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S01.E07: Breaking the Fourth Wall


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General spec is fine in the episode topic, but if you're going to speculate based on the comics, please consider taking it to the MU/MCU topic or spoiler tagging it in here. Posts with comic-based spec may be removed. Thank you.

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4 hours ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

I just downloaded it off of the Zedge app.  🙂

Well then, let me download Zedge lol.

This fucking show, man. I think I said that last week.

If Elizabeth Olsen doesn't get an Emmy nom it will be a true travesty. I would like a couple other actors and the show itself to as well, but EO is just beyond. 

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I get that those inside the hex are unable to escape their television show counterparts unless they are "zapped" by Vision (Norm and Darcy). Yet when Monica was inside the hex (the first time) she was able to recall Pietro getting killed by Ultron?  Does this happen to have anything to do with Monica in particular (her cells being generated, thus setting up a future storyline). I just don't see all of the Westview residents being prone to superpowers when they presumably leave the hex.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

If Elizabeth Olsen doesn't get an Emmy nom it will be a true travesty. I would like a couple other actors and the show itself to as well, but EO is just beyond. 

Isn't she? I first saw her in Martha Marcy May Marlene in 2011 without any idea that she was one of 'the' Olsen sisters, but she's so damn good that I'm always surprised she's got less than thirty IMDB credits. Wanda's a pretty polarizing character judging by the amount of talk there is about her when she's been fairly low-tier in the franchise before this, since this is the first time she's been front and center, and I'm not sure another actress could quite walk the line between her heroism, the inherent fragility/instability of someone who's been through as much as she has, and the times like now when she's almost the bad guy. She's fantastic.

Edited by Cobalt Stargazer
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Like I've said before, I haven't read the comics but I'm enjoying the show. I watch shows that recap this so I'm learning a little about some of the characters.

I can't wait to find out what happened to the boys and if they remained the same age or if they will age themselves up.

Can't wait for Vision, Darcy and Monica to get/work together.

I wonder why Wanda keeps changing the decades or is she?

 

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I'm with the people who assume Darcy keeps in contact with Jane, Erik, and Thor and either heard about the events at the end of IW directly from Thor or from one of the other two. (We don't know how amicable the breakup between Jane and Thor was, but it makes sense that his friends would have been checking in on him during the five years).

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OK, I am so dense that I didn't notice, during Agatha's song, that the aspect ratio changes at the beginning and widens when we get to the 80s era.  Agatha's so genre savvy that she can manipulate the screen to suit her style.

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I’m just along for the ride and don’t think too much into the hows, whys of things that require breaking everything down to figure out what this or that means. 

That said, Hayward is a douchtastic asshole and is from the same vein as Ross-the asshole General who by some WTFUCKERY became SoS in the movies.

I’ve never liked Agnes; she’s rubbed me the wrong way since she first showed up like Gladys Kravitz, so not surprised or shocked that  she is behind it all, and like others, that song will be stuck in my head until Friday!😂😂

Elizabeth Olsen CLEARLY is the only sister with any talent in that family.

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20 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Who is the chatty Kathy telling people all these things that only the avengers experienced like how Vision died?

The Mark Ruffalo and Tom Holland jokes write themselves! 😛

20 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

Still wondering who the FBI witness protection guy is.  Maybe the mailman, since the person could be in witness protection because they were going to "deliver" some vital piece of info?

 

I keep forgetting about that. I hope we do get an answer, but it does seem like it's been dropped by the writers. Even Jimmy doesn't seem concerned at all by that now.

17 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

Is Agatha's house supposed to be reminiscent of the house from Charmed?  The dark wood and way it was decorated reminded me a lot of it and it would make sense, what with Agatha being a witch and all.

Can't speak to Charmed, but it sure does look like the front of the Bewitched house when Monica approaches it. 

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Okay, that reveal and the "Agatha All Along" intro sequence was my favorite television moment in years. Bear in mind, it beat out competition such as Miriam Margolyes' £13 million drug bust story on The Graham Norton Show, naked Henry Cavill taking a bath on The Witcher, and Captain Holt and Jeffords dancing to "Push It" on Brooklyn Nine-Nine!

