Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER

dubbel zout

S01.E02: Exchanges

Recommended Posts


On 10/23/2020 at 8:00 PM, kieyra said:

It’s interesting how there’s a sense of dread hanging over the first two episodes—you assume something really bad is going to happen to her at the orphanage, or with the adopted father, but the sexual assault threat never materializes. Or not yet.

Oh good, I'm not the only one watching with a knot in her stomach.  I'm engrossed by the show but yeah, I feel like there is a threat to our heroine lurking behind every corner.  I've also worried that the janitor is somehow going to be falsely accused of having done something inappropriate to Beth.

Edited by WatchrTina
  • Love 12
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

Shallow note: I don’t know the actress who plays Beth, but she looks like a child of Natalie Dormer and Bjork, and the camera loves her.

  • Love 14

Share this post


Link to post

This show has hooked me completely. And yeah, I'm not a chess fan either! I love how Beth is very flawed but you root for her hard. When that dude wouldn't stop yawning I was like KICK HIS ASS!

  • Love 20

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know anything about chess either, but there's a certain beauty in the way it's portrayed here.

Thirteen? Seriously? Ana Taylor Joy (I think that's her name) is probably portraying the most gawky teenager ever.

Um, shouldn't Jolene have reached her majority at this point? Not sure how much time passed between the overdose and the adoption but it must be at least five years. Jolene must have been at least fifteen when Beth arrived so this phases me. 

  • Love 4
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Aliferously said:

Jolene must have been at least fifteen when Beth arrived so this phases me. 

This is kind of a head-scratcher. It seemed like they went out of their way not to cast a younger Jolene (same actress throughout), but I think we were supposed to believe she was younger than fifteen. 

  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post

Beth also lied about her age to adoptive parents—Mrs. Deardon said she was 13 when she was actually 15—so all the ages are a little screwy. 

  • Love 7

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Beth also lied about her age to adoptive parents—Mrs. Deardon said she was 13 when she was actually 15—so all the ages are a little screwy. 

Thank you for that. I knew it was a lie but I didn't know how old she was supposed to be. Missed that part. I mainlined the whole series yesterday and the only thing that bothered me were the clearly adult women playing tweens. it's bad enough when they play modern day 17 year olds (who think they're grown) but to have 20somethings playing 14/15 year olds is...it was really hard to wrap my head around. It is always hard casting shows that span so many stages of a person's life but I do still wish there'd been a teen actress before jumping into the amazing Ana Taylor Joy. She did, impressively, act quite young, but there was no way to hid the fact this was a grownup playing a teenager which doesn't work quite as well in the 60s as it does now. 

Other than that, this was an amazing show and I have zero interest at all in chess. I just really enjoyed the story and thought it visually stunning. 

  • Love 8

Share this post


Link to post

I was hoping they would have given us some insight on why the adoptive couple wanted to adopt an older child. Apparently their daughter died and this was a  replacement daughter? 
They have really done a good job on capturing the 60’s with the clothes, music, and TV shows. 

  • Love 5

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

I was hoping they would have given us some insight on why the adoptive couple wanted to adopt an older child. Apparently their daughter died and this was a  replacement daughter? 

Spoiler tagging until I figure out if this happened in episode 2 or 3:

Spoiler

At some point, 'Dad' refers to Beth as Alma's friend or companion or something. I took it as a nod to the fact that Alma didn't want a child to raise, she was just desperately lonely and wanted someone around the house. 

 

  • Love 9
  • Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post

This show really makes me want to drag my old chess board out to see if I still remember all of the rules. It makes it look so thrilling, especially in the lonely and sort of grey atmosphere. 

I am guessing that her adopted parents adopted Beth as less of a daughter and more of a companion for the wife, who is lonely, sad, and her meds keep her floating on a cloud. It does seem like Beth and her adopted mom have bonded more, especially after her husband left, but I am curious about what Beth's chess wins will affect things. 

The set design, costumes, and general period details are all so detailed and lovely, they give you such a great sense of time and place without beating you over the head with it. Beth really needs to do something about that hair though, it is not at all flattering on her. Is it a wig? 

  • Love 11

Share this post


Link to post

The couple adopting a young teenager as a companion for a depressed wife reminds me a lot of White Oleander, except that mom was more into bonding with her. 
 

The cut from age ten saying she’s not allowed to play chess anymore to age 15 still obsessed with chess was an odd cut. Was she able to play chess with the janitor or the high school chess club in the intervening years? 
 

