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S01.E07: Breaking the Fourth Wall


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General spec is fine in the episode topic, but if you're going to speculate based on the comics, please consider taking it to the MU/MCU topic or spoiler tagging it in here. Posts with comic-based spec may be removed. Thank you.

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Vision and awakened Darcy were still in 16:9 aspect ratio, and so was Monica confronting Wanda. The only time inside Westview where it went to 2.40:1 was when Wanda entered the spooky part of the basement, and the mid-credits scene where Monica snooped around Agnes' house. Well, also when Monica breached the barrier, but interestingly as she makes it through and ditches the spacesuit, the aspect ratio opens up to 16:9.

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7 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I would agree that they don't have the Mind Stone, but isn't there a yellow gem in his forehead?  What is that?

I assume it's the superhero equivalent of cubic zirconium. Of course, on this crazy-ass ride, Wanda/Agatha/Player to Be Named Later might have somehow tapped into or procured an extradimensional copy of the Mind Stone for all I know. 

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I liked that the “broadcast” is now offline, given that this sitcom format basically exists after the end of analog TV.  SWORD needed to hook up a digital adapter if they wanted to catch this episode...

Not much else to say, other than this show is fantastic, and I can’t wait for next week.

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I'm guessing Billy saying Agatha is quiet because she's not screaming internally like the rest of Westview. 

I'm still going with Agatha is the shark feeding of Wanda's powers. I'm not sure why though, so I'm interested in finding that out.

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11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

So Monica has superpowers/is a mutant now? Awesome. I really am looking forward to Captain Marvel 2 now.

She has powers, but unless the MCU changes the definition of mutant, she is not one. In the comics mutants are specifically people born with powers due to mutations in their genes. 

That said, though, Monica got her powers from moving through the barrier, but she isn't the only one who has done so (Darcy, for instance, has now done it as well). Granted, Monica's been through multiple times, from both sides, but maybe she did have some genetic predisposition that allowed it and that the barrier kickstarted.

8 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

A lot of spec lately was Adam Brashear. Nope, some anonymous S.W.O.R.D. friend of Maria. Not everything is an easter egg.

I agree (and it sometimes surprises me what people try to turn into easter eggs). On the other hand, the "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" writing certainly felt designed to hint at a greater mystery. They drew more attention to it by not naming them than if they had simply said, the first time they were mentioned, "My old army buddy Ms. No-one can probably help us out!"

13 hours ago, Zahdii said:

Wanda is real, but is Vision?  After a few episodes he seems to be real, too.  (Last episode I thought that he couldn't live outside the Hex, but now I'm not so sure.)

I think he is, and this episode kind of confirmed that to me. They said Hayward was trying to revive the Vision, but couldn't until Wanda came along. So there was at least a hope/thought that they could restore him, otherwise it was kind of a wasted effort. The fact that it took Wanda to complete that process doesn't necessarily mean that she is the only thing keeping him alive- after all, we know she had a special connection to the Mind Stone. Maybe she is still able to simulate whatever the stone did to restart his consciousness.

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Although Wanda created the town and definitely expanded the borders last episode I think the point of the the Agatha’s theme song was to show she has in fact been messing with Westview as well.   There have in fact been times where things have happened that were out of Wanda’s control and that was Agatha messing with her.  Agatha was the one who recast Pietro but he is still Pietro (I assume) so his loyalty might actually be with Wanda.   I also do think it is Agatha keeping Vision away.     Wanda was genuinely surprised confused and saddened that Vision wasn’t there and I think this was Agatha jerking him away because she knew he reached the edge of town and was going to confront Wanda so was biding her time for her own big “It was me....” reveal.   
 

 

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So many tone shifts in this episode.  And the Agatha intro was hilarious.  Is Monica going to have to rescue Wanda and the boys?

It was telling that Wanda said Pietro isn't really Pietro.

Speaking of which, the boys are really great.  Especially Billy.

Nexus, the gateway between realities.  I'd like a dose of that.

Ooh, an after scene.  Finally.

 

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5 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Agatha was the one who recast Pietro but he is still Pietro (I assume) so his loyalty might actually be with Wanda.   I also do think it is Agatha keeping Vision away.  

