S40.E14: It All Boils Down to This

[Growsonwalls]

6 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I have to say, with all the talk of gender bias, about how few women have won in the last few years ... if these "woke" millennials, Adam, Nick and Wendell, (and Danni, a Gen X-er) seriously considered it to be a huge breach of justice if a woman, and a woman of color, would happen to win, and this would be so unacceptable in their eyes, they couldn't vote for their BFF Michele to make sure this injustice didn't happen ... that says a lot about them.

I really hope this is spin from Michele and not a thing that happened. Tony was absolutely a deserving winner, but if these votes cast for the winner of an all-winners season were actually anti-votes to ensure a woman (even an Edge of Extinction returnee) didn't win ...

Yikes.

Huh? They might not have felt Natalie deserved to win because she was the first one voted out. So they didn't.

In Survivor no one owes you a vote. They vote however they want and some reasons are dumber than others but hey, that's the game. I actually think the EoE makes people less likely to be completely rational because of the constant starvation.

As for the EoE clique, something seemed really off with Danni this whole game. On EoE she seemed lifeless and miserable. I wonder if she just didn't get on with the rest of the cast that much. 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Huh? They might not have felt Natalie deserved to win because she was the first one voted out. So they didn't.

In Survivor no one owes you a vote. They vote however they want and some reasons are dumber than others but hey, that's the game. I actually think the EoE makes people less likely to be completely rational because of the constant starvation.

As for the EoE clique, something seemed really off with Danni this whole game. On EoE she seemed lifeless and miserable. I wonder if she just didn't get on with the rest of the cast that much. 

For the record, I believe the OP took a step back from this theory after some additional info about Natalie came out. It's further up on page 5.

Edited May 15, 2020 by tracyscott76
Fixing my page reference

[Grrarrggh]

People are either lying to themselves (wishful thinking) or blind if they don't think that the women and people of colour who play Survivor haven't been working against biases. It's as simple, and sad, as that. I'm sorry some people just can't accept it. 

[EllenB]

I'm still scratching my head over Danni and Ambuh getting "shut out" of their group of three by Natalie.  How does one person manage that?  Maybe she felt shut out by them.

I don't like Rob, but that's Jeffy's fault.  For years, he has set Rob up as the greatest player and biggest expert on Survivor, and ol' Rob just lapped it up.  So he thinks it's fine for him to boss other players around, like in emptying their bags, because Jeffy said over and over how special he is.  And it's why his questions at FTC stood out in a bad way, because he sounded like he was schooling another player (who has won as many seasons as he did) on how she SHOULD have played.  Rob, I don't do math, but I think your one win percentage out of the times you've played isn't really all that impressive compared to a lot of these other winners.  Just saying, so siddown and shut up, mkay?

I still like Sarah.  I think her deadpan face turns some viewers away from her, but that's on those viewers, not her.  And anyone who inspires the loyalty of players like Sophie and Tony and Ben must be doing something right.  For all we know, there were others who felt the same way.

Four players I'd sit next to on a plane ride?  Sophie, Sandra, Jeremy, and Sarah, I guess - I love Tony but don't think he'd be tolerable in captivity.  But I'd trade them all for Cirie and Penner.

[ByaNose]

3 minutes ago, EllenB said:

I'm still scratching my head over Danni and Ambuh getting "shut out" of their group of three by Natalie.  How does one person manage that?  Maybe she felt shut out by them.

I don't like Rob, but that's Jeffy's fault.  For years, he has set Rob up as the greatest player and biggest expert on Survivor, and ol' Rob just lapped it up.  So he thinks it's fine for him to boss other players around, like in emptying their bags, because Jeffy said over and over how special he is.  And it's why his questions at FTC stood out in a bad way, because he sounded like he was schooling another player (who has won as many seasons as he did) on how she SHOULD have played.  Rob, I don't do math, but I think your one win percentage out of the times you've played isn't really all that impressive compared to a lot of these other winners.  Just saying, so siddown and shut up, mkay?

I still like Sarah.  I think her deadpan face turns some viewers away from her, but that's on those viewers, not her.  And anyone who inspires the loyalty of players like Sophie and Tony and Ben must be doing something right.  For all we know, there were others who felt the same way.

Four players I'd sit next to on a plane ride?  Sophie, Sandra, Jeremy, and Sarah, I guess - I love Tony but don't think he'd be tolerable in captivity.  But I'd trade them all for Cirie and Penner.

I’ve always thought it was interesting after the game & Final vote they all party it up at Ponderosa. Then they get on a plane & head back home the next day. I’ve seen pictures where they are all sitting next to each other (I guess with who they want to) and, take selfies and check each other’s phones out. I guess that’s how it should be, right? Most of pre jurors meet up at a certain location and try to get the 411 on what happened after they left. The only time this didn’t happen was during All-Stars. Rob and Amber flew home on a different plane because the whole jury hated them and either the cast or Romber didn’t think it was a good idea that they were all on the same flight. Too funny? All-Stars seems so long ago. 17 years to be exact. 

[eelpout]

7 hours ago, Eolivet said:

And, like it or not, Natalie is still a woman of color -- and they can claim all they want that had no impact, but it's a fact that doesn't go away because they want it to. If Michele is telling the truth, they ganged up to ensure a woman of color would not win. Edge of Extinction returnee or not, their intent doesn't change fact.
 

my problem with Natalie is... "TWINNIE!!!" Will never get that annoying (TAR) yell out of my head. 😉

Speaking of which, caught that brief preview of Phil Keoghan hosting a different reality competition show ("Tough as Nails"). Is that allowed?!? 😀

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by eelpout

[violet and green]

6 hours ago, Jobiska said:

The oo-OOO call, which I don't remember--was it a Tony thing in his previous seasons?--seemed this season to just sort of come out of nowhere at the end--but it seemed to gain more importance here--Sarah calling it to a dejected Tony as she left, then Tony calling it to N/M as he came to the shelter with the breakfast note.  

