S17.E04: You’ll Never Walk Alone

[RedbirdNelly]

it was nice to see George. I wanted to know, though, why she can walk side by side with George but we can't get close to Derrick? 

But otherwise nice--I also disagreed with her statements on getting over her death. I guess the charitable view would be that is what she hopes happens for her children. 

I don't want Tom to die. But they have driven his character into a ditch. Maybe he could have a near death experience and come back from that with a better storyline? 

I felt the Owen/Asian storyline would have been better and less PSA-like with better writing and acting. 

Why can't Glasses get COVID? is it really asking too much? and the anti-chemistry between him and ortho guy is still so strong. Ugh. It's hard to watch

[CandysWrapRoom]

19 hours ago, funnygirl said:

Georgie!!! After all these years, it's so nice to see hime again. TR Knight looks great!

Bailey, Meredith, Richard, and George together at the end was wonderful. Old Grey's > New Grey's. 

After the nonsense with Teddy and Tom, I don't really care what happens to Tom (or Teddy, for that matter). 

I loathe Deloser. 

Where's Hayes?

Link is a gem. 

 

I don't need to add anything. These are my thoughts word for word.

 

GEORGE!

19 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I cannot express how happy it made me to see T.R. Knight again. His scenes with Meredith were some of the best scenes of the past few seasons. It also made me really, REALLY miss Old Grey's. The dialogue is perfect, and it honestly made me tear up when he said he's seen Meredith's kids since he "checks up" on them. That was oddly comforting to me. I also thought it was funny that they addressed why he aged,

I really think the first few seasons of Greys were just such a perfect storm of writers, producers, actors and chemistry. Something that doesn't come around all that often. It really was one of the very best things I've ever seen on TV. Some of that is due to the skill and knowledge of the people involved, but some of it is just plain chemistry. 

Old Greys was a thing of beauty. 

[marceline]

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

That's what they were going for, but they misfired because it's not Owen's white privilege that's the problem, it's limited research publications.  White men are the white rats of medical research and it's only lately that ethnic differences are considered worth looking at. I am old enough to remember when Carol Tavris shocked the health care world with her book The Mismeasure of Woman in 1992 with research showing that women react differently to drugs than men do and the standard dosages that were calibrated on 185 pound men do not work the same for a 120 pound woman.

I remember that and you are 100 percent right when you say it shocked the healthcare world.

I was disappointed by the Asian patient storyline because it had the building blocks of being something really good. Owen was a good character for this story because he's Cristina ex-husband. I kept waiting for him to say "Cristina would've kicked my ass for this." Part of the problem with this story is that our introduction to the Asian perspective was Nico (I had to look up his real name) and this newbie character that none of us care about. It was preachy and clunky and all the other adjectives people have used upthread because it was 1.) mediocre writing that 2.) didn't leverage a character's history while 3) some actors involved weren't up to the challenge.

I'm glad Grey's wants to tackle racial disparities in health care. I'm also glad that this particular case wasn't COVID-related because this was an issue long before COVID. 

As a personal aside, this storyline was extra interesting to me because I'm a Black woman who has had right-sided diverticulosis. Not -itis because there was no infection but plenty of pain and part of the diagnosis was ruling out appendicitis.

[MarylandGirl]

Can they do a spinoff that's all the dead characters living on a beach? I'd tune in to see Derek, George, Mark, Lexie, Adele, bomb guy, other people I'm forgetting, maybe some memorable patients interact. And if Tom dies, he can be there, too (I have a weird fondness for his character).

I mean, I guess there's Ellis, but I don't really have a desire to see her in it.

Edited December 5, 2020 by MarylandGirl

[madmax]

The only episode of Grey's I ever cried at was when George died.  I almost cried here when he said he checks up on Meredith's kids.

The Asian storyline was ridiculously clunky.  And Nico taking out his frustrations on Owen, who as far as we've seen has never treated him bad, was ridiculous.  Yes, Owen made a mistake, but it wasn't intentionally racist.  When he said to Bailey something about you go with what you know, I thought that was true.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's usually a duck.  Of course, she came back and told him he was making excuses.

Helm was good this episode with Tom.  I especially loved the line about world destruction or whatever it was.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Awww, George! Seeing him made me remember how much better the show was with MAGIC. I loved his beach scenes with Meredith and being reminded of the friendships that we used to see on this show.

In contrast, I don't care at all about Jo and Jackson hooking up. But I begrudgingly admit that I ended up liking some of their scenes just because they gave us some levity and lightness amid all the COVID stuff. I laughed when Jo agreed to come over but then yelled, "No Kenny G!" as she was walking away.

This week we saw exactly why McWidow was right when he said that having someone who doesn't love Meredith would be a good choice to make her medical decisions. Richard's indecision could have cost her a spot in the medical trial. Not making a decision to do something is actually making a decision not to change anything, so I was glad when Andrew told Richard to make a fucking decision about the trial instead of just hemming and hawing about it. I understood his concerns about how they didn't really know what COVID was yet, but if he had continued to put off making a decision, then the default decision would be letting Meredith just lie in bed and hope that she recovered on her own.

I have never liked Winston or Maggie more than when they were geeking out of pencils. I feel bad that his dad sucks but I liked that Maggie was repaying her "I need some time" request to him and giving him some time after the awkward zoom for his nana's birthday. Honestly, it's so unlike Maggie to let someone be instead of barging in and babbling nonstop about what they need to do that I was shocked.