My read is that Pietro is totally fake. Like an actor who knows enough public knowledge about Wanda to fake being her brother. That is why his memory of their childhood Halloween doesn't match what she remembers.

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8 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I can't think of any other sitcom styles to be used. The family sitcom is so limp right now.

My dream (and I don't think this would ever happen or even work), is that the final episode would be Cougar Town. Wanda is divorced hanging out with her neighbor all the time drinking giant glasses of wine. Vision lives on a boat and they are still kind of friends. But that would be even more of a deeper cut than the happy endings opening. Plus I don't think there are enough side characters to make it work.

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9 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

I don't know whose idea it was to hire the Frozen songwriters to do the themes, but give them a raise. The Agatha All Along theme was perfect.

Christophe Beck - Grammy and Emmy winner.  Kristen and Robert Lopez, Grammy, Emmy and Oscar winners.

 

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7 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Although Wanda created the town and definitely expanded the borders last episode I think the point of the the Agatha’s theme song was to show she has in fact been messing with Westview as well.   There have in fact been times where things have happened that were out of Wanda’s control and that was Agatha messing with her.  Agatha was the one who recast Pietro but he is still Pietro (I assume) so his loyalty might actually be with Wanda.   I also do think it is Agatha keeping Vision away.     Wanda was genuinely surprised confused and saddened that Vision wasn’t there and I think this was Agatha jerking him away because she knew he reached the edge of town and was going to confront Wanda so was biding her time for her own big “It was me....” reveal.   
 

 

For my money, it remains to be seen whether Wanda originally created the town and Agatha just is feeding/manipulated it, if Agatha created it, if Player to Be Named later created it.

It seems to me that there were definitely limits to Agatha's influence. She (apparently) could not just magic Monica out of Westview. either when she first encountered her or in this episode. So I dunno if Agatha actually recast Pietro or is just trying to take more credit than she's due.

You made me laugh because you reminded me of the Queen of Thorns' "It was me!" I hope someone makes a similar Agnes All Along meme at some point.

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1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

I'm guessing Billy saying Agatha is quiet because she's not screaming internally like the rest of Westview. 

I'm still going with Agatha is the shark feeding of Wanda's powers. I'm not sure why though, so I'm interested in finding that out.

I can't find the quote now, but someone upthread said that Wanda was the 'battery', so even if she didn't create Westview itself she must have created the barrier and was not only keeping it up at all times but expanded it a great deal last week. I expect that takes a lot of power, since they even had a name for the radiation it was giving off. If Agatha is the 'shark', she might have been siphoning off of her all this time.

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2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Wait, does this mean that Agatha is...the Wicked Witch of Westview? 

Agnes is really going full Disney villain, complete with wicked witch costume, evil laughter, magic powers, and an instantly memorable and ridiculously catchy villain song. She is even a "twist" villain like a lot of modern Disney movies have had. I love it. 

What all was in that basement? I thought I saw skulls, some Stranger Things vines, doors with very hellish light shining out of them, some creepy animal head, and a book that looks suspiciously like the Necronomicon. 

Well, I guess we got the answer to what would happen after “and your little dog too”.....

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Thinking about this show all day, since that's what Friday's are now for me, I really appreciated the Agnes reveal. The clues were there, and I've been convinced she was Agatha Harkness since, like, the 2nd episode, but I was still Surprised Pikachu when it happened. I really hate when writers switch stuff up at the end of a story line because fans have figured stuff out. I don't know that it ever works because I end up twisting my brain in knots to make it make sense. And there was enough to guess on with each episode that the speculation was still interesting, and the reveal was so fun, I'll be earworming "It was Agatha all along."

So thanks, WandaVision, for leading to the logical conclusion on this aspect.

Edited by calliope1975
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I didn't watch The Office, and I didn't even think of mockumentaries. I thought maybe she'd phased into reality shows that became popular in the 90's. I could understand why she was flipping through comedy shows, because things usually work out for everyone by the end of the episode. 

