S05.E10: I've Got This

[MelisendeT]

6 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I think Toby has always been jealous of how close Kate and Kevin are.  (And of how good-looking Kevin is, dating back to when Toby was overweight.)  Now money is added to the mix with a direct comparison between the 2 households.  Thank goodness, Kevin and Madison aren't living in a fancy house.

I actually thought it was odd that Kevin's house looks so very basic. Everything about the place looks old - esp. the kitchen. The interior is gloomy and has too few windows. A lot of an actors income comes from residuals, so depending on how many years The Manny was on TV, he'd do very well from the reruns. I'm surprised that he doesn't have a better home. I also find it strange how Kate and Madison now seem like strangers when they used to be besties. 

[Blakeston]

5 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I was really frustrated with Kevin not listening when Toby said no to the Snoo.

Kevin's social obliviousness was really dialed up in this episode. Any idiot could see that Toby's pride was hurting, and that he was extremely sensitive to being seen as a charity case, and yet Kevin would not let up.

And then Kevin pressured Kate to agree to take his money any time she was short on cash, which was clearly not what her husband wanted, and would cause a big rift in her marriage if she actually went through with it. Kevin's got to fuel that superhero complex no matter what!

[Runningwild]

Do they make adult Snoos? Asking for a friend. 

[cameron]

Wow, think that Chrissy Metz is getting bigger.  She barely could fit between the counters in Kevin's kitchen.

[Haleth]

Oh, Kevin.  I know he was only trying to help but every time he opened his mouth about money issues I cringed.  I understand his heart is in the right place, but everything he offered was so over the top!  It would have been so much better had he taken Toby aside quietly and offered help if they thought they needed it, similar to how he spoke to Kate.  I don't blame Toby for blowing up.  The implicit judgment is not different than Beth was feeling re her mother.  Let them handle their problems and ask for help when they feel they need it.  There are a lot of stubborn people in that family.  LOL

I also thought that was going to be Sophie at the door.  Yay, Nicky!

Randall only brought up his mommy issues because Malik was asking him what it's like to grow up without a bio mother in one's life.  Randall wasn't making it about himself, he was asked specifically about it.  (But he really should have waited until Malik talked to Deja first.)

11 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Annie is one smart cookie.

We know she grows up to be a doctor, so yes!  Oops, that’s Deja.  Thanks for the correction, ams1001.

Are we going to get a back story on Isaac the Basil?

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Haleth

[Leeds]

51 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

Do they make adult Snoos? Asking for a friend. 

A "friend" tells me the "snug, safe swaddling" as described by the manufacturer is an especially attractive feature . . . .

[circumvent]

9 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Toby is exhausting. I get that losing a job is hard but damn, they hadn't even dipped into the savings yet! They have savings! Toby is in IT, that's a pretty good job market generally, And I gotta say, if my brother or brother-in-law wanted to buy a house in Malibu that I could vacation at, I would have no problem with that! Turning that down is just over the top.

Actually, in this situation there is a lot of emotion involved and emotions are not rational. Some people have trouble accepting help. I don't think it is over the top at all, I think it is pretty realistic. It happens and people will judge differently, but not unrealistic at all

 

5 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Could the writers make Tess any more of a stereotypical moody teenager?  What a piece of work

Teenagers are moody. Not a stereotype 😜

 

[Good Queen Jane]

Note to self: Never, EVER, have dinner with any of the Pearsons, including their spouses, in-laws and children. Except Annie.

[ams1001]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Playing credit card roulette is extremely tacky, especially at a work dinner. The rule at work dinners is that the highest-ranking person picks up the check (and usually expenses it, so it's not coming out of their own pocket, but even if it is, at least it's coming from the highest-paid person's pocket).

And Miguel even reminded them that Jack can't expense things like the bosses could, so clearly they would have done that. (Or the boss probably could have authorized Jack to expense one bill somehow; I once needed to expense a train ticket but I didn't have an account set up because I didn't normally travel, so my boss submitted it herself and gave me the cash. But since he was actually eating with the boss, there would be no reason to do that, unless the boss is just being a jerk.) But yeah, unless everyone is on the same social and financial level (at a level that can afford it) and equally willing to risk it, credit card roulette is just a bad idea, regardless of who you're eating with. 

3 hours ago, debraran said:

My mom was a 60's mom and handled the finances, my aunts did, my sisters and I, so that seemed so oppressive to me. Jack is impulsive and had a drinking problem, Rebecca wasn't stupid, no reason the person who shops and buys things shouldn't pay the bills. My mom would leave my dad a list of bills paid and amounts by his cereal bowl once a month and he'd push it aside and eat his shredded wheat. He trusted she saved and squeezed every penny which she did. I really don't like how Jack acts most of the time, the speeches, the angst, but many love him, so I try to just see the good.

My mom handled the bills, too (married in 1970). She even paid extra on their mortgage and my dad was surprised when they were able to pay it off earlier than expected. (He was the main breadwinner but she always worked, too; part-time stuff like retail and food when we were younger and then a full-time office job when we were old enough to be home alone in the afternoon.)

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

We know she grows up to be a doctor, so yes!

Deja is the one who becomes a doctor. Annie was picking her up at the hospital. Pretty sure we still don't know what she does. Because why would we know anything about her?

