S01.E02: Fathers

[meep.meep]

I hate to tell you this but the first season of True Detective is like the Flying Nun compared to the second season of True Detective in the misery porn department.

I agree with you about this being red herring week.  

[blixie]

Quote

Why did the dead girl's friend go to the Julianne Nicholson character with her big "secret"? What does that woman have to do with anything, other than being the friend of Mare the cop?

Because again she is accusing Mare's ex Frank, Erin's former math teacher, of sexually abusing Erin and being the father of her child. He was probably married to Mare when the abuse with Erin happened (they said the kid was a year old), understandably this young girl didn't have the chutzpah to tell Mare this to her face, especially when she's not even sure at least about the paternity? I do have to agree it's unlikely in today's world that anyone would let their teenage son commit to lifelong financial support of a child they hadn't established clear paternity of. Especially after breaking up!

Quote

Maybe she knew what it was, had eaten it before, but just didn't like that particular version. 

Or she knew what it was decided to try it (especially because she was distracted/annoyed at being ignored), and was like yuck not for me. I have certainly tried things at parties I did 'understand' and still didn't like and things I didn't understand at all and loved. I do though agree about her continuing to eat her sandwich after shaking glass all over the table, that was pretty much a GOB C'MON moment, as was the milk heaving since as pointed out else place that part of the country mostly gets milk in bags. Winslet is such a finely tuned master class actor they really don't need these kinds of over the top moments to show she's a stubborn take no shit cuss.

[SeanC]

Some real criminal geniuses in this town:

- the boyfriend lying his ass off about the incident in the woods when there are several witnesses, including the daughter of the officer he’s speaking to;

- Brianna’s father stalking a cop and then vandalizing her house with a product that can be easily traced to him because he bought it right in front of her.

[Broderbits]

55 minutes ago, blixie said:

as was the milk heaving since as pointed out else place that part of the country mostly gets milk in bags.

Paigow said in Canada milk is sold in bags, not rural PA. I'm in the US and have never seen milk sold in bags in regular grocery stores or convenience stores.

[mjc570]

5 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Colin’s quote of the day!

Expect more in incoming episodes 🤣🤣🤣

 

My favorite was: Good Nightmare.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Re: Mare spitting out the pâté at the book party - she'd already been there for a while and was still being ignored by the author guy so she'd already started drinking and then someone came by and offered her food. I think she just took it because she wanted something to eat (and possibly wasn't really listening when she was told what it was because she was so distracted by being annoyed with the guy who was blatantly ignoring her).

But it has been weird to see how what is supposed to be such a small blue collar town has a college campus, what looks like a multistory low income housing apartment building, and Dylan driving around in a car that is clearly not a cheap clunker.

13 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

If Erin suspected Frank as the baby's father, why was she pestering Dylan about baby stuff?

I don't think Erin just suspected that someone else was the father. I think she flat out KNEW that Dylan wasn't the father and lied to everyone about it. Being a pregnant high school girl in a small town is bad enough but when the father of the baby is your high school math teacher (who was possibly still married at the time) or the pastor who leads the youth group? That is major scandal and most of the time when things like that happen, the girl somehow ends up being slut shamed and blamed. It was easier for her to let people believe that Dylan was the father because that's a regular level of small town scandal. I wouldn't be surprised if she found out she was pregnant and then started dating/sleeping with Dylan to provide the cover story.

12 hours ago, Cristofle said:

I imagine there's a reason for Siobhan to cop such attitude with her mother, but it's already getting on my nerves. 

I'm guessing it's a combination of (1) blaming Mare for her brother's death, possibly because Mare was the one who was against medicating him, but maybe just because she needs someone to blame (2) blaming Mare for her parents' divorce - it's common for kids to end up picking a side when their parents split up (3) resenting the fact that she sometimes has to watch her nephew when she just wants to do regular teenage things (4) disliking the fact that Mare is a double authority figure as her own mother and a cop (5) being a teenage girl (6) the fact that Siobhan lives with Mare and not Frank means that Mare ends up being more of the day to day disciplinarian, making rules, etc.

It wasn't until I saw Siobhan in the woods with Erin that I wondered if Siobhan had been friends with Katie. It would make sense since they were around the same age, their mothers were friends, and they live in a small town so there are only so many people your own age to be friends with. If they were friends, I can see additional anger/resentment toward her mom for not solving Katie's disappearance.