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1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

Although Wanda created the town and definitely expanded the borders last episode I think the point of the the Agatha’s theme song was to show she has in fact been messing with Westview as well.   There have in fact been times where things have happened that were out of Wanda’s control and that was Agatha messing with her.  Agatha was the one who recast Pietro but he is still Pietro (I assume) so his loyalty might actually be with Wanda.   I also do think it is Agatha keeping Vision away.     Wanda was genuinely surprised confused and saddened that Vision wasn’t there and I think this was Agatha jerking him away because she knew he reached the edge of town and was going to confront Wanda so was biding her time for her own big “It was me....” reveal.   
 

 

This is basically what I'm thinking.  Wanda created the world and Agatha wants to know how.  Her theme song shows her arriving in color and magic-ing herself black and white, so while Wanda's powers don't affect Agatha, she's obviously curious to how they work.  When killing Sparky didn't prompt Wanda to use her powers, Agatha sent a mind-controlled Quicksilver (who I believe is the X-Men version who was either pulled in purposely by Agatha or accidentally by either Wanda or Billy) to Wanda's house to see if he could get info for her.  Not too sure about who was keeping Vision away.  I can see it being Wanda just because she knows Vision is aware of what's really going on and wants to avoid that conversation (also liked how the intro was all Wanda, with no Vision except for the title).  Can also see it being Agatha since she's been trying to cause strife between the two for awhile now.  

Still wondering who the FBI witness protection guy is.  Maybe the mailman, since the person could be in witness protection because they were going to "deliver" some vital piece of info?

 

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I think Wanda is creating the show and not Agatha All Along, because Agnes asked Wanda if she wanted to redo that scene. (Which Darcy could detect as a jump but couldn’t see the missing part)

Also, Darcy isn’t screaming out in pain, so either she’s just mentally flexible,  wasn’t involved with the initial trauma, or too much of trauma the way Vision’s colleague was. Or was it that Wanda expanding the hex didn’t involve Agatha?

Unrelated, I found the milk bottles amusing. Milk delivery is actually a thing where I live. And yes, it comes in glass bottles. 

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This show just continues to engage me week after week, and the way they're using TV tropes to frame what happens in each episode has been nothing short of brilliant. AND THE EPISODE TITLES, "Now in Color" for the first colored episode, "We Interrupt This Programming" for the episode we finally saw what going on outside of Westview, and now "Breaking the Fourth Wall" when they pull the curtain back and reveal Agatha's been behind it all.

  • Agatha was definitely waiting for Wanda to "break" so to speak. She was very blatantly manipulating her severe mental state all episode, and used it to lure her and the twins into whatever trap.
  • MONICA. RAMBEAU. That's it. That's the whole tweet. I was in awe of her willpower and tenacity. When she fought her way through the barrier in that stunning sequence, I felt like it was totally one of those hero defining moments ala Wonder Woman's "No Man's Land" scene from that movie.
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34 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

Also, Darcy isn’t screaming out in pain, so either she’s just mentally flexible,  wasn’t involved with the initial trauma, or too much of trauma the way Vision’s colleague was. Or was it that Wanda expanding the hex didn’t involve Agatha?

 

I think the difference between the 2 different wake-up reactions is that they have had very different experiences. Norm (or the guy who "plays" him) is just a dude who lives in Westview, NJ who is very concerned about his sick father (I think?) and all of a sudden is being puppet-ed around in another life, through different decades, and with someone's pain (I think Wanda) in his brain. Darcy is a scientist who understands the Hex (sort of) and knows that the border enveloped her a few hours ago. So when Vision wakes her, she knows exactly where she is and exactly what's going on. No mention about feeling the grief, though. I wish there was.

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Darcy also hasn't been under Wanda (Agatha's) influence for that long. The guy playing Norm has been under it since it started. And she did also know what was going on while she was under it. Hence her saying she kind of wanted to guest star but that it was awful. 

