S11.E08: Memorial Mayhem

[applecrisp]

16 hours ago, TexasGal said:

Is Joe trying to make this the most awkward 24 hours of a group trip ever?

Also, I’m a month into a low carb diet and I really, really wanted to see those donuts.

Yes was waiting for the donut reveal myself

[BrownBear2012]

Frank, Bill, Evan, Joe & Joe looked pretty sunburned at the pre memorial dinner out...wow...is there no sunscreen on the Jersey Shore?

[ichbin]

4 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Because it's being filmed for the show, and Bravo is probably picking up the tab as a production cost?

Not sure about that.  I remember reading a few times that the glam squads during filming and trips are paid for by the housewives and not production.

2 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

What I remember about Nonno was that he treated his son like crap and loved his son in law more. Was there a televised memorial for Nonna since she's the one that put up with him all those years? Oh, that's right, they couldn't because Tre was in jail! 

It has been mentioned in the past and again just recently by Joe Giudice  that Joe Gorga was responsible for the loss of his parent's home and that they lived with Teresa as a result of that. If true it is possible there could have been reason  for a rift in that relationship.  The mother died pre-covid times and there would have been a memorial service at the time of her death which I believe was not during filming.  Also, T's parents weren't as well featured on the show as Nonno himself was after the death of his wife. Teresa was released from prison more than a year prior to her mother's death.  Joe was in prison then.

3 hours ago, geauxaway said:

Yah, I wasn’t ripping on their house either.  I’m thoroughly confused because the inside does not match the outside (to me)!  Like the inside just looks so much bigger than that street view.  

It's like the TARDIS!

1 hour ago, BrownBear2012 said:

The fact that he was estranged from his sister for so many years and never reconciled, even in his final days, says alot about him.

We don't know the cause of that.  From what I recall the only people who talked about it were Kathy, Rosie, and their mother, and it is doubtful any of them were going to put themselves in a non-favorable light. I think I remember reading that Kathy and Rosie have brothers with some unsavory history but we never heard about them on the show either.  It is possible that there could have been an understandable reason for the estrangement. Blood relations are just as capable of doing relatives dirty as much as anyone else.  Without the details, if there is any blame we don't know where it lies.

16 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

  Also, does any viewer give a shit that a not-so-attractive lady who is on her second marriage had sex with a man at 22? 

Particularly since she seems to proudly tell all and sundry that she had an affair which lasted for quite some time with #2 which started when he was hired to work on the home she shared with #1 while they were still married.  I think I know as much as I need to about her already. She comes off too shallow to be the grande dame.

 

[heatherchandler]

41 minutes ago, ichbin said:

mentioned in the past and again just recently by Joe Giudice  that Joe Gorga was responsible for the loss of his parent's home and that they lived with Teresa as a result of that. If true it is possible there could have been reason  for a rift in that relationship.  The mother died pre-covid times and there would have been a memorial service at the time of her death which I believe was not during filming.  Also, T's parents weren't as well featured on the show as Nonno himself was after the death of his wife. Teresa was released from prison more than a year prior to her mother's death.  Joe was in prison then.

 

 

Yes I believe Joe Gorga had bought his parents a house when the gettin was good and home loans were easy to get and then he made them move out of it when times took a turn.

Remember there WAS a memorial for Nonna and Joe and Melissa SKIPPED IT because they were on vacation!  Teresa brought it up like 100 times a few seasons ago.  I think when they were at some cabin... (a friend of Siggy owned it?)

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by heatherchandler

[geauxaway]

53 minutes ago, ichbin said:

It's like the TARDIS!

Melissa Gorga could never!  😂

[JAYJAY1979]

Watching Jersey always reminds me of how the OC used to be in the first several season.s  Fun moments, husbands that were interesting(not necessarily likable though), family scenes, and some good fights.

I'm hoping during OC's hiatus, that the producers study old episodes..and watch NJ to remind them of what they once were.

And Evan is eye candy to me.  Can he still appear even if Jackie is dropped?

[ichbin]

5 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

And Evan is eye candy to me.

I keep seeing people saying this.  I must be in the minority because every time I see him I am reminded of that church fresco which was ruined by a parishioner attempting an amateur restoration.

[LibertarianSlut]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

Remember there WAS a memorial for Nonna and Joe and Melissa SKIPPED IT because they were on vacation!  Teresa brought it up like 100 times a few seasons ago.  I think when they were at some cabin... (a friend of Siggy owned it?)

 

Yeah, good recall!  They were in Oklahoma.  Since I am watching the Masters without a whole lot else to do, I went back to that episode’s thread to read more about it.  I’m quoting myself again:

On 11/22/2018 at 12:16 AM, LibertarianSlut said:

As soon as Teresa said that Melissa and Joe went off to the Bahamas on the first anniversary of their mom's death, I was like, "oh, because they didn't want to exploit a death for TV, so they skipped the country." 

I stand by what I said, even if that makes me bedfellows with the Gorgas.  Teresa was so angry that the Gorgas were not at the one year memorial for her and Joe’s mom, and I was convinced then and I am convinced now that it was due in large part to the fact that their lack of presence made it more difficult for Teresa to exploit this for TV, the way she did with Giacinto.  Back then Teresa was working really hard to make ends meet, because her husband was in jail, and I truly believe she didn’t think there was anything wrong with killing two birds with one stone—put her (real) grief on camera and make a buck off of it.  Her problem was that the Gorgas thwarted her efforts.  This is sick shit to me.  

The death thing—whether it’s Bethenny with Dennis, Jill having part of Bobby’s funeral on the RH when she was no longer even on the show—will always be a bridge too far for me.  I will never be ok with trading on grief in a commercial way.  Conversely, I don’t care at all that Teresa went to and came home from jail as the cameras were rolling and her kids didn’t get a private scene with her—I put that in the category of “everyone’s got to put food on the table.”  When the death of someone else is involved, that is where I draw the line.  It’s not civilized.  

Even if Giacinto was ok with it—even if there was a signed, notarized letter from him saying that it was ok for his kids to put his memorial on TV so that they could line their pockets and stay on TV—it’s so distasteful to me.  I’m not saying it should be illegal, I’m not saying it should be banned, but I am putting it in the same category as the lawyers who advertise that if you were molested a priest, please call their hotline and they can get you “compensation.”  Just so gross.  

Any aura of any legitimacy of this memorial was destroyed by Jackie’s presence.  To me, there is no argument to be made that this wasn’t a TV event (as opposed to a real event that happened to be televised) if Jackie was there.  She is not a friend of the family in any way, shape, or form.  She just accused the granddaughter of the deceased of doing coke (even if it was an analogy, it kind of literally prevents her from being an appropriate guest, unless this is a charade for TV, which it clearly is).  The best argument that can be made is that Jackie is a friend of Melissa’s, and I don’t think anyone is buying that.  Melissa and Jackie film together and ally with one another—they’re not dear friends and have never claimed to be.

