S12.E09: Three Little Words

[Ilovepie]

27 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Actually, I was bothered by something he did in last night's episode.  I think it had to do with Haley going to Paige's and staying there until late, when he had wanted to talk.  She said she's not a mindreader, and if he wanted to talk, he needed to tell her.  He countered that he didn't tell her because he knew how she would react, and launched into a recitation of what he knew she would be thinking and saying.  That sort of thing pisses me off no end, and it didn't seem to sit well with Haley, either.

That is a good point, and he shouldn't have assumed she would know that. Sending a vague text is probably not the best way to let someone know you wanted to talk to them. And while that is annoying, I still maintain that he hasn't really done anything so far that would warrant the other women treating him like some kind of ogre on Unfiltered.

[StatisticalOutlier]

46 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Unfortunately for Paige, I saw a wedding band on the fine pastor's finger.   

Maybe God will tell her to break up that marriage.  It would be on par with the other directives she's gotten.

[Devvie]

1 hour ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

 

Chris is just flat out evil. He is getting some perverse kick out of playing Paige like a yo-yo. He had a devilish grin on his face. He must have filed down the horns. I wonder if he's planning on having some sex before he rips here beating heart out again?

 

Right?  Like a cat with a mouse. 

I read that in season 1 they were given $15K and now it's up to $25K.  These are relatively young people so that might be considered a sizable sum (especially to broke Chris [not to Erik or Brianna]) but as they get older it might not have been a good decision to do the show and air their dirty laundry for the world to see.  A few of these people might have difficultly finding jobs based on many things in the show. $25K isn't going to get anyone through to retirement.

[DrewPaul2010]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Actually, I was bothered by something he did in last night's episode.  I think it had to do with Haley going to Paige's and staying there until late, when he had wanted to talk.  She said she's not a mindreader, and if he wanted to talk, he needed to tell her.  He countered that he didn't tell her because he knew how she would react, and launched into a recitation of what he knew she would be thinking and saying.  That sort of thing pisses me off no end, and it didn't seem to sit well with Haley, either.

Its infuriating. Its called a straw-man argument where an opponent injects a premise he (or she) claims is his opponents position. Then with righteous indignation attempts to make her (or him) defend a position they didn't make. All you can do is call it out. Don't attempt to defend it, label it as a bogus claim. Then state your actual opinions. Jake has gone off the deep end a few times with paranoid thinking. He needs to get to a point he realizes if she did something like ditch him or speak badly about him the shame and disgrace is on her not him. No one should be treated such a way least of all a new husband in a crazy situation. 

 

 

[JAndy]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Virginia's talking to the camera while she was in bed close up was not doing her any favors. Girl has nasty zits all over her face! Does she not wash her face? She always looks dirty to me. She's a mess. Erik looks like Mr. Squeaky Clean. I don't understand what he sees in her. 

He said she brings color into his life. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Maybe he just likes her? There has to be more that they aren’t showing us

[DrewPaul2010]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Virginia's talking to the camera while she was in bed close up was not doing her any favors. Girl has nasty zits all over her face! Does she not wash her face? She always looks dirty to me. She's a mess. Erik looks like Mr. Squeaky Clean. I don't understand what he sees in her. 

He's still in the clouds. And she maybe capable of mind blowing sex...I know when intoxicated my sexual preferences became quite liberated. I think he is willing to give her his heart and soul but he has non-negotiable expectations. Having children is certainly a reasonable expectation. Just last season the issue came up and he said he doesn't believe in having children...but would for her.

I'd say the outbreak is tension. I do believe she really wants this to work but she is feeling uncertain. I didn't really clear acne for good until I was about her age.  

[DrewPaul2010]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Maybe God will tell her to break up that marriage.  It would be on par with the other directives she's gotten.

For some God's will just coincidentally is invariably synonymous with their own.

[Kdawg82]

On 3/10/2021 at 9:12 PM, Baltimore Betty said:

have decided that Eirk is built like that Chrisley father, his shoulders and neck are sort of scarecrow like.

 

YES!!! Totally this!! Or see also Tim Malcolm of 90 day fiance fame. Both of whom I feel better about than Erik the pilot. 

[pdlinda]

On 3/10/2021 at 7:20 PM, Straycat80 said:

I don’t think he’s gay. I’m starting to think he’s getting tired of Claires neediness and endless dialogue. 

I can't speak for him (obviously); however, I cannot get beyond the black roots on hairline and part of the platinum blonde hair.  Also, Clara has a cute figure; however, consuming donut after donut after donut (and more) I can see the projected effect of that type of "junk food" preference (she rejected the mere mention of vegetables) on her figure as the years go on.

I said it before and I'll say it again:  I do NOT see Clara and Ryan as a romantic couple.  Friends maybe (based upon what, I ask myself?)  Maybe not even that, on second thought.  Regardless of what happens on DD, I see no future for this couple.

[SnarkEnthusiast]

12 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

Well, the poor girl isn’t having SEX, so she has to have something satisfying.  What’s wrong with him already?

I thought Clara basically admitted doing everything but (which I assumed to be oral). Unless Ryan's lying, I think he finds her decently attractive, but is turned off by her love fixation and views her as overly emotional (too much talking, constant discussion of feelings, falling in and out of love very easily, plus Ryan seemingly has an incredibly flat personality without much emotion). He doesn't want to make things messier with sex. I think Ryan is running out the clock just like Haley, but he's being much more amicable about it, which is giving her mixed signals. 

Eric is infatuated with Virginia because she's the hottest woman he's ever been with and the age gap strokes his ego and makes him feel powerful. That's pretty much it. I did feel for her when she said her sister's relationship was the first healthy example she'd seen.