 

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After two viewings so far, my very tiny thoughts (all spec) -

  • Wanda was exhausted from expanding the Hex, so she just sort of lost the will to find Vision or do anything at all.
  • Agatha has been behind the scenes, and is definitely the 'SHE' that has been causing the town residents pain.
  • Darcy apparently didn't get snapped because she couldn't have gained all that knowledge and been called to the scene as an expert
  • I don't think the whole wide world knows what happened with the Avengers, but I can totally buy Thor drunk-dialing Jane to tell her what happened, and Jane telling Darcy all about it (that is, if Jane didn't get snapped. But then maybe Thor would have called Darcy looking for Jane? Hmm, that might make better fanfic...)
  • HOW DARE AGATHA KILL THAT PUPPY!
  • I definitely could sense hints of Modern Family, The Office, Happy Endings, Stranger Things, and Desperate Housewives, along with The Munsters in Agatha's theme, with a possible dash of The Addams Family.
  • Damn, this show is soooo good.
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22 minutes ago, saoirse said:

but I can totally buy Thor drunk-dialing Jane to tell her what happened, and Jane telling Darcy all about it (that is, if Jane didn't get snapped. But then maybe Thor would have called Darcy looking for Jane?

Good point. Thor probably was looking for Jane and found Darcy and drunkenly told her everything and that's how she knows. She probably knows more than Sword since she actually knows an Avenger. 

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40 minutes ago, saoirse said:

I don't think the whole wide world knows what happened with the Avengers, but I can totally buy Thor drunk-dialing Jane to tell her what happened, and Jane telling Darcy all about it (that is, if Jane didn't get snapped. But then maybe Thor would have called Darcy looking for Jane? Hmm, that might make better fanfic...)

I think people would have to be told what happened with the snap and then everyone coming back (whether they believe it or not is another story) at least on earth. The chaos of half of all life disappearing would be one thing but if no one was told why it would be so much worse.

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34 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Good point. Thor probably was looking for Jane and found Darcy and drunkenly told her everything and that's how she knows. She probably knows more than Sword since she actually knows an Avenger. 

And/or Darcy was one of the army of experts called in to help sort out just WTF happened and what happens next.  So, she got a full briefing (possibly via Wakandan video that recorded everything that went down).  Darcy's "Avenger-adjacent" so there's a reason she was on the list of people that SWORD called in on this.

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1 hour ago, saoirse said:

I definitely could sense hints of Modern Family, The Office, Happy Endings, Stranger Things, and Desperate Housewives, along with The Munsters in Agatha's theme, with a possible dash of The Addams Family.

Thanos definitely prefers The Addams Family over The Munsters. 

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Monica's superhero transformation was glorious.  When I saw her blue eyes, I basically squealed.  It wasn't just her going through the barrier, it was knowing the radiation could seriously harm her and going in anyway.  Ultimate hero move.  I can't wait to see what she does next.  

Loving Kathryn as Agatha.  Her evil cackling at the end was perfect.  You can tell she's enjoying this.  Her theme song cracked me up.  It actually sounded like Kathryn singing it!

Honestly, I thought poor Billy and Tommy were going to be in that basement lair, unconscious or hanging up by their thumbs, or something else horrifying.

I think the mailman/delivery guy is the beekeeper/SWORD agent.  Most of the people in Westview don't remember their past unless something jolts them, so he might not know who he is.

I think Wanda's funk is her depression over what happened to Vision.  Even if she warped his mind again, I don't thinks she wants to.  Each week we can see how the simulation becomes harder for Wanda to control, and now it's gone beyond the point of fixing it.  It's hard to have fun with the whole thing if Vision is self-aware.

The only downer was the Modern Family/Office setup.  I didn't like either of those shows, so the moment Vision started talking to the camera, I was over it.  

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Were you wondering who the interviewer was when you heard their voice? Here is the original clip, and the clip with the interviewer's voice pitched up one full tone. Guess who?

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18 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

I think the mailman/delivery guy is the beekeeper/SWORD agent.

Dennis the mailman appeared early in Episode 2... since "Beekeeper" showed up near the end of Episode 2 he cannot be Dennis. 

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2 hours ago, saoirse said:

Darcy apparently didn't get snapped because she couldn't have gained all that knowledge and been called to the scene as an expert
 

Kat Dennings confirmed that Darcy survived the Snap, so she spent her time wisely since her last movie appearance getting her doctorate and becoming a consultant type for SWORD. I hope she sticks around after this, she's a lot of fun as a character.