I wonder if they filmed and deleted a scene where Beth opens the menstrual product and is totally confused how to use it - because my understanding is that back then it would have involved a garter belt type thing with safety pins etc. That scene was weird to modern eyes because a modern pad is super easy to use and throwing it away would make no sense, but I gather they were more confusing and complicated back then. Unless it was something other than a pad? I don’t think tampons would have been a thing with teenage girls back then. Were there any other options? At least she knew what it was when it happened. Why did the foster mom say it was late in the day for her if she believes her to be two heads younger that she is?

Edited by LeGrandElephant
  • Love 4

Share this post


Link to post

Tampax tampons have been around since 1933, but I imagine "good" girls didn't use them because they were inserted into the vagina. Like how riding astride somehow ruins a woman's virginity. It's nonsense, but that was the thinking.

  • Love 4
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

Elizabeth is simultaneously very smart and very naïve.  It feels like a trend for main characters to be borderline autistic these days.

While I did enjoy Elizabeth not really caring about fitting in with the snobby popular girl clique, she comes off as an almost feral street urchin willing to do almost anything to get by: lie, shoplift, skim prescription drugs, etc.  So far, she seems to have been lucky enough to only have to deal with people who mostly ignore her.  Being ignored and isolated can make for an unhappy childhood, but it beats the alternative of being targeted and abused. 

Nitpicks aside, this is one of the better series available this year. 

  • Love 7

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/3/2020 at 10:24 PM, DangerousMinds said:

She was probably taught how to use the pads in school. They showed the girls films and gave out pamphlets, etc.

She made it clear she didn’t know how to use them - she threw away the one the girl gave her and used toilet paper instead (that wouldn’t have lasted me very long!) and then when she got home she told her foster mother she didn’t know how to use them and asked for help. 

  • Love 5

Share this post


Link to post

On 11/3/2020 at 11:24 PM, DangerousMinds said:

She was probably taught how to use the pads in school. They showed the girls films and gave out pamphlets, etc.

I am from that era.  They showed us films.  After which, I still had no idea how to use sanitary pads, nor did I know a male sperm was required for fertilization.  Truth.

  • Love 15
  • Useful 1
  • Laugh 6

Share this post


Link to post

Beth skipped all the films to go play chess in the basement!

I'm really liking this so far. Watching Beth take down smug guys will never get old. I expect things with the adoptive mom will sour at some point (often seems to happen in these child prodigy stories), but for now it's nice to see her come alive and plan out the upcoming trip.

I'd previously seen Anya Taylor-Joy in the film Thoroughbreds, which is tense and disturbing and good. She plays calculating and disaffected very well.

  • Love 7
  • Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/24/2020 at 6:49 PM, kieyra said:

Shallow note: I don’t know the actress who plays Beth, but she looks like a child of Natalie Dormer and Bjork, and the camera loves her.

She was in The Witch,  Split the new mutants

Share this post


Link to post

The art direction is consistently interesting, but I'm surprised to read commentary here that it captures the period in a particularly realistic way. It's not realistic at all. I suspect I'm not alone here in having lived through the period myself, but in any case these interiors and wardrobes are not how anything looked then--or ever. Not a complaint! The stylization consistently gives the eye something to look at, and at least uses the period as a starting point, and the drama and characters are compelling. Dull reality as a world for the drama to take place would be...dull.

  • Love 6
  • Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

The art direction is consistently interesting, but I'm surprised to read commentary here that it captures the period in a particularly realistic way. It's not realistic at all. I suspect I'm not alone here in having lived through the period myself, but in any case these interiors and wardrobes are not how anything looked then--or ever. Not a complaint! The stylization consistently gives the eye something to look at, and at least uses the period as a starting point, and the drama and characters are compelling. Dull reality as a world for the drama to take place would be...dull.

People tend to do the same with food, among other things, I'm sure. I'm of a particular ethnicity, I've been to the country, I've eaten the local food, I've grown up with it around me my whole life.  Yet, white writers will write that some random restaurant of that ethnicity is "so authentic".  LOL, based on what?!  Based on what knowledge, experience do you have to make that call? I find it really wacky and interesting.  The word "authentic" is a cliche that people sometimes use poorly.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Love 7

Share this post


Link to post

How old is the good-looking chess player that Beth seems to like? Did they say?  When they were playing chess, I thought "How is it possible to make a chess match hot?!?" 

Interesting how Beth couldn't "see" the chess board on her bedroom ceiling due the canopy on her elaborate bed. 

Loved her takedown of the chess-dude who was late to the match. He said "I can work my way out of this ..." and Beth said, "Maybe you could if you had gotten here on time." 

