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Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

OtterMommy

By OtterMommy
in Everything Else TV

OtterMommy
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The guidelines for this thread are in the first post.  Please familiarize yourself with them and check frequently as any changes or additions will be posted there (as well as in an in-thread post).

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CrazyInAlabama

CrazyInAlabama

(edited)

The second best part about Josh Duggar being convicted, is that he was taken into custody, and will stay there until sentencing in April.     He is also on the registry for sex offenders.   

https://people.com/tv/what-we-know-about-josh-duggars-pending-sentence-for-child-pornography/

My understanding is that the analysis and certification of the computer material requires a great deal of time, so that might have been a factor in taking this long to get to court. 

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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Lady Whistleup
Lady Whistleup

I just find it infuriating that we still want to look for "perfect victims." Victims are never perfect -- they're human. Amber Heard could be a truly shitty human being, and Johnny Depp could have abu

Proclone
Proclone

Exactly.  Heard isn't a perfect victim.  She's probably a deeply unpleasant toxic person, that doesn't hide particularly well...and none of that precludes her from being abused.  If you subscribe

Hiyo
Hiyo

The word "cancel" is like the word "woke", something that has been co-opted in a certain way by certain people for silly culture wars as a distraction from tackling real issues.

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GaT

GaT

On 12/9/2021 at 9:21 AM, BetterButter said:

Josh Duggar found guilty in child pornography trial

 

I wonder if this has anything to do with her brother, it seems too coincidental to just happen around the same time he's on trial. Maybe something in the evidence against him led to her being charged?

Josh Duggar's Sister Jana Is Charged With Endangering Welfare of a Minor

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According to court documents filed with the Washington County District Court in Arkansas and obtained by E! News on Friday, Dec. 10, the 31-year-old Counting On alum was cited with the misdemeanor on Sept. 9. Her attorney, Gregory F. Payne, entered a not guilty plea on her behalf on Sept. 23.

 

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SusanM

SusanM

3 hours ago, GaT said:

I wonder if this has anything to do with her brother, it seems too coincidental to just happen around the same time he's on trial. Maybe something in the evidence against him led to her being charged?

I think it's pretty unlikely as the charges against Josh Duggar go back to around 2019, it just took awhile to get their ducks in a row and get him charged and in court.  The situation with the sister seems to involve her falling asleep while babysitting and one of the kids wandered away and was found by a non-Duggar.  It's not something that hasn't happened to a lot of parents/ caregivers and of course could have potentially tragic consequences but it's not anywhere near the kind of thing her repulsive older brother has been convicted of.

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Vermicious Knid

Vermicious Knid

Chris Cuomo's CNN producer charged with luring girls.
 

Quote

 

A veteran CNN producer who worked “shoulder to shoulder” with now disgraced ex-anchor Chris Cuomo has been indicted on charges of luring young girls to his Vermont ski house for “sexual subservience” training.

John Griffin, of Stamford, CT, allegedly used messaging apps to befriend and persuade moms of young girls, telling them “a woman is a woman regardless of her age,” and that he should be the one to “train” their daughters sexually, according to the indictment from the US Attorney of Vermont...

Griffin attempted to entice two other children over the internet into sexual activity, according to the indictment, which said he favored apps like Kik and Google Hangout for the alleged misdeeds.  In April 2020, Griffin allegedly suggested a “virtual training session” over a video chat, that would include him instructing a mother and her 14-year-old daughter to remove their clothing and touch each other.

 

 

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Blergh

Blergh

On 12/12/2021 at 1:15 AM, Vermicious Knid said:

Chris Cuomo's CNN producer charged with luring girls.
 

 

Of course, what needs to be determined is whether Mr. Cuomo himself knew about his producer's alleged rather heinous criminal activities- and, if so, how much did he know, when, etc.  to say nothing of how he might have reacted,etc. 

The fact that all  this came to light only AFTER Mr. Cuomo himself was terminated for his role in his brother's activities seems as though it could be  an indication of dubious ties. 

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Guest

Guest

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So with 260 victims it looks like about $1.4 million each before legal costs. So did anyone else besides Nassar ever go to jail? Like for failure to report?

