S09.E14: Fully Loaded

[PhilMarlowe2]

Whoa, has anyone else checked out the preview of Vicki and Briana in family therapy? That is the realeast I have ever seen shit get in the Gunvalson household. Even though that therapist seems largely ineffectual to me, somehow he did get Briana to drop the Brooks bashing long enough to get into some of her deeply held pain of being raised by such a narcissist. Can't wait to see more.

[iloveit]

Yeah, that was kind of sad.  I wonder if part of the appeal of marrying Ryan to Brianna was that he is in the military and she would have a built in excuse to move away from the Vickster.  Obviously, she is an adult and should have been able to stand up to Vicki and move away herself, but Vicki is going batshit about Brianna moving even though she HAS to move because her husband is in the military.  Imagine how Vicki would act if Brianna was voluntarily moving. Yikes/

[FozzyBear]

Yeah, that was kind of sad. I wonder if part of the appeal of marrying Ryan to Brianna was that he is in the military and she would have a built in excuse to move away from the Vickster. Obviously, she is an adult and should have been able to stand up to Vicki and move away herself, but Vicki is going batshit about Brianna moving even though she HAS to move because her husband is in the military. Imagine how Vicki would act if Brianna was voluntarily moving. Yikes/

I've posted in other threads befor that I think part if the appeal in general of a life of public service (Brianna's always dated someone in uniform. Firefighter, cop, military...) is that so many decisions are out of your hands and what you're doing is so noble that you have a built in excuse for the decisions that are yours. Brianna's pretty much the poster child for co-dependence and I really don't think she's capable of making a decision and defending it so she married someone just as narcissistic and controlling as her mom with a very controlled career.

Point of order though, Brianna went to college in the OC so she could be near her boyfriend. It drives me crazy the way she rewrites history so that nothing is ever her fault. This is where I get very sympathetic to Michael. Kid can be annoying, but he figured out a long time ago that he had to just do what he wanted and deal with the consequences. He wanted to go to school out of state so he did. I'm sure he had to endure a ton if Vicki's guilt tripping BS, but he did it. He doesn't want his mom overly involved in his life so he sets boundaries and sticks to them NO MATTER WHAT. Like so many co-dependent, emotionally stunted adults Brianna still has a very teenage view of independence. She wants to make her own choices, but to never have to defend them. She confuses Vicki objecting (loudly, often, relentlessly) with Vicki stopping her. Drives me up the wall.

[LotusFlower]

Wow - that really was something. Brianna goes straight to the point - her mother's narcissism. But she left out the best example: when Vicki drove Brianna to the hospital for her thyroid surgery and made it all about her.

[PhilMarlowe2]

Admittedly, I have some built-in sympathy for Brianna because of my own experience being raised by a very narcissistic mother (and I am saying this as someone who does not like Brianna as a person - I find her need to take down Brooks really gross). At the end of the day, it is of course true that any adult needs to take responsibility for his/her own life and realize that no parent can stop them from doing what they want. But I will also say, from experience, that when you are the child of a narcissist, it is very possible that you don't actually understand that reality on an emotional level. For most of my life, I lived in absolute fear of my mother and her responses to my life decisions. I dreaded the drama. You could tell me that I had a right to do what I wanted, that I could hang up the phone, that I could draw boundaries - and I might intellectually understand that - but emotionally? Physically? I just didn't get it. I would literally get terror and anxiety thinking about drawing hard lines in the sand - I immediately would brace myself against the feeling of inevitable shame and humiliation I would have to undergo. It took years of working on myself and thousands of dollars on therapy to get to a point where I actually understood I had a right to my own life on a real cellular level. Now that I am on the other side of it, it all of course  makes sense, and my mother could never stop me from doing anything. But it took work and I count myself as extremely fortunate to have gotten to this point by the age of 36 (sadly, I have seen similar people take much longer to break free from those binds - if they ever do). Brianna is still young, she is barely out of the house in terms of the scope of her life. There is a real trauma that can occur from being raised by a narcissist. It is also very possible that Brianna used staying close to Colby as her reason for studying in the OC so that she didn't have to admit that she was doing it to please her mother (and, by extension, wouldn't have to get into a fight about it). I have always maintained that Vicki was probably worse behind closed doors than she was on camera. Even Michael, who does draw boundaries, seems to have thinly-veiled major resentment against Vicki. He also has a very frightened look in his eyes at all times, they're always darting around skittishly. I think both those kids probably have a lot of rage that they have repressed. Obviously, this is all conjecture on my part, but it is how I intuitively see them.

[FozzyBear]

I actually do have sympathy for Brianna in regards to being raised by Vicki and learning to set boundaries with any parent is hard. I just don't believe she stayed in the OC for her mom. I remember conversations where Vicki was very concerned about Brianna making such big decisions based on a HS boyfriend. I'm sure Brianna has felt pressured by her mom to give up many things, I also think that when Brianna makes a decision she ends up regretting she starts looking for a way to blame it on someone else. Often her mother. I think it's probably a related issue. I had a good friend with a crazy mom who also engaged in the same revisionist history (nothing was ever really her responsibility) and I feel like Brianna has done this so much for so many years it's really hard to trust her memory of anything. I mean, Ryan doesn't have a temper and he's never done anything to apologize for. Everything with Brianna is either perfect or not her responsibility.

Edited July 17, 2014 by FozzyBear

[PhilMarlowe2]

No, it is true - this is why I don't really like Brianna as a person. She is full of excuses - for herself and others. And, to be honest, I have no memory of those early season decisions. But I do feel bad for her in the clip. I think Vicki majorly fucked her up and that we are getting a glimpse of her real pain.