On 2/19/2021 at 4:02 AM, DanielMarvelfan said:
On 2/19/2021 at 4:02 AM, DanielMarvelfan said:

Btw, what was that book on Agnes' basement?

  Hide contents

Is that a reference to Mephisto or just the fact that shes a witch? 

 

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

What all was in that basement? I thought I saw skulls, some Stranger Things vines, doors with very hellish light shining out of them, some creepy animal head, and a book that looks suspiciously like the Necronomicon.

If it's a creepy, sinister book in a Marvel story odds are it's the Darkhold.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Darlin said:

I get that those inside the hex are unable to escape their television show counterparts unless they are "zapped" by Vision (Norm and Darcy). Yet when Monica was inside the hex (the first time) she was able to recall Pietro getting killed by Ultron?  Does this happen to have anything to do with Monica in particular (her cells being generated, thus setting up a future storyline). I just don't see all of the Westview residents being prone to superpowers when they presumably leave the hex.

 

 

It's unclear, but it could also be that since the person's true identity is there, just buried, the mention of Pietro triggered it. Monica might have been faking when she said she wasn't sure why she said that, but it's also possible some subconscious part of her blurted it out. I tend to lean towards that theory only because I think Monica the highly trained SWORD agent would be reasonably savvy enough to not randomly blurt out something that would upset Wanda; if she were in her right mind, I think Monica would have talked to her like she has since then, gently trying to break through by appealing to Wanda's deep-down goodness. 

Monica seemed as shocked as Wanda when that factoid popped out of her mouth, at least from what I remember. We'll see, I plan to re-watch the whole thing in one big binge after the final episode because I'm sure there's Easter eggs that will be more interesting once all is revealed. 

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I NEED a full length version of the “Agatha All Along” theme song released on iTunes!  Everything about it was perfect, it was clearly a nod to the Munsters.  In addition to Agatha being a witch, the music had the horns and beat very much like the Munsters and the writing was in the same style.

Loved that Monica got her powers.  I really hate that she had to give up the Captain Marvel name to Genis Vell but then when Carol Danvers took it there was no issue.  I guess Genis is gone, but why couldn’t Monica reclaim the name then?

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1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

Okay, that reveal and the "Agatha All Along" intro sequence was my favorite television moment in years. Bear in mind, it beat out competition such as Miriam Margolyes' £13 million drug bust story on The Graham Norton Show, naked Henry Cavill taking a bath on The Witcher, and Captain Holt and Jeffords dancing to "Push It" on Brooklyn Nine-Nine!

If it's a creepy, sinister book in a Marvel story odds are it's the Darkhold.

 

 

Watching the episode I was all, "It's that book, from Agents of SHIELD, the season with Ghost Rider and he ... had the book at the end. Wait, what happened to the book. And what the hell is it called again?" Then walking around putting away dinner I just blurted out Darkhold. And if Agatha has the Darkhold, bad shit is happening. (And I'm not a comics reader, I just remember it was a very big deal during that season of AoS.)

And damn, I still have that song in my head because it's amazing. Even though I wasn't necessarily surprised because of all the speculation, they did such a great job of the reveal with the theme song I am so happy. It's such a great way to treat an audience--knowing that they'd probably figure it out but making it worth it anyway.

The thing that really is sticking with me is that Wanda gave the kids to Agatha. She told the kids to go with Agnes, they weren't taken from her. That's can't be a good thing.

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If’s funny how many people complain about the credits being long and complete, but the credits did indeed show that Kathryn Kahn sang the theme song at the end of the episode. There’s gold in them thar hills, not to mention vibranium!

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2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Ross-the asshole General who by some WTFUCKERY became SoS in the movies.

I can easily see how Ross could become secretary of state. He is an old opportunistic military guy who probably has a ton of political and military connections and dirt on most of them. Depending on who is in charge, and considering that post New York and Sokovia there would be a lot of scared voters, he could easily get himself selected for that job and then confirmed.