I think Tony made it up, only because I saw him doing it pretty well all season. It seemed like an all-purpose tribal signature cry. He used it to rally them to come together when there was a message about the next challenge, he did it coming back from a challenge either like a victory cry or a hello to their camp or something, and then it took on that beautiful meaning of tribal unity even in vote out when Nick called it our mournfully after he was voted off. I really loved it.

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I am also super curious about who the clique was, but since this comes from Danni, who blew up her own game out of paranoia, it might just be something she imagined.

It sounds like Danni's vote off didn't really go how the show made it look. But also, I agree that you gotta take Danni's account of things with a grain of salt because she's giving her perspective while someone else might have seen things differently. The thing about Rob and Natalie stealing the pb was apparently confirmed by others though.

4 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Ooh, I'd like to know more about ... the huge fight between Natalie and Yul. Like, of all people to get in a huge fight, Yul is not the first one to spring to mind. 

By what Danni said it sounds like it was just Natalie yelling at Yul for like excluding himself by going fishing and that making him selfish or something and Wendell coming to his defense. It didn't see like Yul really did or said much lol.

4 hours ago, skybolt said:

Also, I haven't watched Amazing Race in many years, but would tune in if [Sarah and Tony] played together. Can you imagine the bickering as they get lost driving to their destination? Tony, the non traveler, would be funny at the airport trying to get on a flight.

I would love to see this.

[violet and green]

19 hours ago, deirdra said:

How exactly did old, fat, bitter, bullying Rob Mariano expect Natalie to get rid of Tony?  Fire-building always has an element of luck to it.

I expect he expected Natalie to do what Chris Underwood did - which was take off his necklace and prove he was a mighty contender for the title by chancing everything and backing his firemaking skills - that's how the last EoE member was able to go on to win Survivor. Natalie didn't back herself on that.

But maybe Rob was just being polite and diplomatic, maybe what he really wanted to say was something like: "Natalie, you are a young, fit, smug, bullying player who I didn't want to vote for in a million years, and you came back from Extinction because of those dumb fire tokens, having been so clueless you were the very first boot, you were rude to my wife, I never like ya, sorreee!" Who knows.

---

On another note, all you people who didn't notice Rob was fit as fuck by the end may not have realized that putting on the podge is (a) a really good strategy for playing Survivor, and (b) something that naturally happens to many humans with busy working and family lives as they reach their more mature years, unless they put great mental and physical effort into fighting it.

And while I'm at it, if so many are all in a huff about gender bias and racial bias, maybe pause and consider your own age bias, which is pretty tiresome.

Ageing is something that also happens to humans if they're lucky enough to get to stick around on the planet. I hope you all get to experience it.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

The thing about Rob and Natalie stealing the pb was apparently confirmed by others though.

I still question the "Rob and Natalie barely let Amber have any" part. Whatever you think of Rob, that doesn't sound quite right.

QUOTE:

"By what Danni said it sounds like it was just Natalie yelling at Yul for like excluding himself by going fishing and that making him selfish or something and Wendell coming to his defense. It didn't see like Yul really did or said much lol."

This, however, sounds exactly right XD

Edited May 15, 2020 by tracyscott76
Quoting weirdness

[peachmangosteen]

4 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

I still question the "Rob and Natalie barely let Amber have any" part. Whatever you think of Rob, that doesn't sound quite right.

lol right! I think it was probably more like Ron and Natalie ate a lot of it and Amber happened to not just go to it and eat it as much. It sounds like Danni/Parv/Ethan were rationing it equally and the other threesome just weren't doing it that kind of structured/planned way.

[Steph Sometimes]

I want to play the airplane game. From this group, I'd want someone who has a calming effect. So not Tony as entertaining as I find him. I think Yul, Sophie and Jeremy.

If we're expanding to any player ever, and I can be the littlest bit shallow... maybe Malcolm. 

[violet and green]

On 5/15/2020 at 12:19 AM, nutty1 said:

Interesting quote form Michele in an ET interview....

""I knew that Adam, Nick, Wendell, and Danni were actually on the cusp of voting for me, and they voted for Tony. And I've talked to them about this post-game. They all, as soon as the votes were read, and they came to me and they told me that there was a situation that Natalie could have potentially won. So instead, they sided with Tony, just to make sure that the right person won the season."

She wasn't bothered about getting no votes, at all! Ha. I noticed as the first votes came in that didn't mention her name she started flicking her hair back with her hand (hair looked great, by the way), and then every next vote that also wasn't her she'd do a hair touch or flick. She even used multiple hands at one point, left! right! left! Smoothe that hair, flatten that discomfort.

For me, having been stunned by her win in KR, and then deeply irritated by both her whining and mooning about over Wendell and her over-share of the available aka scant airtime, most episodes this season, I came to the conclusion that Michele was the ultimate comparison goat - and her final tribal pitch didn't help her. "I was on the wrong side of the votes, I couldn't get anyone to align with me beyond the odd person for the odd period, you kept my spirits up with your pity tokens, poor valiant me" - it really underplayed what she did, which was win two immunities (and that is nothing to sneeze at, but not enough in that company), and manage to outlast all the people sitting on the jury.

To be running around now and saying in effect, 'My fwends weally, weally wanted to vote for me, but they had to make sure that other woman didn't win" is delusional, and if even half-true, is poor sportswomanship in the extreme.