[zoeysmom]

Briana once said my mom is my best friend.  Kind of sad.  Briana once said -"this is why I don't have girlfriends."  I always got the impression Briana was kind of a simple person, embracing impossible standards of chasity and purity, while her parents we doing their best to break the standards all the while she observed their antics.  I do think she has a bit of a victim mentality and uses every cliché imaginable when it comes to describing others behavior.  Her absolute meltdown on her mother at the Reunion and going after Brooks also indicated to me she is a humorless soul.

 

It would not surprise me to read in a couple of years she and Ryan have divorced, she returns to the OC and moves back in with Vicki and has a whole new set of mental and physical maladies.  I think Briana wants to be number one in her mother's life.

[Lola16]

 

Michael. Kid can be annoying, but he figured out a long time ago that he had to just do what he wanted and deal with the consequences. He wanted to go to school out of state so he did.

I'd have some respect for Michael if he made something of himself instead of living off Vicki.

[Petunia13]

Brianna needs to address or mentally come to peace with her issues if she wants to be a good mom to her kids. She's a mom now and seems to still be obsessed with how her mommy treated her or treats her presently and she has a much more important priority - her own kids.

As for for her marriage to that raging psychotic trash I'm sure it'll fail if she had all her hang ups and issues or was emotionally balanced.

I also wonder when if ever is her happiness and mental well being her own responsibility? She sure loves being the victim.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Petunia13

[zoeysmom]

I am curious why once Briana graduated from nursing school why she didn't join Nurses Without Borders?  Was it just her mother or was it her health issues?  Seems odd that a grown up can't just pick up and leave.  It is not as if she is living under the terms of a family trust.  I think Briana enjoyed her Bravo paychecks.  Easy money. 

[charming]

I think it's easier said then done with some of these kids. I think every time she tried to be independent something brought her back to Vicki. Her breakup with her high school boyfriend and then her health issues.

 

It's not always easy to extract yourself from an overbearing parent. Especially if you don't have the tools or emotional support.

[Petunia13]

Yes when her boyfriend dumped her and when he had health issues (both crisis) she turned to her horrible mom. Her mom who sucks so bad after she was there for her with that, then supported her emotionally and financially during her marriage and pregnancies. Poor Bri. Yes her mom is bossy and irritating boo hoo. Maybe she should take a day in the life of a child physically abused or molested or kid raised in a slum by crackhead or prostutute parents and then she can explain for her hundredth time why her life was such an adversity.

It'll be cute when in 18 years her 2 kids are bitching on tv about their psychotic abusive dad and worthless mom who was too busy enabling him or rehashing shit grandma did to lovingly care for them.

[charming]

First Look was on today. I can't wait to see the rest of this season! Casting did a tremendous job with the addition of Shannon & Lizzie.

 

I'm so sick of Terry, Tamra & Heather. These three little bitches had the nerve to call Christian over and ask him to call an ambulance for Shannon. Brav-fucking-o to that messy haired frat boy to scoff, roll his eyes and refuse. Heather's so desperate for Tamra & Vicki's friendship that she has to gaslight Shannon. The problem is, Heather's the one looking foolish and petty. That shot of her smirking as Shannon is apologizing says it all about her personality. Tamra will skate cause she's always been a trashbox. Vicki's her own person this season and not participating in the manipulation.

 

I really liked Lizzie, Vicki and David helping Shannon to calm down. Props and laughs to Vicki trying to walk down that steep incline in those heels and almost not making it. Props and laughs to David for predicting that when Shannon walked back into the party all conversation would end.

 

Who knew that Vicki would be the voice of reason? I think she nailed it.

[zenme]

In the First Look Tamra was trying to act like she is such a calming spirit and good friend to Shannon.  What bullshit.  The whole time I was thinking how this could have all been avoided had she kept her blabber mouth shut, and just have been a good friend by listening.

 

Heather just could not hold back her evil grin, and the camera people made sure to get that on film.   

 

I'm glad that Lizzie's husband (can't remember his name), quickly shut down Tamra and Heather's "bright" idea for calling an ambulance.  I'm sure that Heather would have loved to go back the rest of the hens and reported Shannon having a mental breakdown and leaving in an ambulance.  What an evil, evil bitch.  People have a hard time forgetting that kind of thing, and for the Beador kids to have to hear about something like that would have been devastating to them.  It seems like Heather is intent on harming Shannon's reputation in any way she can.

[motorcitymom65]

In the First Look Tamra was trying to act like she is such a calming spirit and good friend to Shannon.  What bullshit.  The whole time I was thinking how this could have all been avoided had she kept her blabber mouth shut, and just have been a good friend by listening.

 

Heather just could not hold back her evil grin, and the camera people made sure to get that on film.   

 

I'm glad that Lizzie's husband (can't remember his name), quickly shut down Tamra and Heather's "bright" idea for calling an ambulance.  I'm sure that Heather would have loved to go back the rest of the hens and reported Shannon having a mental breakdown and leaving in an ambulance.  What an evil, evil bitch.  People have a hard time forgetting that kind of thing, and for the Beador kids to have to hear about something like that would have been devastating to them.  It seems like Heather is intent on harming Shannon's reputation in any way she can.

I am not sure what difference it would have made if Heather had this info to talk about with her friends. Wouldn't they have seen the breakdown themselves on their TV, since Shannon decided to behave in such a manner with TV cameras present? I simply cannot get past the fact that if Shannon's kids are traumatized by what they learn about their mothers mental health or their parents marriage, or what the kids on the playground use to taunt them with, it wasn't manufactured gossip used by Heather to make her look bad. It was based on the words she used about her marriage, the behavior she displayed, and the way she reacted.

