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ElectricBoogaloo

S01.E07: Picture Perfect

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The courtroom scenes were so over the top melodramatic, especially Mia's monologues in response to straight-forward questions. KW's mouth-acting didn't help either.

Elena's behavior throughout the episode was cringeworthy, even when congratulating Lexie on getting into Yale she managed to slip in a microagression. And she crossed the line into irredeemable territory telling Pearl about the Ryans. If this show is trying to portray Elena and Mia in a way that explores their flaws but also makes us feel for them, it's failing miserably.

Izzy really isn't any better than Lexie, thinking only about the statement she wanted to make with the Cabbage Patch dolls and not how offensive it was to the POC students at her school. Her conversation with Mia afterwards was the only time I liked Mia; she said what needed to be said, but in a compassionate way.

Edited by chocolatine
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Sadly, I was not at all surprised to find out that Izzy and her BFF were hooking up but that her BFF didn't want anyone to know.

I was glad that Bill told Elena how much she potentially fucked his case when she told Mia she knew all about Pearl and the Ryans.

I rolled my eyes when Elena was going on and on about how people kept blaming HER only because they didn't know the truth about Mia. The self righteous indignation is not a good look, Elena. I had a similar reaction when Elena was praising Lexie and by extension patting herself on the back for getting into Yale "on her own."

Lexie really showed how much she is her mother's daughter and Brian called her on it - everything is always about her.

I was surprised that Izzy put on her tartan Keds and smiled for the Christmas pictures but it all made sense when we got to see what she had actually done.

It was interesting to see all four of the kids sitting on the sofa together again. How long before Moody explodes with the knowledge of Trip and Pearl seeing each other behind his back?

I don't think Pearl owes it to Moody to date him just because he likes her, but it was shitty that she's been lying to him for a MONTH straight so that she can sneak off with Trip. I had a similar experience in high school. I introduced two of my friends (who went to different schools so they never would have met otherwise). The three of us would hang out after school and on the weekends. I later found out that they had been sneaking around and seeing each other and lying to me for about two months. I was not interested in dating either of them so I wasn't jealous (as Moody clearly is). I was just mad that they lied to me for so long and snuck around behind my back. I didn't care that they were seeing each other. I was just hurt that they had lied to my face on a daily basis instead of telling me.

Elena was just being spiteful and meddling when she told Pearl about the Ryans. She didn't do it because she genuinely felt that Pearl should know the truth. She did it because she wanted her pound of flesh and she was mad that Bill didn't expose Mia's past in court.

I liked that the prop people made sure to include charges for Magnolia Bakery and Henri Bendel from Elena's trip to New York on the credit card bill. Bonus: we also learned that Elena is a shitty tipper (she tipped $31 on a $171 meal, which is 18%).

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And it turns out that George is a shitty photographer because he managed to cut the top of Bill's head off in the Christmas pictures.

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To me this episode wasn’t that great.  It was just ok.  Izzie  and her cabbage patch dolls...These people didn’t buy a baby they adopted a baby that was abandoned. Also it was extremely racist to the people of color at the school.  Lexie is a jerk but it annoys me when you clarify a statement to someone and people can asking you to reclarify it.  It’s completely possible she meant people who work at fast food restaurants which also makes her a jerk.  


I hate Mia and Elena equally.  

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1 hour ago, dmc said:

I hate Mia and Elena equally.  

I reread my Goodreads review of the book and I basically said this, and commented on how selfish everybody is. Holds true for the show. Just a boatload of selfish-ass people.

Mia depriving Pearl of the opportunity to know her father and that side of her family is awful. Mia dragging Pearl from town to town with little physical or financial stability is awful. Elena is just generally awful. Lexie really is her mother’s daughter, so: awful.

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't think Pearl owes it to Moody to date him just because he likes her, but it was shitty that she's been lying to him for a MONTH straight so that she can sneak off with Trip. I had a similar experience in high school. I introduced two of my friends (who went to different schools so they never would have met otherwise). The three of us would hang out after school and on the weekends. I later found out that they had been sneaking around and seeing each other and lying to me for about two months. I was not interested in dating either of them so I wasn't jealous (as Moody clearly is). I was just mad that they lied to me for so long and snuck around behind my back. I didn't care that they were seeing each other. I was just hurt that they had lied to my face on a daily basis instead of telling me.

In high school my “friend” (she was a shitty friend; we stopped being friends when I went to college and it was nothing but a relief) wanted to set me up with a boy she knew from a different school but ended up hooking up with him instead. I wasn’t that mad about the hookup (I hadn’t even met the boy) but I was mad that I had to hear about it from someone else later.

Moody probably feels like he loses to Trip a lot, so this is just one more thing.

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1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

I reread my Goodreads review of the book and I basically said this, and commented on how selfish everybody is. Holds true for the show. Just a boatload of selfish-ass people.

Mia depriving Pearl of the opportunity to know her father and that side of her family is awful. Mia dragging Pearl from town to town with little physical or financial stability is awful. Elena is just generally awful. Lexie really is her mother’s daughter, so: awful.

In high school my “friend” (she was a shitty friend; we stopped being friends when I went to college and it was nothing but a relief) wanted to set me up with a boy she knew from a different school but ended up hooking up with him instead. I wasn’t that mad about the hookup (I hadn’t even met the boy) but I was mad that I had to hear about it from someone else later.