Ah, now that the adoptive mom sees that money is involved, she is quite interested. Hmmm.

  • Love 5
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/25/2020 at 1:49 AM, kieyra said:

Shallow note: I don’t know the actress who plays Beth, but she looks like a child of Natalie Dormer and Bjork, and the camera loves her.

She did play the lead in Jane Austen's Emma in the movie this year. Also a great watch! 🙂

  • Love 2
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, bara007 said:

She did play the lead in Jane Austen's Emma

I had no idea, though now of course I see it! That was the last movie I saw in a theatre, early March 😞 

Share this post


Link to post

Interesting comment about the art direction. I’ve noticed when something is set in the past they make a house etc have everything of that time. When I  reality people don’t redecorate every year. Our house has furniture and a lot of stuff from the 80s, reupholstered but still. I’ve never seen curtains on an arch in my life. 

  • Love 5

Share this post


Link to post

In the first episode, I was sure that the custodian would end up being a creepy child molester and I was wrong. In this episode, I was convinced that the adoptive father would end up being a creepy child molester and I was wrong again. For the record, I'm totally fine being wrong. Beth has already had enough tragedies in her life.

I was hoping she would become friends with the girl she met at the chess tournament. Although Beth is very independent, she also benefited from being friends with Jolene at the orphanage and it would be nice for her to have a friend around her own age who also has an interest in chess. It was especially great to see the chess girl being so nice after the bitchy girls Beth had to deal with at school.

The adoptive mom said her husband was the one who suggested adopting Beth, so I'm guessing he wanted out of the marriage but he felt like he couldn't just leave her alone to her own devices due to her health issues and drinking. Once he had Beth in the house, he was free to abandon his wife.

  • Love 13
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

I mentioned the British actors bingo in the first episode thread, and dude, that was Dudley Dursley. I knew I knew those those eyes.

Also, I never got to finish earlier but yes, chess can be hot.

  • Love 4

Share this post


Link to post

What I found amusing was when Beth was given a note to be able to buy cigarettes at the drug store. From personal experience, I can tell you that would have been completely unnecessary for the early '60s. As a five year-old in '63, I regularly was sent to the small grocery store around the corner from our house to get a pack of Chesterfields for my Dad, a pack of Newports for my Mom and a loaf of bread. No one batted an eye. 😄 Very different time.

  • Love 7
  • Laugh 3

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, ProudMary said:

What I found amusing was when Beth was given a note to be able to buy cigarettes at the drug store. From personal experience, I can tell you that would have been completely unnecessary for the early '60s. As a five year-old in '63, I regularly was sent to the small grocery store around the corner from our house to get a pack of Chesterfields for my Dad, a pack of Newports for my Mom and a loaf of bread. No one batted an eye. 😄 Very different time.

Your age probably worked for you a bit more, Beth was old enough that the cigarettes could have conceivably been for herself. You at age 5 are almost certainly NOT buying those cigs for yourself 😉

  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Your age probably worked for you a bit more, Beth was old enough that the cigarettes could have conceivably been for herself. You at age 5 are almost certainly NOT buying those cigs for yourself 😉

😅
Seriously though, thirteen or fourteen year-olds who were actually buying them for themselves, had no problem buying cigarettes at that time either. The Surgeon General's report that showed the link between cigarettes and health issues wasn't released until 1964 and the actual warning on packs of cigarettes didn't appear until 1970 or so. I don't know when age restrictions on the purchase of cigarettes came into play, and I'm sure it was different from state to state, but if there were any at that time, they sure weren't enforced!

  • Love 5

Share this post


Link to post

I used to buy two cartons of cigarettes a week at a gas station for my boss when I was in high school in the late '70s—I was 16/17—and no one said boo. 

My mom would sometimes pick me up from work and make me open the window because I smelled so smoky. The other employees and I would joke that our boss had a cigarette in every room. (We worked in a little house.) That was pretty accurate.

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

On 11/6/2020 at 2:55 PM, LeGrandElephant said:

She made it clear she didn’t know how to use them - she threw away the one the girl gave her and used toilet paper instead (that wouldn’t have lasted me very long!) and then when she got home she told her foster mother she didn’t know how to use them and asked for help. 

Also, was she going commando?  Because for her to have blood dripping down her leg, it would have had to soak her underwear, yet she had nothing on her skirt.  And I have done the rolled up toilet paper thing in a true emergency (I'm a few years away from menopause and I am STILL consistently caught unprepared for my period - complete failure in life on this front), but she just used a few sheets!  I've used practically half a roll when I've had to do it.  There's no way that would have worked out until she got home.

