S04.E05: Fagan

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

As Thatcher's policies create rising unemployment, a desperate man breaks into the palace, where he finds Elizabeth's bedroom and awakens her for a talk.

Dropping on Sunday, November 15, 2020.

[Roseanna]

Finally we are shown how ordinary people lived in Thatcher's Britain! 

[dubbel zout]

"You can always talk to the queen." LOL. 

I really hope it wasn't that easy for Michael Fagan to get into and around BP. Good grief. My apartment building, with just a buzzer, apparently is more secure.

I think the Fagan break-in was what revealed to the world at large that the queen and Prince Philip had separate bedrooms.

[Bananna]

Ah, so here is this season's "Could Be a TV Movie" episode.

I'm assuming this episode is how the show will address the negative impact of Thatcher's policies, rather than keep it a recurring theme. Which, if that's the case, is an interesting idea on how to deal with it.

Overall, I wanted to like this episode more than I actually did. There was lots of stuff that I enjoyed, for example the contrast of the adoring crowds of handpicked members of the public seen by the Queen to the dole queue at the job centre. I also liked the decision not to feature Thatcher, aside from on the TV, until the very end of the episode. However, I didn't find it that engaging and focusing on an individual doesn't really capture the fracturing of communities that was a large impact of Thatcherism.

[Penman61]

Did...did they just show the Queen micturating?

[TexasGal]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

"You can always talk to the queen." LOL. 

I really hope it wasn't that easy for Michael Fagan to get into and around BP. Good grief. My apartment building, with just a buzzer, apparently is more secure.

I think the Fagan break-in was what revealed to the world at large that the queen and Prince Philip had separate bedrooms.

I knew that someone had gotten into her bedroom, but I had no idea that it was the second time.  It cracked me up that Philip was so blasé about the first break in - he drank a cheap bottle of wine, how droll!!  He broke that ugly vase with the worms, good riddance!

Off to google Fagan - they made it seem like he had such a calm, lovely chat with her.  

[peridot]

I hope those security guys were fired.  If someone breaks in once, I could maybe understand.  But the same guy broke in twice, and it looks like they didn't try to ramp up security at all after the first time!

Was Fagan mentally ill, or was he just depressed/fed-up?  The system kept bouncing him between two departments about child visitation, and his wife's new boyfriend seemed like an ass. 

It was pretty creepy to be sitting on the end of her bed.

[Ellaria]

8 minutes ago, peridot said:

It was pretty creepy to be sitting on the end of her bed.

Yes! The fear of waking up and finding a stranger in your bedroom is very real whether you live in Buckingham Palace or a split level home in suburbia.

Kudos to Elizabeth for handling it so well. It’s almost laughable that security failed to detect Fagan on two separate occasions. He seemed to find her bedroom rather easily the first time.

Of course, Phillip comments on the cheap wine and the ugly, broken vase. He never misses an opportunity to demonstrate his perceived superiority. 

[swanpride]

Quote

Off to google Fagan - they made it seem like he had such a calm, lovely chat with her

Yeah, the chat is made up according to Fagan himself. Apparently he went the first one drank the wine, waiting for someone to come and arrest him. The second time the Queen and a maid basically redirected him to a pantry by offering him cigarettes. I guess the break ins were some sort of call for help, but it doesn't sound like he wanted to speak with the queen. He just wanted the attention.

[Spartan Girl]

How did I NOT hear about this incident before?!

Even though what he did was messed up, I couldn’t help feeling bad for Fagin.

[Roseanna]

Fagan really spoke intelligently although when he spoke that there was no more the state, did he mean the society (for Thatcher said irl that there is no such thing as society, only individuals)?

I can't understand how Thatcher could think that "collective responsibility" is an old-fashioned idea? Didn't she know that during the war the soldiers don't fight for patriotism but for their comrades?   

Thatcher who had earlier cut the budget didn't only find enough money for war, but also for a victory parade!

[swanpride]

Thatcher, being pretty much a self-made women herself, suffered under the delusion that success is purely based on merit, and that people who aren't successful are just too lazy to truly try. In addition she didn't believe in "propping up dying industries" like coal mining, which isn't necessarily a wrong stance, but she never really bothered to think about what closing the coal mines would do to the communities dependent on them. There was a need to create new opportunities for the people living there, but Thatcher was instead speaking of "managed decline" of those cities...which was actually halted by EU money, but that is more something for the history discussion.