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, MelisendeT said:

I actually thought it was odd that Kevin's house looks so very basic. Everything about the place looks old - esp. the kitchen. The interior is gloomy and has too few windows. A lot of an actors income comes from residuals, so depending on how many years The Manny was on TV, he'd do very well from the reruns. I'm surprised that he doesn't have a better home.

I think he just moved into Madison's house.  It does surprise me that they are still living in a house that just seems so publicly accessible.  I would think they would want something at least behind a gate to keep fans, etc. at bay.

 

45 minutes ago, circumvent said:

Teenagers are moody. Not a stereotype 😜

I feel like Tess skates the edge between moody and just plain rude.   I know my mother would not tolerate Tess' tone with Beth, and I'm honestly a little surprised Beth tolerated it. 

3 hours ago, Blakeston said:

And then Kevin pressured Kate to agree to take his money any time she was short on cash, which was clearly not what her husband wanted, and would cause a big rift in her marriage if she actually went through with it. Kevin's got to fuel that superhero complex no matter what!

I'll defend Kevin on that a bit, and say Kate had the ability to say "no," and if she thought her husband would not like it, that's her problem to with which to deal, not Kevin's. 

[MissLucas]

I give Isaac this episode's MVP. (And Aasante Blackk's delivery of 'Oh God, you named him' was soooo good.)

As the youngest of four siblings who watched each of the other ones leaving while I was still in 'let's all live together forever' mood, Kevin's speech at the end really got to me. That said, I was happy to see him ready to move away from that fantasy and equally happy to see Nicky at the door - yet I realize that these two things won't go together in the long run.

I cut Toby some slack - that was a stressful day for him. Kevin being oblivious to the tension was also stressful but in character. I loved their apologies in the end with Toby's reassurance that this was not going to be an 'epic Pearson battle'. That said, Kate's promise to Kevin will come back to haunt us all - let's hope Isaac will still be around for some stress relief.

I see that Tess got the usual 'angsty-annoying teenager' treatment by the writers and of course Beth gets the matching 'clueless Mom' treatment (Beth of all characters on this show would not forget to use proper pronouns). It's frustrating to watch because I think Tess and Annie deserve better plots (well, Annie's at least got the smart-cookie prize this episode).

Kevin was great with Madison, buying her the dress after her 'cow' remarks and standing up for her during dinner were both good moments. I'm still waiting to learn about her family - somehow I expected her to burst out during the awkward dinner that she's got more money than Kevin so Toby can give him a break.

Really did not care about the flashbacks but Kate calling Rebecca and thanking her for all she did was lovely. Especially after all her Saint Jack moments we had to endure during previous seasons.

*off to buy a basil plant*

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by MissLucas

[TV Diva Queen]

table for one here: Deja is 15....FIFTEEN.  they're treating her crush with Maliq like they're grown.  yes kid's make mistakes that eventually can turn into blessings, but Deja is not the mom.  I'd have a real hard time if my 15 yo kid was dating a kid with a baby.  If only for the fact that its not going to end well.  They probably cant stop it, but they don't need to encourage it by making him one of the family. 

[RedbirdNelly]

I saw a lot of imperfect but understandable behavior.

Losing your job can be really hard on people. I've not experienced it personally, thank goodness, but my dad did and I remember the family stress. I still get a little nervous anytime my husband shows up unexpectedly early from work--because I will always remember where I was and what I was doing when my dad showed up early and the answer to the question from my grandmother "why, what are you doing here this early??" was "I lost my job." 

Kevin was trying to be helpful. I don't mind his conversation with Kate. That's a sibling conversation and up to her to navigate with Toby. And I took it as a safety net conversation--if things are bad, I've got you. It's what family does. 

I had no issue with Randall's conversation with Malik. Malik came to him. Malik isn't 8; he's old enough that if he comes to an adult and asks for advice there is no reason for Randall to say "I can't tell you anything; go talk to your parents" --at least not on this issue. Malik was looking for some feedback. 

I liked the opening montage of bath scenes. I remember getting everything set up for the first bath and the first few baths after that. It was a major production at first. 

12 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

And Aasante Blackk's delivery of 'Oh God, you named him' was soooo good.)

. . . .

12 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Really did not care about the flashbacks but Kate calling Rebecca and thanking her for all she did was lovely. Especially after all her Saint Jack moments we had to endure during previous seasons.

*off to buy a basil plant*

 

I loved his delivery of that line. I made me laugh

I thought it was really nice to see Kate call Rebecca and give her credit. It wasn't that long ago that Rebecca had real trouble doing that. It's nice to see some growth in the relationship. I also related to it--my mom paid the bills and handled so much day to day and we honestly took a lot of it for granted. 

[Ohiopirate02]

So we get another set-up episode.  I know the show is starting to wind down its storytelling, but I want them to peel back more layers to the characters as they go along**.  We already know Kevin doesn't get his Pearson Family Compound in Malibu because he does it in Pennsylvania.  The seeds have been planted for Kate and Toby to divorce if the show wants to go in that direction.  Or the show will have another explanation for the Toby we have already seen in 2030.  I do believe that Kate is alive and well in 2030 and is driving that final car we saw last episode.  