And yes, I'm certain she could have gotten cigarettes for herself if she wanted.  I started smoking at 15 and never had a problem.  The legal age when I started was 17, and then changed to 18 while I was 16.  And yet still, I never had a problem being very underage and getting cigarettes for myself.  And yeah, my mom used to send me into the gas station while she waited in the car when I was 8/9 to get cigarettes AND beer!  

  • Love 3
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, lasu said:

Also, was she going commando?  Because for her to have blood dripping down her leg, it would have had to soak her underwear, yet she had nothing on her skirt. 

I hate when shows/movies do that. I've been "caught" by my period more times than I'd like to think, it was never regular, and never once has it gotten to the point that it's dripping down my leg. Usually I feel the wetness in my knickers well before there would be any dripping. And then there's that lovely red spot on the pants/skirt which would also happen long before it dripped down my leg. It's never dripped down my leg like that. But shows always do that. 

And yeah, I have done the TP thing. Ah, the wonders of being a woman. (If I get to mid December without a period I'm officially menopausal! *fingers crossed*)

  • Love 9

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/3/2020 at 1:34 PM, LeGrandElephant said:

The couple adopting a young teenager as a companion for a depressed wife reminds me a lot of White Oleander, except that mom was more into bonding with her. 

I was totally thinking the same thing. Was that the Rene zellwegger mom? 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post

I played chess a lot as a kid after watching Bobby Fischer beat Boris Spassky.  This show makes me want to pick up the game again.  In real life,  Alexandra Kosteniuk, was the Russian women's speed chess champion at age 12 and eventually won the world women's chess title multiple times.   Although this show is based on a book that was written a decade before that happened, it just goes to show that this story is entirely plausible.

  • Love 4
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/11/2020 at 8:59 PM, Milburn Stone said:

The art direction is consistently interesting, but I'm surprised to read commentary here that it captures the period in a particularly realistic way. It's not realistic at all. I suspect I'm not alone here in having lived through the period myself, but in any case these interiors and wardrobes are not how anything looked then--or ever. Not a complaint! The stylization consistently gives the eye something to look at, and at least uses the period as a starting point, and the drama and characters are compelling. Dull reality as a world for the drama to take place would be...dull.

I appreciated the glimpse of the Hot Stuff comic book in the store.  

 

 

On 11/23/2020 at 1:15 PM, lasu said:

Also, was she going commando?  Because for her to have blood dripping down her leg, it would have had to soak her underwear, yet she had nothing on her skirt. 

My first time in 8th grade was almost exactly like that--running the the rest room as it dripped down my leg. Looking back, I'm glad we had to wear dresses and skirts because pants would have been a bloody mess.

Edited by shapeshifter · Reason: "wear dresses" not "where dresses"
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

On 11/12/2020 at 7:20 PM, MoreCoffeePlease said:

How old is the good-looking chess player that Beth seems to like? Did they say?  When they were playing chess, I thought "How is it possible to make a chess match hot?!?" 

Interesting how Beth couldn't "see" the chess board on her bedroom ceiling due the canopy on her elaborate bed. 

Loved her takedown of the chess-dude who was late to the match. He said "I can work my way out of this ..." and Beth said, "Maybe you could if you had gotten here on time." 

Ah, now that the adoptive mom sees that money is involved, she is quite interested. Hmmm.

He was college aged. One of the twins at registration said he was on the college chess team. 

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/3/2020 at 12:34 PM, LeGrandElephant said:

I wonder if they filmed and deleted a scene where Beth opens the menstrual product and is totally confused how to use it - because my understanding is that back then it would have involved a garter belt type thing with safety pins etc. That scene was weird to modern eyes because a modern pad is super easy to use and throwing it away would make no sense, but I gather they were more confusing and complicated back then. Unless it was something other than a pad? I don’t think tampons would have been a thing with teenage girls back then. Were there any other options? At least she knew what it was when it happened. Why did the foster mom say it was late in the day for her if she believes her to be two heads younger that she is?

Speaking from late 1960s experience here... The pads typically did require use of a garter belt type thingy.  No safety pins that I recall -- the belt was designed to latch onto either end of the pad.  Even when I was in college in the mid-1970s, tampon usage was not widespread in my social circle.  It all seems so primitive now!  

On 11/3/2020 at 2:12 PM, dubbel zout said:

Tampax tampons have been around since 1933, but I imagine "good" girls didn't use them because they were inserted into the vagina. Like how riding astride somehow ruins a woman's virginity. It's nonsense, but that was the thinking.