After the adorable bike gift, Vinny really took a nosedive. He seems like he has serious anger issues triggered over nothing. You're sulking because you can't dance salsa, really? It would be exhausting constantly trying to anticipate and talk him down from his mood swings, never knowing if he's going to ruin date night or a friendly gathering.

Jake and Haley are both pretty awkward and I wouldn't date either of them, but it's annoying watching her gaslight Jake when imo he's just trying to save her time and give her an out because he knows she's not into him.

[TJ N]

7 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I think that the fact that Clara keeps telling Ryan how easily and often she falls in love is giving him pause as it may be a red flag that she doesn't really understand what love is and that it needs to last through ups and downs.  

He's without a doubt struggling with her saying that.  He's very calculated and serious in probably everything he does.  I know I'm not attracted to women that say what she's saying.  If she says I love you, is that real?  Does she even know what that means?  Am I just on a long list of guys she's said that to?  That wouldn't make me feel very special about her saying I love you. 

[TJ N]

17 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I thought Clara basically admitted doing everything but (which I assumed to be oral). Unless Ryan's lying, I think he finds her decently attractive, but is turned off by her love fixation and views her as overly emotional (too much talking, constant discussion of feelings, falling in and out of love very easily, plus Ryan seemingly has an incredibly flat personality without much emotion). He doesn't want to make things messier with sex. I think Ryan is running out the clock just like Haley, but he's being much more amicable about it, which is giving her mixed signals. 

Eric is infatuated with Virginia because she's the hottest woman he's ever been with and the age gap strokes his ego and makes him feel powerful. That's pretty much it. I did feel for her when she said her sister's relationship was the first healthy example she'd seen.

After the adorable bike gift, Vinny really took a nosedive. He seems like he has serious anger issues triggered over nothing. You're sulking because you can't dance salsa, really? It would be exhausting constantly trying to anticipate and talk him down from his mood swings, never knowing if he's going to ruin date night or a friendly gathering.

Jake and Haley are both pretty awkward and I wouldn't date either of them, but it's annoying watching her gaslight Jake when imo he's just trying to save her time and give her an out because he knows she's not into him.

I don't believe it's anger with Vinny.  I believe it's his insecurities.  Those insecurities may manifest in anger but the root is insecurity.  The anger is also a sign of immaturity and poor social skills because he can't express through words why he's frustrated and feels insecure.

You hit the nail on the head with the other couples. Didn't consider that aspect with Eric but it's spot on.

On 3/10/2021 at 6:45 PM, Mindthinkr said:

If my husband was gone a lot (like Eric is) I’d have on a cute outfit, my hair done neatly and have cooked him a meal.

That would require her to have to know how to cook.  I highly doubt she knows how to cook.

[qtpye]

28 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I thought Clara basically admitted doing everything but (which I assumed to be oral). Unless Ryan's lying, I think he finds her decently attractive, but is turned off by her love fixation and views her as overly emotional (too much talking, constant discussion of feelings, falling in and out of love very easily, plus Ryan seemingly has an incredibly flat personality without much emotion). He doesn't want to make things messier with sex. I think Ryan is running out the clock just like Haley, but he's being much more amicable about it, which is giving her mixed signals. 

Eric is infatuated with Virginia because she's the hottest woman he's ever been with and the age gap strokes his ego and makes him feel powerful. That's pretty much it. I did feel for her when she said her sister's relationship was the first healthy example she'd seen.

After the adorable bike gift, Vinny really took a nosedive. He seems like he has serious anger issues triggered over nothing. You're sulking because you can't dance salsa, really? It would be exhausting constantly trying to anticipate and talk him down from his mood swings, never knowing if he's going to ruin date night or a friendly gathering.

Jake and Haley are both pretty awkward and I wouldn't date either of them, but it's annoying watching her gaslight Jake when imo he's just trying to save her time and give her an out because he knows she's not into him.

Eric is very attracted to her. I imagine he has been with hotter women as he has traveled around the world and stewardesses are known to be very nice looking as well but Virginia does seem to stroke his fire in a "I can't believe she's this into me" type a way. Also, I agree that her tendency to be a ditz makes him feel smart and manly. I would not like my husband to "Father" me but maybe that is what she needs.

[Airy2021]

On 3/10/2021 at 8:23 PM, Crashcourse said:

Virginia belongs in a trailer somewhere with a jug of moonshine by the bed.

And from the neck down Erik looks like a frail 80 year old.

OMG I keep saying the same exact thing about Eric! He has the exact body of an elderly man!!! I don’t like body shaming anyone but I always see that when I look at him. He has broad shoulders yet super super skinny arms and legs. 
 

Virginia needs to get her act together. She drinks WAY too much. I don’t know if I’ve seen her without a drink regardless of what she is doing. It’s aged her 10 years and it’s destroying her skin. She needs to quit for her own well being. She’s so young and she’s obviously on the way to being a full on alcoholic. I hope she kicks that habit. 

[Airy2021]

39 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I thought Clara basically admitted doing everything but (which I assumed to be oral). Unless Ryan's lying, I think he finds her decently attractive, but is turned off by her love fixation and views her as overly emotional (too much talking, constant discussion of feelings, falling in and out of love very easily, plus Ryan seemingly has an incredibly flat personality without much emotion). He doesn't want to make things messier with sex. I think Ryan is running out the clock just like Haley, but he's being much more amicable about it, which is giving her mixed signals. 

Eric is infatuated with Virginia because she's the hottest woman he's ever been with and the age gap strokes his ego and makes him feel powerful. That's pretty much it. I did feel for her when she said her sister's relationship was the first healthy example she'd seen.