Moody probably feels like he loses to Trip a lot, so this is just one more thing.

It's weird they are keeping it a secret.  I initially thought it was because of their mothers but Mia knows.  Agreed, Pearl doesn't need to like to Moody nor does she need to relay any of her personal life to him but she doesn't need to lie either

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3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I reread my Goodreads review of the book and I basically said this, and commented on how selfish everybody is. Holds true for the show. Just a boatload of selfish-ass people.

I feel like the first couple episodes were about people that weren't perfect but flawed and we would see some insight into what made them flawed.  Now I feel like I don't care why they are the way they are. I don't know if there is any character I'm supposed to be rooting for. Maybe Linda and her husband but I'm sure there are people rooting for Bebe.

I understand wanting to show all sides to a situation but with this show I honestly don't like any side.

Edited by blondiec0332
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14 minutes ago, TheOtherOne said:

18% was hardly a "shitty" tip in 1997, when 15% likely would have been considered the norm. (Heck, an episode of Friends that year had Monica using the old "double the tax" method of tip calculating, which usually worked out to far less than 20.)

Its not shitty but not great

20% is what people should be tipping even in 1997

15%  is you have to leave something

18% is just mediocre but in a restaurant like that you would expect more

 

 

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Mia throws a lot of stones to live in glass car. I don't understand her saying you can't challenge someone and not expect to be challenged back. That's literally all she does is scowl, pick at people and dare someone to call her out. But nothing in this life will ever make me feel better about my resting bitch face than K.W. grimace. I was very happy to see her not look smug for almost the entire episode. She is also one of the biggest hypocrites around to be filled with such righteous indignation. The baby has only one mother but you sure don't give the same credence to your baby daddy, do ya? 

Lexi is disgusting. She has been very jealous of Pearl apparently to keep trying to feed off her the way she has because it's not even necessary. Then in a heartbeat here comes the tears and I'm a victim mentality spilling out. The only reason she didn't tell whatever her boyfriend's name is about the abortion is because she knew that she screwed Pearl over again behind that. 

Elena is still running around like she is not aware actions have consequences. She had no business telling Pearl about her family situation. At first she seemed to think that maybe she thought Mia finally told Pearl, but when she saw she hadn't, she should have shut up. I get hating Mia but you don't break a child down to get back at someone else. I also never understood why the girl couldn't be called Izzy when everyone else had a nickname. I was glad she said it out loud because when the other episode said that Moody wasn't his real name I was like well then why can't she have her nickname. It's not like it was crass. Izzy is very ridiculous and over the top but she isn't wrong about the name situation. 

I hate a liar. Most of these people  seem to just lie, steal and scheme about so many unnecessary things. Just tell people how you really feel and stop with the passive aggression! Running around stealing just to be stealing. Then when someone actually adopts a child,  you claim it was stolen. STFU. I don't really care for anyone on this show. And I'd be perfectly fine with all of their houses getting burned down. 

What was the final situation with the pictures? I didn't understand what they tried to show about the pics being all cut up. I was watching on my phone and couldn't really make it out. 

Edited by andreamf15
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16 minutes ago, andreamf15 said:

 

I hate a liar. Most of these people  seem to just lie, steal and scheme about so many unnecessary things. 

What was the final situation with the pictures? I didn't understand what they tried to show about the pics being all cut up. I was watching on my phone and couldn't really make it out. 

I hate lying too. I don't understand the complacency over lying.

I didn't catch what was in the picture that made Elena mad either. And I was watching it on a regular TV. I was hoping someone here would tell me. 

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11 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

I didn't catch what was in the picture that made Elena mad either. And I was watching it on a regular TV. I was hoping someone here would tell me. 

Elena was cutting Izzy out of the family Christmas photo because Izzy covertly gave the middle finger. 

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17 minutes ago, sadie said:

And it might be unpopular but I thought Bill did a great job showing why Bebe should stay with the adoptive parents. The Asian mom (sorry I’m blanking on her name) was in the exact same life position she was when she left her baby out in the cold getting frostbite and couldn’t feed her. What was so different now she could provide for her?

Right? That’s like something I’ve thought before; what happens if Bebe gets the baby back, and hits another rough time? Will she just abandon the kid again? I’m sure being a parent is tough but you can’t just give away a kid when in a crisis and expect to get them back. That’s just not fair to the kid or anyone who is taking care of the kid during that time.

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I am so glad I stuck with this show. I considered bailing after about episode 3, not wanting to watch a bunch of oblivious white rich people continue to take brutal advantage of the new black family, but it really has found interesting ways to explore the race/class/sexual orientation issues it has raised.