I’m not sure I’m ever going to feel good about this show again, or really dig its characters, which is fine—feeling good about them makes me feel bad, and being disgusted by their behavior makes me feel more normal than co-signing it.  I simply do not respect Teresa capitalizing on a death then or now, and the only thing that’s changed in the last two seasons is that the Gorgas are now joining her in this macabre display, because, let’s face it, that seven bedroom Jersey Shore house ain’t going to pay for itself.  

[jaybird2]

20 hours ago, Axie said:

Joe would end a marriage over Melissa walking in front of him and love looks like control over her?  Ummm.  Joe?  You're an ahole.

i think this is just a story line for melissa & joe.......nothing more

[FlyingEgret]

Loved Mel's workout tights - that's about all I got from this episode...

[Impalace]

6 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Same here. In fact, my Italian father held my mother in the highest regard. She also worked outside the home, he helped straighten up the house every morning before they went off to work. Everything was pretty much 50/50 with them. It was also my immigrant grandfather that put up with my drunken grandmother until death departed. No misogyny in my family.

What I remember about Nonno was that he treated his son like crap and loved his son in law more. Was there a televised memorial for Nonna since she's the one that put up with him all those years? Oh, that's right, they couldn't because Tre was in jail! 

Teresa wasn't in jail when her mother passed. I remember seeing pictures etc. 

[Stats Queen]

2 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Remember there WAS a memorial for Nonna and Joe and Melissa SKIPPED IT because they were on vacation!  Teresa brought it up like 100 times a few seasons ago.  I think when they were at some cabin... (a friend of Siggy owned it?)

I thought that was the one year anniversary of their mother’s death. 
I think Teresa was still in prison when her mom died.

[DeeplyShallow]

39 minutes ago, Stats Queen said:

I thought that was the one year anniversary of their mother’s death. 
I think Teresa was still in prison when her mom died.

No, she was alive when Teresa got out. They made a big deal about how she “lost 11.5 months” of time with her mother. The start of the next season, after her release, they showed Teresa in her car talking to someone (Joey?) about her mom being in the hospital.

[Stats Queen]

9 minutes ago, DeeplyShallow said:

No, she was alive when Teresa got out. They made a big deal about how she “lost 11.5 months” of time with her mother. The start of the next season, after her release, they showed Teresa in her car talking to someone (Joey?) about her mom being in the hospital.

Thanks for clearing that up. That was definitely the case.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Stats Queen

[stcroix]

Table for one I realize, but I've really enjoyed these shows where they were on the Jersey 'shore'(?).  I love the scenery having never been there, and all the sun, boats, clothes and jewelry.  It felt like one of the trips the housewives take on the different francises when they are able to travel.  I put up with the nonsense of the housewives and husbands-- totally saw through Melissa and Joe's acting 🙄-- but I enjoyed the show this week.  My father in law was Sicilian and a little bit gruff.  I found out it was because he was actually shy and learned how to act around him.  Nono has been a part of this show for a while now and I didn't mind them showing his memorial.  (since he agreed to be on the show so much, even when he was grieving, I don't think he'd have cared that his kids televised it.  Those two apples didn't fall far from the tree.)

Edited April 9, 2021 by stcroix
didn't make sense

[Marley]

Melissa and Joes fighting is so fake it’s almost embarrassing to watch.

Wait so Nonno was a known cheater and somehow everyone thinks Nonno and Nonna have the most epic love story ever. Yikes.

Evan isn't eye candy he seems very generic but somehow Bill is starting to look attractive to me lol. He seems like a good guy and husband and cracks me up. I like him and Jennifer. I mean I could be completely wrong but so far I like him.

I wish Gia would’ve started singing at the memorial. The classic waking up in the morning song lol. It would’ve made the episode a million times better.

Not trying to speak ill of the dead but Nonno always kind of creeped me out. Something seemed off about him. I don’t know what tho lol.

[stcroix]

1 minute ago, Marley said:

 

Evan isn't eye candy he seems very generic but somehow Bill is starting to look attractive to me lol. He seems like a good guy and husband and cracks me up. I like him and Jennifer. I mean I could be completely wrong but so far I like him.

 

I've never understood why people think Even is so hot.  I guess there's not much to pick from among the husbands on all the HW shows!  Evan has a weird shaped head and one if not both of the boys seemed to have inherited it.  And Jackie is very, very generic looking so, to me, that is one generic family. 

I totally agree with your comment about Bill, though.  The first season I couldn't figure him out-- was he handsome, was he skeevy, was he feeling above being on the show.... The second season when he got drunk and had to be carried to bed, he showed a different side and I felt we were seeing the real Bill.  I'm liking him and Jennifer,too.  She just puts it out there.  Now by next season I may hate her guts because I tend to be doing that,like I really liked Margeret her first seasons but this season I'm not on Team Marge at all.  I'll never forget her meeting up with Siggy in that diner to talk and them both arguing while ordering the most delicious and huge breakfasts! Then Siggy crying (naturally) and Margeret calmly finishing her meal while apologizing to Siggy and saying,'' I'm sorry I made you cry.  I never want to take a girl down." And shoveling more food in her mouth.  🤣 That's the Marge I like, this season's Marge-- not so much.  I think I wandered off topic, but to sum it up, now I like Bill, next season who knows?! lol

[ichbin]

7 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I stand by what I said, even if that makes me bedfellows with the Gorgas.  Teresa was so angry that the Gorgas were not at the one year memorial for her and Joe’s mom, and I was convinced then and I am convinced now that it was due in large part to the fact that their lack of presence made it more difficult for Teresa to exploit this for TV, the way she did with Giacinto.

While I see the point you are making I find it hard to believe that the Gorgas would intentionally remove themselves from an opportunity to be filmed, particularly one where they could play a starring role as the bereaved son and daughter-in-law of the departed.  Exploitation seems to be their driving force since their debut in the franchise.  

7 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

The death thing—whether it’s Bethenny with Dennis, Jill having part of Bobby’s funeral on the RH when she was no longer even on the show—will always be a bridge too far for me.  I will never be ok with trading on grief in a commercial way.  Conversely, I don’t care at all that Teresa went to and came home from jail as the cameras were rolling and her kids didn’t get a private scene with her—I put that in the category of “everyone’s got to put food on the table.”  When the death of someone else is involved, that is where I draw the line.  It’s not civilized.  