[One Imaginary Girl]

I wonder why Erin's friend didn't mention the catfish guy when she was being questioned. I know that one kid said something about it, but she wouldn't know that. Plus it's not like the cops are only OK with one person knowing about it--they'd want corroboration.

[cardigirl]

6 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

I don't think Mare wrote off Katie's disappearance. I think in episode one she mentioned all the ways in which she'd tried to find leads. Katie was different then Erin in that she just disappeared. Sometimes it's harder to find a missing person than it is to investigate when a body has actually been found. And someone else may remember better than I am, but I got the impression that Katie had some drug issues and/or maybe prostitution? 

 

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea, I thought someone had implied in the first ep that Katie was maybe a prostitute but I don't know if I'm imagining that or it actually happened.

This show really is full of so many clichés, feels like a rip off of a few other shows, and is bordering on misery porn (which I think will just get worse tbh) and yet I still feel the need to continue watching it.

It was Mare who said it was likely that was what had happened to Katie, it was like looking for a needle in a haystack, to find another missing prostitute or drug addict. She said that the first time the chief suggested bringing in someone else to help with the case. 

[Vella]

Well, that got stupid and soapy really fast. 

I have never understood why show runner after show runner in these carbon copy murder series never feel that the murder of a single person is compelling enough on its own. There must be 8 other nonsensical stories flapping around at the exact same time. I can only imagine how more focused the writing might be if there was no dead son (no blinking grandson or I WANT FULL CUSTODY mother) and no love interest(why does she need a love interest???). Even the writing for Mare, our protagonist and hero is uniformly lazy and trite.  Mare comes to a crime scene, takes one picture, talks for about 15 seconds and SCENE.  Like, that's it?  It's where the body was found!  Apparently it's more important for Mare to be shown being bad at death notification, bad at interviewing Dylan, bad at handling and interviewing Brianne, bad at her job period (sure, I have time to go to a party for a guy I barely know! It's just a murder, time isn't of the essence!" Oh, and I'll go to a doctor's appointment I don't need to be at too and get near tears talking about feeling like a bad mom!") Like, it's nothing NEW, it's been done a zillion times before, right down to the outsider detective not getting a handshake when he introduces himself to our hero scene until they 'start over'.  Just once, I'd like to see writing that doesn't regurgitate the same stupid tropes that have been done before.  Right down to the gasp! surprise twist at the end of the episode.

I mean, of course I'm going to keep watching now that I know this is like the The Undoing but the poor, rural town version.  A poor, rural town that has valet parking somewhere? Sure, why not?

Edited April 27, 2021 by Vella

[aghst]

That's who Frank Sheehan is, Roy from The Office (US)!

Wow it was that long ago, now he has gray in his beard.

 

So in the first episode it was kind or romanticizing small town folk getting up and going to work jobs that they hate, how noble they were.

Now it turns out the town is full of creepy, antisocial and homicidal types.

They all know each other, grew up together but under the surface, resentments and hate that could quickly burst out.

Mare decided to humiliate Briana's family, whether she deserved it or not.  Kevin the father, well we know where Briana got her charm, is going to make things as unpleasant for Mare as possible.

They're louts and very obvious about what assholes they are.  But it's the quiet ones who may have committed more heinous acts.

I thought Jess was going to say that the baby's father was Erin's own father.  Didn't they intercut her talking while Kenny was chasing Dylan down and shooting him in the back?

 

Colin is slowly winning Mare over, kind of like Richard was slowly winning her over.  Doesn't seem like he's going to get in her way and maybe will help with the investigation.  I guess Mare is so hardened from all the heartbreaks she's endured that people have to chip through that shell before they can reach her.

[aghst]

Mare and the duck liver pate thing.

It was something to eat.  But she doesn't exactly have refined tastes.  She was eating cheese wiz in the pilot after she got home.  In this episode, her mother ordered her an extra cheesesteak sandwich and she got a sandwich out of that convenience store (from the refrigerated section?).

After the interruption with the milk jug, she went right back to that sandwich and the ever-present bottle of beer on her hand.

She must have been out of cheese wiz.😉

[OldButHappy]

On 4/26/2021 at 1:18 AM, SnazzyDaisy said:

Frank is Mare’s ex husband, Kevin & Siobhan’s dad, little Drew’s grandad, Faye’s fiancé and Erin’s math teacher.

Busy Guy!

Thanks!

[Duke2801]

13 hours ago, Lily H said:

I'm confused. Why did the dead girl's friend go to the Julianne Nicholson character with her big "secret"? What does that woman have to do with anything, other than being the friend of Mare the cop?