I do take issue with the comparisons between Mia and Elena, though. I don't think they are equal assholes. Mia is abrupt and off-putting, but that's not a character flaw, it's just her. Same with her advice that you can't challenge someone without expecting to be challenged back. That IS good advice, and something Izzy needed to hear, and I don't think it's particularly hypocritical of Mia to say it.  She stands up to being challenged very well. She may not have made the best choices, but she stands behind them. She wouldn't be intimidated off the witness stand, even though she knew her own past was about to be detonated in her face. She was ready to meet that challenge and face the consequences. She doesn't like to talk about difficult things (who does?) but she is prepared to defend herself. She is selfish, sure, and it was wrong of her to take Pearl away and not let her have a relationship with her biological father. But even though she makes mistakes, and does things for selfish reasons, there really is an undercurrent of reasonable goodness in the things she has done. She sold that photograph in order to give Bebe a fighting chance in court. She could have spent that money on her own child, but she spent it on someone who was in greater need. Pearl has a right to be upset, but that's not a morally unjustifiable action. She takes in Elena's kids when they come to her, because she can see that they need something they're not getting at home, and even then she doesn't nurture them, she just gives them hard advice that they need to hear. She acts out of selfish fear, but it's a fear that stems from the possibility of losing Pearl if the truth about her parentage came out. It may not be morally right, but it is emotionally understandable. At the very least, Mia demonstrates the courage it takes to stand behind her convictions.

Elena, on the other hand, seems to act predominantly vindictively. Her actions stem not from a fear of LOSING her children, but of having to accept them as they are, not what she wants them to be. She resents the way her life turned out, due to the way her parents' expectations shaped her decisions, but then she heaps those same expectations on her own children. When she involves herself in the court case, it's not actually to help the adoptive parents: She threatens Mia, uses underhanded tactics, and risks exposing her husband to charges of witness tampering so that, in her own words, SHE wouldn't be responsible for her friends losing their child. She investigates Mia, tells Pearl her mother's secrets, and involves herself way too much in Mia's business in order to PUNISH Mia for... what? Helping a mother go to court to fight for her child? Even when she acts motherly towards Pearl, it seems to stem not from a genuine care for Pearl's interests, but an ingrained belief that Mia is not a good mother, and looking after Pearl makes her feel superior. It's like she has to justify her own ingrained racism by proving that the People of Color in her life really ARE bad by some standard or other. Elena makes the easy choices, the ones that DON'T take courage, and I respect her less and less with each passing episode. And thinking of....

4 hours ago, andreamf15 said:

Lexi is disgusting. She has been very jealous of Pearl apparently to keep trying to feed off her the way she has because it's not even necessary. Then in a heartbeat here comes the tears and I'm a victim mentality spilling out. The only reason she didn't tell whatever her boyfriend's name is about the abortion is because she knew that she screwed Pearl over again behind that. 

Lexi is so much like her mother. I actually think, rather than because she knew she had screwed Pearl over, she didn't tell Brian about the abortion because while she was about to try to justify her "I'm a victim" mindset with her abortion story, some little part of her realized that if she told Brian the truth, she WOULD actually experience some real suffering (though still not as much as an actual victim). She would be opening herself up to being called on her actions, and if he was upset with her for lying to him or not telling him, she might have to confront the idea that she had done the wrong thing by keeping him in the dark (and I'm not saying she had any obligation to consult him, I'm only reflecting on the guilt she might feel for terminating the pregnancy behind his back), and so, just like her mother, she did the cowardly thing and protected herself.

I love how complicated the situation is between Mia and Elena, and how it really does put some meat on the bones of the question "what makes a good mother?" Certainly, Elena and Mia are both good and bad in different ways. Focusing on the way the OTHER is a bad parent, rather than on the way THEY are bad parents, is hypocritical, but still not equally so. Mia is afraid to tell Pearl the truth and knows it's wrong to lie to her, but continues to do so out of fear. Elena seems absolutely blind to her own faults, and lashes out against others to avoid facing them. They are both motivated by selfishness, but not to the same outcomes. I can't tell if the show KNOWS there's an imbalance in the way their selfishness manifests, or if it really thinks it's putting them on equal footing, but I'll definitely be interested to see how it ends.

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54 minutes ago, Slovenly Muse said:

She sold that photograph in order to give Bebe a fighting chance in court. She could have spent that money on her own child, but she spent it on someone who was in greater need

I'm sorry but it looks like to me more like Mia saw a way to hurt some rich white people,  Elena in particular.  She manipulated her way into the birthday party, snuck around their house to get to the baby.  Neither she nor Bebe have given any thought to what's best for the little girl, they only hear their own "mothers first" mantra.  And what about the effect of being taken from the only home she has known would have on that little girl? It's cruel.

Elena is mostly pissed at Mia for not being appropriately grateful to her for her 'generosity' in renting her the house and giving her a job in her home.  She didn't expect Mia to have a spine.

Lexi reminds me of Clair in Breakfast Club.  "You don't understand the pressure!"  To be perfect, which yes, I can see from Elena.  Izzy pulled her Cabbage Patch stunt more for shock value than any real statement.  She wanted Mia to be proud of her, she just doesn't know how to make that happen.  

What I hope for most is that her friends keep the baby and Bill lets Elena have it big time over her stay in New York.  He's not stupid, he knows about Jamie.

Edited to add:  Why is Mia still living in Elena's rent house?? Why hasn't she moved out or why hasn't Elena kicked her out?  

Edited by trudysmom
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24 minutes ago, trudysmom said:

I'm sorry but it looks like to me more like Mia saw a way to hurt some rich white people,  Elena in particular.  She manipulated her way into the birthday party, snuck around their house to get to the baby.  Neither she nor Bebe have given any thought to what's best for the little girl, they only hear their own "mothers first" mantra.  And what about the effect of being taken from the only home she has known would have on that little girl? It's cruel.