I'm 100% with you regarding Dennis and Bobby but I view Nonno as being in a different category.  While by no means a star of the show he was a recurring character with strong ties to several of the featured players and the various goings on.  I didn't see anything sordid with a tribute to him within an episode.  

[Never Again]

23 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I just buried my father yesterday, he did not want a eulogy although I did do a non mushy one anyway...he would have turned over in his grave if he thought I was droning on and on about him especially on TV, he did not enjoy being the center of attention, so much so we are not sitting shiva, also Covid reasons but do we think Nono wanted GIa to have to be filmed reading her eulogy while crying?

I’m so sorry for your loss, Betty.

[chlban]

8 hours ago, ichbin said:

While I see the point you are making I find it hard to believe that the Gorgas would intentionally remove themselves from an opportunity to be filmed, particularly one where they could play a starring role as the bereaved son and daughter-in-law of the departed.  Exploitation seems to be their driving force since their debut in the franchise.  

I'm 100% with you regarding Dennis and Bobby but I view Nonno as being in a different category.  While by no means a star of the show he was a recurring character with strong ties to several of the featured players and the various goings on.  I didn't see anything sordid with a tribute to him within an episode.  

Bobby was a recurring character on NY and never appeared anything but as a sweet, lovely man. I was saddened by his death years after he and Jill left the show.

[chlban]

If there is anyone that believes the Gorga's marriage issues represent anything more than another desperate attempt to remain relevant and in the spotlight, as Melissa does every single season, I have a bridge to sell you. At least this is more believable than "Melissa suddenly wants another child". The hard thing for me about the whe Melissa/Theresa ongoing saga is I cannot stand either if them. Melissa is slightly smarter and more cunning than Teresa, but rocks are smarter than T. 

[chlban]

Just now, chlban said:

If there is anyone that believes the Gorga's marriage issues represent anything more than another desperate attempt to remain relevant and in the spotlight, as Melissa does every single season, I have a bridge to sell you. At least this is more believable than "Melissa suddenly wants another child". The hard thing for me about the whole Melissa/Teresa ongoing saga is I cannot stand either if them. Melissa is slightly smarter and more cunning than Teresa, but rocks are smarter than Teresa, and probably also smarter than Melissa or it's a tie. Really,  this cast has just become boring. I can't believe I actually like Jennifer and Margaret the best, and I really don't like either of them.

 

[bichonblitz]

18 hours ago, jaybird2 said:

i think this is just a story line for melissa & joe.......nothing more

It will go nowhere just like the wanting another baby storyline and the mystery sister storyline. Honestly, Melissa is getting on my nerves with her never ending quest to keep relevant when in reality she is such a bore. 

[KungFuBunny]

On 4/7/2021 at 10:58 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

Jackie, I feel dirty, but I am giving you a pass this week.  Other than whispering to Teresa, which I found weird, she was a nonentity.  I hear that third place reunion chair getting greased for her as I write this.  Oh, and I’m glad Evan got strange around the world and now brags about it in mixed company.  A wonderful thing to mention when his wife is so nervous that she’s ripping the hair out of her head.  Maybe that guy with the 15K engagement ring isn’t looking so bad to Jax right now though 🤔 She looked pretty at the bullshit memorial for poor Nonno.  Not having her husband looks good on her.  
 

Jackass gets the side eye from me

I think she did it on purpose. Not to make things better between Melissa and Joe, but to weaponize Teresa. Teresa is always one hundred percent behind her brother when it comes to Melissa/Joe, she barely tolerates Melissa. I think Jackie was hoping Teresa would blow up at Melissa sticking up for her brother or side with Joe without knowing what the "fight" was about. If this were to happen, then she'd be on the sidelines saying Teresa is once again unreasonable and a psycho.

On a separate note, there are times Margaret looks younger and pretty but then she angles her face or the cameras catch her a certain way and all I see is this:

 

[ichbin]

4 hours ago, chlban said:

Bobby was a recurring character on NY and never appeared anything but as a sweet, lovely man. I was saddened by his death years after he and Jill left the show.

Sure, Bobby seemed like a fine fellow. I see a huge difference though between Bobby's funeral and Nonno's memorial  being a featured segment on an episode.  Jill had not been part of the cast for many years (from many accounts not by her own choosing and still yearning to return.) Nonno on the other hand was a featured member in the household of the longest running cast member. Most importantly, in Bobby's case it seemed like his funeral was exploited for a dramatic moment between Jill and Bethenny.  As I recall all we saw of it was people on the sidewalk.  It wasn't exactly a tribute to the man.  

Edited April 9, 2021 by ichbin
not finished

[LibertarianSlut]

14 hours ago, ichbin said:

While I see the point you are making I find it hard to believe that the Gorgas would intentionally remove themselves from an opportunity to be filmed, particularly one where they could play a starring role as the bereaved son and daughter-in-law of the departed.  Exploitation seems to be their driving force since their debut in the franchise.  

I'm 100% with you regarding Dennis and Bobby but I view Nonno as being in a different category.  While by no means a star of the show he was a recurring character with strong ties to several of the featured players and the various goings on.  I didn't see anything sordid with a tribute to him within an episode.  

I see where you’re going on your first paragraph.  Melissa has this weird power dynamic, though, where if it is not her on display, she is suddenly not as interested in being there, even if a camera is present.  (It reminds me of that story Teresa told that when one of Joe’s exes called him on Christmas Eve, Melissa left the house and wouldn’t come back).  

As far as the second paragraph, I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, and I think good minds can disagree about it, but I just didn’t want to see it.  Giacinto did have ties to the cast, but he wasn’t a regular cast member, he was controversial (I didn’t like him) and my main objection is that I believe strongly that this was put on TV to drive a storyline, not to pay respects.  Both of Teresa’s parents died when the show wasn’t filming, and I think the most the show should have done was have a “in loving memory of [first name] Gorga” at the end of the episode.  An elderly parent’s death that happened between seasons is not a fitting f/t storyline IMO.  

Moving away from respecting Giacinto and onto something related, this just makes me uncomfortable to watch.  I imagine it makes a lot of viewers uncomfortable to watch.  It feels like attempted emotional manipulation.  On OC, Emily pulling out the box of her stillborn twins made me uncomfortable.  I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do with it.  I’m not going to post how sad it is.  I’m not going to reflect on how sad it makes me, because it doesn’t.  This is supposed to be a show about entertainment.  I’m not looking to have my heartstrings pulled.  I purposely stay away from those types of shows.