Yup, this kind of thinking was prevalent.  

I read that membership at chess.com has doubled since this show debuted.  Sales of chess sets are on the rise as well.  I doubt we'll see a resurgence in sales of menstrual garter belts.  🙃

Did Beth ever buy herself a pair of saddle shoes?  I like the way she prioritizes.  And the way she deliberately bumped through that gaggle of girls in the school hallway, as one had done to her at her locker earlier.

  • Love 4

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Inquisitionist said:

Did Beth ever buy herself a pair of saddle shoes?  I like the way she prioritizes.  And the way she deliberately bumped through that gaggle of girls in the school hallway, as one had done to her at her locker earlier.

She did.  When she buys herself a new dress and chess set, we later see her wearing new saddle shoes.

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, lasu said:

She did.  When she buys herself a new dress and chess set, we later see her wearing new saddle shoes.

Thanks!  I thought I was watching closely, but I missed that.  It made sense that she would bow to this particular status symbol.  

  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, Inquisitionist said:

Speaking from late 1960s experience here... The pads typically did require use of a garter belt type thingy.  No safety pins that I recall -- the belt was designed to latch onto either end of the pad.  Even when I was in college in the mid-1970s, tampon usage was not widespread in my social circle.  It all seems so primitive now!  

On 11/3/2020 at 2:12 PM, dubbel zout said:

Tampax tampons have been around since 1933, but I imagine "good" girls didn't use them because they were inserted into the vagina. Like how riding astride somehow ruins a woman's virginity. It's nonsense, but that was the thinking.

Yup, this kind of thinking was prevalent.  

Having an older sister, and having flows of pints rather than tablespoons, by age 14 in 1967, I used my first tampon (in combination with a pad), and fainted. Fortunately that didn't happen again with tampon insertion, but it wasn't until 50 years later during a routine pelvic that a gynecologist defined this reaction as "vasovagal syncope" (not limited to cervical nerve reactions, but not uncommon with them either).
Vasovagal syncope fainting might have influenced the mythologies surrounding tampon use. Some women (one of my daughters) actually prefer pads because of frequently having this reaction.
But I doubt the orphanage would have mentioned tampons, and I doubt Beth's adoptive mom would have said anything one way or the other about the morality of tampons. 
But I could be wrong. 

  • Useful 3

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/22/2020 at 4:20 PM, ProudMary said:

What I found amusing was when Beth was given a note to be able to buy cigarettes at the drug store. From personal experience, I can tell you that would have been completely unnecessary for the early '60s. As a five year-old in '63, I regularly was sent to the small grocery store around the corner from our house to get a pack of Chesterfields for my Dad, a pack of Newports for my Mom and a loaf of bread. No one batted an eye. 😄 Very different time.

I thought the note was for her to charge the cigarettes to her adopted mother's account.  The store owner doesn't know Beth from Adam.

I used to work with someone who grew up in St. Louis and told stories set about this same time about being sent to the local bar with a bucket to bring back beer for her father.

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I thought the note was for her to charge the cigarettes to her adopted mother's account.  The store owner doesn't know Beth from Adam.

Maybe, but Alma wrote the note after remarking to Beth that she didn't look old enough to be a smoker.

 

2 hours ago, meep.meep said:

in St. Louis and told stories set about this same time about being sent to the local bar with a bucket to bring back beer for her father.

😂 I bet she had a lot of great stories!

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/4/2020 at 7:39 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

While I did enjoy Elizabeth not really caring about fitting in with the snobby popular girl clique, she comes off as an almost feral street urchin willing to do almost anything to get by: lie, shoplift, skim prescription drugs, etc.  So far, she seems to have been lucky enough to only have to deal with people who mostly ignore her.  Being ignored and isolated can make for an unhappy childhood, but it beats the alternative of being targeted and abused.

She does care. She noticed that the popular girls all wear the same black and white oxfords - as opposed to her cheap and too big brown ones - and she heard them whisper about her clothes and hair. Then with the money from her state championship win she buys clothes *not* from the clearance rack at the department store.

On 11/12/2020 at 10:20 AM, MoreCoffeePlease said:

Loved her takedown of the chess-dude who was late to the match. He said "I can work my way out of this ..." and Beth said, "Maybe you could if you had gotten here on time." 

That didn't really work for me since I'm pretty sure players are not supposed to talk during a match (other then to say "check," "mate," "draw," etc.) The impact of that scene - Beth beating the highest rated player and winning the tournament - would have been meaningful enough without the talking.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size