Basically she was a fan of neoliberalism, the notion that the state shouldn't interfere in the markets at all because they regulate themselves. Back then it was a popular theory, but it has been thoroughly disproven by now through reality.

 

[Helena Dax]

From a viewer's perspective the breaking and entering was amazing, but I'm sure the Queen felt very scared and unsettled. Loved Philip's reaction. He may be a snob, but at least he doesn't have temper tantrums anymore. (Ok, only when his uncle died and he was awful to Charles).

Thatcher wanted to be like Reagan, I think. 

[Lillith]

As a Gen-Xer who loved alternative music I was glad to hear some of those 80s anti-Thatcher deep cuts. Britian in the 70s and 80s was in rough shape and I'm glad this episide used the Fagan incident to touch on all of that. We get such a glossy view on this show and I'm appreciating the notice paid to how many Britons lived and suffered during this time. Last season I felt like Olivia Colman didn't quite fit in her performance, but she's amazing this season. Her attempting to show calm and then swooning after he was taken away was brilliant and so humanizing. 

[Roseanna]

19 hours ago, peridot said:

Was Fagan mentally ill, or was he just depressed/fed-up?  The system kept bouncing him between two departments about child visitation, and his wife's new boyfriend seemed like an ass. 

It was evident that after lost work, family and self-respect he needed mental help of some sort. But he spoke and acted so intelligently in Elizabeth's bedroom that I became to suspect that the diagnosis of schizophrenia were at least partly political, to save the face of the government. 

I don't want to belittle the situation where the security of the Queen failed, but she was in no danger.  Therefore, I find it hilarious that MPs were so shocked - and sad that Thatcher seemed quite unmoved when Elizabeth spoke about the numbers of unemployed.  Although one can't make necessary tough decisions if one lets herself overwhelmed by emotions, but Thatcher seems to have her fixed ideas that she never lets herself to suspect.   

[tennisgurl]

Tell me that someone was fired after this whole mess, those breaches in security are just embarrassing. They're just lucky that Fagan just wanted to talk/get attention and didnt do anything worse. 

It seemed like Fagan was probably having some kind of break down, but I think he did this out of a desperate need to be heard and to get some attention in a world that had seemingly forgotten him, not so much that he was seriously mentally ill, especially as, according to the after episode info, he was only institutionalized for three months. I am glad that we got more of what normal people are feelin about all of this, even if those feelings are not great. 

Thatcher, being a self made woman who's father owned his own shop, basically comes at the economy and the societal issues it created like anyone who deserves to succeed will just do it, while anyone not succeeding must be lazy or stupid or a trouble maker, so why should anyone help them? She and her father did it, so why shouldn't everyone else? Even if your feeding several children or have a disability or are elderly or are just getting a lot of bad breaks, its all clearly your fault for not trying hard enough if your struggling. As is something of a theme with Thatcher, her bootstraps self made women background, while admirable in many ways, also left her feeling like she rose above those things so much, that she wont help any other the other people like her dealing with the same challenges because she is "better" than them. She is one of the only women in higher government, but has disdain for most women, especially women in politics, and does little to help other women. She broke class barriers, going from a working class shop keepers daughter to PM, but looks down on the working class as whiners and trouble makers who aren't as smart or hard working as her and she does little to help them, and even makes it worse. Rather ironically, considering how offended she gets when she is looked down on or laughed at for being a woman or being from a modest background, she does the same thing all of the time. 

I guess they don't have the budget to help people eat, but they DO have money for a big victory parade for Maggie!

[swanpride]

Granted, the victory parade was partly political. The whole thing was about narrative of the UK being "back" as powerful nation thanks to the great Maggie Thatcher. To be frank, I am not sure if she had even made it to another term without this kind of nonsense. So the parade was more about preserving power and less about her own ego.

[3 is enough]

On a more shallow note I feel like they made Margaret Thatcher’s hair too big. When she was talking to the Queen and they were both in the shot you could see that her hair was twice the volume of Elizabeth’s.  Gillian Anderson is quite tiny and she is positively dwarfed by that hair.  

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

On a more shallow note I feel like they made Margaret Thatcher’s hair too big. When she was talking to the Queen and they were both in the shot you could see that her hair was twice the volume of Elizabeth’s.  Gillian Anderson is quite tiny and she is positively dwarfed by that hair.  

Her hair was pretty much like the show and in later years, it got even bigger.  