I don't agree. Mia wanted to help Bebe because Bebe reminded her of her own situation (the child she birthed being truly "hers" even though others might not see it that way). Hurting the adoptive parents wasn't the GOAL, it was just the consequence. And Mia has not taken May Ling/Mirabelle out of her home. She has given Bebe the chance to argue her fitness in court, which she has every right to do. Ultimately, it's the court's decision where the baby goes.

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It looked to me for a minute in the courtroom like Elena understood Bebe’s feelings when she left her child at the fire station. After all, we just saw in last week’s episode that there was an incident where Elena dumped her 4 babies off on her husband and disappeared for the night. What would she have done if she didn’t have that husband to leave the kids with or the money for caretaking help? There hasn’t been much overt acknowledgement of postpartum depression on this show— I can’t remember if it was understood that well in the mid-90s— but clearly both Elena and Bebe have suffered from it. It’s just Elena had a support system. 
 

Also, now that Elena has told Pearl about the circumstances of her birth for no reason other than spite, I’m totally fine with someone burning her house down. She’s always claiming she’s “just trying to help” and doesn’t get that no one is actually asking for her help. She’s just an angry, selfish woman who’s only concern is what other people think of her and will hurt anyone who disrupts her perfect image. She’s not upset because Linda might lose her child, she’s upset because Linda might blame her for bringing Mia into their lives and that could hurt her social status. 

Edited by marny
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I do give Bill some credit for not bringing up Pearl in court to Mia. Although it probably wasn't him being altruistic, more likely either that Elena had already spoiled it by telling Mia in the bathroom or it was just to spite Elena for her episode in New York.

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Mia and Elena really are two sides of the same coin, basically dragging all of these people into their own personal pissing match. As much as they dress things up as "everything I do is for my children!" or "I have to help my friend get her baby" this is all about them and their stuff and wanting to get one over on that person who represents everything that they hate. Mia isn't paying for Bebes legal fees out of the goodness of her heart anymore than Elena told Pearl the truth because she had the right to know, it was because the two of them have a massive hate on for each other and want to screw with each other. Sure its also likely that Mia is also projecting based on her own issues with motherhood, but this clearly isn't all about Bebe and the baby. If it wasn't for the two of them escalating the situation constantly, maybe this whole situation wouldn't have gone down like this. 

Mia is still lying, even when she acts like she is telling Bebe the truth! It wasn't just that she got pregnant and dumped the guy and ran with their baby, she was a surrogate! Thats a totally different situation and she knows it. Even then, the story she told makes her seem like a shitty person, like this hypothetical father should never have the opportunity to know his daughter, even if Pearl is 50% his, because Pearl is HEERRRRRSSSSSS. God, what is Mia going to do when Pearl grows up? Wants to get married? Is she gonna lock her up on a storage locker because she wants Pearl to only have her? Yeah, I hate when Mia says how Peal is "hers" like that, its like her idea of motherhood is so possessive and selfish, like you can only love your child if they have some of your DNA, and are just an extension of you and a possession. 

Izzys baby sale was so cringy, even the other teens were calling out how problematic it was. Oh Izzy. The story with her friend is pretty much what I imagined it was, but that was still quite sad to witness. Izzys scene with Mia was actually one of Mias better scenes, she was gentle but honest about why Izzys baby protest was pretty messed up. I also dont really get this whole "buying the baby and that shows how evil the adopted family is" thing anyway. It was a completely good faith adoption from them, they seem to very much love the baby, and while giving her the check (which was Elena's idea) was rather tacky, they did also say that they would allow Bebe to still have a relationship with her bio daughter. They keep acting like they punched Bebe in the face and ran off with the baby cackling eviliy, not that they adopted her through legit channels. But adoption is bad now I guess? 

Bill finally gets some stuff to do, and I think he actually made a decent case for why May Ling should stay with her adopted family. Bebe having to leave her daughter was tragic, but she did also still leave her baby out in the cold, to the point where she had frostbite, and circumstances really haven't changed for her. Not that kids from poor families should be taken from their parents, but if she was that desperate that she was leave her daughter at a fire station alone in the snow, whats to say that wont happen again, as nothing has really changed?  Why is any of this fair to the adopted parents? I also loved Bill calling Elena out on possibly messing his case up, and it certainly is interesting that he didn't use the info that Elena gave him. 

Poor Pearl. Mom was sitting on a small goldmine while she was dumpster diving for mattresses and training bras and she only used the money for a stranger who she is projecting her own stuff on. That being said, its really crappy that she and Trip are sneaking around and hiding it from Moody. She is certainly not obliged to date him as she doesn't like him like that, but it sucks that they wont just tell him, and now he feels ditched by his friend. She even took him to Moody's secret spot! 

Elena yelling at Izzy during the picture was so uncomfortable, even the photographer looked like he wanted to make a break for it! You have to wonder if some of Lexis fear of disappointing her mom and not being perfect is that she sees how Elena treats very imperfect Izzie and is afraid to get the same treatment. The crack about how Lexi got into Yale without having to be a "quota" was just so....ugh shut up Elena.