[bosawks]

I have sympathy for nobody.

Heather if you don't want to be seen as a gossip stop gossiping.

Tamra if you don't want to be seen a a manipulative bitch don't act like a manipulative bitch.

Shannon if you don't want people to talk about your marriage don't talk about your marriage and don't act like a whackadoo when they do.

Vicki, ah hell, just stop acting like Vicki.

Everyone if you don't like living in BRAVO's "Dance monkey dance!" world quit.

[sandyskyblue]

Watched the First Look just now and wow....wow and wow....they crammed a lot into those few minutes....Heather, STFU about calling an ambulance for Heather...how about apologizing to her instead??  That would do more for her than an ambulance...thank you Christian, for shutting that idea down...and while I think Vicki had the right idea to go after Shannon after she left the house to support her, why didn't Vicki open her mouth at the time Heather was, once again, ripping into Shannon?? Oh yeah, Vicki is not going to be involved this season.....whatever....and another instance of someone (Heather) not saying a word while Shannon apologized to everyone at the party, that was class, Heather, you could use a lesson or 2 in that....Heather could have eased everything by also apologizing to Shannon at that moment...but no, she waits till Shannon leaves (again!) and starts making her apologies to everyone else at the party, and Christian (my hero!!) calls her on making it all about her herself!!!  Yay Christian!!!  Kudos also to Lizzie and David for supporting Shannon....and the best line goes to Brooks: 'I go to the bathroom when things get heated!!'

[zoeysmom]

Absolutely ridiculous to even suggest an ambulance be called.  There was a limo out front and her next of kin was available to take care of her.  Did Shannon threated to do bodily harm to anyone, did she threaten to take her own life, was she unconscious, having a seizure? Breaking the fourth wall in a reality show doesn't warrant a call for a psychiatric intervention. Those are the only reasons one can be placed on H&S code section 5150 and the police have to be involved if it is involuntary.  What I saw was a person who was trying to leave the fray and two unrelated women dogging after her with one repeatedly grabbing her after repeatedly being asked to stop.  Terry should be a little more aware of his medical license if he thinks at any time this warranted an ambulance.

 

 

I am not sure what difference it would have made if Heather had this info to talk about with her friends. Wouldn't they have seen the breakdown themselves on their TV, since Shannon decided to behave in such a manner with TV cameras present? I simply cannot get past the fact that if Shannon's kids are traumatized by what they learn about their mothers mental health or their parents marriage, or what the kids on the playground use to taunt them with, it wasn't manufactured gossip used by Heather to make her look bad. It was based on the words she used about her marriage, the behavior she displayed, and the way she reacted.

No good ever comes of being a gossip.  Tamra and Heather's stories both rang fake when they immediately started making fun of her.  They were gossiping.  Tamra had no desire for Heather to go easy on Shannon.  I believe Heather's last spin was an attempt to say that "all the other women" at the lunch were asking about Shannon.  Why would the other women be asking about Shannon?  It was almost as if the more Heather talked about it the more incredible her explanation became.  

 

For argument's sake had Tamra and Heather not gossiped about the Beadors there would have been no visit to Heather's house and no need for the "discussion" "confrontation" at Lizzie's parent's home.  Maybe a little dust up regarding "taking the Beadors down" comment but Shannon and David seemed to behave somewhat rationally.  I believe many people feel that Shannon was entitled to approach Heather as to the source of her gossip statement.  If all the world saw was Shannon speaking of David wanting to move out for awhile and her persistent nagging there would be a different picture of Shannon rather than the present one where veteran RHs are trying to gaslight her.

 

I don't agree with Shannon playing the mother to mother card with Heather-I think she should have just said, "I don't appreciate you and Tamra discussing my business."  Especially since Tamra had amped it up from "move out for awhile" to divorce.

 

The same standard could be held for the Dubrow kids when the kids taunt them about their lying, manipulative witch of a mother.  Tamra's children as well.  Heather chose her words and actions and reactions.  I would rather have my kids around insecure Shannon than vindictive Heather.  Shannon's kids are at the age where they all think their parents are crazy-her kids just have a little more proof.

Edited July 20, 2014 by zoeysmom

[SunTheen]

I also watched the First Look and all I kept saying was "Shut up, Tamra". As Shannon was trying to leave, did anyone else notice Tamras smug look on her face? Then her trying to get Shannon to stay? And this is why she won't be fired from RHOC.

[islandgal140]

This is just the dinner party that just keeps giving and giving and giving. Love it! Some will disagree but on the list of Bravo dinner parties from hell, I would put this at #3. #1 being scary island and #2 BH e-cig disaster. It is just that good to me.

An ambulance bitches really? And I include Terry in with the bitches because he is. I really wanted to just smack all their smug faces, especially when Shannon re-entered the room. David got it so right, the room shut up quick when they came back in LOL! So glad they stuck to their guns as that piece of rotting roadkill Tamra trying to extend that shit by talking them into staying. I agree with whomever above said that shit like that is why Tamra will never be fired. She is a shit stirring MVP for production.

Funny watching Heather spin it to make her inability to give Shannon an inch as being Tamra's fault. Yet she still stands in solidarity with that weasel faced rat.

Heather just looked and acted telenovela like sinister these past 2 episodes.

Watching the replays of Tamra yelling in Shannon's face, grabbing her face and hands in order to calm her down would be comical if it wasn't so infuriating especially because Shannon was telling her to get the fuck away from her. That just reminds me of a Roseanne episode when Becky and Darlene are babysitting Crystal's baby. The baby is fussing and crying and Darlene takes a rattle and shakes it in the baby's face thinking it will calm him. Becky snatches the rattle out of Darlene's hand and shakes it in Darlene's face and asks "Does that calm you down you moron." I was so wishes that Shannon would have grabbed Tamra's face screamed in it and asked the same question.