After the adorable bike gift, Vinny really took a nosedive. He seems like he has serious anger issues triggered over nothing. You're sulking because you can't dance salsa, really? It would be exhausting constantly trying to anticipate and talk him down from his mood swings, never knowing if he's going to ruin date night or a friendly gathering.

Jake and Haley are both pretty awkward and I wouldn't date either of them, but it's annoying watching her gaslight Jake when imo he's just trying to save her time and give her an out because he knows she's not into him.

Clara and Ryan are too different imho. The religious view differences alone are enough to end them long term. If he wants to raise kids in church and she sees it as a form of brainwashing and squashing the option of choice (which I do too actually) then that’s a big deal. I think Ryan sees that and is definitely nervous about it. But, that is a HUGE factor in couples working out long term. If you don’t agree on religious upbringing for kids it’s rough. I’m wondering why they were matched when they differ on this essential viewpoint??

 

I still feel kind of bad for Haley. Everyone seems to dislike her but Jake, to me, is just awful. He has such a blah personality. Getting a normal conversation out of him is like pulling teeth. He’s so...stiff. He’s always tense and awkward and soooooooo boring. I don’t understand this match at all. 

Was anyone else soooooo relieved that Eric didn’t start singing when he played his music for Virginia?? I was nervous. 

[Hip-to-be-Square]

Brianna's high pitched baby talk voice that she puts on sounds like somebody stepped on a dog squeak toy.  Vinny needs a beard trimmer and an attitude check. Jake should cut his losses, walk tall and move to his 80's house for the remainder of the show and jam out to some Wham by the pool.  Hailey did herself a disservice by being single for 7 years and letting a breakup shut her off from dating opportunities for so long.  Eric is blinded by chemistry and desperation to have a fairytale romance and overlooking the fact that Virginia has a massive drinking problem and needs help.  Paige has given Chris the benefit of the doubt for too long and needs to leave him- I hope he drops Subway tuna on his Ferragamo loafers.  Donuts are far more satisfying than men who don't give in the bedroom, Clara should take some donuts in a to-go bag.  Ryan needs to grow out all of his hair instead of showcasing a landing strip  combover.  And to Hailey and Chris for being truly upset for lack of attraction- why go on a show to marry a stranger?!  Trudge through the dating apps or singles mixers like everybody else and find someone that you like in person. 

[Alexander Pope]

Clara was eating her feelings and I don't blame her!

Edited March 12, 2021 by Alexander Pope
edited to make more sense

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Eric is infatuated with Virginia because she's the hottest woman he's ever been with and the age gap strokes his ego and makes him feel powerful. That's pretty much it. I did feel for her when she said her sister's relationship was the first healthy example she'd seen.

Damn sad if true because she is not hot. Maybe more because she's much younger than him and that's something he enjoys.

[NowVoyager]

Dear Paige,

God

[antfitz]

I can't stand him. He is jerking her around. He told her he wanted to marry his ex, but then last week his ex said she didn't want to marry him. Do back he comes, I think looking for sex. I don't believe he's afraid of falling in love. She's a fool to keep believing him.  She should be able get any guy. She is very well educated and articulate.   Meanwhile he says things like, "know what I mean," and "no kind a way" which shows a lack of education.  Even if he comes around,  I don't think she'll be happy in the long run.  I'm going to start just fast forwarding through their exchanges. They wish to produces would quit pushing her to go back in.

[antfitz]

15 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Jake would've been happier about the shirts if they were from a woman who really liked & cared about him. Haley wants to make him more acceptable for her. She wasn't putting anything over on him as his expression said it all. He knew & I felt sad for him, because she's already told him she's not attracted, now she's trying to change him to fix that, which won't work. I think Jake wants to be set free but Haley is trying to 'play the show' out.

 I don't think Haley is like that at all. I think Jacob as weird. I can't imagine anyone being attracted to him, but I'm sure some are.  Since he called her a liar at the honeymoon that was it.  He never would listen to her explanation. And they showed it on video that she was telling the truth. I can see why he wasn't married at 38.  I need to do more in depth discussions with these people before they put them together.

[Yeah No]

15 hours ago, qtpye said:

Does anyone think that maybe Hailey did not buy those shirt, but maybe they were provided by production? Like they are pulling her aside and asking what is wrong and she says her usual...I don't know...maybe if he dressed better....and boom. Some lackey was sent out to get those shirts and cheap gift bags. 

The reason is that I think this is I just do not see Hailey putting that much effort in Jake. I mean what size does a man with muscles that big wear in regular shirts (sometimes dress shirts can be different sizes then t-shirts)? My own brother wears an XXL and he has much smaller arms. I think Hailey knows she is not staying with Jake and might just be a little to polite or nice or shrewd enough to say it on camera.

Jake knows Hailey is done with him and just wants clarification, so he could move to the separate bedroom and not get his hopes up.

He really did look like a ranch hand in the checked shirt.  Jake might have women all over him if he dressed a little better but he would probably rather have a woman who loves him for his true self, which includes his quirky wardrobe. 

I think all the gifts on this show are thought up and provided by production, including Ryan's doughnuts and Vinny's bicicleta.  They may sit down with the people and ask them what they could get for their spouse to spice things up for the show and come up with something together.  Then it miraculously appears as if it's their idea and doing.  And the spouse never knows that part of it.

I thought that checked shirt Haley gave Jake looked like a Van Heusen from the outlet mall that father wore when he was 90 (yeah, I gave it to him).  I didn't think checks like that were back in style.  The checked shirt Erik wore in this episode was more current looking.