Nassar’s former boss at MSU was convicted and was sentenced for failure to report. Another MSU gymanastics coach was sentenced to 3 months in jail for lying to the police during the investigation. The other big name is USA gymnastics former president, Steve Penny, who is awaiting trial. 

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Zella

Zella

20 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Right now, I wouldn't be surprised if there are X number of Peleton execs behind the scenes who  now seeking out kicking machines for having made the decision to 'revive' Mr Noth's character in a new ad instead of letting Mr. Big stay dead by Peleton! 

I bet so. They've apparently already pulled them.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/peloton-chris-noth-sexual-assault-allegations-1235063871/

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

Not Mike Logan.   GEEZ.   Are there ANY nice guys left in Hollywood?

This was my thought as well! I was just getting ready to post something similar, with the request that no one bean me. I thought he was one of the good guys. And I’ll leave it at that because I really don’t want to be accused of not believing the women.

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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

2 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Not Mike Logan.   GEEZ.   Are there ANY nice guys left in Hollywood?

Is he someone who was considered one of the "nice" ones in Hollywood?  Didn't he have some moments in treating the crew badly on L&O: CI? 

To be fair, I haven't heard any complaints about him on SATC or The Good wife so maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

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Zella

Zella

I only know him from The Good Wife, and I don't remember any reported bad behavior from him there--I think Julianna Margulies's feud with Archie Panjabi overshadowed any other on-set behavior--but I never found him particularly endearing because his character on TGW was such a creep.

That being said, I was surprised to see the accusations against him, but I don't doubt them. I thought the text messages he sent the one victim seemed like textbook attempts of someone who knew exactly what he did but was trying to cover his ass. 

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

On 12/13/2021 at 8:46 PM, Dani said:

Nassar’s former boss at MSU was convicted and was sentenced for failure to report. Another MSU gymanastics coach was sentenced to 3 months in jail for lying to the police during the investigation. The other big name is USA gymnastics former president, Steve Penny, who is awaiting trial. 

Well that is good. My big take away from that Netflix documentary Athlete A was that pretty much every coach/administrator should be in jail, their program should be shut down and the training facility should be burnt to the ground.

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DearEvette

DearEvette

(edited)

Apparently Christ Noth used to date  Beverly Johnson and people are pointing out that when she and Chris Noth were dating that she had to get a restraining order against him.  According to an article from 1995 quoting court papers that is circulating on twitter, he beat her, threatened to disfigure her (for those who are unaware Beverly Johnson was a fashion model and the first black model to appear on the cover of American Vogue) would leave her up to 25 voice mails a day, even threatened to kill hr dog.

She describes the familiar scenario of meeting a very sweet guy who once they were dating became cruel and controlling.  Yikes.

Edited by DearEvette
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ifionlyknew

ifionlyknew

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This was my thought as well! I was just getting ready to post something similar, with the request that no one bean me. I thought he was one of the good guys. And I’ll leave it at that because I really don’t want to be accused of not believing the women.

 

13 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I believe the women but I'm very disappointed in him. I hate that he is that kind of abusive horror, but I definitely support these two women and will listen to any more who cone forward.

This is exactly how I feel.  So disappointed but believe the women.  

13 hours ago, Zella said:

I only know him from The Good Wife, and I don't remember any reported bad behavior from him there--I think Julianna Margulies's feud with Archie Panjabi overshadowed any other on-set behavior--but I never found him particularly endearing because his character on TGW was such a creep.

If not for CN portraying Peter Florrick I would have hated that character.  The same with Mr. Big from SATC.  But now I will never look at those two characters the same way again.

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Apparently Christ Noth used to date  Beverly Johnson and people are pointing out that when she and Chris Noth were dating that she had to get a restraining order against him.  According to an article from 1995 quoting court papers that is circulating on twitter, he beat her, threatened to disfigure her (for those who are unaware Beverly Johnson was a fashion model and the first black model to appear on the cover of American Vogue) would leave her up to 25 voice mails a day, even threatened to kill hr dog.

I remember when that happened and yet for some reason it didn't stick with me. Even at the time it was considered not a big deal and didn't hurt his career.  Things are much different now.  Wonder what happens to his role on the Equalizer.

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Macbeth

Macbeth

(edited)

I had no idea that Beverly Johnson accused Noth of assualt in 1995. And she tried to get a restraining order.  What a POS he is.