I think it’s fine to mention how one feels about a loved one’s passing, maybe a montage, and, at most, a quick scene of Teresa paddling out to the ocean with a wreath to say good-bye to her mom as part of a larger ceremony for the rest of the cast to say good-bye to someone who touched them.  That’s even a little too much for my tastes.  What they did for Joe Giudice’s dad was the perfect amount of coverage for me.  Not 15 minutes devoted to someone who wasn’t a main player.  If shit were actually going on during this DOA season—if they had interesting characters who were moving and shaking, I don’t think the show would have done this, which, again, brings me around to the idea that the show is exploiting a death in an attempt to keep the audience tuned in.  If we had weddings, babies being born, fabulous home renovations, cheating scandals, and good, juicy fights with a cast that could actually argue and keep us entertained (sort of like RHNYC anything except 12), this would barely have gotten covered.  Do better, show.  Don’t use an old man’s death to fill a quarter of the ep because you have failed to cast enough interesting people.

I think one thing that is interesting is that there are two ways of seeing this—one can say that since Teresa is the main person on this cast, her father’s death should get more coverage, sort of the way that Teresa got one half of last season’s finale devoted just to her family.  I feel a completely different way though.  I think it is an ensemble cast, or should be, and I do not imagine the show would have devoted the same coverage if Melissa’s or Margaret’s mom died, both of whom have been on the show plenty.  I think the fact that Teresa gets a disproportionate amount of time is not a reason to give her more time, I think it’s a reason to have a more interesting cast, so that the producers don’t have to make a Hobson’s choice of showing a 15 minute memorial (which was the same length as my grandma’s actual funeral) or another scene of Dolores and Frank having girl-talk about Evan around the kitchen island.  We shouldn’t be subjected to either for a protracted amount of time IMO.  

And this is the last time I’m going to say it, because I sound like a broken record—Jackie being there robbed this memorial of its legitimacy.  Last season, Jackie wasn’t even invited to the obstacle course!  She is not a dear friend or family of the grieving, she is a co-star.  This isn’t an anti-Jackie or pro-Teresa argument from me—it is an argument that this was not a legitimate memorial, this was done for TV, approximately five months after Giacinto died.  If this had happened in July, as soon as some of the covid restrictions began to lift, that would be one thing, but Teresa’s divorce to Joe was finalized right around Labor Day, and the show told us that Teresa and Joe were divorced already in past episodes.  Why wait so long, if not for the TV cameras and to fill time on a dying show?  (And none of these single factors are dispositive for me; it’s the totality of the circumstances that make me want to lose my lunch).  

But that’s IMO, and life would be boring if we all agreed on everything, so I’ll shut my pie hole on this one for now.  

3 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

It will go nowhere just like the wanting another baby storyline and the mystery sister storyline. Honestly, Melissa is getting on my nerves with her never ending quest to keep relevant when in reality she is such a bore. 

She is such a bore.  And she’s mean and sneaky and underhanded.  In season six, Amber came on as Melissa’s friend, as someone she knew from her partying days.  Amber was so nice and normal to Melissa, and Melissa got in there immediately starting shit, going to Nicole and telling her shit that Amber didn’t say in order to ruin the friendship between Nicole and Amber, because that is all Melissa knows how to do.  When she’s not fighting, she is boring as hell.  

But what is even worse about Melissa IMO is that she is only on this cast because Bravo hasn’t yet gotten around to casting men.  Bravo wants “Joey” 🤮 Gorga, because of his fucked up dynamic with his sister, so instead of making him a part of Teresa’s storyline, with Melissa as a friend-of, Melissa gets to skate by as a full-time cast member who never has to do anything, because the focus is on her brother.  She is a proxy Housewife.  It’s fucked up and twisted, just like everything else with this family.  

2 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

Jackass gets the side eye from me

I think she did it on purpose. Not to make things better between Melissa and Joe, but to weaponize Teresa. Teresa is always one hundred percent behind her brother when it comes to Melissa/Joe, she barely tolerates Melissa. I think Jackie was hoping Teresa would blow up at Melissa sticking up for her brother or side with Joe without knowing what the "fight" was about. If this were to happen, then she'd be on the sidelines saying Teresa is once again unreasonable and a psycho.

Excellent analysis.  Or...or...and this has always been my theory—Jackie wanted to sow discord between Melissa and Teresa, so that she can come in on Teresa’s side.  I think Jackie—the one who stood in line at the bookstore to meet Teresa—has not given up the idea that she and Teresa can run this franchise together, hopefully as friends, but if not, as opponents.  Jackie has her eye on that first reunion chair, we should never forget that.  She will befriend and then just as quickly turn on Melissa or Teresa on a dime if it gets her there.  

If Jackie and Melissa remain on this show, there will come a point where Jackie will double-cross Melissa and Jackie will play innocent, and she will get away with it, because Melissa is a very basic person who has no ability to analyze or form a game.  I can so see it now—Melissa squinting at Jackie (Melissa does a lot of squinting; I think she thinks it makes her look smarter or younger or more J-Lo-ey) “Jackie, I told you that Joe humps muppets in confidence” and Jackie doing that nodding thing back at her, with the frozen philtrum and low-hanging upper lip, eyes black, throwing up her skinny arms, exaggeratedly shrugging like this is so beneath her, and lisping, “Melissa, I don’t know how you told me ya said it, I just know ya said it!”  Huge grin.  Camera fades to black.  

I’d actually love to see that play out.  I am so tired of this show having the same alliances year after year.  At least on NYC and BH, the reunion couches switch every season.  Why is it that I feel I can bet money on the idea that it is going to be Teresa-Dolores-Jennifer on one couch (or sets of seats) this reunion and Melissa-Margaret-Jackie on the other?  Why doesn’t Dolores fight with anyone anymore?  Because she’s phoning it in.  Why do Jackie, Margaret and Melissa only always get along?  They have nothing in common with each other; why don’t they ever show conflict on camera?  Because there is safety in numbers, and Melissa and Margaret are too stupid and afraid to get kicked off this show.  Who’s left—Jennifer and Teresa?  I’d pay good money to see them go a few rounds, but it won’t happen, because I think Teresa wants Jennifer on her side, and she’s slightly afraid of her.  I would even welcome a Jennifer-Jackie friendship, like they had in season nine, just to break up the monotony of this Iron Curtain of Left Couch versus Right Couch.  So boring!

[ichbin]

8 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Or...or...and this has always been my theory—Jackie wanted to sow discord between Melissa and Teresa, so that she can come in on Teresa’s side.  I think Jackie—the one who stood in line at the bookstore to meet Teresa—has not given up the idea that she and Teresa can run this franchise together, hopefully as friends, but if not, as opponents.