Edited by tennisgurl
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I disagree that Mia paid for Bebe’s lawyers to spite Elena. She’s doing it because she’s projecting her own insecurity about the righteousness of her decision to take Pearl away from a wealthy couple onto Bebe’s situation.  Even if Elena hadn’t been Mia’s conduit to locating Mai Lin, I don’t think Mia’s actions would be different as far as helping Bebe. Elena being a part of the conflict is just icing on the cake. 

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15 hours ago, trudysmom said:

Lexi reminds me of Clair in Breakfast Club.  "You don't understand the pressure!"  To be perfect, which yes, I can see from Elena.

That speech was so stupid and ignorant.  Does she think only she is under that pressure?  Or white girls?  Or pretty white girls that look like her?  Many kids her exact own age are under that pressure, white or not, Pearl included.  Her facing pressure is not a good excuse to take advantage of Pearl.

3 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I'm afraid the show is positioning the custody battle as between rich white people and a poor Chinese woman.   For me the issue is Bebe regardless of her race was unable to care for child. Yes she left the child someone place she could get help but couldn't she have walked into that fire station asking for help?  People have their children removed from their care for less than what Bebe did. And her circumstances are't a lot better now. Who is going to watch the baby when she works?

But it is.  You can try and picture the show if it was a poor white woman losing her biological and white baby to a rich Chinese couple.  And then the audience can wonder if they would feel the same way.  I think everyone relates to certain fictional characters based on their own backgrounds and biases.  Just like how Mia relates to Bebe over that white mother I have no idea what her name is.

Nobody seems to question whether the white woman is a good mother to Mai Ling.  What if she's abusive?  What if she's racist?  (Bill and Elena have already expressed racist sentiments, so it seems very common among this group.). Nobody knows.  Nobody knows how Bebe would be today and nobody knows how the white mother is either.  It's not really the issue, "how good at parenting they would be".   That's all speculation based on biases.

Mia hiding money from Pearl is kind of realistic.  I know of experiences with this.  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Mia hiding money from Pearl is kind of realistic.

Realistic or not it is still a shitty thing to do. Mia has deprived her daughter of having a father in her life.  I don't think the show has explained why Mia lied to the Ryans. Did she find out something about them that made her think they are unfit? Or did she just decide she wanted the baby and to the hell with the father?

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3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Many kids her exact own age are under that pressure, white or not, Pearl included.  Her facing pressure is not a good excuse to take advantage of Pearl.

All too true. However, people, especially teens faced with pressure for the first time in their lives, tend to think it's only happening to them.  They can't see outside themselves. I don't say this to absolve Lexi of all the crap she's pulled AT ALL.  

 All the kids are keeping secrets from parents, friends, each other because they can't see anyone else's side.  That's a failing on the parent's part.  Elena prides herself on being progressive, "my daughter has a black boyfriend", but it's for show.  But has she or Bill taught the kids anything about empathy?  I mean Izzy seems to try, but it only adds to her role as family outcast.

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

What if she's racist?  (Bill and Elena have already expressed racist sentiments, so it seems very common among this group.). Nobody knows. 

Good point.  I think Elena and her friends like to think they aren't racist, again, Lexi's boyfriend, but it's a facade. Part of what frightens Elena is facing her own biases, which she denies even to herself.  But I think, I want to believe, that Linda is a good mother to  Maybelle/MayLing.  After having to go through labor for a stillborn baby, I can only hope she would be a super helicopter over protective mom.

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On 4/15/2020 at 2:11 AM, chocolatine said:

Izzy really isn't any better than Lexie, thinking only about the statement she wanted to make with the Cabbage Patch dolls and not how offensive it was to the POC students at her school. Her conversation with Mia afterwards was the only time I liked Mia; she said what needed to be said, but in a compassionate way.

I disagree. While this is true, the show is in the 90's and I don't remember "wokeness" being something a teenager - she is 14 after all -  would be aware of. And I thought the dialogue was written from a perspective of the current time and events. Izzy was trying to do something, to express her disgust with the system probably because she seems to admire Mia so much. It was awkward, it was a mistake but the reaction of the students and Mia's were disproportional considering the decade the story happens. And I don't think the students would be so vocal about the obviously racism. Again, they were talking as students know how to argue against racism today. Back in the 90's I believe it would be more likely they would see the absurdity but not act on it. 

I cannot stand KW and Mia is awful. I don't like Elena either but I can watch her because RW plays the bitchy rich white woman really well.

 

 

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Mia calling Izzy's doll display "problematic" feels like such a current word.  Did people ever use the word "problematic" the way we do now, back in the 90s?  Because I don't even remember it being used that way in the 2000s.

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3 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I don't think the show has explained why Mia lied to the Ryans. Did she find out something about them that made her think they are unfit? Or did she just decide she wanted the baby and to the hell with the father?

Mia decided to keep Pearl after her brother died and she went home for his funeral. When her mother saw that she was pregnant and found out that Mia was a surrogate she told her how disgusted she was by that and forbade Mia to attend the funeral. I think Mia saw her brother as her only "real" family, the only person who understood her, so with him gone she decided that her baby would be her family.