 

[3 is enough]

I stand corrected I guess.  I just don’t remember it being quite so big.  She would have felt right at home in Texas. 😂

[WatchrTina]

8 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

She would have felt right at home in Texas. 😂

The higher the hair, the closer to God!  🙂

 

[Claire85]

Anyone else have a “Maggie, Maggie, Maggie! Oi, oi, oi!” ear worm going on? No, just me? 

[bijoux]

I think this might be my favorite episode so far. It just kept me engrossed the whole time. Nice mention of Fagan being like the Fool in telling the truth, and then have Thatcher receiving military salute instead of the sovreign. She's coming after your job too. 

Maybe he should have been James Bond considering the ease with which he came into the palace and located Liz's room. 

Their conversation was terrific. Right down to him critiquing the state of the palace. 

[Lazlo]

I think they had a tricky path to walk on Thatcher and the Falklands in this episode and just about managed to do it successfully, showing it both as a propaganda victory that Thatcher readily took advantage of and as a genuinely popular war.  

[swanpride]

I think what did the trick was the scene at the Falklands, because it showed how ridiculous the whole thing truly was.

[benteen]

That's IT for the Falkland War on this show?  Just a bunch of stuff being talked about offscreen?  I have to say that's been a real disappointment so far this season and bizarre for a number of reasons.  The Falklands turned out to be a popular war (which we see onscreen) and was important in securing Thatcher and the Conservatives a reelection victory.  I think we could have gotten at least a full episode on it instead of misadventures of Denis Thatcher, which happened a few months before the war.

What I find bizarre is they completely ignored the fact that Prince Andrew served in this war.  I know, it's discussed by Andrew and Elizabeth in the previous episode but it's then completely ignored in this one.  This show has often discussed how the Queen and her family live apart from their subjects.  Well, this was a time when the royal family had a stake in things because like so many of their subjects, they had a son who was serving in the war.  Why would the show possibly pass up a chance to explore this?  

Then, they decide to give the country bumpkin routine to Queen Elizabeth, who apparently knows nothing about a victory parade that England is having for the war they just one.  You remember that one, right?  The war one of her SONS actually served in?

That being said, I was surprised with how I found myself sympathizing for Fagen.  That was a terrific performance by Tom Brooke and his scene with Olivia Colman was a real highlight of the season.

Edited November 20, 2020 by benteen

[AimingforYoko]

I was going to be disappointed if they didn't have "Stand Down, Margaret", and then they came through with the closing credits.

The political parallels between the UK and the US in the '80s are eerie.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

 

23 hours ago, benteen said:

That's IT for the Falklands War on this show?

What I find bizarre is they completely ignored the fact that Prince Andrew served in this war.

That being said, I was surprised with how I found myself sympathizing for Fagen.  That was a terrific performance by Tom Brooke and his scene with Olivia Colman was a real highlight of the season.

Some higher-up on the show (might have been Morgan himself, but I'm not sure) defended the exclusion of Ann's marriage and attempted kidnapping by saying this is a show about those who wear the Crown, not their other children and siblings, and we have something similar here. Bottom line is that 10 hours only leaves room to tell X number of stories in depth.

As for Fagan himself:

• Out of work and poor, but somehow finds money for cigarettes
• Rude and obnoxious to the lady at the Unemployment office who is only asking a question SHE IS REQUIRED TO ASK (as someone who used to work in Technical Support and had to hear lots of dumb jokes and snide comments about stupid required questions, this really grated on me -- yes, we know the question is dumb, but we have to ask it, and being snide with us will take more time and energy on your part than answering it, and you'll still have to answer it anyway. So just answer the goddamn question so we can move the fuck on)
• Stalks his ex-wife and tries to start a fistfight with her new man
• Goes to his children's school and actually does start a fistfight with him in front of his (Fagan's) children, thus putting them in the middle of something they had zero say in
• And that's even before he breaks into someone's home. TWICE.

The episode obviously wants me to sympathize with him. No.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[benteen]

I understand that this is about who wears the crown but having a daughter kidnapped and having a son serve in a war DOES affect the person who wears the crown.  Certainly more than Thatcher's idiot son getting "lost" in the desert.  Andrew's service gave them a personal stake in the war that was being fought.  The show constantly talks about how the royal family isn't relatable to their subjects and well,this is a time when Elizabeth and Philip could relate to the families who had service members fighting in the Falklands.

Fagen isn't sympathetic, I agree but the performance of the actor won me over.

It's mind-boggling that he was able to break into the palace not once but TWICE.  Heads should have rolled the first time and 10 Downing Street was absolutely in the right to have thrown a fit over that.  It happens one time, they don't tell Downing Street and then they allow it to happen AGAIN.  