 

**Except for Jack.  The man has been dead since 1998.  Let him rest.  

[txhorns79]

21 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

table for one here: Deja is 15....FIFTEEN.  they're treating her crush with Maliq like they're grown.  yes kid's make mistakes that eventually can turn into blessings, but Deja is not the mom.  I'd have a real hard time if my 15 yo kid was dating a kid with a baby.  If only for the fact that its not going to end well.  They probably cant stop it, but they don't need to encourage it by making him one of the family. 

Yes, I think the current situation is one where Deja is too young to see things beyond viewing Jennifer as potential competition for Malik.  Jennifer is the baby's mother, and unless there is something wrong with Jennifer, everyone should want to encourage her to be a regular presence in her daughter's life, and to have a good parenting relationship with Malik, regardless of  how Malik's high school girlfriend might feel about it.   

 

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

**Except for Jack.  The man has been dead since 1998.  Let him rest. 

Hey, the show has already literally brought one dead character back from the grave.   

[Jillybean]

4 hours ago, MelisendeT said:

I actually thought it was odd that Kevin's house looks so very basic. Everything about the place looks old - esp. the kitchen. The interior is gloomy and has too few windows. A lot of an actors income comes from residuals, so depending on how many years The Manny was on TV, he'd do very well from the reruns. I'm surprised that he doesn't have a better home. I also find it strange how Kate and Madison now seem like strangers when they used to be besties. 

My husband said he thought that was Madison's house. I'm not sure Kevin owns a place in LA...? 

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

We know she grows up to be a doctor, so yes!

 

That was Deja we saw starting her internship (?). Annie was the one who picked her up, I think.

[RedDelicious]

I like Madison and Kevin's house 😞 It's probably one of those darling Hollywood cottages. I pin them often.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I get that it can be demoralizing to lose your job and frustrating to interview for a bunch of jobs in the middle of a pandemic. And I get wanting to feel like you're taking care of your family but JFC STFU TOBY! I am not here for your man pain.

First of all, Toby mentioned at the beginning of this episode that they haven't dipped into their savings so things are not dire.

Secondly, there's having pride and there's being stupid. Just because Kevin, YOUR WIFE'S BROTHER, makes an open ended offer of "if there's anything we can do in the mean time," it is not meant as an assault on your fragile ego. It was meant as a loving gesture because Kevin loves his sister and her children and he doesn't want any of you to go without. Toby was acting like Kevin just threatened to murder their dog. He didn't offer anything specific like "Let me give you a million dollars." He was just offering whatever you need, which could be something as simple as taking some of the free diapers that Jessica Alba sent to the house.

What makes me mad when people like Toby act offended at being offered help is that all he is thinking about is "how does this make ME feel?" instead of "how can this help my family?" Would you really rather your kids go without food because you were too proud to accept stuff that Kevin didn't even pay for? Put your fucking ego aside and think about your wife and children and what's best for them instead of how hurt your fee fees are because you assumed that someone was looking down on you/taking pity on you/making you a charity case.

I think his reaction just goes to show that Toby doesn't understand what it's like to truly be poor and desperate. He's letting his pride get in the way. I can tell you that when I was flat broke and living paycheck to paycheck, I would have gladly taken any help that anyone offered. I didn't ask for help but my godfather sent me a check for $100 out of the blue and I was so grateful because it meant that I could pay my rent that month.

On top of that, Toby tends to be a kind guy who loves big gestures so if the situation were reversed, you KNOW that he would be showering Kevin and Madison with anything he could to help them out. But somehow when the shoe is on the other foot, it's anathema to him.

I couldn't believe he was so against Kate going back to work. Like she said, she was always planning to go back eventually so why not? Sure, her salary wouldn't be enough to support their entire family but SOME money is better than NO money.

And I don't see anything wrong with sharing childcare. There are people in my brother in law's neighborhood who actively try to find people with kids around the same age so they can share a daytime nanny while the parents are at work (these are all kids like Kevin's and Kate's in that they're too young to start school yet). But once again, Toby was acting like Kevin just threatened to do something awful.

Besides, it's common for families to pitch in when it comes to childcare. I have a relative whose mother moved from California to the East Coast just so she could be near her very young grandchildren. She got her own place but since her daughter and son in law both worked full time, she spent most days with the kids. No one saw it as charity. Her son in law didn't feel threatened or insulted by it. Sharing a nanny seems like much less of an imposition than uprooting your entire life and moving across the country to be granny the built in babysitter.

And just for reference, Mr. EB was furloughed and then eventually laid off from his job last year due to the pandemic and somehow he has managed not act like a brat about it even ONCE since it happened. Suck on that, Toby!

Toby separating his family from Kevin's family completely disregards the part where Kevin and Kate are also that same kind of family. And that was especially callous knowing how close Kevin and Kate are.

There was a point where my dad got very jealous about my mom's close relationship with her sister. He complained to me that they spent too much time on the phone together (they lived in different states at the time, thousands of miles apart). I pointed out that my mom's relationship with her sister was like my relationship with my sisters. I told my dad that if I called him and told him that Mr. EB said I was spending too much time with my sisters, he (my dad) would be furious at Mr. EB for trying to come between my sisters and me. I'm sure Toby wants Jack and Haley to be close in the future so imagine how he would lose his mind if Haley told Toby that her husband said she was too close with Jack.