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26 minutes ago, frenchtoast said:

The thing that really is sticking with me is that Wanda gave the kids to Agatha. She told the kids to go with Agnes, they weren't taken from her. That's can't be a good thing.

The twins are still alive... they are prisoners - possibly transported to an alternate universe. Agatha has no motive for killing them  

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8 hours ago, Darlin said:

I get that those inside the hex are unable to escape their television show counterparts unless they are "zapped" by Vision (Norm and Darcy). Yet when Monica was inside the hex (the first time) she was able to recall Pietro getting killed by Ultron?  Does this happen to have anything to do with Monica in particular (her cells being generated, thus setting up a future storyline). I just don't see all of the Westview residents being prone to superpowers when they presumably leave the hex.

 

 

We're all just guessing. But Monica has gone through the barrier three times, which puts her in a unique spot. For argument's sake, the several thousand people in Westview might not have gone through the Hex barrier originally. It could have just started at its original location. But even if they did go through it originally, it seems that it's the third time that is the charm (plus an act of will on Monica's part). There doesn't seem to be a likelihood that anyone else will go through the barrier three times at this point. One has to imagine that the Hex barrier will eventually be taken down before the public leaves it en masse.

In terms of how Monica remembered Ultron and Pietro, some theories

1. Monica's only relatively recently coming under the Westview spell left her more free than others to remember the real world.

2. Monica's having a strong will made her better able to resist Wanda's old witch mind tricks.

3. Wanda's recollection of Pietro resulted in a loosening of control and created the groundwork for Monica to remember

4. Monica's budding change from her initial trip through the barrier helped shield her.

5. It was Agatha! Naughty Agatha! It was Agatha ALL ALONG! Agatha didn't like Monica being there and potentially being a good influence on Wanda, but couldn't directly kick her out. So Agatha created the conditions where Wanda would kick Monica out.

At this point I like Theory 5 the best, but maybe that's just because it has a theme song that slaps. 🙂

 

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1 hour ago, frenchtoast said:

Watching the episode I was all, "It's that book, from Agents of SHIELD, the season with Ghost Rider and he ... had the book at the end. Wait, what happened to the book. And what the hell is it called again?" Then walking around putting away dinner I just blurted out Darkhold. And if Agatha has the Darkhold, bad shit is happening. (And I'm not a comics reader, I just remember it was a very big deal during that season of AoS.)

Oh, what it did in AoS was just a taste. If I'm right about its identity and they're tying it in with elements of Wanda's history in the source material

Spoiler

, the Mephisto speculation would fall considerably lower on the Bad Shit-o-Meter than what might actually be happening.

1 hour ago, frenchtoast said:

The thing that really is sticking with me is that Wanda gave the kids to Agatha. She told the kids to go with Agnes, they weren't taken from her. That's can't be a good thing.

Yeah, the whole situation might have been set up specifically to have Wanda hand her children over willingly, as Agatha could have stolen them away any of dozens of times before.

Edited by saoirse
spoiler tag added to spec based on comics
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A reminder, as per the red box that's above where you post - speculation based on the comics that do not have any role as of yet in the current MCU needs to be tagged. A number of posts have had tags added this episode, and going forward, posts may be removed.

Please PM me with questions and thanks for posting!

@saoirse

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2 youtube breakdowns that I watched today mentioned the following. The "Previously on WandaVision" voiceover that we hear starting in episode 2 is "Wanda" (not Elisabeth Olsen) and each episode she gets progressively less energetic/lively. Another sign that she is being drained (probably intentionally) by whatever is truly happening here. Genius!

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Quote

Can't speak to Charmed, but it sure does look like the front of the Bewitched house when Monica approaches it. 

 I read somewhere that it was the house from Bewitched. The exterior has changed a little over the years so it looks a little different. 