Edited November 19, 2020 by benteen

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Some higher-up on the show (might have been Morgan himself, but I'm not sure) defended the exclusion of Ann's marriage and attempted kidnapping by saying this is a show about those who wear the Crown, not their other children and siblings, and we have something similar here. Bottom line is that 10 hours only leaves room to tell X number of stories in depth.

Interesting to know. I guess I don't agree with the showrunners about which subjects are relevant to those who wear the Crown.  

I also wish that they'd given themselves more hours per season to work with considering so many interesting stories end up not being told. Obviously they can't get to everything but would 12 hours per season really have broken the bank? Or stretch the minds of the showrunners creatively? I guess this is a little OT but it kind of annoys me how 10 episodes seems to now be the standard for quality shows when it used to be 12-13.  

[dubbel zout]

8 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I guess this is a little OT but it kind of annoys me how 10 episodes seems to now be the standard for quality shows when it used to be 12-13.

Every episode costs money, and The Crown costs a fortune.

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Interesting to know. I guess I don't agree with the showrunners about which subjects are relevant to those who wear the Crown.  

I also wish that they'd given themselves more hours per season to work with considering so many interesting stories end up not being told. Obviously they can't get to everything but would 12 hours per season really have broken the bank? Or stretch the minds of the showrunners creatively? I guess this is a little OT but it kind of annoys me how 10 episodes seems to now be the standard for quality shows when it used to be 12-13.  

I think this show is that expensive.  Recreating Buckingham Palace, Kensington Palace, Balmoral, Highgrove, the Royal Yacht, etc is not cheap.  Then you have the wardrobe budget to contend with.  Top all of that off with the big name actors who need to be paid.  We are lucky we get 10 episodes a season.  It could have been 6 or 8.

[Avaleigh]

42 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I think this show is that expensive.  Recreating Buckingham Palace, Kensington Palace, Balmoral, Highgrove, the Royal Yacht, etc is not cheap.  Then you have the wardrobe budget to contend with.  Top all of that off with the big name actors who need to be paid.  We are lucky we get 10 episodes a season.  It could have been 6 or 8.

Fair enough. I guess I'm being too greedy.

[Brn2bwild]

Can someone explain to me why Fagin was initially prevented from seeing his kids (besides the fact that he seemed generally unstable)?  I heard something in one scene about him wanting to take care of the "damages," but the person he needed to speak to wasn't there.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, Brn2bwild said:

Can someone explain to me why Fagin was initially prevented from seeing his kids (besides the fact that he seemed generally unstable)?  I heard something in one scene about him wanting to take care of the "damages," but the person he needed to speak to wasn't there.

His apartment needed work in order for him to get his kids.  He went to the appropriate government office to get money for this, but was denied because he wasn't the primary leaseholder.   He was stuck in a bureaucratic loop where each agency could not help him and kept on referring him to another.  

[Neurochick]

On 11/16/2020 at 4:06 PM, swanpride said:

Thatcher, being pretty much a self-made women herself, suffered under the delusion that success is purely based on merit, and that people who aren't successful are just too lazy to truly try.

I really don't believe any person is truly self made. 

There's always some type of help, if not from parents then other family members, or a teacher, or a member of the clergy. 

Maybe not financial help but certainly emotional help.

Thatcher had everything ass backward.  She thought her mother was weak for wanting to be a housewife. 

Sometimes I think the truly strong person is the one who gets off the hamster wheel, because even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat.

[Neurochick]

13 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Out of work and poor, but somehow finds money for cigarettes

I didn't know poor people weren't allowed to smoke, good to know.

 

13 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Stalks his ex-wife and tries to start a fistfight with her new man

Actually he was in the pub first and her new "man" started the fight.

 

13 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Goes to his children's school and actually does start a fistfight with him in front of his (Fagan's) children, thus putting them in the middle of something they had zero say in

Actually once again the new "man" was the one who started the fight.  He left a lot to be desired as well. 

 

13 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Rude and obnoxious to the lady at the Unemployment office who is only asking a question SHE IS REQUIRED TO ASK

You're so right about that.  I used to tell the foreign students who had to go to the social security office to be the FIRST one on line.  People in government offices are nicer in the morning because they haven't been harassed by assholes during the day.

A good article about why poor people seem to make bad decisions.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Neurochick

[Umbelina]

OK, had to check, the price of cigarettes rose in 1982 to 97 p a pack.  Just FYI.

