S06.E02: Oh, Christmas Tre

[StatisticalOutlier]

I'm sorry … you heard incorrectly.  The college she got accepted to was SALVE REGINA … a Catholic school in Newport, R.I.

 

Aah, the ONE time I'm not watching the captions.  I, and my alter ego Roseanne Roseannadanna, thank you.

 

Actually, that could explain Dina's sister's reaction--what's a salve regina?  Knowing these clowns, it's likely she thought it was some sort of vulgar term, and thought Lexi is too young to need to be getting it worked on.

[DrSparkles]

The accents on these new people make me want to cut off my ears!

[Higgins]

I heard Southern Virginia too but Salve Regina makes much more sense.

[bref]

The closed captions also said Southern Virginia!

[RubberDuckie]

That is exactly what it looks like.

Is Franklin Lakes more prestigious than Montville?

Absolutely. Franklin Lakes is upper middle class+. I know this because I grew up in a neighboring town (right across the lake). Every time we saw a Lamborghini or Ferrari on our street, we knew the car was headed to Franklin Lakes. The homes we see on the show aren't even the "nice" ones. Those are hidden behind gates.

[swankie]

Maybe being taken care of by someone else while Mommy and Daddy are "away at college" (how effing stupid is this crap about making up happy things to call incarceration??) would be good for them in the long run.  Living a real life with normal people in a normal home, and by that I mean family members who are not on a TV show, can't hurt them any worse than living with their idiotic parents already has.

 

 

If the kids will be taken care of by the maternal grandparents, they might turn out as messed up as Theresa is.  I'm betting that the reason she acts so entitled is because she was just as much a spoiled little brat as her kids are.  Joe Gorga is no prize either.  I'm not one to think that parents are 100 percent responsible for how their kids turn out, but they have the majority of input in that area.  Those kids may be doomed no matter what family member takes them just from their exposure on the show.  Their parents can call it "college" or "camp" all they want.  Someone at school is going to ask them how their parents like it in "jail".  I really feel for them.

[mrs ra]

The way she said the name of the college I thought I heard SOUTHern and I thought: gee she doesn't know how to pronounce It like SUTHern.

[lilmarysunshine]

If the kids will be taken care of by the maternal grandparents, they might turn out as messed up as Theresa is.  I'm betting that the reason she acts so entitled is because she was just as much a spoiled little brat as her kids are.  Joe Gorga is no prize either.  I'm not one to think that parents are 100 percent responsible for how their kids turn out, but they have the majority of input in that area.  Those kids may be doomed no matter what family member takes them just from their exposure on the show.  Their parents can call it "college" or "camp" all they want.  Someone at school is going to ask them how their parents like it in "jail".  I really feel for them.

Yep. And we already see how entitled Melissa's kids are.

[stcroix]

In the last scene where the girls are all in bed together and have the poor puppy Gia looks like she's on the verge of tears in one shot.  You can tell it's edited and was several takes.  In one the girls are arguing over who gets to hold the puppy, in one take Gia is on her side not facing the others, then they are all on their backs listening to Joe tell them what a great family they are and how they need to stick together (the 4 girls).  I watched Gia closely and she's the only one who 'got' what he was saying.  Her expression was of pure dread and her big blue eyes looked back and forth between her two parents.  I actually backed it up and slowmoed it and wish I hadn't.  Heartbreaking to see the realization in her eyes and the sadness/anguish/expectation of loss of her parents...  At her age I'm sure it was as scary as learning your parent had cancer and may not make it.  I absolutely think Joe and Teresa are heartless for allowing cameras in that bedroom knowing how terrible Gia was feeling.  Unbelievable, yet with the parenting skills we've seen from these two, believable.  I wonder how Gia will turn out from all this?  She's smart, so let's hope she gets therapy and rises above it all.  Some kids totally rebel and I know this must be from a feeling of abandonment.  There were Teresa and Joe acting like everything was normal--- and Gia's eyes following their faces with such a knowing look, just terribly sad to know she was filmed at this moment.

 

Stewedsquash--- it was worse than if she'd cried in my opinion :(

Edited July 22, 2014 by stcroix

[lilmarysunshine]

Actually, none of the RHONJ kids seem all that smart to me. Maybe I'm not objective because I know the people from which they all sprung and Juicy Joe/Tre DNA doesn't seem that impressive to me. Gia does seem to be smarter than her parents, however. I'll give her that!  I think what is often credited as "intuition" for her is probably a result of her going online and reading whatever she needs to read to know the truth about her family situation. If she starts referring to it as "going away to college," I'll have to take away the qualified props I gave her.

[Marigny]

 

Why is it that whenever Tre and Juicy talk about their situation, they both act like only Juicy is in danger of "going away"? I get that this part of the show was filmed before they pled guilty, but even before that time, they knew they were both charged with basically the same charges, except for the Tax ones.  When their family talks about it, they all mention the fear that they will both go away, but Tre and Juicy never do. 