If so it would be only as opponents. Jackie has made it clear since joining that she thinks of Teresa as being inferior to herself.  I think prior to being part of the show, she probably watched it resenting that someone like T and the rest were representing NJ and thought joining would not only highlight herself but drive out the old school and usher in a new crew more like herself.  I've lived around and known people like each of them and generally they did not mix socially.  After all, Jackie has degreeS,  was a super mommy who drove a minivan, and had an educated, successful  husband in a professional field.  I think the fact that Jennifer ticked some of those same boxes while still being able to let loose and get down with the others was the main reason for the discord between them because Jennifer steers more toward the old school.  Jackie was probably brought on to be an opposite and fly in the ointment, unfortunately she isn't very interesting in a reality show kind of way and pretty much seems to just plop there waiting until the time presents itself for her to pull out a well rehearsed zinger. This year she was actually given a gift with the opportunity to shine with the Evan nonsense and has dropped that ball, resorting instead to become a kind of whiny, needy, slumped creature.  I don't think people watching these kinds of shows are tuning in for that.  Run the franchise?  At this point she seems to be having trouble running her own story line.

 

 

[marymary]

On 4/7/2021 at 7:25 PM, DeeplyShallow said:

Did I say that he isn’t allowed a memorial or that they don’t have a right to grieve? No, I didn’t.

Just because he was of a certain generation and culture doesn’t mean that misogyny, overt displays of anger, and anything else along those lines are ever ok. Excusing it as someone’s culture and generation is why we still deal with the issues that we continue to deal with in society. I am also a product of a similar culture and patriarchal society so I’m fully aware of where this man came from and I still think he was not a nice person, creepy, and overall questionable. His children are also a direct reflection of his and his wife’s parenting- they raised a willfully ignorant criminal and an oversexed neanderthal.

Of course his family can mourn him. They should. But, that doesn’t mean that others have to venerate him if they don’t believe that there’s a reason to.

Have to agree with you on the generational and culture excuse being bs. My dad is 85, born and raised in a middle eastern country, and has become one of the most liberal people I know. I’ve never been prouder, than when I saw his unconditional love and acceptance for my trans niece (his granddaughter). People can, and should, change and grow over time. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by marymary

[njbchlover]

On 4/8/2021 at 9:08 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

Tre keeps egging her girls on to cry about Nono, "don't you feel sad and miss Nono, come here let me hug you because you feel so sad about missing Nono," she did to Nono on the beach after her mother died, she did it to her girls often.  Enough already, Tre needs to stop using her kids as pawns to prove to everyone how amazing/loving/devoted/perfect the family unit was/is.

I just buried my father yesterday, he did not want a eulogy although I did do a non mushy one anyway...he would have turned over in his grave if he thought I was droning on and on about him especially on TV, he did not enjoy being the center of attention, so much so we are not sitting shiva, also Covid reasons but do we think Nono wanted GIa to have to be filmed reading her eulogy while crying?

So sorry for your loss...sending prayers to you and your family.

[Luckylondon]

On 4/8/2021 at 9:08 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

Tre keeps egging her girls on to cry about Nono, "don't you feel sad and miss Nono, come here let me hug you because you feel so sad about missing Nono," she did to Nono on the beach after her mother died, she did it to her girls often.  Enough already, Tre needs to stop using her kids as pawns to prove to everyone how amazing/loving/devoted/perfect the family unit was/is.

I just buried my father yesterday, he did not want a eulogy although I did do a non mushy one anyway...he would have turned over in his grave if he thought I was droning on and on about him especially on TV, he did not enjoy being the center of attention, so much so we are not sitting shiva, also Covid reasons but do we think Nono wanted GIa to have to be filmed reading her eulogy while crying?

I’m so sorry for your loss @Baltimore Betty. Hugs. 

The only thing I have ever related to Teresa about is the recent loss of her parents in a relatively close period of time. She talked about how it can shake your foundation a bit— and it can. For me, it can almost feel like a weird regression to adolescence and feeling like finding your way all over again. I expect this may be more so when one is without a husband or partner and that may be why she sounds like a teenager about men. That was the last time she was single and allowed to be excited about other men and she is not sure of what she is doing while simultaneously feeling confident and adventurous— looking for both companionship and a bit of escape. Historically, I usually can’t stand Teresa to the point that I half-watch Jersey because her ignorance offends me and she makes it unbearable for me to fully give it attention... yet this season, I can finally identify with her a little and I can’t help but root for her. Even when she is shrieking, spreading gossip spurned from envy, or throwing tantrums like a toddler, I am forgiving of this Teresa or at least can relate to the others in wanting her to listen so she understands so she can create a sensible outcome. I now understand how others have had Tre-love all through her nonsense and have rooted for her. I can identify now and I get how you can know she is so wrong and acting awful all over the place and still love her. I have always felt most of her mishegas was misplaced because she is just not that bright, intellectually and emotionally, and she often misperceives cues and determines comments and behaviors as a threat, her defenses go up and it’s nuclear war. I didn’t have the patience or compassion to give her a pass on her behavior. I still feel the objects of her frustrations are often the result of primitive displacement, however I can now roll with it easier and say “it’s Teresa...” and I think Jackie is a fool for not doing the same. Maybe my empathy is some weird displacement... I don’t know up from down anymore in this crazy year.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Luckylondon

[Luckylondon]

9 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

Excellent analysis.  Or...or...and this has always been my theory—Jackie wanted to sow discord between Melissa and Teresa, so that she can come in on Teresa’s side.  I think Jackie—the one who stood in line at the bookstore to meet Teresa—has not given up the idea that she and Teresa can run this franchise together, hopefully as friends, but if not, as opponents.  Jackie has her eye on that first reunion chair, we should never forget that.  She will befriend and then just as quickly turn on Melissa or Teresa on a dime if it gets her there.  

If Jackie and Melissa remain on this show, there will come a point where Jackie will double-cross Melissa and Jackie will play innocent, and she will get away with it, because Melissa is a very basic person who has no ability to analyze or form a game.  I can so see it now—Melissa squinting at Jackie (Melissa does a lot of squinting; I think she thinks it makes her look smarter or younger or more J-Lo-ey) “Jackie, I told you that Joe humps muppets in confidence” and Jackie doing that nodding thing back at her, with the frozen philtrum and low-hanging upper lip, eyes black, throwing up her skinny arms, exaggeratedly shrugging like this is so beneath her, and lisping, “Melissa, I don’t know how you told me ya said it, I just know ya said it!”  Huge grin.  Camera fades to black.  