Like Amelia, I have a partner who is much more of an optimist than I am. Unlike Amelia, I don't hate it. I actually love that he tries to cheer me up when I'm cranky. I appreciate that he doesn't sink down to my mood. I get that she is frustrated and stressed, but if she gets to wallow in her misery then why does she get to tell him to stop being so cheery? People react differently to difficult situations but it's not really appropriate to tell someone that their reaction is wrong. I had to laugh when she said that she had been shoving down her fear and grief. Really? Because it's all been on the surface as far as I can see. I was glad when he finally told her that he's the way he is and he's not going to be her partner in misery.

Wow, an episode with more than two Asian characters who get lines? I can't remember the last time I saw that on this show when the two characters weren't related! I'm glad that they brought up that the standard of care is centered around white patients. There are so many side effects that are listed for drugs or symptoms for diseases where the data comes from studies that were almost exclusively white males. Medicine definitely needs to be more inclusive. When there are medical issues that are more common to a certain population, it is essential that doctors know this. The information is out there. It just needs to be utilized and applied. They touched on this a few seasons ago when Bailey had her heart attack because the symptoms are different for women than they are for men, which is why women are commonly and mistakenly sent home instead of treated when they come into the ER.

Quote

Some grief is heavier than other grief. Sometimes it moves through you. Sometimes it just gets stuck. You carry it.

 

4 hours ago, dvr devotee said:

So much of what was said on the beach hit me hard, in a way that this show's dialogue doesn't often do to me anymore. But the lines about grief were like an arrow through my heart.

While so many of this show's storylines have stuck with me after viewing, I don't know that it's ever translated to me evaluating my own life. But those lines did, and even today, almost 20 hours later, I've been thinking about how I've moved through different griefs in my own life. I don't really know why those lines hit me so hard, but they did.

Coincidentally, just a few days ago I was talking to someone about losing a parent. My dad died five years ago. The guy I was talking to lost his dad nineteen years ago. And a friend of a friend just lost his dad this week. It's been five years so I'm past the initial grief. The man who lost his father nineteen years ago said that the pain is still there for him, but it's different than it used to be. I was already thinking about how different grief is in so many ways (when a parent dies versus when a sibling dies, the immediate grief versus the long term loss, etc) so the conversation between Meredith and George was really timely for me.

As a storyline, I'm not crazy about Meredith being in limbo but as a viewer I like that we are getting scenes away from the intensity of COVID and the hospital. Seeing Meredith be calm and happy with George at the beach is a nice break from everyone's nonstop frustration with the pandemic.

[CarpeFelis]

GEORGE!!! (I was also happy to see him as the brother on The Flight Attendant.)

If Meredith can have Richard and Bailey, who are both alive, there along with George, then WHY couldn’t they have Cristina? Yeah, I know, she’s probably busy with Killing Eve.

Anyone else surprised that Koracick’s Tesla didn’t have a vanity license plate with something obnoxiously narcissistic on it? Any why the heck does he keep it parked out in the driveway? Does he just run a really long cable out there to charge it overnight? I’d expect him to take better care of it than this.

[LexieLily]

Something I just thought of: if Teddy and Tom dated throughout the majority of her pregnancy and were friends-with-benefits/affair buddies for the weeks/months before the not-wedding, would Teddy not have a key to Tom's place or know where a possible spare key was kept? It (yes, even a day later!) seriously bothers me that knowing he was alone and another co-worker had been concerned enough about him to talk to her about him, that she left the food on his porch in the rain and didn't do anything to investigate further when he didn't answer the door or even respond to her. She didn't even try to call him.

Edited December 5, 2020 by LexieLily

[anna0852]

Jo and Jackson didn't bother as much as I thought. I was actually reminded of Mark and Callie's 'friends who have sex thing' that never turned romantic. Keep to that and I'm good.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

After reading through the comments in this thread, I just wanted to point out that none of the characters on the show said Owen was racist. People here are jumping to his defense to say that he wasn't being racist, but no one actually said that he was racist on the show.

Mabel specifically said that she wasn't accusing him of being racist. She just wanted to tell him that Asian patients with appendicitis symptoms have a higher likelihood of actually having right sided diverticulitis because she didn't want him to make the same mistake in the future. When Nico confronted him, he stated that Hunt was ignorant of this information. Bailey told him that defaulting to treating all patients as white doesn't work because they aren't all white.

Mabel, Nico, and Bailey never said he was racist, just that he was ignorant of the higher incidence of a particular medical condition in a specific population of people. Mabel was understandably upset that Hunt misdiagnosed this patient with appendicitis four weeks ago and was sent home with just antibiotics, which means he was suffering with untreated right sided diverticulitis for a month.

As Bailey said, everyone has implicit bias. It's up to the doctors to stay educated about the research that's out there to avoid letting their implicit bias blind them when diagnosing patients. We've heard these same doctors trying to figure out what's wrong with a patient and then had someone pipe up with, "I just read a paper about a patient who fell off a chair on a Tuesday while standing on one foot and wearing a blue sock on his left hand, so it must be this super rare syndrome!" so it's obvious that they're expected to read medical journals and stay current on all kinds of recent research, so it doesn't seem ridiculous to expect the chief of trauma to learn that there's a particular medical issue with very common symptoms that can be something else in a certain population. You can't just assume that everyone with a fever and abdominal pain has appendicitis.