3 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I disagree. While this is true, the show is in the 90's and I don't remember "wokeness" being something a teenager - she is 14 after all -  would be aware of. And I thought the dialogue was written from a perspective of the current time and events. Izzy was trying to do something, to express her disgust with the system probably because she seems to admire Mia so much. It was awkward, it was a mistake but the reaction of the students and Mia's were disproportional considering the decade the story happens. And I don't think the students would be so vocal about the obviously racism. Again, they were talking as students know how to argue against racism today. Back in the 90's I believe it would be more likely they would see the absurdity but not act on it. 

I was an exchange student at a US high school in an affluent NYC suburb a year before the events of the show take place. While "woke" wasn't a thing then, blackface was definitely a no-go, and if POC students perceived white students' behavior as racist, they absolutely spoke up about it.

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I actually yelled “no don’t!” when Elena told Pearl there was something she wanted to tell her something, like I was watching a horror movie. I think that Mia was wrong to lie to Pearl about...everything, but Elena telling her like that was just so unbelievably awful. 

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On 4/15/2020 at 6:07 PM, trudysmom said:

Neither she nor Bebe have given any thought to what's best for the little girl

Linda seems completely unstable so I wonder if she'd actually make a better mother than Bebe would be.

 

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I’m at the point where I don’t care who burned the Richardson’s house down as long as it burned down, preferably with Elena in it. Save Pacey and the kids. Elena is a rotten, putrid, narcissistic racist so there’s nothing else to say about her. 

Mia, while I don’t think she goes out of her way to hurt people, has a very warped sense of helping those she cares about. Her believing that her art would sustain her and she could live on very little as a transient deprived Pearl of so much. She doesn’t understand that it wasn’t about the money, but it was about being able to provide Pearl with stability. She has been way too selfish for too long to understand that.

Good on Brian for letting Lexie go. High school romance aside, he wanted to stick it out with her but he couldn’t get past her gross sense of entitlement to move on. Unlike Pearl, he didn’t have rose-colored glasses when it came to the Richardsons.

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12 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Mia decided to keep Pearl after her brother died and she went home for his funeral. When her mother saw that she was pregnant and found out that Mia was a surrogate she told her how disgusted she was by that and forbade Mia to attend the funeral. I think Mia saw her brother as her only "real" family, the only person who understood her, so with him gone she decided that her baby would be her family.

Yes I know that but the show could have done a better job of showing us Mia's motivation for doing that. As it is Mia just looks like a selfish person who has little regard for anyone else's feelings.

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10 hours ago, Sharper2002 said:

I’m at the point where I don’t care who burned the Richardson’s house down as long as it burned down, preferably with Elena in it. Save Pacey and the kids.

I have a personal fondness for when celebs are referred to by the most known/adored role that they played 😁

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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1 hour ago, blondiec0332 said:

Yes I know that but the show could have done a better job of showing us Mia's motivation for doing that. As it is Mia just looks like a selfish person who has little regard for anyone else's feelings.

I think the show perfectly showed us Mia's motivation as it was exactly what was posted above AND Mia IS a selfish person who has little regard for anyone else's feelings.  

I find both Elena and Mia such horrible, awful people that I don't even think I want to watch this show anymore.  I feel so much for Pearl.  She, along with Moody, seem to be the only true "innocents" in this entire show.  

I was glad to finally have a scene where Joshua Jackson was able to have more than a sentence or two.  I loved when he told Elena to SIT DOWN.  That's his job.  She'd already royally messed it up.  She needs to learn when to just shut up.

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I'm seeing a lot of Elena is so racist. The Richardson's are so racist. But so is Mia. Mia is incredibly racist toward basically any white person that seems to cross her path. And I'm not saying the Richardson's aren't racist as well. I'm just saying so is Mia. White people aren't the only people who can be racist. The only people in this story who seem to not be racist is Pearl, Moody, and Bebe. Maybe Izzy (I'm not sure about her because everything about her is so irritating to me, that it is hard for me to really get to know her character). Everyone else has some sort of racist feelings even if they don't outright say it or try to cover it up. 

While I'm on this, Brian was basically just as shitty to Lexie as she has been. Brian obviously has been upset with Lexie about stealing Pearl's story (rightfully so), but then he still has sex with her. That was beyond fucked. I know they are horny teenagers, but he knew he was having issues with her behavior and was borderline on if he wanted to be with her and he still slept with her. He should have broken up with her long before this episode because he clearly has been having issues with her and her family for quite some time. Lexie has done a lot of messed up things and I'm not excusing any of her terrible behavior, I'm just saying Brian has played a part as well.

I know courts tend to like to put kids with their biological parents, but I just don't see how Bebe has any right to her baby after leaving her in the cold all alone an entire year ago. I feel for Bebe. I really do. It was a terrible circumstance. And the US laws on immigration and being able to become a citizen are extremely unfair even to this day and need major reform, but she still left her baby. If Bebe had been white, I don't think there would be much debate on who should get the kid. It would clearly be the adoptive parents. And that's how it should be here. I know Bebe's situation was different due to immigration issues, but she still left her baby and she isn't making any more money now than she was when she left May Ling and I feel like Bill made a good case showing that.

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5 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I think the show perfectly showed us Mia's motivation as it was exactly what was posted above AND Mia IS a selfish person who has little regard for anyone else's feelings.  

I agree - that episode with the young Mia and young Elena did a great job of showing us how these two people ended up where they are. Consider that the last time Mia saw her brother alive that he was giving her a bit of a hard time about giving up the baby. His death threw her into a tailspin and subsequently, she decided she had to keep Pearl - maybe as a way of keeping her brother??? I think if her brother hadn't died, Mia would have continued with her plan.