Natalie did more in those last few days, and gave more to her game in brute energy alone than Michele did in over a month. I still didn't want Natalie to win, but if Michele had won it would have been a travesty.

[Artsda]

Tony played hard, didn't get voted out and somehow was always safe at tribal despite being a huge target. He deserved that win.

Natalie's face when the votes stopped being a tie was total pissed. She did not have a poker face. 

 

[violet and green]

12 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Tony played hard, didn't get voted out and somehow was always safe at tribal despite being a huge target. He deserved that win.

Natalie's face when the votes stopped being a tie was total pissed. She did not have a poker face. 

 

To me, she just looked a bit shocked, disappointed, and maybe annoyed - but it was hard to tell with the blurry zoom vision. But I also noticed on rewatch she did a lot of hair flicking and touching also!

[fishcakes]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

By what Danni said it sounds like it was just Natalie yelling at Yul for like excluding himself by going fishing and that making him selfish or something and Wendell coming to his defense. It didn't see like Yul really did or said much lol.

Kind of ironic in light of her acknowledging that she kept to herself and didn't talk to people her last few days at EoE. I also can't see Yul fighting with anyone over something so stupid. He'd fight if it were worth fighting about, but if she was shrieking (I assume she was shrieking because I saw her on TAR) at him about going fishing, he'd probably just stand there looking concerned and wondering if she was all right. It's interesting that all of the stuff coming out about her now makes it seem like she got a good edit both here and in her first season.

1 hour ago, violet and green said:

On another note, all you people who didn't notice Rob was fit as fuck by the end may not have realized that putting on the podge is (a) a really good strategy for playing Survivor, and (b) something that naturally happens to many humans with busy working and family lives as they reach their more mature years, unless they put great mental and physical effort into fighting it.

Also, even going back to Marquesas, he's always been heavier coming into the game and then at the reunion. I think he's just naturally a bit of a portly gentleman, but still very fit. When his brother came out for one of the family visits, he was a bit chubby and he and Rob talked about how he'd lost weight, so a little extra weight is probably genetic. He's got a dad bod (as does Nick), but I'd hardly call him fat.

37 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Natalie's face when the votes stopped being a tie was total pissed. She did not have a poker face.

Ha, yeah, she was mad, which I don't really get because she had to know winning was a long shot but based on her face it seems like she thought she had it in the bag.

Edited May 16, 2020 by fishcakes

[Kendra143]

After reading Sara Lacina’s Survivor bio and her long, very long list of pet peeves I think she would be a difficult person to be around. That chip on her shoulder is way too big. 

[Nashville]

• UO#1: I’m pretty sure I enjoyed this finale format more than any other in the past decade or so.
• UO#2: I agree with Baahstun Raahb that Natalie should have gone for the F4 fire challenge.  More on that below. 

That being said...

On 5/13/2020 at 10:11 PM, enchantingmonkey said:

Perhaps Natalie believed she had a chance to win?  She looked kinda pissed.  

Yeah - like OctaMom looked kinda pregnant.

 

On 5/13/2020 at 11:14 PM, Shadow Wave said:

Curious...Tony said that he had "mortgages" (plural) that he could now pay off. Makes me wonder if he borrowed money to invest in rental properties where tenants are not able to pay the rent now. Of course, it could be a summer cottage or something for his parents, too.

I figured after Tony’s first win he either (a) invested in some rental and/or flip properties, or (b) had every relative and their cat hitting him up to pay off their own mortgages and other debts.

 

On 5/14/2020 at 6:57 AM, Haleth said:

WTF was with Ben quitting before the second TC?  It was more important to him to have friends than to continue competing for the $2mill?  Where did that come from?  

Ben’s ass, most likely.  
My own personal suspicion?  After Denise’s departure Ben took off his shoes, did some counting, and realized the only way he was making it to FTC was to be dragged along by a pair (either Tony/Sarah or Natalie/Michele) as a goat who could block the remnant of the other pair at the F4 fire challenge - and his pride wouldn’t permit that.

Quote

Was Rob saying Nat should have done the fire challenge herself?

Yes, and for once I agreed with BRob. Because here’s the thing: Natalie didn’t actually play Survivor - at least, not more than about 5-6 days worth.  

Nat got voted out on Day 2 and came back on Day 35, which meant for more than a month of the season Nat was playing EoE, not Survivor - and while Survivor and EoE are both components of a season of Survivor, they are two very different games with different rules.  

Now in no way / shape / form am I suggesting Nat’s extended EoE tour disqualifies her from winning, but it does put additional conditions upon her.  When Nat entered the game the other five players each had had to participate in a dozen immunity challenges and survive a dozen tribal councils -while Nat herself had only participated in one IC, and she had never survived so much as a single TC.  And yes Nat had to endure her own trials and tribulations on EoE - but:

1. Many of the EoE trials would not translate well to the classical Survivor game environment into which Nat had just relocated.
2. Relatively speaking, EoE strategy is nonexistent - the only correlation being the accumulation of Fire tokens.
3. Likewise, the EoE social game is extremely attenuated compared to the classic Survivor game; the lack of ANY threat of involuntary eviction allows Nat the liberty to engage in (anti-)social behavior to a degree which would get her booted off the island PDQ.

And as I said before, these differences don’t disqualify Nat - but it would be totally disingenuous to pretend Nat doesn’t have a king-sized hole in her Survivor resume to put up against her competition, and her options to improve upon that are extremely limited.  