 

I think that, at the time, they were under the impression that their plan for Juicy to say that it was all him and he forged her signature on those loans would work and Tre would be saved from prosecution/jail. I'm guessing that they had witnesses or video of her going to banks and the like, hence the guilty plea.

 

I truly believe that both Teresa and Joe believe that their "four beautiful daughters" are going to be Teresa's get out of jail free card.  I think they believe that Teresa will get house arrest/probation because they believe they can make the case that someone has to take care of the children.  Personally, I go back and forth between my disgust for Teresa and wanting to see her in prison, and wanting those children to have at least one parent at home with them to help them cope.  I guess at best, perhaps they stagger sentences so that Teresa can both go to prison and be there for the girls while Joe is "away".

As someone upthread pointed out, those kids won't do anything for them. A good example of this is the case with Jesse Jackson, Jr. Both he and his wife were convicted of federal charges and, IIRC, they will both serve time but not at the same time. I think he went in first and she'll go in after he is released since there was no one who was willing to take their kids.  

[mwell345]

 

As someone upthread pointed out, those kids won't do anything for them. A good example of this is the case with Jesse Jackson, Jr. Both he and his wife were convicted of federal charges and, IIRC, they will both serve time but not at the same time. I think he went in first and she'll go in after he is released since there was no one who was willing to take their kids.

 

And that's exactly what I think will happen with the Guidices.  Consecutive, not concurrent sentences.   I don't think a judge is going to take both parents out of a house at the same time when there are 4 young children.   I'm not downplaying the seriousness of what the Guidices did - but they are not a threat to society in the way we generally perceive.

 

It also makes sense from a restitution standpoint - Teresa probably has a better shot at earning $$ than Joe - if her publishers, etc. still want her.  No doubt Bravo will keep her on, and it could even result in a spin off. 

 

I also think there is a slight chance that she will escape jail time altogether  - there are women that will sign anything their husband put in front of them, especially is the husband is somewhat tempermental.  I don't think Teresa is the brightest bulb on the tree, although she is probably more savy about $$ now than she was back then.  I can see her in an office with Joe and whoever telling her to sign "it's no problem, everyone does it, it'll be fine, sign the thing, etc"

 

Not saying that's what happened, but I think that's how it will be presented.

[shoegal]

I also think there is a slight chance that she will escape jail time altogether  - there are women that will sign anything their husband put in front of them, especially is the husband is somewhat tempermental.  I don't think Teresa is the brightest bulb on the tree, although she is probably more savy about $$ now than she was back then.  I can see her in an office with Joe and whoever telling her to sign "it's no problem, everyone does it, it'll be fine, sign the thing, etc"

 

 

 

 

I am wondering, though, did she miss her chance to make this case when she took the guilty plea?   I don't know exactly what kind of case can be made at sentencing when you have already pled guilty to the charges, can you make the case of guilty but really not guilty? 

 

I have a gnawing feeling that she's going to get out of going to prison, she'll keep the marble mansion and Bravo will keep her on and she'll end up with a My Life Without Joe kind of spin off and she'll still be making bank, and I don't trust her to actually pay what she owes, either. 

 

I am interested to see what happens whey they discuss taking the plea and pleading guilty, because it seems cameras were around to film that part....I wonder what the excuse/explanation will be.  It's the only reason I'm still watching at this point.

[Higgins]

I think that, at the time, they were under the impression that their plan for Juicy to say that it was all him and he forged her signature on those loans would work and Tre would be saved from prosecution/jail. I'm guessing that they had witnesses or video of her going to banks and the like, hence the guilty plea.

 

As someone upthread pointed out, those kids won't do anything for them. A good example of this is the case with Jesse Jackson, Jr. Both he and his wife were convicted of federal charges and, IIRC, they will both serve time but not at the same time. I think he went in first and she'll go in after he is released since there was no one who was willing to take their kids.  

That all depends on the judge. I think it is entirely possible that Teresa avoids prison. There is a reason they pled guilty and I would assume they were offered a deal they felt was something they could live with.

[qtpye]

Teresa avoids prison. There is a reason they pled guilty and I would assume they were offered a deal they felt was something they could live with

 

.

 

Even though it would be infuriating, I would not be surprised if Teresa comes out of this smelling like a rose and does not really make any changes in her lavish lifestyle.  By the way, her lawyers, better get in line, because after the sentencing, they will be another creditor not getting paid.

 

Anyone think it is hilarious (in an awful way) that 60K went into drapes, but not a dime of that went into the phantom college fund Teresa was so lamenting.

 

Now that Melissa is back in Monteville will she again claim that she could not trust her kids in the same school system as Teresa's children or will she admit the true financial reasons about them not having their house built?  I think everyone was implying something about the Gorgias moving so much...the astute poster above who called Joe Go a money mover was probably on to something.