Kudoz to Lizzie's husband. Firstly, for shutting down that dumb ass ambulance talk and secondly for calling Heather out on making the toast about herself.

Still can't help digging Vicki

[FozzyBear]

I have sympathy for nobody.

Heather if you don't want to be seen as a gossip stop gossiping.

Tamra if you don't want to be seen a a manipulative bitch don't act like a manipulative bitch.

Shannon if you don't want people to talk about your marriage don't talk about your marriage and don't act like a whackadoo when they do.

Vicki, ah hell, just stop acting like Vicki.

Everyone if you don't like living in BRAVO's "Dance monkey dance!" world quit.

Oh my god yes! There are no winners in this one!

[movingtargetgal]

Watching the replays of Tamra yelling in Shannon's face, grabbing her face and hands in order to calm her down would be comical if it wasn't so infuriating especially because Shannon was telling her to get the fuck away from her. That just reminds me of a Roseanne episode when Becky and Darlene are babysitting Crystal's baby. The baby is fussing and crying and Darlene takes a rattle and shakes it in the baby's face thinking it will calm him. Becky snatches the rattle out of Darlene's hand and shakes it in Darlene's face and asks "Does that calm you down you moron." I was so wishes that Shannon would have grabbed Tamra's face screamed in it and asked the same question.

 

 

Let me first say that I have not had a physical altercation since I was a pre teen. (It was my little sister and she really had it coming...mom even said so lol.) However, if I were trying to get away from someone, in this case Tamra, and they grabbed at my face and hands in order to restrain me so I could not get away from them,  my fist would be so far down their throat they would think they were having a rectal exam. 

[Socwkr34]

Psychotic break? Bitch please. Heathers a nasty piece of work. Tamra needs this paycheck. What is your excuse for being a part of this shit-storm? Another guest "starring" role on Hawaii fucking 5-0?

Lizzie's husband was awesome.

[motorcitymom65]

The same standard could be held for the Dubrow kids when the kids taunt them about their lying, manipulative witch of a mother.  Tamra's children as well.  Heather chose her words and actions and reactions.  I would rather have my kids around insecure Shannon than vindictive Heather.  Shannon's kids are at the age where they all think their parents are crazy-her kids just have a little more proof.

But do you think that other kids at school will taunt the Dubrow kids because their mom is manipulative and lying? Are kids aware of these things? I tend to think that they may make fun of them because they cannot have a cookie or onion rings, but I find it hard to believe that there is much else that the kids at school would mock them for with regard to their mom. Aside from the fact that she has sunk low enough to be on a reality show, but then that is a level playing field with these gals.

 

I use to hear a similar argument against Kyle on the BH blogs. Folks would often mention (me included) that Brandi was doing her kids no favors. That her behavior was putting her children in a position to be mocked for things outside of their control. I often heard others saying that Kyle's girls were in just as much jeopardy because she was so manipulative. Again, I just don't think the two things are comparable - they might be just as bad - but I don't think in both cases you are putting your children in a position to hassled on the playground because you tend to be strategic, vs. someone who drinks vodka straight from the bottle in a hotel room to prepare for their husband to touch them. After publicly humiliating him week after week for grievances such as talking with his mouth full, not taking a glass of water to bed, or daring to eat chips and salsa before dinner. And of course telling the world that you don't sleep with your husband and haven't for years.

 

I actually like Shannon. I don't feel sorry for her, and think any issues that might arise regarding her children are entirely her fault and her fault alone, but I think she has some good qualities and a good heart. I just don't want to hear her, or anyone else, who decides to air the dirty laundry that is the mess of their marriage try to blame others for the impact that might have on her kids. 

Edited July 20, 2014 by Lisin

[Trooper York]

Well I think that they will mock the Dubrow kids because their Mom is Cindy Lou Who.

[Brooke0707]

Wow, Heather and Tamra sure were disgusting in that preview - absolutely delighted that Shannon was so upset.  And Heather feigning concern and being all "should we call an ambulance?  I think she is having a psychotic break" was just gross.  What a shitty creature.  And even when Shannon came in to apologize and say goodnight, Tamra was STILL trying to stir shit and scream as Shannon was talking.  Meanwhile, Heather had this totally psychotic and scary look on her face - she had this fake ass smile plastered on, mixed with "I'm so concerned for you" eyes and if anyone needed a mental health intervention that night, I think it was her.  Yuck, those two women are toxic.

 

And I guess even Heather thinks she kicked Shannon out of her home since she was proudly bragging about it to Danielle at the dinner table and explicitly used the phrase "kicked out."

 

This feels very strange, but I was actually nodding along as Vicki spoke.  What has the world come to?

 

I really wish one of these women would go up against Tamra.  Maybe Lizzie will?  It seems like she knew what was up.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Brooke0707

[lunastartron]

I am not sure what difference it would have made if Heather had this info to talk about with her friends. Wouldn't they have seen the breakdown themselves on their TV, since Shannon decided to behave in such a manner with TV cameras present? I simply cannot get past the fact that if Shannon's kids are traumatized by what they learn about their mothers mental health or their parents marriage, or what the kids on the playground use to taunt them with, it wasn't manufactured gossip used by Heather to make her look bad. It was based on the words she used about her marriage, the behavior she displayed, and the way she reacted.