Toby was also totally out of line when he made a dig about Madison having a nanny. She has newborn twins and they can afford a nanny so Toby can fuck right off with HIS condescending attitude.

I didn't mind Kevin making Kate promise to ask if she or the kids ever need anything. As he said, Kevin's view of money is that what's his is theirs. If Toby is so dead set on not taking charity, he can look at it as a loan and pay Kevin back when he gets a new job.

It was nice to hear Kate thank Rebecca for how she managed their family finances and never let the kids feel like they lacked for anything. That's one of the skills of a great parent. Kids should grow up the way Kevin, Kate, and Randall did: blissfully unaware of their parents' financial struggles.

Both times that Kate said the name "Dr. Salzman," I was looking for Alaric.

10 hours ago, Jeddah said:

He’s so important that the city of Philadelphia would burn if can’t answer his phone during dinner! Yet, he just left that city during a pandemic to go to New Orleans because he received an email from Hai.

It's okay because he still had his phone in New Orleans. If Philadelphia had been on fire, someone would have called him about it and he would have micromanaged the entire crisis from afar!

10 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I'm a little worried about Randall's attachment to Isaac, the basil plant. One day he's going to come home from work and find that Beth's mother accidentally-on-purpose used it to make pesto. He'll have another existential crisis that will involve a long road trip and a hallucination.

But will Randall go skinnydipping with Isaac the basil?

4 hours ago, MelisendeT said:

I actually thought it was odd that Kevin's house looks so very basic. Everything about the place looks old - esp. the kitchen. The interior is gloomy and has too few windows. A lot of an actors income comes from residuals, so depending on how many years The Manny was on TV, he'd do very well from the reruns. I'm surprised that he doesn't have a better home. I also find it strange how Kate and Madison now seem like strangers when they used to be besties. 

Kevin moved into Madison's house after she got pregnant.

Edited March 17, 2021 by ElectricBoogaloo

[TV Diva Queen]

17 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

My husband said he thought that was Madison's house. I'm not sure Kevin owns a place in LA...? 

That was Deja we saw starting her internship (?). Annie was the one who picked her up, I think.

Do we know anything about Madison to know who she can afford that house? While its shabby for Kevin's crazy money, its pretty fancy for what I thought Madison was.  LOL.  I have nothing to go on but I didn't think she had money. PS, I'm not doubting your hubby:) 

[kili]

Toby probably shouldn't be wearing a suit to his zoom interview for a tech job. If the partner who is interviewing isn't wearing a suit, that's a sign. Wearing a suit can make you look like a dinosaur and can send a subtle hint that your skills are as old as your dressing style. Smart casual is they way to go. And don't look so desperate. That can scare of the interviewers as well.

I'm not completely sure why he is doing the interview in a fake office in the garage either when he has to bring Hailey out there anyway.  Kate should have taken Hailey with her if Toby had an important interview.  Maybe he just usually does it there to get away from the kids.

Toby has often been prickly about Kevin's nonchalant spending. He blew up when Kevin booked out a restaurant for their birthday. I don't think Kevin is condescending about his money, he just doesn't seem overly possessive. He had no problems giving Kate his candy when they were trick-or-treating. It may be because Kevin thinks he can just get more or maybe Kevin is just not all that materialistic. He was happy to trade a luxury hotel for Randall's basement cot, so he seems pretty happy anywhere. He spends money to get what he wants, but he's happy to have less. Money is a tool for him.

Madison is really taking to being a Mom. Kevin should have at least asked about her family while he was waxing on about his.

Malik has to be careful with Jennifer. Courts like it when both parents are involved. If he keeps Jennifer out, the courts may award her partial custody. If he lets her in, she may become in love with Janelle and sue for partial custody. Unless Jennifer terminated her rights (which she would have done with adoption, but Malik fought her for custody), then she probably has a legal remedy to get back at least partial custody. That's going to be hard on Malik who has already taken on a lot of hard work. Tough for his parents who just want to protect their child and grand child. 

[Lady Calypso]

There was definitely a lot going on this episode. I appreciate getting Toby in the forefront this episode. With the whole situation at the family dinner, I think they did a good job at displaying the different sides to Toby snapping and Kevin's obliviousness. I can see Kevin meaning well when he offered to help them out. His heart was in the right place, but I also get why Toby would feel like he couldn't take Kevin's help and why he was reacting the way that he was. Jealousy, sadness over the loss of his job, helplessness that he isn't making any money, etc. Sure, Toby/Kate might be alright at the moment but I can see why Toby is desperate to get a job before they have to dip into their savings. He probably just wants to get back to a normal routine (even if we never saw him go to work ever).

Granted, I did not like what he said to Kevin or about Madison (let the new mother do what she wants! I'm glad Kevin quickly stood up for Madison) and I hated that he basically told Kate that she wouldn't make enough money for them to live comfortably and that she shouldn't even bother because HE'S the only one that could be the moneymaker) but people who are emotional don't act rationally. Toby lost his job; that would cause plenty of people to lash out and say things they shouldn't say. I appreciate how HUMAN this episode made Toby. 