I’d actually love to see that play out.  I am so tired of this show having the same alliances year after year.  At least on NYC and BH, the reunion couches switch every season.  Why is it that I feel I can bet money on the idea that it is going to be Teresa-Dolores-Jennifer on one couch (or sets of seats) this reunion and Melissa-Margaret-Jackie on the other?  Why doesn’t Dolores fight with anyone anymore?  Because she’s phoning it in.  Why do Jackie, Margaret and Melissa only always get along?  They have nothing in common with each other; why don’t they ever show conflict on camera?  Because there is safety in numbers, and Melissa and Margaret are too stupid and afraid to get kicked off this show.  Who’s left—Jennifer and Teresa?  I’d pay good money to see them go a few rounds, but it won’t happen, because I think Teresa wants Jennifer on her side, and she’s slightly afraid of her.  I would even welcome a Jennifer-Jackie friendship, like they had in season nine, just to break up the monotony of this Iron Curtain of Left Couch versus Right Couch.  So boring!

Melissa squinting when trying to understand and simultaneously J-Lo at someone and Jackie’s black eyes, frozen philitrum, wave arms and shrug-pause-grin as camera fades... The accuracy!! 😂🤣🤣 thank you @LibertarianSlut! 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Luckylondon

[LibertarianSlut]

1 hour ago, Luckylondon said:

Melissa squinting when trying to understand and simultaneously J-Lo at someone and Jackie’s black eyes, frozen philitrum, wave arms and shrug-pause-grin as camera fades... The accuracy!! 😂🤣🤣 thank you @LibertarianSlut! 

You’re welcome!  These heauxs have become so cartoonish that it’s getting easier to peg their moves.  Plus—hangs head—I watch each episode twice.  Once, for entertainment, the second as visual Ambien.

 

I just have a question for the board now that I re-watched—what in the H-E-double-hockey-sticks is a “real-a-tor”?

[LibertarianSlut]

On 4/8/2021 at 11:52 PM, stcroix said:

I've never understood why people think Even is so hot.  I guess there's not much to pick from among the husbands on all the HW shows!  Evan has a weird shaped head and one if not both of the boys seemed to have inherited it.  And Jackie is very, very generic looking so, to me, that is one generic family. [...]

this season I'm not on Team Marge at all.  I'll never forget her meeting up with Siggy in that diner to talk and them both arguing while ordering the most delicious and huge breakfasts! Then Siggy crying (naturally) and Margeret calmly finishing her meal while apologizing to Siggy and saying,'' I'm sorry I made you cry.  I never want to take a girl down." And shoveling more food in her mouth.  🤣 That's the Marge I like, this season's Marge-- not so much.  I think I wandered off topic, but to sum it up, now I like Bill, next season who knows?! lol

I don’t get what is “so hot” about Evan either.  I think he’s a generically good looking guy with male pattern baldness who is getting that bulbous red alcoholic nose, in addition to suddenly having a really nice, lean body.  He’s not a young man, so I’m not getting on his case, but he doesn’t seem like he would get a lot of panties dropped unless he is really good in bed or has a ten-inch wang or something.  Oh, and second season in a row I caught him, at the men’s table, making a pun about seafood and vaginas.  Very mature, Evan.  If a vagina smells like fish, it’s diseased.  If all of the vaginas with which he comes into contact smell like that, he might want to get a scrape from his doc, because the disease could very well be originating from him.  Might be time to make a long-distance call to Buenos Aires.  Just sayin.  

I love your description of the Marge/Siggy breakfast from season 8.  I used to like her a lot then too.  The common denominator, I just realized, is that Marge is a total control freak, and has been since she joined this show, but she just hid it better and the players were more willing to go along with her antics.  It comes from the lack of boundaries her mom gave her as a child.  It dawned on me when Melissa and Joe were fighting and Margaret was frowning so hard and she just had to get her two cents in there twice (so...her four cents?) about how Joe was wrong and Melissa was right.  Jackie, meanwhile, stood there quietly listening, which Margaret would never do.  

Then I realized, just as Ramona declared about Jill on RHNYC, Marge loves an underdog as long as she can control the narrative.  She is like Bethenny and Dorinda from RHNYC in that way.  She is like the opposite of a sunshine friend—she wants to be there for people when they are down, but only in a really specific type of way—as a judger of choices, as a benefactor, as someone who can bestow their opinion that you are either right or wrong before she thinks you can proceed with your own adult life.  It’s sinister and sometimes it’s subtle, as it was with Siggy, but it’s there.  

That’s why she and Jen fight like two soaked cats in a paper bag—I think the genesis of it is that Jennifer marches to the beat of her own drum and doesn’t give a shit what Margaret thinks, and, to add insult to injury, Jennifer has the audacity to judge what Marge puts out there about her childhood and her life, and that is Margaret’s kryptonite.  It’s the Achilles Heel of any control freak when someone blazes ahead with their opinion, regardless of what Control Freak wants.  It is becoming increasingly evident that Marge can only play nice in the sandbox when shit goes down exactly according to her rules.  

I think that is what hurt her the most about Teresa and the ponytail pull—it was not that Danielle pulled her hair, which was BSC, but Margaret at least saw that coming.  What she didn’t see coming was Teresa orchestrating it, because Margaret always gave Teresa a really wide berth, so it was beyond her comprehension why Teresa would fuck with her.  She fucked with you because she wasn’t over your “Classic Marge” twenty-one comment from last season in Jamaica, and because Margaret got Teresa in trouble with Danielle and Marty about whether Danielle and Marty had sex (another example of a time Margaret stuck her nose in where it absolutely didn’t belong).  Teresa holds a grudge.  Live it, learn it.  

I am just so fucking glad the bitch has evidently stopped warning everyone not to break a cankle.  She always seemed to think that line was a lot funnier than it really was.  

9 hours ago, ichbin said:

Jackie has made it clear since joining that she thinks of Teresa as being inferior to herself.  I think prior to being part of the show, she probably watched it resenting that someone like T and the rest were representing NJ and thought joining would not only highlight herself but drive out the old school and usher in a new crew more like herself.  I've lived around and known people like each of them and generally they did not mix socially.  After all, Jackie has degreeS,  was a super mommy who drove a minivan, and had an educated, successful  husband in a professional field.  I think the fact that Jennifer ticked some of those same boxes while still being able to let loose and get down with the others was the main reason for the discord between them because Jennifer steers more toward the old school.  Jackie was probably brought on to be an opposite and fly in the ointment, unfortunately she isn't very interesting in a reality show kind of way and pretty much seems to just plop there waiting until the time presents itself for her to pull out a well rehearsed zinger. This year she was actually given a gift with the opportunity to shine with the Evan nonsense and has dropped that ball, resorting instead to become a kind of whiny, needy, slumped creature.  I don't think people watching these kinds of shows are tuning in for that.  Run the franchise?  At this point she seems to be having trouble running her own story line.