 

    I disagree with this premise. Shannon is not responsible for the (in my view) malicious and intentional mischaracterization of her reaction at the party as indicative of psychiatric problems that required an "ambulance" and suggested a "breakdown." She hit a frustration point, and once she became irate, made the move away from the individuals with whom she was engaged and requested, repeatedly, that Tamra and Lizzie leave her alone. Both refused. Heather had the opportunity for a clear view through a transparent, illuminated glass door of Tamra grabbing Shannon and violating her physical space. It is a conscious misconstruction on her part, and a seriously irresponsible one, to diagnose mental health problems. Should Shannon have so much emotion invested in what Heather thinks of her? Nope. But, just as Heather does not control Shannon's reaction, neither does Shannon control whether or not Heather elects to insert disgusting intimations about the state of Shannon's psychological stability into the discourse. Those are definitely manufactured narratives from what I watched.

Edited July 21, 2014 by lunastartron

[islandgal140]

I must again reiterate my admiration for Shannon's husband David. Not saying he is an angel, a great husband or not somehow at fault for whatever marital issues he and Shannon have. I just think in this particular situation he performed admirably and I would want my man to act the same if confronted with similar circumstances. I would say he is one of two househusbands that is able to get involved in the show, interject in an argument to defend his woman and not come across like a bitch made man trying to become a HW himself. The other man I think is Michael Ohoven from RHOBH who is married to that pageant chick. Is if fucked up that I can remember his name but not hers? At the other end of the spectrum are Peter of ATL, Slade and Miss Terry of this franchise. Even Brooks for all his smariness seems to stay in his lane.

Heather actually admitted to kicking Shannon out of her house so I hope that ends the semantics argument of whether being asked to leave is the same as being kicked out.

Heather's facial expressions throughout the entire preview just made me stabby. Her acting like she was on the verge of tears with Tamra was some WTFery.

I think Vicki is right Tamra is afraid of Heather or at least doesn't want to be on the wrong side of Heather. First, Tamra flat out admitted as much earlier in the season. Secondly, Tamra just seemed to be tap dancing as fast and hard as she could these last two episodes all in an attempt to pull focus off her own weasly ass. Tamra just seemed intent on not letting Shannon talk which indicates to me that Tamra didn't want any more truths coming out that night. Plus, she just was controlling the narrative and framing the arguments by dragging individuals out on the balcony. Worst of all she was the one that started all the mischaracterizations of Shannon's behavior. She immediately alluded that Shannon MUST be drunk in round 1 of pulling Heather aside and then later she was flat out saying that Shannon was having some kind of mental breakdown. She admitted to trying to restrain her like some kind of human straight jacket and made a motion like Shannon broke that 'restraint' like some kind of she-hulk. Can't say that Tamra doesn't think on her feet.

[psychoticstate]

As awful as the suggestion for an ambulance for Shannon was, I will reserve all my hatred for Tamra.  Between putting her hands on Shannon, getting all up in her face (after she's been asked to walk away) and then playing the surprised and innocent in this with Heather, I want to punch her in her See You Next Tuesday. 

 

If EVERYONE doesn't let her have it at the reunion, including Andy, I will be done with this show.  How can Heather watch these episodes and not see how Tamra has manipulated the situation with Shannon? 

[motorcitymom65]

I disagree with this premise. Shannon is not responsible for the (in my view) malicious and intentional mischaracterization of her reaction at the party as indicative of psychiatric problems that required an "ambulance" and suggested a "breakdown." She hit a frustration point, and once she became irate, made the move away from the individuals with whom she was engaged and requested, repeatedly, that Tamra and Lizzie leave her alone. Both refused. Heather had the opportunity for a clear view through a transparent, illuminated glass door of Tamra grabbing Shannon and violating her physical space. It is a conscious misconstruction on her part, and a seriously irresponsible one, to diagnose mental health problems. Should Shannon have so much emotion invested in what Heather thinks of her? Nope. But, just as Heather does not control Shannon's reaction, neither does Shannon control whether or not Heather elects to insert disgusting intimations about the state of Shannon's psychological stability into the discourse. Those are definitely manufactured narratives from what I watched.

I don't entirely disagree, but I didn't understand until I viewed it a second time that almost all of Shannon's passion and frustration takes place away from Heather. She leaves the balcony and walks through the house screaming about everyone seeing the truth, and then goes out the front. Heather is still out back on the patio. Shannon is on the front porch with Tamra and Lizzie when she is at her most distraught. Tamra then goes in and relays to Heather that "it is bad", as Heather didn't see it. She says she tried to restrain Shannon and that she is afraid she is having a breakdown. Tamra seems intent on painting it all in the most serious light.

I agree with others, I hope Tamra gets her ass kicked at the reunion. My assumption is that this next episode marks the end of the Shannon/Heather drama. I think they will work through it and we move to the next phase, which I assume is Tamra and Lizzie. We don't have many episodes left and the big trip is coming. Something happens that is bad enough to send Tammie running barefoot around a pool that looks strangely close to one I saw at a Holiday Inn Holidome one time. Since apparently Lizzie left the reunion in tears after a fight with Tamra and didn't return, it must be a doozy of a fight that they will need a few episodes to get set-up.

[zoeysmom]

But do you think that other kids at school will taunt the Dubrow kids because their mom is manipulative and lying? Are kids aware of these things? I tend to think that they may make fun of them because they cannot have a cookie or onion rings, but I find it hard to believe that there is much else that the kids at school would mock them for with regard to their mom. Aside from the fact that she has sunk low enough to be on a reality show, but then that is a level playing field with these gals.