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For comparison

6 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

I liked that the “broadcast” is now offline, given that this sitcom format basically exists after the end of analog TV.  SWORD needed to hook up a digital adapter if they wanted to catch this episode...

Not much else to say, other than this show is fantastic, and I can’t wait for next week.

I think it's quite funny if SWORD has been foiled simply by not realizing they need a digital antenna and television to keep watching

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2 hours ago, saoirse said:

After two viewings so far, my very tiny thoughts (all spec) -

  • Wanda was exhausted from expanding the Hex, so she just sort of lost the will to find Vision or do anything at all.
  • ....
  • Darcy apparently didn't get snapped because she couldn't have gained all that knowledge and been called to the scene as an expert
  • I don't think the whole wide world knows what happened with the Avengers, but I can totally buy Thor drunk-dialing Jane to tell her what happened, and Jane telling Darcy all about it (that is, if Jane didn't get snapped. But then maybe Thor would have called Darcy looking for Jane? Hmm, that might make better fanfic...)

I think it's less physical exhaustion and more depression about her alienation from Vision. She did all this to try and make a perfect world for him, and he almost killed himself trying to escape it, and isn't coming back to her of his own volition (as far as she knows).

I think that Darcy could have been snapped. The last time we saw her was in 2013 in Thor: The Dark World. At that point, she was up the hierarchy enough to have her own intern. In the real world, one can earn an astrophysics doctorate in five to eight years, so getting one by the time the Snap happens in 2018 is certainly a possibility. I also felt like Hayward was including her in the "you people" who didn't experience the aftermath of the Snap along with Monica. 

I'd think the whole world would probably have some level of access to the broad strokes of what happened with the Avengers. In addition to the suits that presumably had some recording capabilities (Tony's, Rhodey's, Pepper''s and Peter's) I would think that there would be some sort of high-level briefing about what happened, and some of that would filter down to a public briefing. 

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4 hours ago, Cerulean said:

Also, Darcy isn’t screaming out in pain, so either she’s just mentally flexible,  wasn’t involved with the initial trauma, or too much of trauma the way Vision’s colleague was.

It's duration, purpose, and knowledge. 

First, Darcy has been under only for a few hours at most. I think we are safe in assuming the longer it goes on, the worse it is. 

And it's at least suggested she was set up just to wait for Vision as part of her intended purpose. Vision The Theoretical Clown was paired with her by the in-Universe plot, after all. 

So her purpose in both cases aligned. Her inner being had no reason to fight it.

Finally, she had something nobody else had. Knowledge. She knew what was going on. Norm panicked because he didn't have that. He was deeply confused, as well as recovering from days of pain. The result?  Panic on coming out of it. 

Darcy came out of it knowing exactly what had happened. No panic. 

1 hour ago, tkc said:

Were you wondering who the interviewer was when you heard their voice? Here is the original clip, and the clip with the interviewer's voice pitched up one full tone. Guess who?

I appreciate the extra proof, but "Agatha All Along" basically told us the same thing. 

 

By the way, can we all appreciate that it's definitely Kathryn Hahn singing the female part of Agatha All Along?  I hope she got paid extra for that... 

 

Edited by Kromm
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1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think it's less physical exhaustion and more depression about her alienation from Vision. She did all this to try and make a perfect world for him, and he almost killed himself trying to escape it, and isn't coming back to her of his own volition (as far as she knows).

I think that Darcy could have been snapped. The last time we saw her was in 2013 in Thor: The Dark World. At that point, she was up the hierarchy enough to have her own intern. In the real world, one can earn an astrophysics doctorate in five to eight years, so getting one by the time the Snap happens in 2018 is certainly a possibility. I also felt like Hayward was including her in the "you people" who didn't experience the aftermath of the Snap along with Monica. 

I'd think the whole world would probably have some level of access to the broad strokes of what happened with the Avengers. In addition to the suits that presumably had some recording capabilities (Tony's, Rhodey's, Pepper''s and Peter's) I would think that there would be some sort of high-level briefing about what happened, and some of that would filter down to a public briefing. 