I didn't have an issue with what Nico said to Hunt. In fact, I imagined hearing Derek say it to a resident in the middle of a surgery and no one saying boo about it. Over the years, we have seen various doctors on the show get huffy because another doctor didn't know XYZ. I don't see how what happened this week was much different.

Quote

Mabel: Our patient's Asian American so right sided diverticulitis is a greater possibility, but Dr. Hunt didn't scan him when he first came in.
Nico: So what's your question?
Mabel: I think he should know so he doesn't make this mistake again but I don't know how to talk to him about it.
Nico: You don't know how to accuse your attending of being a racist?
Mabel: That's not what I meant.
Nico: That's what he's going to hear.
Mabel: So your advice is do nothing?
Nico: You're a resident. He's an attending. My advice to you is if you're going to have a conversation with him, at least know what to expect.

 

Quote

Hunt: It's awful [the patient's wife] can't visit.
Mabel: It's awful this happened in the first place.
Nico: Tseng, you need to step out. Now.
Hunt: You don't have to be so hard on her. She's very attached to this patient.
Nico: She's upset that a misdiagnosis cost this patient the next four weeks of his livelihood.
Hunt: Me too. Sometimes you have to weigh the risks and make a decision. Right sided diverticulitis is extremely rare.
Nico: But not as rare for Dave. It's ten times more likely in patients of Asian descent than white patients, which you clearly didn't know or didn't take into consideration. But either way, it's on you because all of this could have been avoided with a simple scan.

 

Quote

Hunt: Hypothetical - Asian American male presents with fever, high white blood cell count, and lower quadrant pain.
Bailey: Oh, is this the restaurant guy? I caught him in the ER.
Hunt: I see a dozen presentations like that a month, all appendicitis. If I'm honest, in that moment I didn't give it much thought. He was any patient.
Bailey: Any non-Asian patient.
Hunt: I defaulted to a standard of care.
Bailey: That's centered around white patients.
Hunt: I never want to make that mistake again. There is no excuse. You know when you're dealing with a high patient count, you have to make judgment calls. You have to ask, "What is the most likely problem?"
Bailey: So there's no excuses other than the excuses you just listed off?
Hunt: It's not what I meant. I just want to treat everyone equally.
Bailey: Equal doesn't work for everybody, Hunt. It's about equity, patients getting what they need whether it fits into a protocol or not. Look, I just put my parents in assisted living and I can't stop worrying that the won't get enough care because there's so few black folks there. Meanwhile, my dad's freaked out because on his floor the nurses are male. In his mind, good nurses are female, period. We all have biases, Hunt, including you. What matters now is what you do about it. You're the chief of trauma. If protocols don't work, then read, learn, question, and change them.

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 12/3/2020 at 7:17 PM, KaveDweller said:

So that female Asian doctor upset with Hunt, is she a known character we have seen before? They were all interacting with her like she was someone we should know and I don't remember her at all. I also didn't catch her name.

 

On 12/3/2020 at 7:38 PM, PepSinger said:

They've done this so many times that I just roll with it at this point.

 

On 12/3/2020 at 8:53 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm rewatching old seasons, and that's basically how they introduce a lot of characters.  Callie, for example, was a resident with Bailey all along, we just didn't see her until halfway through season 2 - but all the characters acted like she'd been their colleague for years.  Same with introducing Arizona; I'm fairly certain she was "there all along" too.

 

On 12/3/2020 at 8:58 PM, KaveDweller said:

Yeah, I guess that's true, I just wasn't sure if I missed something. I did like her.

According to IMDB, her name is Mabel Tseng and she's been seen in seven episodes.

6.13 Save the Last Dance for Me
6.14 A Diagnosis
6.15 Snowblind
6.21 Put on a Happy Face
17.1 All Tomorrow's Parties
17.3 My Happy Ending

On 12/3/2020 at 9:15 PM, statsgirl said:

Four weeks off work is hard ( especially if you don't have insurance) but it's not the end of the world.

He said his great grandfather opened a restaurant after returning from the internment camp and Bailey later referred to him as "the restaurant guy" so I assumed that not working meant he wouldn't be running the family business and the restaurant would have to potentially close while he was recuperating.

Edited December 6, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[PepSinger]

28 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

After reading through the comments in this thread, I just wanted to point out that none of the characters on the show said Owen was racist. People here are jumping to his defense to say that he wasn't being racist, but no one actually said that he was racist on the show.

Mabel specifically said that she wasn't accusing him of being racist. She just wanted to tell him that Asian patients with appendicitis symptoms have a higher likelihood of actually having right sided diverticulitis because she didn't want him to make the same mistake in the future. When Nico confronted him, he stated that Hunt was ignorant of this information. Bailey told him that defaulting to treating all patients as white doesn't work because they aren't all white.

Mabel, Nico, and Bailey never said he was racist, just that he was ignorant of the higher incidence of a particular medical condition in a specific population of people. Mabel was understandably upset that Hunt misdiagnosed this patient with appendicitis four weeks ago and was sent home with just antibiotics, which means he was suffering with untreated right sided diverticulitis for a month.

