S04.E05: Fagan

[swanpride]

For some reason the one thing I remembered about the incident was the blood on the bed. When they mentioned that in the show, it triggered my memory.

[Lorna Mae]

12 hours ago, buttersister said:

Morgan used him as a Thatcher basher. Not bad shorthand (and really well played by the actor) for the BF mess she made for millions. 

 

It was excellent shorthand, IMO. I'm American, but I was a teenager during that era. What we saw of this guy, whether or not it was true to his life, matched up with the movies Rita, Sue and Bob Too and Riff-Raff*, and the Adrian Mole books, and the TV show The Young Ones, where Rik Mayall's character was constantly ranting about Thatcher. Someone upthread summed it up pretty well, how Fagan was caught in a bureaucratic loop, along with so many others. 

*Early Robert Carlyle! 

[BitterApple]

The funniest part of the episode for me was Fagan pointing out all the deferred maintenance at BP. "So posh, yet so rundown." Oooh, the shade!

[swanpride]

I actually took it as foreshadowing...the Fassade is slowly falling apart, so to speak.

[Aliferously]

Well, I admired his gumption at least.

I vaguely knew about this, but I didn't know that he succeeded twice. I kept wondering about the cameras and why there weren't any at the back of the building whatsoever. Turns out, BP wasn't guarded better then the average office building at night. You'd think there would be more then one security post or more then one person behind the monitors at any given time.

There's a gift room in Buckingham Palace. Which amused me greatly.

I thought the actor playing Fagan did a stellar job. He did the desperation and the slow descent into Fuck It All very well.

Loved him pointing out the decrepit state of the palace too. And that the Queen did not have an electric toothbrush (did many people have those in the mid 80's?)

I thought Philip was very amused by the whole situation, even after the second incident. 

 

 

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, Aliferously said:

Loved him pointing out the decrepit state of the palace too. And that the Queen did not have an electric toothbrush (did many people have those in the mid 80's?)

They've been around quite a while. 

Back in the late 60s, hubby and I were invited to Christmas dinner at the home of a man who - with his two brothers who lived nearby in Southern California - was originally from the area of Nebraska near where my hubby grew up.  Funniest story at Christmas dinner - Brother 1 bought Brothers 2 and 3 and their wives battery-powered toothbrushes for Christmas.  Brother 2 bought Brothers 1 and 3 and their wives the same.  And you know the rest of the story - what Brother 3 bought. 

Too bad none of them gifted their spares to the Royal Family.  LOL.

[andromeda331]

I'm not sure if Fagan had mental problems or depression. I did like his remark about just being poor. I liked seeing what was going on in London among normal people. The contrast of it with the Royals at the garden party with the approved picked guested and list of things to talk about and the unemployment line. Because of the current unexpected unemployment Fagan's storyline really hit home. Also due to my own issues I understand the frustration of trying to get someone to listen and being bounced around the different agencies that are suppose to help. I liked Fagan pointing out later that the Queen never met normal people because everyone's on their best behavior and as we seen give a list of what to talk about. Which Margaret also awesomely pointed out at the garden party. 

While I get the Queen not wanting to notify Thatcher of the breaking in there clearly was a need for improvement with their security. Fagan managed to easily get over the fence and cross the grounds undetected. A window was unlocked and no alarm or was it off either way its not good and he managed to wander around for awhile and no one noticed. The second time he broke a window and no one noticed? Elizabeth calls for the police officer that was suppose to be guarding her door and he wasn't there. 

I liked that she at first assumed it was someone else. It made sense. She did a good job reacting to someone in her bedroom. Her scared, fear and then listening. She should have made a run for it while he was in the bathroom but then of course we wouldn't have had them talking. It was a good scene. I liked him remarking on how rundown the palace was. I know it didn't really happen that way but its was nice to see her talking with one of her real subjects. I liked him thanking her at the end and the hand shake. Then her following up with Thatcher about the situation. It was nice to see she was taking what he said to heart. 

I'm disappointed this is all we really get of the Falkand War. I thought we'd get more of it too. Especially since Elizabeth's son was in the war. Not one moment of Elizabeth worrying over her son. Using it to show they were all in the same boat. Not just the start and now its over. I don't really understand why Morgan skip over things that would be interesting because they did effect the royal family. Thatcher annoyed me with her pull yourself up by the boots 'tude. Not that it surprised me. She's really incapable of seeing any other point of view except her own and her father. 

[RedbirdNelly]

I felt badly for Fagan. I thought they did a good job of showing how one bad experience or mistake can lead to another and then to another until things really fall apart. He is responsible for his mistakes but sometimes we tend to act like people just wake up and decide to do something incredibly stupid. Sometimes they do but more often big mistakes are the result of small steps in the wrong direction. Once you are on the path, getting back on track especially when you lack funds can be really hard.

[Milburn Stone]

Moving episode. Made its points.

In addition to agreeing with the consensus here that Fagan's monologue in real life was nothing like the show depicted, I also wonder how unlike the show's depiction was the Queen's real life response to him. In the show, she's a brave and sympathetic listener, made better and more empathetic going forward for having had the experience. In real life, she might have been catatonic with fear the whole time. We'll never know, will we?

[PeterPirate]

On 11/21/2020 at 9:25 PM, chocolatine said:

Watch that scene again. The new man was berating the daughter, and when she turned her back to him, he grabbed her by the neck and shoved her. That's when Fagan lost it and started the fistfight. It was the wrong way to react and ultimately got him cut off from his children completely, but I understood his impulse in the moment.