[shoegal]

Anyone think it is hilarious (in an awful way) that 60K went into drapes, but not a dime of that went into the phantom college fund Teresa was so lamenting.

 

 

I think it's hilarious because I don't see any of her kids going to college (unless Milania "goes away to college" just like dear old dad). Teresa is so full of shit, she just said 'college fund' because she thinks that is a respectable thing to say that will earn her sympathy.  She didn't give a shit about college when she shelled out thousands of dollars for an enormous closet full hideously ruffled matching outfits, Ugg boots, Juicy Couture purses (I will never, ever forget Teresa in the middle of a massive kids closet, throwing kids accessories around looking for the correct purse for her 5 year old kid to carry to their cousins christening).  Teresa is pissed that she can't spend her money on more tacky clothes and designer handbags. 

[TattleTeeny]

I don't know how old she is, but her style is late teens/early 20s, aka, too young for her.  She and her hats need to get a clue.  She and Tamballs Barney Judge need to understand that dressing younger doesn't make you look younger, just desperate.

 

What are women in their 40s supposed to wear (anything we want; that's part of the beauty of being an adult)? She dresses pretty normal as far as I can see--definitely not my style (too froofy and...deliberate, for lack of a better word), but certainly perfectly appropriate for a woman even at her ripe old age. If I saw a 20-year-old wearing Dina clothes, I'd probably wonder why she was looking so matronly. But mileage varies, of course--I'm in my 40s too, and it's all vintage micros and maxis over here (when I'm not in jeans and band T-shirts). 

I'm not a big meat eater but that huge-ass dinner hosted by one of the twins looked good.

 

I'm assuming (hoping) that those Christmas morning scenes were recreated or filmed earlier.  I would feel very sorry if the crew members had to miss Christmas with their own families to film these women!  I bet Tre's real Christmas was when the big ticket items came out.

 

Well, for any number of reasons, not everyone puts that much stock in holidays and sentimentality and stuff--and not everyone even celebrates Christmas to begin with.

 

I'm glad to see that others are disturbed by Dina's "Namaste, B******." There is spiritual significance to this word, so why not bark up with, "Assaalamu Aliekum, MF'ers!" or "God bless you, A**holes!"? Classless imbecile. Additionally, it just seems so lame.

 

I am not ashamed to admit I'm not bothered by anyone saying any of these things. In fact, I would laugh so hard (and just did..and still am) at "God bless you, assholes!" Haha!

Edited July 22, 2014 by TattleTeeny

[lezlers]

I am wondering, though, did she miss her chance to make this case when she took the guilty plea?   I don't know exactly what kind of case can be made at sentencing when you have already pled guilty to the charges, can you make the case of guilty but really not guilty? 

 

I have a gnawing feeling that she's going to get out of going to prison, she'll keep the marble mansion and Bravo will keep her on and she'll end up with a My Life Without Joe kind of spin off and she'll still be making bank, and I don't trust her to actually pay what she owes, either. 

 

I am interested to see what happens whey they discuss taking the plea and pleading guilty, because it seems cameras were around to film that part....I wonder what the excuse/explanation will be.  It's the only reason I'm still watching at this point.

 

Whenever someone is convicted of a crime, especially a felony, they have an opportunity to present factors in mitigation.  The fact that she was likely too dumb and/or weak to do anything but what her husband told her to do isn't saying she's not guilty, but it is a factor in mitigation.  Factors in mitigation are used to argue for lesser sentences and/or probation.  From what I've read, Teresa entered into the plea agreement without a strong inclination that she would be receiving probation.  I, for one, would be shocked if she actually got prison time.  I'd bet a good amount of money she'll skate with probation. 

[TattleTeeny]

I guess it amused me a little that Joe basically thanked Teresa for being able to keep on acting like everything is fine instead of breaking down crying every day like other women would do, making him feel bad when he comes home.  Oh, you mean normal women with properly functioning brain cells and emotions?

 

Not all women cry and panic in the face of adversity and/or justifiable comeuppance. I don't tend to. Seeing one hour (minus commercials) once a week, culled from a few hours of filming over the course of just a couple of months really doesn't prove that this woman never succumbed to a freakout. Either way, she did say she cries about it. I mean, who really cares anyway? Whether she's straight up in denial or just trying to keep things as fun as possible for her family before shit gets real, it's not hurting anyone.

Edited July 22, 2014 by TattleTeeny

[MMLEsq]

...By the way, her lawyers, better get in line, because after the sentencing, they will be another creditor not getting paid.

I've got to believe that her attorneys required a sizeable retainer before they would begin representing T&J -- one that needs to be replenished to the extent they go through it before the representation is completed. 

[shoegal]

Whenever someone is convicted of a crime, especially a felony, they have an opportunity to present factors in mitigation.  The fact that she was likely too dumb and/or weak to do anything but what her husband told her to do isn't saying she's not guilty, but it is a factor in mitigation.  Factors in mitigation are used to argue for lesser sentences and/or probation.  From what I've read, Teresa entered into the plea agreement without a strong inclination that she would be receiving probation.  I, for one, would be shocked if she actually got prison time.  I'd bet a good amount of money she'll skate with probation. 