I felt that Izzy's art project was from the right place, but clumsily done. She has mature thoughts and feelings, and is certainly a lot more progressive than her peers in her time and place, but she's still only 14, so I give her a bit of a pass. Yeah, it was cringe-worthy, but she's still of an age when it's normal to think this is an awesome idea! and run headfirst into a brick wall with that awesome idea. Hell, I know plenty of adults who aren't real good at critical thinking and doing some basic if/then analysis, so I can see how she went off the rails. Compared to her sister, Izzy is far more mature when it comes to empathy and trying to do the right thing.

By the end of the episode, we were slack-jawed at Elena's behavior throughout the episde - I went from being meh on her to actively hating her more than anyone else on the show. Obviously, telling Pearl about her origins was mean, vindictive and purely self-serving, but at least she's not Pearl's actual mother. The thing that really got me was how loathsome Elena was to her own child. First of all, the whole fight over the keds was ridiculous and it was telling that Elena would not tolerate the smallest bit of individuality from Izzy. But that bitch actively cut her child out of the photographs and was actually going to mail the family Christmas card with one member literally sliced out of it! What kind of message does that send to the eliminated child, the rest of the family, and everyone who receives it? She may love her child, but she clearly does not like her.

I was wondering in the court room scene what difference it would even make that Mia has her own history with Pearl. I understand that she's a character witness, but I don't know how taking Pearl is really all that relevant to the proceedings (in fact, I don't even know how great a character witness Mia would be anyway because really, what does she know about Bebe other than what she sees at work? Who cares what Mia, or any other character witness, thinks about birth mothers and parental rights?). I just don't see where a character witness is very helpful in this particular case - if I were hearing that case, I'd want to hear from social workers, etc - how stable is Bebe now, what are her child care plans?, what is her plan to provide for May Ling, etc.

 

 

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A number of posts here have been removed for stepping over the civility line.  Racism is a difficult subject and plays a large part in this show.  While discussion of racisim in terms of the show is fine, please do so in a civil manner.  Also, if the bulk of your post is about racism in general and not about the show, it does not belong in this thread.

Thank you,

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On 4/15/2020 at 6:29 PM, peachmangosteen said:

Pearl is just like her mother honestly. It is such a dick move for her to be fucking around with Tripp while lying to Moody. Fucking hell, she's even taking Tripp to Moody's special place, which is like a whole other level of asshole!

OMG this part bothered me so much! The two of them lying to Moody is bad enough, but to use his special place to do it is pretty cruel.

On 4/16/2020 at 11:47 AM, tennisgurl said:

Mia is still lying, even when she acts like she is telling Bebe the truth! It wasn't just that she got pregnant and dumped the guy and ran with their baby, she was a surrogate! Thats a totally different situation and she knows it. 

That's a good point. She can't even be honest with Bebe when she's giving her reason for not taking the stand.

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23 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I find both Elena and Mia such horrible, awful people that I don't even think I want to watch this show anymore. 

They ARE both awful, but there's only one more episode to go. Might as well stick it out at this point.

On 4/16/2020 at 8:47 AM, tennisgurl said:

God, what is Mia going to do when Pearl grows up? Wants to get married? Is she gonna lock her up on a storage locker because she wants Pearl to only have her? Yeah, I hate when Mia says how Pearl is "hers" like that, its like her idea of motherhood is so possessive and selfish, like you can only love your child if they have some of your DNA, and are just an extension of you and a possession. 

Parents like Mia are the ones who wonder why their children leave for a far-away college or enlist in the Army on their 18th birthday and never return.

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On 4/15/2020 at 1:12 PM, funnygirl said:

Elena was cutting Izzy out of the family Christmas photo because Izzy covertly gave the middle finger. 

That middle finger that wasn't caught by the photog reminded me of the Seinfeld episode with Elaine's "nip slip."

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6 hours ago, preeya said:

That middle finger that wasn't caught by the photog reminded me of the Seinfeld episode with Elaine's "nip slip."

Or Becky Conner getting suspended from school for giving the bird in a class photo. Or Beaver Cleaver making a funny face in a yearbook photo.

 

 

Edited by QQQQ
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On 4/17/2020 at 2:16 PM, Maysie said:

But that bitch actively cut her child out of the photographs and was actually going to mail the family Christmas card with one member literally sliced out of it! What kind of message does that send to the eliminated child, the rest of the family, and everyone who receives it?

Elena is a vindictive bitch, but I don't think she ever intended to send out that Christmas card. It was clear that she couldn't remove every trace of Izzy from the photo (her skirt was still visible in front of Trip) so there was no plausible way to make up an excuse (like "Izzy was sooo sick the day we took our photos and we just couldn't reschedule the photographer so we had to take the pictures without her").

But the bigger issue is that Elena is obsessed with her image and what people think of her. She has repeatedly said that she wanted people to know the truth about Mia's involvement in Bebe's custody battle so that people won't be mad at her (Elena) or blame her for what happened so her image is important to her. Someone like Elena would never actually send a Christmas card with her youngest kid missing because it would make her look like a less than perfect mother.