This got me to watch that scene pretty carefully.  I didn't see any misconduct by the guy.  When the girl turned he patted her on the back and told her not to go too high on the swings.  As always, mileage varies.  

 

On 11/18/2020 at 6:32 PM, AimingforYoko said:

I was going to be disappointed if they didn't have "Stand Down, Margaret", and then they came through with the closing credits.

 

That song takes me back to my college days.  

Edited December 2, 2020 by PeterPirate

[Razzberry]

On 11/21/2020 at 8:56 AM, merylinkid said:

Fagan is typical abusive behavior.    I can't have you, no one can.  How dare you move on after we break up.   *I* tell you how things are going to go.   Then of course when things go badly it's "look what you made me do."   Nothing is ever his fault.

His stalking the ex-wife and belligerent behavior is all too common for abusers.  He's all about power and control and it's disturbing that the show tries to make him some kind of folk hero whose behavior is really the result of the economy, when in fact these are entirely different issues. 

[Umbelina]

Fagan has changed his tale so many times during the years, it's impossible to know what really happened, unless the Queen speaks out, which obviously, she will not.

Still, for a show?  It worked very well, showed the effects of Thatcher's policies on common people, and it interested me all the way through, frankly, much more than the Falkland's bullshit.  Contrasting the money and effort, and lives spent on a (kind of silly) war, including the expensive parade afterward?  Showed many issues, including the public support and "pride" in that distant war, even while so many were suffering at home.

That actor should at least be nominated for an award, he was amazing as Fagan, and it was a very favorable view of the queen as well.

[AllyB]

On 12/2/2020 at 7:54 PM, Razzberry said:

His stalking the ex-wife and belligerent behavior is all too common for abusers.  He's all about power and control and it's disturbing that the show tries to make him some kind of folk hero whose behavior is really the result of the economy, when in fact these are entirely different issues. 

100%. I don't know what the real Fagan's story was. But what we were shown here was a very clearly abusive man continuing a campaign of abuse against his ex wife. What's scariest to me is that I don't think the writers, producers, actors, etc actually know that that's what they were portraying. 

[b2H]

On 11/21/2020 at 10:36 AM, merylinkid said:

I know RIGHT.   The titular head of the nation is not told there is a victory parade?    Even if they didn't have her taking the salute, she would have been told about it.   Because EVERYTHING the government does is done in her name.

 

This goes back to the person, whose name I forget, that suggested to the Queen that her role might not go on, if Thatcher had her way.  Maybe Thatcher becoming President and making the Queen irrelevant.

[Deskisamess]

I didn't like this episode at all. I realize much of what makes up the show is fiction, but this was just drawn out and boring. The shining moment was the Queen's reaction after he was taken away.

I'm fairly over listening to the Iron Lady. Is that really how she spoke, all hunched over and slow like that?

[bunnyface]

I know it's all fiction and there is no way to know what was truly said, but if the Queen actually did say anything like BP "is rather too like a prison," I want to just bang my head on the wall.  I don't personally or politically or existentially wish her any harm, but also think a week in a REAL prison would be very interesting experience for her.  

With the life she's lived, there's almost no way for her not to be out of touch with normal people and normal life.  But golly, at least pretend a little.

[Camera One]

I think this episode did a job of taking a character we had never seen before and telling his story in an engaging way.  I continue to be pleasantly surprised that Elizabeth is presented in a human and even admirable way, after the robot of Season 3.  Even knowing that the conversation between Fagan and the Queen was made up to conveniently make the point of this episode, it was still well done and enjoyable to watch.  Elizabeth and Thatcher's conversation was also quite dynamic.

[Magnumfangirl]

On 12/8/2020 at 5:55 PM, AllyB said:

I don't know what the real Fagan's story was. But what we were shown here was a very clearly abusive man continuing a campaign of abuse against his ex wife. What's scariest to me is that I don't think the writers, producers, actors, etc actually know that that's what they were portraying. 

I sort of agree.  The fact that a government agency was dictating when he could see his children is proof that there is more to his story than a "guy out of work."

Was the Queen really not invited to the victory parade?  Hasn't the Queen always decided when the weekly meetings were over?  Maggie looking at her watch and saying "gotta go" seemed really farfetched.

GA still sucks as Thatcher.  Her performance is like an SNL parody, but some of it is the ridiculous dialogue she's having to recite.  

The Queen may have to keep her political persuasions a secret, but the writers and producers of this show sure aren't.

[Fool to cry]

The first time I heard about Fagan was reading about it in William Goldman's book "Adventures in the Screen Trade". He used it as example as something in real life that if someone made it up for a screenplay nobody would believe it!  A man just easily breaks in to Buckingham Palace to and into the Queen's bedroom the way he did seems incredible.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

WWLD - What would Lascelles do?  How many heads would have rolled after the first break-in?  How many instant changes, beyond the securing of that particular window would have been in place?  He would have brooked no nonsense from Elizabeth Regina about her own safety.  I do believe he would be happy to avoid notification to the government, though.  That would give him a freer hand with which to operate. 

If the Crown wanted a salute, she could have arranged for a special welcome for the conquering military.  It appears she never considered it.  How is that Thatcher's fault?

It truly was a startling moment when the PM ended the audience.  I am guessing that really happened on at least one occasion.  If not, that is a liberty Morgan should not have taken.  I will say the philosophical division between the PM and the Crown was well outlined in this conversation.

I was fascinated to see Philip becoming enamored with Thatcher's methodologies and resolve.  He was so very opposed to her upon her election.  It seemed he was all about the victories in the Falklands.  I wonder if the door were left ajar on a given evening where he voiced support for Maggie.