 

Thanks, I am aware of mitigating/aggravating factors, I just thought that those were typically something that are presented as part of the trial.  I am just not sure how they fit into a plea deal, will there be a hearing?  What kind of evidence can they present?  How does that work?  Will Teresa & Joe testify?

[qtpye]

I've got to believe that her attorneys required a sizeable retainer before they would begin representing T&J -- one that needs to be replenished to the extent they go through it before the representation is completed.

 

 

This could be why she was so upset about the legal fees.  When you are used to skipping out on your bills it must hurt to actually have to compensate someone for services rendered.

[zoeysmom]

I've got to believe that her attorneys required a sizeable retainer before they would begin representing T&J -- one that needs to be replenished to the extent they go through it before the representation is completed. 

I often wondered if the plea agreement had more to do with the fact that the Giudices legal fees coffer was drained dry. They would not be the first defendant that could not fund a trial and took a plea instead.  I will be curious to see what happens with Joe Giudices state trial this week.  I had to laugh when Joe said something about going to trial and being proven not guilty.  Most people say acquitted or found innocent.  The Giudices legal issues are becoming less and less of a storyline. 

[Maharincess]

What are women in their 40s supposed to wear (anything we want; that's part of the beauty of being an adult)? She dresses pretty normal as far as I can see--definitely not my style (too froofy and...deliberate, for lack of a better word), but certainly perfectly appropriate for a woman even at her ripe old age. If I saw a 20-year-old wearing Dina clothes, I'd probably wonder why she was looking so matronly. But mileage varies, of course--I'm in my 40s too, and it's all vintage micros and maxis over here (when I'm not in jeans and band T-shirts).

I'm not a big meat eater but that huge-ass dinner hosted by one of the twins looked good.

Well, for any number of reasons, not everyone puts that much stock in holidays and sentimentality and stuff--and not everyone even celebrates Christmas to begin with.

I am not ashamed to admit I'm not bothered by anyone saying any of these things. In fact, I would laugh so hard (and just did..and still am) at "God bless you, assholes!" Haha!

Tattle Teeny, I could have written this entire comment,from the jeans and band tshirts, not eating a lot of meat to laughing at "god bless you assholes". Are you my twin?

My favorite tshirt says "thank god I'm an atheist".

It annoys the shit out of me the way Joe and Teresa talk as if their legal troubles are something that happened to them through no fault of their own. I can't stand Teresa but I would actually have some respect for her if just once she would admit she did something wrong.

In all of the seasons of this show, I've never heard her admit to a mistake. Nothing is ever her fault. If she's called out on something her standard reaction is the same one a 6 year old would give..."you do it too" or "you did it first".

I really hope she does time. Even if it's not a lot of time, I just really want her to have to wear used bras and underwear, sleep on a filthy one inch piece of foam and eat jail food. Maybe that will humble her a little and she'll realize what's really important in life.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Maharincess

[Irritable]

This thought upsets me, maybe because it could honestly happen, but I fear that if Teresa did actual time, she would come out and sell a million cookbooks about how she would make prison food better.  A recipe for "Tre's Famous NutriLoaf" with a picture of her smiling and holding it up while wearing a faux prison jumpsuit with the collar turned up and giant diamond earrings. "Tre's Prison Pie - so good you would never throw it at another inmate" with a picture of her smiling and holding a slice up on a velvet pillow next to a gold plastic spork.   For whatever reason, this woman actually does sell things with her name attached.  I don't understand it, but I am willing to accept that it is reality, and it will gross me out big time if she ends up being able to capitalize on all of this somehow.  Downsizing their lives and obtaining money through stable, reliable and consistent means is how to recover from all of this, not continuing to make $50K here and there, only to blow through it in a month on clothes, waxings, beauty services, vacations, etc. without knowing if or when another $50K is coming, and then still say "Those lawyer fees took away the college funds we never set aside in the first place for our daughters!  WAAAAAH!!!!".

[Marigny]

^ Hopefully she would get enough time that, when she finally got out, the reality tv viewing public will have forgotten about her. With this business, it's usually out of sight, out of mind. 

[chlban]

That all depends on the judge. I think it is entirely possible that Teresa avoids prison. There is a reason they pled guilty and I would assume they were offered a deal they felt was something they could live with.

I used to work with a guy that was charged with Wire Fraud by the US Government because, of course, that is a federal crime. What he really did was steal money that had been wired into his company to pay off loans on  various (innocent) people's mortgages. At any rate, he insisted he was innocent right up until the day he plead guilty. According to him, he was advised by his attorney that when there is significant evidence against you and you do not plead guilty you are basically assured a stiffer sentence than when you just go ahead and plead.  I assume this is the reason Joe and Theresa plead guilty. In the case of the scumbag I worked with, he did not tknow what his sentence would be when he entered his plea, only that, at least according to legal advice, it would be less severe than going to trial. 