But, he also made some good points that I assume has been on his mind for years. Him thinking that Kevin lives in a fantasy world because Toby could never make the money that Kevin makes isn't exactly wrong. Kevin is extremely privileged in his career and can afford to pay for nannies and pay for houses and items that many just can't. I can see why Toby wouldn't want to rely on Kevin and his money to survive. And, right now, because Toby and Kate aren't broke or anything, he can afford to decline anything that Kevin offers. And I'm so glad that Kevin recognized that by the end. And I'm glad that Kevin still asked Kate to always come to him IF they got desperate enough for money.

So, the whole plot was filled with emotion, rather than logic, and that's fine with me. Shitty things based on some grain of truth in places. 

Beth's mother is certainly judgmental and I don't completely buy that she wasn't judging Beth, on some level. I wouldn't ever offer my mother to come live with me, though. So I'd hope that Beth offered to help find a place closer to them instead, because having Beth's mother live indefinitely with them when they've already downsized and already have three kids is...a lot. 

Listen, the Malik stuff is a lot for anyone, especially a 15 year old girl. These kids are still kids, even if one kid has his own kid. This is likely to end in heartbreak. I appreciate Randall wanting to help out Malik, because Malik came to him and at least he did go to someone, but he's definitely stuck in between his daughter and her boyfriend and it's probably best to step off from here on out.

The flashbacks with Jack? Eh. Yet another example of Jack's pride getting in the way and him screwing over his family because he thinks that he needs to pay money to be respected.  

[circumvent]

7 minutes ago, kili said:

Toby probably shouldn't be wearing a suit to his zoom interview for a tech job. If the partner who is interviewing isn't wearing a suit, that's a sign.

Counter point: tech companies are probably more interested in what you can do than on how you look. The ideal of that tech companies have this all fun, quirky, colorful (also metaphorically) environment is mostly PR. They are a business that have t deal with other clients so while some might even mock what they would consider "overdressing", that's not what prevents someone to get a job

[amarante]

Did they ever address the career repercussions for Kevin walking off the set? That cost productions a huge amount of money - in real life there would have been repercussions and might have caused possible career problems. 

[MissLucas]

With regards to Madison's profession and money: fan Wiki claims she's a banker but it's not clear where they gleamed that info from. When she crashed into Kate's car during season 2 she drove a Range Rover Evoque - not a car person so I have no idea what that says about her finances.

[Leeds]

 

49 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

First of all, Toby mentioned at the beginning of this episode that they haven't dipped into their savings so things are not dire.

 

 

I didn't understand Toby's comment.  Hasn't he been unemployed for several months (including during the adoption)?  If they had enough money in their checking account to afford to live in Southern California, paying rent/mortgage, insurance, car payments, the adoption costs, baby Jack's special needs costs, daily living expenses, etc, then they are stupid and need to talk to a financial advisor pronto.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

the free diapers that Jessica Alba sent to the house.

I'm assuming they were Honest diapers..?

 

[Leeds]

51 minutes ago, kili said:

Toby probably shouldn't be wearing a suit to his zoom interview for a tech job. If the partner who is interviewing isn't wearing a suit, that's a sign. Wearing a suit can make you look like a dinosaur and can send a subtle hint that your skills are as old as your dressing style. Smart casual is they way to go. And don't look so desperate. That can scare of the interviewers as well.

 

Toby wearing a suit would also be an indication to the other partners that he hadn't researched the company's "culture" and was so out of touch that he thought IT companies still have an IBM dress code.  And might suggest that, as you say, he had the tech skills of a dinosaur (or me).

And I totally agree, the desperate "I've been on loads of interviews and really need a job" is a terrible tactic at any job interview, if only because it can suggest that you really don't have the skills for the position.  (The interviewer was a dick for telling Toby the job was pretty much in the bag, but it didn't make any difference to him whether he said it or not.)

[RedDelicious]

Kevin does live in a world many people fantasize about. He's got a small fortune's worth of baby gear and supplies for their two children that wealthy celebrities sent to them. After the gifts one receives at a baby shower (which are usually a lot of clothes and toys), regular people have to buy that stuff themselves.

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by RedDelicious

[Ohiopirate02]

20 minutes ago, Leeds said:

 

I didn't understand Toby's comment.  Hasn't he been unemployed for several months (including during the adoption)?  If they had enough money in their checking account to afford to live in Southern California, paying rent/mortgage, insurance, car payments, the adoption costs, baby Jack's special needs costs, daily living expenses, etc, then they are stupid and need to talk to a financial advisor pronto.

Toby was laid off the day Hailey came home from the hospital.  I assume he was given a severance package that would keep them above water for a couple of months.

[zoey1996]

12 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I do feel better that the girls weren't left alone while Beth and Randall were in Louisiana.

I did as well!

12 hours ago, KaveDweller said:one.

I wasn't impressed with Rebecca handling the finances either. I have never been married, but should both spouses be involved in that?

 

12 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I’m so sick of Jack and Rebecca. Miguel gave Jack an out to avoid paying, but nope, Jack had to be an idiot about it. And, oooooh, look at Rebecca stepping up to handle the finances! Was I supposed to be impressed by that?