I don't truthfully care about how people know about all this. But, I brought it up because it did make think. Really, who is telling all this? Everyone that could have seen what happened with Vision were knocked out except for Wanda, Vision and Thanos. There is no feasible answer why certain people know these minute details. It doesn't really matter. But, Vision and Thanos were dead and I'm highly sure Wanda never did any debriefing. I could be wrong about the last part but I don't see her wanting to recall all that to agents.

I kind of wish Infinity War was more like stuff a legend. Not to say that it isn't. I just mean it would be fun to here people getting the actual story wrong because only those involved truly no what went down. Maybe we will see more of that as time goes on. Darcy has access to more than the common person. 

But, it is interesting. She must have talked to someone in order to be put in this position. 

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On 2/20/2021 at 3:24 AM, Racj82 said:

I don't truthfully care about how people know about all this. But, I brought it up because it did make think. Really, who is telling all this? Everyone that could have seen what happened with Vision were knocked out except for Wanda, Vision and Thanos. There is no feasible answer why certain people know these minute details. It doesn't really matter. But, Vision and Thanos were dead and I'm highly sure Wanda never did any debriefing. I could be wrong about the last part but I don't see her wanting to recall all that to agents.

Maybe things are being conflated a bit? Because Wanda dusted along with the other victims of the Snap in Infinity War, and so she wouldn't have been around for any debriefing. I rewatched some of the final scenes on youtube for the sake of research*, and Thor was up close and personal with Thanos right before he snapped his fingers. "You should have gone for the head." After he opens a portal and disappears into it, Steve stumbles into the scene and asks where he went, which is when the mass dustings start with Bucky as the first visible victim. When it flips back from Titan to Wakanda, Steve is sitting where Wanda used to be next to Vision's body, and Nat, Bruce and Rhodey are there too. They were incapacitated for the last of the fight, trying to keep Thanos away from Wanda and Vision, but after he vanished the magic that was holding them prisoner went with him, I guess.

I mean, you're right, it doesn't really matter, but at the least Steve and Co. saw Vision with the Mind Stone gone. Thor actually saw Thanos do the Snap, which he couldn't have done without all six stones, and given the way he fell apart in the aftermath a random drunk dial isn't out of the question. I wouldn't count Darcy out for just hacking into some government database on her own, though.

*Read: Insomnia

Edited by Cobalt Stargazer
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6 hours ago, Amethyst said:

It actually sounded like Kathryn singing it!

It was her. 

I would think a place like Wakanda has camera everywhere so they could've recorded most of what happened. Thor was right there for the snap so he knows what happened. 

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6 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

It was her. 

I would think a place like Wakanda has camera everywhere so they could've recorded most of what happened. Thor was right there for the snap so he knows what happened. 

Wakanda seems to be about 25 - 50 years ahead of the rest of the world technologically speak.  Figure there were holo-drones or whatever recording every part of the the Thanos battle and that video was shared with other governments - including people like Darcy.

Or, y'know, Jane did some cosmic experiment which knocked Darcy into our dimension where she watched Endgame and then came back and told everybody else.

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I'm wondering if the TV broadcasts was Wanda's way of trying to get help to Westview. She's somewhat in control but also apparenrly manipulated and maybe even a bit brainwashed by Agatha, so maybe it was a subtle way for her to try to get help from the outside world. Also wonder if the barrier being her doing was to try to keep the rest of the world safe from whatever is going on in Westview with Agatha and any other big bads. I'm guessing that Agatha is the "she" Norm referred to in his head. I could see Agatha manipulating Wanda into creating something, and Wanda was the one who created the concept of the sitcom format (possibly subconsciously at first, then with more intent as she realized/remembered she had control). I think we're going to get a Wanda who is half victim, half oppressor when the full story is known. 

I'm anxious for the next episode! And then to do a rewatch when it's all over. 

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General spec is fine in the episode topic, but if you're going to speculate based on the comics, please consider taking it to the MU/MCU topic or spoiler tagging it in here. Posts with comic-based spec may be removed. Thank you.

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