So why didn’t Natalie go for the fire?  Simple - Natalie told us why:

1. Nat felt the basic fact of winning her way back in from EoE was an award-worthy accomplishment - and whether or not you agree with Nat on that point, she totally failed to recognize the optics that starting off with triple the advantages of any other EoE contestant and still barely eking out a win might diminish her accomplishment to some degree in the eyes of the Jury.  Not to mention the fact ALL of the jurors had vied - unsuccessfully - to overcome Natalie’s tremendous advantage might make them a trifle less amenable to accepting Natalie’s assertion.
2. IMHO where Natalie REALLY shot herself in the foot, though, was her frank acknowledgment she was scared of losing to Tony in a fire challenge - which in and of itself was a tacit admission Natalie considered Tony an opponent superior to herself.  And if Natalie thinks so - strongly enough to pass up one of her few opportunities to bolster her pitifully small classic Survivor resume - then why shouldn’t the jury?

 

Quote

There was no way to vote Tony out.

Vote Tony out?  No.

Knock Tony out by defeating him head-to-head in the F4 fire challenge?  Why the fuck not?  Doing so would have been a MAJOR feather in Natalie’s cap - simultaneously growing her game resume, getting rid of her primary competition, and diminishing the stature of her remaining competition all in one fell swoop. By actively avoiding such an opportunity, Natalie damaged her own endgame worse than anybody else could have.

[neece26]

Quote

Ha, yeah, she was mad, which I don't really get because she had to know winning was a long shot but based on her face it seems like she thought she had it in the bag

In her EW Dalton Ross interview, she says she was expecting more votes - specifically Amber and Danni's vote and a chance at Sophie's and Kim's.  That probably was the reason for the sour puss.

35 minutes ago, Nashville said:

WTF was with Ben quitting before the second TC?  It was more important to him to have friends than to continue competing for the $2mill?  Where did that come from?  

He was asked about this and said when Natalie returned with her info from the jury, he realized he had no shot at winning so he wanted to bow out and give Sarah a better chance with a big move on her resume to go against Tony.  

 

[MissEwa]

2 hours ago, neece26 said:

He was asked about this and said when Natalie returned with her info from the jury, he realized he had no shot at winning so he wanted to bow out and give Sarah a better chance with a big move on her resume to go against Tony.  

 

I don't get this. Yes, he had no shot against Sarah or Tony, but that's not a reason to offer yourself up as a sacrifice, it's a reason to flip. No matter what Natalie said on her return from EoE, I can't believe someone with an ego the size of Ben's wouldn't think he had a chance against Natalie or Michele, especially if he had voting out Sarah and breaking up the power couple on his resume.

And had he done that and then beaten Tony at fire at F3, I think he potentially could have won. Which I would have HATED, but what he did instead was baffling to me. 

[30 Helens]

18 hours ago, nutty1 said:

He said they don't really go out a lot or go on vacations. Perhaps he invested his initial winnings wisely and bought a really nice home. When he spoke of mortgages (plural), it made me think he also owns some rentals. He may be really smart with his money.

Tony did, indeed, buy some investment properties with his first winnings. I can only hope that one of those properties was a really fancy spy shack.

16 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I have to say, with all the talk of gender bias, about how few women have won in the last few years ... if these "woke" millennials, Adam, Nick and Wendell, (and Danni, a Gen X-er) seriously considered it to be a huge breach of justice if a woman, and a woman of color, would happen to win, and this would be so unacceptable in their eyes, they couldn't vote for their BFF Michele to make sure this injustice didn't happen ... that says a lot about them.

I really hope this is spin from Michele and not a thing that happened. Tony was absolutely a deserving winner, but if these votes cast for the winner of an all-winners season were actually anti-votes to ensure a woman (even an Edge of Extinction returnee) didn't win ...

Yikes.

I had a completely different interpretation of Michele’s comments. I don’t think her supporters declined to cast votes for her to keep her from winning, but to ensure that Tony would win rather than Natalie.

In other words: I’m sure all the jurors had a good idea of how everyone else was voting.  Michele supporters would know that she had no way of winning, even with their votes. But, pulling votes away from Tony could ensure a Natalie win. If these Michele supporters felt Tony deserved to win over Natalie, they would cast their votes his way to make sure that happened.

In no way did Michele imply that this was done to deny a woman the victory. It was done to hand a win to their strong second choice when they couldn’t hand it to their first choice. Gender had nothing to do with it.

13 hours ago, Fallacy said:

I don’t think Rob seemed bitter at all. He asked Natalie two questions that were essential in explaining why Natalie lost the game: 1) why didn’t she take out Tony and 2) why did she stop socializing with people out on the edge. Those are the exact two reasons why she lost.

He was giving her a chance to defend her choices in both cases. It’s not his fault that her answers didn’t satisfy the jury. Rob is a very smart guy, and he knew what the jury was thinking about Natalie, so he spoke up and asked the two basic questions that were on everyone’s mind. I also didn’t hear a note of mocking or unkindness when he asked. He just asked them, calmly and cleanly. As with all things Boston Rob, his haters will see one thing and his fans will see something else. 

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[ethankoo]

1 hour ago, MissEwa said:

I don't get this. Yes, he had no shot against Sarah or Tony, but that's not a reason to offer yourself up as a sacrifice, it's a reason to flip. No matter what Natalie said on her return from EoE, I can't believe someone with an ego the size of Ben's wouldn't think he had a chance against Natalie or Michele, especially if he had voting out Sarah and breaking up the power couple on his resume.

And had he done that and then beaten Tony at fire at F3, I think he potentially could have won. Which I would have HATED, but what he did instead was baffling to me. 

Even if he beaten Tony at fire, I don't think that would have been enough to sway the jury.  He did nothing else through out the game.  I also think this would have actually given Natalie an extra boost in her resume, being able to successfully broke up the threesome by setting up Ben against Tony.  Ben mentioned he didn't want to get crucified by the jury, which is I think the main reason he offered himself to get voted off.  He has nothing to justify winning the game if he gets to the FTC.  He knows his win in HHH is controversial and he probably didn't want to go down the road again to have jury/people telling him he is undeserving.  