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2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

We're all just guessing. But Monica has gone through the barrier three times, which puts her in a unique spot. For argument's sake, the several thousand people in Westview might not have gone through the Hex barrier originally. It could have just started at its original location. But even if they did go through it originally, it seems that it's the third time that is the charm (plus an act of will on Monica's part).

Also Wanda strengthened the barrier after expanding it, so Monica went through two normal times and one supercharged A+ crazy time.

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4 hours ago, blackwing said:

I NEED a full length version of the “Agatha All Along” theme song released on iTunes!  Everything about it was perfect, it was clearly a nod to the Munsters.  In addition to Agatha being a witch, the music had the horns and beat very much like the Munsters and the writing was in the same style.

That song has taken up residence in my brain for the last day! It has to be an evil spell.

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59 minutes ago, Kate47 said:

Also Wanda strengthened the barrier after expanding it, so Monica went through two normal times and one supercharged A+ crazy time.

Also, Wanda teleported Monica as Geraldine from a spot backstage into the Cabinet of Mysteries. It's certainly possible to me that transport would also have affected her DNA. 

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4 hours ago, lovett1979 said:

2 youtube breakdowns that I watched today mentioned the following. The "Previously on WandaVision" voiceover that we hear starting in episode 2 is "Wanda" (not Elisabeth Olsen) and each episode she gets progressively less energetic/lively. Another sign that she is being drained (probably intentionally) by whatever is truly happening here. Genius!

I hadn’t noticed. But here’s a compilation of those lines and wow! 

 

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On 2/20/2021 at 4:44 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Elizabeth Olsen CLEARLY is the only sister with any talent in that family.

The acting on Full House was never going to impress anyone. Nor the acting in the Olsens dumb kiddie movies. 

But to be fair, Mary-Kate did at least a workable acting job on Weeds. 

On 2/20/2021 at 10:36 AM, peachmangosteen said:

I would like a couple other actors and the show itself to as well, but EO is just beyond. 

It occurs to me that Jac Schaeffer deserves an Emmy.  This has been about as tightly written as anything I've ever seen. 

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42 minutes ago, Kromm said:

It occurs to me that Jac Schaeffer deserves an Emmy.  This has been about as tightly written as anything I've ever seen. 

Jac Schaeffer deserves an Emmy just for actually making me give a shit about a marvel tv project. I watched every episode of Agents of Shield and all the Netflix shows but it has been a long time since I have been excited for a Marvel show to come out.

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Jac Schaeffer deserves canonization, because making me like Darcy Lewis is a bonafide miracle!

12 hours ago, swanpride said:

I wonder if by going through the barrier, Monica basically reshaped herself, because she always wanted to be a hero.

I think that's what's going on. It's not that everyone going through the barrier would get superpowers, it's that as it was remaking Monica she pushed through in an act of indomitable will, drawing inspiration from Carol Danvers. That's what the quotes from Captain Marvel they played during that sequence were about - Maria telling Carol she was the most powerful person she knew before ever getting superpowers, Carol telling her Maria was gifted with the toughest little girl in the world, and that she could do anything.

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I rewatched all 7 episodes again because why not, and it struck me that Agnes has been trying to get her hands on the twins from the start.  She was lurking around when they were being born and it was only Geraldine/Monica being there that probably stopped her from birthing the babies herself.   Then there was that really weird scene where she tried to hold them when they were babies but Vision broke scene  and wouldn’t let her.    She was there at least once when the twins aged up and the intent of killing Sparky could have been to have them age up again.   Then this episode where Wanda just hands the twins right over to her and suddenly they vanish.   This could be as much about their powers as Wandas.    

Edited by Chaos Theory
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32 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So when the town chanting “For the Children” way back when the show was in black and white

That was the second episode. Andin the first, Mrs Hart asked why the couple didn't have children already.

It's all been to get the twins!!!!

Maybe. Probably.