 

This is tough to call. On the one hand courts often want to make examples of celebrities. I seriously doubt that a non celebrity accused of doing what Martha Stewart did would have ever seen one day of jail time. It just wasn't that serious. I think her celebrity worked against her( and no I am not a fan, just stating my honest opinion).  For that reason i think a judge will be reluctant to let Theresa off without at least some jail time.

 

I do think, however, that it is very likely they will serve time consecutively and I think it is a certainty that she will serve less time than he does. 

 

I only made it through half the episode, again, because I cannot stand listening to these two whine about what they have brought on themselves. I especially hate listening to it while they live in a mansion and are having what appears to be a very plentiful Christmas. 

 

The dog was the final straw for me last week. Not only does it, of course ,have to be a designer puppy WTF are they doing taking on a dog when they could well end up in prison with 4 kids to be looked after by relatives? Typical selfisth behavior by those two criminals.

 

There is not one person on this show that I actually like, but I hate Joe and Theresa. They are truly despicable people.   

Edited July 22, 2014 by chlban

[lezlers]

Thanks, I am aware of mitigating/aggravating factors, I just thought that those were typically something that are presented as part of the trial.  I am just not sure how they fit into a plea deal, will there be a hearing?  What kind of evidence can they present?  How does that work?  Will Teresa & Joe testify?

 

No, mitigating (and aggravating) factors are presented at sentencing, not trial (although they can be part of a person's defense depending on what they're charged with.) Typically, the defense attorney will file a statement in mitigation before sentencing, which the prosecution can respond to.  Now, I only practice in California, so I can only speak to the law here.  But there are specific factors in mitigation enumerated in the penal code that the defense can argue to get a lesser sentence (felonies in California are punished by a "triad" which is a low term, mid-term or aggravated term.)   For example, a Judge will sentence someone to the aggravated term if the circumstances in aggravation (also enumerated in the penal code) outweigh the circumstances in mitigation and vice versa.  There are also specific, enumerated factors the defense can argue in support of a person getting probation rather than a prison sentence.   It's all laid out in the penal code. 

 

These are all sentencing issues, not trial issues. 

[motorcitymom65]

 

I have a gnawing feeling that she's going to get out of going to prison, she'll keep the marble mansion and Bravo will keep her on and she'll end up with a My Life Without Joe kind of spin off and she'll still be making bank, and I don't trust her to actually pay what she owes, either. 

 

In other words, it will all end the exact way Caroline said it would way back in S3.

[amarante]

Federal sentencing uses a quasi-formula which takes into account the type of crime and criminal behavior which spits out a range.

 

Technically, aggravating factors can be presented in a trial but only insofar as they are part of the crime itself. For example, there are degrees to almost every crime - i.e. is it simple assault? assault with a deadly weapon? attempted murder? 

 

It is my understanding that the sentence is not determined when a defendant enters a guilty plea because as both sides are going to attempt to come up with their sentence recommendation (and the reasons for that) to present to the judge. Statistically, almost every Federal case ends with a guilty plea - and given the kind of evidence there was for the Giudices, I can't imagine their attorneys could actually advise they go to trial since there is a volume of paper documenting their fraud - there is nothing complicated about the kind of fraud they engaged in so it would be hard to imagine any jury finding reasonable doubt.

 

I do believe that Tre will serve some time in prison - and she will probably get a fairly light sentence and will be permitted to serve it prior to Joe's incarceration for a significantly longer period of time. I have no idea what Tre did or didn't know about the mortgage frauds and/or whether the Juicy's filed taxes because it is entirely conceivable to me that Joe put papers in front of her and told her to sign without Tre actually having full knowledge of what is going on.

 

However, she is absolutely guilty of the bankruptcy fraud since she was represented by counsel at that time who would have advised her repeatedly that she needed to be completely honest about what was stated in the petition and there is no way she didn't know about her separate bank accounts or the other egregious omissions and lies on the bankruptcy filing.

[LotusFlower]

I also think there is a slight chance that she will escape jail time altogether  - there are women that will sign anything their husband put in front of them, especially is the husband is somewhat tempermental.  I don't think Teresa is the brightest bulb on the tree, although she is probably more savy about $$ now than she was back then.  I can see her in an office with Joe and whoever telling her to sign "it's no problem, everyone does it, it'll be fine, sign the thing, etc".

I feel like this is kind of a sexist way of presenting it - will a judge buy it? And I also don't think it would work because signing the mortgage documents was not her only offense - I believe she also pled guilty to submitting fake W2 forms. Did she not know what she was doing then, as well?

I have a gnawing feeling that she's going to get out of going to prison, she'll keep the marble mansion and Bravo will keep her on and she'll end up with a My Life Without Joe kind of spin off and she'll still be making bank, and I don't trust her to actually pay what she owes, either. 