I would have love to see Sarah and Tony being part of the final 3.  People overlook that Sarah is really good at reading the game.  Remember Tony offered his idol to save Sarah at the TC when Kim was voted out.  It took a lot of guts to REJECT an idol.  If she took it from Tony, he would not have the idol to save himself at F6.  Sarah could have definitely build a strong case for herself if she got to the end.  I still think Tony would still win but it would have been a more interesting FTC. 

It sucks that Michele got no votes.  She is definitely second place in my opinion.  It's just that nobody hates or is bitter against Tony.  I have no idea why someone besides Jeremy would vote for Natalie.  Parv, Ethan and Tyson lost some points with me with their vote.  I give credit to Natalie for getting back into the game but her using 2 idols to save herself is ridiculous.  From the ponderosa's videos, almost everyone recognize how strong Tony's game is so to vote for Natalie makes no sense.  She played a different game at EOE and is nowhere close to the game Tony played.  Not to mention Natalie gets to buy advantages/disadvantages to use against the players in the game, which makes it even harder for them. 

 

[BrooklynRat]

On 5/13/2020 at 10:06 PM, MerBearHou said:

Teenagers??  Please no.  

This really can’t be said enough. Just no. NO!

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Also, even going back to Marquesas, he's always been heavier coming into the game and then at the reunion. I think he's just naturally a bit of a portly gentleman, but still very fit. When his brother came out for one of the family visits, he was a bit chubby and he and Rob talked about how he'd lost weight, so a little extra weight is probably genetic. He's got a dad bod (as does Nick), but I'd hardly call him fat.

Have you watched the Ponderosa vids yet? There's a little Ethan/Rob scene in one about their weights that is super adorable lol.

5 hours ago, ethankoo said:

I have no idea why someone besides Jeremy would vote for Natalie.  Parv, Ethan and Tyson lost some points with me with their vote.

Natalie and Tyson are close friends. Most people (all imo) are gonna vote for someone they love to win 2 mil over someone they barely know. Tyson point blank said this and I really respect him for just telling it like it is instead of trying to make up some other, more game-related reason why he voted how he did.

[fishcakes]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Have you watched the Ponderosa vids yet? There's a little Ethan/Rob scene in one about their weights that is super adorable lol.

I'm watching them right now and just got to that part.

Ethan: Someday I hope I can look obese like you.
Rob: Follow my lead. Follow my lead, skinny boy.

🤣

Edited May 16, 2020 by fishcakes

[3jt]

I'm not reading through 6 pages before I comment, so here goes. I really liked EVERYONE who played except Natalie, so I'm super glad that she did not win. I do not think that Michelle should have won her season, and was a bit bitter seeing her in the cast, but man, she won me over. I felt so bad for her not getting even 1 vote. I know that there are a LOT of people who do not like Ben, but I always have. 

If Jeff and team wanted to do something REALLY different this season, instead of throwing more crap into the game, they should have gone back to their roots and recreated the conditions of season 1. No HII, no stupid currency, no EOE. Minimal food, basic challenges, and conditions that will kick your ass. That is the show that I fell in love with, this show I don't get at all invested in. There are players that I really don't like for whatever reason, and players that I do, for whatever reason. Quite honestly though, I can't work up any give-a-shits as to outcomes.

[Blissfool]

On 5/14/2020 at 11:46 AM, preeya said:

I just cannot envision Tony as a police officer IRL.  His antics/personality on Survivor do not, IMO, fit that of a cop.

Did you watch the documentary McBillions on HBO? There is a detective (FBI agent?) on there thats seems to have a personality similar to Tony's. 

But I'll say that I actually like Tony.  That detective was obnoxious. 

Anyone who watched McBillions knows who I'm talking about. 

[Growsonwalls]

10 hours ago, ethankoo said:

It sucks that Michele got no votes.  She is definitely second place in my opinion.  It's just that nobody hates or is bitter against Tony.  I have no idea why someone besides Jeremy would vote for Natalie.  Parv, Ethan and Tyson lost some points with me with their vote.  

I think the early boots at EoE all were pretty close. It makes sense that they voted for Natalie. 

But the other thing is I think the producers didn't want a unanimous vote. I know some Survivors have talked about how they voted one way to make it a closer vote (Erik in Micronesia said he voted for Amanda to make it a closer vote when the entire jury was going to vote Parvati).

[jsm1125]

Something I found odd about Rob’s comment on Natalie being cliquey on EoE. Isn’t that how he won Redemption Island, by not having anything to do with the Zapateras (half of the people left at the merge)?

[Ms Blue Jay]

18 hours ago, Kendra143 said:

After reading Sara Lacina’s Survivor bio and her long, very long list of pet peeves I think she would be a difficult person to be around. That chip on her shoulder is way too big. 

Tony deserves to win double for even putting up with all of her bullshit.

[fishcakes]

56 minutes ago, jsm1125 said:

Something I found odd about Rob’s comment on Natalie being cliquey on EoE. Isn’t that how he won Redemption Island, by not having anything to do with the Zapateras (half of the people left at the merge)?

No, he instituted the buddy system so that no one on his tribe, including himself, was ever alone with any of the Zapateras. He talked to the Zapateras (in fact, Steve said they liked Rob and wished they could have worked with him) as did the rest of Ometepe, but only if there were at least two Ometepe present. He figured that would discourage anyone on his tribe from plotting with the Zapateras because then they would be risking getting ratted out.

With Natalie the issue seemed to be that the last few days, she went off by herself and didn't talk to anyone, and she seemed to agree that was true when he asked her about it at FTC. If so, that's not a smart thing to do in a game that still relies heavily on social connections.