 

I use to hear a similar argument against Kyle on the BH blogs. Folks would often mention (me included) that Brandi was doing her kids no favors. That her behavior was putting her children in a position to be mocked for things outside of their control. I often heard others saying that Kyle's girls were in just as much jeopardy because she was so manipulative. Again, I just don't think the two things are comparable - they might be just as bad - but I don't think in both cases you are putting your children in a position to hassled on the playground because you tend to be strategic, vs. someone who drinks vodka straight from the bottle in a hotel room to prepare for their husband to touch them. After publicly humiliating him week after week for grievances such as talking with his mouth full, not taking a glass of water to bed, or daring to eat chips and salsa before dinner. And of course telling the world that you don't sleep with your husband and haven't for years.

 

I actually like Shannon. I don't feel sorry for her, and think any issues that might arise regarding her children are entirely her fault and her fault alone, but I think she has some good qualities and a good heart. I just don't want to hear her, or anyone else, who decides to air the dirty laundry that is the mess of their marriage try to blame others for the impact that might have on her kids. 

Brandi (so many things from arrest to the tampon string and the books, Teresa Giudice (arrest and table flipping) and Danielle Staub (porno film)  stand alone as HWs with behavior that is guaranteed to get their kids teased.  The rest so far pale in comparison.  There are new housewives and many more seasons to come so I am certain the club will get bigger.  I think doing a reality show does open kids up both to notoriety and the possibility of taunting. 

 

I personally don't think either Shannon or Heather's behavior will be the subject of playground mockery as I don't think there are a lot of kids that watch the show. Lying however seems to be a hot button with people of all ages.  I never thought Kyle's kids were in danger of playground gossip until the tabloid rumors about infidelity and then only the oldest three.   

 

My only thought was that the word divorce was used in the telephone game between Tamra and Heather. Since Shannon never said divorce to Tamra it was wrong to use the word.  Bad behavior aside on Shannon's part, it would be unfortunate for any child to hear that their parents are divorcing as the result of idle or malicious gossip.  That is the only reason I can think of that make Shannon say-mother to mother-otherwise I didn't think it applied.  Shannon impressed me by saying she used poor judgment in confiding in Tamra. 

[demarti]

 

 

If EVERYONE doesn't let her have it at the reunion, including Andy, I will be done with this show.  How can Heather watch these episodes and not see how Tamra has manipulated the situation with Shannon? 

The same way Eddie can watch these episodes and not be sickened at the realization that he married that bitch and kick her out of his house asap. 

[DeeplyShallow]

This is also the same sick & twisted bitch who orchestrated the near rape of her dinner guest (Naked Wasted, anyone?) all those years ago and the only person to call her to task on it was Gretchen (the intended target). What was Trashbox's excuse for this disgusting act? Some dude she didn't know called her in the middle of the night to out Gretchen as a phony. What did Vicki do? She was right there, backing the Trashbox the whole time.

I think maybe Lynn made a weak attempt to defend Gretchen (maybe, I can't remember) but Jeana didn't. I can't stand Gretchen, but Naked Wasted, all those years back, revealed what a disgusting turd Tamra is. And, she's still here, many Housewives later.

All this to say, Tamra skated when she committed that heinous act, she'll probably skate by for being a manipulative shit stirrer. Or, maybe her luck has run out and we'll all be pleasantly surprised this time around.

[motorcitymom65]

This is also the same sick & twisted bitch who orchestrated the near rape of her dinner guest (Naked Wasted, anyone?) all those years ago and the only person to call her to task on it was Gretchen (the intended target). What was Trashbox's excuse for this disgusting act? Some dude she didn't know called her in the middle of the night to out Gretchen as a phony. What did Vicki do? She was right there, backing the Trashbox the whole time.

I think maybe Lynn made a weak attempt to defend Gretchen (maybe, I can't remember) but Jeana didn't. I can't stand Gretchen, but Naked Wasted, all those years back, revealed what a disgusting turd Tamra is. And, she's still here, many Housewives later.

All this to say, Tamra skated when she committed that heinous act, she'll probably skate by for being a manipulative shit stirrer. Or, maybe her luck has run out and we'll all be pleasantly surprised this time around.

Yea, more of this all day long.

 

When Vicks was saying in her TD shot that Tamra and Heather should put themselves in Shannon's place, of course I agree with that. It makes sense and shows empathy.  The problem is that Vicks has such a history of having no empathy - like with the Naked Wasted episode you mention - that it rings so hollow in my ears to hear her say things like this. 

[parisprincess]

almost all of Shannon's passion and frustration takes place away from Heather. She leaves the balcony and walks through the house screaming about everyone seeing the truth, and then goes out the front. Heather is still out back on the patio. Shannon is on the front porch with Tamra and Lizzie when she is at her most distraught.

 

At that point (outside, in front of the house), I think Shannon's distress was mostly brought on by the fact that Tamra wouldn't leave her alone and go away, as she had been asked to do several times.  The bitch's "oh, so concerned" act and grabbing at her was probably getting her more upset.  

[zoeysmom]

Yea, more of this all day long.

 

When Vicks was saying in her TD shot that Tamra and Heather should put themselves in Shannon's place, of course I agree with that. It makes sense and shows empathy.  The problem is that Vicks has such a history of having no empathy - like with the Naked Wasted episode you mention - that it rings so hollow in my ears to hear her say things like this. 

I think Vicki had to re-invent herself to move forward.  She seemed to click with Shannon perhaps because they were closer in age and Shannon isn't flashy?  I still think there will probably be a major Vicki moment in the remaining episodes.

 

Speaking of Vicki-after last week's Reunion photos, she may have redeemed herself in this dress.  Some sort of RH Hullabaloo in Las Vegas-odd assortment of RH. http://www.allabouttrh.com/photos-kyle-richards-vicki-gunvalson-kenya-moore-melissa-gorga-party-vegas/

 

She is with her attorney boyfriend not Brooks.