[antfitz]

15 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I don’t think I can get behind Vincent and Brianna. She will constantly have to make herself “small” so it doesn’t hurt his ego but then he does something sweet and gets her a bicycle based on one of their first conversations.  
Neither Hailey or Ryan seem very interested in relationships. Almost asexual to me  based on what I’ve seen on this show. 

 I don't think Haley is a sexual, I think she just doesn't like him. And I don't like him. Since I called our liar on their honeymoon, that would do it for me. He wouldn't even listen to her explanation.

[antfitz]

4 hours ago, Airy2021 said:

Clara and Ryan are too different imho. The religious view differences alone are enough to end them long term. If he wants to raise kids in church and she sees it as a form of brainwashing and squashing the option of choice (which I do too actually) then that’s a big deal. I think Ryan sees that and is definitely nervous about it. But, that is a HUGE factor in couples working out long term. If you don’t agree on religious upbringing for kids it’s rough. I’m wondering why they were matched when they differ on this essential viewpoint??

 

I still feel kind of bad for Haley. Everyone seems to dislike her but Jake, to me, is just awful. He has such a blah personality. Getting a normal conversation out of him is like pulling teeth. He’s so...stiff. He’s always tense and awkward and soooooooo boring. I don’t understand this match at all. 

Was anyone else soooooo relieved that Eric didn’t start singing when he played his music for Virginia?? I was nervous. 

Boy do I agree with you! Haley seems nice and quiet, but Jacob is just so dull and boring. He's also mean to keep calling her a liar on their honeymoon when she had a plausible  explanation.  Maybe ssd's he could have called him, but he's so boring I wouldn't want to.  There's a reason why he's single at 38, and I can see it. Ugh

I was glad he didn't  sing. But also I think she's too much of a party girl, so this won't work.

In general these people get too intimate way too soon. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by antfitz

[Yeah No]

Just now, antfitz said:

 I don't think Haley is like that at all. I think Jacob as weird. I can't imagine anyone being attracted to him, but I'm sure some are.  Since he called her a liar at the honeymoon that was it.  He never would listen to her explanation. And they showed it on video that she was telling the truth. I can see why he wasn't married at 38.  I need to do more in depth discussions with these people before they put them together.

I am completely with you on this.  If there was any chance at all Jake blew it on the honeymoon by acting pissy and accusatory of her.  If my husband acted like that with me when we were first dating I never would have warmed up to him.  If there were ever a chance for them he would have had to be patient and show good faith that he supported her regardless of her feelings for him.  She might have actually been able to warm up to him if he acted that way.  But no, he is full of vitriol and sour grapes because she isn't into him the way Virginia is all over Erik right from the start.  He has no clue how relationships sometimes have to evolve.  He sees how others are hitting it off right out of the gate and has zero patience or understanding for someone that doesn't work that way.  He should be acting like Clara is acting with Ryan - patient and hopeful.  He should be keeping a positive attitude and not getting nasty about it, but nothing more negative than a little whining.  Like say in a sweet way, "Honey, I wanted to spend some time with you and it hurt me that you went away with the others and didn't tell me".  Give her a chance to feel sorry about it and apologize.  But noooo, he showed himself to be someone that can be mean if he doesn't get what he wants right away.  It shows no respect for a woman's feelings. 

Plus I challenge anyone that's team Jake to tell me what he has done to show that he likes Haley or has any interest in her whatsoever as a person.  He has created this smokescreen to put the blame on her for not being into him, but meanwhile he has done NOTHING to show that he has one ounce of interest in her as a person whatsoever.  All he does is put the focus on him and his quirky interests and house and act like a big baby by chastising her because she isn't into him.  Maybe if he showed some good faith that he really wanted to get to know her and give her all the time she needs to figure out how she feels about him she might in time lower her walls with him.  But all he can do is complain ala Michael from a previous season that she "won't be vulnerable with him".  Well, give her a freaking reason to WANT to be vulnerable with you and maybe she might!  He shows zero respect for her!  Haley on the other hand is not a good match for someone that she needs to warm up to.  She probably needs more time than the average person to warm up to someone even if she does like them, which only makes the situation that much worse.  

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

Its infuriating. Its called a straw-man argument where an opponent injects a premise he (or she) claims is his opponents position. Then with righteous indignation attempts to make her (or him) defend a position they didn't make. All you can do is call it out. Don't attempt to defend it, label it as a bogus claim. Then state your actual opinions. Jake has gone off the deep end a few times with paranoid thinking. He needs to get to a point he realizes if she did something like ditch him or speak badly about him the shame and disgrace is on her not him. No one should be treated such a way least of all a new husband in a crazy situation. 

This, exactly!  Jake makes an awful lot of assumptions about Haley based on very little information, and most of them I feel are unfair and blown up out of proportion to the reality, and yes in some cases over the deep end.  The fact that he did this after only a few days of knowing her is a very huge red flag and I'm sure his baggage from past rejections is only making the next one a self-fulfilling prophecy, in this case with a woman he married - Just goes to show that marriage is not going to guarantee that you're not going to sabotage the relationship from ever getting off the ground, like he's done with Haley.

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, TJ N said:

I don't believe it's anger with Vinny.  I believe it's his insecurities.  Those insecurities may manifest in anger but the root is insecurity.  The anger is also a sign of immaturity and poor social skills because he can't express through words why he's frustrated and feels insecure.