Edited May 16, 2020 by fishcakes

[peachmangosteen]

39 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

No, he instituted the buddy system so that no one on his tribe, including himself, was ever alone with any of the Zapateras. He talked to the Zapateras (in fact, Steve said they liked Rob and wished they could have worked with him) as did the rest of Ometepe, but only if there were at least two Ometepe present. He figured that would discourage anyone on his tribe from plotting with the Zapateras because then they would be risking getting ratted out.

Seeing this again just makes me even more astonished that Rob was able to play the game he did in RI. It just boggles the mind!

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

No, he instituted the buddy system so that no one on his tribe, including himself, was ever alone with any of the Zapateras. He talked to the Zapateras (in fact, Steve said they liked Rob and wished they could have worked with him) as did the rest of Ometepe, but only if there were at least two Ometepe present. He figured that would discourage anyone on his tribe from plotting with the Zapateras because then they would be risking getting ratted out.

With Natalie the issue seemed to be that the last few days, she went off by herself and didn't talk to anyone, and she seemed to agree that was true when he asked her about it at FTC. If so, that's not a smart thing to do in a game that still relies heavily on social connections.

 

46 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Seeing this again just makes me even more astonished that Rob was able to play the game he did in RI. It just boggles the mind!

He's always been like that though... he seems to rely on his chahm to get people to do what he wants.  Even back when he was on the Amazing Race, he refused to eat all that meat, and somehow, he convinced others to take the penalty alongside with him.  I remember back then thinking that I couldn't believe people would listen to him and fall in line.

And we saw the same behaviour this season with the playpen and the bag emptying.  He always seems to rely to some extent on people believing in his legend and wanting to make him happy.  Especially coming off a season when he was literally idolized by many Survivor fans who repeatedly told him how great he is and how much they look up to him.  I'm sure it came as a particular shock to him when he was voted off.  I hope it was a wake up call to him that the magic has worn off.

Unfortunately, I am not convinced that Survivor is done with him, however.  His oldest daughter is 11 so I am fully convinced we will be seeing both of them on Survivor 60 in ten years in another Blood vs. Water season.

If Survivor really wants to bring back a past contestant for one of these veterans amongst newbies seasons so they can hand them the money... Cirie is most deserving.  I know Cirie has said she is done with Survivor forever, but I would love to see her win the money someday.  Especially the awful way in which she got non-voted off last time and the way she got screwed in Micronesia by one of the few two-person finals.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Unfortunately, I am not convinced that Survivor is done with him, however.  His oldest daughter is 11 so I am fully convinced we will be seeing both of them on Survivor 60 in ten years in another Blood vs. Water season.

Or, just five years since 16 year olds can now apply!

[Miss Scarlet]

I knew that a man was going to win before the season even starting airing when Probst declared it "the best season ever" and I knew before the finale aired that this meant it was going to be Tony (unless Rob made it from back EoE). 

[skybolt]

So Natalie is now regretting not going up against Tony in the fire making challenge, or having Michelle do it instead of Sarah. She's stating that she wanted to barf when Sarah was putting on an act to give Tony the victory after she lost. She also mentioned that Michelle was nervous so she didn't want her facing Tony, and that she would've run away with the votes if going up against Sarah and Michelle.

First of all I didn't see Michelle being nervous at all. She wanted to take on Tony and had a good chance at beating him in the fire making challenge (she was practicing for hours). Also, there's no way Natalie is running away with the votes if either Sarah or Michelle beat Tony at the fire making challenge. Listening to all the jury interviews at Ponderosa (prior to final tribal), a good number of them wouldn't have have voted for an EoE returnee, even if Natalie was the best there. They noted it was like playing 2 separate games. Even Parvati who voted for Natalie noted that she was really bad at the game the first 3 days (throwing everyone's name out), and that she was an easy vote out. Parvati also praised Tony's game. She was obviously swayed by Tyson.

Speaking of, Tyson was the only one who stated that he was voting for Natalie no matter what happens at tribal and it was solely based on her giving him the immunity idol. He was also going to try and rally the rest to vote for her. Apparently this is ok, but Rob asking what everyone is thinking makes him a jackass. This is basically what I hate about EoE. Since Natalie had a gazillion fire tokens she could basically bribe Tyson with an immunity idol without any repercussions. If you do something like that in the real game, you risk getting blindsided like Sandra.

As far as Natalie getting into a fight with Yul, I think Dani is making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm sure we'd all act irritable at times if we were starving for 30+ days. Actually Yul had great things to say about Natalie, so I doubt there was anything there. I think Natalie is a top notch player. I was thinking that if there was no EoE and she was voted out first, I could totally see her come back in a legends season (with a few other winners) and pull out what Tony did. His quick exit in Game Changers put a lesser target on his back.

[endure]

On 5/14/2020 at 9:20 AM, blackwing said:

Sarah didn't break up the alliance.  Natalie did.  First off, at final 6, Natalie offered that if anyone wanted to talk with her, she was listening.  Michelle was the only one who took her up on it.  Natalie approaches Michelle and wants to work with her.  Michelle won immunity.  Natalie played an idol that nobody knew about.  So she was guaranteed that they would lose one out of the 4.

Then, with five left, if Natalie hadn't said anything about Tony being well respected by the jury right when she returned, there is no seed of doubt in Sarah's mind.  Sarah doesn't cry about how "it's so unfair to be a woman, I'm playing just as well as Tony but I am perceived as a bitch while he is being lauded".  Sarah wouldn't have thought twice about going to the end with Ben and Tony because in her mind she truly thought she was playing the best game.  