I assumed it was because they (she and her husband) are both close to Mare and her ex and wanted to get their opinion/advice on how to best approach the situation. 

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

But it has been weird to see how what is supposed to be such a small blue collar town has a college campus, what looks like a multistory low income housing apartment building, and Dylan driving around in a car that is clearly not a cheap clunker.

I live in a small blue collar town and we have all of those things. Also, I thought Dylan's truck did look like a clunker tbh.

6 hours ago, aghst said:

I thought Jess was going to say that the baby's father was Erin's own father.  Didn't they intercut her talking while Kenny was chasing Dylan down and shooting him in the back?

When Erin's friend first said Erin had a secret, my immediate thought was also that Erin's father was the baby's father. And then when she went to tell who she told, I figured that woman's husband, who is Erin's father's cousin, was the baby's father. And then when they were showing the shots of Erin's father's other cousin looking upset, I thought maybe he'd turn out to be the baby's father. Earlier in the ep, I thought maybe the priest guy was the real father. So basically, I think every male character is potentially the baby's father lol.

[chediavolo]

On 4/26/2021 at 12:06 AM, cardigirl said:

I did, from a mile away. Whether or not it turns out to be true remains to be seen. 
 

Bye bye Dylan.

Me too. As soon as Mare’s ex husband said he didn’t know the victim very well but he sensed somethings was going on in the family. This shows reminds me of the British series Broadchurch, which was fantastic. 

[chediavolo]

20 hours ago, preeya said:

I was also wondering along these lines, if in fact a town that's described as small and rural would even have the facilities to host a lavish book party, let alone one that serves liver pate and has a valet stand in the middle of what looked like an empty lot.  Who were those people at the party? They certainly weren't residents of East-town.

I LOL'd when Mare stuffed the partly chewed pate behind the cushion of the sofa.

Doesn’t everyone know that pate is the result of torturing  fowl for our own Disgusting pleasure? 

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, chediavolo said:

Doesn’t everyone know that pate is the result of torturing  fowl for our own Disgusting pleasure? 

I did not lol.

[chediavolo]

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

But it has been weird to see how what is supposed to be such a small blue collar town has a college campus, what looks like a multistory low income housing apartment building, and Dylan driving around in a car that is clearly not a cheap clunker.

I live in an actual hick town(😫very misplaced& unhappy, biggest mistake of my life, but that’s me) we have a college campus as well as another not that far away.  That was an older bronco that he probably restored, not undoable. It did not look like every family was poor, more working class. Not all small towns are full of run down trailer parks. Blue collar. Not slums. 

[MaggieG]

When Mare walked into the restaurant and asked if Brianna was working, my first thought was "She's a waitress??" I mean, yes, it's her parent's restaurant but can you imagine someone giving her a bad tip or sending back an order because she got it wrong? Brianna has proven that she is a "total fucking bitch" (thanks yellow beanie girl!). After seeing her awful father, I see where she gets it. They both must walk all over her poor mother.

[chediavolo]

15 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I did not lol.

“Foie gras has been banned in many cities around the world because its production has questionable ethics, requiring ducks and geese to be force-fed to enlarge their livers until they grow up to 10 times their normal size.”

[paigow]

There are plenty of chicken / pig liver pate products in supermarkets that did not require force-feeding...

[gesundheit]

What sold me even further with this second episode is that I laughed out loud several times. Sure, it's dark humor, but a show this bleak really needs some humor to offset it and this one had it in spades.

1 hour ago, chediavolo said:

I live in an actual hick town(😫very misplaced& unhappy, biggest mistake of my life, but that’s me) we have a college campus as well as another not that far away.  That was an older bronco that he probably restored, not undoable. It did not look like every family was poor, more working class. Not all small towns are full of run down trailer parks. Blue collar. Not slums. 

Yes, I was going to say, a lot of super-tiny elite private colleges are in small blue-collar towns -- very little community engagement from the school, very little reciprocity. Not the more standard college towns we think of with big schools that employ half the town. Very separate. (And in fact DelCo has a few of these towns!)

[DoubleUTeeEff]

14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't think Erin just suspected that someone else was the father. I think she flat out KNEW that Dylan wasn't the father and lied to everyone about it. Being a pregnant high school girl in a small town is bad enough but when the father of the baby is your high school math teacher (who was possibly still married at the time) or the pastor who leads the youth group? That is major scandal and most of the time when things like that happen, the girl somehow ends up being slut shamed and blamed. It was easier for her to let people believe that Dylan was the father because that's a regular level of small town scandal. I wouldn't be surprised if she found out she was pregnant and then started dating/sleeping with Dylan to provide the cover story.