As Bailey said, everyone has implicit bias. It's up to the doctors to stay educated about the research that's out there to avoid letting their implicit bias blind them when diagnosing patients. We've heard these same doctors trying to figure out what's wrong with a patient and then had someone pipe up with, "I just read a paper about a patient who fell off a chair on a Tuesday while standing on one foot and wearing a blue sock on his left hand, so it must be this super rare syndrome!" so it's obvious that they're expected to read medical journals and stay current on all kinds of recent research, so it doesn't seem ridiculous to expect the chief of trauma to learn that there's a particular medical issue with very common symptoms that can be something else in a certain population. You can't just assume that everyone with a fever and abdominal pain has appendicitis.

I didn't have an issue with what Nico said to Hunt. In fact, I imagined hearing Derek say it to a resident in the middle of a surgery and no one saying boo about it. Over the years, we have seen various doctors on the show get huffy because another doctor didn't know XYZ. I don't see how what happened this week was much different.

Quoting the whole thing because I completely agree with you. Reading the comments, I kept wondering if I missed something in the show because they went out of their way to say Owen wasn't being racist. In fact, that's why in my original post I said this was one of the better "real life" storylines they've done. They didn't make him out to be the villain. It was just ignorance. I also thought that not only is Owen the Chief of Trauma, but he's in a highly Asian populated area. He should know this information. The analogy to earlier seasons is a great point.

Something to note is that Julie Wong, who is of Asian descent, wrote this episode. This is why diversity in the writers' room matters. I just wish she had a stronger actor in Nico to execute it.

Edited December 5, 2020 by PepSinger

[ElectricBoogaloo]

11 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Quoting the whole thing because I completely agree with you. Reading the comments, I kept wondering if I missed something in the show because they went out of their way to say Owen wasn't being racist. In fact, that's why in my original post I said this was one of the better "real life" storylines they've done. They didn't make him out to be the villain. It was just ignorance. I also thought that not only is Owen the Chief of Trauma, but he's in a highly Asian populated area. He should know this information. The analogy to earlier seasons is a great point.

I thought I had zoned out during an important conversation where everyone said that Hunt was a racist, which is why I went back and rewatched all the scenes from this storyline to confirm that I hadn't missed something. I agree that they made it clear he was just ignorant and that was why he assumed it was originally appendicitis instead of doing further tests when the patient initially came in four weeks ago.

I can't count how many times we've seen people on this show berate someone else by saying, "You should have known it was XYZ!" If anything, Nico and Bailey were a lot less belligerent with Hunt than we've seen when other doctors were reprimanded for not knowing stuff like this.

[30 Helens]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

As Bailey said, everyone has implicit bias. It's up to the doctors to stay educated about the research that's out there to avoid letting their implicit bias blind them when diagnosing patients.

Kudos to the whole post, but I’m clipping this part because I think it really gets to the heart of the matter. Doctors overlook things all the time because diagnostic norms are based on a single standard— which tends to be white, and male. That’s why women’s heart attack symptoms are often misdiagnosed, because they are different than men’s. A given set of symptoms point to one thing on a white male, but can indicate something else on a black female, or an Asian male. 

As a doctor, and especially one with Owen’s elevated position, it’s his responsibility to learn about the afflictions (and symptoms) that are common to different races and genders. That was Bailey’s point. It has nothing to do with racism. It’s about ignorance, and a doctor’s need to recognize and overcome it.

The concept of medicine as a neverending stream of information was mirrored in a different scene, when someone was despairing about how much there is to learn about Covid and how it keeps changing. It’s hard to keep up, but that’s a doctor’s job. Don’t be complacent, Owen.

On a different topic, yay George! It was really good to see him again. It was especially gratifying to see him do something other than grin at Meredith and spout vague aphorisms. When Derrick comes back (and you know he will), I hope there is a similar interaction. Otherwise, what’s the point?

[Anela]

I watched this last night, before going to sleep. George! I'm so glad it was him. I was with my dad last night, driving through a town that is determined to have some Christmas spirit, and I told dad that it reminded me of George saying, "It looks like Santa threw up in here." 

[madmax]

23 minutes ago, Anela said:

I watched this last night, before going to sleep. George! I'm so glad it was him. I was with my dad last night, driving through a town that is determined to have some Christmas spirit, and I told dad that it reminded me of George saying, "It looks like Santa threw up in here." 

Every Christmas, I use George's line at my sister-in-law's.  Well, probably not this Christmas because I won't be there, but I'm sure it will look the same.

[amarante]

21 hours ago, statsgirl said:

 

He's a doctor and the hospital apparently doesn't have any internists on staff.  My question is how did Teddy end up being her doctor?  Meredith isn't a surgical case. Surely Teddy has something cardio-thoracic to do.

Well for starters they need to keep their leads with storylines.

But the reality is that during the height of the pandemic, there were no elective surgeries and there were articles on how even theoretically necessary procedures were down because people were avoiding seeing doctors or going to the hospital unless there was absolutely no alternative.

Since COVID was such an unknown (and still is to some extent) any doctor would theoretically be called in to handle the overflowing cases. So many patients and overtaxed hospital facilities.

[readster]

33 minutes ago, amarante said:

Well for starters they need to keep their leads with storylines.

But the reality is that during the height of the pandemic, there were no elective surgeries and there were articles on how even theoretically necessary procedures were down because people were avoiding seeing doctors or going to the hospital unless there was absolutely no alternative.