I still don't fully understand why Ben would sacrifice himself at that point in time... at the very least, why not vote out Michelle and then when it is final 4, anything goes?  But while Sarah made the decision to vote out Ben, she never would have done so if it weren't for Natalie.

I do think that Natalie was fantastic in chipping away at that alliance... she got rid of Denise and then she engineered Ben's exit.  Then she made the remaining two make fire against each other.  Of the six remaining players, Tony's alliance constituted four.  For only one of them to make it to the final tribal is a testament to the way Natalie was able to work and chip away.

And screw Rob Mariano... so bitter.  Natalie answered as well as she could.  She made mistakes on the first two days and it resulted in her getting voted out.  But she didn't give up and she clawed her way back and managed to get to the end. 

Yes thank Natalie at least for coming back into the game when she did otherwise it would have been such a boring and predictable finale.  She made it a lot more interesting and fun. I would have been happy with her winning but I’m happier it was Tony and even happier it wasn’t Sarah! Does anyone know how much she did win, and did Michelle win any money for third place?

[BK1978]

On 5/15/2020 at 1:20 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

That could actually make it interesting just to see the flirting style of game play (like original season Parvati) come back into play. I just think of my own nerdy self back at 16. If someone who looked like Parv or Sophie (or let's face it just about anyone) was walking around in a bikini all day could probably get me to do just about anything by giving me a bit of attention. Hell the last season that Andrea was on she was so attractive that even on TV it was almost distracting. 

This times a thousand Kel.  Hell I am forty-one and I would still do just about anything for Andrea if she gave me a bit of attention.  Plus a whole list of other women who have been on the show.  Even Angelina Keeley, knowing that she's an asshole.  You can't help who you find attractive.

8 hours ago, blackwing said:

If Survivor really wants to bring back a past contestant for one of these veterans amongst newbies seasons so they can hand them the money... Cirie is most deserving.  I know Cirie has said she is done with Survivor forever, but I would love to see her win the money someday.  Especially the awful way in which she got non-voted off last time and the way she got screwed in Micronesia by one of the few two-person finals.

Hell if anyone wants to just hand the million to Cirie like they did to Rupert I would be perfectly fine with that.  That is one of the reasons why I do not like Parvati, was because I felt Cirie should have won that season.  I also did not like Parvati because I was a fan of Penner and she treated him like shit, and she always seemed to go out of her way to be cruel. 

As much as I hate to admit it, she did not really bother me much this season.  Though I always laugh when people hate Russell Hantz and love Parvati they are pretty much the same person in how they treat people.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, skybolt said:

First of all I didn't see Michelle being nervous at all. She wanted to take on Tony and had a good chance at beating him in the fire making challenge (she was practicing for hours).

I agree. Michele seemed cool and confident during that whole fire-practicing sequence.

But I can also believe that Natalie perceived it in the way that she's saying. There's obviously stuff we don't see, but also, everything is viewed through a person's own filter. We, sitting at home with no stake in it, see Michele just calmly starting fire after fire. Natalie, in the middle of the endgame and stewing over her decision, could see Michele practicing endlessly out of a lack of confidence. Who knows?

And that's the end of me defending Natalie XD

[skybolt]

1 hour ago, tracyscott76 said:

I agree. Michele seemed cool and confident during that whole fire-practicing sequence.

But I can also believe that Natalie perceived it in the way that she's saying. There's obviously stuff we don't see, but also, everything is viewed through a person's own filter. We, sitting at home with no stake in it, see Michele just calmly starting fire after fire. Natalie, in the middle of the endgame and stewing over her decision, could see Michele practicing endlessly out of a lack of confidence. Who knows?

And that's the end of me defending Natalie XD

My biggest issue with Natalie's take is that she could've beaten Sarah fairly easily if Sarah won the fire making challenge. Personally, I can't imagine a scenario where most of the new school players, who are still purists, and played more with Tony and Sarah in the game would vote for her. I actually believe her 4 votes were maximized whether she was facing Tony or Sarah. From the jury confessions, I think Rob, Amber, Wendell, Adam, Yul, Nick, Ben, Denise, Tony, Kim and Sophie all vote for Sarah. She may have gotten Dani's vote, but that's about it. Also, if she hadn't had a gazillion fire tokens to buy an immunity for Tyson, she may have only gotten Jeremy's vote, since I believe Tyson convinced Ethan and Parvati to vote for her.

This has nothing to with Natalie and everything to do with EoE. The same thing would've happened if Rob or Tony were in Nat's place.

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, skybolt said:

Speaking of, Tyson was the only one who stated that he was voting for Natalie no matter what happens at tribal and it was solely based on her giving him the immunity idol. 

I don't know why Tyson said that because he voted for Natalie simply because they're friends and he doesn't even really know Tony. I don't believe anyone would ever vote to give some stranger 2 mil over their friend. I mean, it's not like Rob would've voted for Tony if Amber had been in the F3!

As for Natalie, it seems clear she had an overinflated sense of her chance to win. Her only shot was probably with Ben and Michele.

[DEL901]

On 5/15/2020 at 12:44 PM, Fallacy said:

I don’t think Rob seemed bitter at all. He asked Natalie two questions that were essential in explaining why Natalie lost the game: 1) why didn’t she take out Tony and 2) why did she stop socializing with people out on the edge. Those are the exact two reasons why she lost.

He was giving her a chance to defend her choices in both cases. It’s not his fault that her answers didn’t satisfy the jury. Rob is a very smart guy, and he knew what the jury was thinking about Natalie, so he spoke up and asked the two basic questions that were on everyone’s mind. I also didn’t hear a note of mocking or unkindness when he asked. He just asked them, calmly and cleanly. As with all things Boston Rob, his haters will see one thing and his fans will see something else. 