Edited July 21, 2014 by zoeysmom

[motorcitymom65]

At that point (outside, in front of the house), I think Shannon's distress was mostly brought on by the fact that Tamra wouldn't leave her alone and go away, as she had been asked to do several times.  The bitch's "oh, so concerned" act and grabbing at her was probably getting her more upset.

Exactly. I don't think Shannon would become so distraught if Tamra would have backed off. Tamra pokes away at her, then runs in to tell Heather she thinks she is having a break down.

One thing that was really interesting (that did make Shannon appear a little desperate and unhinged) is when she grabs Lizzie by the shoulders and pleadingly asks her if she yelled at Heather in her living room (Christmas party). I would be pissed as well, but she is more than pissed - she is desperate and I cannot figure out why this caused her to get to such a state, even with Tamra's hands on her.

[Grneyedldy]

I think Vicki had to re-invent herself to move forward.  She seemed to click with Shannon perhaps because they were closer in age and Shannon isn't flashy?  I still think there will probably be a major Vicki moment in the remaining episodes.

 

Speaking of Vicki-after last week's Reunion photos, she may have redeemed herself in this dress.  Some sort of RH Hullabaloo in Las Vegas-odd assortment of RH. http://www.allabouttrh.com/photos-kyle-richards-vicki-gunvalson-kenya-moore-melissa-gorga-party-vegas/

 

She is with her attorney boyfriend not Brooks.

Did I miss (in the article) the reason a gaggle of housewives were in Vegas? I assume some Bravo promo thing, as it looks like one housewife per franchise except for.....................WTF is Jill Zarin doing there? Was she just in the neighborhood? Oh Jillzy, you're as delusional as Lady Morgan.

As for Vicki's new beau, I remember when this first came out in the press. I didn't believe it. I thought Vicki and Brooks just broke up? There has to be some catch. Just not buying it.

[msblossom]

I've never liked Heather. From day one, I thought she was a conceited, sly bitch -- but I didn't hate her.

Tamra, otoh, is just trashy, hateful and two-faced -- full of piss and vinegar. The way she put her body in between Shannon and David and then stayed on top of her like a dog in heat, yelling, putting her hands on Shannon and trying to cover Shannon's mouth SAYS IT ALL about this lying sack-of-trailer-trash. Nothing is beneath her for the almighty dollar. She's singing for her soup that Bravo is paying out because she has ZERO to make a nice life for herself. Shannon is a nice target for her now that Gretchen and Alexis are out.

Edited July 21, 2014 by msblossom

[JAYJAY1979]

I remember during the chairgate episode how Heather kept saying how Shannon was yelling, etc.. and Shannon started to react but Lizzie told her to just let it go.  At the time, I was thinking that Lizzie was siding with Heather, but after seeing the last episode and the first look, I'm wondering if Lizzie told Shannon to let it go because she knew if Shannon said anything, that it would just reinforce what Heather was saying?

 

I'm thinking that Shannon totally broke from the script with her break-down.  Just like last year's finale party where the main issue was suppose to just be Slade/Gretchen vs everyone else until Vicki's son in law got hostile with Lydia's mother which was totally unscripted with Ryan acting all hostile while Lydia was crying and pratically being held back by her husband from giving Ryan a piece of her mind.

[charming]

Ugh, the chair incident. Heather kept saying, let it go, let it go, move on, it's not a big deal. Then as soon as Shannon left the table again, she suggests to the other women that they should switch chairs. Always being passive aggressive.

 

I never had strong feelings about Heather. I enjoyed her house and some of her parties but her personality was a little too ice princess for me to fully embrace her.

 

Looking back on it, the irony of her leading the charge to humiliate Alexis in Costa Rica is telling. Heather can't admit that she flat out despises Alexis for being a vapid fool. No, she has to cloak her attack as an "intervention" by a friend so Alexis doesn't "put out the wrong message to the community." Yes, I watched that scene again recently. She never let go of Alexis "maligning her career" because Alexis had the nerve to say that she never heard of the Heather Paige Kent.

 

I think Heather started being exposed last season by Lydia. She deliciously informed Ms. Heather that she wasn't famous enough to be on the cover of her magazine. Lydia, like Shannon, comes from a wealthy family. She wasn't intimidated by Heather & Terry. I also remember Heather curling her teeth when Lydia told her she was friends with Alexis. According to Heather's TH, your friends say a lot about you. This coming from someone who's got Tamra as her wingwoman! Hahaha.

 

Heather always wants to be perceived as the Queen. Nobody has a better life, career or home. Speaking of which, why couldn't Heather admit that she was neighbors with Shannon? Oh no we're in a community and then a sub community. Meaning, Heather's going to have a bigger house with a motorcourt so it's better. As she told her BFF, we are looking down on them.

 

Hideous. She couldn't even stomach riding in a mini van cab in Mexico. "The doors slide!" she sneered.

 

Tell me again what I am. Please. Make it worse. I'm done.