[formerlyfreedom]

Episode here please - this is not the place to discuss things that did not happen in the episode, including the 1980 American political situation. Posts have been removed, and warnings will be the next step. Thank you.

[ProudMary]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

His apartment needed work in order for him to get his kids.  He went to the appropriate government office to get money for this, but was denied because he wasn't the primary leaseholder.   He was stuck in a bureaucratic loop where each agency could not help him and kept on referring him to another.  

Yes. His ex-wife was the primary leaseholder and she wouldn't speak to him, which is why he went to the school--knowing she'd be there to pick up the kids--so he could talk to her about how he wanted to fix the apartment but was caught up in red tape, and ended up in a fight with her "new man." Whether that's what happened IRL, I don't know but that's what was shown to the audience.

[merylinkid]

On 11/16/2020 at 3:59 PM, Roseanna said:

I can't understand how Thatcher could think that "collective responsibility" is an old-fashioned idea?

To the QUEEN no less whose life is about duty rather than individual wants/desires/needs.

 

On 11/18/2020 at 10:26 AM, benteen said:

Then, they decide to give the country bumpkin routine to Queen Elizabeth, who apparently knows nothing about a victory parade that England is having for the war they just one.  You remember that one, right?  The war one of her SONS actually served in?

I know RIGHT.   The titular head of the nation is not told there is a victory parade?    Even if they didn't have her taking the salute, she would have been told about it.   Because EVERYTHING the government does is done in her name.

 

On 11/19/2020 at 9:50 PM, Neurochick said:

Actually he was in the pub first and her new "man" started the fight

He went to the pub to talk to his ex.   She asked him to leave.   He wouldn't.   He spotted the new man and started trash talking.   The new man tried to ignore it, but eventually Fagan hit a nerve and the fight was on.   Fagan could have  ... just left.    Same with going to the school.   He didn't try to talk to the ex-wife.   He stared at them until he saw the daughter being friendly with the new man.   You know the one with the job who provides for Fagan's kids.   Then he went over to start ANOTHER fight.   In front of his kids and all the kids there.   I have ZERO sympathy for Fagan.    Sure he was caught in bureaucratic hell, but starting fights with the new man was not the way to handle it.   It was just being controlling over his ex.    By being such an ass, even if he fixed the apartment, he was not seeing the kids because it was clear he didn't know how to behave around them.   

I loved how every time the Queen complained about them increasing security (why Fagan was able to get in a second time, the Queen vetoed increased security.   They can't force more on her, you have to work with what the protectee will allow), Philip had a look on his face like "Yeah, you're the Queen, we need to keep you alive, so please accept more security for my sake at least."   

Also at the end when the Queen and Philip about talking about Fagan getting her bedroom, they have that funny moment about what it would have been like if it had wound up in Philip's room instead.   We need to see more humorous moments between them.   It is well known one of the things the Queen loves above Philip is he makes her laugh.   He relaxes her.   Which is what she needs after a hard day of being Sovereign.   Instead we get philosophical discussions about being a parent, or whatever the topic of the week is.   

[Neurochick]

To me this episode showed what a horrible and ignorant person Thatcher was.  That speech to the Queen...If someone said that nonsense to me, I'd suggest they go back to school.  Not everybody has the same abilities; not everyone can or should own their own business.  Just because someone isn't in the 1% doesn't mean they should starve.

7 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

He went to the pub to talk to his ex.   She asked him to leave.   He wouldn't. 

Why should he have left?  He had every right to be there.  And the "boyfriend" could have walked away too.

[merylinkid]

5 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

To me this episode showed what a horrible and ignorant person Thatcher was.  That speech to the Queen...If someone said that nonsense to me, I'd suggest they go back to school.  Not everybody has the same abilities; not everyone can or should own their own business.  Just because someone isn't in the 1% doesn't mean they should starve.

Why should he have left?  He had every right to be there.  And the "boyfriend" could have walked away too.

Actually he didn't.   She worked there.   It was her job.   When he first showed up she said "You shouldn't be here."   She made it clear she did NOT want him to come to her job.   He has no right to force a conversation with someone who doesn't.   The boyfriend was just hanging with his mates not causing trouble until Fagan walked in and tried to force a conversation.   Fagan saw the boyfriend looking over and seeming concerned then demanded answers of his ex.   She told him it was the one with a job and taking care of Fagan's kids.    