He left Law & Order in 1995 - I wonder if he was fired.  It appears as no charges were filed... they decided to give him another chance as he did do a L&O movie in 1998.  He also did L&O: Criminal Intent in the mid 2000s.

 

Edited by Macbeth
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I’ve always liked Chris Noth but for some reason the news did not come as a surprise. He’s charming but always seemed like a guy who would be inappropriate. 

16 hours ago, merylinkid said:

I didn't want to believe it either.   But when he said "Yep it happened, but it was consensual" I knew.   that's line is so overused by predators.  

Yeah. He probably does believe it was consensual. When you don’t really care what other people are thinking or feeling it’s pretty easy to assume the answer is always yes. 

Edited by Guest
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Mabinogia

Mabinogia

1 hour ago, Dani said:

I’ve always liked Chris Noth but for some reason the news did not come as a surprise. He’s charming but as always seemed like a guy who would be inappropriate. 

Same. I've always liked him but am heartbroken that this news isn't shocking me as much as it should. Trying to think about why I think it goes hand in hand with the "it was consensual" excuse. He always seemed vaguely cocky so I could very much see him thinking all women want him and if she's saying "no" it's only because she's "playing hard to get" because who wouldn't want Mr. Big? 

I feel so disgusted, obviously by what he did, but also by the fact that I actually liked him. I always wanted to believe I was a better judge of character than that and it's scary to think I'm not. 

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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

2 hours ago, Macbeth said:

He left Law & Order in 1995 - I wonder if he was fired.  It appears as no charges were filed... they decided to give him another chance as he did do a L&O movie in 1998.  He also did L&O: Criminal Intent in the mid 2000s.

I am pretty sure it was a money thing.  He wanted more money.  The L&O people didn't usually pay big money--especially on the Mothership.  So they parted ways. 

1 hour ago, Dani said:

I’ve always liked Chris Noth but for some reason the news did not come as a surprise. He’s charming but as always seemed like a guy who would be inappropriate. 

Yeah. He probably does believe it was consensual. When you don’t really care what other people are thinking or feeling it’s pretty easy to assume the answer is always yes. 

If it didn't come as a surprise, then you're probably a better judge of character than you think.  I'm the same way.  I've basically liked all of the characters he has played even when they weren't the greatest people.  And I've liked him.

And yet, I too am not surprised because there was always something niggling at me. 

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Enero

Enero

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Same. I've always liked him but am heartbroken that this news isn't shocking me as much as it should. Trying to think about why I think it goes hand in hand with the "it was consensual" excuse. He always seemed vaguely cocky so I could very much see him thinking all women want him and if she's saying "no" it's only because she's "playing hard to get" because who wouldn't want Mr. Big? 

I feel so disgusted, obviously by what he did, but also by the fact that I actually liked him. I always wanted to believe I was a better judge of character than that and it's scary to think I'm not. 

Unless there’s something we don’t know, meaning you know Mr. Noth personally and have interacted with him, I say don’t beat yourself up over it. How can anyone possibly judge someone’s character by a few promotional interviews and a character they’re playing on TV or in a movie? We’re seeing  just snippets of who these folks supposedly are and most of the time they are playing a role, even when they’re not supposed to be ie doing interviews that are promoted as “revealing” and “real”. They are all selling us an image of what they want us to see. Some celebrities do reveal their authentic selves and thus their true goodness or asshole-ry, but I think most manage to keep their dark sides hidden (if they indeed have a dark side).

Regarding Noth, I’ve enjoyed everything I’ve seen him in. So it’s very disappointing to learn  that he’s behaved in such a disgusting manner.

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stonehaven

stonehaven

I find his "consensual" excuse to really be sleazy as one of those encounters was when he was married. One of the reports has him telling his victim that his marriage is a "sham". Wonder how his wife feels about all this?

I can tell you one thing Ben Affleck should send Noth a case of fine wine for taking the heat off...

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aradia22

aradia22

Quote

But when he said "Yep it happened, but it was consensual" I knew.   that's line is so overused by predators.  

Agreed. If this is coming from PR, someone needs to tell them it's a TERRIBLE strategy.

Reading the article from THR...

Quote

At the hospital, “They gave me a little crisis counseling brochure and some medicine.” Contacted by THR, Cedars told THR they do not keep records dating back to 2004.