I don’t know if you were supposed to be impressed by that, but I was.  She saw there was a problem with Jack handling the family finances, and instead of waiting until it got worse, she stepped up to do what was needed.

Back then (and not as long ago as we’d like to think), the man of the house was the breadwinner, and his wife took a backseat when it came to handling money in many aspects.  There were exceptions, of course.  With some couples, both participated in money decisions; others, depending on talent, interest, and available time, would have one partner do most or all of the financial decisions, work, etc. YMMV.

[3 is enough]

3 hours ago, circumvent said:

Teenagers are moody. Not a stereotype 😜

Yes and no.  I raised 3 teenagers.  They weren't perfect and they all had their moments to be sure, but they were not consistently rude, snippy, and disrespectful like Tess.  She is downright unpleasant.  And not just in this episode.  We have seen it in the past. I am surprised Beth just lets her get away with it.

I feel for Toby.  Losing your job is incredibly stressful, especially when you have a newborn and a special needs toddler.  Add the pandemic and increased competition for whatever jobs are available and you have all the elements for an epic meltdown.  Sure, he overreacted, but having Pearson in-laws is tough enough during good times.  

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

 

Beth's mother is certainly judgmental and I don't completely buy that she wasn't judging Beth, on some level.

The mean part of me was thinking that maybe Phylicia Rashad was a better parent than Beth?  I get that it's grandma v. mom, but she certainly seemed to have a better handle on the kids than Beth did, and they responded to her much more respectfully than they did their mother.  I also feel like Phylicia Rashad could just give those kids a look, and they would immediately fall into line.  

[Leeds]

17 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Toby was laid off the day Hailey came home from the hospital.  I assume he was given a severance package that would keep them above water for a couple of months.

Thanks for the clarification!  These days I tend to watch This is Us with only half my attention. 

[Lady Calypso]

10 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

The mean part of me was thinking that maybe Phylicia Rashad was a better parent than Beth?  I get that it's grandma v. mom, but she certainly seemed to have a better handle on the kids than Beth did, and they responded to her much more respectfully than they did their mother.  I also feel like Phylicia Rashad could just give those kids a look, and they would immediately fall into line.  

It's not that Beth's mother is a better parent, but they both handle parenting differently. Plus, teenagers tend to listen to anyone other than their parents more, sometimes even grandparents. Beth is a wonderful parent, but she just isn't as strict with them as her own mother is. There is nothing wrong with that, and teenagers are notorious for being rebellious and not obeying their parents (my sister was like that, for sure). Plus, Beth's mother has that look that just makes you not want to disobey. My own grandmother had that look that terrified me into my early 20s.

[greekmom]

Boy was I glad when Nicky was on the other end of that door. I had this sick feeling that Madison called that paparazzi for photos. 

Toby has issues with money. First, when did Kate ever have a full time job (since her teen years at the record store)? What I noticed as well that Toby had the light ring that makes your face look nicer during the zoom call.

At this point I think they need to stop the flash backs with Jack and Rebecca.  

There was some great one liners tonight. My fave was the Ramada Inn remark by Beth.

[Empress1]

31 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Toby was laid off the day Hailey came home from the hospital.  I assume he was given a severance package that would keep them above water for a couple of months.

He'd also be eligible for unemployment since he was laid off, not fired for cause. It's not much (I think in CA it's $450/week max depending on your income at the job from which you were laid off, and I assume he'd get the max), but between that and severance and maybe paid-out unused vacation time, I could see them being OK for a couple of months. 

 

[memememe76]

9 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

He'd also be eligible for unemployment since he was laid off, not fired for cause. It's not much (I think in CA it's $450/week max depending on your income at the job from which you were laid off, and I assume he'd get the max), but between that and severance and maybe paid-out unused vacation time, I could see them being OK for a couple of months. 

 

And the Covid Relief package! Heh

Carol is a high school principal (I guess she has retired? I vaguely recall her stubbornly refusing to retire), so she has likely met her fair share of Tesses, Annies, and Dejas. I wonder if Carol will assist Beth in rebuilding her dance studio. We know from the flashforwards that it is a big success.

And seeing them in the same episode, I think Phylicia Rashad and Griffin Dunne would have really interesting chemistry?

[JudyObscure]

21 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Yes and no.  I raised 3 teenagers.  They weren't perfect and they all had their moments to be sure, but they were not consistently rude, snippy, and disrespectful like Tess.  She is downright unpleasant.  And not just in this episode.  We have seen it in the past. I am surprised Beth just lets her get away with it.

 

Yes.  My son never once talked to me that way.  You teach people how to treat you. Even if Beth  allows it, I'm surprised Randall doesn't go the, "You don't talk to your mother that way," route.

I feel bad for Kate when people sneer at her for not having a career going on.  She spent the last few years raising a baby,  that's the hardest job I ever did, added to which he has a disability with the extra work and learning curve that entailed. She has the cleaning, cooking, shopping and laundry to do for the family, takes walks with the baby, the dog and the neighbor, and now has a brand new second baby before the first one is out of diapers with all the middle of the night feeding and teething business. It's great that she's found a job where she can take the babies along but that's a very rare job indeed.  Otherwise, as Toby was trying to say, any entry level job she might get would probably not result in  much profit after childcare for two,  work clothes, transportation was taken out.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, kili said:

I'm not completely sure why he is doing the interview in a fake office in the garage either when he has to bring Hailey out there anyway.  Kate should have taken Hailey with her if Toby had an important interview.  Maybe he just usually does it there to get away from the kids.