 

Ha, OMG, this post was a gift.  You certainly have Jackie’s number.  I am only realizing now that any attempt to cozy up to Teresa is an attempt to stick the knife in her back, which, as you said, she possibly could have done this season, but instead folded.  I have not much more to add, except I had completely forgotten about the minivan!  She should check out Braunwyn over on the other franchise and they can commiserate together in their minivans (though, JFTR, I think Braunwyn is far worse).  That minivan was about as contrived as the birthday party for twins where Jackie threw the box of Amazon shit onto the driveway just to show how, I guess, real she is?  I’m sure she had a bigger plan than that.  I’m sure she wanted all of us to think she was one way, and as soon as we took her for granted, she was going to whip out stretch Hummers and fabulous parties and cause us to stammer and stutter about how multi-faceted she is—the all-American mom who dutifully raises children, but also flies them out to Denver Nuggets games.  How dynamic and complex!

The problem is that Jackie really never gave/got a sense of who she was—I think she thought she would come across so well that the onus was on us to take her as we found her—thus she presented as a walking book of contradictions.  There is no point in trying to untangle this web at this juncture.  If she is as smart as she seems to think she is with her degrees, she will quietly blend in to the scenery for the rest of the season, like Dolores, and not stir the pot with anyone, and no one should fight with her.  Everyone should put her in Kelly Bensimon Scary Island time out until she can get her bearings, which probably isn’t coming to a theatre near us anytime soon. 

[Polliwollidoodle]

I am so sorry for your loss, @Baltimore Betty. 

 

I enjoyed reading this thread as I finally did watch the most recent episode. I agree about squinty Melissa. There is something about her that never sat well with me, as in super contrived and phony but trying to appear genuine.

[ErikaAlyson]

I second the poster that said Melissa doesn't seem that into Joe. I was so surprised to learn how they first met last season. He's probably insecure about his height and think she's "hot" and Melissa thought maybe Joe could be a good meal ticket. But I do like both of them. I love Melissa's tan.

[ichbin]

11 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I just have a question for the board now that I re-watched—what in the H-E-double-hockey-sticks is a “real-a-tor”?

I know it's not spelled that way but I remember hearing it pronounced like that when I lived in the northeast. 

[DeeplyShallow]

8 minutes ago, ichbin said:

I know it's not spelled that way but I remember hearing it pronounced like that when I lived in the northeast. 

I’m from NY & I never heard it pronounced that way until I moved out west. Not a regional thing, some people really just don’t get it.

[IslandGirl]

Am I the only one who thought Melissa was throwing cantaloupe?  And what was up with her sensitive toddler husband freaking out because she didn't hold his hand in the parking lot?

[emmawoodhouse]

JoGo and his Napoleonic Complex get worse with every passing season.

How tall is he anyway? 5'5"? 

[Hiyo]

Not since he embraced his baldness.

[TheCouchPotato]

Theresa and Joe are a lot of things, but they are such loving children. Speaks volumes about their parents. 

[KungFuBunny]

On 4/8/2021 at 9:08 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

Tre keeps egging her girls on to cry about Nono, "don't you feel sad and miss Nono, come here let me hug you because you feel so sad about missing Nono," she did to Nono on the beach after her mother died, she did it to her girls often.  Enough already, Tre needs to stop using her kids as pawns to prove to everyone how amazing/loving/devoted/perfect the family unit was/is.

I just buried my father yesterday, he did not want a eulogy although I did do a non mushy one anyway...he would have turned over in his grave if he thought I was droning on and on about him especially on TV, he did not enjoy being the center of attention, so much so we are not sitting shiva, also Covid reasons but do we think Nono wanted GIa to have to be filmed reading her eulogy while crying?

My condolences Baltimore Betty

Please accept some mushy group e-hugs

[ichbin]

15 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

The problem is that Jackie really never gave/got a sense of who she was—I think she thought she would come across so well that the onus was on us to take her as we found her—thus she presented as a walking book of contradictions.

My take? She spent the first two seasons wrapped in an air of smug superiority, but shows like this demand some action in addition to a resume. Jen came on a little too strong in her first season and from what I recall the viewer response to her at that time was more against than for.  Jackie, taking a swing at the low hanging fruit, then took her on with that article between seasons.  Jen seems to have a secure sense of self-esteem, is not easily cowed or intimidated, and she also toned some things down and used her personality to build a larger fan base. She wasn't cowed by Jackie's "credentials" so Jackie played the wealth card. Jackie didn't really get a win there either.  She can't take on Marge and Melissa.  Either of them would turn on her in a minute if it served their purpose, plus she needs some support. Dolores clearly doesn't like her but will not give the time or effort needed for strife.  That only leaves Teresa.  While true that she can outtalk and think more quickly than Teresa, sparring with T only served to reveal Jackie's own inadequacies and from what I am seeing on various sites the result has been her initial popularity waning as a result.  Wrapping herself in her degrees, column, and motherhood aren't enough to keep her hot.  The bottom line is that she is just an average person.  Nothing wrong with that, most of us fall into that category, but most of us also would not make for interesting TV. I think the most revealing thing she has done so far is prematurely declare, "I win!" while fighting with T.  My question is, did she come on only to conquer within the franchise or to also show off to anyone who has undervalued her in the past.  This season, like when seeing the PDA with Evan, she really reminds me of a high school girl who wants everyone to know she has a boyfriend.  I'm getting the vibe of insecurity.  In the end I wonder if joining the franchise is going to pay off for her in any positive way.

 

[ichbin]

2 hours ago, TheCouchPotato said:

 

Theresa and Joe are a lot of things, but they are such loving children. Speaks volumes about their parents. 

 

I usually listen to podcasts while I'm doing things like driving, or cooking, etc. I saw some mention of Teresa's book so I downloaded the audio versions from the library.  I'm about half through "Turning the Tables" and so far she puts her parents on a pedestal, raves about her upbringing, and speaks lovingly about her relationship with her brother while they still lived at home. 

It's rough going though.  Teresa did the audio and let  me put it this way, the ability to successfully read a book aloud is  a gift she was not given.  I even found it necessary to speed it up 50% in order to listen to it. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by ichbin
clarity

[BrownBear2012]

I read an article in the NY Daily News about Teresa's new boyfriend. Seems he has a bit of a temper...got slapped with road rage and assault after he stopped his car, got out and put his fist through the open window of the other driver and punched him in the face. RED FLAG ALERT Teresa!!!!!

[Baltimore Betty]

8 hours ago, BrownBear2012 said:

I read an article in the NY Daily News about Teresa's new boyfriend. Seems he has a bit of a temper...got slapped with road rage and assault after he stopped his car, got out and put his fist through the open window of the other driver and punched him in the face. RED FLAG ALERT Teresa!!!!!