I'm sorry, what? Like I get not keeping records from routine checkups for more than 10 years but a sexual assault??? At least there was this...

Quote

In January 2006, she sought counseling at the UCLA Rape Crisis Center. “I had buried it as long as I could, and then I really wasn’t doing well and finally went to the treatment the ER had recommended,” she says. (Without addressing the details of Zoe’s situation specifically, Julie Banks, clinical director at the Rape Treatment Center, confirms the facility treated her and says it is not uncommon for survivors of sexual assault to put off seeking treatment.)

Rape should not be so common/frequent

Quote

Soon after the alleged rape, Zoe had confided in her mother, who consoled her and said that she had also been a rape victim. 

I haven't totally pieced it together yet but there's something about both stories... in this dynamic Noth allegedly relies on a standard of acceptable/respectable behavior. The sudden violation of those boundaries before any other violation is thus shocking and it comes across in both accounts. Beyond the voicemail, I don't know if there was more he did to minimize what happened or if there's some sense he got while targeting them that they wouldn't report what happened. It reminds me of the Aziz Ansari story, especially with the follow ups texts with Lily. Not quite gaslighting but a more subtle manipulation. 

Quote

She describes the familiar scenario of meeting a very sweet guy who once they were dating became cruel and controlling.  Yikes.

Maybe it's just that no one starts at 11. But this really does seem like pattern of intentionally predatory behavior. Violent but... careful in a way, not reckless, especially compared to the typical physical abusiveness Beverly described. 

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Zella

Zella

3 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

Beyond the voicemail, I don't know if there was more he did to minimize what happened or if there's some sense he got while targeting them that they wouldn't report what happened.  

I think, like a lot of these celebrity predators, he partially counted on them being bowled over by the fact he was a famous actor. I think he also partially counts on them beating themselves up about things that victims often second-guess themselves about and it making them stay quiet. I don't think it's coincidental that he seems to organize his attacks along lines that are often used to discredit victims--that they'd flirted back with him earlier, that they'd being drinking earlier in the night, that they accepted an invitation to his place. Of course, we know that the fault is solely his as the rapist, but I think he was well aware that these are the kinds of situations that make women less likely to come forward and report what happened. And for extra insurance, he does the gaslighting after the fact. 

He seems to be quite methodical about it, which honestly makes all of it even more chilling and unsettling to me. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of women came out of the woodwork in the coming days. He knew exactly what he was doing and seems to have a very well-polished MO that I imagine he's used a lot. 

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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

13 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think he also partially counts on them beating themselves up about things that victims often second-guess themselves about and it making them stay quiet.

And victims also sometimes want to retroactively get a sense of control over what happened.  It initially seems easier to think of it as a bad sexual encounter that they tacitly agreed to than it is to fully accept the violation. 

The thing he's looking for in texts is "it is fine" or some sort of downplaying response because then he has that to go "see, this is the text after that night and she's clearly cool with it. I don't know why she's changing her mind now."

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Zella

Zella

(edited)
6 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

The thing he's looking for in texts is "it is fine" or some sort of downplaying response because then he has that to go "see, this is the text after that night and she's clearly cool with it. I don't know why she's changing her mind now."

Yep! I think he's also probably always in the back of his mind thought if he was ever confronted about any of this in an isolated accusation, he would do what he did in his statement--say it was consensual. What I don't think he counted on was all of the corroborating evidence that backs up what they say. 

Edited by Zella
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aradia22

aradia22

Quote

I think, like a lot of these celebrity predators, he partially counted on them being bowled over by the fact he was a famous actor. I think he also partially counts on them beating themselves up about things that victims often second-guess themselves about and it making them stay quiet. 

The part of my brain that has spent too much time on reddit wonders if it was quite as sudden as it's described in these accounts. After reading what Zoe Lister-Jones wrote about women taking pride in "handling" themselves, it feels like these women did feel like they were in control, but also that by that point (e.g. going to the pool, returning the book, going to dinner, going to the apartment) Noth had already gathered the information he needed. All of that is boundary pushing and not rejecting that because you feel like you can handle a kiss or a dinner might be how he knew he could escalate to such blatant assault and then count on their silence afterwards. I'm sure they were young and pretty but they also seem to have a similar personality type. The way they were flattered by being asked questions about themselves. (God, the bar for men is so low.) "Methodical" feels like the right word for it. And yes, it's even more disturbing. How many times did he get away with it???