The backdrop in the garage made no sense to me either. People know that everyone is at home so they don't expect you to be in a pristine/professional looking setting for a zoom interview. As long as it doesn't look like you're sitting in the middle of a disaster area or have visible porn, most people are understanding about the pandemic circumstances. All you need is a neutral looking wall that you can sit in front of. Their house is pretty nice so he could have done this interview in any room of the house without needing to hang a sheet.

Quote

Toby has often been prickly about Kevin's nonchalant spending. He blew up when Kevin booked out a restaurant for their birthday. I don't think Kevin is condescending about his money, he just doesn't seem overly possessive. He had no problems giving Kate his candy when they were trick-or-treating. It may be because Kevin thinks he can just get more or maybe Kevin is just not all that materialistic. He was happy to trade a luxury hotel for Randall's basement cot, so he seems pretty happy anywhere. He spends money to get what he wants, but he's happy to have less. Money is a tool for him.

I agree. Kevin might be splashy when he spends his money, but he isn't ostentatious about it. If he buys something expensive like the Snoo, it's not to show off. In this particular case, it's because he knew that Kate and Toby had used one with Jack and he saw how well it worked for the twins. As a new dad who is sleep deprived, he saw how awesome the Snoo was and he wanted to make things easier for Kate and Toby.

As the saying goes, Kevin doesn't have a problem with money because he has lots of it. But what I like is that throughout all five seasons, he has shown that he doesn't do lavish things for attention, to get good PR, or to show off. He does it because to him, money isn't a big deal. For him, buying a Snoo is how I would feel about going out to lunch or sending flowers for someone's birthday. It's an extremely affordable expense that doesn't put a noticeable dent in my checking account, so it's not something to agonize over. For him, getting a $1200 baby thing for his sister is how a normie like you or I wouldn't think twice about paying for a friend's popcorn at the movies. I like that adult Kevin has been shown to be very generous with his money. He doesn't expect anything in return. He doesn't hold it over someone's head that he bought them something expensive. He just wants them to be happy and he has the means to do it.

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

Counter point: tech companies are probably more interested in what you can do than on how you look. The ideal of that tech companies have this all fun, quirky, colorful (also metaphorically) environment is mostly PR. They are a business that have t deal with other clients so while some might even mock what they would consider "overdressing", that's not what prevents someone to get a job

Many companies (tech and non-tech) won't hire you if they think that you won't fit into the company culture. If you're the only one who showed up for the interview in a suit, they might see that as a sign that you won't fit in with the hoodie wearing employees and their mentality. And since Toby is an IT manager, he would only be dealing with the company employees, not clients.

[Blakeston]

Tess's attitude/behavior is extremely common for a 13-year-old nowadays.

Part of me expected Beth to be a strict parent, but we've seen in the past that she's pretty lax about letting the girls mouth off (like when they berated her for forgetting the credit card reader when they were selling Girl Scout cookies.) I'm guessing that Beth is trying to avoid becoming her mother - which is understandable considering how overbearing her mother is.

I feel like it's a huge cliche at this point when a Black adult character's elderly parent is depicted as a hyper-judgmental scold who pulls rank all the time, and expects their offspring do everything a certain way. I get that there are certainly parents like this in real life, and that respect for one's elders is big in Black culture, but not all Black parents of that generation can be placed in the same box.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

With regards to Madison's profession and money: fan Wiki claims she's a banker but it's not clear where they gleamed that info from. When she crashed into Kate's car during season 2 she drove a Range Rover Evoque - not a car person so I have no idea what that says about her finances.

2021 Evoque starts at $43K...

2 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Many companies (tech and non-tech) won't hire you if they think that you won't fit into the company culture. If you're the only one who showed up for the interview in a suit, they might see that as a sign that you won't fit in with the hoodie wearing employees and their mentality. And since Toby is an IT manager, he would only be dealing with the company employees, not clients.

On the other hand, isn't it pretty standard to dress a little nicer for an interview? Even if the company culture is jeans and sneakers, I wouldn't expect someone to wear that for an interview when they're trying to make a good impression. (I'd think his "I've had 30 interviews with no nibbles" comment would be a bigger factor than him wearing pretty standard business attire for an interview.)

[bichonblitz]

Toby, accept the damn snoo as a lovely baby gift that your brother-in-law can certainly afford and thank him for the offer to extend some money if they need it, but everything is good for now. Be a decent person. 

Since when has Jack been bad at handling money? Just because he put a business dinner on a new credit card Rebecca has to take over the finances? 

Kevin wants a do over with the family. He wants everybody to be together living happily ever after on a beautiful compound in Malibu. I love him for that, no matter how far fetched that dream is. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by bichonblitz

[Aloeonatable]

7 hours ago, debraran said:

My mom was a 60's mom and handled the finances, my aunts did, my sisters and I, so that seemed so oppressive to me. Jack is impulsive and had a drinking problem, Rebecca wasn't stupid, no reason the person who shops and buys things shouldn't pay the bills. My mom would leave my dad a list of bills paid and amounts by his cereal bowl once a month and he'd push it aside and eat his shredded wheat. He trusted she saved and squeezed every penny which she did. I really don't like how Jack acts most of the time, the speeches, the angst, but many love him, so I try to just see the good.