It's also possible that she knew Dylan was the father but was threatening to expose Frank unless he paid for her son's ear surgery. Frank has a lot to lose: his job and even his entire career as a high school teacher, his fiancee, his grandson and his reputation so there's a lot of motives for murder right there. I'm not saying I know where this baby daddy story is headed but I think there are still multiple explanations at this point. It's also possible that Erin's friend got it wrong and someone else is the father but she misinterpreted Erin and Frank's relationship as inappropriate when in fact it was entirely appropriate. It could be that Erin and Frank became close but there was nothing more to it other than student/teacher. Frank might still be worried about how that would look and that's why he tried sussing out Mare. It's so early in the season that I tend to lean toward Frank being a red herring but maybe this information about Frank is something that is related to Erin's murder, like if Faye found out about it. (ETA: Faye did seem super interested in the conversation Mare and Frank were having outside while she was inside reading or whatever.)

ETA: More evidence that Erin asked someone who said yes for the ear surgery is that she told her dad that she got the money when he asked whether "the father" was going to pay for it. That could be evidence she thought she was getting it from the actual father or possibly someone else who had taken advantage of her since we know Dylan said no.

Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't found out that Erin was pregnant at the time of her death. That is one cliche the show has avoided so far. Of course, we're only in episode two! Anything could happen.

Edited April 27, 2021 by DoubleUTeeEff
speculation about Faye

[BingeyKohan]

I am all in on this show.

Is there a hard and fast rule that the perpetrator ends up having been someone introduced in the first (or second) episode? Every suspect we've met so far since a little too neat or predictable so I wonder if it will end up being someone we haven't met. 

Did the info about Erin's phone indicate that, even though we (and the other teens) last saw her in the woods (which I am taking to be not that far from where she was found) her phone tracing actually indicates she went several miles away a couple hours after that? Meaning maybe she left the woods with someone, was killed elsewhere, and was later returned to those woods? (or maybe she never left the woods and only her phone did)

The teenage girl who censored herself after calling Briona a "fuck*ng b*tch" is also Mare's daughter's girlfriend, yeah?

Was Erin killed on the exact 1-year anniversary of Katie's disappearance? Or just roughly a year later? (Surely Katie's 1-year anniversary of being gone didn't coincide with the anniversary of that basketball game AND Erin's murder - that would be too much.)

Finally, are they kidding with the name of Evan Peters' character (Colin Zabel) relative to the name of the show's director (Craig Zobel)?

[lakin1013]

12 hours ago, Vella said:

Well, that got stupid and soapy really fast. 

I have never understood why show runner after show runner in these carbon copy murder series never feel that the murder of a single person is compelling enough on its own. There must be 8 other nonsensical stories flapping around at the exact same time. I can only imagine how more focused the writing might be if there was no dead son (no blinking grandson or I WANT FULL CUSTODY mother) and no love interest(why does she need a love interest???). Even the writing for Mare, our protagonist and hero is uniformly lazy and trite. ...

THIS.  Some posters are comparing this to Broadchurch.  I LOVED Broadchurch and I have been wondering why my response to this show is not the same.  I think partly because they are literally throwing characters at us.  There are 2 TWO dead girls and I have to remember the two men who are dragged to notify the dead girl's father, Kenny.  TWO dead girls and I know that Beth's mother is dying of parkinson's and her brother is an addict who steals from her.  It is either a mass murder where the entire town did it, or this is characterization by scatter shot.  

In Broadchurch, it went much deeper into the two detectives and the family of the dead child.  Things may turn around but if I have to learn everyone's first name in town, I am no longer watching :-)

[cardigirl]

2 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

It's also possible that she knew Dylan was the father but was threatening to expose Frank unless he paid for her son's ear surgery. Frank has a lot to lose: his job and even his entire career as a high school teacher, his fiancee, his grandson and his reputation so there's a lot of motives for murder right there. I'm not saying I know where this baby daddy story is headed but I think there are still multiple explanations at this point. It's also possible that Erin's friend got it wrong and someone else is the father but she misinterpreted Erin and Frank's relationship as inappropriate when in fact it was entirely appropriate. It could be that Erin and Frank became close but there was nothing more to it other than student/teacher. Frank might still be worried about how that would look and that's why he tried sussing out Mare. It's so early in the season that I tend to lean toward Frank being a red herring but maybe this information about Frank is something that is related to Erin's murder, like if Faye found out about it. (ETA: Faye did seem super interested in the conversation Mare and Frank were having outside while she was inside reading or whatever.)