Edited by arc
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I think the broadcasts are Wanda's subconscious reaching out for aid. She knows she's in a bad way and everything she's doing is literally hurting herself and hurting others. However the situation is being manipulated by Agatha/Agnes for her own ends (and whatever other villains are lurking in the wings), this is still Wanda's show -- again, literally! -- and on some level, she knows it's unsustainable.  The broadcasts are her cry for help. Monica gets that, and that's why she's so adamant that Wanda is a victim who needs help, not a villain who needs to be destroyed. 

As to whether Vision's pre-Westview memories were destroyed by death, or are being repressed (by Wanda? by Agatha?), I think that question is still open. I think it's the former, i.e., a "natural" result of his death and resurrection, but never having personally revived a vibranium synthezoid, it's just speculation on my part.

I haven't read Marvel comics regularly since the 1980s (yes, I'm old!) but my vague memories of Agatha Harkness was that she was a good witch! Of course, the architects of the MCU may have different ideas, or she could be manipulated by someone else, too.

I remember seeing the pre-airing commercials for WandaVision and thinking it didn't make any sense and I doubted I would even watch it. Now I wait the week between episodes with bated breath and it's one of the viewing highlights of our week! 

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Ok, so this goes back to a previous episode, but how certain are we that the Wanda that exited the Hex and threatened Hayward was actually Wanda? Could that have been Agatha too? She changed her clothing in the first episode, is it much of a leap to think she may have gone out to threaten Hayward and Sword on her own? The disappearing/reappearing accent from Wanda is kind of bugging me. Like it was what Hayward and the others expected Wanda to sound like, based on previous recordings of her, but not what she's sounded like in the Hex (or before/during the events of Infinity War either).

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1 hour ago, kris4n6 said:

Ok, so this goes back to a previous episode, but how certain are we that the Wanda that exited the Hex and threatened Hayward was actually Wanda? Could that have been Agatha too? She changed her clothing in the first episode, is it much of a leap to think she may have gone out to threaten Hayward and Sword on her own? The disappearing/reappearing accent from Wanda is kind of bugging me. Like it was what Hayward and the others expected Wanda to sound like, based on previous recordings of her, but not what she's sounded like in the Hex (or before/during the events of Infinity War either).

In my opinion, that was Wanda, because she was dragging the drone along behind her. "Is this yours?!" The SWORD people were watching her on a monitor when Hayward gave the order to fire, and it was only a minute or so later when there was a disturbance behind the Hex and she walked out of it. She also expressed surprise that Monica was still there, having booted her out not that long ago, and Agatha wasn't there when that happened.

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So much awesome stuff happened in this episode, I can hardly wrap my mind around it! Monica becoming Spectrum! Darcy and Vision team-up! Wanda is breaking down! Agnes/Agatha's big reveal! The time between fridays keeps growing longer!

I also agree that it really was Wanda dragging that drone out. She snapped. She broke into the SWORD facility and took Vision's body. She blasted Monica out of the Hex (although Monica later says that the only reason she didn't die was because Wanda shielded her from most of the damage of busting through walls and stuff), and she threw "Pietro/Peter" (last episode) and Monica (this episode) around with her powers. She knows she's all but holding an entire town hostage. She's stopped short of physical damage and killing, which Monica all but dared her to do this episode and Wanda showed her true colors by backing off, but she's a woman not just on the edge but over it, just fortunately not past the point of no return.

With regards to what Agatha's book is, I don't think it's the Darkhold, which looked different (it kind of had "Darkhold" written on the cover in fancy two-sided script), and when Feige was promoted as the head honcho of the MCU, he declared that "Agents of Shield" wasn't in the MCU canon anymore (along with all the other network TV Marvel shows, e.g. Agent Carter, The Inhumans, The Gifted, etc.). Only the Disney+ shows ("WandaVision" and the upcoming "Falcon and the Winter Soldier") are MCU canon now. Anyway, the book is more likely the tome missing from the Old One's library in the "Masters Only" section, from the "Doctor Strange" movie. It has the same aesthetic as the other books in the library, and it would tie Agatha and her powers to the "Mystic Arts/Sorcerer Supreme" side of things. The book is also glowing with the orange light like the magic Strange uses has. Although Agatha herself uses a dark purple sort of magic, maybe almost like the Power Infinity Stone...?