She knew she couldn't mail those pictures out with Izzy giving the finger so she was using her paper cutter to get out some of her anger at Izzy by literally cutting out what was making her angry (my mom rage cleans so seeing Elena going to town with her paper cutter was not at all surprising to me). It was a mean and petty thing to do but much less mean and petty than actually mailing those pictures with Izzy cut out.

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I have lots of thoughts. 

This show has set up this whole Elena vs. Mia dynamic. What's interesting to me is that as much as I hate Elena's actions this episode (telling Pearl the truth, telling Izzy that it's hard to be her mother) and her passive aggressive racist comments ("you didn't fill a quota"), I at least don't hate to see her on my screen. She seems to be a fully-realized, 3-dimensional character. I've been trying to figure out my feelings for Elena vs. Mia and why they're different. Why when they both do terrible things, I somehow hate Mia more than Elena. I think I've finally figured it out: As much as I don't like Elena as a person, I at least *understand* her. I think credit goes to Reese's acting. There's a nuance to her performance. She's not playing every scene the same way, and I see the moments where she is genuinely apologetic and realizes she's overstepped.

It's the opposite for me with Mia. Mia thinks she has done NOTHING wrong! She thinks she was right to keep Pearl away from her biological father. She thinks it's fine to live out of a run-down car while sitting on a photo worth $400,000! And when she does sell the photo, it's on behalf of a person she's known for 3 months instead of her own damn daughter! Then, in the bedroom scene, she has the nerve to cop an attitude with Pearl and tell her, "Oh, so what I gave you wasn't good enough?" No! It wasn't! I felt such a cathartic release when Pearl yelled at her to get out of her room. Finally, Kerry Washington is playing her with such a smug, morally superior attitude. This is the first episode where I saw something else on her face other than smugness and sneering, and it's because Elena finally took her down a peg. I also don't understand why she is so angry. I have *no* sympathy for Mia. I wonder if my feelings would be different if she were played by a different actor.

Also, as much as Izzy hates Elena, Izzy has always had a roof over her head. She has everything she's ever needed. When I look at Izzy's life versus Pearl's, I find it hard to have a lot of sympathy for Izzy. The whole Christmas card debacle is a prime example. Yes, Elena could've just let Izzy wear the white shoes. However, Elena (and Bill) is the one paying for the photographer, the printing, the postage, etc... If *she* is paying for it, then she has every right to tell Izzy to "put on the fucking [tartan] keds." My aunt and uncle and their kids take pictures for a Christmas card every year, and you can bet that their outfits are chosen and approved by my aunt and uncle. You know why? Cause they are the parents, and they are the ones paying for the card/picture. I bet you Pearl would love to take a yearly Christmas picture in front of a warm fireplace in a nice house. 

This episode showed how Joshua Jackson has been criminally underused on this show. He was great this episode. I particularly loved his, "Sit. Down." moment. 

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7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Elena is a vindictive bitch, but I don't think she ever intended to send out that Christmas card. It was clear that she couldn't remove every trace of Izzy from the photo (her skirt was still visible in front of Trip) so there was no plausible way to make up an excuse (like "Izzy was sooo sick the day we took our photos and we just couldn't reschedule the photographer so we had to take the pictures without her").

I think that is probably true, which makes her expression of anger and frustration somewhat more palatable. I think sweeping the cut out Izzy into the drawer, where someone (Izzy) was bound to find them, was a passive aggressive act. She could have thrown that stuff in the trash, never to be found, but she left it in the drawer for someone to find.

I also think it's telling that it took Mr. Richardson to actually see the transgression, and it says so much about Elena that it's all about the surface. She was so focused on tartan and keds, etc., that as soon as it fit into her world view, she quit looking - she didn't really see the photograph or the people in it. Her husband saw it pretty quickly and had to point it out to her. It demonstrates her superficiality - the right look was all she wanted - proper facial expressions and clothing (this was the second sitting because she didn't like the facial expressions from the first shoot) - so it met her criteria for a successful Christmas card to show how perfect they are.

There's so much discussion about what makes a "good" parent. I don't think the fact that Mia hid the potential pool of money from Pearl makes her a bad parent. I don't have a problem with them hitting thrift shops or even pulling stuff off the curb to re-use in their apartment of the month (I live somewhere that people regularly put stuff out on the curb specifically to be re-homed elsewhere; it's just part of the culture here). I do have a problem with living a lifestyle that requires you to sleep in a car if you don't have to, so that's my problem with Mia and her income choices. Elena seems to be a fine parent to Moody and Trip; I think she's a meh parent to Lexie (it feels a bit like she's living vicariously through Lexie) and I think she's a shitty parent to Izzy.

As for May Ling, I think the McCulloughs will undoubtedly provide a more prosperous life where she will want and need for nothing, but given Mrs. McCullough's child-bearing challenges and now the custody battle, I'd be concerned that she becomes that parent who hovers and helicopters. I've got friends who do that and I don't think it's helpful in raising a self-sufficient human (co-sleeping a long time, never saying no and always saying yes because they want their child to "know how to be assertive" - it's terrifying to consider how dependent people like that make their children). I'd have a hard time turning May Ling over to Bebe simply because I don't have a sense that she's in a position to provide stability for the baby, but it wouldn't be an easy choice.

 

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