ETA: More evidence that Erin asked someone who said yes for the ear surgery is that she told her dad that she got the money when he asked whether "the father" was going to pay for it. That could be evidence she thought she was getting it from the actual father or possibly someone else who had taken advantage of her since we know Dylan said no.

Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't found out that Erin was pregnant at the time of her death. That is one cliche the show has avoided so far. Of course, we're only in episode two! Anything could happen.

Great post, and I'm very intrigued by the idea that perhaps Erin could have been extorting the money for the ear surgery from Faye (or someone else) and that's what got her murdered. Whether or not Frank is a red herring baby daddy and Faye was protecting her fiance, and her future, it's an idea that hadn't crossed my mind. It wouldn't tie in to Katie's disappearance though, unless Faye is a serial maniac, which remains to be seen. 😉

[paigow]

Whoever the killer is has not watched much TV

• Dump body in the open, unburned
• Strip the body completely or leave it fully clothed to confuse profiling

[chediavolo]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

There are plenty of chicken / pig liver pate products in supermarkets that did not require force-feeding...

The waitress said it was duck. 

[wovenloaf]

I don’t think they are really supposed to be in a “rural” area like a lot of the comments are saying (and like some parts of the show are making it seem).  “Small town” type of community, yes.  But they are supposed to be in Delaware County, much of which is just Philly suburbs.  DelCo ranges from bordering Philly on the eastern end to being more spread out and having farms to the west – with a variety of towns, some similar to the one in the show, in between.  But they are not remote or out in the boondocks where it’d be surprising to have a college nearby.

Edited April 27, 2021 by wovenloaf

[cardigirl]

3 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

I am all in on this show.

Is there a hard and fast rule that the perpetrator ends up having been someone introduced in the first (or second) episode? Every suspect we've met so far since a little too neat or predictable so I wonder if it will end up being someone we haven't met. 

When writing mystery novels, there are rules called "play fair" that the writer uses with the reader, in which clues must be given and the murderer should be introduced early in the book, and not be brought in halfway through or towards the end. If done skillfully and artfully enough, the reader is not supposed to notice when a clue has been given (or at least, not immediately) or guess who the murderer is right away. 

I can think of one book I read where the murderer was actually introduced in the very first paragraph, and I had no idea until almost the end that he was the one, the writer was just that good.  In another book, a clue was given in the first few pages, but it wasn't until the end of the book that it was revealed as a clue and I had to go back to the beginning because I didn't believe the writer had really given that clue, and yet, there it was. 

I'm not sure it's a rule for television or movies, but if the writer is skillful enough, it makes the mystery so much more worthwhile if they can give the audience everything they need to solve the mystery, without being too obvious. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

A scene where Lori is telling her daughter, Moira that she cannot ditch her current date for a better one... is this just a filler scene or a subtle clue to something?

Where is Erin’s pink bike? Will the bike be one of the best clue in solving her murder? The bike went missing between the time Erin arrived at the party and midnight, after she walked into the woods.

[tennisgurl]

19 hours ago, SeanC said:

- the boyfriend lying his ass off about the incident in the woods when there are several witnesses, including the daughter of the officer he’s speaking to;

 

Not to mention it was all being filmed on someone's phone, in fact I think it was being filmed by one of the bullies, and they apparently put it online. What a grade A idiot. 

As others have said, the fancy private college in the middle of a blue collar town is very accurate and I wouldn't be surprised if that dynamic comes into play. Big state schools usually have more of a symbiotic relationship with the town they reside in where half the town works there and a lot of the towns income is from the school and its students, but there are a lot of schools, especially smaller ones, that are tiny islands of wealthy intellectuals living in these working class towns with almost engagement with the community by the college or people from the town interacting with the college. So you can get fancy parties with bougie food and valets only a few miles from low income housing plagued with drugs and crime and the college students and professors and such and the "townies" rarely mix. It would be interesting if Mare finds a connection between the murder and the college and that creates tension, especially as she's kind of dating the professor. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by tennisgurl

[paigow]

1 hour ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Where is Erin’s pink bike? Will the bike be one of the best clue in solving her murder? The bike went missing between the time Erin arrived at the party and midnight, after she walked into the woods.