I agree. And I’d go one step further.  I think he asked about what everyone was wondering about and gave her a chance to win them over with her reasoning but she squandered the opportunity.  

On 5/15/2020 at 6:34 PM, eelpout said:

my problem with Natalie is... "TWINNIE!!!" Will never get that annoying (TAR) yell out of my head. 😉

Speaking of which, caught that brief preview of Phil Keoghan hosting a different reality competition show ("Tough as Nails"). Is that allowed?!? 😀

 

I can admire her, but I am not sure anyone who lived through “Twinee” could ever really like her.  

[nutty1]

A few final thoughts....

If Natalie did beat Tony in making fire, I do not think she would have won. I think Sarah would have.

Even if Ben knew he couldn't win, the second or third place prize money is nothing to scoff at. I'd have stayed in for that.

Do you think Michele and Natalie were that surprised they didn't win?? I heard the F3 lineup with Tony winning spoiler for a month before the finale aired. It finished filming in June 2019. Surely everyone knew who voted for who by that point.

[skybolt]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't know why Tyson said that because he voted for Natalie simply because they're friends and he doesn't even really know Tony. I don't believe anyone would ever vote to give some stranger 2 mil over their friend. I mean, it's not like Rob would've voted for Tony if Amber had been in the F3!

As for Natalie, it seems clear she had an overinflated sense of her chance to win. Her only shot was probably with Ben and Michele.

Good point. I think Natalie needed to either beat Tony at the fire making challenge or blindside Sarah at final 5. The best jury move would've been to play her idol for Michelle and take out Sarah in one shot. Going after Ben twice made zero sense since he was likely the only person remaining who she would've beaten handily. Even Michelle would've given her a run for her money, since she didn't rub anyone the wrong way and lasted the whole game.

[skybolt]

50 minutes ago, nutty1 said:

A few final thoughts....

If Natalie did beat Tony in making fire, I do not think she would have won. I think Sarah would have.

Even if Ben knew he couldn't win, the second or third place prize money is nothing to scoff at. I'd have stayed in for that.

Do you think Michele and Natalie were that surprised they didn't win?? I heard the F3 lineup with Tony winning spoiler for a month before the finale aired. It finished filming in June 2019. Surely everyone knew who voted for who by that point.

Ben's decision actually made it harder for Sarah to make final 3. If he had stuck with the vote and eliminated Michelle, his best move would've been to eliminate Tony in the fire making challenge. Plus, them hugging as soon as the votes were read made Sarah's blindside of Ben look flat. The jury likely knew that Ben sacrificed himself than Sarah pulling a true blindside.

[TVbitch]

How was Edge of Extinction even fair as far as getting back in the game? Natalie had been there since day 3 collecting a massive store of fire tokens. She basically bought her way back into the game. She obviously would not have won the challenge without her 3 advantages. Other players who had not been there as long did not have equal opportunity to bank fire tokens and buy advantages. 

In conclusion, fire tokens suck even more than Edge of Extinction. 

[skybolt]

4 hours ago, TVbitch said:

How was Edge of Extinction even fair as far as getting back in the game? Natalie had been there since day 3 collecting a massive store of fire tokens. She basically bought her way back into the game. She obviously would not have won the challenge without her 3 advantages. Other players who had not been there as long did not have equal opportunity to bank fire tokens and buy advantages. 

In conclusion, fire tokens suck even more than Edge of Extinction. 

This 100%. I just feel like the returning EoE player is playing with a handicap. They can build all these relationships on EoE without worrying about getting voted out, they can find out exactly what's happening in the real game from the recent vote outs, they can send disadvantages and advantages to people still in the game to help or hurt someone's game, etc. It reminds me of when my older brothers used to teach me chess when I was 6. I'd feel so happy beating them, even tough they were playing without a queen and two rooks.

[Nashville]

On 5/16/2020 at 10:21 AM, fishcakes said:

I'm watching them right now and just got to that part.

Ethan: Someday I hope I can look obese like you.
Rob: Follow my lead. Follow my lead, skinny boy.

🤣

IIRC since his initial Survivor outing, BRob has stated several times he makes it a point to tack on some extra poundage before hitting the beach each season.

 

9 hours ago, TVbitch said:

How was Edge of Extinction even fair as far as getting back in the game? 

It isn’t.  Next question, please. 😉 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 5/15/2020 at 2:12 PM, skybolt said:

It's interesting that both Sarah and Tony have played 3 times each. All 3 times have been on the same seasons, and one of them has won each of these seasons. Forget about Rob and Amber, people should've been worried about these 2 first and foremost.

That's a pretty good average for Sarah. Also a good time to point out that Rob's average is now one win out of 5 times playing. 

On 5/17/2020 at 3:23 AM, BK1978 said:

This times a thousand Kel.  Hell I am forty-one and I would still do just about anything for Andrea if she gave me a bit of attention.  Plus a whole list of other women who have been on the show.  Even Angelina Keeley, knowing that she's an asshole.  You can't help who you find attractive.

I just think back to the first fans vs favourites season and that poor dumbass who got talked into giving away his immunity necklace by Amanda, Parv and their alliance. And that guy was in his 20's. Imagine a 16 year old dumbass like that and how much easy they could talked into doing anything by someone pretty. 

[watchingtvaddict]

22 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I agree. And I’d go one step further.  I think he asked about what everyone was wondering about and gave her a chance to win them over with her reasoning but she squandered the opportunity.  

I can admire her, but I am not sure anyone who lived through “Twinee” could ever really like her.  

I watched that season of Amazing Race and I can’t believe I actually like twinee... I think I really like the juxtaposition of one twin being voted out first while the other twin won.