 

Now that she's pled guilty, I think that changes everything. A book or Bravo spin-off might have worked if she were in a mob wife type of situation, playing the part of a poor, put-upon wife who has to pick up the pieces after the husband "goes away." But she's now an admitted criminal herself, and I think Bravo underestimated how disgusted the public is towards this kind of fraud - all displayed on their network, which, in a way, makes them complicit. I think that's one of the reasons why the ratings have taken a nosedive. And to give her a spin-off, which of course means they're paying her handsomely, would again be rewarding behavior that the public finds so offensive. I think she's done.

[lottiedottie]

I'm just going to chime in here to say that Amber is an annoying twat. OMFG.I can't imagine having her as a mother/ Or as a friend. She would require more energy than I have to give.

 

I'm curious as to what the cosmetics bill is for these women. I've seen less make up on a drag queen.

[Gigi43]

Teresa did actual time, she would come out and sell a million cookbooks about how she would make prison food better.

This actually was just done by the hasbeen rapper Ja Rule. Really. He was even on some show promoting it a few months back. I'm pretty sure he was in for tax evasion no less. Of course that doesn't mean Teresa can't do it. Almost all cookbooks are like another one or more.

It looks like crime can pay in today's times unfortunately.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Gigi43

[LoLo]

Tre's scenes with the kids are getting redundant. All of a sudden it's "family is everything". I feel bad for the kids for not only what their parents have done but for now using them for sympathy. I would never allow my teenage daughter to be filmed going through something this traumatic. Teen years are rough enough, why add this to it. It's disgusting.

[LotusFlower]

This actually was just done by the hasbeen rapper Ja Rule. Really. He was even on some show promoting it a few months back. I'm pretty sure he was in for tax evasion no less. Of course that doesn't mean Teresa can't do it. Almost all cookbooks are like another one or more.

It looks like crime can pay in today's times unfortunately.

Except for a lot of rappers, doing time = street cred. That's not the case with Teresa. She's in deep denial, and her m.o. has always been to promote her fabulous life and her fabulous family, full of love, love, love. Notice they use euphemisms to describe prison cuz it's something they can't admit to. In contrast to Ja Rule, who was probably boasting about his stint.

[ghoulina]

Tre's scenes with the kids are getting redundant. All of a sudden it's "family is everything". I feel bad for the kids for not only what their parents have done but for now using them for sympathy. I would never allow my teenage daughter to be filmed going through something this traumatic. Teen years are rough enough, why add this to it. It's disgusting.

 

I agree. It's one thing to have a few cute snippets of the kids decorating the tree or Milania screaming about someone's butthole (although, I could do without that). But it's another matter when you're putting a child's real emotional trauma front and center. It makes me quite uncomfortable to see how emotional Gia is. It feels a bit too private. The adults can choose to blast their private lives all over tv, but the kids? Who advocates for them when their parents are ready to cash in on their pain?

[jaync]

The fact that she was likely too dumb and/or weak to do anything but what her husband told her to do isn't saying she's not guilty, but it is a factor in mitigation. 

But that's not a fact, it's just an assumption made by some without any real proof.

[WiCkedWitCh]

Yea, I was a pharmacy tech before I had kids and I saw so many of our customers who became addicted to painkillers after genuinely needing them for a serious accident or medical condition - so yea, it was very distasteful.

Eh, I didn't read too much into it.  I think she equated it to needing a strong drink.  Was it the most thoughtful, intelligent and reflective remark?  Probably not.  But I seriously doubt she set out to offend anyone.  If you don't have experience with addiction to prescription narcotics, you're really not going to look that deeply into it either as a viewer or as the person making the comment. However, I think if you don't like her then  you tend to look for stuff to take umbrage to.

 

I agree that she did not mean it in an offensive way. Honestly, I didn't even know Percocet was a pain killer, I thought it was more like an anti-anxiety medication. The only time I've really heard it was on Legally Blonde after Elle gets dumped and she's all sad and her friend says, "why don't you just take a Percocet or something." So I feel like Dina was using it in the same way and probably doesn't really know what it is either. Or if she does, she doesn't know it is serious. 

 

 

Anyways, I think it was 2 seasons ago that I became a Teresa supporter (I didn't really watch last season). The new women are boring and actually really make me want Danielle Staub back. Danielle brought the drama and was a freakin weirdo.

[Kitla]

I'm not worried about the dog.  When Tre and Joe "go away," Dina will adopt it.  It will be the only normal looking pet she has.

[Marigold]

I have been through a bankrutpcy and I can assure you, it was a normal sum of money and not some Giudice kinda money.

 

My attorney told us over and over and over about how we must be 110% completely honest on the paperwork or there would be big problems.  I even had to sign a paper attesting to the fact that my lawyer explained this to me etc. He himself didn't want any trouble. I guess it is common to lie on bankruptcy applications? I have no idea but seeing the Giudices lied on their paperwork and then they get caught and claim innocent or whatever their story is? They didn't know you can't lie on a bankruptcy application?  Really? hmmm...  

