet, but she is 10 years younger than Marge so there’s plenty of time. Anyway I get the feeling Marge is pretty happy with the results of her plastic surgery so I don’t think there’s any jealously in that area. 

Yes Jenn very rationally and calmly defended herself when she was unhappy with Jackie’s article about her (where she claims Jackie was snarking on her parenting). Oh wait... no she didn’t. She got drunk and got into a screaming match   with Jackie. Not to mention her many drunken tirades where she’s broken glass, etc. So yeah, don’t think Jackie is looking to emulate Jenn in the emotional maturity department.
 
So maybe it’s possible people can just not like each other and not get along simply... because they don’t like each other. Or there was a misunderstanding. Or a plethora of other reasons beyond “oh she’s just jealous.” The “J” word being thrown around when women have altercations is really just kind of sexist and archaic. Not to mention tired. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Duke2801

[DeeplyShallow]

2 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

Jennifer is chock full of injections and fillers. She hasn’t gone full face lift yet, but she is 10 years younger than Marge so there’s plenty of time. Anyway I get the feeling Marge is pretty happy with the results of her plastic surgery so I don’t think there’s any jealously in that area. 

Yes Jenn very rationally and calmly defended herself when she was unhappy with Jackie’s article about her (where she claims Jackie was snarking on her parenting). Oh wait... no she didn’t. She got drunk and got into a screaming match   with Jackie. Not to mention her many drunken tirades where she’s broken glass, etc. So yeah, don’t think Jackie is looking to emulate Jenn in the emotional maturity department.
 
So maybe it’s possible people can just not like each other and not get along simply... because they don’t like each other. Or there was a misunderstanding. Or a plethora of other reasons beyond “oh she’s just jealous.” The “J” word being thrown around when women have altercations is really just kind of sexist and archaic. Not to mention tired. 

I believe they’re so jealous that they can’t see straight.

Jennifer is a “kept woman”- Marge’s entire existence has revolved around men and what she can get from them. That’s how she was raised. She married comfortably when she was with Jan but he wanted her to work. She never ended up with the life she really wanted or expected. Jen has that life- money, kids, big house, doesn’t have to work. Jan made her get a job, she was dissatisfied, cheated w the contractor. She loves Joe, but the woman had to pay off a lawsuit, sold off half of her property, lives in an unfinished house, and needs that howives money. Bitch calls Jen a concubine but she’s a SAHM of 5 kids. And Marge needs Marleny for what, exactly? Her daily iced coffee? Ok. Someone’s fronting.

Jackie- not jealous of the money. But, I believe it’s two-fold with Jackie. Anorexic personalities are uber competitive. She joined the show the same time as Jennifer and she was immediately gunning for her. I think that she’s 1- jealous that Jennifer connected so quickly and easily with Queen Bee Tre. Remember, Jackie was a fan before she joined this show. Love her or hate her (I hate her), Tre runs the show.

2- Jen is ridiculous but she’s campy. Jackie never connected with the audience the way Jen has. Jen elicits strong reactions and that bodes well for a housewife. Jackie not popular with the viewers. Sure, she lands some digs at Tre and it gets people on her side, briefly, but mostly she’s boring and annoying. People remember Jen; Jackie can be lifted right out of this show and it wouldn’t make a difference. I don’t have a need to get updates about her driveway escapades, she brings very little to the show.

Edited April 30, 2021 by DeeplyShallow

[Doublemint]

OK - something that hasn't been voiced yet regarding Dolores and not getting a mammogram for 5 years.  When you have implants, it is very possible one of the implants could rupture and leak due to the pressure.  This would mean she would need surgery to remove & replace her implants.   This is the real reason she doesn't do it on a regular basis, but she wouldn't admit it.

[Duke2801]

15 hours ago, DeeplyShallow said:

I believe they’re so jealous that they can’t see straight.

Jennifer is a “kept woman”- Marge’s entire existence has revolved around men and what she can get from them. That’s how she was raised. She married comfortably when she was with Jan but he wanted her to work. She never ended up with the life she really wanted or expected. Jen has that life- money, kids, big house, doesn’t have to work. Jan made her get a job, she was dissatisfied, cheated w the contractor. She loves Joe, but the woman had to pay off a lawsuit, sold off half of her property, lives in an unfinished house, and needs that howives money. Bitch calls Jen a concubine but she’s a SAHM of 5 kids. And Marge needs Marleny for what, exactly? Her daily iced coffee? Ok. Someone’s fronting.