This hits the nail on the head re: Vinny.  I said it a couple of weeks ago and I'll say it again - I think he's caught up in a cultural thing about "machismo" where he thinks he has to look in control and dominant at all times in a romantic relationship.  Briana is a modern woman who may actually have no problem saying or doing things that might make him feel like he looks "less than" her in some way.  She doesn't intend to make him feel that way, it's all in HIS mind.  I think he felt like he was being shown up by her on the dance floor because she was so much more capable than he was.  In his mind she made him look bad.  She also made him feel like he looked bad when she made that comment the other week that set him off.  I don't see this as only being a factor because he's conscious of being filmed and more worried about how he looks as a result.  I think he will be that way with anyone off camera too - their friends, their family, people out in public, etc.  She'll never know when she might step into his minefield of insecurities and set off that old "machismo" thing again.  And I feel sorry for her because she obviously is clueless at this point as to where this is all coming from.  But even knowing that isn't going to save her from his problem, unfortunately.  I think this would be a hard one for him to get over even with therapy.  I just wonder if she'll be able to put up with it for the  long haul.  I just hope she doesn't start walking on eggshells with him.  That's no way to go through a relationship.

[Yeah No]

16 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Jake would've been happier about the shirts if they were from a woman who really liked & cared about him. Haley wants to make him more acceptable for her. She wasn't putting anything over on him as his expression said it all. He knew & I felt sad for him, because she's already told him she's not attracted, now she's trying to change him to fix that, which won't work. I think Jake wants to be set free but Haley is trying to 'play the show' out.

I think this is the part of every season when the relationships that aren't making it are just "playing the show out".  They all sign a contract that they have to be available for filming, which means they are forced to continue with the process in one way or another whether they really want to or not.  We start to see a lot of comments complaining that these couples are "just prolonging the agony" as if they can do anything about it, but it's all in the contract that they really have signed away their right to do that.  I still believe that after Heather the flight attendant ditched the show they sent the lawyers back to the drawing board to firm up the contracts to make that virtually legal and financial suicide if anyone did the same.

Which leads me to my theory about Paige and Chris.  I don't for one minute believe that Paige would be on board with any of this at this point if she didn't have a virtual gun held to her head by production.  I am not buying the scene they showed trying to make it look like going back and talking to him again after walking out was HER choice and not production's.  They conveniently left out the first part of the conversation where they probably waved the contract in her face and basically told her that she would be in violation of it if she didn't go through with the scene in just the way they wanted her to film it.  She is basically being forced to beat the dead horse of that relationship and make herself look like she is completely out of her mind in the process. 

And I wonder how much of this is true on Chris' end too - The fact that he keeps calling her, and sounding more ridiculous and conflicted.  Now he's acting like he would have wanted to continue things with her - how much of that is being done with a gun to HIS head from production?  The contracts may now state that they not only have to be "available for filming" but do pretty much what production wants of them, like continue acting like they want a relationship with each other that everyone pretty much knows is over dead and gone.  I even wonder if Chris thought up the pregnancy ruse just to try to get out of the show contract and marriage but production and the team of lawyers weren't having it.  Not even claiming his ex was pregnant was going to get him out of the contract and so that backfired.  Now he is changing his tune and cooperating with production, but just like Paige, it's probably not without a virtual gun to his head.  I actually feel sorry for both of them at this point.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Yeah No

[rlc]

On 3/10/2021 at 9:30 PM, Mindthinkr said:

He wants his cake (well two) and to eat it too. 

And cupcakes, cookies, and some ice cream, without gaining an ounce or paying for any of it.

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

This, exactly!  Jake makes an awful lot of assumptions about Haley based on very little information, and most of them I feel are unfair and blown up out of proportion to the reality, and yes in some cases over the deep end.  The fact that he did this after only a few days of knowing her is a very huge red flag and I'm sure his baggage from past rejections is only making the next one a self-fulfilling prophecy, in this case with a woman he married - Just goes to show that marriage is not going to guarantee that you're not going to sabotage the relationship from ever getting off the ground, like he's done with Haley.

 

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

This hits the nail on the head re: Vinny.  I said it a couple of weeks ago and I'll say it again - I think he's caught up in a cultural thing about "machismo" where he thinks he has to look in control and dominant at all times in a romantic relationship.  Briana is a modern woman who may actually have no problem saying or doing things that might make him feel like he looks "less than" her in some way.  She doesn't intend to make him feel that way, it's all in HIS mind.  I think he felt like he was being shown up by her on the dance floor because she was so much more capable than he was.  In his mind she made him look bad.  She also made him feel like he looked bad when she made that comment the other week that set him off.  I don't see this as only being a factor because he's conscious of being filmed and more worried about how he looks as a result.  I think he will be that way with anyone off camera too - their friends, their family, people out in public, etc.  She'll never know when she might step into his minefield of insecurities and set off that old "machismo" thing again.  And I feel sorry for her because she obviously is clueless at this point as to where this is all coming from.  But even knowing that isn't going to save her from his problem, unfortunately.  I think this would be a hard one for him to get over even with therapy.  I just wonder if she'll be able to put up with it for the  long haul.  I just hope she doesn't start walking on eggshells with him.  That's no way to go through a relationship.

I think you make some good points about both men, who are insecure due to some unhealed scars from past relationships.

Vinnie has said that his ex broke up with him when he started his own business as a "car broker". Brianna probably makes more money than him, if his business has stalled due to Covid. She also has more education and is a very attractive woman. Some men just can't handle when the shine is always on their partner.

Jacob is one of those people who were probably awkward in their youth and got a tremendous physical "glow up" in their adulthood but still do not understand why they can not keep women interested.  It reminds me of some women who put tremendous effort into their physical appearance because they felt geeky or unattractive in high school, but never really work on improving their inner selves. 