There is a montage of scenes in the initial promo trailer... the bike is recovered from a pond / deeper part of the river

[Snazzy Daisy]

42 minutes ago, paigow said:

There is a montage of scenes in the initial promo trailer... the bike is recovered from a pond / deeper part of the river

The bike could be found somewhere near Erin’s cellphone last ping, 13 miles away from where her body was found. Mare and her team have not canvassed that area yet right? I guess Mare is too busy vaping... 🙄

Edited April 27, 2021 by SnazzyDaisy

[preeya]

1 hour ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Mare and her team have not canvassed that area yet right? I guess Mare is too busy vaping... 🙄

She certainly gives the impression that she has no sense of urgency. None, nada, zippo.

[paigow]

Is 13 miles still in her jurisdiction? Or is her jurisdiction wherever she goes? Like a Wakandan...

[Laurawithcats]

Hi. New here. Love the show, so far. Hope it doesn't have a horrible ending the same as a couple of recent HBO series.

 

A few observations. Mr. Red Flag Professor, could he be using Mare for a character analysis for a new book? Bc there's a lot wrong with inviting someone as a date to a function and ignoring them all evening. That is, until they leave. 

Mare's daughter, Siobhan? Where was she all day when Mare tried to call her? That was strange. But more then that, Siobhan had 2 very different conversations about what happened the night she saw Erin being beat up. One conversation with her mom and one with Colin, the new detective. I watched the show twice to make sure. 

Conv with her mother:

M - "and what did she say?"

S - "nothing."

M - "Nothing?"

S - "she just looked at me and walked off."

Conv with Colin at police station

S - "I asked her if she needed a ride home. *She said no and pushed me away.*"

Siobhan never told her mother Erin said "no." And "looked at me and walked off" is very different from, "pushed me away."

In addition this next part seemed like textbook what a person would say. It seemed forced.....

Siobhan still talking with Colin..

"I've been thinking about that a lot and what if she'd come home with me? What if I pressed her harder?"

 

Maybe this is nothing. Just a few observations. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Laurawithcats
Added a word

[Mr. R0b0t]

On 4/25/2021 at 11:18 PM, SnazzyDaisy said:

Frank is Mare’s ex husband, Kevin & Siobhan’s dad, little Drew’s grandad, Faye’s fiancé and Erin’s math teacher.

Khaleesi of the Green Grass, Breaker of Chains, Mother of Dragons...

oops wrong show.   I def feel like we're drowning in red herrings at the moment.  It was weird to be discussing a gunshot that the audience never got to even see....just a strange directing choice.  If you kill a gal in the woods do you circle back towards tons of witnesses to grab a unique bicycle?

Dylans Bronco would sell for 25-30k if the inside is as nice as the outside.

Also, no way would the state grant full custody to the mom if everything we believe to be true about her is without more distance between her and rehab (and a job, stable home, etc.)

[BC4ME]

What if Frank ends up being the father of both those little kids -- DJ and Drew? I know it's a long shot but I just wanted put it out there because I'm not good at predictions so going out on a limb here.

6 hours ago, Laurawithcats said:

\In addition this next part seemed like textbook what a person would say. It seemed forced.....

Siobhan still talking with Colin..

"I've been thinking about that a lot and what if she'd come home with me? What if I pressed her harder?"

That statement seemed really suspicious to me as well. Overcompensation for empathy to cover up what?

Edited April 28, 2021 by BC4ME

[FemmyV]

13 hours ago, wovenloaf said:

I don’t think they are really supposed to be in a “rural” area like a lot of the comments are saying (and like some parts of the show are making it seem).  “Small town” type of community, yes.  But they are supposed to be in Delaware County, much of which is just Philly suburbs.  DelCo ranges from bordering Philly on the eastern end to being more spread out and having farms to the west – with a variety of towns, some similar to the one in the show, in between.  But they are not remote or out in the boondocks where it’d be surprising to have a college nearby.

I think 3/4 of the country must be so completely filled up by suburbia they have no idea what the small cities in the Northeast look like. 

 

15 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

I have never understood why show runner after show runner in these carbon copy murder series never feel that the murder of a single person is compelling enough on its own.