Edited July 21, 2014 by charming

[lunastartron]

Just rewatched "Point Break," and it constitutes an even more definitive indictment of Heather at second glance. Initially, I did extend Heather some benefit of the doubt vis-à-vis whether or not she witnessed Tamra's aggression. There was only a glass door separating her from the other two women during their scuffle with no significant impediment obscuring her view; however, I thought perhaps she only had the *opportunity* to see the violations of Shannon's physical space- ie maybe she was engaged with Terry or turned away from the interior of the house. But, nope, Tamra begins the face-grabbing directly in front of Heather, and it was clear, at least to me, that the contact contributed immediately to Shannon's escalating anger and outrage. Listening to Heather's amateur psychiatric diagnoses and soap-box pontifications about the dubious validity of holistic medicine this episode was stomach-turning. She has a habit of piping up with irresponsible and ugly opinions about the mental health of others; I distinctly recall when she appointed herself arbiter of whether or not Alexis should have been prescribed Xanax. Discussing behavior in the context of etiquette and social codes is the sine qua non of this program, but, for me, introducing intellectually dishonest plot points about the non-existent psychological disorders of others is unethical and monstrous.

 

It is especially galling to behold Heather grotesquely wax expert without an MD when she invokes her husband's irreproachable presence in the same breath, as she did at the luncheon with Tamra and Danielle. This was the man who felt no qualms with respect to either professional ethics or plain manners about talking shit on another practicioner's patient while she was all of five feet away. But it was okay, Heather protested, because she and Terry are too stupid to connect "Lex" as a derivation of "Alexis."

 

 

 

Ugh, the chair incident. Heather kept saying, let it go, let it go, move on, it's not a big deal. Then as soon as Shannon left the table again, she suggests to the other women that they should switch chairs. Always being passive aggressive.

 

I never had strong feelings about Heather. I enjoyed her house and some of her parties but her personality was a little too ice princess for me to fully embrace her.

 

Looking back on it, the irony of her leading the charge to humiliate Alexis in Costa Rica is telling. Heather can't admit that she flat out despises Alexis for being a vapid fool. No, she has to cloak her attack as an "intervention" by a friend so Alexis doesn't "put out the wrong message to the community." Yes, I watched that scene again recently. She never let go of Alexis "maligning her career" because Alexis had the nerve to say that she never heard of the Heather Paige Kent.

 

I think Heather started being exposed last season by Lydia. She deliciously informed Ms. Heather that she wasn't famous enough to be on the cover of her magazine. Lydia, like Shannon, comes from a wealthy family. She wasn't intimidated by Heather & Terry. I also remember Heather curling her teeth when Lydia told her she was friends with Alexis. According to Heather's TH, your friends say a lot about you. This coming from someone who's got Tamra as her wingwoman! Hahaha.

 

Heather always wants to be perceived as the Queen. Nobody has a better life, career or home. Speaking of which, why couldn't Heather admit that she was neighbors with Shannon? Oh no we're in a community and then a sub community. Meaning, Heather's going to have a bigger house with a motorcourt so it's better. As she told her BFF, we are looking down on them.

 

Hideous. She couldn't even stomach riding in a mini van cab in Mexico. "The doors slide!" she sneered.

 

Tell me again what I am. Please. Make it worse. I'm done.

 

And we're in for Costa Rica: the Bali coda. Faux concern about the target of her nonsensical hatred? Check. Premeditation and orchestration with third and fourth parties about confronting said target in a professionally obligatory setting in which she'll have no opportunity to remove herself once Heather and her coven begin attacking her? Check. However, we know from the previews that Miss Terry is going to elbow Heather out of Queen Bee/Heather Chandler position by calling David a "penis." But, but, "stop pointing fingers at my husband!"

 

Other mind-blowing moment: Tamra admitting she blacks out. Exactly what does a mother have to do beyond exhorting her son to perpetrate sexual assault on camera and acting cute about drinking to the point of not remembering things in order to lose custody of her children in the California judicial system?

[FlyingEgret]

If Tamra can't remember most of what happened at that dinner party, she should probably worry about her own drinking problem instead of focusing on whether or not Shannon has one.

And I really wish when Tamra told Eddie she was having a nervous breakdown he would have asked her if he should call an ambulance...

[TexasGal]

Tamra's "breakdown" with the yelling and slamming things and sobbing but no tears....how did no one just bust out laughing?

[farmgal4]

Tamra is a hot psychotic mess. I can't remember how old she is but maybe she's going thru menopause, maybe she really is psycho, but there's definitely SOMETHING wrong with her this season, more so than prior seasons. Eddie needs to run for the hills, but he's probably afraid that she'll either kill him or herself if he tries to leave her. What do you guys think? Is it all just faked for the cameras?

Edited July 22, 2014 by farmgal4

[gatopretoNYC]

What the HELL was that?? No wonder Tamra's son is moving away from her! What a nutjob! So self-centered. Way to welcome your daughter-in-law to be to the family - crying & freaking out. Sheesh.

 

If Tamra can't remember most of what happened at that dinner party, she should probably worry about her own drinking problem instead of focusing on whether or not Shannon has one.
 

 

Exactly!

[poeticlicensed]

Tamra having a hissy fit over her trollish son getting married was hilariously badly acted. Even Eddie couldn't keep from smirking while Tamra wailed about. 

 

Brianna and Vicki are totally codependent. It's probably best for her to move far away. Loved how Brooks is pushing to move in while Vicki tells Brianna he's not. 

 

The rest of the episode was forgettable. 

[Grneyedldy]

I thought Tamra's act from beginning to end was phony. She's injected so much crap into her face, she can hardly speak. And just give it up Tamra, we are never going to buy your phoning crying.

[SlovakPrincess]

Here's something not to ask a person you just met - "how did your parents die?" "How did your dad kill himself?" 

 

And then Tamra throws a tantrum and weeps all over the place ...
And Eddie just stares and smiles nervously like a deer in headlights ...
And Ryan's scary beard devours the world ...

 

Run from this family, Sarah!  Run like the wind!

 

I thought I was drunk enough to watch this show ... I was wrong ...

Edited July 22, 2014 by SlovakPrincess