With Jacob, it is his awkward personality and as someone else pointed out, he does not seem to think about doing things to please Hailey beyond putting on those shirts (which were probably bought by production), though he wants her to be accepting of his quirks. She wanted to move to Australia and for me that would probably be a long conversation in itself because I am fascinated by American expats. I love to learn about other cultures and have always wanted to live abroad for a short period of time.

Then to add insult to injury, Grampa Eric and Dad Bod Vinnie (who I thought was adorable before his tantrums) were matched with women who are really pleased to be with him. He probably wonders why he can not attract women despite his Adonis like physique, though a better hair cut would have helped.

That being said he probably would have been over the moon if Hailey liked him but I do think his insecurities probably did kill that potential. 

[rlc]

Oh, Brianna- run! I was married to someone with the same level of ‘sensitivity’ as Vincent (key word being WAS). Also, ditch the baby voice.

No words for Paige- if she wants to try again with that fukboi, she gets everything she deserves (likely with a side of crabs and a round of antibiotics).

Eric- no woman anywhere enjoys an intimate serenade from a fair-to-middling guitar player. Perhaps a girl might, but not a woman. So perhaps Virginia did enjoy it, though she was likely just wondering how long she had to listen until she could have another shot.

[Stinamaia]

23 hours ago, JAndy said:

I feel like if a man bought a women clothing on the show though, it wouldn’t be perceived as well. She basically was saying she’s buying the clothing because she doesn’t like what he wears. 

Lots of women do this.  I had a friend who began curating her husband’s wardrobe even before they were engaged. He was a nice looking man but would wear awful things for sentimental reasons or fun. She helped him look better by giving him better choices. 
I don’t think Jake is unattractive, but I would never be attracted to him and part of that is how he presents himself physically. The rest is aspects of his personality.   He seems understandably hurt by Haley’s lack of attraction to him, but it kind of comes off as anger, and that makes Haley retreat.

[Stinamaia]

23 hours ago, spunky said:

I'm officially done with Paige.  She keeps dragging God into her bad decisions and I'm not here for it.

When Pastor Dwight quoted James1:8 "A double minded man is unstable in all of his ways".  That was him very professionally and subtly telling her to GET OUT. Does she need a flashing neon sign telling her to leave?

He should have quoted these verses in James I. 13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Paige seems ready for more unprotected sex. 

[spunky]

16 minutes ago, Stinamaia said:

He should have quoted these verses in James I. 13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Paige seems ready for more unprotected sex. 

He really should've  quoted that as well. She seems intent on making bad decisions and then blaming God for it. She needs to understand that God is not a God of confusion. 

[Retired at last]

1 hour ago, rlc said:

Eric- no woman anywhere enjoys an intimate serenade from a fair-to-middling guitar player.

At least he didn't sing to her like Matt did to Amber a few seasons ago. That was excruciating and Amber loved it. The "song" Erik played was just some basic chord progression that everyone who takes Guitar 101 learns. Hardly a song.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Retired at last

[Vanderboom]

12 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

After the adorable bike gift, Vinny really took a nosedive. He seems like he has serious anger issues triggered over nothing. You're sulking because you can't dance salsa, really? It would be exhausting constantly trying to anticipate and talk him down from his mood swings, never knowing if he's going to ruin date night or a friendly gathering.

Exactly! If the biggest problem in your marriage--hell, even your day--is that you couldn't salsa right, then I truly envy you, Vincent. Ask Paige the Deluded Masochist how she would feel if Chris didn't come with a pregnant ex and a library of mind games. Ask her how she'd feel if the two biggest arguments they had were about spilled champagne and ballroom dancing.

 

[gonecrackers]

Jacob is not for everyone, that's for sure. But we never did get an explanation of why Haley did not call Jake to let him know others arrived at their little honeymoon gathering - rather, she left him up in the room by himself believing she was having "a girls' night". That is deception, & I would not trust her either after that. The others were shitty as well, scattering away & not explaining why on Unfiltered either. If the guy has a dark side then I understand everyone steering clear, but, I would think production would love to hear about it & be using it by now. Maybe we'll get a bombshell soon on him. But for now, I'm not seeing any justification for their behavior. If I were Jake I would've bolted from this immature BS by now.

[gonecrackers]

 

1 hour ago, Stinamaia said:

He seems understandably hurt by Haley’s lack of attraction to him, but it kind of comes off as anger, and that makes Haley retreat.

I think he's rightfully angry & needs to leave this nonsense behind now. They only show what they want us to see to create a narrative. So we've seen him talk about himself - a lot. We've seen Haley sit there & act like she's in pain just looking at him. He tried to start discussions & I see a strong 'need to one-up condescending' vibe from Haley towards Jake. They've also shown him apologizing & agreeing to leave his interests, etc. behind, for someone who doesn't even like him. He's hosted a bunch of snobs at his home & endured nastiness toward his dogs. He shouldn't be playing along anymore as it's only going to get worse for him. He'll get more resentful & dig a bigger hole for himself releasing it in passive-aggressive ways. Haley will string him along & enjoy watching him implode.

On another note, I hate this season TBH, & not even sure I can ride it out anymore.

[Mindthinkr]

5 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

On another note, I hate this season TBH, & not even sure I can ride it out anymore.

I’ve had that same consideration. 
They need new experts or a different formula to make this work. They should give either the man or the women a choice of three. At least them we know there would be some physical attraction. That’s a big thing and the experts cannot possibly predict. 

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

Jacob is one of those people who were probably awkward in their youth and got a tremendous physical "glow up" in their adulthood but still do not understand why they can not keep women interested.  It reminds me of some women who put tremendous effort into their physical appearance because they felt geeky or unattractive in high school, but never really work on improving their inner selves. 