What if there is only one murder? Is it possible Katie is alive somewhere? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

17 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

It's also possible that she knew Dylan was the father but was threatening to expose Frank unless he paid for her son's ear surgery. Frank has a lot to lose: his job and even his entire career as a high school teacher, his fiancee, his grandson and his reputation so there's a lot of motives for murder right there. I'm not saying I know where this baby daddy story is headed but I think there are still multiple explanations at this point. It's also possible that Erin's friend got it wrong and someone else is the father but she misinterpreted Erin and Frank's relationship as inappropriate when in fact it was entirely appropriate. It could be that Erin and Frank became close but there was nothing more to it other than student/teacher. Frank might still be worried about how that would look and that's why he tried sussing out Mare. It's so early in the season that I tend to lean toward Frank being a red herring but maybe this information about Frank is something that is related to Erin's murder, like if Faye found out about it. (ETA: Faye did seem super interested in the conversation Mare and Frank were having outside while she was inside reading or whatever.)

If Erin knew that Dylan was the baby's father, why would her best friend Jess have just told two different adults that Dylan wasn't the baby's father? Why would Jess lie about that? Her exact words were: "Erin told me a secret. She made me promise never to tell anyone....Dylan isn’t the baby’s real father. Erin wouldn’t tell me who the real father was but I think it’s Frank Sheehan." As convoluted as these murder mystery shows can get with all the different characters' lies, I think that what Jess told her mom and Mare's friend was the truth (or at the very least the truth as she knows it, meaning it's exactly what Erin told her).

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ETA: More evidence that Erin asked someone who said yes for the ear surgery is that she told her dad that she got the money when he asked whether "the father" was going to pay for it. That could be evidence she thought she was getting it from the actual father or possibly someone else who had taken advantage of her since we know Dylan said no.

At the time that Erin's dad asked about the ear surgery, he was already cranky about work and then he turned his attention to "shit for brains" (his words) aka Dylan who he clearly hated. On top of his obvious disdain for Dylan, Erin's dad was also mad about how much he was paying for the baby's formula and diapers. At the time, I thought Erin told her dad that Dylan had agreed to pay for the surgery because she didn't want to make him angrier. I've been in a similar situation where you know this volatile person is already worked up and when they move onto something that is clearly a sore subject with them, you know it's partly because they want an excuse to get even angrier. Telling them what they want to hear to calm them down is a way to temporarily diffuse the situation. It's a coping mechanism when you live with a ticking time bomb. And even after she tried that approach, her dad insisted on escalating his anger, yelling about how he was tired of paying for Dylan's baby and that he wasn't going to pay for anything else anymore. I thought her lie was to try to placate him and buy her some time.

Edited April 28, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Cheezwiz]

1 minute ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And even after she tried that approach, her dad insisted on escalating his anger, yelling about how he was tired of paying for Dylan's baby and that he wasn't going to pay for anything else anymore. I thought her lie was to try to placate him and buy her some time.

That's exactly how I interpreted that scene as well. She was just trying to prevent him from exploding at her.

[Affogato]

On 4/26/2021 at 9:37 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

But it has been weird to see how what is supposed to be such a small blue collar town has a college campus, what looks like a multistory low income housing apartment building, and Dylan driving around in a car that is clearly not a cheap clunker  

 

I don’t know about the car but I have a friend in northwestern rural Pa near a town that has a college and low income housing. Eastown is supposed to be much less rural, like a suburb of PA? 
 

 Wasn’t Dylan in a truck? A pickup is used for work so likely to be not a clunker and unlike Erin he is a guy. Investment in future?

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Affogato

[blixie]

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Wasn’t Dylan in a truck? 

No he was in a nice looking, well cared for newish Jeep Wrangler and it's like cornflower blue. 

[cardigirl]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If Erin knew that Dylan was the baby's father, why would her best friend Jess have just told two different adults that Dylan wasn't the baby's father? Why would Jess lie about that? Her exact words were: "Erin told me a secret. She made me promise never to tell anyone....Dylan isn’t the baby’s real father. Erin wouldn’t tell me who the real father was but I think it’s Frank Sheehan." As convoluted as these murder mystery shows can get with all the different characters' lies, I think that what Jess told her mom and Mare's friend was the truth (or at the very least the truth as she knows it, meaning it's exactly what Erin told her).

I agree that Jess told what she knew, and added what she thought she had figured out. Why and how Erin had pressured Dylan into claiming the baby as his when it wasn't is interesting as well. But what is truly interesting is if Frank is involved is ANY way, either as a patsy or the real father, it does give his fiancee a motive if Erin was pressuring him for the cash for the ear surgery. 