Since COVID was such an unknown (and still is to some extent) any doctor would theoretically be called in to handle the overflowing cases. So many patients and overtaxed hospital facilities.

How true, one my neighbors who is in the age range, didn't get his much needed knee surgery until late May. He was suppose to have it in March and also a root canal in April because those surgeries couldn't be put on top of each other. His root was pushed to Early April and the surgery for his knee was back on just after Memorial Day. It was getting bad for him, but he said himself: "I rather have to eat soft foods and walk crooked instead of dead." My wife who has epilepsy is looking at a brain surgery, but it's being set for specific dates due to COVID. Of course you still have doctors who are well known spotting off that COVID is just bad flu and you should just get it and go. It's a crazy world we live in.

[Shellie]

18 hours ago, marceline said:

I remember that and you are 100 percent right when you say it shocked the healthcare world.

I was disappointed by the Asian patient storyline because it had the building blocks of being something really good. Owen was a good character for this story because he's Cristina ex-husband. I kept waiting for him to say "Cristina would've kicked my ass for this."

I wish he would have rejected any claims of racism by saying he was once upon a time married to a Korean woman, for Pete's sake.

[FnkyChkn34]

22 hours ago, statsgirl said:

He's a doctor and the hospital apparently doesn't have any internists on staff.  My question is how did Teddy end up being her doctor?  Meredith isn't a surgical case. Surely Teddy has something cardio-thoracic to do.

Isn't COVID-19 a cardio-thoracic disease?  Teddy is heart and lungs.  At the very least, COVID-19 is lungs, but it's also proving to damage hearts too.  It may not be surgical, but a cardio-thoracic doctor makes total sense.

[marceline]

56 minutes ago, Shellie said:

I wish he would have rejected any claims of racism by saying he was once upon a time married to a Korean woman, for Pete's sake.

That would've led us down the "Some of my best friends are X" trope and that never ends well.

But even away from this particular story, some mention of Cristina would've been extra appropriate given Meredith's condition. There was a missed opportunity to use Owen's past to add depth to this story.

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, readster said:

How true, one my neighbors who is in the age range, didn't get his much needed knee surgery until late May. He was suppose to have it in March and also a root canal in April because those surgeries couldn't be put on top of each other. His root was pushed to Early April and the surgery for his knee was back on just after Memorial Day. It was getting bad for him, but he said himself: "I rather have to eat soft foods and walk crooked instead of dead." My wife who has epilepsy is looking at a brain surgery, but it's being set for specific dates due to COVID. Of course you still have doctors who are well known spotting off that COVID is just bad flu and you should just get it and go. It's a crazy world we live in.

 

my mother hasn't been in for her mammogram (she's a breast cancer survivor) since March, and she hasn't been in for her eye surgery roughy around the same time. I have a broken tooth (which i had to go in, because it split so badly, they basically packed it and said we'll give you a crown when it's not so crazy). 

so i figure with this all doctors are on deck. regardless of their specialities. . 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, Shellie said:

I wish he would have rejected any claims of racism by saying he was once upon a time married to a Korean woman, for Pete's sake.

Being married to/friends with/adoptive parents to [insert marginalized group here] does not automatically mean you are not racist/sexist/biased. Using your logic, a man married to a woman couldn't possibly be a misogynist.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, readster said:

How true, one my neighbors who is in the age range, didn't get his much needed knee surgery until late May. He was suppose to have it in March and also a root canal in April because those surgeries couldn't be put on top of each other. His root was pushed to Early April and the surgery for his knee was back on just after Memorial Day. It was getting bad for him, but he said himself: "I rather have to eat soft foods and walk crooked instead of dead." My wife who has epilepsy is looking at a brain surgery, but it's being set for specific dates due to COVID. Of course you still have doctors who are well known spotting off that COVID is just bad flu and you should just get it and go. It's a crazy world we live in.

One of my friends, who is a nurse at a hospital, was scheduled to have gall bladder surgery at the end of March. It ended up being pushed back due to COVID because it was considered elective, so she was going to work in pain every day and waiting for elective surgeries to get put back on the schedule. In the mean time, she was only able to eat jello and crackers. Everything else gave her major diarrhea.

[Biggie B]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

One of my friends, who is a nurse at a hospital, was scheduled to have gall bladder surgery at the end of March. It ended up being pushed back due to COVID because it was considered elective, so she was going to work in pain every day and waiting for elective surgeries to get put back on the schedule. In the mean time, she was only able to eat jello and crackers. Everything else gave her major diarrhea.

I had my gall bladder taken out on March 13th, the date that my state (Connecticut) basically closed down. I was extremely glad that my surgery happened, because I was in pretty bad shape. Before Covid really exploded, and my surgery was being planned, I had the choice of March 13 or about three weeks later. Thank goodness I chose the 13th - it might not have happened had it been scheduled for the end of March. I had a complication a week post-op and was re-admitted to the hospital but thank goodness, everything went smoothly.

Anyway, back to the show - I thought it was wonderful to see George, truly meaningful. It's funny - I've been watching Grey's since Day One, and George was actually not one of my favorite characters for a long time. His initial boyish puppy-like demeanor wasn't something I cared for.  But I grew to appreciate him and his significance in Meredith's life. I thought the beach scenes with him were well done and very well written. They were a welcome visual contrast to the quasi-claustrophobic scenes in the hospital, what with everyone in PPE and all the plastic sheeting and restricted areas. The beach was open, clean, sunny - and beautifully filmed. I even liked what everyone wore - angelic white shirts and khaki pants, no shoes - they looked like a J.Jill or Eileen Fisher photo shoot. I loved how TR Knight played with the sand in his two hands as he and Meredith sat and talked. That was such a natural, realistic gesture.  Does anyone know where those scenes were filmed? The rocky beach was unusually beautiful. 