Jackie- not jealous of the money. But, I believe it’s two-fold with Jackie. Anorexic personalities are uber competitive. She joined the show the same time as Jennifer and she was immediately gunning for her. I think that she’s 1- jealous that Jennifer connected so quickly and easily with Queen Bee Tre. Remember, Jackie was a fan before she joined this show. Love her or hate her (I hate her), Tre runs the show.

2- Jen is ridiculous but she’s campy. Jackie never connected with the audience the way Jen has. Jen elicits strong reactions and that bodes well for a housewife. Jackie not popular with the viewers. Sure, she lands some digs at Tre and it gets people on her side, briefly, but mostly she’s boring and annoying. People remember Jen; Jackie can be lifted right out of this show and it wouldn’t make a difference. I don’t have a need to get updates about her driveway escapades, she brings very little to the show.

I don’t think either are jealous at all. 

Marge is content working and has a happy marriage: Joe adores her. Bill and Jenn have a transactional relationship. I do not believe Marge wants to be a “kept woman” in any sense of the word. She’s an Intelligent, hardworking, independent woman. 

Jenn was just as much a “fan” of the show as Jackie, if not moreso, before they were cast. Jen’s admitted this! And she even tried out for past seasons. She’s the one who came on licking Tre’s ass, not Jackie. Jackie wasn’t  trying to be Teresa’s bestie from the get-to. Jen was though.  

If Jackie brings so little to the show, how was it that her “beefs” with both Jen and Teresa were major plot points these past two seasons? Just because she’s not the most popular Housewife—and you (general you) don’t personally care for her doesn’t mean she doesn’t bring anything to the show. 
 

Again, we like who we like and I realize I may be in a small minority of people who don’t dislike Jackie or love Jen. I’m fine with that. I just don’t believe “jealously” needs to be the go-to reason why women don’t get along. Reasons are often much more nuanced and varied than that. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Duke2801

[Hiyo]

Quote

Anyway I get the feeling Marge is pretty happy with the results of her plastic surgery

I'm glad she is satisfied with that botched trout mouth. Hopefully Jenn will have avoided that by the time she gets to Marge's age.

Quote

I believe they’re so jealous that they can’t see straight.

Very much so.

Quote

Marge is content working and has a happy marriage: Joe adores her. Bill and Jenn have a transactional relationship.

I'd say Bill and Jenn are just as content and have as happy a marriage as Marge and Joe. Their marriage now is just as real as Marge and Joe's. And at least Bill didn't have to wash Jenn's stench off of him after fucking her and having to go back to his wife. Oh wait, that was Joe who had to do that...

Quote

She’s the one who came on licking Tre’s ass, not Jackie. Jackie wasn’t  trying to be Teresa’s bestie from the get-to. Jen was though.  

They went about it differently, I suppose. Jackie tried to go after Tre from the beginning, thinking she would somehow be the new HBIC...and in backfired in her face.

Quote

If Jackie brings so little to the show, how was it that her “beefs” with both Jen and Teresa were major plot points these past two seasons?

Take away those "beefs", and there isn't much beyond that, though.

[teapot]

6 hours ago, DeeplyShallow said:

 

 

 Jennifer connected so quickly and easily with Queen Bee Tre. Remember, Jackie was a fan before she joined this show. Love her or hate her (I hate her), Tre runs the show.

 

I despise that! It was like on RHONY when everyone who didn’t get along with Bethenny had to go!

no one HW should have that kind of power!!!

[Hiyo]

Quote

I despise that! It was like on RHONY when everyone who didn’t get along with Bethenny had to go!

no one HW should have that kind of power!!!

You mean like Luanne? Ramona? Tinsley?

I don't think Tre has that kind of power, either. The only person she may have used her "power" to get rid of was Kathy, and it doesn't seem like most people miss her on the show that much anyway.

[IslandGirl]

6 hours ago, Hiyo said:

You mean like Luanne? Ramona? Tinsley?

I don't think Tre has that kind of power, either. The only person she may have used her "power" to get rid of was Kathy, and it doesn't seem like most people miss her on the show that much anyway.

Speaking of Kathy, there's a great interview with her on Bravo On Demand SD (not HD). Very interesting...

 

[mostlylurking]

16 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

So maybe it’s possible people can just not like each other and not get along simply... because they don’t like each other. Or there was a misunderstanding. Or a plethora of other reasons beyond “oh she’s just jealous.” The “J” word being thrown around when women have altercations is really just kind of sexist and archaic. Not to mention tired. 

Like I said, I have no idea if they are jealous or not. But Jackie’s catty comments about Jennifer’s house and five children (all done behindJen’s back like hello you’re on a television show) plus all Margaret’s borderline racist comments about Jen’s marriage and culture are not a good look regardless.