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At the time that Erin's dad asked about the ear surgery, he was already cranky about work and then he turned his attention to "shit for brains" (his words) aka Dylan who he clearly hated. On top of his obvious disdain for Dylan, Erin's dad was also mad about how much he was paying for the baby's formula and diapers. At the time, I thought Erin told her dad that Dylan had agreed to pay for the surgery because she didn't want to make him angrier. I've been in a similar situation where you know this volatile person is already worked up and when they move onto something that is clearly a sore subject with them, you know it's partly because they want an excuse to get even angrier. Telling them what they want to hear to calm them down is a way to temporarily diffuse the situation. It's a coping mechanism when you live with a ticking time bomb. And even after she tried that approach, her dad insisted on escalating his anger, yelling about how he was tired of paying for Dylan's baby and that he wasn't going to pay for anything else anymore. I thought her lie was to try to placate him and buy her some time.

I think she was trying to placate him as well, but also may have had a plan to get the money from the "real" father somehow. Possibly by extortion, and that may have been what got her killed. 

[SallyAlbright]

I grew up very near to the real area this show is set in, in one of the different suburbs nearby. It's a little more blue collar or working class than some of the places around it, but not rural and certainly not quite as run down as this show makes it look. There are a lot of wealthy, even snooty Philly suburban towns very close to it (like where I'm from, where high school kids drive BMWs). I think a lot of the setting we're seeing is to build atmosphere, and show the difficulty of Mare's life, so I'm okay with it but it's a very specific view that makes the area look a little more isolated, depressing and "methtown, USA" than it really is. 

They actually filmed the show in Aston, PA, though, which might be causing some of the confusion. I guess "Mare of Aston" didn't sound as good? 

The Wawa obsession is spot on, though 😂

Edited April 28, 2021 by SallyAlbright

[ElectricBoogaloo]

28 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Why and how Erin had pressured Dylan into claiming the baby as his when it wasn't is interesting as well.

I don't think she pressured Dylan into pretending the baby was his. I think she slept with him so he had reason to believe he was the father. Based on his explanation about the attic, it sounded like they were sexually involved for a little while (not just a one time thing) and Dylan probably had no reason to think that she was hooking up with anyone else.

[Pike Ludwell]

 

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If Erin knew that Dylan was the baby's father, why would her best friend Jess have just told two different adults that Dylan wasn't the baby's father? Why would Jess lie about that? Her exact words were: "Erin told me a secret. She made me promise never to tell anyone....Dylan isn’t the baby’s real father. Erin wouldn’t tell me who the real father was but I think it’s Frank Sheehan." As convoluted as these murder mystery shows can get with all the different characters' lies, I think that what Jess told her mom and Mare's friend was the truth (or at the very least the truth as she knows it, meaning it's exactly what Erin told her).

Good point. Jess only said Erin told her Dylan wasn't the father. It was Jess herself who said *she* thinks the father was Frank. I think Erin did tell Jess that Dylan wasn't the father, because Jess's reactions when she was alone - crying alone about the secret - and then immediately with her mother indicate such. But I don't think the father was necessarily Frank. 

For Erin to have known Dylan wasn't the father she must have been on birth control when she was with Dylan. They must have had sex at a time fitting with the time frame of the pregnancy.  Otherwise Dylan wouldn't have bought into him being the father. And if she had sex with Frank, it would have to have been around the exact same time, but she wasn't on birth control with him. Seems strange.

I think it's impossible now to figure it all out. We'll need further new facts. Maybe some set of facts will emerge showing a motive by Mare's mother, or Erin's friend, or Frank's fiance, or Siobahn - many possibilities are imaginable.

I agree with others that Siobahn is withholding a lot of things. Mare gave up questioning her in the bedroom way too quick, saying she was too angry and Siobahn would be questioned at the police office next day. So, next day she's questioned by Zabel, who's style is to treat everyone with total kid gloves and get upset if the questioning grows intense, and he bought into everything she said. I too got vibes of deception from that interview and would not rule out her or her girlfriend as the perpetrators. One possibility of many.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Pike Ludwell

[paigow]

23 minutes ago, Pike Ludwell said:

Good point. Jess only said Erin told her Dylan wasn't the father. It was Jess herself who said *she* thinks the father was Frank. I think Erin did tell Jess that Dylan wasn't the father, because Jess's reactions when she was alone - crying alone about the secret - and then immediately with her mother indicate such. But I don't think the father was necessarily Frank. 

We need a new title character - Maury Of Easttown

[Pike Ludwell]

41 minutes ago, paigow said:

We need a new title character - Maury Of Easttown

LOL. Definitely setting up to be a convoluted mix of teen pregnancy, paternity questions, adultery, teachers, etc.