I think Tom will die. I agree with all who have said that he has devolved into a very annoying, unsympathetic character, which is too bad. And his death will obviously be a punch in the gut for Teddy, so that makes for more drama. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Biggie B

[tvfanatic13]

What was the explanation for why George aged? I missed that. Thanks!

[ams1001]

17 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

What was the explanation for why George aged? I missed that. Thanks!

"When she pondered why he’d gotten older in her head, he ventured that it was perhaps more peaceful for her to imagine him that way."

(quote from the TVLine recap)

[nokat]

On 12/3/2020 at 7:12 PM, Madding crowd said:

This one made me cry. George *sobbing*. Good episode but very depressing. I wonder if Tom will die. 

I put off watching this because I knew I'd cry. George showed up and someone cut onions. Even the writers having him say why do I look older.

[jcbrown]

On 12/4/2020 at 12:50 PM, taanja said:

Completely agree. It made everyone in the scene unlikable to me.

Teddy for me is the problem. Teddy knew she was cheating on Owen. She is the one engaged to Owen - She is the one who takes the blame ... and what really annoys me is that I am even typing about Teddy and Owen. Two characters I can not stand.

Tom I have no problem with. He wasn't cheating on his fiancé/girlfriend.  he was just fucking a willing person.

That said-- Tom is a gonner for sure.

Completely agree--I cannot stand Teddy and Owen is just tiresome. Tom, I still like. Please don't kill him, show.

On 12/4/2020 at 2:29 PM, DEL901 said:

He was a jerk to sleep with an engaged woman, but I believe that he totally thought she was breaking up with Owen and coming back to him.   She didn’t just hurt Owen, she hurt Tom too.  

This is how I read the situation, too.

[nokat]

On 12/3/2020 at 7:17 PM, funnygirl said:

Georgie!!! After all these years, it's so nice to see hime again. TR Knight looks great!

Bailey, Meredith, Richard, and George together at the end was wonderful. Old Grey's > New Grey's. 

After the nonsense with Teddy and Tom, I don't really care what happens to Tom (or Teddy, for that matter). 

I loathe Deloser. 

Where's Hayes?

Link is a gem. 

 

I like Tom, so if it means him and Teddy, I'm okay with that. The Owen story line it happens too often. I don't want to see more of the Asian doctor and contacts.

[Diana Berry]

The four sitting at the beach looked like CGI.

[Avabelle]

12 hours ago, jcbrown said:

Teddy for me is the problem. Teddy knew she was cheating on Owen. She is the one engaged to Owen - She is the one who takes the blame ... and what really annoys me is that I am even typing about Teddy and Owen. Two characters I can not stand.

Tom I have no problem with. He wasn't cheating on his fiancé/girlfriend.  he was just fucking a willing person.

Couldn’t agree with this more. Also Tom is in love with Teddy. It’s not like he was hooking up with her out of pure maliciousness to Owen. It was mean but Owen also screwed Tom over when he and Teddy reunited without telling Tom.

But actually neither here to me are really fault because the issue here is Teddy. She is the common denominator of utter selfishness. She betrayed both men at the end of the day. She’s the worst and it sucks that we have to lose a great character in Tom so we can watch the show pathetically attempt to redeem Teddy - an unsympathetic asshole who is so busy seeing herself as the victim that she can’t actually see the damage and hurt she’s caused. Taking out Owen there are two young kids involved here who she fucked over as well during her self pitying affair.

in a twist I’d love to see Teddy die and Tom/Owen bond over their shared grief. It sucks that Tom had to likely be sacrificed for two of the shows most irritating characters who should have been removed after their baby was born and their storyline came to a natural conclusion.

[UnoAgain]

Or... Tom could survive and just wash his hands of Teddy... And then teddy could get her act together... I dunno if that means she's back with owen or alone.. Or she wanders over to a woman who knows... Tho I'm not a fan of tom... I don't wanna see him die... And I don't think he will

[Anela]

1 hour ago, Avabelle said:

Couldn’t agree with this more. Also Tom is in love with Teddy. It’s not like he was hooking up with her out of pure maliciousness to Owen. It was mean but Owen also screwed Tom over when he and Teddy reunited without telling Tom.

But actually neither here to me are really fault because the issue here is Teddy. She is the common denominator of utter selfishness. She betrayed both men at the end of the day. She’s the worst and it sucks that we have to lose a great character in Tom so we can watch the show pathetically attempt to redeem Teddy - an unsympathetic asshole who is so busy seeing herself as the victim that she can’t actually see the damage and hurt she’s caused. Taking out Owen there are two young kids involved here who she fucked over as well during her self pitying affair.

in a twist I’d love to see Teddy die and Tom/Owen bond over their shared grief. It sucks that Tom had to likely be sacrificed for two of the shows most irritating characters who should have been removed after their baby was born and their storyline came to a natural conclusion.