She is a bit of a violent person, she went after and had to be held back from Danielle to do some bodily harm, the christening, the weekend "healing," retreat, etc.. so I say they are equally matched.

[BrindaWalsh]

What a boring episode.  

I think the reason this season is so dull and manufactured is because there was nothing dramatic happening coming out of covid lockdown.  Even the Marge/Jennifer fighting feels overdone. 

The only emotionally legitimate moment of this episode was seeing Milania comforting Audriana.  

 

[janiema]

4 minutes ago, BrindaWalsh said:

What a boring episode.  

I think the reason this season is so dull and manufactured is because there was nothing dramatic happening coming out of covid lockdown.  Even the Marge/Jennifer fighting feels overdone. 

The only emotionally legitimate moment of this episode was seeing Milania comforting Audriana.  

 

Milania has grown up well.

[Chatty Cake]

On 4/9/2021 at 5:03 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

As far as the second paragraph, I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, and I think good minds can disagree about it, but I just didn’t want to see it.  Giacinto did have ties to the cast, but he wasn’t a regular cast member, he was controversial (I didn’t like him) and my main objection is that I believe strongly that this was put on TV to drive a storyline, not to pay respects.  Both of Teresa’s parents died when the show wasn’t filming, and I think the most the show should have done was have a “in loving memory of [first name] Gorga” at the end of the episode.  An elderly parent’s death that happened between seasons is not a fitting f/t storyline IMO.  

Moving away from respecting Giacinto and onto something related, this just makes me uncomfortable to watch.  I imagine it makes a lot of viewers uncomfortable to watch.  It feels like attempted emotional manipulation.  On OC, Emily pulling out the box of her stillborn twins made me uncomfortable.  I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do with it.  I’m not going to post how sad it is.  I’m not going to reflect on how sad it makes me, because it doesn’t.  This is supposed to be a show about entertainment.  I’m not looking to have my heartstrings pulled.  I purposely stay away from those types of shows.

I think it’s fine to mention how one feels about a loved one’s passing, maybe a montage, and, at most, a quick scene of Teresa paddling out to the ocean with a wreath to say good-bye to her mom as part of a larger ceremony for the rest of the cast to say good-bye to someone who touched them.  That’s even a little too much for my tastes.  What they did for Joe Giudice’s dad was the perfect amount of coverage for me.  Not 15 minutes devoted to someone who wasn’t a main player.  If shit were actually going on during this DOA season—if they had interesting characters who were moving and shaking, I don’t think the show would have done this, which, again, brings me around to the idea that the show is exploiting a death in an attempt to keep the audience tuned in.  If we had weddings, babies being born, fabulous home renovations, cheating scandals, and good, juicy fights with a cast that could actually argue and keep us entertained (sort of like RHNYC anything except 12), this would barely have gotten covered.  Do better, show.  Don’t use an old man’s death to fill a quarter of the ep because you have failed to cast enough interesting people.

I think one thing that is interesting is that there are two ways of seeing this—one can say that since Teresa is the main person on this cast, her father’s death should get more coverage, sort of the way that Teresa got one half of last season’s finale devoted just to her family.  I feel a completely different way though.  I think it is an ensemble cast, or should be, and I do not imagine the show would have devoted the same coverage if Melissa’s or Margaret’s mom died, both of whom have been on the show plenty.  I think the fact that Teresa gets a disproportionate amount of time is not a reason to give her more time, I think it’s a reason to have a more interesting cast, so that the producers don’t have to make a Hobson’s choice of showing a 15 minute memorial (which was the same length as my grandma’s actual funeral) or another scene of Dolores and Frank having girl-talk about Evan around the kitchen island.  We shouldn’t be subjected to either for a protracted amount of time IMO.  

But what is even worse about Melissa IMO is that she is only on this cast because Bravo hasn’t yet gotten around to casting men.  Bravo wants “Joey” 🤮 Gorga, because of his fucked up dynamic with his sister, so instead of making him a part of Teresa’s storyline, with Melissa as a friend-of, Melissa gets to skate by as a full-time cast member who never has to do anything, because the focus is on her brother.  She is a proxy Housewife.  It’s fucked up and twisted, just like everything else with this family.  

Excellent analysis.  Or...or...and this has always been my theory—Jackie wanted to sow discord between Melissa and Teresa, so that she can come in on Teresa’s side.  I think Jackie—the one who stood in line at the bookstore to meet Teresa—has not given up the idea that she and Teresa can run this franchise together, hopefully as friends, but if not, as opponents.  Jackie has her eye on that first reunion chair, we should never forget that.  She will befriend and then just as quickly turn on Melissa or Teresa on a dime if it gets her there.  

If Jackie and Melissa remain on this show, there will come a point where Jackie will double-cross Melissa and Jackie will play innocent, and she will get away with it, because Melissa is a very basic person who has no ability to analyze or form a game.  I can so see it now—Melissa squinting at Jackie (Melissa does a lot of squinting; I think she thinks it makes her look smarter or younger or more J-Lo-ey) “Jackie, I told you that Joe humps muppets in confidence” and Jackie doing that nodding thing back at her, with the frozen philtrum and low-hanging upper lip, eyes black, throwing up her skinny arms, exaggeratedly shrugging like this is so beneath her, and lisping, “Melissa, I don’t know how you told me ya said it, I just know ya said it!”  Huge grin.  Camera fades to black.  

I’d actually love to see that play out.  I am so tired of this show having the same alliances year after year.  At least on NYC and BH, the reunion couches switch every season.  Why is it that I feel I can bet money on the idea that it is going to be Teresa-Dolores-Jennifer on one couch (or sets of seats) this reunion and Melissa-Margaret-Jackie on the other?  Why doesn’t Dolores fight with anyone anymore?  Because she’s phoning it in.  Why do Jackie, Margaret and Melissa only always get along?  They have nothing in common with each other; why don’t they ever show conflict on camera?  Because there is safety in numbers, and Melissa and Margaret are too stupid and afraid to get kicked off this show.  Who’s left—Jennifer and Teresa?  I’d pay good money to see them go a few rounds, but it won’t happen, because I think Teresa wants Jennifer on her side, and she’s slightly afraid of her.  I would even welcome a Jennifer-Jackie friendship, like they had in season nine, just to break up the monotony of this Iron Curtain of Left Couch versus Right Couch.  So boring!

I enjoy your posts. 
I agree wholeheartedly that Bravo keeps Melissa forJoe. She’s had too many seasons now to still be so boring. It always felt shady the way they joined in the first place. 

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[IslandGirl]

3 minutes ago, Chatty Cake said:

I enjoy your posts. 

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I do too! She had me at Libertarian Slut.