I'm a 70's mom/wife and I have always handled the finances in our family. My husband was just not that interested. He hates waiting in lines, so very rarely would he go to the store or the bank or anything like that. If we had any expense that was out of the norm, we would always discuss it. Jack was definitely a man of his time. As for paying the dinner bill, he was trying to show that group of men that he wasn't just a foreman. It was foolish, but I completely understand why he had to offer up his credit card.

 

[Empress1]

8 hours ago, debraran said:

Did Kevin keep his movie job? Why all the money "this job is giving him" 

I assume he meant his job as an actor generally, not any project he's working on at this moment.

Money is such a funny thing with families. In my experience, families who take a communal approach to money tend to be either wealthy or poor - poor because everyone needs to pool resources (including things like child care) in order to function, and wealthy because of inherited wealth. I actually think it's great that Kevin has this communal approach to money, but I don't know that I would be comfortable having him fund my whole life either (although I would, and have, taken a lift over a rough spot from family).

That call between Kate and Rebecca was really nice, on both sides - Rebecca reassuring Kate that she's stronger than she knows, and Kate thanking Rebecca for what she did with them as kids.

Randall was fun this episode. His excitement over his basil plant and his "I don't think so Jennifer! Tacky" cracked me up.

I like the idea of Carol staying with the family. This show kind of plays fast and loose with COVID (like, is Tess's girlfriend in their pod? Should she be going over to the house?), but "is it wise for my widowed 70-year-old mother to be alone in a pandemic?" is the kind of conversation the family should have. Same with Uncle Nicky.

11 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

As for paying the dinner bill, he was trying to show that group of men that he wasn't just a foreman. It was foolish, but I completely understand why he had to offer up his credit card.

As someone else said, credit card roulette at a business dinner is tacky as hell. I see why Jack felt pressured, but he shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Empress1

[LexieLily]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

The mean part of me was thinking that maybe Phylicia Rashad was a better parent than Beth?  I get that it's grandma v. mom, but she certainly seemed to have a better handle on the kids than Beth did, and they responded to her much more respectfully than they did their mother.  I also feel like Phylicia Rashad could just give those kids a look, and they would immediately fall into line.  

In a few episodes Tess or Deja can try to sneak out of the house and Phylicia Rashad can give her Claire Huxtable Big Fun With The Wretched speech. 

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Claire Huxtable Big Fun With The Wretched speech. 

I LOVE THIS SPEECH. I can quote it. "Cliff, tell me: have you ever been to Wilmington for donuts?"

[Katy M]

4 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

table for one here: Deja is 15....FIFTEEN.  they're treating her crush with Maliq like they're grown.  yes kid's make mistakes that eventually can turn into blessings, but Deja is not the mom.  I'd have a real hard time if my 15 yo kid was dating a kid with a baby.  If only for the fact that its not going to end well.  They probably cant stop it, but they don't need to encourage it by making him one of the family. 

Did you watch Secret Life of the American Teenager.  It was just oh so awful. But, it starts out with a 15 year old pregnant girl and some guy who is not the father proposes to her and his father is all "this is great.  These kids should totally get married."  I was like "what????"  

[One Imaginary Girl]

I thought that Madison was pretty likable, in a quirky way, before she was pregnant, and it looks like that old Madison is back now--she's been funnier and livelier.  During the pregnancy, she seemed so morose, but I suppose that being pregnant with twins in a relationship that you're not sure about could do that to a person.

Edited March 17, 2021 by One Imaginary Girl

[RedbirdNelly]

I enjoyed Beth and her mom. Mom is overstepping but I enjoyed Beth gaining understanding into her mom. It didn't make the judgment stuff ok, but at least she gained insight. It also is realistic. Beth's mom was definitely laying on the judgment but it's also very common for daughters to hear judgment even when none is intended. At least it happens to me a lot (in the daughter role). My mom is honestly trying to be helpful, but she does it in a passive aggressive way (because she thinks it makes it nicer) but it comes across as very judgy and gets on my nerves. "Oh, so you [do XYZ] THAT way?? I always did it this way." My husband has the amazing skill set of just honestly letting it roll of his back--per him "why do you care if she likes how you did it or not? I don't." 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 minutes ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

I thought that Madison was pretty likable, in a quirky way, before she was pregnant, and it looks like that old Madison back now--she's been funnier and livelier.  During the pregnancy, she seemed so morose, but I suppose that being pregnant with twins in a relationship that you're not sure about could do that to a person.

I think a significant portion of that was also related to her being a woman with an eating disorder who knew that her body was going to get large and that she would have to force herself to eat and stay healthy for the sake of the babies. That alone would be a huge stress, but to be pregnant during a pandemic AND knowing that you were not in a relationship with the father beforehand? I could see how that would be a lot for her to take. Now that the babies have been delivered and they're safe and healthy and her body is back to its old size and she's in a committed relationship with Kevin, a lot of that stress has been relieved so she's back to being herself.