Sure unemployment was high in Britain at the time.   But something tells me, being out of a job was nothing new with Fagan.   He would always be in between jobs and when he got one fired shortly thereafter.   Always blaming others.    People who have amicable break ups don't need to go to their ex's job to demand a conversation.    There was clearly a history of fighting and the ex was done with it.   But Fagan wasn't.

Could the new man have walked away?   Sure.   He even tried.   He tried to ignore Fagan's trash talk.   He even told him to go home and stop bothering his ex.   But Fagan kept pushing it.   Finally the new man had enough.   

Fagan is typical abusive behavior.    I can't have you, no one can.  How dare you move on after we break up.   *I* tell you how things are going to go.   Then of course when things go badly it's "look what you made me do."   Nothing is ever his fault.

[Blakeston]

I really wish the queen had said to Thatcher, "You must have been so angry when we sent those rescue teams to Algeria, when your son needed to stand on his own two feet!

(I also wish someone had asked Peter Morgan, "If the show is only supposed to be about those who wear the crown, then why did you subject us to an episode about how Prince Philip felt about the moon landing?")

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

Actually he didn't.   She worked there.   It was her job.   When he first showed up she said "You shouldn't be here."   She made it clear she did NOT want him to come to her job.   He has no right to force a conversation with someone who doesn't.   The boyfriend was just hanging with his mates not causing trouble until Fagan walked in and tried to force a conversation.   Fagan saw the boyfriend looking over and seeming concerned then demanded answers of his ex.   She told him it was the one with a job and taking care of Fagan's kids.    

Was she working in the pub? I got the impression she and her boyfriend were there to have some drinks. And wasn't he the first to get confrontational in front of the kids? Fagan wasn't without blame, but this dude seemed to have a really violent streak. Mrs Fagan doesn't seem to have the best taste in men is all I'm saying. Although Fagan seemed depressed to me, so he's harder for me to judge. 

[JudyObscure]

 

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Why should he have left?  He had every right to be there.  And the "boyfriend" could have walked away too.

I'm in total agreement with Neurochick!  With or without mental illness going on I thought Fagan was heartbreaking. 

He was unable to get his usual painting jobs because the economy was so bad, so his wife left him for a guy with deeper pockets.  She got custody of the kids, so she got their apartment.  He couldn't afford a decent apartment on his own, so his kids couldn't come to visit.  He couldn't go to his usual pub for the small comforts of a pint and a smoke, because that's where she and the new guy liked to hang out.

No, he shouldn't have been rude to the woman at the unemployment line, but I think when they kept showing him riding the bus around town and watching his kids from a distance, they were showing us how his depression was worsening so that when he broke into the palace, I saw it as a desperate suicide by cop situation.

Edited November 21, 2020 by JudyObscure

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

 

I'm in total agreement with Neurochick!  With or without mental illness going on I thought Fagan was heartbreaking. 

He was unable to get his usual painting jobs because the economy was so bad, so his wife left him for a guy with deeper pockets.  She got custody of the kids, so she got their apartment.  He couldn't afford a decent apartment on his own, so his kids couldn't come to visit.  He couldn't go to his usual pub for the small comforts of a pint and a smoke, because that's where she and the new guy liked to hang out.

No, he shouldn't have been rude to the woman at the unemployment line, but I think when they kept showing him riding the bus around town and watching his kids from a distance, they were showing us how his depression was worsening so that when he broke into the palace, I saw it as a desperate suicide by cop situation.

Fagan was living in their old apartment.   The ex moved out,  but kept her name on the lease, or whatever the British equivalent is.  She knew he could not see their kids because the apartment was not up to child service's standards.   She refused to go through the correct council channels to get her name off of the lease so Fagan could put his name on and get the necessary repairs paid for.  

[qtpye]

This is a bizarre thing to say, but I find Olivia Coleman as the queen kind of adorable.

I actually though Fagan would find her sleeping with a little crown on her head snuggling with a corgi and a stuffed pony.

[chocolatine]

13 hours ago, merylinkid said:

He stared at them until he saw the daughter being friendly with the new man.   You know the one with the job who provides for Fagan's kids.   Then he went over to start ANOTHER fight.   In front of his kids and all the kids there. 

Watch that scene again. The new man was berating the daughter, and when she turned her back to him, he grabbed her by the neck and shoved her. That's when Fagan lost it and started the fistfight. It was the wrong way to react and ultimately got him cut off from his children completely, but I understood his impulse in the moment.

Edited November 22, 2020 by chocolatine

[DrSparkles]

Olivia Colman, after they got Fagan out of there, her reaction was amazing.