They are *all* the issue. Owen who can't make up his mind, until a woman makes it up for him. Teddy who was either self-sabotaging, or just likes to cheat. Tom - I'm not as familiar with him, but he knew that he was sleeping with an engaged woman. He is just as bad. They all are. 

[Avabelle]

28 minutes ago, Anela said:

They are *all* the issue. Owen who can't make up his mind, until a woman makes it up for him. Teddy who was either self-sabotaging, or just likes to cheat. Tom - I'm not as familiar with him, but he knew that he was sleeping with an engaged woman. He is just as bad. They all are.

I’ll respectfully disagree - they’re all idiots but in this particular scenario Teddy sucks.

[Zichovski]

On 12/3/2020 at 10:53 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm rewatching old seasons, and that's basically how they introduce a lot of characters.  Callie, for example, was a resident with Bailey all along, we just didn't see her until halfway through season 2 - but all the characters acted like she'd been their colleague for years.  Same with introducing Arizona; I'm fairly certain she was "there all along" too.

May I ask why?  He barely said 4 words this episode.  I think he may have been in 2 scenes total. 

 

I was bored.  But for seeing George again, which was great, I was really bored.  I don't care about Maggie and her zoom-boyfriend at all.  Linc and Amelia were ok, but I really hope they don't make Amelia spiral again, that would just be too much.  Teddy? Zzz... Will a near death experience finally give Koracik a soul?  And don't get me started on a Jo and Jackson pairing.  Ugh.  

I have to agree. I found this episode boring. The "Geroge part" was only interesting part that I was looking for during this episode. I am afraid that this season will be little bit boring. I know it is important to talk about COVID, but.. I miss the old Grey´s anatomy episodes and drama.  

 

I don´t know what to think about this episode. It was little bit boring for me. The only interesting part here was George. I am very happy that he was there, but I hoped that we will be Lexie to be honest. I hope Geroge wasn´t last last character, because this was the only interesting part of this episode. I hope we´ll see Lexie with Mark.  ♥

Jo and Jackson? No thank you.. sorry not sorry but I don´t ship them. There isn ´t something special between them.

[ljenkins782]

On 12/4/2020 at 10:52 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Awww, George! Seeing him made me remember how much better the show was with MAGIC. I loved his beach scenes with Meredith and being reminded of the friendships that we used to see on this show.

In contrast, I don't care at all about Jo and Jackson hooking up. But I begrudgingly admit that I ended up liking some of their scenes just because they gave us some levity and lightness amid all the COVID stuff. I laughed when Jo agreed to come over but then yelled, "No Kenny G!" as she was walking away.

George's scenes were the saving grace of an increasingly tiresome show. The parts about his mom and how she's still carrying her grief over  him were so heartbreaking. And those scenes were hands down the best acting in the show. I'd honestly prefer to have Meredith stay in the coma visiting with departed characters than watch any of the current storylines.

Words can't express how much I loathe the Jo/Jackson storyline. Like, dive for the remote and FF, LOATHE it. It's so high school-y and ridiculous. And the actress who plays Jo seems to be regressing in her acting abilities. This show has always been oversexed and the trend continues with Linc and Amelia somehow finding time for tantric sessions in the middle of caring for a houseful of children, one of whom was born so recently that I don't think Amelia would even be medically cleared for sex, let alone in the mood for it. I guess it's a magic baby who sleeps all the time and the other kids just do their own thing? And then Jo being so desperate for action that she makes an actual pitch to a board member/boss figure for a friends with benefits arrangement, it's just so silly.

There are so few characters left that I have any interest in. This show used to be good at renewing itself with new classes of interns where some of them become regulars with storylines that interest me, but currently, I'm over pretty much everyone. I like Meredith for continuity's sake and I like Bailey and Jackson, but I could take or leave pretty much everyone else. I liked Katherine Fox's character, but she's rarely on the show lately. I actually do like Tom, but his character seems out of options.

Never been a fan of Owen or Teddy, I only like Maggie and Amelia in very small doses, I like Webber in a mix with other characters but not so much on his own, and I can barely remember the rest.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I hope Tom having COVID gives him one of those moments of clarity that many people experience when they're sick or facing death - hopefully it will make realize that he has a great life, a great job, and he doesn't need Teddy. Then he can go back to being the awesome Koracik who planned to take a month off from work so he could take a terminally ill child to see every show on Broadway.

[leighdear]

George was always my least favorite character in the original crew.  I found him ineffectual, timid and weird.  Then marrying Callie was a joke.  And if he can "keep an eye" on Meredith's kids while he's dead, then why did he have to ask her if she still "dances it out"?   Wouldn't he know that too, if he can see what's happening with live people?    

Lazy storytelling.  I hate the "guest star" stunts jammed into series that are circling the drain.  Shonda needs to just let it go with whatever dignity remains.  

[nokat]

17 hours ago, Zichovski said:

Jo and Jackson? No thank you.. sorry not sorry but I don´t ship them. There isn ´t something special between them.

I was thinking this isn't going to happen.  Then it did. I may be one of the few who liked Japril, but damn those two had chemistry.

[RedbirdNelly]

I was not a big George fan when he was on the show, and his death scene did not move me since I preferred it better the first time when Gant died that way on ER. The ER version was jaw dropping. Since I'd already seen it, I figured the GA twist out too quickly to be moved.

That being said, it was nice to see George again.