Yeah, I agree with this.  It reminds me of the cartoons when I was a kid where the dorky character gets sand kicked in his face at the beach by a big brute and loses the girl, then comes back with ginormous muscles only now he's still an awkward geek, except with muscles, LOL!

I hate to say it but I don't think Jake's physique is making him any more attractive to women - In fact I think it's quite possibly contributing to his problem because of the above.  He's quirky and a little odd to begin with, but add that and it's just one more layer of odd on top of already odd because it doesn't seem to fit.  Also, this is just me, but I know other women who also feel a little repulsed by people that are so into fitness that they look that bulked and cut all over.  Not that I think fitness is a bad thing to some degree, but to that extreme and with other aspects of attractiveness not being addressed, it looks a tad bit creepy to me.

[Stinamaia]

3 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

 

I think he's rightfully angry & needs to leave this nonsense behind now. They only show what they want us to see to create a narrative. So we've seen him talk about himself - a lot. We've seen Haley sit there & act like she's in pain just looking at him. He tried to start discussions & I see a strong 'need to one-up condescending' vibe from Haley towards Jake. They've also shown him apologizing & agreeing to leave his interests, etc. behind, for someone who doesn't even like him. He's hosted a bunch of snobs at his home & endured nastiness toward his dogs. He shouldn't be playing along anymore as it's only going to get worse for him. He'll get more resentful & dig a bigger hole for himself releasing it in passive-aggressive ways. Haley will string him along & enjoy watching him implode.

On another note, I hate this season TBH, & not even sure I can ride it out anymore.

I agree that the “girls” meeting was very poorly handled, and my feelings would have been hurt too.   However, anger may not be the way to achieve good results.  Jacob reads the worst into situations that may not be warranted, and because he is invested in being right, he doesn’t explore what Haley might be thinking or feeling. I think both Jacob and Haley are decent people, but terribly mismatched. Jacob has created a small world that satisfies him, and that world doesn’t appeal to Haley.  I also think she was put off by the sex for whatever reason. 
I’m more on Haley’s side because I also am put off by Jacob too, but I don’t think either are villains or bad.  They simply can’t align their perceptions.  They bewilder one another.  

[Yeah No]

10 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

 

I think he's rightfully angry & needs to leave this nonsense behind now. They only show what they want us to see to create a narrative. So we've seen him talk about himself - a lot. We've seen Haley sit there & act like she's in pain just looking at him. He tried to start discussions & I see a strong 'need to one-up condescending' vibe from Haley towards Jake. They've also shown him apologizing & agreeing to leave his interests, etc. behind, for someone who doesn't even like him. He's hosted a bunch of snobs at his home & endured nastiness toward his dogs. He shouldn't be playing along anymore as it's only going to get worse for him. He'll get more resentful & dig a bigger hole for himself releasing it in passive-aggressive ways. Haley will string him along & enjoy watching him implode.

On another note, I hate this season TBH, & not even sure I can ride it out anymore.

I don't see that anyone has a "right to be angry" to the extent that Jake has taken it with Haley if someone doesn't find them attractive.  He has treated her like he is entitled to her liking him "that way" and I just can't get on board with that, especially when he does it with anger and sour grapes towards her.  I don't think anyone on this show has a right to expect that just because the person married them they owe them finding them attractive.  That's something that either is there or isn't.  I don't find Jake attractive either and his personality sure isn't making up for it right now so I can't really blame Haley for pulling further away at this point.  He has been such a downer with her that I can't blame her for wanting a couple of hours with the others that don't do that to her.  He casts a pall on the room when they're together.  It's all about how he's feeling rejected and how he is angry and feels entitled to her finding him attractive when as far as I can tell he has done ZERO to encourage any of that in her, in fact, just the opposite.  At this point I also can't blame Haley for sticking it out through to the end, and I wouldn't call what she is doing "stringing him along".  She has been what I consider very open about her feelings about him all along - they're just not what he wants to hear and his negative reaction is only making her not like him and pull away all the more.  I think she is trying to be open to the idea of her feelings turning around but he is always sabotaging that from ever happening.

[Devvie]

There is nothing more unattractive to a healthy person than an insecure person who acts out.  Jake. Vinny.  Maybe Virginia is self medicating?  

F the contracts and money!  Money is nice, but not worth selling your soul . . . gotta wonder about the hypocrisy of both Paige and Chris putting money before their god (IF that's what's happening).  Especially when you compare Ryan to them.  Ryan seems to walk the walk and is thoughtful - he's abstaining from sex for the right reasons even though Clara doesn't get it. And, he's right, if she's not on the same page with things he feels deeply about then he's right not to lead her down a path (sex) that will make her think he's falling for her.  I respect him.  

[Yeah No]

9 minutes ago, Devvie said:

There is nothing more unattractive to a healthy person than an insecure person who acts out.  Jake. Vinny. 