[LoLo]

Hmm....  we had a fake tree every year when I grew up, and somehow I escaped into adulthood untraumatized!   

 

So no, I don't think it's weird at all. 

I did too & it was beautiful with a horrible looking box. Once I moved out, I only bought real trees. It was fun going & picking them out & the best part was not having to take them apart & re-box them. But it didn't take away anything from my childhood. I have thought about getting a fake one this year as I'm tired of cleaning up the needles & my cats try to eat them.

[Jennifersdc]

Add me to the Teresa doing some jail time list. If it was just the mortgage fraud I think she could have gotten away with probation. Even though she was obviously a willing participant, Joe seems to be the mastermind of that scheme.

Her bankruptcy fraud charge though is all on her and I can't see her getting off on that. She knew she was lying about her current and future assets. Didn't she have some bullshit story about how Joe filed bankruptcy without her knowing? The infamous fake notary seal again? I think it was when she was being called on her ridiculous spending after or shortly before they filed. New Mercedes, Audriana's christening (Marie Antoinette sushi!) and screeching though Venice looking for Chanel (not even Italian and readily available in Jersey). Kudos to who mentioned "frontin". Let's not forget the tacky furniture and even tackier curtains.

Again not a lawyer, but I do know when you file for bankruptcy, you have to acknowledge that your lawyer explained everything to you (primarily about lying) and you attended credit counseling. No lawyer (even shady ones) is going to sign off if they didn't interview you personally and witnessed your signature (or at least an actual notary).

Edited July 24, 2014 by Jennifersdc

[motorcitymom65]

Add me to the Teresa doing some jail time list. If it was just the mortgage fraud I think she could have gotten away with probation. Even though she was obviously a willing participant, Joe seems to be the mastermind of that scheme.

Her bankruptcy fraud charge though is all on her and I can't see her getting off on that. She knew she was lying about her current and future assets. Didn't she have some bullshit story about how Joe filed bankruptcy without her knowing? The infamous fake notary seal again? I think it was when she was being called on her ridiculous spending after or shortly before they filed. New Mercedes, Audriana's christening (Marie Antoinette sushi!) and screeching though Venice looking for Chanel (not even Italian and readily available in Jersey). Kudos to who mentioned "frontin". Let's not forget the tacky furniture and even tackier curtains. 

Again not a lawyer, but I do know when you file for bankruptcy, you have to acknowledge that your lawyer explained everything to you (primarily about lying) and you attended credit counseling. No lawyer (even shady ones) is going to sign off if they didn't interview you personally and witnessed your signature (or at least an actual notary).

I know it is a popular theory that Joe was the mastermind, but I don't buy this, and have never seen any evidence to show this. As long as I have watched the show, Teresa was always the one who wanted nice things. She was the one running through the streets of Italy like a loon looking for Chanel. Juicy looked sick about this. She was the one who demanded a 10 year anniversary celebration that was extravagant, even though Juicy told her they could no longer afford such luxuries. I remember at the time Juicy talking to Chris about how he didn't know how he would afford a gift that she would find acceptable. Chris cautioned Juicy to just talk to Teresa and said that she would surely understand. Juicy was clear in that Teresa would not understand. He knew her well.  

 

I honestly think Juicy would have been OK living in that tiny apartment above the pizza joint. Of course Teresa would have none of that. He is a jack ass and a criminal, but I have always believed that he would have been fine with a much more simple life. Homemade wine, a decent cigar, some sausage. It always looked like enough for him. 

 

I am no attorney, but my understanding is that the Feds don't play. I cannot imagine that they would have filed so many charges against Teresa unless they had proof of her knowledge of the crimes committed in the mortgage fraud. The mocked up W-2's and paycheck stubs were hers. Did she think that she had actually worked those jobs and earned that money? She would have had to sign forms attesting to the fact that she did in fact earn that money. I cannot imagine that it matters one hoot if Juicy told her to do it or not.  She did it, and I am assuming she did it in front of witnesses. I have always imagined that the Feds had real proof of Teresa's culpability. Video evidence of her providing the payroll documentation, witnesses attesting to the fact that she was very engaged in the process and seemed to understand what she was signing, etc.  Of interest to me was the fact that all of these loans came from different banks. There have to be folks at some of these institutions who gave testimony against Teresa, at least that would be my thought. 

 

The most terrible part of this whole deal IMO is that there will be no trial. I am dying to know what the Discovery looked like - what specifically was the evidence they had against these two? Without seeing it, there will always be folks who will claim Teresa was mostly innocent, and certainly after she has been sentenced and feels safe in doing so, Teresa will make her claims. She will claim she was innocent, that she couldn't fight the big bad government. They were always out to get her and she just couldn't continue to fight. She had to take a plea for her girls. It was the only way. She will paint herself as a victim once again, probably with the knowledge that the public will never really know exactly what she did. 