[sweeks]

I wasn't a huge George fan back in the day, but seeing how the show and its characters have devolved over the years gives me a new appreciation for him. It was great seeing him in this episode, and the scenes between him and Meredith felt like classic Grey's. There were also some solid callbacks, including the two of them lying side by side on the sand (it made me think of him being sandwiched between Mer and Izzie on the bed) and to Meredith telling him that he changed her life, which echoes Meredith's voiceover at the end of the season 5 finale. 

 

[Daisy]

On 12/4/2020 at 6:01 PM, RedbirdNelly said:

it was nice to see George. I wanted to know, though, why she can walk side by side with George but we can't get close to Derrick? 

But otherwise nice--I also disagreed with her statements on getting over her death. I guess the charitable view would be that is what she hopes happens for her children. 

 

I'm assuming because a big part of her hasn't gotten over Derek's death (no matter how glib she is). and by going to Derek, it really means accepting death and leaving her kids.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Daisy
because i'm pretty sure Meredith wouldn't get over Meredith's death also meredith isn't dead.

[limecoke]

How does ignorance make Owen a racist? Did his medical school fail to teach this or were they racist too?  Perhaps the doctors would serve him better by educating him without the indignation and accusations.  Just a thought.

What Link needs to firmly understand is that no one, and I mean NO ONE ranks higher than Meredith Grey. She is the sun, moon and stars and everyone else is sloppy seconds. Including Link. Better get used to it pal.

How come Almost Dead Meredith could walk and talk with George’s ghost but not with Derek? ( I see I’m not the first to ask this.)

Edited December 8, 2020 by limecoke

[WinJet0819]

On 12/4/2020 at 10:25 PM, anna0852 said:

Jo and Jackson didn't bother as much as I thought. I was actually reminded of Mark and Callie's 'friends who have sex thing' that never turned romantic. Keep to that and I'm good.

Though while Mark and Callie's friends with benefits relationship never turned romantic (thankfully), they did wind up with an unplanned (shocking on this show) pregnancy. Let's hope that doesn't happen here, and that their relationship doesn't go beyond the sex.

Edited December 8, 2020 by WinJet0819

[WinJet0819]

On 12/6/2020 at 4:26 PM, Zichovski said:

Jo and Jackson? No thank you.. sorry not sorry but I don´t ship them. There isn ´t something special between them.

I really hope there isn't and their relationship is just sex. Though going by the pattern of this show over the years, all it takes is one life threatening event to make them realize they can't be without one another. It's almost like Shonda and the gang are trying to see which characters haven't slept together yet. Jackson's single and Jo's single, so let's put them together. What's next? Schmitt figuring out he's bisexual and falling for Helm?  It's things like this which is why they need to let the show end. They no longer have any original ideas. Just who can sleep with who and one big disaster each season.

[readster]

6 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

  It's things like this which is why they need to let the show end. They no longer have any original ideas. Just who can sleep with who and one big disaster each season.

It's completely ripped from the headlines season. Dealing with people from professionals to stories that have been going on since Day 1 of COVID. I mean, they are going to deal with Baily's parents being in assistive living and how COVID broke out in those places due to care workers not thinking straight and so forth. Doctors falling into getting COVID themselves and losing their minds and even talking to anti-maskers about things. Plus, they got Nico back for most of the season even though he is going to be on another show soon and they are like: "Hey, how can we use this guy?" "I know have him continue toxic relationship with Schimdt and let's throw in some racial story lines, story telling gold!" Just no.

[transitfan]

7 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

I really hope there isn't and their relationship is just sex. Though going by the pattern of this show over the years, all it takes is one life threatening event to make them realize they can't be without one another. It's almost like Shonda and the gang are trying to see which characters haven't slept together yet. Jackson's single and Jo's single, so let's put them together. What's next? Schmitt figuring out he's bisexual and falling for Helm?  It's things like this which is why they need to let the show end. They no longer have any original ideas. Just who can sleep with who and one big disaster each season.

This is a bit of a tangent, but related.  Back in the day, I watched Melrose Place.  In the mid-late 90s, when Melrose was on the air, the internet was still pretty much in its infancy, and there were few, if any boards to discuss tv shows, like this board or even the IMDb boards (RIP).  So a main venue of discussion was the Usenet (remember them?!?) newsgroup alt.tv.melrose-place.  One of the most popular threads on that group was "Melrose Sex Tree" 😂 It was updated often with many posts.  I've always thought there should be a Grey's Sex Tree thread on this group lol

[Snow Fairy]

I would have loved the plot more if we did not know Meredith is going to survive. No way they are killing a main character now, and like this.

So everything feels dragged to me.

Isn't this the first season Tom got promoted to series regular? I doubt they would kill him right now then

[Bort]

48 minutes ago, transitfan said:

This is a bit of a tangent, but related.  Back in the day, I watched Melrose Place.  In the mid-late 90s, when Melrose was on the air, the internet was still pretty much in its infancy, and there were few, if any boards to discuss tv shows, like this board or even the IMDb boards (RIP).  So a main venue of discussion was the Usenet (remember them?!?) newsgroup alt.tv.melrose-place.  One of the most popular threads on that group was "Melrose Sex Tree" 😂 It was updated often with many posts.  I've always thought there should be a Grey's Sex Tree thread on this group lol

Heh, feel free to start one, it sounds fun! I do remember the Usenet groups, I kind of miss them.