I agree!  Plus in order to make others find you attractive you have to act attractive, not turn them off with anger even if you think they're not giving you a chance.  I think Jake in particular thought that along with marriage came the guarantee of a woman that was going to accept him without even putting in any effort to "get" her.  But that's not how any relationship works.  Usually guys accept that they have to do a little woo-ing or whatever to seal the deal with a woman, but all he can do is keep telling her how wrong she is for not finding him attractive.  I don't think he wants to put in the effort if it's not a "sure thing".  Well, I kind of doubt that's realistic in any situation.  If he keeps digging his heels in and sulking/lashing out until something comes from from her, that's for sure not going to work.  Dude, ACT attractive, and maybe she'll come around, don't double down and only further turn her off! 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Yeah No

[gonecrackers]

32 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I don't see that anyone has a "right to be angry" to the extent that Jake has taken it with Haley if someone doesn't find them attractive.  He has treated her like he is entitled to her liking him "that way" and I just can't get on board with that, especially when he does it with anger and sour grapes towards her.  I don't think anyone on this show has a right to expect that just because the person married them they owe them finding them attractive.  That's something that either is there or isn't.  I don't find Jake attractive either and his personality sure isn't making up for it right now so I can't really blame Haley for pulling further away at this point.  He has been such a downer with her that I can't blame her for wanting a couple of hours with the others that don't do that to her.  He casts a pall on the room when they're together.  It's all about how he's feeling rejected and how he is angry and feels entitled to her finding him attractive when as far as I can tell he has done ZERO to encourage any of that in her, in fact, just the opposite.  At this point I also can't blame Haley for sticking it out through to the end, and I wouldn't call what she is doing "stringing him along".  She has been what I consider very open about her feelings about him all along - they're just not what he wants to hear and his negative reaction is only making her not like him and pull away all the more.  I think she is trying to be open to the idea of her feelings turning around but he is always sabotaging that from ever happening.

He does have a right to be angry, but I was clear he needs to just get out instead of becoming more resentful toward her. She's a dud too, & has a mean, ugly sourpuss face. Neither are attractive IMO, but Jake cleaned up better on Unfiltered. I don't know if he weight lifts anymore; seemed in the past for him. Haley's a fake & has no problem being a fake. He's done with the game but has to play it out. They both need to cut strings & run.

[gonecrackers]

50 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

I’ve had that same consideration. 
They need new experts or a different formula to make this work. They should give either the man or the women a choice of three. At least them we know there would be some physical attraction. That’s a big thing and the experts cannot possibly predict. 

That's a very good idea, except I think they barely have enough people to choose one for each.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

He does have a right to be angry, but I was clear he needs to just get out instead of becoming more resentful toward her. She's a dud too, & has a mean, ugly sourpuss face. Neither are attractive IMO, but Jake cleaned up better on Unfiltered. I don't know if he weight lifts anymore; seemed in the past for him. Haley's a fake & has no problem being a fake. He's done with the game but has to play it out. They both need to cut strings & run.

Yeah, I'm not seeing her as having a "mean, ugly sourpuss face" or that she is stuck up and acting superior or condescending of him either.  Nor did I think her friends were snobs either.  She is acting a little puzzled by Jake in that way of "what did I get stuck with?", but look at the guy, he is not looking to me like the perfect match for most women, least of all her, so I can't fault her for that.  She also isn't my favorite person and may not have the best communication skills, but she isn't ugly or reminding me of anyone negative from my past, either.....**

** And I've had my share of stuck up snobby women in my past, too.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Yeah No

[StatisticalOutlier]

15 hours ago, pdlinda said:

Also, Clara has a cute figure; however, consuming donut after donut after donut (and more) I can see the projected effect of that type of "junk food" preference (she rejected the mere mention of vegetables) on her figure as the years go on.

You never know.  I've always had a diet low on vegetables and heavy on cookie dough and donuts, and it never affected my figure.  I have no idea why--probably genetics.  Or luck.  I'm not the type to win raffles or lotteries, but maybe I make up for it in being able to eat donuts.

Clara's young.  Maybe she'll pork out, and maybe she won't.  But it's not a guarantee, and it would be a shame if she gave up these foods she loves and the reality was that it wouldn't have affected her figure.  Of course, she'd never know, so there's that.

If I were her, I'd push those boundaries while I could, and back off if it seems to become necessary.  But I also thought Haley was cool for trying crabmeat again. 

 

15 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

After the adorable bike gift, Vinny really took a nosedive. He seems like he has serious anger issues triggered over nothing. You're sulking because you can't dance salsa, really?

About that salsa lesson.  First of all, it's dumb to try to learn to dance during a pandemic, because you can't partner up with the teacher to see how it's supposed to feel.  But second, I noticed that the teacher was showing both of them the same step, on the same foot.  Isn't salsa a traditional partner dance, where one person is going forward and the other is going backwards, and they are therefore on opposite feet?  Like the man steps forward with his left foot, while the woman steps backwards with her right foot. 

Well, actually, yes.  I just duckduckgoed "salsa" and this picture was over on the right:

Those two didn't learn that dance by standing side by side and learning the same step.  I don't know what that teacher was doing, but I felt bad for Vinny.  He over-reacted, of course, but I don't think his failure was all his fault.

[bichonblitz]

16 hours ago, DrewPaul2010 said:

He's still in the clouds. And she maybe capable of mind blowing sex...I know when intoxicated my sexual preferences became quite liberated. I think he is willing to give her his heart and soul but he has non-negotiable expectations. Having children is certainly a reasonable expectation. Just last season the issue came up and he said he doesn't believe in having children...but would for her.

Last season? Who are you talking about? 

 

16 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Eric is infatuated with Virginia because she's the hottest woman he's ever been with

Hottest? Not even close. I'm sure Erik has had his share of relationships with hot flight attendants that are just dying to bag a single, successful nice looking pilot. I know Erik is sort of nerdy but he's a good looking guy. Especially in a military pilot's uniform. I've only seen him like that in pictures but YUM!

[JustDuckie]

On 3/11/2021 at 12:37 AM, Racj82 said:

And...so what?

Well I could be wrong (I often am, lol) but don't airlines have weight restrictions? Maybe that's a thing of the past and I'm just showing my age, but I know they used to. I wouldn't think cookie dough and donuts would be good choices for that line of work. YMMV.