[AuntieDiane6]

 

I honestly think Juicy would have been OK living in that tiny apartment above the pizza joint. Of course Teresa would have none of that. He is a jack ass and a criminal, but I have always believed that he would have been fine with a much more simple life. Homemade wine, a decent cigar, some sausage. It always looked like enough for him.

 

Plus, a goomah (girlfriend) on the side.

[ToukieSmith]

 

Hmm....  we had a fake tree every year when I grew up, and somehow I escaped into adulthood untraumatized!  

    

    So no, I don't think it's weird at all.

 

I think its weird for any of these people to have a fake tree that is stored in a beat up box because they are so extravagant and brand conscious. 

 

 

The most terrible part of this whole deal IMO is that there will be no trial. I am dying to know what the Discovery looked like - what specifically was the evidence they had against these two? Without seeing it, there will always be folks who will claim Teresa was mostly innocent, and certainly after she has been sentenced and feels safe in doing so, Teresa will make her claims. She will claim she was innocent, that she couldn't fight the big bad government. They were always out to get her and she just couldn't continue to fight. She had to take a plea for her girls. It was the only way. She will paint herself as a victim once again, probably with the knowledge that the public will never really know exactly what she did.

 

Aren't government documents available to the public?

[LotusFlower]

Aren't government documents available to the public?

A lot has already been in the public domain, including the indictments. The sentencing will also be open to the public, and that should be great theater. Teresa has pled guilty, so her days of claiming innocence are over. The prosecutors will chronicle the details of her crimes as they make their sentencing recommendation, and Teresa (and Joe) will then have to cop to what she did, take responsibility, and show remorse as she asks for leniency. She can hide and obfuscate all she wants in public, on the show, and in interviews, but before the judge - it's the real deal. No more hiding the truth.

[chabelisaywow]

 

Plus, a goomah (girlfriend) on the side

 

In the apartment across the hall.......

[motorcitymom65]

 

 

A lot has already been in the public domain, including the indictments. The sentencing will also be open to the public, and that should be great theater. Teresa has pled guilty, so her days of claiming innocence are over. The prosecutors will chronicle the details of her crimes as they make their sentencing recommendation, and Teresa (and Joe) will then have to cop to what she did, take responsibility, and show remorse as she asks for leniency. She can hide and obfuscate all she wants in public, on the show, and in interviews, but before the judge - it's the real deal. No more hiding the truth.

I would love to hear from someone with a legal background, but for me reading the indictments just won't do it, and I don't think we will get much more than that. I understand what they are accused of doing.  I have read all of the details of their crimes, but what I have never read is the evidence that they have against them. For instance, some banks have used video surveillance for a long time (well, most of them have used it for a long time, but some of them keep the footage for longer than do others). Do they have footage of Teresa and Joe sitting in banks signing loan documents? Do they have video of Teresa whipping her mocked up W-2 out of her bag? It's all key because she has/and will again, act like she didn't understand what was going on. 

 

The fact that Teresa pled guilty was what was always expected to happen because that is what happens when the Feds get involved. There was never any chance (in my mind) that Teresa was going to go through a trial and have the actual evidence against her shown to a jury and therefore the public. If it were shown, there would be no way for her to go back later and say she really didn't do anything, but had to take a plea for her kids. The end game will always be for Teresa to be back in the land of Reality TV. What else does she have? The only way she could ever hope to get back is if folks didn't really understand exactly how big her role was in the schemes.  I don't give a rats ass what responsibility she takes in front of the judge, or how remorseful she behaves to get a lighter sentence, she will flip that around soon after. Lots of folks do. The question will be whether or not the folks that use to love her (and some that still do) will believe and forgive her. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by motorcitymom65

[TattleTeeny]

I honestly think Juicy would have been OK living in that tiny apartment above the pizza joint. Of course Teresa would have none of that. He is a jack ass and a criminal, but I have always believed that he would have been fine with a much more simple life. Homemade wine, a decent cigar, some sausage. It always looked like enough for him.

 

I don't disagree (for as crotchety as the guy is sometimes, he also seems like a pretty laid-back person until something gets on his nerves) but he's an adult who could simply have (if the above is the case) said no. Teresa can't make him do anything, and an honorable person wouldn't do it no matter who asked or demanded. I'm thinking he was just as fine with all this as she was (and likely was the "mastermind).

Edited July 24, 2014 by TattleTeeny

[ghoulina]

I honestly think Juicy would have been OK living in that tiny apartment above the pizza joint. Of course Teresa would have none of that. He is a jack ass and a criminal, but I have always believed that he would have been fine with a much more simple life. Homemade wine, a decent cigar, some sausage. It always looked like enough for him.

 

I completely agree with you. But - "Happy Wife, Happy Life", eh?