[IslandGirl]

1 hour ago, mostlylurking said:

Like I said, I have no idea if they are jealous or not. But Jackie’s catty comments about Jennifer’s house and five children (all done behindJen’s back like hello you’re on a television show) plus all Margaret’s borderline racist comments about Jen’s marriage and culture are not a good look regardless.

I totally agree Margaret's comments about Jen's culture have been way out of line. As for Jackie/Jen, I think Jackie likes to fancy herself the "most intelligent well-educated" woman in the room; I don't think she was prepared for how intelligent Jen actually is...

 

And what on Earth has Margaret done to herself? It looks like her face is pulled back in a pony tail!

[IslandGirl]

Also, I suspect if Jen hadn't come on all guns ablazin' with the biggest house, the most bathrooms ever, the best sunset in the Northern Hemisphere, & dissing Margaret's friend's home, Jen & Margaret could have hit it off well & been sarcastic together because they both can be pretty funny.

I couldn't stand Jen season 1, but am starting to get a kick out her; whereas I liked Margaret in the beginning, but less so now...

[nosedive]

2 hours ago, IslandGirl said:

I don't think she was prepared for how intelligent Jen actually is...

I don't know how intelligent or educated Jen is, but her grammar is atrocious.  

[teapot]

23 hours ago, Hiyo said:

You mean like Luanne? Ramona? Tinsley?

 

I was thinking Heather, Kristen, Jules & Radzi!
 

(maybe some of them quit, what do I know…??)

[Hiyo]

Jules probably quit due to the nasty divorce that was happening in her own life at the time. I think Carole sealed her own fate when she cussed out Andy at her last reunion. Bethanny never interacted much with Kristen, they really didn't have much beef. No clue what happened with Heather.

If Bethanny had that much power, she would have gotten Luanne fired ages ago.

[mostlylurking]

On 5/1/2021 at 9:58 AM, IslandGirl said:

Also, I suspect if Jen hadn't come on all guns ablazin' with the biggest house, the most bathrooms ever, the best sunset in the Northern Hemisphere, & dissing Margaret's friend's home, Jen & Margaret could have hit it off well & been sarcastic together because they both can be pretty funny.

I couldn't stand Jen season 1, but am starting to get a kick out her; whereas I liked Margaret in the beginning, but less so now...

I feel exactly the same way!  Jen definitely came in too hot in her first season. She was too in my face. Plus I’m from NJ and Paramus isn’t exactly hot shit (no offense intended). But she has grown on me and now I enjoy her antics and her big fat Turkish family. Jackie there’s really not much to say...she was boring then and she’s still boring now. She’s not even interesting enough to dislike. 

Marge on the other hand, I’ve always liked her. I liked how she owned her shit, like cheating on her husband. It’s fucked up but hey, it happens. I liked how when she claimed Bill was sleeping around she immediately retracted it and admitted she only said it to try and hurt Jen. I can respect that.

She’s become very hypocritical lately and that’s one thing I can’t stomach. She makes fun of Jennifer wanting a maid for her huge family, yet she has one for just herself and Joe.  She laughs about when she and Joe B were cheating on their then spouses, yet criticizes the relationships of other cast members. I could go on. I still want to like her but....she makes it difficult. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by mostlylurking

[lightninggirl]

On 4/22/2021 at 12:50 PM, TV Diva Queen said:

In regard to Jen's daughter not knowing that her grandparent's marriage was arranged.  It wasn't until I was maybe 18 when I fully realized that my yia yia (Greek gram) was 13 years old and her parents sent her to America (NYC)  ALONE to live with distant family she never met.  and then when she was 16, some Greek from their village (LOL  who is my papu/Grandfather) in Chicago became a widow and they sent my yia yia there to marry him.  1 of his kids were older than she was. (they were married until for forever and had 4 more kids)  my point:  you can hear a story your whole life, but until someone sits and explains it you, it takes a minute for it sink in.  

My husband's grandmother was French Canadian and living in the NE, and was legally married (read: pushed by her parents) at 16 to a neighbor who was a decade older. She had her first kid at 16 as well and had 6 kids, and he died a few years before my husband was born. We honestly had no idea how bad it was until I asked, "Oh, Mem, how sad it must have been when Pepe died! I'm so sad that we didn't get to know him."

She whipped around and yelled, "IT WAS THE BEST DAY OF MY LIFE! I WAS FINALLY FREEEEEEE!" We haven't brought Pepe up again. 😳 None of my husband's siblings had any idea, either.