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Zella

Zella

22 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

The part of my brain that has spent too much time on reddit wonders if it was quite as sudden as it's described in these accounts. After reading what Zoe Lister-Jones wrote about women taking pride in "handling" themselves, it feels like these women did feel like they were in control, but also that by that point (e.g. going to the pool, returning the book, going to dinner, going to the apartment) Noth had already gathered the information he needed. All of that is boundary pushing and not rejecting that because you feel like you can handle a kiss or a dinner might be how he knew he could escalate to such blatant assault and then count on their silence afterwards. I'm sure they were young and pretty but they also seem to have a similar personality type. The way they were flattered by being asked questions about themselves. (God, the bar for men is so low.) "Methodical" feels like the right word for it. And yes, it's even more disturbing. How many times did he get away with it???

Yes precisely he was pushing boundaries in a subtle way the whole time. It's not something one automatically may think of as a red flag in the moment or in isolation, but when you see it in hind sight and in relation to a pattern, he was clearly trying to test limits and gauge reactions. And he counts on those poor women being embarrassed and feeling like they themselves did something wrong rather than him being called out as a manipulative, conniving predator. The more I think of this case, the more it really disturbs me. 

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

17 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

I remember when that happened and yet for some reason it didn't stick with me. Even at the time it was considered not a big deal and didn't hurt his career.  Things are much different now.  Wonder what happens to his role on the Equalizer.

Oh, I see Bishop (his character) dying. On a show like The Equalizer (any version), death is expected. So, goodbye to Bishop and get a new "boss" for Robyn. At least, I hope this is the plan.

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stonehaven

stonehaven

I wouldn't doubt if there's even a toss off line on "Good Fight" about Florrick dying of a heart attack on an excersise machine...He wasn't ever on the Good Wife spinoff but I can see the writers killing him off so he can't reprise it anywhere else...

Now, how am I gonna watch Law and Order reruns with Logan?????

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merylinkid

merylinkid

5 hours ago, Zella said:

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of women came out of the woodwork in the coming days. He knew exactly what he was doing and seems to have a very well-polished MO that I imagine he's used a lot. 

based on what has come out -- there are going to be more.   Possibly Cosby levels of more.  He seems to have hidden this side very well from the public.   Which is how predators thrive.  

GOD I LOVED LOGAN.   There goes watching L & O, the good years.   

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Egg McMuffin

Egg McMuffin

I read an interview with Chris Noth a number of years ago and was immediately turned off by the arrogance. I never viewed him the same way.

If these allegations are true, then I hope he goes to jail for a long time. In our area, we’ve had a recent murder where a man killed his ex-wife and burned her house down after years of harassment. She had a restraining order against him, which he violated three times. We’ve failed as a society when we can’t/don’t protect woman against these violent monsters.

[/soapbox]

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merylinkid

merylinkid

The defense has rested in the Ghislane Maxwell trial.   She did not testify.   At one point they said they would call 35 witnesses.   CLEARLY they did not do that.   If they did it would have gone over into the New Year.   I think they are counting on the spirit of Christmas helping her out with the jury.   Also the fact the jurors don't want to have this hanging over their heads over Christmas.   They want to be done with the trial so they can just enjoy the holiday.   

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Jaded

Jaded

I first knew of Noth due to L&O years ago. I never watched SATC due to not having HBO. Had the DVDs at one time but those got lost due to a hurricane. I don't think I realized how popular his character on that show really was since I never saw it. 

I started to side eye him years ago when he married his now wife after I did the math on how young she was when they started dating. Even though she was of age it still squicked me out. 

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Mabinogia

Mabinogia

7 hours ago, Zella said:

The more I think of this case, the more it really disturbs me. 

Seriously. It is bad enough when it is a case of maybe being too drunk to remember the rules of consent, or to have been brainwashed by the antiquated notion that when a woman says no she means she wants to see you work for it. Those are still rape, but there isn't the premeditation that it sounds like Noth has. The more I am reading/hearing about his MO the more it seems like a game to him and that is fucking chilling in the worst way. 

 

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