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56 minutes ago, jaigurudeva said:

when Feige was promoted as the head honcho of the MCU, he declared that "Agents of Shield" wasn't in the MCU canon anymore

That's why this book could be the Darkhold: how it looked in AOS is now not MCU canon.

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On 2/21/2021 at 12:10 PM, paigow said:

The twins are still alive... they are prisoners - possibly transported to an alternate universe. Agatha has no motive for killing them

They better be. Because I really want a Young Avengers movie. The MCU can't tease me with Billy and Tommy and then make them disappear with a hand wave that they never truly existed.

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10 hours ago, kris4n6 said:

Ok, so this goes back to a previous episode, but how certain are we that the Wanda that exited the Hex and threatened Hayward was actually Wanda?

Why wouldn't it be? Why complicate things to make it not her? 

Her treatment of Monica in their last encounter, while in line with Episode 3 and 4, is also very in line with their encounter outside, in Episode 5.  "All you do is lie" doesn't really sound like it's about one instance, Does it?  Plus, we saw Wanda face the drone. Do we want to theorize her just leaving it on her front lawn for Agnes to find? 

2 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

They better be. Because I really want a Young Avengers movie. The MCU can't tease me with Billy and Tommy and then make them disappear with a hand wave that they never truly existed.

But that's exactly how it happened over in the comics thread... (meaning I won't really debate it here, but we can go into detail there...) 

Edited by Kromm
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On 2/19/2021 at 12:45 PM, notagain said:

I definitely knew it was Agatha when Tommy described her has “empty“. A short description of psychopaths

At the time I was thinking he thought it was quiet because he was not hearing all of the turmoil in his mother's head, but yes, obviously this.

I like many of others watched the Agatha team multiple times (loved the Munsters theme as a kid as well).

Who would have thought Lily from Crossing Jordan would have had such a good career.  Not that she was a bad actress on the show, but the character really annoyed me towards the end.

I am thinking the scene with her faking out Vision at the edge of town the previous week was mainly to fake out the audience.  With what happened with Sparky and how she seemed not to notice the things around her I was starting to suspect something might be up with her, but I dropped that thinking with the Halloween scene in the car.

I am now rewatching Age of Ultron, because I do not remember much of it and the twins.  I might finally watch Captain Marvel as well.

 

[sorry if I am duplicating previous statements - read through the thread quickly.]

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I was an Olsen twin fan when I was a little kid, and I still remember Elizabeth Olsen doing cameo appearances in Mary-Kate and Ashley's direct to video movies back when she was just their annoying little sister Lizzie and not an obvious superstar. She is really doing such amazing work in this series, going from wacky comedy to serious drama and back again, and even in different styles of comedy, she is just so great. Its too bad that shows like this don't often get a lot of award love, or she would be a strong contender for a Best Actress Emmy. 

So on my millionth viewing, I noticed...

The strongman Darcy punched is the same guy who cuffed her to the car and left her when the Hex engulphed SWORD. 

When Wanda goes into the basement, the screen goes back to "normal" showing that Agatha's basement is in the real world and outside of the Hex. 

The mailman has a rabbit on his hat and Presto on his uniform. Is he Mr. Scratchy in human form? 

The basement is full of creepy stuff, most obviously a creepy magic book, but also what looks like a skeletal pelican. The pelican that Wanda added to the boys room? 

Wanda pops a few pills in the kitchen, Nexus pills perhaps? 

The first post-credits scene in the show was this week, the one with the late 00s/10s sitcom theme. Post-credit scenes really became a big thing in this era, mostly thanks to the MCU itself. This is also probably the end of the sitcom format now that Wanda knows whats up, making this finally a part of the MCU and not the false sitcom world, so its only now that we get the MCU post-credit scene. 

Agatha All Along is still suck in my head, truly a powerful and devious magical spell. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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